#Soylent | Logs for 2014-04-15

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[00:00:07] <xlefay> This is where we plot to ruin your productivity while ruining your productivity.
[00:00:38] <Blackmoore> ah. well I'll go flog the gentlment over at OpenSSL as they left that damn thing open.
[00:00:51] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Buying Leniency for Speeding &amp; Fare Evasion - http://sylnt.us - rules-are-made-to-be-broken
[00:01:06] <xlefay> &amp;... honestly, deadbeef the cycle continues?
[00:01:12] <NCommander> xlefay, then we never got incorporated and you never get SoylentMoney
[00:02:47] <xlefay> The latest poll is somewhat depressing :~/
[00:02:59] <xlefay> SoylentMoney? Please tell me that's not cryptocurrency!
[00:03:20] <xlefay> https://soylentnews.org <-- will he?
[00:06:15] <kobach> oh hi
[00:09:42] <NCommander> .nick God
[00:09:48] <NCommander> ... whats the bot rename command?
[00:11:21] -!- Decoy_Walrus has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[00:14:40] <NCommander> I'm going off IRC for awhiel
[00:30:47] <stderr> xlefay: But you know why people don't suggest any domains.
[00:32:20] -!- kobach [kobach!~nope@SettleDownKids/Staff/IRC/kobach] has parted #Soylent
[00:33:34] <paulej72> xlefay: did you read this: https://chillax.soylentnews.org
[01:01:34] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - IPCC: Avoiding Climate Catastrophe Is Super Cheap - http://sylnt.us - problem-solved
[01:07:07] -!- michealpwalls has quit []
[01:15:22] -!- SoyCow9959 has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[01:46:27] -!- Blackmoore has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[01:54:11] <Teckla> NCommander: Thank you good sir
[02:05:51] crutchy|zzz is now known as crutchy
[02:10:10] <crutchy> soylentnews ~ soiled news ~ stream of defacation ~ fox news
[02:14:06] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #Soylent
[02:14:06] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[02:27:07] <paulej72> anyone home?
[02:27:20] <paulej72> it is quite, too quite.
[02:27:43] * paulej72 looks for aliens and preditors
[02:29:13] <crutchy> hi paulej72
[02:29:31] <paulej72> hi crutchy
[02:29:54] <crutchy> must be sleepy time in murica or something
[02:30:09] -!- SpallsHurgenson [SpallsHurgenson!~SpallsHur@oyue-78-589-544-038.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #Soylent
[02:30:21] <paulej72> have you looked at NCommander’s work on collapsible comments on dev.soylentnews.org
[02:30:21] <crutchy> either that or everyone been assimilated
[02:30:34] <crutchy> nah haven't seen it
[02:30:53] <crutchy> don't even know about dev.soylentnews.org :-P
[02:31:04] <paulej72> he redid the greasemonky script to work as a regular js script.
[02:31:20] <crutchy> cool
[02:31:58] * crutchy doesn't know anything about greasemonkey
[02:32:04] <paulej72> what is nice about that script, it can load missing comments on the fly by scraping a new page load.
[02:32:05] * crutchy googles
[02:32:15] <crutchy> ahh ajax :-)
[02:32:24] * SpallsHurgenson knows too much about greasy monkeys
[02:32:54] <crutchy> does it break the back button like most ajax?
[02:32:56] <paulej72> not ajax but full page scrape of the comment that may be hidden.
[02:33:04] <crutchy> iframe?
[02:33:20] <SpallsHurgenson> (good god, https://dev.soylentnews.org has an untrusted connection! they are trying to haxor my boxen! panic mode, panic! :)
[02:33:30] <juggler> balls hurgenson
[02:33:35] * crutchy reads again cos still waking up
[02:33:38] <paulej72> no the back button still works as the js loads the new page and gets the info. like a poor man’s ajax
[02:33:53] <NCommander> paulej72, well, I'm going to change it to an AJAX stub which just returns the dispComment header
[02:34:06] <NCommander> However, Ajax.pm is fucking terrorifying
[02:34:12] <paulej72> baby steps
[02:34:29] <NCommander> paulej72, it does fucking miracles for site usability
[02:34:42] <crutchy> i've never seen any kind of xhr-related thing not break the back button
[02:34:48] <paulej72> NCommander: I just made a pull request for a new collapsible_comment.js whit bigger icons.
[02:34:52] <crutchy> might be something to have a squiz at
[02:34:55] <NCommander> paulej72, checking
[02:35:05] <NCommander> crutchy, it works absolutely fine
[02:35:16] <paulej72> NCommander: I have it running on dev right now
[02:35:16] <crutchy> cool
[02:35:20] <NCommander> crutchy, beauty of adapting a GS script is that we know the basic HTML functionality works fine
[02:35:46] <crutchy> i've been looking for something that doesn't buttfuck the back button for my own project
[02:36:10] <NCommander> crutchy, https://dev.soylentnews.org - see if this meets your standard :-)
[02:36:33] <paulej72> NCommander: I was supprised how sophisticated that script was. I did not expect it to load missing comments on the fly.
[02:36:45] <crutchy> my standard is pretty low... as long as it works and isn't part of some demented framework :-P
[02:36:55] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm going to send a thank you note to the original author :-)
[02:37:28] <NCommander> paulej72, honestly, I think for future JS/AJAXing, I'm going to implement them as GS scripts to test, them port them server side. Always build HTML first, then build up. That way we know the site works properly ENOSCRIPT
[02:37:52] <paulej72> NCommander: that would be appropriate. I saw it was first created in 2008, probably thinks noone needs it anymore
[02:38:01] <NCommander> D2 broke it
[02:38:11] <NCommander> What's so pathetic is this is a million times better than D2
[02:38:50] <paulej72> Yes much better than D2 and easier to implement.
[02:39:11] <NCommander> I knew D2 was bad, but the code
[02:39:15] <NCommander> My brain, it burned
[02:39:26] <paulej72> NCommander: am I correct the collapsible_comments.js does not load any external frameworks.
[02:39:43] <NCommander> Nope It just does standard DOM/Xpath
[02:39:53] <NCommander> Pretty much a template on how to do future AJAXification of this site
[02:40:37] <paulej72> no need for a huge jquery load. :)
[02:40:49] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Open Rights Group: Monitoring Censorship - http://sylnt.us - watching-the-watchers
[02:40:52] <crutchy> eh... what is this sourcery
[02:41:01] <paulej72> for that at least. still need it for admin.pl
[02:42:21] <NCommander> No fucking kidding
[02:42:26] <NCommander> jquery - lets use it because we can
[02:42:51] <NCommander> I still want to get through and strip out as much JS as humanly possible
[02:43:06] <NCommander> If we can get the pageload to dialup friendly, I'll be bloody tickled
[02:43:47] <paulej72> NCommander: have you looked at this comment I made https://chillax.soylentnews.org
[02:44:44] <NCommander> paulej72, slash should work fine behind a loadbalancer. Linode can keep routing people to the same node
[02:44:59] <crutchy> looks pretty cool. nfi how it works but i like it
[02:45:32] <crutchy> looks like it only loads comment content for visible subject lines
[02:45:32] <NCommander> paulej72, and slashdot had multiple webfrontends
[02:45:40] <NCommander> Honestly, this isn't something I hugely expect to cause breakage
[02:46:16] <paulej72> NCommander: just keep it in mind if stuff does not work correctly
[02:46:31] <NCommander> paulej72, well initial plan is just to put hydrogen behind the loadbalancer
[02:46:38] <NCommander> Then look at getting the second web frontend up
[02:47:22] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm also going to bump the limit of comment levels to something higher than 7
[02:47:49] <paulej72> 10?
[02:48:45] <NCommander> probably 14
[02:48:57] <NCommander> Huh
[02:49:06] <NCommander> I'm not seeing "There are X replies under your current threshold"
[02:49:14] * NCommander can't tell if its a bug on his end or not
[02:50:35] * crutchy wonders if it might be driven by websockets or whatever that js implementation of sockets is called
[02:50:46] <paulej72> NCommander: no need for that it should just show the comments minimized
[02:51:44] <NCommander> crutchy, xmlPostRequest, aka standard AJAX
[02:51:52] <NCommander> Except it pulls comments.pl directly, then does some regex
[02:52:11] <crutchy> i thought xhttprequest broke the back button
[02:52:48] <NCommander> crutchy, define "break back button"
[02:53:12] <Bytram|away> Interesting!
[02:53:31] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[02:54:03] <Bytram> I normally run with scripts disabled, quite impressive!
[02:54:10] <crutchy> usually a xhr transaction adds to the browser history so when you click the back button it looks (from user perspective) to be broken
[02:54:23] <crutchy> anyway gtg. back later
[02:54:31] crutchy is now known as crutchy|afk
[02:55:35] <Bytram> I notice that when I click a [+] and the thread expands, the location of the [-] which appears is a few px to the right and down from where the [+] was because it is now within the comment's header bar...
[02:55:48] <paulej72> NCommander: I am seeing the x comments below your threshold. Need to fix this as these comments are hidden from the js. should come up as minimized instead
[02:56:18] <Bytram> Could there be a few px padding to the left of the [+] so that I can click *on the same place* and watch the comments expand/contract?
[02:56:48] <Bytram> Other than that, a few quick tests seemed to work fine. Well done!
[02:58:23] <crutchy|afk> from wikipedia: "Greasemonkey is a Mozilla Firefox extension that allows users to install scripts that make on-the-fly changes to web page content after or before the page is loaded"
[02:58:30] <crutchy|afk> hmm that kinda sounds like what its doing :-)
[02:58:49] <crutchy|afk> heard of greasemonkey but never bothered to look into it
[03:00:31] * SpallsHurgenson has been using his greasymonkey all wrong, then
[03:04:07] <SpallsHurgenson> (that would explain all those letters from the aspca)
[03:08:59] <Bytram> I don't like using absolute px measurements, but as a starting point can try adding these styles to keep the [+] and [-] from mocing left and right:
[03:09:00] <Bytram> div > img {padding-left: 8px} h4 > img {padding-left: 0px}
[03:09:31] <Bytram> s/mocing/moving/
[03:10:44] <paulej72> Bytram: not sure if i like the format of the collapsed comments i thnk they need more styling
[03:11:31] <paulej72> part of that formatting would fix the padding issue
[03:11:42] <Bytram> hmmm, it does lack a certain "polish"
[03:12:18] <Bytram> btw, my css selector knowledge is a little weak...
[03:12:51] <Bytram> with "div > img", my intents was to refer to the *first* img element *immediately* below* a "div" element.
[03:13:31] <Bytram> a little more playing around with the css snippet suggests a couple px top padding, too, when collapsed. so somehting like:
[03:13:43] <Bytram> div > img {padding-left: 8px; padding-top: 2px;} h4 > img {padding-left: 0px}
[03:14:10] <Bytram> that seems to keep the [+] and [-] from jumping around under my mouse cursor.
[03:15:34] <Bytram> unfortunately, the way it works with the selectors I offered, it puts padding before *every* image under the div, so each of the "clickables" has a left-padding. :/
[03:17:06] <paulej72> Bytram: I do not think that I would use that. I would make sure I could set the padding on ghe collapsed div directly.
[03:17:51] <Bytram> Hmm, yes, you're right! Much better idea!
[03:18:06] <paulej72> may need to updated the js script to add a class to that div
[03:19:00] <Bytram> like this? div.sict_closed {padding-left: 8px; padding-top: 2px;}
[03:19:11] <paulej72> yes
[03:19:39] <Bytram> yes, works MUCH better!
[03:19:58] * Bytram really likes firebug
[03:21:52] <Bytram> I wonder if it would be helpful to have some title text to explain what each "icon" does?
[03:22:10] <paulej72> faq
[03:22:30] <paulej72> yes could add title text as well.
[03:23:23] <Bytram> I know a title text would help the noob, bu I coud imagine it would get tiring quite quickly.
[03:23:32] <paulej72> need see how that is called in the js to see how easy it would be to add. The icons are loaded from one array
[03:23:55] <Bytram> I'm torn, and don't really want to toss yet-another preference into the mix.
[03:24:15] <paulej72> yes it would get kind of annoying
[03:24:15] <Bytram> we're nerds, I think we could do w/o title text.
[03:24:29] <paulej72> faq it
[03:24:33] <Bytram> b, is it n
[03:24:42] <Bytram> oops,
[03:24:48] <Bytram> faq is good.
[03:25:33] <Bytram> btw, is it necessary to send each image down multiple times as hard-coded base64 strings? that adds up to quite a bit of overhead.
[03:26:01] <Bytram> we should be able to make it work with a single copy of each image, right?
[03:26:07] <paulej72> the stings are in the js file and are small
[03:26:57] <paulej72> only sent when the js gets loaded
[03:27:54] <paulej72> https://github.com
[03:30:25] <Bytram> they may be "small" but the set of imgs in the div is over 1300 bytes, which is larger thatn many (most?) comments, themselves...
[03:31:24] <paulej72> but that is all done client side.
[03:32:02] <Bytram> So, at some point, it would be smaller to download all the comments, than it would be to download all the placeholder +/- stuff.
[03:34:13] <paulej72> Bytram: you are not downloading that much info. the higlighted lines in the code above are not theat many bytes and are downloaded onec and cached by the browser.
[03:35:37] <Bytram> so if I fired up wireshark and watched what came down the wire, I'd only see each image come done once?
[03:35:56] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~AndChat30@1.158.jwu.oqr] has joined #Soylent
[03:36:18] <paulej72> no you would see the js file come down onec, but only if your cache was cleared
[03:37:29] <paulej72> the github file I showed highlighs it gif images base64 encoded so that images are managed easier.
[03:37:50] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~b4c880f7@180.200.jji.ihy] has joined #Soylent
[03:38:07] <Bytram> Ahhhh, I get it now. excellent!
[03:38:32] <prospectacle> base64_inline_image_data++
[03:38:32] <deadbeef> karma - base64_inline_image_data: 1
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[03:39:07] <Bytram> I've played with those, myself, they can be *quite* handy
[03:39:26] <paulej72> works great on really small gif files. 70 bytes each on my Mac
[03:40:04] <Bytram> I needed a clear, single-bit gif (IIRC) and that was the easiest way to go.
[03:40:24] <prospectacle> for bonus points put all icons in one big image and display them by index/pixel-offset
[03:40:37] <prospectacle> if you're feeling bold
[03:40:42] <Bytram> prospectacle++
[03:40:42] <deadbeef> karma - prospectacle: 5
[03:44:03] <Bytram> i would cut down on a whole lot of roundtrips (with headers and replies) if all (most) images were in a single file, at the expense of flexibility and, I suspect, some intersting machinations in the code in order to access each one....
[03:44:37] <paulej72> prospectacle: I have done the offset stuff on one site I was working on. I inherited the site i believe or some such. i remember doing it, but none of the details. funny :(
[03:44:38] <Bytram> I suspect at some point the coding overhead could exceed any roundtrip savings of the initial load.
[03:45:21] <prospectacle> yes, the machinations are interesting, but they're not too complicated, you can use a background image with offsets, or, I can't remember the other options. There are plenty of tutorials around.
[03:45:31] <Bytram> ISTR using some css offsets to access the desired sub-image
[03:45:45] <paulej72> Bytram: using one large image file also helps with loading a page as it only has to pull one file not multiple small ones which saves bytes in overhead
[03:45:47] <prospectacle> Bytram, it isn't much code, you just need to keep a server-side array that knows where the images are, and spit out the offsets as a variable.
[03:46:23] <prospectacle> I mean you're right that it has pros as well as cons.
[03:46:23] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~446fd544@mj91-449-541-46.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #Soylent
[03:46:28] <prospectacle> But performance wise it's best-practice
[03:46:35] <Bytram> paulej72++ Yes, yes, a hundred times yes.
[03:46:35] <deadbeef> karma - paulej72: 15
[03:46:49] <paulej72> right now the site uses few images and we could probably make them one sinle file and do offsets
[03:46:49] <Bytram> prospectacle: that makes sense!!
[03:47:49] <Bytram> it bugs me to no end to reload a page and watch request after request with cookies and headers and all that for something that contains only 70 bytes; the overhead is greater than the content!!
[03:48:03] <prospectacle> definitely
[03:48:19] <Bytram> especially for a 1x1 gif!
[03:48:23] <Bytram> blegh!
[03:48:52] <prospectacle> This is what google load when you visit their homepage:
[03:48:53] <prospectacle> https://ssl.gstatic.com
[03:49:02] * SpallsHurgenson is pretty sure Adobe Flash is the answer :-)
[03:49:13] <Bytram> which reminds me, I haven't looked at thedailywtf in a long while.
[03:49:20] <Bytram> LOL!
[03:49:38] <prospectacle> i thought that real-time kaspersky globe with no flash was pretty cool
[03:50:02] * prospectacle can't wait for webgl to be a proper thing. Hihg-end games, etc
[03:50:13] <prospectacle> s/hihg/high/
[03:50:19] <prospectacle> whatever
[03:50:35] <Ethanol-fueled> prospectacle - as long as they don't nag you to download Chrome to do so.
[03:50:37] <Ethanol-fueled> hahahah
[03:50:39] <SpallsHurgenson> yeah, but no more easy flashblock either :)
[03:50:46] <Bytram> didn't get to play with it. was away from home and my aged mobile phone is not up to the task.
[03:50:50] * SpallsHurgenson punches the monkey
[03:51:49] <Bytram> getting back on track, the expand/collapse is pretty impressive.
[03:52:14] <Bytram> paulej72: would like to see the padding added to the div as we discussed so the "buttons" don't dance around.
[03:52:31] <Bytram> and, I need to get some sleep.
[03:52:44] <Bytram> nice chatting with you all; have a great night!
[03:53:03] <paulej72> Bytram: the code still does not work with comments below your threshold. Need to fix that first.
[03:53:12] <paulej72> good night Bytram
[03:53:14] <prospectacle> Ethanol-fueld lol, agree
[03:53:48] <Bytram> hmmm, that could be "interesting"! Good Luck!!
[03:54:23] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[03:54:36] <prospectacle> see ya bytram
[03:55:35] <prospectacle> Spalls, well no doubt someone will make an extension to block canvas elements (if you block images would that block canvas?)
[03:55:43] <prospectacle> I guess noscript could do it too
[04:00:08] <SpallsHurgenson> oh sure, but flashblock works so well.
[04:00:36] <prospectacle> Spalls, agree, it's an essential plugin. Flashblock + adblock = a better web for all
[04:00:46] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean, if we could get the advertisers to stick with flash while everybody moves over to webgl, that might work :)
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[04:01:14] <SpallsHurgenson> hmmm... and maybe anyone with an annoying video... or game... they need to stay with flash too :)
[04:01:18] <prospectacle> I mean the ad-networks don't want to waste their bandwidth serving me ads if it means I actively avoid their products. Better for them I don't see the ads in the first place. The site owner doesn't want to discourage traffic, either.
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[04:01:51] <prospectacle> Spalls, yes we should just make it that you're not allowed to use web-standard video or 3d graphics if your product is annoying. You have to stick with flash.
[04:02:22] <SpallsHurgenson> do we need a new RFC or should we just re-use the evil-bit?
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[04:03:28] <prospectacle> probably best to create a new standards body and give them ten or fifteen years to iron out the details.
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[04:04:02] <SpallsHurgenson> oh good, I like new standards
[04:08:32] <paulej72> something else to ignore with donottrack
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[04:11:51] <prospectacle> the good thing about canvas is it only uses the normal cookies, so you don't need a special plug-in to delete flash cookies.
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[04:37:39] <pbnjoe> Have we always been able to have two categories for summaries?
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[04:54:10] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mrcoolbp] by juggler
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[04:55:56] <NezSez> the webchat doesn't support https?
[04:56:05] <crutchy> is there an irc client that puts nick: into input text when you click a nick?
[04:56:35] <crutchy> hi nezsez. dunno. i only ever used it with regliar old http
[04:56:58] <NezSez> hola chrutchy
[04:57:16] <NezSez> s/chrutchy/crutchy/
[04:57:16] <SedBot> <NezSez> hola crutchy
[04:59:00] <NezSez> g'night crutchy
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[04:59:35] <crutchy> night
[05:00:35] <mrcoolbp> crutchy: I would love that feature
[05:00:45] * mrcoolbp kinda has a love/hate with mIRC
[05:01:36] * crutchy could try making one with delphi... it might even be usable in 10 years :-P
[05:02:19] * chromas would contribute
[05:06:05] * crutchy wonders what xchat is written in
[05:07:08] <crutchy> hmm c
[05:07:12] <mrcoolbp> http://xchat.org
[05:07:26] <crutchy> http://xchat.org
[05:07:34] <mrcoolbp> oh you're way ahead of me
[05:07:44] <mrcoolbp> I'm trying to post some stories to soylent
[05:08:30] <crutchy> hows the poll thing going?
[05:08:48] <crutchy> many names coming in?
[05:19:18] <mrcoolbp> we have around 20 I think
[05:29:37] <SpallsHurgenson> hmmm, to sleep or tostay up for the eclipse, that is the question
[05:31:47] <SpallsHurgenson> whether tis wise in mind to suffer the slings and arrows from a lack of sleep, or to stay awake through darkest night and, thusly, see an eclipse.
[05:32:03] <xlefay> morning
[05:32:34] <xlefay> NesSez: it's on the roadmap.. and you're gone lol
[05:34:00] <SpallsHurgenson> on the one hand, an opportunity to see a total lunar eclipse, which I haven't seen in decades... on the other, getting up in the morning is hard enough already...
[05:34:29] <SpallsHurgenson> and on the gripping hand, I probably won't see the eclipse anyway, what with smog and light pollution and clouds.
[05:35:10] <prospectacle> spalls, drive somewhere with a better view, and call in sick tomorrow
[05:35:18] <prospectacle> I'm sick of coming into work"
[05:35:45] <prospectacle> s/I'm/"I'm/
[05:35:45] <SedBot> <prospectacle> "I'm sick of coming into work"
[05:35:52] <SpallsHurgenson> there's only so many times I can catch ebola before they start suspecting something is amiss :)
[05:36:00] <prospectacle> lol
[05:36:43] <prospectacle> try the swine flu
[05:37:29] <SpallsHurgenson> that's not kosher!
[05:37:35] <mrcoolbp> prospectacle: hold that thought for 3 minutes
[05:40:07] <mrcoolbp> well it's almost relevant:
[05:40:24] <prospectacle> lol
[05:40:29] <prospectacle> bacon prices
[05:40:32] <mrcoolbp> yup
[05:42:06] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Bacon Prices on the Rise - http://sylnt.us - please-no-not-the-bacon
[05:42:58] <mrcoolbp> there we go
[05:43:10] <prospectacle> luckily I bought my yearly tonne of bacon just before christmas, so I should be right for a while.
[05:43:34] <SpallsHurgenson> that's not "bacon"; that's a whole pig
[05:43:49] <SpallsHurgenson> you can tell by the stains it leaves on the floor :)
[05:44:19] <prospectacle> Yes I've been meaning to ask the butcher about that
[05:44:56] <mrcoolbp> hah
[05:49:30] <swiss> i noticed the rise in bacon prices :(
[05:50:18] <mrcoolbp> I'd suggest: "Run for the hills!#@!"
[05:51:19] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[05:52:53] <prospectacle> Maybe if we had universal healtcare for pigs this kind of tragedy could be avoided
[05:53:53] <SpallsHurgenson> "I'm sorry Mrs. Swine, but you are obviously suffering from Hugeous Hamhocks Syndrome. We're going to have to carve them right out of you, but don't worry; you're insurance will cover it."
[05:55:32] * prospectacle imagines retired pigs running around on carbon-fiber blades
[05:57:54] <swiss> bacon++
[05:57:54] <deadbeef> karma - bacon: 220
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[06:02:04] <prospectacle> Wow, this game has crowd-funded 42 million dollars.
[06:02:05] <prospectacle> https://robertsspaceindustries.com
[06:02:15] * arti nods
[06:02:29] <arti> originally they were going to have a VC to supply the rest
[06:02:33] <arti> its no longer needed
[06:02:34] <SpallsHurgenson> at this rate, they'll soon have enough money to build a REAL spaceship :)
[06:02:48] <arti> the ships cost 30-70k a pop to design
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[06:03:02] <prospectacle> 42 million dollars
[06:03:04] * SpallsHurgenson wants something with an orion nuclear engine. I like big explosions :)
[06:03:04] <prospectacle> fucking hell
[06:03:09] <prospectacle> who needs VCs
[06:03:28] <prospectacle> I mean at all. Let's crowdfund a cure for cancer
[06:03:36] * arti is curious how the weapons will work in game
[06:03:38] <prospectacle> I'll pledge whatever level gets me a cool ribbon that says "I cured cancer"
[06:03:49] <arti> will you be able to take pot shots at someone 30km away etc.
[06:04:02] <prospectacle> arti, I guess so, 30km not so far in space
[06:04:13] * arti agrees
[06:04:18] <arti> i'm also curious how the targeting will work
[06:04:34] * arti is a backer for star citizen
[06:04:39] <SpallsHurgenson> aren't they going for a Wing Commander vibe, though? those weapons had ranges of a few thousand meters
[06:04:41] <prospectacle> from the demo i saw it can track better than it can target (which makes no sense), but maybe it had auto-aim off, or maybe it's just to make it more fun
[06:05:37] <SpallsHurgenson> (mass drivers, IIRC, were good to 3500m... neutron guns to 4200m. :)
[06:05:53] <arti> also, good evening sirs
[06:06:07] <prospectacle> hi
[06:06:31] <swiss> trying to figure out how to transport the front clip I'm gonna buy on Saturday... still not positive how I will do it
[06:06:51] <arti> is this some kind of car part?
[06:06:53] <SpallsHurgenson> to think I've wasted valuable brain matter storing that information all these years...
[06:07:09] <arti> SpallsHurgenson: meh, i've got plenty of rifts and robotech trivia
[06:07:20] <prospectacle> Spalls, you were just keep it warm for when something important came up
[06:07:23] <SpallsHurgenson> MegaDamage!
[06:07:28] <arti> indeed
[06:07:45] <arti> i'd like to put a campaign together, 1 hour or so online
[06:07:53] * arti would have a bot handle the dice rolls
[06:08:01] <arti> i've got one on another network all setup
[06:08:09] <SpallsHurgenson> actually, that's prett much all I remember about the Robotech RPG rules system :)
[06:08:16] * arti rolls for initiative
[06:08:36] <swiss> arti: chop the car at the dashboard
[06:08:45] <swiss> everything forward is the front clip
[06:08:58] <arti> ah
[06:09:15] <arti> front crip.
[06:09:24] <prospectacle> swiss I think you answered your own question
[06:09:40] <prospectacle> "chop the car at the dashboard"
[06:10:23] <prospectacle> Of course then you'll need to transport the old front-clip but I can't solve all of your problems for you
[06:12:04] <swiss> prospectacle: what?
[06:12:11] <SpallsHurgenson> once again, the solution to this problem, as it is with most of life's problems, is a giant catapult
[06:12:30] <prospectacle> well chop the old one off the front of your car, attach the new one and drive it wherever you want to go. Problem solved!
[06:12:35] <swiss> i'm buying a front clip from another car, and transporting it to my friend's place to put then engine in my car
[06:13:05] <swiss> it's not a small piece, and I don't have a forklift to take it out of the tranporting vehicle once we get to my friend's house.... so that's what i'm trying to figure out
[06:13:29] <prospectacle> oh. well in that case, see spalls' answer
[06:13:53] <swiss> lol
[06:14:06] <SpallsHurgenson> YES!
[06:14:09] <swiss> that might destroy the parts i want to pull out of the front clip i'm buying
[06:15:08] <prospectacle> do you have a ramp and a tow-bar?
[06:15:24] <SpallsHurgenson> you're not thinking catapulty enough; if a single catapult doesn't solve your problem, just add more catapults! One to launch it in the air, the other to gently catch it at the other end :)
[06:15:59] <swiss> prospectacle: no. also, it might not have the rotors on it, so i might not be able to put wheels on it.
[06:16:22] <prospectacle> swiss, from the wisdom of the internet I found: "I used a jack to jack up the clip, stuck a couple of furniture dollies underneath and slid the clip down the pull out ramp on the back of the uhaul box van we rented to transport the clip."
[06:16:41] <swiss> oh, cool
[06:16:44] <swiss> That might work
[06:17:33] <swiss> This is the best terrible idea in a while that i'll actually be carrying out
[06:18:21] <prospectacle> Well as long as you don't die, anything else you accomplish will be a bonus
[06:19:46] <prospectacle> Another option I read is get 12 friends and lift it
[06:20:57] <swiss> i don't have 12 friends that i trust
[06:21:02] <prospectacle> Who does
[06:23:11] <prospectacle> how much is a forklift for a day/
[06:23:14] <prospectacle> ?
[06:24:16] <swiss> i have no clue
[06:25:59] <prospectacle> oh well catapult then I guess
[06:26:29] <SpallsHurgenson> if catapults aren't your thing, I can instead suggest a lot of grease, some rollerskates, and a really long lever
[06:26:45] <prospectacle> or an elephant
[06:27:02] <swiss> SpallsHurgenson: what if i just smeared it in rubber and bounced it?
[06:27:11] <SpallsHurgenson> are you kidding? have you seen the rental rates on elephants?
[06:27:41] <prospectacle> Spalls, get together with a few neighbours who need some things moved around/trampled, and split the cost for the day
[06:31:20] <SpallsHurgenson> alternately, just slap a FedEx sticker on the side of the damn thing and let the PROFESSIONALS figure out how to move it :)
[06:31:41] <SpallsHurgenson> (note: using a catapult might cause less damage :)
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[06:39:51] <swiss> it's $400-500 to ship, and i'm not gonna do that for 12 miles
[06:40:27] <arti> they using strippers or something
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[07:41:37] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - MSFT Board Sued for $731M over Browser Choice Compliance - http://sylnt.us - What-me-worry?
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[08:42:54] <SirFinkus> can anyone see the eclipse?
[08:49:26] <swiss> i prob could if iwent outside
[08:49:31] <swiss> but i don't want to pants
[08:49:51] <SirFinkus> it's about to turn red
[08:51:42] <chromas> Looks thinner here than in the video
[08:51:57] <chromas> Farther west
[08:52:06] <SirFinkus> too cloudy here ;(
[08:52:12] <swiss> mb i'll check, i think i'm gonna get up and food in a sec
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[09:09:51] * arti has been watching it
[09:09:58] <arti> pretty cool :)
[09:11:09] <SirFinkus> I guess I'll have to wait for the next one
[09:11:24] <arti> neat how it flickered from the shadow
[09:12:34] <SirFinkus> https://twitter.com
[09:12:40] <SirFinkus> I like this pic
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[09:28:00] <keplr> hola
[09:29:38] <keplr> Place is dead, or hates Spanish.
[09:30:59] <chromas> Yep; it's the Spanish
[09:31:01] <chromas> :)
[09:31:13] <crutchy> hey
[09:31:18] <crutchy> i mean hola
[09:31:19] <ar> Noone expects the Spanish Inquisition
[09:31:37] * crutchy hopes i'm not announcing that i'm gay in a foreign language :-P
[09:31:44] <keplr> My Spanish is limited to ordering food.
[09:31:55] <chromas> crutchy: that would be "holla"
[09:32:06] <keplr> But I know enough German to orchestrate an invasion of Poland.
[09:32:20] <crutchy> soy una máquina sexual
[09:32:43] <crutchy> máquina del sexo
[09:32:48] <chromas> crutchy++
[09:32:48] <deadbeef> karma - crutchy: 49
[09:33:21] <SirFinkus> it's red outside, but I think that's light pollution
[09:34:22] <SirFinkus> eclipse + getting rejected for a job because of HR bullshit = good enough excuse for tequila
[09:34:52] <keplr> Der mond wird rot
[09:35:37] * SirFinkus is listening to Jex Thoth — The Divide, from the album Blood Moon Rise
[09:35:57] <SirFinkus> getting in the spirit
[09:36:55] <keplr> Ten more minutes before it reaches peak eclipse here
[09:39:12] <SirFinkus> ehh, I'll get the next one
[09:39:39] <SirFinkus> I'll miss the solar one in 2017 though, not far enough south
[09:39:56] <keplr> If you stay in the same place and wait long enough, you get a full lunar eclipse every 16 years
[09:40:13] <SirFinkus> maybe I'll make a road trip to Oregon if my I can get a friend to go with me
[09:40:30] <keplr> Where are you starting?
[09:40:57] <SirFinkus> washington
[09:41:08] <keplr> I lived there, Whidbey Island.
[09:41:12] <SirFinkus> still a several hour drive + hotel
[09:41:23] <SirFinkus> neat, I like it here
[09:41:28] <SirFinkus> live in Oly
[09:41:38] <keplr> There's no reason for anyone to go to that island
[09:41:43] <keplr> Unless you are in the Navy
[09:42:17] <keplr> It is beautiful, but so is most of The Sound.
[09:43:27] <keplr> I painted a mural of an orca whale which is still up in the marina on Whidbey Island.
[09:43:49] <keplr> Last I heard, anyway
[09:46:07] <keplr> I would like to go back there some day
[09:46:51] <keplr> I've lived all over the US and it's the best
[09:47:48] <SirFinkus> I'd love to move to Seattle at some point, but here is fine too
[09:48:30] <keplr> I've only been there once
[09:49:21] <keplr> Seemed liked an even more rainy, more depressing, San Francisco.
[09:50:06] <keplr> Although I love rain and depression so it's all relative
[09:50:13] <SirFinkus> only been to san francisco a few times, so I can't compare too much
[09:50:56] <keplr> Anyone who has the money to live there...lives there; which is why everyone who doesn't have the money to live there had to leave
[09:51:24] <SirFinkus> San Francisco always seemed a little depressing
[09:51:42] <SirFinkus> I don't mind rain, but fog is depressing
[09:52:11] <keplr> It's so amazing for a couple dozen days a year
[09:52:18] <keplr> I love it
[09:52:28] <SirFinkus> of course I haven't been there for a decade, so my memory may be a bit foggy
[09:55:01] <keplr> It's always foggy in SF
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[09:56:04] <SirFinkus> lol, I didn't even intend that
[09:56:37] <keplr> Can I talk about something personal?
[09:56:48] <SirFinkus> if you'd like
[09:56:56] <keplr> I don't want to get too real for you here
[09:57:00] <SirFinkus> uh oh
[09:57:20] * SirFinkus braces
[09:57:41] <keplr> My ex girlfriend is getting married
[09:58:17] <keplr> And I don't know what I am supposed to do
[09:58:43] <SoyCow3682> Do the Rick Dance http://tinypic.com
[09:58:44] <SirFinkus> are you still friendly with her?
[09:58:51] <keplr> Oh god no
[09:58:58] <SirFinkus> then why give a shit?
[09:59:51] <keplr> It's been three years since we've even talked online
[10:01:04] <crutchy> Van McCoy's "The Hustle" > https://www.youtube.com
[10:01:11] <crutchy> go on... you know you wanna :-P
[10:02:01] <keplr> It's just bizarre to see her getting married
[10:02:46] <keplr> To a PHILOSOPHER
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[10:03:12] <keplr> Biology not good enough!?
[10:03:16] <SirFinkus> yeah, shit's weird
[10:03:29] <SirFinkus> I made the mistake looking up people I knew in high school once
[10:03:37] <SirFinkus> never again
[10:03:52] <keplr> We met in JUNIOR high
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[10:05:58] <keplr> All this experience has taught me is that I hate reddit and Twitter.
[10:07:00] <SirFinkus> reddit is a bit lame
[10:07:09] <keplr> The real shock ended weeks ago. I'm just being dramatic.
[10:07:22] <SirFinkus> with twitter it really depends on who you follow
[10:07:30] <SirFinkus> I basically use it as a glorified rss feed
[10:07:41] <keplr> Yeah me too
[10:07:52] <SirFinkus> don't think I've "tweeted" once
[10:08:53] <keplr> Me neither
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[10:12:17] <crutchy> damn 70's music being so awesome
[10:13:51] <keplr> I like 4chan for late night ruminations. I know then that less bots are recording me--here even one is mine
[10:14:32] <crutchy> lol which one?
[10:15:05] <keplr> I'd rather note say
[10:15:08] <SirFinkus> can we have good 70s music instead? https://www.youtube.com
[10:15:17] <crutchy> hell yeah
[10:15:28] <crutchy> currently listening to bee gees "more than a woman"
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[10:20:36] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Jenny McCarthy Claims She Is Not Anti-Vaccine - http://sylnt.us - Backpedaling-Furiously
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[10:36:59] <swiss> wow
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[11:10:00] <arti> keplr, you should be happy
[11:10:13] * arti has had a few gfs get married
[11:10:27] <arti> they can be crazy with other people
[11:10:34] <arti> squeeze out crotch fruit
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[11:12:04] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[11:13:29] <SirFinkus> christ, it's so annoying trying to follow the situation in Ukraine, all the media is in full propoganda mode
[11:13:55] <arti> welcome to the empire
[11:14:50] <SirFinkus> RT is hilarious right now
[11:15:17] <arti> implying i'm not always :(
[11:15:36] <SirFinkus> russia today I mean
[11:15:54] <arti> oh, i knew that >.>
[11:16:00] <SirFinkus> figured
[11:16:24] <arti> are they discussing what bread is? and how potatoes make great liquor?
[11:16:30] * arti hides
[11:17:34] <SirFinkus> no, they're just talking about how right Russia is and how biased the western media is
[11:17:40] <SirFinkus> all the time
[11:17:47] <arti> usually between the two you get some truth
[11:17:57] <arti> apparently both sides have an agenda
[11:18:04] <SirFinkus> well, yeah
[11:18:18] <arti> maybe you can short some russian property!
[11:18:26] <arti> it'll be like bitcoin fluxuations
[11:18:32] <SirFinkus> although US media seems to mainly be focusing on other bullshit
[11:19:56] <arti> like the crash?
[11:20:05] <arti> WE HEARD SOME BEEPS!
[11:20:16] <arti> Would you like to know more? /obscure?
[11:20:44] <SirFinkus> I think the latest story is that rancher guy
[11:22:29] <SirFinkus> nah, still plane bullshit
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[12:17:31] <stderr> I think I have found a bug... http://soylentnews.org is not at "+5, Informative" yet...
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[12:22:11] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Statistical Analysis of Bob Ross's Paintings by 538 - http://sylnt.us - Happy-Little-Tß
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[12:23:23] <chromas> weather \
[12:23:24] <weather> Weather for "\" not found. Check spelling or try another nearby location.
[12:23:29] <chromas> aw
[12:24:15] <chromas> weather Robert'); DROP TABLE Students;
[12:24:22] <weather> Weather for "Robert'); DROP TABLE Students;" not found. Check spelling or try another nearby location.
[12:25:08] <stderr> weather right here
[12:25:12] <weather> Weather for Earp, CA US at 2014-04-14 04:01:00 (UTC) ~ 30.4 hrs ago:
[12:25:12] <weather> temperature = 84°F (28.9°C) dewpoint = -5°F (-20.6°C)
[12:25:12] <weather> barometric pressure = 1013.5 mb ~ change of -0.5 mb over past 0.3 hrs relative humdity = 2%
[12:25:12] <weather> wind speed = 3 mph (4.8 km/h) wind direction = 254°
[12:25:19] <stderr> BAHAHAHA!!!
[12:25:23] <crutchy> lol
[12:25:29] <crutchy> weather uranus
[12:25:31] <weather> Weather for Kodiak, AK US at 2014-04-15 06:19:00 (UTC) ~ 4.1 hrs ago:
[12:25:32] <weather> temperature = 39°F (3.9°C) dewpoint = 34.3°F (1.3°C)
[12:25:32] <weather> barometric pressure = 1009.1 mb ~ change of 0 mb over past 0.1 hrs relative humdity = 82%
[12:25:32] <weather> wind speed = 6 mph (9.6 km/h) wind direction = 325°
[12:25:43] <crutchy> weather alpha centauri
[12:25:46] <weather> Weather for Invermere, CA at 2014-04-15 09:58:00 (UTC) ~ 0.5 hrs ago:
[12:25:46] <weather> temperature = 32°F (0°C) dewpoint = 24°F (-4.4°C)
[12:25:46] <weather> barometric pressure = 1008.1 mb ~ change of 0 mb over past 0.3 hrs relative humdity = 71%
[12:25:46] <weather> wind speed = 0 mph (0 km/h) wind direction = 283°
[12:26:06] <crutchy> i have absolutely no idea how this search thing works
[12:26:17] <stderr> It doesn't!
[12:26:17] <crutchy> weather my anus
[12:26:19] <weather> Weather for "my anus" not found. Check spelling or try another nearby location.
[12:26:37] <stderr> weather or not
[12:26:37] <crutchy> lmao "nearby location"
[12:26:40] <weather> Weather for Springfield, OR US at 2014-04-15 09:57:00 (UTC) ~ 0.5 hrs ago:
[12:26:40] <weather> temperature = 48°F (8.9°C) dewpoint = 42.8°F (6°C)
[12:26:40] <weather> barometric pressure = 1024.3 mb ~ change of -0.1 mb over past 0.4 hrs relative humdity = 81%
[12:26:40] <weather> wind speed = 0 mph (0 km/h) wind direction = 277°
[12:27:08] <crutchy> weather nearby location
[12:27:11] <weather> Weather for "nearby location" not found. Check spelling or try another nearby location.
[12:27:19] <stderr> weather another nearby location
[12:27:20] <weather> Weather for "another nearby location" not found. Check spelling or try another nearby location.
[12:27:34] <crutchy> weather stderr
[12:27:36] <weather> Weather for "stderr" not found. Check spelling or try another nearby location.
[12:27:41] <stderr> Broken bot! I did try "another nearby location"!
[12:27:52] <crutchy> yeah who the hell wrote it!
[12:27:57] <crutchy> moron
[12:28:07] <crutchy> probably used globals
[12:28:09] <crutchy> :-P
[12:28:18] <stderr> weather CPH
[12:28:22] <weather> Weather for Koebenhavn / Kastrup, Denmark at 2014-04-15 09:50:00 (UTC) ~ 0.6 hrs ago:
[12:28:23] <weather> temperature = 48.2°F (9°C) dewpoint = 33.8°F (1°C)
[12:28:23] <weather> barometric pressure = 1018 mb ~ change of -1 mb over past 0.5 hrs relative humdity = 57%
[12:28:23] <weather> wind speed = 16 mph (25.6 km/h) wind direction = 360°
[12:29:08] <crutchy> !grab chromas
[12:29:08] <deadbeef> Added quote 118
[12:29:59] <stderr> !grab Robert'); DROP TABLE quotes; --
[12:29:59] <deadbeef> I don't think that's a nick....
[12:30:05] <stderr> :-/
[12:30:24] <crutchy> lol
[12:30:35] <crutchy> are you trying to kill deadbeef?
[12:30:58] <stderr> No, just the quote db.
[12:30:58] <crutchy> again
[12:31:20] <stderr> No, just the quote db.
[12:31:24] <crutchy> !grab die();
[12:31:24] <deadbeef> I don't know what die(); said, so I can't quote them!
[12:31:25] <chromas> !grab deadbeef
[12:31:25] <deadbeef> I don't know what deadbeef said, so I can't quote them!
[12:31:43] <chromas> !quote deadbeef
[12:31:43] <deadbeef> No quotes found with the text 'deadbeef'
[12:31:52] <chromas> !quote grab
[12:31:52] <deadbeef> No quotes found with the text 'grab'
[12:31:58] <crutchy> !grab exec sudo shutdown -f
[12:31:58] <deadbeef> I don't think that's a nick....
[12:32:51] <chromas> !grab '; sudo make me a sammich && \
[12:32:51] <deadbeef> I don't think that's a nick....
[12:32:56] <crutchy> !quote chromas
[12:32:56] <deadbeef> Quote 111 - <chromas> I heard CentOS thrown around a lot. I believe it was NCommander's favorite
[12:33:00] <deadbeef> Also in quotes: 118
[12:33:03] <xlefay> lol
[12:33:14] <crutchy> :-D
[12:34:03] <stderr> xlefay: I think you forgot to remove 12 hours from my irpg clock...
[12:34:42] <chromas> While you're at it, I'll take a level*=10
[12:34:55] <chromas> ;
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[12:35:06] <xlefay> Yeah, sorry, not going to do that ;)
[12:35:34] <chromas> cowsay xlefay
[12:35:43] <chromas> not in here huh
[12:35:58] <crutchy> just tweaking
[12:36:07] <crutchy> couple of minutes :-)
[12:36:12] <xlefay> let's not throw cowsays and such in here, be a bit spammish no? :)
[12:36:23] <chromas> true
[12:36:26] <crutchy> yeah
[12:36:27] <chromas> /spam xlefay
[12:36:31] <stderr> crutchy: s/a/r/
[12:36:32] <SedBot> <stderr> <crutchy> yerh
[12:36:38] <xlefay> chromas, I raise you /kill
[12:36:41] <stderr> Damn, too late...
[12:36:50] <crutchy> i think i've got it set to spam xlefay's private establishment :-)
[12:37:07] <xlefay> that's fine, I don't particularly care about ## anymore anyway
[12:37:17] <xlefay> that's the kobachian empire nowadays
[12:37:23] <crutchy> wasn't referring to ##
[12:37:30] <crutchy> ;-)
[12:37:34] <xlefay> oh that other test channel that's fine
[12:37:42] <xlefay> It's a test channel after all :P
[12:37:52] <chromas> There's always ###
[12:37:58] <chromas> just add another #
[12:38:12] <xlefay> LOL
[12:38:16] <xlefay> # is registered to Alberto
[12:38:26] <xlefay> if Alberto's nick expires, it'll be crutchy's channel
[12:39:16] <chromas> /kick alberto :)
[12:39:42] <chromas> Did the channel limit get raised?
[12:39:53] <xlefay> yeah.. it was set to a ridiculously low amount
[12:40:02] <chromas> Woohoo! Now I can be in all
[12:40:06] <chromas> Except the special ones
[12:40:10] <xlefay> up to 300 even!
[12:40:17] <chromas> Is that all?!!
[12:40:41] <xlefay> Well, I suppose I could set it to 3000 but with so few channels here, that'd be rather unneeded no? :)
[12:41:08] <chromas> /j #bacon1 #bacon2 #ba
[12:45:28] <xlefay> weather xlefay
[12:45:32] <weather> Weather for Leeuwarden, Netherlands at 2014-04-15 10:25:00 (UTC) ~ 0.3 hrs ago:
[12:45:32] <weather> temperature = 46.4°F (8°C) dewpoint = 35.6°F (2°C)
[12:45:32] <weather> barometric pressure = 1027 mb ~ change of 0 mb over past 0.3 hrs relative humdity = 65%
[12:45:32] <weather> wind speed = 15 mph (24 km/h) wind direction = 350°
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[15:11:16] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Toyota Replaces Robots with Humans - http://sylnt.us - Temporary-Reprieve
[15:36:46] -!- Blackmoore [Blackmoore!~4028ef96@64.40.xqg.gvs] has joined #Soylent
[15:37:01] <Blackmoore> who's been ruining my bacon?
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[15:52:47] <crutchy|zzz> night soylent
[16:00:27] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[16:05:52] <Blackmoore> Wish I had a decent webcam. from looking at todays stories I would assume to make a killing making paintings of happy little bacon.
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[16:50:31] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - The GNOME Foundation is Running Short on Money - http://sylnt.us - GNO-Love-for-GNOME
[16:54:26] <SirFinkus> oh boy
[16:54:30] * SirFinkus grabs popcorn
[17:01:21] <Blackmoore> Why would you hire 30 interns?!?
[17:07:41] -!- mrcoolbp [mrcoolbp!~mrcoolbp@Soylent/Staff/mrcoolbp] has joined #Soylent
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[17:08:20] <paulej72> Blackmoore: you do not necessarly pay interns so more can be better
[17:14:30] <Cyprus> people pay interns
[17:14:31] <Cyprus> ?
[17:15:31] <Cyprus> i thought the whole point of interns was to abuse the employment laws because no one actually enforces the provision requiring them to be learning as opposed to working for free
[17:17:14] <Blackmoore> it isnt just a matter of paid or unpaid - the cost of an intern is the time that you have to put into them to get them up to speed
[17:18:00] <Blackmoore> my workplace DOES pay interns. but we only have 4-5 of them, like one in a dpartment of hundreds of employees
[17:18:50] <Blackmoore> so the intern gets the benefit of having many people to learn from, and the business doesnt tie one person up with training interns
[17:19:27] <Blackmoore> but yeah Cyprus - lot of places do abuse the concept
[17:19:29] <Cyprus> meh you get sr interns to train interns with documentation
[17:19:40] <Cyprus> only cost is air conditioning
[17:19:58] <Blackmoore> eh. no. that's like making a clone of a bad clone.
[17:20:09] <Blackmoore> it will only get worse
[17:20:27] <Cyprus> if you're willing to use free labor, do you really care about quality that much on the project that cant be fixed with spot checking?
[17:21:00] <Cyprus> generally the interns are better than on staff anyway
[17:21:23] <Blackmoore> depends on what they are doing. we have a lot of work that they can do here. but if i was writing software - i might choose a closer inspection of that thought
[17:21:32] <Cyprus> they're still worried about how you report them for the credit, and they are guarenteed to be college level
[17:21:58] <Blackmoore> college != on the job experience
[17:22:00] <Cyprus> if you're using them for tasks that aren't skilled, its free
[17:22:16] <Cyprus> like we had some redo the wiring in a datacenter
[17:22:23] <Blackmoore> if your tasks need that little skill - it gets outsourced.
[17:22:23] <Cyprus> it looked beautiful when they were done
[17:23:30] <Blackmoore> well I'm glad they could do that - we have a contractor that comes in to do that. cabling is immaculate.
[17:23:41] <Cyprus> probably costs a lot too
[17:24:07] <Blackmoore> it was part of an upgrade. but yeah it probably did.
[17:24:20] <Cyprus> small companies abuse the heck out of interns
[17:25:10] <Blackmoore> large ones too. I've read stories from some of them in big fortue 500 companies that made me weep.
[17:25:43] <Blackmoore> interns that never got training promised, and just had to fetch and carry for someone
[17:25:45] <Cyprus> usually the big companies don't as much, they go for the h1bs for that
[17:26:11] <Cyprus> have to pay them but they're basically indentured, never have to worry about them going somewhere else. So they're worth training
[17:26:40] <Blackmoore> h1b's are usually programmers. they have a skill set (in theory) and get indentured. or used like tissues; discarded after 6 months
[17:27:02] <Cyprus> nah, a lot of programmers are them, but they are everything
[17:27:32] <Blackmoore> we have a project that is generations behind because the boss (at the inception) decided to use h1b's
[17:27:34] <Cyprus> we just lost a guy here who finally got his green card after 10 years
[17:27:53] <Cyprus> was just a team lead, no reason it couldn't have gone to a local
[17:27:59] <Blackmoore> they go through these guys, and noone has a clue what they are working on
[17:28:13] <Blackmoore> even the lead on that team is h1b.
[17:28:32] <Cyprus> yeah thats the accenture model, that's a waste of a perfectly good h1b
[17:28:49] <Blackmoore> (i just bitch and say scrap the program, and the h1b's and hire local to start over)
[17:28:56] <Cyprus> oh i agree, its a big scam
[17:29:13] <Cyprus> the only shortage in tech work is the pay that's offered
[17:30:09] <Blackmoore> yup.
[17:30:43] <Cyprus> they just want to make the field cheaper, hence the h1b and push to make people graduate into it
[17:31:02] <Blackmoore> frankly i looked t that software 7 years ago and decided that i could write a better one, while learning a new language, and i havent written code in near 20 years.
[17:31:04] <Cyprus> most people leave the industry for better pay
[17:31:32] <Blackmoore> yeah. i left because i would not write for windows.
[17:31:50] <Cyprus> its not a lack of skill, its a lack of desire to be a serf when you can easily be many other things with your ability level and make way more
[17:33:14] <Blackmoore> when i started writing software was more like writing poetry. it's a skill, and an art. When windows came along it was more like trying to make art out of Duplos.
[17:33:48] <Blackmoore> sure i guess you can do it. but i just didnt want to .
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[17:52:15] <mrcoolbp> Blackmoore: I take it by your email that you don't need rejection-reasons?
[17:53:46] <Teckla> Cyprus: In my opinion, the place I work abuses H-1B visas, too. They'll pass over a dozen U.S. citizens ("eh, just don't like his personality, doesn't seem like a good fit") and then choose the H-1B applicant.
[17:55:46] <Teckla> I think it's part of a long-term country-wide plan to reduce compensation for software developers to much lower levels.
[17:56:36] <SirFinkus> hmm, legit? https://www.youtube.com
[17:59:22] <SirFinkus> oh, nevermind
[17:59:36] <SirFinkus> syrian
[18:00:58] <MrBluze> syrian?
[18:01:04] <MrBluze> could be anywhere i guess
[18:01:42] <SirFinkus> it's syrian, found the source video
[18:02:09] <MrBluze> ok
[18:02:45] <MrBluze> war is awful .. orphaning kids, widowing women, waste of everything
[18:07:45] <SirFinkus> this is some cold war shit right now, it's annoying how much propaganda and bullshit is flying around right now
[18:12:20] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|zzzzz
[18:15:33] <Blackmoore> mrcoolbp: unless you are rejecting ny submission for some odd editorial reason - nah. I expect rejections.
[18:15:43] <mrcoolbp> cool
[18:16:49] <Blackmoore> and I'm frequently in here (since i'm starved for conversation during the day) if you need more detail, i'll hunt it down. just ask.
[18:18:20] <Blackmoore> Teckla: I'm sure you are right. it's about wage supression. not availability.
[18:23:11] <TK> god forbid you interact with the people in your immediate surroundings
[18:24:03] <Blackmoore> I'd love to.
[18:24:25] <Blackmoore> and on the rare occasion it actually happens
[18:25:22] <TK> Don't mind me, I'm actually enjoying my peace and quiet at tthe moment
[18:26:08] <TK> Much more productive this way, even with the occassional soylent break
[18:26:30] <Blackmoore> I don't mind it - just too much of it lately.
[18:26:59] <Blackmoore> liek last night when i was basically alone in the office for 4 hours.
[18:27:22] <Blackmoore> chained to the phone that didnt ring
[18:27:27] <TK> The only time when you can throw a tennis ball at the wall without ticking someone off
[18:27:42] <SirFinkus> http://www.theonion.com
[18:27:45] <SirFinkus> heh
[18:27:55] <Blackmoore> *sigh* cubicles
[18:28:08] <TK> those soft walls that just absorb the shock?
[18:29:15] <TK> Try the Fox Moulder technique: sharpen pencil and throw it such that it sticks into the ceiling
[18:29:31] <SirFinkus> sounds like my middle school
[18:30:47] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - IRS Seizing Tax Refunds To Pay A Relative's Debt - http://sylnt.us - Sins-of-the-Father-Visited-upon-the-Son
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[18:32:16] <Blackmoore> http://www.theonion.com
[18:36:29] <TK> I can't remember the term for it, but there's a "divorce from your parents" legal procedure, could this be used to get out that kind of situation?
[18:36:41] Blackmoore is now known as Blackmoore|lunch
[18:37:18] <Blackmoore|lunch> @TK if you can afford to take the IRS to court..
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[18:43:36] <mrcoolbp> hi mattie_p!
[18:43:43] <mrcoolbp> how's the wee one?
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[18:44:25] <mattie_p> might be coming home today!
[18:45:01] <mrcoolbp> yay!
[18:45:13] <mattie_p> I know right? 2 weeks after the accident
[18:45:15] <mattie_p> takes a while
[18:45:38] <mrcoolbp> yeah jeez
[18:46:49] * mrcoolbp is working on a post to the main page
[18:47:04] <mattie_p> oh, nifty
[18:51:22] <TK> I didn't get the site name email, despite checking the appropriate box, and getting the daily newsletter emails
[18:51:27] <TK> Not in spam, either
[18:51:33] <TK> (gmail account)
[18:52:07] <TK> If I uncheck "willing to vote", safe my preferences, then switch back and save, will it send?
[18:52:24] <TK> He asked before trying it anyway
[18:59:30] <mrcoolbp> I think not TK
[18:59:49] <mrcoolbp> I'm going to provide a way for you to submit a name, but you will unfortunately not be able to vote
[19:00:55] <TK> :(
[19:00:58] <mrcoolbp> TK: PM me your email address, I can check to see if you were added to the list
[19:02:02] <mrcoolbp> TK: recieved, I'll check the master list, if it's in there, I'll contact you, otherwise you are out of luck, sorry.
[19:02:57] <TK> thanks
[19:03:09] <TK> I can tolerate not voting
[19:04:48] <mrcoolbp> if you just want to make a name suggestion, send it off to suggestions@soylentnews.org
[19:05:07] <mrcoolbp> as for the voting, you probably missed out on this one, sorry
[19:05:32] <mrcoolbp> (I still have to check the list though)
[19:06:27] <mrcoolbp> stderr: I'm clarifying the criteria, feel free to submit any name suggestions that aren't available in all TLDs
[19:06:55] <stderr> Ok, I might.
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[19:56:04] Blackmoore|lunch is now known as Blackmoore
[19:57:38] <Blackmoore> mattie_p: good to hear she's doing better. take care of her - they grow up so damn quick.
[20:01:56] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - TrueCrypt Audit Shows No Backdoors or Malicious Code So Far - http://sylnt.us - too-good-to-be-true
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[20:31:18] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Clarifying Some Points on the Name Vote - http://sylnt.us - details-are-important
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[20:37:03] <mrcoolbp> TK: sorry, you did not make it into the system for this vote, feel free to send in suggestions though
[20:37:17] <arti> heh
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[20:58:57] <TK> +mrcoolbp: unfortunately "backslash.org" is already taken
[20:59:13] <TK> That was the only +1 insightful suggestion I had ever had
[20:59:20] <arti> how about slashbacklash.org
[20:59:54] <TK> lol
[21:00:28] <TK> backlash.org has already been camped
[21:00:47] <TK> but yours is available
[21:04:25] <Cyprus> its too bad devnull is gone as well
[21:06:12] * Teckla is perfectly happy with SoylentNews
[21:06:24] <Teckla> Anything else is fine too, though
[21:07:41] <Cyprus> deny.org is taken as well, but i used to work with the owner
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[21:08:18] <TK_> weird
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[21:08:52] <n1> my only reservation about keeping SoylentNews is the 'joke' will hinder community growth, in my opinion
[21:09:08] -!- TK_ [TK_!~9ff52002@159.245.ju.y] has joined #Soylent
[21:09:19] <TK_> still weird
[21:09:39] -!- TK has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[21:09:52] <TK_> there we go
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[21:21:57] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - US College Enrollment Drops - http://sylnt.us - we-dont-need-no-education
[21:22:03] <Blackmoore> what's wrong TK?
[21:23:02] <TK> The irc web client stalled
[21:23:05] <TK> that's all
[21:23:50] * Teckla wishes the web client would allow hiding/cloaking of IP address
[21:24:02] <Blackmoore> @n1 i get that; but it still needs to be catchy too. NerdNews? (who wants to admit that?) ITNews? (meh)
[21:24:51] <Blackmoore> DrunkenMonkeyNewws? now that I'll emember.
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[21:25:12] <TK> I would think nerdnews would already be taken
[21:25:25] <TK> SoiledGreenNews
[21:25:29] <TK> GreenNewsandHam
[21:25:58] <TK> There might be something to that last one
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[21:33:34] <cykros> dammit, i hate power failures. not only did i get the nice fat penalty for idlerpg, it also managed to wreak havoc with my modules being loaded at boot, so I was without X...one of these days i'll memorize "ulimit -n"
[21:33:41] <arti> :(
[21:33:56] <cykros> or better yet, one of these days i'll get with the times and get a UPS :-)
[21:33:58] <arti> cykros, use a bouncer :D
[21:34:08] <arti> off of your vps :P
[21:34:27] <cykros> arti: heh, my uptime on this box is usually good enough that it serves the role a vps would
[21:34:30] <cykros> so i don't have a vps
[21:34:41] <cykros> but the wind today is insane and trees are dropping
[21:34:46] <arti> northwest?
[21:34:49] <cykros> northeast
[21:34:55] <arti> ah, i don't miss wind storms heh
[21:35:19] <arti> beautiful country though, i've migrated to a drier climate
[21:35:42] <cykros> i do have a free shell that i've used for some things, but lack of background processes being allowed kind of puts a damper on running a bouncer. i suppose i could grab the free tier ec2 from amazon, but i haven't had a good reason to use that free year trial yet
[21:36:04] <arti> for ~ $6 you can get a vps
[21:36:10] <Landon> you'll want to note that free tier ec2 has _strict_ cpu limits
[21:36:25] <arti> landon: does running a bouncer count as heavy cpu?
[21:36:28] <arti> if so, they're doomed
[21:36:37] <Landon> yeah
[21:36:39] <Landon> but just saying
[21:36:41] <arti> "oh you want quick hd space too, that's a paddlin' er payin'"
[21:36:55] <Landon> if you have any longer running processes that might use some CPU, say indexing logs or whatever
[21:37:01] <Landon> you'll get throttled down to 5%
[21:37:22] <arti> this is probably response to bitcoin folk
[21:38:54] <cykros> hrm, good advice to hear
[21:39:23] <cykros> like i said, usually this box IS my private server. my uptime usually gets to a couple of months between reboots anyway
[21:39:44] <cykros> and usually then it's not a power failure so much as the nephew coming over and really wanting to press the blue button...
[21:39:53] <arti> lol
[21:39:57] <arti> *poke*
[21:40:08] <arti> WWWWWHHHHHHhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrr....
[21:40:23] <cykros> it's not so much the cost of a vps that's deterred me as the whole "i really don't think i'll ever use this..."
[21:40:34] * arti likes them for several things
[21:40:44] <cykros> if i cared to run my own mail service i'd get one
[21:40:53] <Landon> http://jazzpractices.wordpress.com the comments just make me cringe hard
[21:41:00] <arti> additional ips for vpn, downloading stuff quickly from places, streaming things
[21:41:12] <Landon> my VPS is pretty much website and mail
[21:41:24] <arti> then you get another one to do your mirroring :D
[21:41:39] * arti loves rsync
[21:42:50] <cykros> i'd love to get some syncing set up for my boss at work...(restaurant). we change our menu way too often and she never remembers to update the website
[21:43:32] <cykros> hell, i told her straight out that while i don't usually condone dropbox, it's not like a menu is private (hell, we just want it publicly advertised anyway), and that it'd be the most painless way that i can think of...dropbox on the webhost, dropbox on her office computer, problem solved.
[21:43:54] <cykros> but, haven't had the time to sit down to do that, and i don't have any credentials to get into the webhost to do it myself
[21:44:14] * cykros just gets to be the one the customers complain to because our menu is out of date
[21:46:05] <Landon> hm
[21:46:09] <Landon> that's actually a pretty neat idea
[21:46:13] <Landon> dropbox connection to the server
[21:46:18] <Landon> dead simple
[21:46:20] <cykros> yep
[21:46:44] <cykros> like i said, i'm not generally a fan of dropbox, but it's by far the least amount of work to solve that problem
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[22:18:18] <Teckla> dropbox + condi = unsubscribe :(
[22:23:58] <cykros> eh, i'm not sure what the big deal is there outside of symbolic boycott
[22:24:07] <cykros> dropbox isn't exactly known for being big on privacy
[22:24:41] <cykros> they might wish they were, but anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knew that privacy and dropbox are pretty antithetical to each other. either encrypt locally before uploading, or make sure it's something you'd just as soon "back up" to the front page of the new york times
[22:25:01] <cykros> and frankly, that goes for any cloud storage provider anyway.
[22:25:17] <cykros> whether or not they're encrypting, if you're not, it should be considered compromised.
[22:26:04] <Blackmoore> hey - some ass is posting the same off topic plea for Linux Advocates in all threads.
[22:27:04] <Teckla> cykros: Hopefully, someday, encrypt-on-the-client-side will be the default for all the major players
[22:27:26] <cykros> i've seen some good how-tos for easily just using a truecrypt container inside a dropbox folder
[22:27:44] <cykros> seemed the most reasonable way to do things to me, though i'd be curious to hear if anyone knows that to not be such a good idea
[22:27:45] <Teckla> Yeah, TrueCrypt is great. I couldn't live without it. :)
[22:27:57] <cykros> you saw that phase 1 of the audit results came in, right?
[22:28:06] <n1> Blackmoore, i've made the point in #staff . I'm for downmodding those comments now as they are clearly spam, although I don't have any mod points right now.
[22:28:07] <cykros> nothing malicious found, though as expected, a few minor bugs here and there
[22:28:17] <Teckla> I would like to use a TrueCrypt container + Google Drive, but Google Drive doesn't support delta syncing. :(
[22:28:20] <cykros> so glad it's being audited
[22:28:40] <cykros> and apparently it's only $80k to audit...i suspect that's like, a matter of a few quarters per user
[22:29:05] <cykros> i'd kind of like to see more free security software really pushing for a donation to an audit fund on a download page.
[22:29:10] <cykros> not like, obnoxiously pushing
[22:30:48] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - British MP Regrets Supporting Legal Aid Cuts - http://sylnt.us - a-mile-in-someone-else's-shoes
[22:31:37] <Blackmoore> n1: thanks. I do with there was some way to just flag it as spam, and then have someone take a look and ban the address.
[22:36:35] <cykros> i wonder how much mileage TorrentFreak is going to get out of "Game of Thrones sets new torrent swarm record" every time a new episode comes out
[22:36:54] <cykros> so far, 2 episodes this season, both have gotten their article pointing to the new record :-P
[22:37:09] <cykros> and there were certainly a good few in prior seasons as well
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[23:41:42] <deadbeef> [SoylentNews] - Air Canada Allowed E-Cig Use on Flight - http://sylnt.us - time-for-new-legislation
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[23:45:26] <i3> website gettign a new name? bum.ma
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[23:53:28] <NCommander> ARGH, I want to setup a minecraft server with this (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/traincarts/) so badly
[23:59:05] <Cyprus> heh that's cool