#Soylent | Logs for 2014-03-26

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[00:00:16] <pbnjoe> Yes
[00:00:16] <Cyprus> that could be intresting
[00:00:23] <Cyprus> like SecondLife, but creepy
[00:00:31] <n1> what is Oculus VR
[00:01:00] <pbnjoe> the company that is making the Oculus Rift, an apparently really good VR headset, ages ahead
[00:01:06] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Google's Bold Plan - http://sylnt.us - we-want-nothing-less-than-world-domination
[00:01:08] <pbnjoe> it was going to be mainly used for gaming, but now...
[00:01:42] <pbnjoe> you get to get your feed in 3D while FB tracks your eye movement
[00:01:44] * pbnjoe grumbles
[00:02:11] <n1> ah
[00:02:13] <pbnjoe> or something like that, I'm sure
[00:02:17] <n1> thanks
[00:02:20] <pbnjoe> it looked really good :(
[00:02:30] <n1> another thing that you wont be able to use, until you "sign in with facebook"
[00:02:44] <pbnjoe> http://www.rockpapershotgun.com
[00:02:46] <n1> even when you bought the hardware and are using it on something non-facebook
[00:02:53] <Cyprus> sweet
[00:03:13] * pbnjoe is now bummed out
[00:04:22] <n1> it does seem to be how business works now more than ever, come up with an idea, get some investors, build company profile, sell to a multi-national
[00:04:44] <n1> and maybe a couple years after that, the product might make it to market
[00:05:42] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[00:06:26] <pbnjoe> I don't like that
[00:06:39] <pbnjoe> but what can I do, I can't just toss around two billion like it seems they can
[00:06:58] <n1> i dont like it either, but its all i see now
[00:07:10] <n1> companies arnt successful, until theyve been bought for $*bn by another company
[00:07:34] <n1> and the fact we talk about companies in the billions, when they havnt actually produced anything, or have a viable business model
[00:07:38] <n1> just blows my mind
[00:07:48] <MrBluze> centralization of power is the object of both communism and capitalism
[00:07:52] <MrBluze> its not surprising
[00:08:02] <n1> MrBluze, well said
[00:08:24] <MrBluze> n1 both invented by the same crowd
[00:08:36] <Cyprus> ummm, FB has viable business model
[00:08:42] <Cyprus> they're making money hand over fist
[00:08:50] <n1> what got me a while ago is the fake spin they put on it, to make it seem like the people selling their companies are pioneers of a new generation of business
[00:10:05] <n1> i dont know about the specifics of facebook, they might make money, but they dont produce anything
[00:10:25] <Cyprus> they are making half a billion a year...
[00:10:28] <Cyprus> in profit
[00:10:34] <Cyprus> the sales are 2+ billion
[00:10:49] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[00:10:57] <n1> what are they selling?
[00:11:03] <Cyprus> you
[00:11:17] <n1> indeed
[00:11:48] <n1> thats the point though, they're worth however many billions, yet they dont produce anything or create, they are a platform in which others hope to buy and or sell you
[00:12:11] <n1> a multibillion dollar middleman where no other side actually seems to benefit from it
[00:12:18] <Cyprus> ok, what do banks produce?
[00:12:37] <n1> 'financial services and instruments'
[00:12:39] <n1> which is no better
[00:12:40] <Cyprus> what do stock brokers produce
[00:13:23] <n1> and it angers me greatly, because the country i live in placed all our economic eggs in the "financial services" basket
[00:13:34] <Cyprus> what do isp's produce
[00:13:46] <Cyprus> what do TV channels produce
[00:14:02] <Cyprus> you're artificially limiting to only physical goods
[00:14:10] <Cyprus> services are viable
[00:14:25] <n1> so your point is the largest industries in our economics shouldnt be producers of anything tangible?
[00:14:58] <n1> services are viable, but they're over valued at the moment i think
[00:14:58] <Cyprus> last i checked Tyson foods has a way higher market cap
[00:15:03] <Cyprus> as do most real estate companies
[00:15:59] <n1> im not saying they dont, and that would be another issue i have, the inflated real estate market
[00:16:02] <n1> there's nowhere to go but up
[00:16:34] <n1> no one needs or wants a home, they need investment properties.
[00:16:38] <Cyprus> something is worth what people are willing to pay, no more, no less
[00:16:56] <n1> yeah, and you can convince people something is worth an awful lot
[00:17:03] <n1> and they might want to believe you
[00:17:53] <Cyprus> you don't happen to own any books by Glen Beck do you?
[00:17:54] <n1> and i had to stop working for a company for exactly that reason, slick salesmen could convince people that he shit gold, so people were ripped of by the thousands, becaus
[00:18:02] <n1> because he was good at it
[00:18:17] <n1> no i don't...
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[01:11:55] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Easing Epilepsy With Battery Power - http://sylnt.us - unfortunately-its-an-auto-battery
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[01:12:15] <weeds> hello
[01:12:39] <n1> wb weeds
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[01:21:33] <prospectacle> hi
[01:21:39] <prospectacle> must be rush hour
[01:22:52] * prospectacle notes that a severe rush hour is functionally equivalent to its opposite, because very few cars are actually going anywhere.
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[01:28:32] <Cyprus> i'm getting things accomplished at least
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[01:31:28] <SpallsHurgenson> Dance, space monkeys, dance for my amusment, muahahahaha!
[01:38:14] <Landon> ach lordy
[01:38:22] <Landon> do we have a story about facebook acquiring oculus VR yet?
[01:39:25] <SpallsHurgenson> well, there's one gadget I can strike off my xmas list :)
[01:40:42] <Landon> I know, right :\
[01:40:54] <Landon> such disappointing news and I'm not usually one to be a facebook hater
[01:41:00] <Landon> s/hater/paranoid
[01:41:00] * SedBot hurls a / at Lendun!
[01:41:05] <SpallsHurgenson> zuckerberg has way too much money and no idea what to do with it. he REALLY thinks people are going to slap on goggles to go "social"?
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[01:41:23] <Landon> I'm trying to figure out how social you can get with the rift-type goggles
[01:41:31] <Landon> I mean, you can't really do videoconferencing
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[01:41:36] <SpallsHurgenson> VR is for hard-core geek gamers, normal people don't even like wearing google glass :)
[01:41:42] <Landon> or you'll just be staring at dorks with boxes on their head
[01:42:29] <MrBluze> or sleeping with a girl with a paper bag over her head?
[01:42:52] <SpallsHurgenson> well, I guess Carmack needed some extra cash for his next rocket :)
[01:43:13] <SpallsHurgenson> here's what's really sad:
[01:43:28] <SpallsHurgenson> $2 billion for some awesome new - albeit geeky - technology
[01:43:34] <SpallsHurgenson> $16 billion for WhatsApp
[01:43:41] <SpallsHurgenson> <sigh>
[01:44:04] <MrBluze> zuckerberg was "lucky", but it takes more than just money to get into a long-haul viable industry
[01:44:41] <Landon> SpallsHurgenson: rather, 2 billion for actual _hardware_ product
[01:44:43] <SpallsHurgenson> I've started to get the opinion that Zuckerberg doesn't have a strategy; he's just using all his money to troll the financial sector
[01:44:52] <Landon> 16 bil for a software product :(
[01:46:52] <SpallsHurgenson> he's just going to keep buying random companies for obscene amounts of money and secretly laughing at everybody who takes him seriously.
[01:47:30] <n1> sounds like a fun game if you're a billionaire
[01:47:39] <n1> not so helpful to the billions of people who arnt
[01:48:15] <SpallsHurgenson> ehn, only if you find trolling fun. Me, not so much, even if I were a billionaire
[01:48:46] <n1> i don't either
[01:48:56] <n1> but when you're drunk with money and power, im sure it seems like good fun
[01:49:00] <SpallsHurgenson> (note: I am willing to put this statement to the test! Give me $5 billion and I'll prove how much I don't like trolling economies :)
[01:49:08] <n1> if youve had the mentality to make the money and get the power
[01:50:07] <MrBluze> VR has military uses so it might be worth it from that point of view
[01:50:38] <MrBluze> whatsapp? who knows maybe he was told to buy it so there wouldn't be a gap in data collection
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[01:53:05] <SpallsHurgenson> I just had an image of people playing those stupid facebook games using an oculus VR, heheh
[01:53:33] <n1> need arma with oculus
[01:53:34] <MrBluze> i honestly dont think these baby billionaires are thinkign for themselves at all
[01:53:58] <MrBluze> they'd crash and burn rapidly
[01:54:32] <n1> i dont know how it works, you cant really win with it though
[01:54:33] <SpallsHurgenson> honestly, I don't even like wearing GLASSES, I can't really imagine wearing a big headset like that regularly for more than a few minutes
[01:54:41] <n1> you could get advisors in to manage your money
[01:54:51] <n1> but if they see you for what you are, all they'll do is seperate you from your money
[01:55:06] <n1> and you'll end up with all your money in subprime mortgages
[01:55:11] <MrBluze> i suspect they have minders to manage them, more to the point
[01:55:44] <n1> but where do the minders come from
[01:55:49] <n1> and whos interests are they minding?
[01:55:58] <MrBluze> exactly
[01:56:07] <MrBluze> that's the right question
[01:56:08] <n1> thats my point about the financial advisors
[01:56:20] <n1> it doesnt matter what you call them, it's who are they and what are they doing for who
[01:56:21] <MrBluze> its different with business families, they run their own shop
[01:56:36] <MrBluze> but these solo guys are managed i think
[01:57:05] <SpallsHurgenson> if I had a billion dollars, I wouldn't need minders. I'd just keep my spending down to less than a million dollars a month and I'll be fine :)
[01:57:24] <MrBluze> lol
[01:57:30] <n1> if you had a billion dollars, you'd be thinking "well, i could make this 2 billion and then i really would be ok"
[01:57:31] <MrBluze> nice dream to have
[01:57:34] <n1> because it's never enough
[01:58:02] <MrBluze> yeah if i had $100 i'd spend $10 and keep $90 .. whereas in actual fact i'd spend $90 and wonder where my next $100 comes from
[01:58:16] <n1> yup
[01:58:19] <SpallsHurgenson> ehn. I'm a geek. All I need is a nice dark basement, a fridge full of Mt dew and some neat tech gear
[01:58:30] * MrBluze nods
[01:58:31] <n1> which is why you'll never see that billion
[01:58:35] <xlefay> ha
[01:58:36] <SpallsHurgenson> I think I could squeeze that into a million dollar per month budget :)
[01:58:39] <n1> dont have the motivation
[01:58:48] <MrBluze> ugh i have to go to work
[01:58:50] <MrBluze> see u all
[01:58:53] <xlefay> ciao MrBluze :)
[01:58:55] <n1> take care, MrBluze
[01:59:01] <MrBluze> back to my somewhat miserable day job
[01:59:02] <MrBluze> cheers
[01:59:45] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[02:00:39] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean sure, in the beginning I'd go nuts (I think my "basement" might end up being a refurbished missile silo or something) but after the initial splurge I'd settle down and just surf the net on my 120" 4K monitor, pretty much like I do now :)
[02:00:52] <SpallsHurgenson> (minus the missile silo and disgustingly huge monitor, of course :)
[02:02:23] <n1> lol
[02:02:46] <SpallsHurgenson> heh, a 120" monitor; I could be like Mr Universe from /Serenity/ :)
[02:03:11] <n1> i can live on very little, and i can be happy with it, i'd like to make a lot of money, but im not motivated enough to do it
[02:03:42] <SpallsHurgenson> I am like, 76% sure I wouldn't end up buying islands in the
[02:03:46] <SpallsHurgenson> Pacific :)
[02:03:52] <n1> and i hit ethical barriers, i cant believe anything i would do would ever be worth a billion dollars
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[02:04:08] <BadCoderFinger> Yo
[02:04:11] <n1> i struggle at the moment when i thinking i'm making 'too much' for the work im doing.
[02:04:24] <SpallsHurgenson> unless you are literally saving the world Bruce-Willis-style, nobody is worth a billion dollars :)
[02:05:44] <n1> lol
[02:05:55] <BadCoderFinger> For a billion dollars, I could get assault weapons training.
[02:06:57] <n1> for a billion dollars, i could buy a huge amount of political influence
[02:07:12] <n1> and probably get laws crafted to make the money back after buying the influence
[02:07:32] <BadCoderFinger> That's certainly worked in USA telecom.
[02:07:37] <SpallsHurgenson> Free nickle for every post on soylentnews :)
[02:07:44] <n1> whats a million dollars to convince the government to give you a 100million contract
[02:08:12] <BadCoderFinger> Seems zero sum at that point.
[02:08:55] <n1> depends what the profit it on that contract
[02:09:07] <n1> if it didn't work, companies wouldnt spend a lot of money lobbying government
[02:09:26] <BadCoderFinger> That seems to be the case nowadays.
[02:10:04] <n1> although it could be a different strategy, do that to increase your turnover and market share in your industry, ignoring profits
[02:10:11] <n1> to give you a company to sell
[02:11:09] <n1> which is something you do when you're looking to get bought out, increase your turnover even if your profits dont move, it makes you bigger and look better on the balance sheets when you're touting for offers
[02:11:34] <n1> and if that turnover is government backed contracts, they're worth even more because of the security
[02:11:48] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, gone are the days when you could survive on your technical competence.
[02:12:15] <n1> gone are the days of job security and a career for life
[02:12:33] <BadCoderFinger> Very sad.
[02:12:54] <Cyprus> you can have a career, you just wont get anywhere
[02:13:26] <n1> it very much depends, you can have a career and a job title, but after a while, it you're not in an especially skilled position
[02:13:34] <n1> why hire you over some new kid out of college
[02:13:40] <n1> who they can pay less, abuse in what ever way
[02:13:57] <SpallsHurgenson> I sense bitterness :)
[02:14:05] <n1> hah
[02:14:31] <BadCoderFinger> Or outsource your job to Tech-Mahindra, the bane of technology.
[02:14:37] <n1> indeed
[02:15:08] <n1> i'm just trying to make do, i run my own business which i do like, but it wasnt really a choice after being fucked over so many times in contract work
[02:15:31] <n1> and a total lack of 'on the cards' work in what i do
[02:15:40] <BadCoderFinger> I seriously had a Tech-Mahindra guy not be smart enough to turn on the power button. I wish I was making that up.
[02:16:15] <SpallsHurgenson> well, it was probably one of those advanced computers that had a power button AND a reset button on the front :)
[02:16:30] <n1> LOL
[02:16:38] <BadCoderFinger> Ha! Nope: plain old HP DL380 G7
[02:16:51] <n1> it doesnt surprise, but in the meeting, with the graphs and company profile
[02:16:58] <n1> how could you not outsource?!
[02:17:05] <n1> it would be irresponsible to not go that route
[02:17:11] <BadCoderFinger> It's so much cheaper!
[02:17:13] <n1> it would be criminal against the shareholders
[02:17:26] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't know, it doesn't sound that convincing to me...
[02:17:34] <SpallsHurgenson> ... unless... they didn't have POWERPOINT, did they?
[02:17:40] <SpallsHurgenson> Gotta go with the ones who use powerpoint!
[02:17:47] <BadCoderFinger> If it wasn't for velcro, these idiots would be barefoot.
[02:17:55] <n1> i bet they had a powerpoint
[02:18:20] <SpallsHurgenson> well, no wonder you lost out. :)
[02:18:54] <n1> and it would have said tech-mahindra has 83,000 employees at your disposal for $1000 a month and they have revenues of $2bn+ so how can it be wrong?
[02:19:20] <BadCoderFinger> But none of them can tie a shoelace!
[02:19:31] <n1> that wouldnt have been in the powerpoint though
[02:19:41] <n1> it's not numbers and graphs with "PROFIT"
[02:19:43] <SpallsHurgenson> I bet you also didn't speak to them about paradigms, empowerment, quality vectors, and "pushing the envelope" :)
[02:19:49] <n1> shoelaces don't factor into it
[02:19:59] <n1> lol
[02:20:23] <BadCoderFinger> You would think there would be some assessment of technical capability.
[02:20:27] <SpallsHurgenson> you gotta speak the lingo. Learn to speak a lot without saying anything.
[02:20:47] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - The Microview is a Tiny Arduino With Screen for $45 (Kickstarter) - http://sylnt.us - man-thats-tiny
[02:20:54] <n1> SpallsHurgenson, i do have a problem with that
[02:20:55] <BadCoderFinger> I do that... When answering a question for Tech Mahindra.
[02:20:58] <SpallsHurgenson> I think they have classes in that nowadays; if you graduate, you become an MBA :)
[02:21:07] <n1> $2bn in revenue is their technical capability
[02:21:30] <n1> I'm not very good dealing with my clients, i have a 'tell it how it is' approach
[02:22:15] <SpallsHurgenson> damn customers, why do we even NEED them?!?!?
[02:22:20] <n1> lol
[02:22:50] <SpallsHurgenson> business would be so much easier without 'em, I tell ya!
[02:22:54] <n1> it would be
[02:23:14] <n1> although the headaches with the tax man would still be as much of a pain
[02:23:25] <BadCoderFinger> It would be cheaper to outsource to Russia and drain their Target accounts.
[02:23:41] <SpallsHurgenson> I once did a proposal using phrases from a buzzward bingo page...
[02:23:49] <BadCoderFinger> Ha!
[02:23:58] <n1> lol
[02:24:03] <SpallsHurgenson> (it was accepted, although I'd like to think that had more to do with the fact it was a good idea rather than the use of the lingo)
[02:24:45] <n1> probably didnt hurt though
[02:24:47] <SpallsHurgenson> I did get compliments from certain co-workers about it though. I didn't have the heart to tell 'em the truth. My direct manager gave me a talk, though :)
[02:25:12] <n1> what sort of 'talk'?
[02:25:44] <SpallsHurgenson> oh, he knows how I normally write, and knew I was facetiously adding in the buzzwords. He told me not to do it again :)
[02:26:00] <n1> ah heh
[02:26:26] <BadCoderFinger> I used to fill in my yearly review paperwork with "mission statement generator" quotes. Got good reviews, too.
[02:26:40] <n1> haha
[02:26:49] <SpallsHurgenson> honestly, I did it mostly as a passive-aggressive attack on one particular manager who LOVES that sort of thing. And yes, she was one of those who complimented me :)
[02:27:23] <n1> im pondering some business2business marketing at the moment
[02:27:28] <n1> wondering if i should be using buzzwords
[02:27:34] <BadCoderFinger> A worthy cause!
[02:27:47] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean, I used words like "ideate". I'm not even sure what that means!
[02:28:29] <SpallsHurgenson> here, I don't think this was the one I used but its similar: www.businessbuzzwordbingo.com :)
[02:29:08] <n1> nice
[02:30:04] <n1> i'll try it out during the meeting im due to have tomorrow - as in i'll use the words and see if anyone else notices im talking out my ass
[02:30:09] <SpallsHurgenson> just be sure your clients don't actually know you well enough - or aren't smart enough - to realize you are taking the piss outta them when you speak like that :)
[02:30:59] <n1> yeah, i wont do it with existing clients, but im having a meeting tomorrow with the business partner and the two employees
[02:31:39] <SpallsHurgenson> partner will probably love you; the employees will mock you relentlessly (but only to each other) after you leave :)
[02:32:03] <n1> hah
[02:32:54] <SpallsHurgenson> honestly, I'd be careful doing that; it's more likely to backfire than anything else. I only did it because I really hated the job at that point
[02:33:15] <n1> its not going to be a formal meeting, it wont do any harm
[02:33:28] <n1> all i really want to do is see if my partner picks up on it
[02:33:42] <n1> he spends a lot more time in the corporate world than i do
[02:34:11] <SpallsHurgenson> I think somebody is gonna get a "talk" :)
[02:34:41] <n1> well thats what i hope will happen
[02:36:10] <n1> but it does depend on the mood when we sit down, ive been mostly trying not to stress him out lately, he has his own clients who i dont have to deal with
[02:36:15] <n1> and they're giving him a lot of shit right now
[02:37:17] <SpallsHurgenson> as I said, damn customers!
[02:37:32] <n1> i dont know how he does it
[02:37:36] <n1> it would literally kill me
[02:37:38] <SpallsHurgenson> actually, I never really had that much of a problem with CUSTOMERS. It was always management that made my blood pressure rise.
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[02:38:01] <n1> well his situation being his clients are other peoples managers, so dont like being told by a contractor when things are wrong
[02:38:11] <n1> and their processes are fucked and things need changing now
[02:38:45] <SpallsHurgenson> I get customers are demanding - I mean, they want value for their money, even if their idea of "value" doesn't necessarily coincide with mine. But management - man, I mean, we're supposed to be on the same side! Work with me!
[02:39:19] <n1> heh, when i worked for a large corporation, i worked for the customer
[02:39:22] <n1> i knew the company didnt give a shit
[02:39:28] <n1> i was nearly always on the side of the customer
[02:40:08] <n1> not so much now, a few weeks ago i had a customer fight me over the remaining balance on a contract
[02:40:19] <n1> was 1005 outstanding
[02:40:20] <SpallsHurgenson> Well, I don't know if I was always on the side of the customer - they were frequently wrong too - but I got the relationship and could work with them.
[02:40:31] <n1> he refused to pay more than 1000
[02:40:56] <n1> at that point we had to make the decision of fuck it, it's going to cost us more in time to fight over the 5 than its worth
[02:40:58] <SpallsHurgenson> but some of the people who are supposedly there to help me do my job, jeez
[02:41:18] * SpallsHurgenson closes his eyes and sings, "happy thoughts, think only happy thoughts!"
[02:41:34] * SpallsHurgenson feels better :)
[02:41:44] <n1> in the scale of things it was like .01% of the jobs worth, and he just had to fight over it
[02:42:37] <SpallsHurgenson> there's always some evil customers. I don't worry about them. I get what I can with them and then make sure not to do business with them again.
[02:42:45] <n1> this was after i'd already made a profit loss, because he changed his mind and that cost more time and equipment, and didnt charge him for it
[02:43:22] <n1> i cant complain right now, longest its taken is a month to get any outstanding money
[02:44:00] <n1> im going for a breath of fresh air and nicotine.
[02:44:46] <SpallsHurgenson> have fun :)
[02:48:31] <BadCoderFinger> So if I'm watching a show, the last commercial I want to see is an ad for the exact show I'm watching.
[02:49:26] <SpallsHurgenson> sort of like those warnings not to steal a DVD that you actually paid for :)
[02:50:11] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, those bite. "You wouldn't steal a car..."
[02:50:49] <Landon> though, to be fair, shows change :)
[02:50:52] <SpallsHurgenson> I hate to be that guy, but thats one of the reasons I gave up on TV :)
[02:51:19] <Landon> all of the broadcast network's streaming solutions are the worst though
[02:51:23] <Landon> 4-5 ad breaks of _the same ad_
[02:51:46] <BadCoderFinger> I wouldn't steal a car, but I would download a show to BYPASS THE IDIOT COMMERCIALS!
[02:52:20] <arti> you wouldn't download a bear would you?
[02:52:22] <SpallsHurgenson> that's still TV as far as I'm concerned, just through a different broadcast medium. And its not just the ads - the product placement these days is obscene
[02:52:25] <prospectacle> The ironic thing is only the people who do the "right" thing get punished by suffering through those ads
[02:52:36] <SpallsHurgenson> if I could download a bear, I /so/ would download a bear!
[02:52:40] <prospectacle> which are unskippable. and could be seen as a punishment for giving them money.
[02:52:45] <BadCoderFinger> If I have to subscribe to the stream provider, as in pay money for it, then I bloody well am not watching the commercials.
[02:53:01] <arti> BadCoderFinger: YOU THIEF!
[02:53:42] * SpallsHurgenson would be a Bear Pirate!
[02:53:58] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, yeah. Apparently they lost their copy when I downloaded mine. And the NSA refuses to provide backups.
[02:54:27] <arti> deep in one of the nsa's data centers, smeagol
[02:55:03] <SpallsHurgenson> I hear bear piracy is on the rise...
[02:55:55] <BadCoderFinger> Panda or grizzly?
[02:56:33] <arti> how about a mix
[02:57:07] <BadCoderFinger> Mutant panda grizzly badger bear! What's the torrent link?
[02:57:07] <prospectacle> If people could scan their friends cars and have a copy an hour later, they WOULD TOTALLY DO IT ALL THE TIME
[02:57:37] <BadCoderFinger> No kidding.
[02:57:59] <arti> that'd be pretty sweet, it would be all about customization at that point
[02:58:07] <prospectacle> Maybe someone should break it to the advertising agency who made the "you wouldn't..." ad
[02:58:13] * arti imagines it would be like gta, average 3 cards to get some place
[02:58:15] <prospectacle> they'll be crushed, but they need to know
[02:59:04] <BadCoderFinger> They know already, they've just got their fingers in their ears, pretending it's still the 60s.
[02:59:07] <prospectacle> arti, everyone would need bigger garages for their collections of cars
[02:59:18] <arti> i'd unmake them as soon as i was done
[02:59:20] <arti> beam another one in
[02:59:23] <arti> why would i store it
[02:59:30] <prospectacle> Well i mean it takes a whole hour.
[02:59:33] <arti> oh...
[02:59:38] <prospectacle> You might want three or four ready to go
[02:59:43] <prospectacle> you know, to match your mood
[02:59:49] <arti> true, well, i'd get one of those nifty car stackers
[02:59:55] <arti> maybe pokeball technology
[02:59:58] <arti> or innerspace
[03:00:03] <prospectacle> yeah that would be sweet
[03:00:18] <arti> sounds like a great idea for an animated series
[03:00:25] <prospectacle> underground car stacker robot. "Bring up f3 please stacker"...
[03:00:26] <arti> it's like sliders, but with cards.
[03:00:29] <SpallsHurgenson> ehn, I'd take the bus :)
[03:00:32] <arti> s/cards/cars/
[03:00:32] <SedBot> <arti> it's like sliders, but with cars.
[03:00:43] <SpallsHurgenson> that way I can sit back and work on the computer while somebody else drives :)
[03:00:46] <arti> sliders would be an apt name too /drifting
[03:00:57] <prospectacle> Spalls, but the view out your window would be of much more interesting cars. So you can't avoid the revolution no matter what
[03:01:20] <SpallsHurgenson> what is this "Window" thing you speak of?
[03:01:51] <arti> should we make a convincing kickstarter?
[03:02:11] <BadCoderFinger> Enough buzzwords and it'll sell.
[03:02:15] <prospectacle> yeah, we just need a three-d printer that can do metal, plastic, leather, electronics, and rubber
[03:02:25] <arti> (Results not typical)
[03:02:26] <prospectacle> and a scanner that can see through all those materials, as well
[03:02:26] <SpallsHurgenson> now you are ideating!
[03:02:42] <BadCoderFinger> Just put in enough weasel words so you don't have to give the money back.
[03:02:44] <prospectacle> then on the second day, we need to make a good promotional video
[03:03:05] <SpallsHurgenson> ooh, with excessive CGI! Don't forget the lensflare!
[03:04:58] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger, we'll just put the bar low, then when we exceed it, we add extra features, thereby extending the deadline.
[03:05:10] <prospectacle> Pretty soon we'll have raised 10 million dollars and won't have to deliver for a hundred years
[03:05:20] <BadCoderFinger> Now with extra zippiness!
[03:05:21] <arti> oh, and then scale up too big and ask for more money
[03:05:37] <prospectacle> arti, exactly
[03:05:49] <arti> so yeah, oculus
[03:05:54] <prospectacle> lol
[03:05:55] <arti> :(
[03:05:57] <prospectacle> learn from the best
[03:06:13] <arti> not that they're doing that, that was more of a stab at double fine
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[03:10:52] <prospectacle> well, have good times people. I'll catch you later.
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[03:21:33] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Is Spying on Citizens Akin to Drunk Driving? - http://sylnt.us - driving-while-under-the-influence-of-spying
[03:25:14] <SpallsHurgenson> [SoylentNews] Is Every SoylentNews Article Going to invoke Beckeridge's Law from now on? http://please.writebetterheadlines.com - your readers ;-)
[03:25:54] <xlefay> !grab SpallsHurgenson
[03:25:55] <DashComma> Added quote 72
[03:27:02] <xlefay> It's not that bad so far, only two on the front page ;-) I wonder how many in total.
[03:30:18] <SpallsHurgenson> erm, Betteridge's Law :)
[03:30:41] <SpallsHurgenson> man, I'm glad that mistake wasn't immortalized in some quote database or anything :)
[03:40:15] <Cyprus> hey at least it had a summary
[03:40:26] <Cyprus> did you see that 2 link story?
[03:41:15] <SpallsHurgenson> no time for summaries when there is an exploit out in the wild!
[03:41:56] <SpallsHurgenson> I was sort of disappointed neither of those links were to RTF files, actually :)
[03:47:03] <Cyprus> lol
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[04:30:25] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Gov Liable if it Fakes Your Website - http://sylnt.us - drinking-and-spying
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[04:56:49] <SpallsHurgenson> how embarrassing. time to pass a new law :)
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[05:02:34] <xlefay> ha :p
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[06:43:26] <IT_phreak> hey soylent.... is asking $50k for a IT/helpdesk job too greedy?
[06:43:37] <arti> what kinda help desk?
[06:43:43] <arti> is there fluffing involved?
[06:43:48] <IT_phreak> here.... let me give you more details
[06:44:00] <chromas> Or docking
[06:44:01] <IT_phreak> omg no fluffing lmao
[06:44:06] <IT_phreak> LOL
[06:44:54] <IT_phreak> http://www.seattleaquarium.org
[06:44:57] <IT_phreak> there you go...
[06:45:12] <IT_phreak> "salary expectations"
[06:45:19] <IT_phreak> what do you even say to that -_-;; haha
[06:46:49] <arti> couldn't hurt
[06:46:59] <arti> seemsl iek a decent gig
[06:48:06] <IT_phreak> um... this is the "what would jesus do" moment; any advices as to how much should I ask...
[06:48:50] <IT_phreak> what do you think o_o
[06:48:54] <arti> see what other jobs are offering in the area?
[06:49:13] <IT_phreak> bah, some of them offer hourly... dude i'm not fucking with you; I dunno yearly salaries
[06:49:39] <IT_phreak> i dunno if i should say 50k; they might run into their closet :/
[06:49:50] <IT_phreak> i hate money -_-;
[06:50:03] <arti> hourly * 40 * 52 = ballpark
[06:50:43] <IT_phreak> ;; on the pdf it says they might need me off-hours, that might add more $
[06:50:48] <IT_phreak> well i don't mind, but you get the point
[06:50:52] <arti> not if you're hourly
[06:50:57] <arti> er salary
[06:51:04] <IT_phreak> see, they didn't state that captain obvious
[06:51:13] <IT_phreak> i'm sorry but i should just be blunt with them i suppose?
[06:51:30] <IT_phreak> they're just as scared as I am; what an HR -_-;
[06:52:42] <IT_phreak> arti, i did the math and if i offer $50k it comes down to like $26/hr
[06:53:06] <IT_phreak> ahh -_-; $48k yes?
[06:53:50] <arti> sure, the important thing will be getting an interview
[06:54:19] <IT_phreak> lol funny, I've been watching this for a while; they told me they had enough people, but oh sheeeeeeeet it goes up again -_-
[06:54:26] <IT_phreak> this=job posting
[06:54:30] <arti> salary is details, i've left it blank the last few interviews
[06:54:42] <arti> i want to see how the people are, what the place is like
[06:55:02] <IT_phreak> non-profit, 501c3, gov't operated, it's really the HR i suppose
[06:55:25] <IT_phreak> people in gov't sectors tend to be nice; idk what you think
[06:56:05] <IT_phreak> i gave you the link if you wanted to look over o_O
[06:56:19] <arti> nice?
[06:56:24] <arti> been to the dmv? lol
[06:56:38] <IT_phreak> okay, it depends :/ but my trolling habits will save me
[06:56:56] <arti> i looked over it prior to replying :P
[06:57:25] <IT_phreak> i really appreciate that. okay; i'll just ask for salary like a boss.
[06:57:39] <IT_phreak> money aint a thang, like jayz said >.>
[06:57:40] <arti> if you think you're going to be doing lots of OT, i'd go hourly
[06:57:50] <arti> may or maynot be an option
[06:58:01] <IT_phreak> i thought the exact same thing; i fucking hate it when they don't make things clear
[07:01:26] <IT_phreak> oh i have an idea.... discuss salary during interview; i'm sure they want to find someone capable firsthand
[07:01:33] <IT_phreak> case closed -_-
[07:01:57] <IT_phreak> arti: yes interview, where life and death occurs
[07:03:09] <arti> just relax, have questions ready for them
[07:03:51] <arti> if you're super nervous i'd recommend looking up common interview questions, and focus on being able to field questions smoothly
[07:05:33] <IT_phreak> well, trolls are smooth talkers; "hey OP my male-part is so large I bet I can use it as a tripod"
[07:05:43] <IT_phreak> source: 4chan
[07:07:25] <arti> that sounds like a brilliant idea.
[07:07:47] <IT_phreak> lol all modesty/sarcasms aside, yes i will prepare myself mentally ^^
[07:08:00] <arti> :D
[07:08:05] * arti is in coding land
[07:08:20] <arti> well, sounds exciting. after you get done with school
[07:08:28] <arti> work is how you seem to meet people
[07:09:04] <IT_phreak> or nagging arti ^^
[07:09:28] * arti plays paper football with IT_phreak
[07:09:38] <IT_phreak> everyone uses web for hiring; all digitalized so w/e
[07:09:44] <IT_phreak> lol i touchdown all day
[07:09:53] <IT_phreak> can you even kick?
[07:09:55] <arti> troll them with a qr code for goatcx
[07:10:54] <IT_phreak> lol goatcx, pretty borderline on this channel lmao
[07:13:59] <arti> blah stupid tables
[07:14:13] * arti needs more flexibility than this generator allows
[07:18:03] <IT_phreak> you need moar 4k monitors; coming soon
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[07:18:25] <arti> what's the new format to support those? still bluray? or are they going to unleash another disc?
[07:18:37] <IT_phreak> still lame-ray
[07:19:20] <IT_phreak> formatwise, www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=12948
[07:19:34] <IT_phreak> whatever, ttyl; i'll log back on in like an hour or so i swear >.>
[07:19:39] <arti> take care
[07:19:56] <IT_phreak> same
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[07:43:49] <crutchy> hi soylent
[07:44:03] <arti> hey crutchy
[07:49:37] <crutchy> how u going arti
[07:49:56] <arti> chippin away, working on displaying data
[07:50:03] <arti> how about you? better day?
[07:50:35] <crutchy> very quiet in orifice today. had trouble staying awake :-P
[07:51:25] <crutchy> what data you displaying?
[07:51:40] <arti> transaction history
[07:51:50] <crutchy> is that to do with that thinger you been learning
[07:52:25] <crutchy> sorry can't remember its name :-(
[07:52:26] <arti> thankfully no, i'm still stuck with that
[07:52:31] <arti> haskell :)
[07:52:32] <crutchy> oh
[07:54:50] <crutchy> worked on the wiki thing that i built into my work app today. if i was smartish i would have used an off-the-shelf wiki, but i had to go build one from scratch didn't i
[07:55:24] <crutchy> reinventing wheels is fun... sometimes
[07:55:51] <arti> yes, especially if you can license it
[07:56:13] <crutchy> i can't unfortunately
[07:56:33] <crutchy> its all wrapped up tight in company ownage
[07:57:07] <crutchy> its easier to use that wikipedia
[07:57:15] <crutchy> built for old farts
[07:57:17] <crutchy> :-)
[07:57:52] <arti> everything is work
[07:58:26] <crutchy> in my caper if its not easy it won't get used
[07:58:43] <arti> i respect that
[07:58:45] <crutchy> and work is bad
[07:59:05] <crutchy> so whats your transaction thing?
[07:59:15] <crutchy> sounds kinda financially
[07:59:17] <arti> payment processor
[07:59:35] <crutchy> ah yeah i remember you mentioned that
[07:59:36] <crutchy> :-)
[07:59:45] <arti> functionally it works, now is the support plumbing
[08:00:03] <arti> probably another 2-3 days
[08:00:10] <crutchy> cool
[08:00:18] <crutchy> is it for work?
[08:00:34] <arti> this is for a personal project
[08:00:54] <crutchy> awesome... so you get to keep your code?
[08:01:19] * crutchy wishes he could keep his code sometimes
[08:01:21] <arti> indeed, i still need to write tests for it :|
[08:01:29] <arti> i should've done that first but uh... heh
[08:01:30] <crutchy> unit tests?
[08:01:33] <crutchy> lol
[08:01:38] <arti> yeah, and integration tests
[08:01:41] <arti> i hate those
[08:01:55] <crutchy> who writes tests first anyways
[08:02:14] <arti> well, when something is planned out more it's a no brainer
[08:03:03] <crutchy> the regression testing system for the compliance app at work is a monstrosity... almost bigger than the main app
[08:03:51] <arti> hah, that's gotta be awesome to maintain
[08:04:01] <arti> "hey we're changing directions again" /moans from engineering
[08:05:05] <crutchy> instead of writing 60+ million tests i just built something that chucks unique combinations of compliance runs into a mysql table... so far it has about 1600 records so long way to go
[08:05:27] <crutchy> users make the tests for me as they use the app :-P
[08:05:32] <arti> smart
[08:05:44] <arti> as long as that thing isn't getting pounded should be cool
[08:06:24] <crutchy> luckily not a big company so one server mostly handles things ok... ram it a problem
[08:07:12] <crutchy> so is yours a github thing or private project?
[08:07:24] <arti> private, i use bitbucket
[08:08:14] <arti> i haven't really posted any projects publicly, that might change with a component i've made for another project, slideshow picker. optimized it for mobile today
[08:08:43] <arti> was doing javascript animation and it was causing grief randomly
[08:08:52] <crutchy> not sure if you were around yesterday when i posted my first code on github
[08:09:00] <crutchy> oh cool
[08:09:05] <arti> don't think so, congrats on the social coding
[08:10:13] <crutchy> i don't like using js in productive apps, but i've played around with js a bit... sort of tried making a tile map scroller thing
[08:10:18] <crutchy> didn't work real well
[08:10:22] <crutchy> but it was fun
[08:10:47] <arti> it can be frustrating
[08:11:12] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Releases MSDOS 2 and WFW 1 Sources - http://sylnt.us - 640k-ought-to-be-enough-for-anybody
[08:11:17] <arti> you post the php bot code?
[08:11:46] <crutchy> eventually got that irc bot to do something yesterday, except for the brick wall on the wiki side... xlefay said i would prolly need some kind of magic from one of the wiki admins to get around the antibot stuff
[08:11:54] <crutchy> oh, yeah
[08:12:06] <crutchy> https://github.com
[08:12:10] <crutchy> go nuts
[08:12:12] <crutchy> :-)
[08:12:25] <crutchy> xlefay's already given it a once over
[08:12:37] <xlefay> I was being gentle tho, go break 'm arti!
[08:12:37] <arti> i'll scope it out in a few
[08:12:54] <crutchy> i'm sure there is plenty that could be improved, but it tested ok
[08:13:00] <crutchy> lol
[08:13:03] <crutchy> hi xlefay
[08:13:17] <xlefay> hi crutchy, how are ya? :)
[08:13:29] <crutchy> i'm good
[08:13:31] <crutchy> u?
[08:14:22] <xlefay> same, tired though ;)
[08:14:34] <crutchy> do you ever sleep :-P
[08:15:03] <crutchy> maybe you need to do a !sleep xlefay
[08:15:18] <crutchy> if only it was that easy
[08:15:24] <xlefay> Sometimes, my internal shell goes 'sleep <time>' ;-)
[08:15:32] <crutchy> !sleep crutchy
[08:15:37] <crutchy> bah
[08:16:09] <xlefay> ha ;)
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[08:17:40] <crutchy> arti i made sure there was plenty of globals especially for you :-D
[08:17:53] * crutchy hides
[08:17:54] <arti> global economy
[08:18:28] <crutchy> globules
[08:19:45] <xlefay> arti: s/globals/glowball/
[08:19:52] <xlefay> arti: s/global/glowball/
[08:19:52] <SedBot> <xlefay> <arti> glowball economy
[08:19:53] <xlefay> oops
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[08:21:19] <xlefay> alrighty, I'm off to bed, have fun with them "globals" crutchy ;-)
[08:22:05] <crutchy> cya xlefay :-)
[08:22:15] <crutchy> !sleep xlefay
[08:22:19] <xlefay> Take care ^^ ;-)
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[08:37:34] <arti> that nest at the top hah
[08:39:08] <arti> overall though, cool!
[08:40:35] <crutchy> nest?
[08:40:43] <arti> the if statements at the top
[08:40:57] <crutchy> lol
[08:41:16] <crutchy> my programming skills are pretty basic :-P
[08:41:26] <arti> it's good, the important thing is it works :D
[08:41:41] <crutchy> that's usually all i care about to start with
[08:41:52] <crutchy> get it working, and then if need be tidy it up later
[08:42:22] <crutchy> probably not cosher way of doing it, but lucky i'm not a software fag :-P
[08:42:50] <arti> i'll have to look into some socket fun
[08:43:02] <crutchy> sockets are awesome
[08:44:19] <crutchy> i made a tool in my work app that i access in a browser, and the webserver opens a socket to a delphi program with a listening socket, which queries a microsoft access database and then returns data through to the webserver which draws a chart using gd
[08:44:26] <crutchy> was so fun making that work
[08:44:37] <arti> nice!
[08:45:13] * arti wonders if "shim" is appropriate
[08:45:22] <crutchy> shim?
[08:45:46] <arti> the role the delphi program is playing
[08:45:50] <crutchy> yeah
[08:46:14] <crutchy> i called it a relay or something. it just has a little system tray icon
[08:47:14] <crutchy> i wanna do more with it but i haven't got around to it yet
[08:47:23] <crutchy> at the moment it only supports select queries
[08:47:51] <arti> still, that's a good chunk, what's next? insert?
[08:48:25] <crutchy> dunno. actually if i took off the security measures you could probably execute whatever you wanted
[08:49:11] <crutchy> not sure the boss would appreciate that though, assuming he knew anything about how it worked :-P
[08:51:10] <crutchy> it hooks into the database that manages jobs, timesheets, client info, etc
[08:51:10] <arti> keep lots of backups :)
[08:51:57] <crutchy> i can hook into other databases too but i haven't built that into the php yet. the database and workgroup files are just passed to the relay as post parameters
[08:52:04] <crutchy> yeah we do nightly backups
[08:52:26] <crutchy> s/files/filenames
[08:52:27] * SedBot offers cratchy a /
[08:52:30] <crutchy> s/files/filenames/
[08:54:00] <crutchy> thankfully i don't have to worry about backups and other IT stuff
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[09:33:32] <DashComma> [ksuhku] anybody else annoyed that when you click yesterdays news, you get half of todays news first on the next page as well..? (also happened on the now-dicey website)
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[13:40:20] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - IRS: Virtual Currencies are Taxable - http://sylnt.us - you-know-you've-arrived-when
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[14:42:06] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - DMCA Takedown Notices Surge 711,887% in Four Years - http://sylnt.us - Is-a-digital-millennium-1024-years?
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[15:00:28] <xlefay> bytram: you've got mail! :)
[15:02:39] <Konomi> 711,887%
[15:02:44] <Konomi> makes sense
[15:04:29] <xlefay> I bet they made it to match their ineffectiveness.
[15:04:43] <xlefay> s/their/its/
[15:04:43] <SedBot> <xlefay> I bet they made it to match its ineffectiveness.
[15:04:59] <Konomi> we should all start sending out nasty letters
[15:05:01] <Konomi> might start a fad
[15:05:15] <Konomi> except it will be when we pay to see one of their horrible movies
[15:05:15] <xlefay> A new rebellion!
[15:05:32] <Konomi> we'll rant about how awful they are and demaind our funds back due to false advertising/faulty prodcut
[15:08:08] <xlefay> ^^^^
[15:08:49] <xlefay> I bet it won't be long before a movie comes out to discredit our initiative!
[15:11:07] <n1> arrgghhhh
[15:20:35] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Windows 8 Update Erases Grub, Enables Secure Boot - http://sylnt.us - It's-a-trap!
[15:31:44] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Scientists Reach New Precision for Top Quark Mass - http://sylnt.us - serious-lobes
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[15:46:10] <stderr> Any editors in here?
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[18:49:16] <TK> Today is the first day that I have not been given mod points to hand out. I am glad they are (supposedly) being spread out to other people.
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[19:19:04] <SirFinkus> lol, I just got 2 rounds of them really close together
[19:22:12] <TK> Was there finally a change to the mod system, or does passing the karma threshold (+30) change something?
[19:29:27] <Cyprus> change to mod system?
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[20:01:07] <DashComma> [SoylentNews] - Ask Soylent -- Mass Linux Installations - http://sylnt.us - Pencils-&amp;-Penguins
[20:09:14] <TK> How mod points are allocated, I mean
[20:09:25] <TK> Or maybe we've passed a threshold of users?
[20:20:50] <stderr> TK: Maybe you just haven't been active enough today?
[20:30:10] <Cyprus> to my knowledge the algo hasn't changed
[20:35:11] <stderr> Double-HTML-ification bug on twitter: https://twitter.com
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[21:04:25] <FoobarBazbot> stderr: the RSS feed has exhibited similar misbehavior.
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[21:10:01] <stderr> FoobarBazbot|afk: I think the twitter-feeder gets its content from the RSS feed. If that's the case and the RSS feed has the same problem, there might not be a problem with the twitter-feeder after all. Just "bad input".
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[22:16:19] <crutchy> xlefay: just wondering whether it would be possible to set up 2 identical linodes with pacemaker and drbd for high availability, so that if one of the linodes carks it, the other can stonith and take over... http://clusterlabs.org
[22:22:15] <crutchy> http://www.drbd.org
[22:22:54] <mechanicjay> crutchy: are you asking for the main site?
[22:23:11] <crutchy> was thinking of the main site, yeah
[22:25:14] <mechanicjay> I think our first priority for the core site it get it to load balance across multiple webnodes, talking to a common db.
[22:25:48] <mechanicjay> I'm not sure we've talked much about doing a "hot Backup". Ideally, I think we'll have a mysql replica standing by.
[22:26:27] <mechanicjay> At that point we have resiliency built into the system, which negates a lot of the need for a fully replicated hot-standby setup.
[22:27:19] <crutchy> with drbd you can just set up a shared block level device for storing slash and mysql data
[22:28:38] <crutchy> kinda like direct hdd replication
[22:28:52] <crutchy> never got into it much but drbd looks pretty funky
[22:29:20] <mechanicjay> HMM, it's like SAN replication on a local level...neat
[22:29:39] <crutchy> raid1 over ethernet :-)
[22:29:47] <mechanicjay> creepy
[22:30:23] <crutchy> but the advantage of using drbd with pacemaker is that if one node dies, you still have a copy of all the data on the hot spare
[22:30:41] <crutchy> then then when you bring up the dead node it syncs back
[22:31:55] <mechanicjay> My argument might be something like: mysql multimaster is easy to setup, achieves basically the same thing, and isn't dependent on a 3rd party piece of software to work.
[22:33:04] <crutchy> dunno might be better to use some kind of virtual HA setup that can maintain web sessions etc through failures
[22:33:09] <crutchy> there's also mysql cluster
[22:33:15] <mechanicjay> now, for shared webroots, it's an interesting idea, assuming you can have modify data on any node and it'll sync.
[22:33:43] <crutchy> anyway, just thought it thow it out there as food for thought
[22:33:54] <crutchy> s/it/i'd/
[22:33:54] <SedBot> <crutchy> anyway, just thought i'd thow it out there as food for thought
[22:34:03] <mechanicjay> it's definitely an interesting idea!
[22:34:09] <crutchy> gotta go to work and take kiddywinks to skool and stuff
[22:34:27] <mechanicjay> cool, catch you later
[22:34:40] <crutchy> HA seems like one of those black arts
[22:34:45] <crutchy> anyway cya later!
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