#Soylent | Logs for 2014-04-30

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[00:00:14] Blackmoore is now known as Blackmoore|AFD
[00:00:23] <Blackmoore|AFD> gnite all
[00:09:20] <arti> g'nite
[00:09:26] * arti tucks Blackmoore in
[00:09:34] <arti> bedbugs, bites etc.
[00:30:11] -!- mechanicjay has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[00:30:31] <NCommander> can someone hit me plz :-/
[00:30:33] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Smartphone Sensors Leave Trackable Fingerprints - http://sylnt.us - why-is-everything-identifying-unique-user-data?
[00:32:56] * arti rear ends NCommander
[00:33:31] <arti> yo dawg, i heard you liked talking to insurance companies
[00:35:18] * NCommander lights arti on fire
[00:35:33] * arti sizzles and rotates
[00:36:18] <arti> maybe you can ciri can talk it out?
[00:36:22] * arti snickers
[00:37:18] <arti> how's it going?
[00:41:47] <NCommander> arti, not well
[00:41:56] * NCommander notes he got nowhere w/ his apartment hunt today
[00:42:04] <arti> life isn't so bad on a full stomach
[00:42:13] * arti recommends something awesome
[00:42:33] <arti> the trick to apartment hunting, is to have the right bait and traps
[00:42:55] <arti> then, once you capture one, you close in for the kill
[00:44:30] <NCommander> ....
[00:47:16] <arti> what's your favorite language to get stuff done in?
[00:47:53] <NCommander> arti, english :-)
[00:48:30] <arti> okay, so when you apartment hunt, use english for best results
[00:48:31] * arti hides
[00:49:30] <arti> oh dude! you might like this: www.universe-edge.com
[00:52:06] * NCommander throws arti out a window
[00:59:59] * arti portals and lands on his feet
[01:04:50] * NCommander coats the floor with blue paint
[01:04:57] * NCommander throws arti out another portal
[01:05:37] <chromas> If you want him to crash, throw him through a windows me
[01:05:48] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[01:05:53] <arti> if you want to fuck with chromas, just pee all over the toilet seat
[01:06:20] * chromas chromas always checks the toilet for superglue and plastic wrap
[01:06:55] <arti> an effective way to screw with a roomie is to use a spray bottle to disperse it on the ceiling.
[01:07:19] <chromas> glue?
[01:07:23] <chromas> or pee?
[01:07:30] <arti> fluids in general
[01:08:28] <arti> greetings MrBluze, chromas
[01:08:39] <arti> ncommander and i were just bonding
[01:09:13] <MrBluze> hi arti
[01:09:22] <MrBluze> superglue?
[01:09:33] <MrBluze> that's good for quick bonding, though epoxy resin is my favorite
[01:09:41] <chromas> hi arti, MrBluze, NCommander, juggler
[01:09:44] <arti> my favorite is contracts
[01:09:53] <chromas> lol
[01:10:17] <arti> :D
[01:10:24] * NCommander swears repeatively
[01:10:26] <MrBluze> hi chromas
[01:10:34] * arti uses verbal abuse to cement the bond
[01:10:35] <MrBluze> hi NCommander
[01:10:48] <MrBluze> swearing is healthy .. sort of i think i dunno actually
[01:11:24] <chromas> marriage + divorse will keep things sticky
[01:11:27] -!- willyg_cos [willyg_cos!~joeuser@06-377-63-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #Soylent
[01:11:30] <arti> its hot here, 35 and windy
[01:11:43] <arti> chromas: also coitus.
[01:17:45] -!- willyg_cos [willyg_cos!~joeuser@06-377-63-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has parted #Soylent
[01:18:01] <arti> aaaaaand it's gone.
[01:18:17] <NCommander> hey MrBluze
[01:18:23] <NCommander> MrBluze, the apartment hunt continues
[01:19:27] <NCommander> Possibly got one that will be perfect
[01:19:41] <MrBluze> oh okay
[01:19:53] <MrBluze> if u have somewhere u can call home that helps a lot
[01:20:00] <arti> that's the job of the door mat
[01:27:34] -!- Anon3 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[01:31:16] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - If You Throw a Gecko at Teflon, Will He Stick? - http://sylnt.us - remember-kids-do-not-throw-mr-gecko-too-hard
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[02:20:44] <michealpwalls> Hi
[02:21:03] -!- willyg_cos [willyg_cos!~joeuser@06-377-63-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #Soylent
[02:21:34] <SpallsHurgenson> Privet!
[02:21:57] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Site Maintence Tonight: 04:00 UTC - http://sylnt.us - database-migration-ftw
[02:22:45] <michealpwalls> How is everybody?
[02:24:23] <SpallsHurgenson> Хорошо.
[02:24:31] <michealpwalls> I don't get it hehe
[02:25:00] <SpallsHurgenson> ya imeyu v vidu russkiy!
[02:26:00] <SpallsHurgenson> (Russian, for those of you unable to use translation sofware :)
[02:26:37] -!- hka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:26:52] <SpallsHurgenson> it's one of the side effects of eating borscht for dinner :)
[02:27:16] -!- hka [hka!~hka@46.38.wu.gq] has joined #Soylent
[02:32:11] <michealpwalls> hehe!
[02:32:18] * arti o.o
[02:32:32] <michealpwalls> The last one I would have translated, but the one single-words just left me puzzled haha
[02:34:26] <michealpwalls> ... That was odd
[02:34:27] -!- willyg_cos [willyg_cos!~joeuser@06-377-63-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has parted #Soylent
[02:34:34] <SpallsHurgenson> I was saying "hello", "I am fine" and "I'm speaking Russian" :)
[02:34:46] <michealpwalls> Looked like I was logged in as NCommander for a second there on soylentnews.org :/
[02:35:04] <SpallsHurgenson> oooh, ultimate power!
[02:35:06] <NCommander> michealpwalls, it happens when we reload the frontend
[02:35:27] <michealpwalls> That's quirky!
[02:35:51] <NCommander> michealpwalls, the quirk is varnish sees me as the first hit
[02:35:59] <NCommander> So it caches me as a logged in user
[02:36:01] <michealpwalls> Ah, and caches it
[02:36:09] <michealpwalls> Interesting!
[02:36:10] <NCommander> until an AC hits it which replaces the stored page
[02:36:48] <SpallsHurgenson> damn ACs!
[02:37:08] <michealpwalls> "Genemodded Mosquito" amagad!
[02:37:18] <michealpwalls> What a stupid idea, unless the gene "modification" is fucking death!
[02:37:19] <michealpwalls> LOL
[02:38:06] <SpallsHurgenson> hey, show some respect for mosquitos! Don't be so racist!
[02:38:11] <michealpwalls> I wonder what, if any, negative ecological impact wiping out mosquitos would cause
[02:38:13] <SpallsHurgenson> I'll have you know my mother was a mosquito!
[02:38:30] <michealpwalls> haha
[02:39:21] <michealpwalls> Mosquitos are the number 1 killer!
[02:39:57] <SpallsHurgenson> in my mother's case, I'm pretty sure it was her cooking
[02:40:10] <arti> hehe
[02:40:17] <arti> "why does the toaster catch fire?"
[02:40:39] <michealpwalls> haha
[02:41:12] <SpallsHurgenson> why did Rex catch fire?
[02:42:10] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Genemodded Mosquito to be Tested in Brazil - http://sylnt.us - as-long-as-they-cannot-play-futebol
[02:45:34] <michealpwalls> If there was 100 submissions in the queue, would the site read: "Only 100 submissions in the queue" ?
[02:46:09] <NCommander> michealpwalls, it disappears at 20
[02:46:36] <michealpwalls> Jah! Nice :)
[02:51:29] <SpallsHurgenson> may it never disappear, then; may we forever be reminded of our soyly duty
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[02:56:41] * SpallsHurgenson sings "All hail the might soyl-father"
[03:11:35] <michealpwalls> Duplicate records from MySQL.. my bane!
[03:11:50] <michealpwalls> When I join tables
[03:20:13] <michealpwalls> haha, the gene modification *is* death! (hifive)
[03:22:27] <MrBluze> calcium is death
[03:30:29] <SpallsHurgenson> I knew it, cows ARE trying to kill us!
[03:30:48] <MrBluze> well yeah
[03:30:58] <MrBluze> life depends on containing and restraining calcium
[03:33:39] -!- Cyprus has quit []
[03:48:06] <michealpwalls> That's why I drink Milk.
[03:49:47] <MrBluze> better than injecting it
[03:51:56] <MrBluze> or inhaling
[03:52:07] <arti> you buttchug it
[03:52:10] <MrBluze> snorting i have done once when someone told me a joke .. not pleasant
[03:52:19] * arti also does coke
[03:52:25] * arti hates when the ice gets stuck in his nose
[03:54:11] <MrBluze> if you're patient it will melt a bit and then it fits better
[03:56:43] <arti> sounds like something jack frost would say
[04:01:25] -!- Nerdfest has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[04:03:27] <MrBluze> ;)
[04:07:04] <michealpwalls> :O
[04:09:49] <MrBluze> :-
[04:10:53] <michealpwalls> Well, g'night everyone
[04:10:57] -!- michealpwalls has quit [Quit: michealpwalls]
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[04:36:18] <MrBluze> http://en.ria.ru
[04:36:21] -!- Popeidol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[04:37:57] <SpallsHurgenson> can't we all just get along?
[04:38:31] <SpallsHurgenson> let's send some boy-bands to the warzone to see if their music can bring about peace
[04:38:37] <SpallsHurgenson> if it works, well, peace!
[04:38:49] <SpallsHurgenson> if it doesn't, well, no more boy-bands :)
[04:38:52] <SpallsHurgenson> win-win, I say!
[04:39:21] * NCommander needs to write the soylent manifesto
[04:40:10] <SpallsHurgenson> you need to write a license agreement where users agree not to use soylent for the development of nuclear weapons
[04:40:39] <MrBluze> it's better to do whitegood drops
[04:41:10] <MrBluze> give everybody fridges and miele dishwashers and stuff like that
[04:42:37] <SpallsHurgenson> drop them from higher and higher altitudes until they learn to behave, 'cause at first they'll be all like, "oooh, free stereo" but eventually it will be like Thor's hammer :)
[04:43:46] <MrBluze> drop them high enough so they stay in orbit
[04:44:34] <SpallsHurgenson> what, encourage everybody to work together to create a space program to get all the free goodies? You think that will work? :-)
[04:46:18] <NCommander> Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way
[04:46:28] <NCommander> Maybe I need to write the bylaws first, then work backwards from there
[04:50:38] <MrBluze> maybe dont try to do it all in one go
[04:50:44] <MrBluze> write the ideas down as you get them
[04:50:56] <MrBluze> better still discuss it with someone and u will get there faster
[04:51:17] <NCommander> MrBluze, probably
[04:51:27] <NCommander> MrBluze, ugh, I'm not loving the SN bashing on pipedot
[04:51:48] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - High Voltage at the World's Tallest Dam - http://sylnt.us - dam-power-lines-are-important
[04:53:26] <NCommander> !current-uid
[04:53:26] <deadpeas> The current maximum UID is 4262, owned by jsewell
[04:53:30] <NCommander> damn
[04:54:35] <MrBluze> where is the sn bashing
[04:54:43] <SpallsHurgenson> they're moving a 60 ton substation transformer through my town tomorrow; the thing is big as a house.
[04:55:53] <SpallsHurgenson> it's moving on an 18-axel truck, and they used this awesomely massive floating crane to load it.
[04:56:03] * SpallsHurgenson is envious of the big toys
[04:57:50] <NCommander> MrBluze, http://pipedot.org
[04:59:09] <NCommander> ugh
[04:59:19] * NCommander does more code butchering to kill time
[05:00:34] <MrBluze> hmm.. criticisms are mostly valid
[05:00:52] <NCommander> MrBluze, yeah, we've got fixes for a lot of them too
[05:00:57] <MrBluze> yep
[05:01:02] <MrBluze> so it's all good
[05:01:22] <MrBluze> must always be humble enough to see things as they are
[05:01:26] <MrBluze> that's the key to success
[05:01:38] <MrBluze> apart from all the other keys to success
[05:02:18] <MrBluze> pipedot is tidy, clean, crisp, etc.. but it's also sterile, boring, plain and generic
[05:02:51] <MrBluze> i'm not worried about that
[05:03:40] <SpallsHurgenson> more to the point, it has no real audience :-(
[05:03:58] <SpallsHurgenson> too few stories, too few comments. Very sad. I want more slashdot-derivatives
[05:05:02] <MrBluze> they are doing a good job
[05:05:09] <MrBluze> but it's a very very long road from where they are to success
[05:05:25] FoobarBazbot|afk is now known as FoobarBazbot
[05:05:28] <MrBluze> and that super-clean logo is a negative rather than positive imho
[05:05:54] <SpallsHurgenson> I like the super-clean logo :)
[05:05:55] <MrBluze> unless u want to sell bathroom products
[05:06:24] <MrBluze> yeah its nice and profesional
[05:06:53] <MrBluze> but it lacks differentiation
[05:07:09] <MrBluze> just my humble opinion anyway
[05:07:23] <SpallsHurgenson> well, you're wrong :) :) :)
[05:07:41] * SpallsHurgenson is not humble :)
[05:08:07] <MrBluze> SN looks busier, but busier is better for a news site
[05:08:18] <MrBluze> it can be much better but it's good
[05:08:56] <MrBluze> .. a bit like, you don't make a $2 shop look like an up-market boutique store
[05:09:15] <MrBluze> u make it look cluttered and busy so people think it's a jumble stall and feel like they are getting a bargain
[05:09:16] * NCommander *deep sighs*
[05:09:39] <MrBluze> so getting the right balance is the thing
[05:09:45] <NCommander> MrBluze, on the page load thing, we'll have that fixed on the next major release of slashcode
[05:09:55] <NCommander> Loads should be approximately 1-2 seconds
[05:10:02] * chromas offers NCommander some blueberry pie but can't get it to fit into the modem
[05:10:03] <MrBluze> that's good
[05:10:09] <MrBluze> sorting out tidy urls is a good idea
[05:10:14] <NCommander> and the commenting improvements
[05:10:28] <paulej72> chromas: send him a pict instead
[05:10:30] <NCommander> MrBluze, agreed
[05:12:50] * SpallsHurgenson considers SeaMonkey as an alternative to Firefox 29
[05:13:13] -!- pbnjoe [pbnjoe!~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #Soylent
[05:13:15] <arti> we should do a photoshop contest to see what firefox 229 will look like
[05:13:22] <arti> maybe it'll just be one giant button
[05:13:27] <arti> or no buttons, just a tab.
[05:13:38] <MrBluze> lol
[05:14:03] <MrBluze> i have a different layout to what pipedot has, in mind
[05:14:04] <SpallsHurgenson> no menus, no tabs, no buttons, just data-streaming down to you selected by google
[05:14:23] <arti> on behalf of mozilla
[05:14:24] <arti> naturally
[05:14:26] <MrBluze> .. better and different enough to be called our own
[05:18:08] <arti> poutine--
[05:18:08] <deadpeas> karma - poutine: -337
[05:18:08] * NCommander codes on Slash
[05:18:31] * arti watches NCommander code slash
[05:20:32] * SpallsHurgenson notices arti watching NCommander code slash
[05:20:56] * NCommander watches SpallsHurgenson notice arti watching NCommander code slash
[05:21:14] -!- mrcool|afk [mrcool|afk!~mrcoolbp@Soylent/Staff/mrcoolbp] has joined #Soylent
[05:21:14] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mrcool|afk] by juggler
[05:21:18] * MrBluze uploads pictures of NCommander watching SpallsHurgenson noticing arti watching NCommander code slash to facebook
[05:21:25] <arti> haha
[05:21:27] mrcool|afk is now known as mrcoolbp
[05:21:40] * arti does a fancy bow and hat thing towards mrcoolbp
[05:24:00] -!- SpallsHurgenson has quit [Quit: sleepy time again]
[05:25:04] * NCommander likes MrBluze's photo of NCommander watching SpallsHurgenson noticing arti watching NCommander code slash to facebook
[05:25:21] <MrBluze> thanks I photoshopped it a bit
[05:25:35] <NCommander> MrBluze, I think this might make you happy, I'm working on a web based front end to audioguy's voting system
[05:25:45] * MrBluze nods
[05:25:46] <chromas> NCommander++
[05:25:46] <deadpeas> karma - ncommander: 25
[05:25:52] <MrBluze> NCommander++
[05:25:52] <deadpeas> karma - ncommander: 26
[05:25:52] <mrcoolbp> hey guys!
[05:25:57] <MrBluze> hi mrcoolbp
[05:26:06] <mrcoolbp> thanks arti, I was reading a little backlog and emails
[05:26:10] * mrcoolbp still is actually
[05:26:11] <NCommander> MrBluze, we can use the email frontend for staff votes and such, i.e., where fiddly isn't a big issue as much
[05:26:19] <chromas> email-voting--
[05:26:24] <mrcoolbp> hi MrBluze, NCommander
[05:26:25] <chromas> email_voting--
[05:26:25] <deadpeas> karma - email_voting: -1
[05:26:34] <mrcoolbp> "le sigh"
[05:26:39] <MrBluze> yes the staff dont mind fiddly generally .. like the back of a restaurant ;)
[05:26:45] <swiss> bacon++
[05:26:45] <deadpeas> karma - bacon: 224
[05:26:47] <NCommander> MrBluze, ???
[05:27:06] <mrcoolbp> NCommander's never worked in a restaurant = )
[05:27:14] <MrBluze> well.. the front of a restaurant u have all shiny and nice
[05:27:21] <MrBluze> the back is the dead cat, the cockroaches and the fight with the chef
[05:27:28] <NCommander> MrBluze, I haven't?
[05:27:41] <NCommander> er, mrcoolbp
[05:27:48] <arti> well, the eating part shouldn't count as work
[05:27:58] <arti> :D
[05:27:58] * NCommander hasn't actually, but its one of those things I probably should have at some point
[05:28:06] <mrcoolbp> hah I knew it = )
[05:28:28] <arti> it's a fascinating job, "plz tell me about ur menu"
[05:30:23] <MrBluze> well, arti, our special of the day is pea soup in a lemon wine jus mixed with olive peel
[05:30:26] <mrcoolbp> it's made out of paper and has words printed on it
[05:31:02] <arti> mrbluze, the way you do specials is enumerate the menu items, and randomly select one. or take whatever item spoils fast and discount, er, feature those items
[05:31:52] <MrBluze> add 10% to the usual price, then cross it out, and write the usual price next to it
[05:32:01] <MrBluze> that's how u do specials
[05:32:07] <arti> also, you get a bonus status effect
[05:32:13] * arti makes MrBluze's ass yell at the toilet
[05:32:13] <MrBluze> better still, 40%
[05:33:42] <MrBluze> too much curry arti, u need to modify the menu
[05:33:52] <arti> lol
[05:34:01] <arti> curry is awesome
[05:34:10] * arti isn't too fond of indian dishes (i like several though)
[05:34:17] <arti> the japanese have an awesome take on curry
[05:34:21] <arti> thai stuff is pretty cool too
[05:34:23] <arti> "cool"
[05:34:30] <MrBluze> thai is my favorite
[05:34:31] <arti> the fish sauce :O~
[05:35:42] <MrBluze> yep and the fresh ginger, the coconut and the lemongrass
[05:36:42] <arti> ginga.
[05:38:02] <MrBluze> yep
[05:43:33] <mrcoolbp> I gotta get off to bed, long day
[05:43:47] <mrcoolbp> g'night guys
[05:44:12] mrcoolbp is now known as mrcool|zzz
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[05:50:32] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Notes by Hand Better for Long-Term Comprehension - http://sylnt.us - taking-notes-on-taking-notes
[05:51:39] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|away
[06:10:49] NCommander changed topic of #Soylent to: Maintence in progress | LIVE FREE OR DIE! | https://soylentnews.org | Wiki: http://sylnt.us | Code: http://sylnt.us | Got bugs? http://sylnt.us | Who's who? http://sylnt.us | Get Involved: http://sylnt.us | Staff discussions in #staff are now open for all, always.
[06:16:18] <NCommander> ugh
[06:16:24] <NCommander> really really hate mysql
[06:16:27] <NCommander> */just saying*
[06:29:31] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~b4c880f7@180.200.jji.ihy] has joined #Soylent
[06:29:45] <prospectacle> hey hey
[06:30:29] * NCommander fires the bring up script
[06:31:07] <NCommander> hey prospectacle
[06:31:11] NCommander changed topic of #Soylent to: LIVE FREE OR DIE! | https://soylentnews.org | Wiki: http://sylnt.us | Code: http://sylnt.us | Got bugs? http://sylnt.us | Who's who? http://sylnt.us | Get Involved: http://sylnt.us | Staff discussions in #staff are now open for all, always.
[06:31:28] <prospectacle> That was a quick turnaround
[06:31:51] <prospectacle> Maybe the varnish error message should be changed to "We're doing this kind of maintenance so that's probably the reason..." each time, just in case.
[06:32:30] <NCommander> prospectacle, probably
[06:32:46] <NCommander> prospectacle, I had to fail us over to a new DB master, which is a very manual process ATM due to limitations in the old version of mysql
[06:33:02] <prospectacle> Well, hardly any down time. So nice work. How's new hampshire?
[06:33:41] <NCommander> prospectacle, not bad, the great apartment hunt is under way
[06:34:21] <prospectacle> Sounds like not much fun. Hope you're taking a bit of time each day to enjoy your new surroundings as well, drink at the local bars with a locally bought book, etc
[06:34:29] <NCommander> prospectacle, I've been here a lot
[06:34:38] * NCommander now takes the leap of face and powers down helium
[06:34:42] <prospectacle> oh ok
[06:35:13] <NCommander> 39 days uptime :-/
[06:35:16] <NCommander> ah well
[06:35:30] <NCommander> Real test of everythings failover
[06:35:37] <NCommander> (mysql failover done manually but beyond that)
[06:35:52] <prospectacle> records were made to be broken. next time: 42!
[06:36:54] <NCommander> prospectacle, :-)
[06:37:40] <NCommander> Ok, it *is* working
[06:37:43] <NCommander> just really slowly
[06:37:53] <NCommander> kerberos failover is very slow
[06:38:36] <prospectacle> Seems fine to me
[06:39:03] <NCommander> prospectacle, for admin functions, the site seems fine
[06:39:11] <NCommander> xlefay, thoughts on putting a lower timeout on DNS stuff in resolv.conf?
[06:39:43] <NCommander> ok, helium is going into upgrade mode
[06:41:00] <prospectacle> Seems like a lot of work behind the scenes. I guess you want to be prepared to handle 100,000 registered users rather than wait until there are that many
[06:41:21] <prospectacle> best to fix the roof when the sun is shining and all that
[06:42:07] <prospectacle> I'm --> <--- this close to releasing my own little website, got my boss to sign away any i.p. claims and everything. Wish it was just done already but I want it to work when people use it.
[06:43:19] <NCommander> prospectacle, envy
[06:43:24] <prospectacle> Nothing like this place though, it will be on shared hosting.
[06:44:16] <prospectacle> But I figure I gotta start somewhere. If anyone visits it maybe I'll upgrade
[06:50:36] <swiss> debatin buying my gf a chromebook, as she's good at borking most computers
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[06:51:22] <prospectacle> are they cheap?
[06:51:27] <swiss> under $300
[06:51:34] <prospectacle> have you used one?
[06:51:37] <swiss> $250/270, depending on the color i get
[06:51:58] <swiss> i've used one, and it didn't do everything I wanted it to. But she's now only using her phone because she's borked up her computers
[06:52:27] <prospectacle> borked up how?
[06:52:43] <prospectacle> I mean did she download a virus or spill wine on it?
[06:54:37] <prospectacle> I guess if they're quick, then $300 is cheap, even if it's only the web
[06:54:54] <prospectacle> if they're not quick, get a $300 tablet you can put apps on, and use the web.
[06:54:59] * prospectacle has spoken
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[06:59:27] <swiss> they're quick for what they do
[06:59:59] <MrBluze> can u run linux on 'em?
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[07:00:07] <MrBluze> and print from 'em
[07:00:11] <swiss> print: yes
[07:00:29] <swiss> technically, you could run linux (they come unlocked by default iirc, and you can get shell on them), but you wouldn't want to
[07:00:30] <prospectacle> I haven't used one. In theory I'm against web-only devices, but I guess if they do what she wants and they're cheap then why not. If you can afford it then don't even thnk about it. If it's gonna hurt slightly to spend the money, think hard
[07:01:05] <prospectacle> Plenty of cheap android tablets out there
[07:01:47] <MrBluze> i just want something cheap that i can get the kids to run linux on
[07:02:01] <prospectacle> http://www.officeworks.com.au
[07:02:54] <prospectacle> I am surprised at how cheap even name-brand tablets are these days.
[07:03:01] <prospectacle> Thanks apple, for making everyone make tablets
[07:03:04] <MrBluze> a laptop is better tho
[07:03:11] <MrBluze> i want em to learn programming
[07:03:18] <MrBluze> notebook or some such
[07:03:21] <prospectacle> true
[07:03:29] <prospectacle> or a hybrid/detachable
[07:03:35] <MrBluze> yeah
[07:03:46] <MrBluze> a keyboard at and least 1 usb port is the thing
[07:03:52] <MrBluze> so u can print or backup to an external drive
[07:04:05] <MrBluze> or use a controller of some kind :)
[07:04:59] <prospectacle> if it's to teach programming get a dead cheap one. They'll learn the value of not wasting cycles.
[07:05:11] <MrBluze> indeed
[07:07:12] <MrBluze> at the moment i hvae an old laptop for them
[07:07:22] <MrBluze> but something with a bit of battery life off the wall is nice
[07:07:40] <prospectacle> yeah, might be worth looking at a tablet with a keyboard.
[07:07:50] * MrBluze nods
[07:07:53] <prospectacle> can't beat em for battery life
[07:11:43] <prospectacle> idea for a tv show: presidents. Every 10 episode (10 hr) season is a dramatisation of two terms of u.s. presidency, starting at the start. If the show's any good, you can keep making it forever.
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[07:12:53] <prospectacle> Oh wait no it would catch up wouldn't it.
[07:13:01] <prospectacle> After like 20 years.
[07:13:02] <MrBluze> well
[07:13:18] <MrBluze> u could just make it 10 episodes per president
[07:13:40] <MrBluze> and if u had a problem with catching up too fast u just.. uhh.. make sure u get a lot of presidents in quick succession.. mmhmm
[07:13:49] <prospectacle> Yeah I guess so, but weren't some of them only a few weeks?
[07:13:55] <MrBluze> yeah
[07:14:00] <prospectacle> Although I suppose those times would have been more tumultuous as well
[07:14:02] <MrBluze> and history repeats itself too doesnt it
[07:14:07] <MrBluze> right
[07:14:25] <MrBluze> hollywood is expert at drawing out a 24 hour period into months.. look at days of our lives as an example
[07:14:35] * NCommander glares at the migration progress bar not moving
[07:14:36] <prospectacle> am a big fan of west-wing so was was just reading about whether any actual presidents came from new hampshire,
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[07:14:58] <FoobarBazbot> about halfway through, you can do the spinoff thing, starting with Jeff Davis
[07:15:01] <prospectacle> One did (franklin pierce) , who I'd never heard of, but sounded interesting.
[07:15:35] <prospectacle> foobar, yeah it would be like game of thrones with multiple kings vying for legitimacy
[07:15:36] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Nose Influences Perception of Attractiveness - http://sylnt.us - who-nose-why?
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[07:15:54] <FoobarBazbot> which gets cancelled due to poor ratings partway through the first season
[07:16:15] <prospectacle> I dunno, if you allow the violence and swearing and corruption and sex and war to be shown, people will watch
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[07:16:28] <FoobarBazbot> "industry insiders fingered poor ratings in the damnyankee demographic"
[07:16:33] <MrBluze> as long as u dont tell the truth it will all be fine
[07:16:45] <prospectacle> if fox makes it you're in trouble. If it's hbo you'll be right.
[07:17:09] <FoobarBazbot> I meant the spinoff, because of the whole outcome-of-the-civil-war issue.
[07:18:11] <prospectacle> oh, yeah. people might get sensitive being reminded they lost a war.
[07:18:21] <arti> yeah, we all know the stupids are winning
[07:18:23] <prospectacle> But they did
[07:18:41] <arti> they're out breeding the smarts
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[07:20:36] <MrBluze> we have laws against smart people breeding
[07:20:52] <MrBluze> like giving smart people better access to medical services
[07:21:16] <prospectacle> Yes but at least a lot of the richest people in the world are nerds now. That wasn't the case before. Maybe that will increase the reproductive appeal of breeding with a nerd. You never know.
[07:21:17] <MrBluze> and trapping them in debt so the prospective mother has no time nor money to have a family
[07:21:28] <arti> they already have their own cars
[07:21:37] <arti> smart cars.
[07:21:43] <arti> tvs too.
[07:21:57] <MrBluze> but we give the dumbs every advantage for breeding .. lots of time, welfare payments, no access to medical care
[07:22:15] <arti> canada has a program to deal with those, too
[07:22:18] <MrBluze> even pay them to have more kids
[07:22:18] <arti> winter
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[07:23:10] <MrBluze> winter is good
[07:23:16] <MrBluze> oh.. the other thing that goes against smarts is education
[07:23:22] <MrBluze> and indoctrination
[07:23:29] <MrBluze> dumb ppl are harder to do that to
[07:24:06] <prospectacle> MrBluze, well you need lots of dumb people to buy whatever you're selling. Then you can marry a smart person and have smart babies. It's the morlocks and the eloi
[07:24:07] <MrBluze> u cant convince dumb people that having kids is a bad idea.. but smart ppl fall for it hook line and sinker
[07:24:16] <arti> well they don't call them thick skulled for nothing
[07:24:39] <arti> what else are you going to eat when zombies come?
[07:25:02] <MrBluze> actually, given the rising productivity, we should all be working half as hard as before for the same living standar
[07:25:06] <arti> other mammals do it
[07:25:08] <MrBluze> but we are not... so the smarts are fools
[07:25:29] <arti> just keep inflating that currency
[07:25:34] <prospectacle> mrbluze, only if they work hard
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[07:25:53] <arti> http://www.youtube.com
[07:26:32] <MrBluze> smarts have fallen for the trap of 'u can choose between red and blue'
[07:26:35] * prospectacle would like to put on record he was joking about the morlocks and the eloi, although probably some people see it that way
[07:26:41] <chromas_no_server> You have something against money and electrolytes?
[07:26:55] <arti> how many billions?
[07:27:14] <chromas_no_server> a lot
[07:27:18] <prospectacle> chromas, how could I? electrolytes are what we crave
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[07:27:25] <MrBluze> lol prospectacle
[07:27:44] <arti> water, like from the toilet?
[07:28:28] <MrBluze> mmm.. toilet water
[07:28:39] <MrBluze> filtered by alimentary tracts and nephrons
[07:28:56] <prospectacle> the best filters nature has to offer
[07:29:11] <MrBluze> no physiologist is cleverer than a nephron
[07:29:39] <arti> nephron sounds like some robotic overlord nephew, is this what they're called on cybertron?
[07:31:04] <prospectacle> no it's that singer
[07:31:06] <prospectacle> laura nephron
[07:32:05] <prospectacle> oh wait no it's nora ephron and she's a screenwriter
[07:32:39] <chromas_no_server> Don't google it
[07:32:43] <chromas_no_server> it's a goatse
[07:32:52] <arti> prospectacle: i have hardware that does that
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[07:33:23] <prospectacle> arti, screenwrites?
[07:33:33] <MrBluze> she gets a big screen
[07:33:35] <MrBluze> and pees on it
[07:33:46] <prospectacle> chromas that's not a very nice way to talk about the author of when harry met sally
[07:33:48] <arti> [ Interest Intensifies ]
[07:33:48] <MrBluze> perfect for the gugenheim museum
[07:34:10] <chromas_no_server> Well then it shouldn't've shown her portrait
[07:35:12] * prospectacle has not previously come across as "A goatse" as a way to insult someone's appearance. Very creative
[07:35:31] <arti> sounds like something a bot would say
[07:35:38] <chromas_no_server> Hey, I was nice enough not use append the tld
[07:35:40] <arti> My you're looking A goatse today"
[07:36:01] <MrBluze> why spank you
[07:36:07] <prospectacle> lol
[07:36:09] <MrBluze> spank you very much
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[07:37:07] <prospectacle> wow nephrons look complicated
[07:38:10] <MrBluze> clever little things they are
[07:38:23] <prospectacle> Must be intelligent design. They can't have arised by chance, that's like someone writing the complete works of rorschach with only a paintball gun.
[07:39:05] <FoobarBazbot> s/(looks?) +[^ ]+/\1 a goatse/
[07:39:14] <MrBluze> or finding a volkswagen door in the desert on mars
[07:39:37] <prospectacle> yeah, or that face
[07:39:49] <MrBluze> the face in the pancake?
[07:40:04] <prospectacle> the one on mars
[07:40:26] <FoobarBazbot_> the pancake on mars
[07:40:43] <prospectacle> http://en.wikipedia.org
[07:40:48] <swiss> prospectacle: i pulled the trigger, she's getting a chromebook this weekend
[07:41:12] <prospectacle> yes, sorry. I should be more specific. The face on the pancake on mars, with irreducably complex maple syrup
[07:41:14] <swiss> prospectacle: and the tablet vs laptop issue... sometimes it's just nice to have a real keyboard and a computer designed to be used with it. Like word processing.
[07:41:32] <swiss> she already has a galaxy note 2, so she basically has a mini tablet
[07:41:33] <prospectacle> swiss, it will probably be great. In any case you'll know for next time.
[07:41:47] <swiss> yeah, i also bought it from amazon
[07:41:54] <swiss> and amazon has a baller return policy
[07:46:16] <MrBluze> sounds like the US govt wants to introduce an ID system for the internet
[07:46:31] <arti> we'll call it the passport :D!
[07:46:49] <MrBluze> 'Real ID'
[07:46:50] <arti> just imagine! single sigon :O
[07:47:42] <MrBluze> it'll make using TOR so much easier
[07:50:02] <MrBluze> new laws will give certain websites ability to buy preferential internet speeds from ISP's
[07:50:24] <MrBluze> ie: will make non-chosen sites too slow to be viable
[07:50:35] <arti> will they too not learn from disneyland!?
[07:51:33] <prospectacle> single sign on is a hard problems
[07:51:44] <arti> why is why we need goverment
[07:51:48] <arti> government
[07:51:51] <arti> huurrr
[07:52:31] <prospectacle> nice idea. Great idea. But let's see it work reliably and be easy to mitigate when someone's id is stolen.
[07:52:48] <prospectacle> also lets not have the u.s. do it. They can't be trusted.
[07:52:50] <prospectacle> but who can?
[07:53:03] <MrBluze> we could call ourselves silentnews
[07:53:06] <arti> the UN!
[07:53:10] <prospectacle> lol
[07:53:11] <MrBluze> nothing to see here, move along
[07:53:46] <MrBluze> we dont know who you are, so we are not allowed to give you any information, thank you for playing the interwebs
[07:53:49] <prospectacle> yes, probably the u.n., in 50 or 60 years when they get their act together and most of the biggest countries are democracies
[07:54:15] <prospectacle> or the e.u., if they survive, in perhaps 30 or 40 years
[07:54:33] <MrBluze> there shouldn't be rules
[07:54:41] <prospectacle> or oceania, which i shall invent in the next 10 years or so
[07:54:58] <MrBluze> but what happens when oceania fights eurasia
[07:55:25] <prospectacle> well, that can't be helped, but maybe it can be a nice peaceful economic war
[07:55:49] <prospectacle> blood is so expensive these days. best not to spend any
[07:56:41] <MrBluze> but u need explosions
[07:56:44] <MrBluze> people might get ideas
[07:56:53] <arti> michael bay?
[07:57:11] <MrBluze> like they might come back from a holiday and say, hey guys they think they are at war with amerika and not us .. etc
[07:57:14] <arti> maybe we can breed him with jj abrams
[07:57:46] <prospectacle> hmm, sounds complicated, but I guess nothing is easy that's worth doing.
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[07:59:50] <prospectacle> so is michael bay already in eurasia or do we wait till jj abrahms comes back from holiday?
[08:00:04] <prospectacle> it's important we get the details right. we may only have one shot at this
[08:03:12] <MrBluze> we need a winston
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[08:07:14] <prospectacle> Well you know what they say. Whoever controls the winston, controls the future
[08:08:21] <arti> wasn't that spice?
[08:10:57] <MrBluze> careful with that winston
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[08:19:20] <NCommander> I probably should sleep
[08:20:15] <swiss> me too
[08:20:22] <prospectacle> ncommander: Always a good idea. Nice work on the rollover, etc.
[08:20:23] <swiss> i can't wait for the chromebook to come now
[08:20:43] <prospectacle> how long do they normally take wherever you are swiss?
[08:20:51] <prospectacle> I sympathise, I hate waiting for things I've already bought.
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[08:23:40] <prospectacle> You pay for it and suddenly amazon are holding something you own. Who are they to confiscate your property like that. Give it back.
[08:24:07] <swiss> prospectacle: a day or two
[08:24:18] <swiss> i nearly got same day delivery a few weeks ago
[08:25:48] <prospectacle> That's pretty sweet. I imagine same-day will be the norm soon. But not soon enough!
[08:26:19] <swiss> southern california has its perks
[08:27:35] <swiss> i just changed it to one day shipping (though it'd come about that fast anyway) just to speed it up
[08:27:40] <swiss> only $8 on my $300 order
[08:38:26] <NCommander> ugh
[08:38:27] <NCommander> crap broke
[08:38:28] <NCommander> yay
[08:39:13] <prospectacle> the word "afterwards" is all on the left hand side of the keyboard. You're welcome.
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[08:40:48] <SoyCow8838> so the AC post do not work?
[08:42:09] <NCommander> SoyCow8838, had a slashd issue
[08:42:15] <NCommander> which is why the comment counts are busted
[08:42:52] <NCommander> SoyCow8838, should be fixed now
[08:43:04] <NCommander> (slight lag for ACs before the site updates)
[08:44:55] <SoyCow8838> my rants are useless if i cant be some AC
[08:46:38] <SoyCow8838> still not working :(
[08:46:45] <NCommander> SoyCow8838, ugh, investigating
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[08:48:34] <NCommander> SoyCow8838, http://soylentnews.org
[08:48:36] <NCommander> works just fine
[08:49:20] <NCommander> SoyCow8838, how is it broken for you?
[08:50:38] <SoyCow8838> http://soylentnews.org
[08:50:53] <SoyCow8838> it works now... i dont know... maybe i didnt refresh or something
[08:52:11] <SoyCow8838> kinda of useless comment... my ./ days still haunt me
[08:53:37] <NCommander> SoyCow8838, not a problem
[08:53:51] <NCommander> SoyCow8838, we're having some issues due to Linode migration that got stuck so one of the backend servers is being flakely
[08:55:23] <SoyCow8838> you are migrating to linode or from linode
[08:55:27] <SoyCow8838> ?
[08:56:49] <MrBluze> probably yes
[08:57:05] <MrBluze> like moving a piano from one room to another
[08:57:12] <MrBluze> but each room is on opposite sides of the globe
[08:57:49] <FoobarBazbot_> Best solution is to drill a hole straight through, then, and let gravity do the work.
[08:58:03] <SoyCow8838> so a website is like a piano?
[08:58:32] <SoyCow8838> kites are great to move furniture long distances as well
[09:11:47] <MrBluze> its more like an organ with series of tubes
[09:11:49] <MrBluze> but otherwise yes
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[10:41:11] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Ex-Googler Reveals Distrurbing Trade Practices - http://sylnt.us - Don't-be^H^H^H^H^H^H-Evil
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[11:38:16] <MrBluze> hi crutchy
[11:38:56] <crutchy> hi mrbluze. how you been?
[11:39:03] <MrBluze> i been good, and u?
[11:39:16] <crutchy> i'm ok
[11:39:34] <MrBluze> wacha binnupto?
[11:40:11] <crutchy> just work, visiting mum in the horsepiddle, bit of code, kiddies and stuff
[11:40:17] <crutchy> you?
[11:43:30] <MrBluze> oh
[11:43:37] <MrBluze> i did a bit of camping and mountaineering etc
[11:43:42] <crutchy> ooh
[11:43:51] <crutchy> where abouts?
[11:43:54] <MrBluze> and then paperwork and stuff
[11:44:08] <crutchy> it follows you :-P
[11:44:23] <MrBluze> oh here and there ;)
[11:44:42] <MrBluze> clears the head to disappear in the wilderness for a bit
[11:44:44] <MrBluze> works wonders
[11:45:06] <crutchy> the prom and alpine nat park are awesome
[11:45:17] <MrBluze> they are
[11:45:19] <crutchy> i prolly already mentiioned that
[11:45:23] <crutchy> love those spots
[11:45:28] <MrBluze> especially the walk from oberon to sealer's cove
[11:45:32] <crutchy> well, large spots :-P
[11:45:40] <crutchy> yeah done that one a couple
[11:45:45] <crutchy> once in the rain :-P
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[11:48:34] <MrBluze> my interent sucks
[11:48:50] <MrBluze> <crutchy> once in the rain :-P
[11:49:01] <MrBluze> when i was really fit i ran most of that walk
[11:49:20] <MrBluze> except the bits you cant run like the rainforesty slippery parts
[11:52:18] <crutchy> i tripped over on the boardwalk in the rain with a pack on
[11:52:29] <crutchy> even the chickenwire doesn't help
[11:53:14] <crutchy> it was when i was a young bloke though... maybe 12 or 13 or something
[11:59:52] * MrBluze kicks his internet in the nuts
[12:00:21] <chromas> Internut
[12:00:30] <chromas> Bust it
[12:00:44] * MrBluze gets his mother in law to bust the internuts
[12:01:21] <chromas> Gets?
[12:01:24] <chromas> Or puts up with?
[12:02:08] <MrBluze> well she can do it like no one else can
[12:08:21] -!- crutchy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[12:08:50] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~crutchy@724-640-25-593.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[12:13:21] <MrBluze> interesting tit-bit, banks take out life insurance on their staff which is payable to the banks themselves
[12:15:20] <MrBluze> .. totalling across the world to many hundreds of billions of dollars in insurance cover
[12:18:30] <crutchy> well i guess if they're willing to pay the premium
[12:19:06] <MrBluze> yeah
[12:19:31] <crutchy> seems like a waste cos they pay for nothing if an employee quits before death
[12:20:11] <crutchy> insurance companies must love it though
[12:20:34] <MrBluze> http://dilbert.com
[12:21:59] <MrBluze> when an employee is worth more dead than alive
[12:22:50] <crutchy> i dunno. employees are either valued or axed
[12:23:03] <crutchy> companies don't like keeping deadwood
[12:23:10] <crutchy> governments on the other hand...
[12:23:15] <MrBluze> indeed
[12:23:26] <MrBluze> governments are too busy following procedure
[12:23:30] <crutchy> lol
[12:23:53] <crutchy> i guess we do need governments though, as much as they blunder and fuck up
[12:23:56] <crutchy> not always
[12:24:00] <crutchy> but often
[12:24:22] <MrBluze> we just need governments to set standards and make laws
[12:24:41] <crutchy> not to mention keep the lobbyists happy :-P
[12:24:43] <MrBluze> and let everyone else work out how best to run things
[12:24:55] <MrBluze> and we just need a system that prevents monopolies
[12:25:18] <MrBluze> well.. except if everybody benefits - in which case, so what
[12:25:20] <crutchy> except the game. it should be allowed
[12:25:30] <MrBluze> yeah the game of course
[12:25:35] <crutchy> i like monopoly, even though i suck at it
[12:25:45] <MrBluze> the game doesnt have a stock market
[12:25:49] <MrBluze> so it's fairer than real life
[12:26:13] <crutchy> dunno. i don't much follow the stock market
[12:26:13] <MrBluze> nor does it have unlimited lines of credit etc
[12:26:24] <crutchy> yeah debt is bad
[12:26:34] <crutchy> unfortunately money = debt
[12:26:35] <MrBluze> lol or life insurance that u can collect if you knock off your employees
[12:26:42] <crutchy> haha
[12:27:08] <MrBluze> banks would be better at getting away with it than spouses i am sure
[12:27:08] <crutchy> then you need to clone more employees to do the jobs of the previous employees, before knocking them off too
[12:27:28] <MrBluze> lol yes
[12:27:33] <MrBluze> money != debt
[12:27:40] <MrBluze> fiat money = debt
[12:28:23] <crutchy> or you can just do what that guy did in the states and give almost dead people $10k and take out life insurance policies on their behalf, and then when they kark it... profit
[12:28:41] <MrBluze> yeah that's pretty good
[12:29:03] <crutchy> yes... fiat money = debt
[12:29:19] <MrBluze> there was a spanish guy who borrowed $6k from heaps of banks
[12:29:32] <MrBluze> and used the borrowed money as collateral for more $6k loans
[12:29:45] <MrBluze> knowing that the amount was below the amount registered as debt in spain
[12:30:00] <crutchy> lol debt as collateral... banks must be pretty dumb
[12:30:10] <MrBluze> till he got somewhere in 10's of millions .. then gave it all to anti-bank charities
[12:30:11] <crutchy> hahahaha
[12:30:13] <MrBluze> and disappeared
[12:30:22] <crutchy> good on him
[12:30:32] <MrBluze> yeah actually, good on him - the money is pretend anyway
[12:30:38] <crutchy> except he was prolly "axed" too
[12:30:51] <MrBluze> nah he's still alive, got an interview recently
[12:31:50] <MrBluze> http://rt.com
[12:32:54] <crutchy> for some reason i can't open iceweasel :-(
[12:33:24] <crutchy> i'm using a debian vbox on my windows notebook cos i haven't set up my desktop properly yet
[12:33:31] <MrBluze> oh
[12:33:35] <crutchy> after nvidia borked it
[12:33:36] <MrBluze> get tails or something
[12:33:44] <MrBluze> then relax
[12:33:54] * MrBluze smiles
[12:34:00] <crutchy> i'm relaxing now... on the couch :-)
[12:34:11] <MrBluze> haha funny so am i
[12:34:13] <crutchy> can't do that with my desktop :-P
[12:34:21] <MrBluze> different couch obviously
[12:34:30] <crutchy> hope so
[12:34:44] <MrBluze> vbox is the way to go
[12:34:52] <crutchy> i'm sure you're an alright bloke an all
[12:34:52] <MrBluze> u get robust driver support with the windows
[12:35:03] <MrBluze> and u get robust OS support from linux
[12:35:27] <MrBluze> lol crutchy my couch is covered in book and toys and whatever.. not much room on it
[12:35:35] <crutchy> i just can't be fucked trying to figure out how to get nfs working in windows
[12:35:57] <crutchy> otherwise i'd just use windows
[12:36:03] <MrBluze> windows is shit
[12:36:09] <MrBluze> it really is
[12:36:43] <crutchy> i've got xfce on my desktop now :-D
[12:36:59] <MrBluze> doing well
[12:37:00] <crutchy> its come a long way from when i tried it last
[12:37:17] <MrBluze> yeah it's taking up where gnome failed
[12:37:26] <crutchy> default wm for debian jessie alpha
[12:37:47] <MrBluze> yup :) and a good thing too
[12:38:05] <MrBluze> for a stable, no frills but well functioning system xfce is good
[12:38:13] <crutchy> when it first came up i thought gnome had pulled its finger out of its butthole, till i logged in and saw the mousie :-P
[12:38:53] <crutchy> its almost gnome2
[12:39:01] <crutchy> uses panels
[12:39:09] <MrBluze> yeah, i liked gnome2
[12:39:18] <crutchy> the file browser is better than nautilus
[12:39:33] <MrBluze> gnome2's file browser was quite good though
[12:39:48] <crutchy> and i can log in as root without editing a conf file
[12:39:54] <MrBluze> and i still feel like a refugee using kde4
[12:39:57] * chromas remembers gnome1
[12:39:59] <crutchy> even though it splashes warnings everywhere
[12:40:05] <chromas> Gnome1 was in the movie Antitrust
[12:40:10] <crutchy> lol
[12:40:15] <crutchy> good movie
[12:40:19] <MrBluze> :)
[12:40:32] <crutchy> i wonder where they got the inspiration for the bad guy ???
[12:40:34] <MrBluze> gnome 1 wasn't as good as kde3
[12:40:46] <chromas> KDE3 was in that facebook movie
[12:41:01] <crutchy> i remember enlightenment in rh6
[12:41:13] <crutchy> i was blown away by gradient backgrounds :-P
[12:41:16] <MrBluze> enlightenment is now 17 isnt it?
[12:41:32] <chromas> 18
[12:41:37] <MrBluze> lol i remember rh6
[12:41:41] <crutchy> dunno. i haven't used rh since version 6.0
[12:41:41] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Ex-Googler Reveals Disturbing Trade Practices - http://sylnt.us - Don't-be^H^H^H^H^H^H-Evil
[12:41:46] <MrBluze> 18 .. yes havent tried it
[12:41:53] <chromas> KDE2 had gradient background too, though no diagonals
[12:42:48] <crutchy> i think rh6 had gnome as well (in the boxed version that i bought) but not sure which version
[12:42:50] <chromas> old E had drop shadows and stuff on windows before compositing
[12:43:29] <crutchy> it was cool cos you could switch between gnome and enlightenment easy
[12:43:46] <chromas> Now we need SoylentDesktop
[12:44:10] <MrBluze> nothing even now looks as good compared to anything, when i think of how good workbench 3.11 looked on the amiga compared to everything else
[12:44:12] <crutchy> if we do we should fork a really lightweight tiling wm
[12:44:24] <MrBluze> chromas: it's a good idea
[12:44:27] <crutchy> lol workbench... those were the days
[12:44:43] <MrBluze> man, the amiga2000 had genlock
[12:44:54] <MrBluze> live video editing
[12:44:55] <chromas> I never figured that out. I poked at it a bit when VideoToaster would crash
[12:44:59] <MrBluze> most pc's dont even do that now
[12:44:59] <crutchy> had an amega500 as a kid
[12:45:32] <crutchy> i think xlefay's mucking about with a tiling wm
[12:45:34] <MrBluze> freakin awesome.. 8 bit sound, yeah ok, but at insane bitrates
[12:47:04] <MrBluze> in some ways computers today are so overpowered now it's nearly no fun to learn on them for a kid
[12:47:24] <chromas> Too much abstraction
[12:47:53] <MrBluze> yes
[12:48:06] <MrBluze> im teaching the kids programming on the raspberry pi
[12:48:43] <chromas> "Hey, how does this function work? Let's see, it calls this function, which calls that function, which is empty. Wtf?!"
[12:49:03] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #Soylent
[12:49:03] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[12:49:47] <MrBluze> hi marty
[12:49:55] <MrBluze> i saw your name on the qa wiki
[12:50:04] <MrBluze> :)
[12:52:37] <crutchy> there's a qa wiki?
[12:53:21] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[12:53:44] <MrBluze> well its a new thing
[12:53:44] <Bytram> MrBluze: hi!
[12:53:48] <MrBluze> a bit of quality assurane
[12:53:52] <MrBluze> assurance
[12:53:59] <Bytram> actually it was put there long ago, but there
[12:54:00] <chromas> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[12:54:13] <Bytram> has been an increase in interest of late
[12:54:14] <chromas> oh different one
[12:54:20] <MrBluze> indeed
[12:54:28] <MrBluze> probably increase in need
[12:54:29] <Bytram> have no idea how long it will last or how effctive it will be.
[12:54:40] <Bytram> need buy-in from those who will be affected...
[12:54:43] <MrBluze> im thinking permanent
[12:54:56] <Bytram> otherwise it will be perceived as a roadblock to getting things out the door.
[12:55:07] <MrBluze> yes true, but it needn't be a roadblock
[12:55:31] <Bytram> also need to deal with changes that blow out a set of automated tests due to UI and/or functional changes
[12:55:45] <Bytram> it can be more time-consuming to maintain the tests than it is to write them in the first place.
[12:55:56] <crutchy> if you think of qa as roadblock you misunderstand qa
[12:56:07] <MrBluze> crutchy++
[12:56:07] <deadpeas> karma - crutchy: 61
[12:56:11] <Bytram> crutchy: you misunderstand
[12:56:11] <MrBluze> qa saves lives
[12:56:23] <MrBluze> and money and face
[12:56:33] <Bytram> I've got nearly 25 years' experience
[12:56:41] <crutchy> didn't mean you marty
[12:56:49] <crutchy> sorry bout that
[12:56:53] <crutchy> i mean anyone
[12:56:57] <Bytram> it's the *developers* ***perceptions*** of roadblock
[12:57:01] <MrBluze> bytram i dont think our role will be to develop tests
[12:57:03] <Bytram> no worry
[12:57:48] <Bytram> the primary thing I see a need for is a documentation of what it does and what it is supposed to do; get things codified and then consistified
[12:57:59] <crutchy> unit_testing++
[12:58:00] <deadpeas> karma - unit_testing: 1
[12:58:00] <MrBluze> yes exactly
[12:58:20] <Bytram> so we validate the tests *they* write?
[12:58:22] <MrBluze> and our other role is to determine if the idea is stupid in the first place
[12:58:38] <crutchy> nah. anyone can write unit tests
[12:59:04] <crutchy> just to stop people fucking things up that previously worked fine
[12:59:12] <MrBluze> yep
[12:59:33] <Bytram> crutchy: oh? how would you have them write a unit test for UI elements? (e.g. color of specific regions on the display; with different browsers)
[12:59:43] <Bytram> it's a great GOAL
[12:59:49] <Bytram> I just don't think it's that easy
[12:59:53] <MrBluze> we are qa not testing
[13:00:06] <crutchy> unit testing is a bit of a black art. you don't think of it like a programmer
[13:00:11] <MrBluze> testing is part of it, but too much for 2 or 3 people
[13:00:44] <Bytram> MrBluze++ No kidding!
[13:00:45] <deadpeas> karma - mrbluze: 20
[13:00:50] <crutchy> unit tests do things like create pretend environments and databases
[13:00:56] <MrBluze> unit testing means you sand blast it, idiot blast it and time-test it also to
[13:01:40] <MrBluze> qa writes a set of guidelines and standards and then enforces them
[13:02:20] <MrBluze> which might be .. if you make a change, you tell us how you think it's supposed to be tested and how you have considered the potential vulnerabilities etc
[13:02:28] <crutchy> to test UI elements you might make a pretend browser (just a little script that wgets a page and checks the various elements)
[13:02:35] <Bytram> sounds great and I'm all for it, and so will they be, but I fear that will last until we go to enforce it and it means more work.
[13:02:52] <MrBluze> yes true, Bytram
[13:02:57] <crutchy> unit testing can be as much work as developing, which is why so many people don;t do it
[13:03:16] <MrBluze> but that part is interpersonal relations which we can and must do well ourselves
[13:03:44] <Bytram> crutchy: yes, it's a LOT of work.
[13:03:51] <crutchy> you can't unit test everything, although some people do
[13:03:55] <MrBluze> .. we are coming into the stage when we should be doing things more slowly
[13:04:07] <MrBluze> well some things
[13:04:11] <crutchy> you might choose the important things to make tests for, like db connectivity
[13:04:28] <Bytram> I was thinking that this would get us a rough, high-level structure: wget --depth=1 --no-parent --mirror http://soylentnews.org
[13:04:32] <MrBluze> some things are too big to unit test
[13:04:56] <Bytram> MrBluze: too big, as in there is too much code that needs testing?
[13:05:02] <crutchy> integration is difficult to unit test, though some people try and end up creating a monster
[13:05:24] <MrBluze> Bytram: well say for example ncommander wants to upgrade a bunch of stuff on the main server
[13:05:33] <MrBluze> yeah integration
[13:05:43] <MrBluze> u just have to accept down time and go with it
[13:05:49] <crutchy> bytram: for slash, i would just focus on making tests for things that are added/changed... things that you test anyway as normal part of development
[13:06:06] <crutchy> instead of manually testing, you write a script, so you can call it again in future
[13:06:08] * MrBluze thinks crutchy is getting a calling here
[13:06:24] <MrBluze> we can qa those murkins mate ;)
[13:06:50] <Bytram> I'd be happy, for starters, that any proposed changes come with a doc which *enumerates* what is expected to change (and how) and what the forseen risks are.
[13:06:55] <crutchy> then you add that script to the test suite, and then wham bam thankyou ma'am.. unit testing :-P
[13:07:02] <MrBluze> Bytram: exactly
[13:07:05] <MrBluze> Bytram++
[13:07:05] <deadpeas> karma - bytram: 1
[13:07:14] <MrBluze> document the thing, describe it and make it usable
[13:07:43] <crutchy> nc might not like... he's a tinkerer
[13:07:51] <MrBluze> he is
[13:08:03] <MrBluze> but i think we need to broaden our coder-base
[13:08:07] <Bytram> but, documentation is much like testing, it can be perceived as more dead-weight that interferes with developement; especially when it is not maintained. (see: wiki)
[13:08:09] <crutchy> tinkerers don't write tests... i can vouch for that myself :-P
[13:08:40] <Bytram> crutchy++
[13:08:40] <deadpeas> karma - crutchy: 62
[13:08:47] <crutchy> though he is a core dev so he *should* be very familiar with unit testing
[13:08:54] <MrBluze> Bytram: but we can say this project is educational
[13:08:58] <Bytram> I've fallen prey to that myself.
[13:09:00] <crutchy> even if he resists it
[13:09:05] <MrBluze> and so people who join the project are going to learn to do things properly
[13:09:12] <MrBluze> they will grow and benefit from it
[13:09:35] <Bytram> it often takes more time to say what you're gonna do than it does to do it.
[13:09:46] <MrBluze> it takes 3 times as long
[13:09:54] <MrBluze> or more .. i never measured
[13:10:02] <Bytram> but it makes up for lost time when things go sideways
[13:10:19] <Bytram> we didn't plan to fail but we failed to plan
[13:10:26] <crutchy> if you fuck things up, the tests will tell you exactly where and when
[13:10:45] <MrBluze> yep
[13:11:01] <Bytram> doing: "foo"; expected "bar"; got "baz"; result: "FAIL"
[13:11:13] <Bytram> doing: "foo"; expected "bar"; got "bar"; result: "PASS"
[13:11:27] <MrBluze> yes that's the mechanistic side of qa
[13:11:40] <crutchy> dunno. i don't use those fluffy test frameworks. the limited unit testing experience i have i just developed the framework myself
[13:11:53] <MrBluze> but also "i recommend we fix the dirty window by hitting it with a hammer" . result: "FAIL"
[13:12:25] <Bytram> I've not used a commercial framework in a long while (though I've used a few); I've written/extended a half-dozen or so of my own.
[13:12:47] <Bytram> I wonder...
[13:13:05] <MrBluze> .. how you test very very much depends on what it is that is being proposed
[13:13:21] <Bytram> if we could get a "printf" at entry/exit of each "module" with the arg list and return values; that would go a LONG way to automation
[13:13:42] <Bytram> bugs tend to hide at interfaces
[13:14:04] <MrBluze> hmm.. yes
[13:14:10] <MrBluze> in the raw, yes
[13:14:30] <crutchy> i use something like
[13:14:31] <crutchy> @trigger_error("");
[13:14:31] <crutchy> $result=@test_function($test_params);
[13:14:31] <crutchy> $e=error_get_last();
[13:14:31] <crutchy> if ($e["message"]<>"")
[13:14:43] <crutchy> you might expect an error or not expect one
[13:15:00] <crutchy> catching die commands involves another layer
[13:15:02] <MrBluze> perl doesnt do try { } does it
[13:15:14] <crutchy> sorry ^ was php
[13:15:27] <crutchy> dunno mrbluze
[13:15:29] <MrBluze> php has try { } catch { } i think now?
[13:15:30] <Bytram> e.g. write a function that, given an array of values, return the average of them; easy enough... until you consider an empty list, or non-integer values, or complex numbers or character data or ... =)
[13:15:58] * Bytram has not used that stuff, but has seen it on TV (well, lcd)
[13:15:59] <MrBluze> yes, eactly Bytram
[13:16:17] <MrBluze> that's testing
[13:16:25] <MrBluze> qa is making sure they are doing testing right
[13:16:37] <MrBluze> we ensure the quality feedback loop happens
[13:16:56] <crutchy> i think they just have a sign off or something
[13:17:06] <Bytram> most (not all, but the vast majority) of developers I've met are concerned with getting the damn thing to work; they are not actively considering what could go wrong at each step of the process.
[13:17:06] <MrBluze> measure -> decide -> make -> test -> do -> measure
[13:17:42] <Bytram> MrBluze: succinct; I like it.
[13:17:50] <crutchy> bytram: if you write the test first, you just focus on writing a code to pass the test
[13:18:03] <MrBluze> u write the docs first
[13:18:08] <MrBluze> then write code to the specifications
[13:18:11] <MrBluze> then write code to test
[13:18:19] <crutchy> waterfall *shudders*
[13:18:29] <Bytram> MrBluze: not quite...
[13:18:37] <Bytram> write docs, write tests, write code
[13:18:48] <crutchy> ^xp :-)
[13:18:51] <MrBluze> <crutchy> bytram: if you write the test first, you just focus on writing a code to pass the test
[13:19:02] <crutchy> yeah
[13:19:13] <Bytram> there is that risk, but...
[13:19:25] <Bytram> if you write the code first, you write tests to make sure the code passes
[13:19:31] <MrBluze> .. as qa, we probably dont want to know about it until both are written
[13:19:37] <crutchy> the tests should adequately describe what the code needs to do
[13:19:44] <MrBluze> and then we look at it and see if it makes sense
[13:20:18] <Bytram> my experience is I write the doc, and as I write the tests to validate the doc I find I overlooked something, and I go back and update the doc until I know I have the domain and rang of the functions covered; then coding is easy
[13:20:18] <MrBluze> hence qa should have a multi-skilled group of ppl from different backgrounds so the 'second pair of eyes' is a good pair
[13:20:36] <MrBluze> yeah
[13:20:40] * Bytram has glasses - that makes for an extra pair right there!
[13:21:08] <crutchy> lol yeah me too :-P
[13:21:13] <MrBluze> ditto
[13:21:18] <Bytram> it's also important to distinguish between *research* and *development*
[13:21:23] <MrBluze> hey crutchy u gonna put your foot in the middle ?
[13:21:26] <stderr> MrBluze: I'm to lazy too read everything and I'm on my way out of the door, but "try {} catch {}" in perl is usually eval { do_something_scary(); } if($@) { oh_no(); }
[13:21:38] <MrBluze> stderr: ok
[13:21:47] <Bytram> stderr: thanks for that!
[13:21:54] * crutchy puts his foot in his mouth
[13:21:57] <MrBluze> well we need everything to do that
[13:22:05] <MrBluze> anyway thanks stderr
[13:22:26] <MrBluze> Bytram: yes well we wont be doing too much research, maybe some
[13:22:53] <Bytram> MrBluze: the one danger with *everything* doing that is the consumption of an error and how do you propogate that back up the "tree" so that it gets properly communicated to the user.
[13:23:22] <Bytram> were does it stop; who consumes it; how do they manipulate it (if at all), etc.
[13:23:30] <Bytram> s/were/where/
[13:23:31] <SedBot> <Bytram> where does it stop; who consumes it; how do they manipulate it (if at all), etc.
[13:23:35] <MrBluze> well yeah
[13:23:53] <MrBluze> error management is again like running a restaurant
[13:24:01] <Bytram> ?
[13:24:26] <MrBluze> the customer doesnt need to know anything except "apologies there's a 5 minute delay on your steak, but here's some complimentary wine"
[13:24:38] <Bytram> oh.
[13:24:41] <Bytram> hmmmmm.
[13:24:45] <MrBluze> and in the kitchen the chef has just been knocked unconscious with a frying pan
[13:24:53] <Bytram> LOL!
[13:25:04] <MrBluze> and we're busy finding a new chef
[13:25:17] <Bytram> sounds great, but as they say, the devil is in the details
[13:25:21] <Bytram> ROFL!
[13:25:38] <MrBluze> yeah but that's the thing with the try catch
[13:26:15] <MrBluze> we want to know the dirty on why things break and make sure that in practice, if they break, it looks shiny and nice
[13:26:28] <Bytram> MrBluze:++
[13:26:32] <Bytram> MrBluze++
[13:26:32] <deadpeas> karma - mrbluze: 21
[13:26:40] <Bytram> hey, I really wish I could stay and chat but I've got some stuff I gotta do before I go in to work today (and this day is gonna be crazy busy).
[13:26:55] <Bytram> I'll keep the channel open, but gotta step away for a bit
[13:26:56] <MrBluze> cheers have a good one
[13:27:00] <MrBluze> no prob
[13:27:09] <MrBluze> talk to xlefay about getting onto the bnc thing
[13:27:13] <Bytram> thanks! great discussion!!!!!
[13:27:25] <Bytram> huh? bnc? is that bacon without vowels?
[13:27:50] <MrBluze> summin like that
[13:28:00] <MrBluze> talk to him later about it
[13:28:14] <Bytram> or without jowels? =)
[13:28:15] <MrBluze> it logs things for u when you'er away
[13:28:25] <MrBluze> its like bacon AND coffee
[13:28:41] <Bytram> oh. thanks, but it won't help :(
[13:29:03] <Bytram> I get on-line by tethering my phone; when I'm away, I take my connection with me.
[13:29:15] <Bytram> maybe I need a longer cord?
[13:29:24] <crutchy> dtehrjthg
[13:29:34] <crutchy> jgfjhgh47\
[13:29:39] <crutchy> jgbg jhkuihjk]
[13:29:40] <crutchy> \2563+
[13:29:40] <crutchy> 6352+
[13:29:41] <crutchy> +
[13:29:45] <MrBluze> crutchy: get your kids away from the pc
[13:29:50] <Bytram> crutchy: wake up
[13:30:10] <Bytram> crutchy: face typing is NOT pretty
[13:30:12] <MrBluze> Bytram: the thing knows when you disconnect and stuff.. very clever
[13:30:44] <Bytram> thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely keep it in mind!!
[13:30:50] <Bytram> ok,gtg. L8R!
[13:31:01] <MrBluze> cheers
[13:31:17] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[13:34:00] <crutchy> cya bytram
[13:36:33] <MrBluze> crutchy: u using a real client
[13:36:34] <MrBluze> ?
[13:36:57] <crutchy> does xchat constitute a real client?
[13:37:04] <MrBluze> yep
[13:37:36] <MrBluze> ok then you will see the highlighted tab that just appeared lol
[13:38:48] <crutchy> dunno if i'm "interested" in qa... it's something i kinda have to know a bit about for work
[13:39:06] <MrBluze> uhm
[13:39:11] <MrBluze> we drink lots of beer ... ?
[13:39:15] <crutchy> qa and tinkering kinda don't really go hand in hand :-P
[13:39:16] <MrBluze> lol
[13:39:22] <MrBluze> they don't
[13:39:30] <MrBluze> qa usually goes with giving a damn
[13:39:35] <crutchy> yeah
[13:39:39] <MrBluze> which is kind of a pita
[13:39:39] <chromas> You can tinker on a qa system though
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[13:40:26] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - 3D-printed Circuits Using Silver-filled Silicon - http://sylnt.us - Circuits-Maximus
[13:40:38] <crutchy> if soylent is interested in unit testing i could maybe have some involvement in that
[13:40:48] <crutchy> unit tests don't have to be in perl
[13:40:53] <MrBluze> yeah i think so
[13:41:05] <MrBluze> that sort of thing is going to be necessary
[13:41:15] <MrBluze> we had it in mind from the start
[13:42:01] <crutchy> if you unit test the page output you can use whatever language you want
[13:42:10] <crutchy> just use wget equiv
[13:42:12] <MrBluze> yes exactly
[13:42:22] <crutchy> it would be a start anyway
[13:42:39] <crutchy> would need different tests for backend
[13:42:42] <MrBluze> there are things that are being developed right now that would be perfect for automated testing
[13:43:52] <crutchy> what kind of things?
[13:44:02] <crutchy> sorry i'm out of the dev loop :-P
[13:44:03] <MrBluze> oh just additional features for the website
[13:44:34] <MrBluze> but basically any sort of web interface stuff lends itself to unit testing
[13:44:44] <MrBluze> its just post/get and retrieve result stuff
[13:45:02] <MrBluze> i suppose the database analysis is the other end of it
[13:45:07] <crutchy> depends what you're testing i guess
[13:45:47] <crutchy> div id's probably something that could be tested
[13:46:13] <MrBluze> user interface integrity is manually done
[13:46:22] <MrBluze> cause it can break in so many ways
[13:46:32] <crutchy> ie set up some records in db, wget page that is expected to output them, and test if they show up correctly
[13:46:38] <MrBluze> yes
[13:47:00] <crutchy> might strip style info out
[13:47:13] <crutchy> unless you're testing style info
[13:47:14] <MrBluze> but more like, bombard the webpage with inputs of all kinds, make sure it sanely processes them and the database isnt trashed
[13:47:26] <MrBluze> style is different again
[13:47:53] <crutchy> i guess if you make a style change, you can make a test for it
[13:48:04] <MrBluze> w3c or whatever it is
[13:48:11] <MrBluze> compliance with that is one thing
[13:48:17] <crutchy> yeah
[13:48:26] <crutchy> i wrote a function to automate that for my work app
[13:48:27] <MrBluze> and having a bunch of browsers and devices
[13:49:02] <MrBluze> again early on we had a bunch of people who had a bunch of useless devices they could use to test changes but they disappeared
[13:49:16] <MrBluze> style has taken a back seat to stability / everything else
[13:49:35] <crutchy> prolly can't really unit test browser appearance
[13:49:48] <MrBluze> only manually
[13:49:51] <crutchy> just have to be careful what features are used
[13:50:31] <MrBluze> yes
[13:50:33] <crutchy> but that's ok... if unit testing is implemented for other stuff, might leave more time to test browsers
[13:50:41] <MrBluze> eventually there will be a UI overhaul
[13:50:46] <MrBluze> yes
[13:50:58] <MrBluze> mechanistic testing is the most labour intensive otherwise
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[13:51:57] <crutchy> i think the push for qa needs to come from the top
[13:52:15] <crutchy> its great, but the biggest qa roadblocks tend to come from higher up
[13:52:29] <MrBluze> it's coming from there :)
[13:52:52] <MrBluze> brb
[13:52:58] <crutchy> mkay
[13:54:01] <prospectacle> Hi guys
[13:54:33] <prospectacle> hope this evening finds you well
[13:55:34] <MrBluze> bak
[13:55:36] <MrBluze> hi prospectacle
[13:55:52] <MrBluze> crutchy: i just see qa as a good way to ensure that the project stays on track and succeeds without having to resort to politics
[13:56:35] <crutchy> qa is good, but it has to be top down for it to work
[13:56:44] <MrBluze> yep
[13:56:50] <crutchy> same with things like lean
[13:57:01] <crutchy> they're all great until managers dodge the system
[13:57:02] <MrBluze> i guess in this case we dont have an accreditation committee to tell us we are shit
[13:57:06] <crutchy> lol
[13:57:21] <MrBluze> but if we imagine such a committee
[13:57:33] <MrBluze> ie: if we are shit, nobody will stay in 6 months time
[13:57:43] <crutchy> part of the redundant department of redundancy?
[13:57:46] <MrBluze> then it's pretty obvious we need a qa process
[13:57:51] * MrBluze nods
[13:57:54] * MrBluze nods again just to be safe
[13:58:12] * crutchy nods to back up mrbluzes safety nod
[13:58:30] <MrBluze> careful to nod out of sync in case the fault is in the timing of the nod
[13:58:46] <crutchy> especially cos i'm running on top of windows
[13:58:56] <MrBluze> hope the glass is thick enough
[13:59:04] <crutchy> i might have a bnod
[13:59:04] <MrBluze> hey i had a chat with an engineer the other night
[13:59:15] <MrBluze> about the westgate bridge disaster
[13:59:21] <MrBluze> that was an interesting exercise in qa
[14:00:00] <crutchy> chatted with an engineer? did you admit yourself to therapy afterwards or did your family admit you?
[14:00:06] <MrBluze> lol
[14:00:12] <MrBluze> there was alcohol and bacon
[14:00:27] <crutchy> ahh alcohol soothes the savage engineer
[14:00:32] <MrBluze> but the collapse was caused by freakishly well timed wind gusts
[14:00:54] <crutchy> tacoma narrows is a often quoted example in engineering degrees
[14:01:21] <crutchy> prolly cos there's a cool video of it
[14:01:26] <MrBluze> yes
[14:02:53] <prospectacle> yeah that feedback loop from high winds is fascinating. But they found a way around it, the smart bastards. They always do
[14:02:54] <MrBluze> but u wouldnt have thought the westgate would do it
[14:02:57] <MrBluze> it was made of concrete
[14:03:03] <prospectacle> I don't know how japan has earthquake proof subways, but they do.
[14:04:05] <MrBluze> aerofoil effect
[14:04:31] <MrBluze> earthquake proofing i dunno.. i remember it had to do with large amounts of rubber
[14:04:33] <crutchy> it's driven by harmonics
[14:04:45] <MrBluze> i think the harmonics thing was a fallacy
[14:04:52] <crutchy> and natural frequency
[14:05:02] <crutchy> nah its real
[14:05:09] <crutchy> easily demonstrated
[14:05:12] <MrBluze> http://www.ketchum.org
[14:05:24] <prospectacle> it's real but I don't think it's the reason behind the bridge, is it?
[14:06:07] <MrBluze> in the westgate bridge it wasnt resonance
[14:06:22] <MrBluze> well it was and wasn't
[14:06:33] <crutchy> that paper basically proposes flutter
[14:06:44] <MrBluze> yeah
[14:06:45] <crutchy> like an airplane wing
[14:06:57] <crutchy> it's still kinda related
[14:07:10] <MrBluze> it is
[14:07:13] <MrBluze> aerofoil effect
[14:07:16] <crutchy> sounds like the author was splitting hairs
[14:07:19] <MrBluze> it puts energy into the system either way
[14:07:38] <MrBluze> but doesnt rely so much on the resonant frequency being met, just the direction of wind being correct
[14:07:52] <crutchy> if you make the structure stiffer, it increases the resonance frequency... same goes for flutter speed
[14:08:08] <crutchy> flutter is related to airspeed
[14:08:09] <MrBluze> yeah
[14:08:20] <MrBluze> but if the thing is less dense the flutter is easier
[14:08:41] <MrBluze> they made the westgate bridge light but strong
[14:08:51] <crutchy> you can make a light but rigid structure... that's basically what an aircraft wing is
[14:09:10] * MrBluze nods his empty head in the wind to demonstrate
[14:09:50] <MrBluze> anyway it was interesting qa
[14:10:08] <crutchy> although wings are designed to deflect, but that rigidity is designed to be sufficient to ensure the flutter speed is greater than the maximum dive speed
[14:10:15] <MrBluze> because they didnt really do testing on the design in that scenario
[14:11:10] <MrBluze> crutchy: that does make sense .. thing is in an aircraft that problem is immediately obvious
[14:11:12] <crutchy> they also do tricks like stick weights on control surface horns to make sure you don't get control surface reversal
[14:11:19] <prospectacle> I heard somewhere you just need another platform below the bridge-top (with a gap in between) and it disrupts the windflow enough that it can't build up force like that.
[14:11:40] <MrBluze> hmm.. interesting
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[14:11:46] <MrBluze> dont think the bridge has that?
[14:12:04] <MrBluze> last time i drove under it it looked jusst like a big fat bridge
[14:12:40] <crutchy> it has some aerodynamic features though
[14:12:45] <crutchy> like the tapered underside
[14:12:51] <MrBluze> yes
[14:13:21] <crutchy> i spent 3 years of my schooling almost under that bridge :-P
[14:13:43] <crutchy> maybe 200 m away
[14:13:57] <MrBluze> williamstown high?
[14:14:17] <crutchy> fishermans bend
[14:14:18] <crutchy> rmit
[14:14:48] <MrBluze> ah ok
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[14:14:57] <prospectacle> I think it was one of those big-bigger-biggest engineering dvds. They went from the first suspension bridge (or something) to the longest bridge in the world
[14:15:55] <prospectacle> and they spoke about how they'd adapted to the wind problem. i'm pretty sure you just have a gap of a metre or two under the brige, and then another layer of solid something. Then the air is confused and can't think straight
[14:16:06] <prospectacle> I may be paraphrasing
[14:16:11] <MrBluze> lol nice analogy
[14:16:51] <MrBluze> but yeah if you have enough turbulence you get lower probability of getting a resonating system
[14:17:17] <MrBluze> hmm .. thats not quite right but
[14:18:53] <MrBluze> what crutchy said before .. a system has to have optimal damping, and as i recall a resonant freq 10x of the signal is a requirement
[14:19:42] <crutchy> the structural codes have requirements for natural frequency... cranes are more strict
[14:20:18] <MrBluze> i guess the point i wanted to make though was the qa
[14:20:29] <MrBluze> how to prevent catastrophic failure of this project
[14:20:40] <MrBluze> 1. dont be a roadblock :)
[14:21:44] <prospectacle> yes
[14:22:34] <prospectacle> qa is important. I have a theory, untested and unproven, but good qa is cheaper even in the short(ish) term. If it's sufficiently integrated into the dev. process
[14:22:50] <MrBluze> i'd agree
[14:22:59] <MrBluze> most companies sink due to poor qa
[14:23:02] <MrBluze> nations even
[14:23:13] <prospectacle> It costs a lot of money to reverse direction when you find a problematic ingredient that you now depend on because you've had it for so long.
[14:23:37] <MrBluze> prospectacle++
[14:23:37] <deadpeas> karma - prospectacle: 8
[14:23:40] <MrBluze> ain't that the truth!
[14:23:50] <prospectacle> good testers might know almost nothing about how to make the product, but they're worth just as much
[14:24:03] <MrBluze> ok ppl im off to bed
[14:24:09] <prospectacle> ok catch you later.
[14:24:23] <MrBluze> seeya prospectacle
[14:24:26] <MrBluze> seeya crutchy
[14:24:40] <prospectacle> so that google story probably shouldn't have been published, imo
[14:24:48] <MrBluze> always good to have a yarn
[14:24:50] <MrBluze> oh
[14:24:55] <prospectacle> it was an anonymous "guest" on pastebin, with no specific evidence
[14:25:00] <prospectacle> we're better than that
[14:25:38] <MrBluze> uhm.. yes actually
[14:25:43] <prospectacle> anyway, just trying to think up a new topic for the room I'm not asking you to do anything about it.
[14:26:38] <MrBluze> oh i wont be doing anything
[14:26:56] <MrBluze> im going to bed :) and im not chief editor or anything like that
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[14:27:17] <MrBluze> the point of those articles is to stimulate discussion and debate
[14:27:44] <MrBluze> not exactly bad press for google as the source is clearly not very strong
[14:28:13] <MrBluze> seeya :)
[14:29:00] <crutchy> cya mrbluze
[14:30:09] <crutchy> prospectacle: i like qa, but it can be hard to make it work
[14:30:44] <crutchy> had to be driven from the top. if senior management isn't onboard all the way, not going to work
[14:31:09] * crutchy needs qa for his typing
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[14:32:42] <prospectacle> crutchy, yes, done wrong it can be a massive hindrance.
[14:33:32] <prospectacle> crutchy. you also need people who know what they're doing. Probably you need people who know how something is made, to hire the testers. Even if the testers aren't engineers/programmers/etc
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[14:34:17] <crutchy> that's how a company would do it, yeah
[14:34:29] <crutchy> soylent not really able to do that i guess
[14:35:04] <prospectacle> oh, right. I'm missing context
[14:35:10] <prospectacle> didn't realise we were talking about sn
[14:35:22] <crutchy> ah
[14:35:36] <crutchy> sorry we were before
[14:35:54] <crutchy> started from mention of the qa wiki page
[14:36:07] <crutchy> ended up on bridge failures :-P
[14:36:19] <prospectacle> lol that sounds about right
[14:36:35] <prospectacle> but yeah it's hard on a site like this. I guess a bugzilla installation or something could be good
[14:36:52] <prospectacle> We've got every other system, it seems, or will have soon. Maybe a bugzilla, or similar, would be useful
[14:37:03] <crutchy> depends a lot on what is expected too... quality is subjective
[14:37:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> nickserv and hostserv got their dbs wiped
[14:37:39] <prospectacle> oh?
[14:37:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> bleh, append '?' to that
[14:37:57] <prospectacle> MightyBuzzard, what happened?
[14:38:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> skipped a couple months and came back unknown to them.
[14:38:27] <crutchy> you can get ISO9001 for making something of seemingly poor quality, but it depends on what customers expect... if you sell something cheap and cheerful, and you can repeatedly meet that expectation, then that's quality control
[14:39:05] <crutchy> i think qa is just making sure you have the systems in place to ensure repeatable outcomes
[14:39:16] <crutchy> even if those outcomes are shit
[14:40:24] <prospectacle> Yes, defining your outcomes is the key. Everything else stems from that.
[14:40:37] <crutchy> we could develop procedures to ensure that once a month we had a major site disruption
[14:40:45] <crutchy> that would be quality control
[14:40:52] <prospectacle> ISO900x is just a tool to help you meet those ends.
[14:40:54] <crutchy> the tricky part is then making sure you don't get two
[14:41:05] <crutchy> yeah
[14:42:05] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, forgive me, but your last sentence has caused an error code in my english parser.
[14:43:07] <prospectacle> I propose we make sure to have at least one coup d'etat per decade
[14:43:07] <crutchy> you have an english parser?
[14:43:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> I'm an American, that happens with us sometimes.
[14:43:30] <crutchy> oh you mean a butcher's knife :-P
[14:43:45] <crutchy> for parsing people from england
[14:43:52] <crutchy> into tokens
[14:43:54] <crutchy> :-P
[14:43:57] <prospectacle> lol
[14:44:12] <crutchy> must be late
[14:44:13] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, I got all the individual words just fine, so it's not your accent.
[14:44:26] <prospectacle> I'm probably just missing context again.
[14:44:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> I meant that I had been registered with both then dropped off IRC for a month or two and now I'm not.
[14:44:57] <crutchy> there's a 30 day deadline
[14:44:59] <crutchy> or something
[14:45:06] <prospectacle> oh, right, it makes perfect sense now that I read it again.
[14:45:10] <crutchy> if you don't identify
[14:45:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh. be less lazy then.
[14:45:20] <crutchy> you lose your registration
[14:45:47] <crutchy> xlefay mentioned maybe extending it to 60 days but not sure if it will happen
[14:46:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> That's a shame. I loved that nsa.gov hostmask.
[14:46:19] <crutchy> can't get it again?
[14:46:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> probably
[14:46:41] <prospectacle> I'm going to add an expiration to the demos on my new website (to demo my to-do list manager), what do you think is a reasonable expiration? I was thinking a week is plenty. IF you really want to use it you can download it and run it on your own server.
[14:47:12] <prospectacle> but I guess there's no need to be greedy. I doubt I'll have millions of people using it or anything.
[14:47:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you do you can probably get enough of them to pitch in to justify any needed upgrades.
[14:48:26] <crutchy> expiration?
[14:48:32] <crutchy> for todo items?
[14:48:49] <prospectacle> crutchy, like you go to the site, you get a demo account created automatically to test the program. If you don't come back to the site for a week, your demo account is deleted.
[14:49:00] <prospectacle> If you want of course you can download the source code, and the database, and run it forever on your own machine.
[14:49:04] <prospectacle> or someone elses
[14:49:14] <crutchy> i guess that's fair
[14:49:41] <crutchy> open source doesn't imply open service
[14:49:55] <crutchy> maybe 30 days?
[14:50:13] <prospectacle> yeah, I mean leaving them up forever would just be silly. But on the other hand space is cheap and if there's only a few hundred people a month trying it out, that would be nothing, really.
[14:50:14] <crutchy> if you're not checking your todo after 30 days you probably don't need a todo
[14:50:17] <prospectacle> Yeah maybe 30 days, why not.
[14:50:22] <prospectacle> crutchy, lol, agreed
[14:50:42] <prospectacle> nothing you planned todo 30 days ago and never updated, is going to be relevant anyway.
[14:50:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep, that would account for the week long bender or the odd vacation.
[14:50:57] <crutchy> lol
[14:51:34] <prospectacle> themightybuzzard, wise words
[14:52:18] <prospectacle> i don't want to actually host people's data. It's more like when you go to phpmyadmin.com and click "try demo". No reason people can't try that demo over several days, but it's not a real account.
[14:52:46] <prospectacle> by which I mean phpmyadmin.net
[14:52:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. makes more sense now.
[14:54:10] <prospectacle> wow phpmyadmin has gotten way better, ui wise
[14:54:53] <prospectacle> http://demo.phpmyadmin.net
[14:55:14] <prospectacle> well, moderately better
[14:55:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah? it was workable last time i looked at it but i still do everything from the terminal.
[14:56:49] <prospectacle> they've got a better tree-view on the left, and you can edit records just by clicking on a field in a result-set
[14:57:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> nice
[14:58:49] <prospectacle> i like that phpymadmin is available as standard on virtually any host, and gives you quick stats and queries. I guess if I learned the command line well, it would be just as quick to use (or close), but I never remember all the commands, field names, etc so it's good to have a gui
[15:00:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. it was usable but only just when I started, so it was just quicker/easier to do everything from the terminal.
[15:01:00] <crutchy> and all the hackerbots target it
[15:02:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, my error log is absolutely full of attempts on that vector.
[15:03:36] <prospectacle> hmm I should check the logs.
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[15:04:55] <weeds> Top of the mornin to ya!
[15:05:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
[15:05:26] <prospectacle> hi weeds
[15:05:50] <crutchy> g'day weeds
[15:07:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's pointless against my servers as a general rule. i usually don't install php unless a client has a dire and specific need for it.
[15:08:16] <prospectacle> do you run a hosting company?
[15:08:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah. roving sys/network admin. mostly for schools and SMBs
[15:09:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> for places that don't need/can't afford a full time admin.
[15:09:42] <prospectacle> makes sense. Do you prefer it to full time single employer work?
[15:10:05] * prospectacle sometimes decides to work towards becoming a contract, but then can't be bothered making the change.
[15:10:12] <prospectacle> s/contract/contractor/
[15:10:12] <SedBot> <prospectacle> sometimes decides to work towards becoming a contractor, but then can't be bothered making the change.
[15:10:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh absolutely. if you can get contacts enough to work for yourself, it's the way to go.
[15:10:35] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - SEC Chair Insists 'The Markets Are Not Rigged' - http://sylnt.us - The-House-Always-Wins
[15:11:02] <prospectacle> I guess you would have more freedom
[15:11:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> i get a moderate retainer that covers X hours per quarter, parts or anything over billable.
[15:12:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> so far they're happy and i mostly get to sit on my butt except when heartbleed or similar happens.
[15:12:24] <prospectacle> nice
[15:12:52] <prospectacle> can you do much of your work on your phone from a bar?
[15:13:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> can do anything but parts replacement or wire pulls from anywhere with wifi.
[15:14:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> about once a quarter i do go in and chase off the dust bunnies and other things that you need to be on site for.
[15:15:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> but mostly things just keep running. makes them happy, makes me not need to get a real job.
[15:15:16] <prospectacle> yeah, I can see everybody wins.
[15:15:36] <prospectacle> That sounds like the kind of job I want. I mean maybe not sysadmin, but something where I am set up to keep people happy with very few actual hours
[15:15:42] <prospectacle> from anywhere
[15:16:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> sales/liason works well with that too.
[15:16:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> or any form of consultant
[15:16:24] <prospectacle> maybe I'll invent an independent game called minecraft that is really addictive and charge not very much for it. That seems to work.
[15:16:55] <prospectacle> anything with passive income sounds pretty sweet. "Click here to give me money"
[15:18:07] <prospectacle> well I think it's time for the other kind of dreaming. Night all
[15:18:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> nite
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[15:19:01] <stderr> I'm a hack...
[15:19:06] <stderr> I mean... I'm back...
[15:26:51] <crutchy> you're a terminator?
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[15:28:58] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v janrinok] by juggler
[15:33:04] Blackmoore|AFD is now known as Blckmoore
[15:33:40] <Blckmoore> hmph i once knew a terminator. and you sir could not funtion as an electrical device.
[15:34:45] <Space_Man> damn bot get back to work
[15:35:25] <crutchy> night prospectacle
[15:35:35] <crutchy> hmm that was a little late
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[15:40:45] <Blckmoore> yeah, so Mornin
[15:41:18] <janrinok> hi guys - America not awake yet?
[15:42:06] * FoobarBazbot_ is awake
[15:42:43] <weeds> awake
[15:43:08] <janrinok> well hello FoobarBazbot is the best that I can say then..... Oh, and hi (anag)Blckmoore
[15:44:38] <janrinok> hi weeds
[15:45:05] <crutchy> morning janrinok,foobarbazbot,blckmoore
[15:45:12] <crutchy> and weeds
[15:45:14] <janrinok> hi crutchy
[15:45:14] <crutchy> :-)
[15:45:22] <weeds> hello, how's by you?
[15:45:27] <janrinok> I thought you were ignoring weeds there for a moment...
[15:45:37] <crutchy> it's not quite morning here yet
[15:45:43] <crutchy> still 15 minutes to go :-P
[15:45:49] <janrinok> by me? good, mid-afternoon
[15:45:52] <weeds> I was typing "What am I, chopped liver?"
[15:45:58] <weeds> :)
[15:47:45] <FoobarBazbot_> I wish SN supported <quote>
[15:48:08] <FoobarBazbot_> I'm used to it from /., and keep forgetting.
[15:48:20] <janrinok> it supports <blockquote>
[15:48:46] <FoobarBazbot_> yeah, but on /., <quote> and <blockquote> are the same, so I got used to typing the shorter one
[15:49:04] <janrinok> that's progress.....
[15:49:10] <FoobarBazbot_> now I keep forgetting, and occasionally don't catch it in preview
[15:49:30] <janrinok> you see, we give 5 more characters per quote - take that, /.
[15:50:36] <FoobarBazbot_> anyway, http://soylentnews.org
[15:51:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> i got used to /. not supporting <quote> back in the day and never noticed when they started.
[15:51:52] <janrinok> lol - I like it!
[15:52:26] <Blckmoore> 'ello. not awake - and trying to work a bit
[15:52:29] <FoobarBazbot_> Maybe it's just the political season (coming up on primaries in my state) and associated "non-affiliated" organizations running attack pieces, but I have no time for completely anonymous "revelations" with no corroborating details, posted for public view instead of sent to law enforcement
[15:52:43] <FoobarBazbot_> it stinks
[15:53:39] <Blckmoore> FoobarBazbot_: so why don't we set up a superPAC; and run ads protesting political ads.
[15:54:22] * FoobarBazbot_ stares into the abyss
[15:54:35] <Blckmoore> and in 2016 we can run ads promoting Chtulu - why vote for the lesser evil?
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[16:22:00] <Blckmoore> http://what-if.xkcd.com
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[16:31:36] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Success Breeds Success - http://sylnt.us - Feedback-Loop
[16:35:23] <unitron> What does <quote> look like when it responds differently from <blockquote>? (like the man said, standards are wonderful things, that's why there are so many of them : - )
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[16:56:22] <Woods> Good news guys, I am officially 1 karma away from 50, woo!
[16:56:33] <Blckmoore> woot!
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[17:07:24] <Blckmoore> anyone in here play minecraft?
[17:09:14] <Woods> I have in the past, but not recently.
[17:10:55] <Blckmoore> I'm trying to make a piston device to build out stone platforms.. damn thing is fiddly.
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[17:17:02] mrcool|zzz is now known as mrcoolbp
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[17:29:48] <Woods> Yeah, those pistons can be finnicky.
[17:42:54] <Blckmoore> If i was using redpower i could pull of the wiring prety easily. I had WANTED to move the blocks, fill up the are with lave; douse it with water and move the cobblestone.. but yeah..
[17:44:11] <Blckmoore> at least i dont have to deal with real physics
[17:44:25] <Woods> Ahhh, cobblestone generator eh?
[17:45:38] <Woods> I never could figure it out myself, my friend made one that worked pretty well, not sure if he used a guide or what though.
[17:49:29] * NCommander downmods Woods
[17:49:34] <Blckmoore> cobblestone platform generator -
[17:49:35] <NCommander> :-)
[17:49:48] <Blckmoore> i'm playing skyblock
[17:50:01] <NCommander> I thought about playing skyblock
[17:50:13] <Blckmoore> and working over the void is giving my vertigo
[17:50:35] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Debian May Drop the SPARC Architecture - http://sylnt.us - problems-with-hardware-software-and-people
[17:50:50] <Blckmoore> i'm playing Agrainian Skies. it's modded, so you can generate the resources.. and the quest book is really cool
[17:53:04] <Blckmoore> I am considering opening my MC server (FTB horizons) to the people in here. trouble is the damn thing is laggy for me already.
[17:53:23] <Blckmoore> I may wait till i nuke the server and start on a new pack
[17:54:00] <Blckmoore> (wants a 1.7 modded server.. mods aint ready for prime time yet)
[17:55:10] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: http://dev.soylentnews.org
[17:56:22] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, hrm ... I'm debating if we should strike Do you only want tech news?
[17:56:51] <mrcoolbp> hmm
[18:01:44] <Blckmoore> we could expand scope - but i think we'd want to handle that in a sub-forum
[18:02:54] <mrcoolbp> blackmoore: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[18:03:04] <mrcoolbp> er... Blckmoore
[18:04:23] <mrcoolbp> Blckmoore, of course the scope could be expanded, but we had nothing before, I just wanted to get *something* up
[18:04:42] <mrcoolbp> I'm trying to focus on most important stuff first
[18:04:56] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I can remove that one if you like, I see where you're coming from
[18:05:13] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, yeah, let me look it over a bit more
[18:05:19] <NCommander> Fuck it, I'm going to reup for another night
[18:05:21] <NCommander> *sigh*
[18:05:25] <NCommander> Apartment hunt is going badly
[18:06:46] <mrcoolbp> Ncommander: that one was added by LaminatorX for what it's worth
[18:06:47] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: are you in Portsmouth?
[18:13:08] <Blckmoore> mrcoolbp: i really like the I don't wish to log in because my tinfoil hat is very comfy, what am I missing? line :P
[18:14:03] <Blckmoore> the page looks clean. easy to read. flows well.
[18:14:17] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, Durham, NH, a few towns over
[18:15:35] <mrcoolbp> Blckmoore: cool, I'd love to take credit, but I think I borrowed that from the orig slash docs
[18:15:40] <Blckmoore> Do you only want tech news? - well, I think the answer is ok, you might want to ajust that answer if you want to open the gates more or less
[18:15:48] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: shall I come visit you?
[18:16:08] <mrcoolbp> Blckmoore: he's debating just taking that one out
[18:16:08] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, ?, I thought you were in like PA?
[18:16:15] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: MA
[18:16:25] <mrcoolbp> you keep forgetting (terrible place) remember?
[18:16:54] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I've mentally blocked it out of my life
[18:16:59] <mrcoolbp> heh
[18:17:05] <Blckmoore> http://www.reddit.com
[18:17:05] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, there's just a void between CT/RI and the north
[18:17:08] * mrcoolbp has lived here for years and knows why
[18:17:10] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I can drive to you
[18:17:14] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, you got married?
[18:17:19] <mrcoolbp> yup
[18:18:11] <NCommander> only reason anyone would willing move to MA :-)
[18:18:25] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, if today continues to be a bust on the apartment hunt, I can drive down to you. I already drove to Blckmoore
[18:18:34] <mrcoolbp> really?
[18:18:48] <mrcoolbp> cool, I'd love to grab a beer/food around 5pm
[18:20:22] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, where are you exactly?
[18:20:33] <mrcoolbp> Framingham
[18:21:44] <NCommander> Thats right
[18:22:00] <NCommander> At least I don't need to go through the Big Ditch to get there :-)
[18:22:44] <mrcoolbp> you can avoid that catastrophe, yes
[18:23:19] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I meant, strictly speaking, its better than what it was
[18:23:29] <mrcoolbp> oh totally
[18:23:36] <NCommander> I remember the other green monster
[18:24:04] <mrcoolbp> you mean the Charles river = )
[18:25:31] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, yeah. I still can't believe how MADOT could dump that much money in a defective tunnel -_-;
[18:26:14] <mrcoolbp> it killed a few people
[18:26:21] <mrcoolbp> when it collapsed
[18:26:30] <mrcoolbp> after going WA
[18:26:37] <mrcoolbp> WAY over budget and time
[18:26:47] <mrcoolbp> cost another 25 mill per family
[18:30:05] <Blckmoore> geh. only this kind of major project could go so bad, and cost so damn much
[18:32:26] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I recommend: https://www.johnharvards.com
[18:32:49] <mrcoolbp> good food/beer
[18:33:01] Blckmoore is now known as Blackmoore|lunch
[18:34:05] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, on the FAQ, I'm also kinda eh on Why is your grammar/spelling so bad?
[18:34:05] <NCommander> We're more interested in getting the stories out quickly than we are in making sure every post passes the white glove test. We attempt to catch most of the spelling and grammar mistakes by having an additional editor sign off on each story, but with our limited resources that doesn't always happen, and certainly things do sometimes slip through. Feel free to point it out, we may even make corrections depending on the case.
[18:34:08] <NCommander> It kinda sounds bad
[18:34:40] <mrcoolbp> I like having the Question in there, maybe we need to re-word the answer?
[18:35:18] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: ^^
[18:36:02] <NCommander> perhaps
[18:36:44] <Woods> You could add a little bit at the end about how some of our editors do not have a "Proper" education.
[18:36:58] <mrcoolbp> if you remove the first sentence, the answer still works..
[18:37:31] <NCommander> Yeah, I think so
[18:37:32] <Woods> Or that works.
[18:37:36] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, MAKE IT SO!
[18:37:43] <mrcoolbp> DONE!
[18:37:53] * NCommander stamps Approved on mrcoolbp's forehead
[18:38:11] <mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[18:39:57] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I feel like we need an entry "OH GOD, NCOMMANDER'S POST ARE SO LONG, HOW DO WE GET RID OF HIS KEYBOARD?"
[18:40:08] <mrcoolbp> hah
[18:40:14] <mrcoolbp> okay: DONE!
[18:40:21] <NCommander> Oh crap
[18:41:14] <Woods> Mrcoolbp: Be sure to send me a link when you get that written up, so I can double-check it
[18:41:28] * mrcoolbp is working something up on the wiki
[18:43:43] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[18:45:58] <Blackmoore|lunch> much better
[18:47:42] <Woods> Mrcoolbp: Change suggested in bold.
[18:48:41] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, ....................
[18:48:46] <mrcoolbp> woods, got it
[19:00:43] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: do you have my phone number from when I texted you a week or two ago?
[19:01:52] <mrcoolbp> (in case you want to grab a beer/food)
[19:05:39] <arti> he should have plenty of food left over from the apartment hunt
[19:06:12] <arti> maybe ncommander can write his posts in a terse language
[19:08:41] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, probably somewhere
[19:08:51] <NCommander> arti, I've gotten better from WALLS OF TEXT
[19:09:00] <arti> also, hello /morning/evening
[19:09:18] <arti> sounds like a good RPG name
[19:09:20] <arti> comic perhaps
[19:16:13] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: gonna take a break from this, I got a bunch of other stuff to do
[19:16:26] <mrcoolbp> BBL
[19:16:57] mrcoolbp is now known as mrcool|afk
[19:17:54] <NCommander> mrcool|afk, cya
[19:21:44] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Bioengineers Propose a 1 Million Neuron Simulator Board - http://sylnt.us - a-long-way-to-go
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[19:56:26] <xlefay> NCommander: the other day I wanted to code such a frontend for the vote and I got told "NO" hahaha, what a fucking joke
[19:56:49] <chromas> Did you secretly do it anyway, just in case?
[19:57:52] <NCommander> xlefay, wait, what?
[19:59:11] <xlefay> chromas: no, figured it was a pointless waste of time at that point
[19:59:19] <xlefay> NCommander: ;-)
[19:59:31] <xlefay> Anyway, I'm going to continue setting up my new shiny irssi
[20:00:21] <NCommander> xlefay, joy
[20:00:43] <xlefay> NCommander: you'll have those deb packages shortly, I kept running into shitty errors while making them but everything seems to be going OK now
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[20:51:52] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Got Gas? You've Got Healthy Gut Microbes - http://sylnt.us - gone-with-the-wind
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[21:13:37] <Blackmoore> moo
[21:14:00] <Blackmoore> even the bot is asleep
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[21:26:03] <michealpwalls> lol
[21:26:09] <michealpwalls> 503 errors
[21:29:36] <chromas> As anon or logged in?
[21:30:34] <michealpwalls> *thinks*
[21:30:37] <michealpwalls> I was logged in
[21:30:42] <michealpwalls> Seems to be fine now, though
[21:44:11] <Blackmoore> just waiting for th 451 error
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[22:11:53] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - USPS Serves Spammers, Refuses to Digitize - http://sylnt.us - digital-is-a-fad
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[22:45:12] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: ok, I'm on a machine here
[22:45:18] <NC|BestBuy> give me a moment to assess the situation
[22:45:20] <paulej72> I see
[22:45:45] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: commenting is working so the database has a writer connection
[22:46:09] <NC|BestBuy> If there was no writer connection; the backend would prevent logins (at least according to the code)
[22:46:14] <paulej72> [Wed Apr 30 20:39:40 2014] [error] /admin.pl:Slash::DB::Utility:/srv/soylentnews.org/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/x86_64-linux/Slash/DB/Utility.pm:1072:virtuser='neon_writer' -- hostinfo='neon.li694-22 via TCP/IP' -- When @@GLOBAL.ENFORCE_GTID_CONSISTENCY = 1, updates to non-transactional tables can only be done in either autocommitted statements or single-statement transactions, and never in the same statement as updates to
[22:46:15] <paulej72> transactional tables. -- INSERT INTO story_text (stoid) VALUES(\n '1230')\n ;; Which was called by:Slash::DB::MySQL:/srv/soylentnews.org/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/x86_64-linux/Slash/DB/MySQL.pm:7910
[22:46:33] <NC|BestBuy> Oh fuck
[22:46:43] <NC|BestBuy> Shit, that's a landmine they don't tell you about
[22:46:44] <NC|BestBuy> Ugh
[22:46:59] <NC|BestBuy> Stand by, I know what broke that; it was setting neon up as a master for hot failover
[22:47:43] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: can you get on neon?
[22:47:52] <paulej72> yes
[22:47:56] <paulej72> hold on
[22:48:15] <paulej72> I am there
[22:48:52] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: let me figure this out
[22:50:10] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: wow, thats incredibly irritating, but it appears with GITDs enabled, you can't update myISAM tables properly
[22:50:19] <NC|BestBuy> without it being in a BEGIN TRANSACTION block
[22:51:50] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: ok, quick and dirty fix
[22:52:03] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: on neon, sudo to root, open /opt/mysql*/my.cnf
[22:52:20] <NC|BestBuy> Find the line "enforce-gtid-consistency" and delete it
[22:52:57] <NC|BestBuy> Restart the mysql server with /opt/mysql*/support-files/mysql.server restart
[22:53:17] <NC|BestBuy> THen restart the web heads from boron (use the script in /srv/soylentnews.org/bin as slash user)
[22:55:07] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: ??
[22:55:39] <paulej72> NC|BestBuy: restart of web frontends in progress
[22:56:30] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: what a fucking landmine. THere's a very tiny footnote about this, and its not clear at all
[22:56:53] <paulej72> NC|BestBuy: something did not go correctly
[22:57:06] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: define "correctly"
[22:57:17] <NC|BestBuy> varnish is up
[22:57:24] * NC|BestBuy has no ****ing remote access
[22:57:48] <paulej72> mysql did not restart properly did on second try.
[22:58:09] <NC|BestBuy> paulej72: damn it. RIght, can you PM me the root password from neon from the master_password file, I can get in via lish
[22:58:13] <paulej72> NC|BestBuy: I am wrong The server quit without updating PID file (/opt/mysql-5.6.17-linux-glibc2.5-x86_64/data/neon.pid).
[22:58:29] <NC|BestBuy> Shit
[22:58:34] <NC|BestBuy> that means something is wrong with the config file
[22:58:37] <NC|BestBuy> ugh
[22:58:42] * NC|BestBuy is figuring out what he can do right now
[22:58:51] -!- ben [ben!~ben@awwjvuz.pw] has joined #Soylent
[22:58:56] <ben> Uh...
[22:59:01] <ben> sites down
[22:59:06] <NC|BestBuy> ben: we know :-)
[22:59:21] <NC|BestBuy> I need to go, I'll be back as quickly as possible
[22:59:25] -!- NC|BestBuy has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[22:59:54] <ar> 171808 | @ NerdRPG | John McCarthy, perturbed by kobach's jumble of brackets that was not worthy to be called either code or data, delayed him 5 days, 07:28:38 from level 53.
[22:59:57] <ar> ouch
[23:01:04] <stderr> 503 Service Unavailable
[23:01:04] <stderr> No server is available to handle this request.
[23:01:10] <stderr> Oh, well...
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[23:04:38] <NCommander> back up but limping
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[23:09:10] <michealpwalls> Hrmm
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[23:13:36] <Cyprus> you guys blow up slash?
[23:13:42] <n1> we are experiencing some turbulence right now, so please fasten your seat belt, normal service should be resumed shortly. :)
[23:14:50] FoobarBazbot is now known as FoobarBazbot|afk
[23:15:51] <michealpwalls> hehe
[23:18:56] <MrBluze> slash has unblown up.. i think
[23:20:11] <paulej72> slash is all better. It really does not like when it can’t connect to its db.
[23:21:55] <ben> What was the cause of the outage
[23:23:24] <Cyprus> sounds like the endeavors to make the DB HA, made it DOA
[23:23:32] <paulej72> Ncommander was setting up the db to be a master for replicaion that required that certain db checks be enabled. Unforunately slash was not set to work proplery with these check. We could not post new stories or submit new stories. Comments could be posted though.
[23:24:20] <NCommander> well more specifically we were replicated
[23:24:31] <paulej72> Upon trying to revert the db to its pervious state, we caused the db to go off line for a few minutes while we scrambled to figure out what went wrong
[23:24:46] <NCommander> I switched gitd mode to on to prepare for HA mysql setup
[23:25:03] <paulej72> And all of this was due to NCommander spilling a drink on his laptop :(
[23:25:14] <NCommander> there was no obvious break age but my laptop crapped out completely right afterward
[23:25:29] <ben> You guys are just using standard mysql master slave replication right?
[23:25:56] <NCommander> Ben: yes. but we upgraded to mysql 5.6 to use gitd to do hotfailovers
[23:26:11] <NCommander> old mysql fail over sucka
[23:26:13] <NCommander> sucks
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[23:29:41] <michealpwalls> mysql with gitd sounds cool for web developers on the move all the time (I.e: me LOL!) so that the data structure can follow you around to various development environments.
[23:29:49] <michealpwalls> I havent' heard of it for replication, though. That's interesting!
[23:30:39] <michealpwalls> I was looking into it last week, haven't got around to setting it up yet.. So all my web development environments have shoddy db setups that are all different LOL (But they all pull the latest code down from the repository). Meh
[23:30:41] <Cyprus> pffft transactional integrety, who needs that
[23:31:53] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Survey of Authors of Megajournal Papers - http://sylnt.us - now-if-someone-will-just-submit-some-of-them
[23:31:55] <ben> NCommander: It might suck, but it works for medium to large sized businesses, I fail to see why a HA aspect to it is needed, automatic failover to slave should definitely be a thing, but not sure how much the rest is necessary for an environment in 2014
[23:32:11] <ben> but YMMV and I have more opinions than dollars
[23:33:01] <michealpwalls> lol
[23:34:50] <NCommander> Ben: we can't do that easily w/o gitd
[23:35:14] <Cyprus> gitd?
[23:35:34] <NCommander> global I'd transaction s
[23:35:41] <Cyprus> ahhh
[23:35:43] <NCommander> I'm on my phone hard to type
[23:36:05] <michealpwalls> Oh fuck I thought you were talking about git (rofl)
[23:36:13] <michealpwalls> :)
[23:36:17] <Cyprus> side note, i might be switching jobs, so i may actually be able to help out around here soon
[23:36:39] <ben> NCommander: You guys don't need whatever it is you think you need
[23:36:46] ben is now known as poutine
[23:36:56] * Cyprus throws a rock at poutine
[23:37:46] poutine is now known as SoyGuest82400
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