#Soylent | Logs for 2014-03-15

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[00:00:12] <n1> i wish i could think that
[00:00:18] <n1> but ive gone back over some of the stuff i used to listen to
[00:00:22] <n1> and it's not that great
[00:00:27] <arti> tastes change
[00:00:33] <n1> indeed
[00:00:51] <n1> i have a pretty wide taste in music
[00:01:04] <arti> i enjoy making horrible music
[00:01:08] <n1> but some of the stuff i used to enjoy i now see as the generic formulaic crap that it is
[00:01:14] <arti> "sweet, let's just modulate that some more and badabing"
[00:01:29] <n1> i used to be in a grindcore band ;)
[00:01:44] <arti> *NOISE CHANGES PITCH*
[00:02:19] <arti> if you had fun doing it, it's a great hobby
[00:02:29] <n1> oh yeah, it was great
[00:02:44] <n1> i remember it fondly, even if i dont listen to that stuff anymore
[00:03:26] <n1> playing music is good fun, i stop when it stops being fun, i have no dreams of being the best bass player or guitarist in the world
[00:03:28] * arti prefers stuff without lyrics for programming/researching/stabbing
[00:04:17] <n1> my car radio has three presets at the moment: 1) talk radio (which i dont actually listen to anymore-too much bs) ...2) ClassicFM 3) A local pirate Drum&Bass station
[00:04:54] <arti> nice, the UK pumps out a lot of good d&b
[00:05:31] <n1> yeah, D&B was an awakening for me when i was like 14, found the segway between metal and dance music
[00:07:06] <arti> how many moons ago was this?
[00:07:15] <n1> i'm 25 now
[00:07:21] <n1> i think anyway, i forget
[00:07:30] <arti> yeah, it sucks
[00:07:37] <arti> "i'm 2.....no wait 31"
[00:07:49] <arti> "fek"
[00:08:01] <n1> hah
[00:08:14] <arti> it's all downhill after 21
[00:08:21] <n1> i had it when i got called for a job interview a couple of years ago
[00:08:28] <arti> wat.
[00:08:30] <sea> arti: It's all downhill after 2.
[00:08:38] <n1> asked me how old i was, i totally forgot
[00:08:39] <arti> they asked you how old you were?
[00:08:41] <n1> yeah
[00:08:44] <arti> are you in america?
[00:08:46] <n1> i know theyre not supposed to
[00:08:48] <n1> nope
[00:09:32] <arti> oh well, plenty of fuckers out there
[00:09:36] <n1> i was only out by a year, but i had to tell them i'd told them wrong
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[00:09:46] <n1> i got the job but didnt take it up
[00:09:52] <n1> glad i didnt too
[00:09:58] <arti> one thing i like about aging, no means no to fuckers who bug you for money
[00:10:24] <arti> hate that shit with a passion
[00:10:34] <n1> who's been bugging you for money?
[00:10:44] <arti> oh these pesky people who say i owe them rent
[00:10:46] <arti> the nerve
[00:10:55] <n1> heh
[00:11:03] <arti> panhandlers and what not
[00:11:16] <arti> it's like a past time to make it to your car prior to them hitting you up
[00:11:34] <arti> > The winds of fate are at your back. You have successfully returned.
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[00:11:56] <arti> s/past time/pastime/
[00:11:59] <n1> i lived in the caribbean briefly, got a lot of random people trying for money
[00:12:14] <n1> most of it because they assumed i was a tourist
[00:12:15] <arti> oh nice, it's basically the ghetto with beaches right?
[00:12:19] <n1> yup
[00:12:38] <n1> it has its benefits, but it's a different world, and it became very blah for me
[00:12:50] * arti nods
[00:12:52] <n1> there's no escape from this tiny island, everyone knows your business
[00:13:23] <arti> yay for small towns
[00:13:31] <n1> dealing with the corruption and money shit was hard too
[00:13:57] <n1> earning 1/4 of what i do here, in a difficult envrionment where the cost of living evens out, if you want to live a 'western' lifestyle
[00:14:29] <n1> i like small towns, i dont want to live in a city anymore
[00:14:34] <n1> but i like being able to leave that small town
[00:14:45] <n1> when it's a small island nation just off south america, it's not a small town anymore.
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[00:15:44] * arti hides behind the door and holds his breath
[00:16:55] <arti> well, you can mark that experience off of your bucket list
[00:17:18] <n1> even though i still have debt from it, i'm glad i did it. i dont have to wonder if i passed on the opportunity
[00:17:47] <n1> worth the experience
[00:18:03] <arti> money comes and goes
[00:18:09] <Ethanol-fueled> n1, what is that? Missed it.
[00:18:33] <n1> i briefly lived and tried to run a business in the caribbean.
[00:18:57] <Ethanol-fueled> nice.
[00:19:19] <n1> i'm now back in London. A place i tried to escape, but it's better than the caribbean paradise which only exists when you're on vacation.
[00:20:00] <n1> stuck in the no-win situation, needing money and work, dont want to live in London, but that's where the work is.
[00:20:16] <Ethanol-fueled> Bummer.
[00:20:52] <sea> n1: Which caribbean island did you go to?
[00:21:01] <crutchy> can always work for the NSA
[00:21:04] <n1> sea, st lucia
[00:21:35] <sea> Ah, interesting
[00:21:42] <sea> It only exists when you're on vacation? ;)
[00:21:52] <crutchy> https://www.youtube.com
[00:22:07] <n1> the experience and the paradise only exists on vacation
[00:22:19] <n1> when you're going to the tourist spots, staying in the resorts
[00:22:26] <n1> you dont see the islands for what they are
[00:22:30] <sea> I live roughly 120km from st. lucia. I could swim there if I had a source of food..
[00:22:43] <n1> martinique?
[00:22:46] <arti> sea: the sea provides all!
[00:22:56] * sea conjures a fish, then eats it.
[00:23:10] <arti> become a 9th level vegan, you unlock photosynthesis!
[00:23:26] <sea> LOL!
[00:23:37] <n1> it was annoying, i went halfway across the world, and yet i could still see france...
[00:23:54] <arti> n1: try living in alaska, you can see russia from there
[00:23:59] * arti hides
[00:24:07] <n1> lol
[00:24:29] <Ethanol-fueled> n1: so is it true then that old overweight white women cavort with the young black servants over there?
[00:24:54] <arti> http://imgur.com
[00:25:06] <Ethanol-fueled> If so, describe it in detail. Stinky, juicy detail.
[00:25:34] <arti> ugh
[00:25:37] <sea> Ethanol-fueled: I've met some slim white women who came out here for vacation. ;)
[00:25:42] <n1> 'servants' isn't the right term. but some older women from the UK and US to tend to find a 20/30 something local guy who finds them irresistable
[00:25:58] <arti> it's called alcohol
[00:26:17] <Ethanol-fueled> n1: That's because blacks like butts. And like many species, they don't know why, they just know.
[00:26:19] <arti> a win is pretty much anything with a pulse, bonus if it's a human female
[00:26:29] <n1> and the reverse is also true
[00:26:31] <sea> What? No that's not it at all. The foreigners and sex tourists usually pay for services. Sometimes they just pay with gifts
[00:26:44] <arti> sea: you pay in regular dating too
[00:26:53] <n1> these often become long term relationships, because the local guy sees a meal ticket
[00:26:53] <sea> I guess so, yeah
[00:26:56] <Ethanol-fueled> arti: ain't that the truth.
[00:27:03] <n1> so will deal with being with a woman 30 years his senior
[00:27:09] <n1> but will still have his other women around the island
[00:27:11] <arti> i'd rather spend the money on myself and my friends, than some stranger
[00:27:30] * sea would rather buy a library
[00:27:34] <n1> but as i was saying, the reverse is also true... the older men from the UK and US, find some young local girl
[00:27:37] <n1> but they go a step further
[00:27:42] <n1> they have parties to swap the local girls around
[00:28:06] <arti> sounds like a great way to catch some bugs
[00:28:08] <Ethanol-fueled> Whoa, mixing juices.
[00:28:19] <sea> mm...lobster.
[00:28:26] <arti> giant underwater cockroaches
[00:28:28] <n1> it's a vocation to find a 'white' person in that respect
[00:28:43] <Ethanol-fueled> n1: I bet the room stinks like a zoo after all the romp.
[00:29:05] <arti> as far as zoo smells, the apes own the smells
[00:29:16] <Ethanol-fueled> Hahahah, you racist motherfucker.
[00:29:20] <n1> i never found out.
[00:29:21] <arti> down wind of the gorillas jesus
[00:29:42] <arti> watching those things play around with a keg, they filled it with sand so it wouldn't flip too far
[00:29:51] <arti> they bat that thing around like it's nothing
[00:31:22] <n1> zoos make me sad
[00:31:29] <sea> n1++
[00:31:29] <Bender> karma - n1: 4
[00:32:03] <arti> yeah, fuck those places where you can find endangered species
[00:32:25] <Ethanol-fueled> Yeah, they are. They started a Gorrilla exhibit here at the zoo and the only thing I remember about it was that the people were separated from the gorillas by a plexiglas wall, and the gorrillas were trying to hide from them the entire time.
[00:32:57] <Ethanol-fueled> Weren't even playing or walking around or anything.
[00:33:09] <arti> have i got a video for you
[00:33:10] <n1> i think a line can be drawn between keeping animals in captivity to preserve them as their natural habitat has been destroyed
[00:33:19] <n1> and just collecting exotic animals for people to stare at
[00:33:23] <arti> well at least you don't call it kidnapping
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[00:33:55] <Alberto> s/bacon/borg/
[00:34:05] <arti> Ethanol-fueled: http://www.youtube.com
[00:34:28] <arti> mafugin bixnood
[00:35:22] <Ethanol-fueled> HAHAHAHA
[00:35:54] <Ethanol-fueled> he was all sly about it until the underhand, that was awesome.
[00:36:01] <arti> brilliant
[00:36:03] <Ethanol-fueled> bix_nood++
[00:36:03] <Bender> karma - bix_nood: 3
[00:37:04] <Ethanol-fueled> That's a tough call to make...would it really be that bad to be reincarnated as a chimp, you'd have to live in a cage but you'd get to fling shit at people all day and they couldn't do a damn thing to you.
[00:37:17] <Ethanol-fueled> That would NEVER get old.
[00:37:38] <arti> hahaha
[00:39:27] <Ethanol-fueled> http://www.nationalpost.com
[00:39:41] <Ethanol-fueled> If you know the name of that Chimp, you know justice has been served.
[00:40:01] <Ethanol-fueled> You can take the monkey out of the jungle, but you can never take the jungle out of the monkey.
[00:40:34] <Ethanol-fueled> Don't do an image search unless you're prepared to see what he did to his caretaker.
[00:41:32] <arti> tired of taking shit
[00:42:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Target Had Multiple Chances to Stop Card Breach - http://sylnt.us - oops-that's-not-the-way-it's-meant-to-work
[00:44:22] <crutchy> arti: globals are far more important :-P
[00:44:38] <arti> define("FACEMUNCH", ...);
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[00:45:04] <arti> how's it going crutchy
[00:45:34] <crutchy> my pull request got rejected, but it's ok cos NC made a good case. was only a little patch and i was sorta using it to figure out github anyway :-)
[00:45:46] <crutchy> not too bad arti. weekend woohoo!
[00:46:33] <sea> Urgh, I hate built-in kernel modules
[00:46:38] <sea> I can't unload them when they get buggy
[00:46:45] <crutchy> corn kernels are pretty good
[00:46:47] * sea roars
[00:47:03] <crutchy> not with bugs though
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[00:47:06] <arti> http://i.qkme.me
[00:47:07] <sea> crutchy: They don't respond well to high system temperatures.
[00:47:23] <crutchy> they turn into corn flakes
[00:48:00] <crutchy> hahaha yeah i remember that episode
[00:48:07] <crutchy> fkin banks
[00:48:51] <arti> hahaha
[00:49:11] <arti> i always wonder what non english speakers think of that show
[00:49:16] <arti> so much must be lost in translation
[00:53:41] <crutchy> i think anyone that sees cartman pull a bunch of hamburgers out of his underwear and feeds them to his friends would get the idea
[00:53:59] <Ethanol-fueled> The one with cartman and the chili was fucking awesome.
[00:54:14] <Ethanol-fueled> One of the best nerd-revenge fantasies by far.
[00:54:32] <crutchy> i've been looking for the full croc hunter episode on youtube but no joy
[00:54:41] <crutchy> i missed it :-(
[00:54:44] <arti> what's the name of it?
[00:54:49] * arti shall locate it
[00:55:24] <crutchy> https://www.youtube.com
[00:55:29] <arti> also, they've got a bunch of them on their website o.o
[00:55:34] <crutchy> ^^^funniest south park moment ^^^
[00:55:36] <arti> is it ghey and doesn't stream to oz?
[00:56:42] <Ethanol-fueled> Here's a good episode of croc hunter: http://www.youtube.com
[00:59:50] <sea> Physics question: Hot objects emit EM radiation, like my incandescent light bulb. Why?
[01:00:45] <Ethanol-fueled> sea: because heat creates motion, and the EM radiation is that motion propagating itself.
[01:03:56] <arti> sea: because they love to
[01:04:05] <arti> same reason stuff falls to the ground
[01:06:36] <sea> Ethanol-fueled: I think that I get what you're saying. Is it that some of the moving particles have electrons around them, and since their 'host' is moving, they're moving too, and so you get EM waves?
[01:06:53] <sea> because then that must mean that /all/ motion gives off radio waves
[01:08:11] <Ethanol-fueled> sea: not necessarily radio waves - the analog extends to everyday motion at the macroscopic level - for example, if you light your dog's ass on fire, he runs.
[01:08:15] <dx3bydt3> http://en.wikipedia.org
[01:09:20] <Ethanol-fueled> if you light an atom or molecule's ass on fire, it runs. Or, yeah, what he ^^^ said.
[01:13:15] <sea> Interesting. I'll have to get a book on this
[01:16:35] <Ethanol-fueled> We're gonna have to pour out some malt liquor when M.C. Hawking passes.
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[01:21:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Superconducting Spintronics - http://sylnt.us
[01:23:22] -!- mode/#Soylent [-v Bender] by FortuneTeller
[01:23:25] -ChanServ:#Soylent- xlefay quieted *!*@Soylent/Bot/Bender
[01:23:25] -!- mode/#Soylent [+q *!*@Soylent/Bot/Bender] by FortuneTeller
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[01:32:06] <crutchy> oy! where'e the department?
[01:32:18] <sea> Hm, good point
[01:32:42] <crutchy> bender's broked
[01:32:57] <crutchy> someone offended him
[01:33:19] <sea> From the oy!-wheres-the-dept-joke department
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[01:38:22] <xlefay> !woop
[01:38:31] <xlefay> .unquiet Bender
[01:38:31] -!- mode/#Soylent [-q *!*@Soylent/Bot/Bender] by FortuneTeller
[01:38:34] <xlefay> !woop
[01:38:35] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[01:38:42] <xlefay> he is... someone just muted him ;]
[01:38:44] -!- xlefay [xlefay!~xlefay@Soylent/Staff/IRC/xlefay] has parted #Soylent
[01:39:23] <paulej72_afk> bacon++
[01:39:23] <Bender> karma - bacon: 176
[01:39:52] <crutchy> why did the devs disable the department field when publishing TFA?
[01:39:58] <crutchy> that was the best bit
[01:40:36] <crutchy> or did janrinok just forget to set it
[01:40:40] <Landon> they did? it didn't just get forgotten
[01:41:18] <crutchy> !bug-report: make "department" field required :-P
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[01:50:01] <SpallsHurgenson> Space. Space. Gotta go to space. What's your favorite thing about space? Mine is space. So much space, need to see it all. Ooooh, space.
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[01:52:06] <BadCoderFinger> Yo
[01:52:27] <SpallsHurgenson> Ssssppppppaaaaaaaaacccccccceeeeeeee!
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[01:52:48] <BadCoderFinger> Ehwot?
[01:52:56] <SpallsHurgenson> scared away another one :)
[01:53:10] <BadCoderFinger> Dude, tone down on the aftershave thenm
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[01:54:07] <BadCoderFinger> How are things, Spalls?
[01:55:46] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm a nerd who is spending his friday night on IRC, how do you think it's going? ;-)
[01:56:04] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, me too. But I have a nice IPA.
[01:56:59] <SpallsHurgenson> international police association?
[01:57:04] <BadCoderFinger> I'd share, but /dcc sendbeer doesn't give a usuable error message.
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[01:57:46] <BadCoderFinger> India Pale Ale. A nice hoppy beer.
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[01:59:06] <BadCoderFinger> Dang, Spalls! You did it again!
[01:59:32] <BadCoderFinger> Remind me to stay on your good side.
[01:59:49] <SpallsHurgenson> hey, wasn't me this time!
[02:00:03] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
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[02:04:43] <dx3bydt3> What sort of IPA have you got this evening?
[02:05:57] <dx3bydt3> I had a "Russian Imperial Stout" which was quite like a double IPA
[02:06:28] <Ethanol-fueled> Russian stouts are like chocolate, or coffee.
[02:06:48] <Ethanol-fueled> they are unlike double IPA which are like sweet niggers.
[02:07:01] <BadCoderFinger> Stone brewery, out of San Diego, CA, USA.
[02:07:01] <Ethanol-fueled> have you ever licked a nigger's nipple?
[02:07:25] <dx3bydt3> this one was named Russian, but made in Nova Scotia
[02:07:31] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[02:08:27] <BadCoderFinger> My knowledge of Nova Scotia is based entirely on "Trailer Park Boys"
[02:08:40] <dx3bydt3> if all goes according to plan I'll have a 2L jug of black IPA tomorrow.
[02:09:11] <dx3bydt3> also, I'd take that regional knowledge with a grain of salt.
[02:09:18] <BadCoderFinger> Brewing? Only 2 liters? Travesty!
[02:09:48] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, but Ricky and Julian are very informative!
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[02:10:10] <dx3bydt3> oh, not brewing this myself, the brewery sells it in jugs though.
[02:10:23] <BadCoderFinger> Ah, I see.
[02:10:27] <dx3bydt3> I'll the the IPA along with some stout.
[02:11:09] <BadCoderFinger> I've got a lot of Irish and Scottish in my ancestry, so I'm partial to Stout.
[02:11:48] <dx3bydt3> I love the name this local brewery came up with for the stout:
[02:11:54] <dx3bydt3> Cereal Killer
[02:11:58] <BadCoderFinger> Ha!
[02:12:12] <BadCoderFinger> Oatmeal Stout, then?
[02:12:29] <arti> goatmeal
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[02:12:42] <dx3bydt3> more oats than goats for sure.
[02:12:49] <BadCoderFinger> Ground up goats? That must take a while.
[02:13:00] <arti> i like them powdered personally
[02:13:23] <BadCoderFinger> Fermented is my choice.
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[02:16:11] <BadCoderFinger> (with an echo effect) "Powdered Goat Man!"
[02:16:25] <BadCoderFinger> (I miss Ren and Stimpy)
[02:18:19] <SpallsHurgenson> <yawns>
[02:19:15] <dx3bydt3> you sound like you could use some powdered goat
[02:19:46] <dx3bydt3> or coffee.
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[02:21:12] <BadCoderFinger> Damnit! /dcc sendcoffee doesn't work either! What good is IRC?
[02:22:49] <dx3bydt3> words of encouragement?
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[02:24:59] <prospectacle> Can I take a quick poll? If there were like a Paypal "tip jar" with specific quanities listed (e.g. $x for domain name, $y for this month's hosting), showing how much had been collected towards each specific thing and how much we needed. And this wasn't a giant banner on the front page (like *some* websites) would you be inclined to donate to a specific part of the site costs?
[02:26:09] <SpallsHurgenson> as for me: not really, if I'm going to donate I'd let you do the work of where the money goes. I'm not interested in the parts, just the whole
[02:26:10] <BadCoderFinger> Yes.
[02:26:47] <prospectacle> Spalls, ok what if one of the default option was "General donation" and you could specify a single part only if cared which part?
[02:27:33] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger: Me too
[02:27:47] <dx3bydt3> stuff like domain and hosting are fairly basic, and I could see splitting contributions to that vs. developing SN beta for example
[02:27:51] <SpallsHurgenson> honestly, I think internally I'd be thinkint that all that would just add to the mental load, making it less likely for me to want to donate. Just take the damn money and leave me alone :) :)
[02:28:10] <SpallsHurgenson> but again, that's me :)
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[02:28:38] <BadCoderFinger> Although Spalls makes a good point. Most likely I'd hit the "Do what you want with it" button.
[02:29:09] <BadCoderFinger> Even if it's "Beer for the editors."
[02:29:18] <dx3bydt3> Agreed, assuming the site was going like it is now, in a pro community direction/
[02:29:25] <prospectacle> So if there were a big, general donate button and below it maybe a little link that was like "I want to choose which specific cost to contribute to"? That might work?
[02:29:43] <SpallsHurgenson> if the site isn't goint the way I want it, I'm either not going to donate, or won't donate a second time :)
[02:29:57] <BadCoderFinger> Seems reasonable, but what happens when critical sections fall short?
[02:30:38] <SpallsHurgenson> honestly, I don't care if the site works because you spent all the money on high-end servers or if it got wasted on hookers and beer; I just want my daily fix :)
[02:30:40] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger: Well that's already happening, since there is no donation button. So this could only help.
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[02:31:04] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger: I'm not saying as a long-term thing. I'm saying if that happened right now, who would chuck in a few bucks. I know I would.
[02:31:28] <prospectacle> Don't know if money is even if abig deal at the moment, but perhaps costs of incorporating etc (even as a non-profit) will need to be raised.
[02:31:31] <BadCoderFinger> I mean, the choice means we (the community) are choosing where money goes, but at some point "donation" simply means "keep the site running."
[02:31:43] <dx3bydt3> personally If I were to donate I'd prefer to be able to direct the allocation of funds to my preference. That said critical stuff is critical.
[02:32:27] <BadCoderFinger> I don't mind the site making a profit, but I'd prefer no sellout to dice.
[02:32:32] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger, Spalls, dx3bydt3: Sounds like it would need to be an either "Give money to site" or (directly below) "Give money to one specific aspect of site". This second option might include beer for the admins, because ti's your choice.
[02:32:58] <BadCoderFinger> prospectacle: I'd be fine with that.
[02:33:09] <mattie_p> beer money for the admins is a fine choice, and I support it wholeheartedly.
[02:33:15] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger: Yes well a site is an abstract entity. The question is who makes the profit. if it were a workers co-op then the workers could keep the excess, and that would be fine by me.
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[02:33:46] <prospectacle> mattie_p: Put a link to the tip jar on the site and I'll buy you a round.
[02:33:57] <dx3bydt3> sounds like a good set of choices.
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[02:34:16] <prospectacle> Ok good. I have no power to do this, I just wanted this to be on the logs.
[02:34:25] <BadCoderFinger> prospectacle: Yeah, I'd be happier with that, but I realize that may not be the direction things end up.
[02:35:14] <mattie_p> We'd prefer not to put up a tip jar until we get other things settled, mostly regarding incorporation
[02:35:15] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger: True, and personally I would vote for a non-for-profit club with (optional) paid membership options. This could still lead to staff being paid well, when there is enough income. As long as members got a vote on such things.
[02:35:22] <BadCoderFinger> Plus a "workers co-op" might attract more people to admin positions.
[02:35:25] <SpallsHurgenson> mind you, you are opening yourself to trouble then if you use some of the money donated for reason X to pay for reason Y, no matter how much excess cash you have stashed away for X and hoow essential Y may be
[02:36:01] <dx3bydt3> Good point.
[02:36:02] <prospectacle> mattie_p, I understand that reservation, but you might need money to incorporate, and if people know it's a "no-guarantees" donation, I think there's still be plenty willing to ante up.
[02:36:02] <mattie_p> Are you implying people would tip me too much beer money and I might have to pay the rent? shocking news
[02:36:18] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson: That is a good point... I may not be a good random sample.
[02:36:49] <prospectacle> Spalls, yes, would have to be a realtime update and a disclaimer (if we get too much for this, we're spending it on blackjack and hookers, you were warned).
[02:36:51] <SpallsHurgenson> mattie_p: actually, if those were two options, yes, I think you would see exactly that
[02:37:04] <BadCoderFinger> But I'm good with the site being maintained, and the admins getting beer out of it.
[02:37:10] <dx3bydt3> I know I'm not a good random sample either.
[02:37:16] <mattie_p> ok, so much as I would like to see it, beer for the admins option is off the table
[02:37:20] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm completely random.
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[02:38:04] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson: You keep killing Space! If you were random, it would only be 50% of the time!
[02:38:10] <prospectacle> Well thanks for your input. I have to go.
[02:38:40] <BadCoderFinger> Yar, good luck!
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[02:39:17] * SpallsHurgenson is no longer the space core... now I'm the adventure core!
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[02:39:33] <BadCoderFinger> mattie_p: We could have beer parties... "Soyled Events"
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[02:40:22] <mattie_p> I'm pretty sure there are informal beer and bacon parties trying to happen already. anywhere there is kobach, there is a beer and bacon party
[02:40:27] <SpallsHurgenson> tip-jar and donations should be entirely separate entities
[02:40:28] <BadCoderFinger> "We are the soyled..."
[02:40:57] <Ethanol-fueled> BadCoderFinger: Fuck 'em.
[02:41:05] <BadCoderFinger> Eh?
[02:42:05] <Ethanol-fueled> mattie_p: close the fist and hold it to their necks.
[02:42:20] <BadCoderFinger> Ethanol-fueled: Sorry, I don't understand your banter.
[02:42:23] <Ethanol-fueled> the sonofabitches will recoil to the "bop"
[02:43:45] <SpallsHurgenson> BadCoderFinger: just nod and back away slowly... and whatever you do,
[02:43:50] <SpallsHurgenson> DONT MAKE EYE CONTACT
[02:43:52] <BadCoderFinger> Ha!
[02:44:04] <Ethanol-fueled> BadCoderFinger: close your fingers into a fist. Tell all who disobey that they will face a hit.
[02:44:05] * BadCoderFinger tries to be unobtrusive.
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[02:44:31] <BadCoderFinger> Ethanol-fueled: Goes against my nature, I'm afraid.
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[02:45:18] <Ethanol-fueled> BadeCoderFinger...that's too bad, because they will fuck you if you don't fuck them first.
[02:46:12] <BadCoderFinger> Ethanol-fueled: I'm not certain that's the answer to the "Prisoner's Dilemma"
[02:47:07] <dx3bydt3> !grab BadCoderFinger
[02:47:07] <Bender> Added quote 22
[02:47:12] <Ethanol-fueled> BadCoderFinger: THIS: http://www.youtube.com is.
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[02:48:03] <BadCoderFinger> Seriously? That's the quote you grab? /dcc senbeer gets no love? Heh!
[02:49:35] <SpallsHurgenson> ooh, a new song is looping in my head; it's been a week or so since that has happened
[02:49:45] <dx3bydt3> all down to timing sorry.
[02:49:50] <SpallsHurgenson> tonight's song is AC/DC's Thunderstruck
[02:49:57] <SpallsHurgenson> (probably because of that video last night)
[02:50:09] <SpallsHurgenson> finally a song I /want/ stuck in my head :)
[02:50:52] <BadCoderFinger> Ethanol-fueled: "Eye-for-an-eye" is not the world I choose to live in. If I'm wrong, I prefer death instead, because my soul (and my perception of society) means more than the sum of human selfishness.
[02:51:19] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson: Ha! I'm with you there.
[02:51:35] <SpallsHurgenson> sounds like somebody who is not heavily invested into occular prosthetics :)
[02:52:07] <Ethanol-fueled> BadCoderFinger: Good luck with your altruism. You'll be stomped and disabled.
[02:52:16] <n1> that was very well put, BadCoderFinger.
[02:52:42] <n1> i'd rather be stomped and disabled than become part of a system where every interaction becomes a confrontation and a competition for supremacy
[02:52:52] <BadCoderFinger> And that's fine with me. I'm hardly altruistic, though.
[02:53:29] <BadCoderFinger> I have to agree with n1, "dog-eat-dog" leads to extinction.
[02:54:31] <SpallsHurgenson> fortunately, shallow and self-centered as most of us are, we also tend to be pretty nice and want to be liked, so - while there is stomping - I've found it to be far less common than some people would have you believe
[02:55:08] <Ethanol-fueled> Sucxk my fat dick motherfuckers.
[02:55:14] <n1> SpallsHurgenson, you're right to a point, but the stomping is done more discreetly and not directly often
[02:55:16] <Ethanol-fueled> bend over.
[02:55:21] <BadCoderFinger> At some point, we have to behave like members of a society. Otherwise we would never have risen above tribalism, and the strongest warlord would be the only form of government.
[02:55:39] <n1> i have met enough kind and generous people with a heart to know dog-eat-dog is not all there is to humanity
[02:55:40] <Ethanol-fueled> BadCoderFInger: suck thsi dick.
[02:55:48] <Ethanol-fueled> suck it.
[02:56:01] <SpallsHurgenson> sounds like somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning :)
[02:56:42] <BadCoderFinger> Ethanol-fueled: I'd prefer to be left out of your bizarre fantasies, but I can't control what or how you think.
[02:57:33] <Ethanol-fueled> You all: SUCK MY DICK, and TAKE ALL DAY
[02:57:35] <Ethanol-fueled> HAHAHAHHAHAHA
[02:57:44] <Ethanol-fueled> taste it, bitches!
[02:57:44] <n1> self-proclaimed troll wants to live in a world of sexual violence, i am surprised.
[02:58:21] <Ethanol-fueled> n1: That's not true. I want the trannies to run free.
[02:58:40] <BadCoderFinger> It's good that you can admit that.
[03:00:29] * BadCoderFinger switches topics back to beer while
[03:00:46] * BadCoderFinger switches topics back to beer while Ethanol-fueled isn't looking...
[03:01:04] <Ethanol-fueled> I'm gonna pass out
[03:01:05] <BadCoderFinger> So Spalls, you should try an IPA.
[03:01:11] <n1> i want me some tequila beer
[03:01:18] <SpallsHurgenson> I would just like to take this opportunity to say that I am ever so ready for winter to be over
[03:01:27] <Ethanol-fueled> looking for beatings
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[03:01:29] <Ethanol-fueled> Hahhaha
[03:01:32] <SpallsHurgenson> (so I can start complaining about the heat and humidity again)
[03:01:47] <n1> lol
[03:01:52] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, if I can go a week without snow, that'll be nice.
[03:02:04] <Ethanol-fueled> http://www.youtube.com
[03:02:17] <Ethanol-fueled> Fagoot bruce: Turd Tickler.
[03:03:02] <SpallsHurgenson> plus, then I can wear shorts; I know all the woman are dying to see my knees again :-)
[03:03:16] <BadCoderFinger> Ethanol-fueled: You keep typing words, but I have no idea what you're trying to say.
[03:03:54] <Ethanol-fueled> BadCoderFinger: I'mm drunk. I have one more to the licka store
[03:04:03] <BadCoderFinger> -fueled> http://www.youtube.com
[03:04:04] <SpallsHurgenson> BadCoderFinger: I believe it is trollish, and by curious coincidence pretty much everything he says translates to "please somebody pay attention to me."
[03:04:31] <SpallsHurgenson> quite a remarkable language, actually :)
[03:05:02] <BadCoderFinger> Ethanol-fueled: In that case I shall quote "Real Genius:" Up the voltage.
[03:05:08] <Ethanol-fueled> SpallsHurgenson: Yes, somebody talk to me. What? Everybody hates me?
[03:05:28] <Ethanol-fueled> SpallsHurgenson: Bitch-ass nigga.
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[03:06:00] <SpallsHurgenson> hate requires more emotional investment than most people deserve. I prefer disregard :)
[03:06:24] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson++ # Well put!
[03:06:24] <Bender> karma - spallshurgenson: 6
[03:06:24] <SpallsHurgenson> and humorous appreciation :)
[03:07:11] <Ethanol-fueled> spalls: I'm just an asshole. How does that apply to everybody else?
[03:07:45] <SpallsHurgenson> we're all such funny primates. how can I not laugh at our antics. it's a shame none of us have tails; we might actually be cute :)
[03:09:06] <BadCoderFinger> If I did have a tail, it would have to be prehensile, and reach the beer fridge.
[03:09:39] <Ethanol-fueled> fuck all you assholes
[03:09:51] <jones> rude
[03:10:10] <Ethanol-fueled> jones, rude this....bye bye
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[03:10:41] <n1> i hope he finds a hobby
[03:10:52] <SpallsHurgenson> such an energetic lad
[03:10:53] * BadCoderFinger mourns the decline and fall of the English language.
[03:11:41] <n1> when he first arrived here, his first statement was something like; "I'm Ethanol-fueled and i've been trolling slashdot for years"
[03:11:57] <SpallsHurgenson> oh, so he DOES have a hobby. how nice for him
[03:12:10] <BadCoderFinger> Eloquence died here, lads, Not because we were nice, but because others thought that "Beavis and Butthead" represents the height of modern literate entertainment.
[03:12:20] <n1> starts with something close to a reasonable conversation which then devolves into him verbally abusing people
[03:12:54] <BadCoderFinger> Eh, it happens.
[03:12:54] <SpallsHurgenson> well, it's just words. smile and nod, then move on :)
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[03:13:09] <BadCoderFinger> Trolls hate big words, I've noticed.
[03:13:12] <jones> trolling is hard these days
[03:13:27] <n1> indeed, it's not something that phases me, trolls are easy to ignore
[03:13:27] <SpallsHurgenson> and I'll have you know that Beavis and Butthead were rife with symbolism and hidden meaning :)
[03:13:33] <BadCoderFinger> HA!
[03:13:42] <n1> i only chimed in because of what BadCoderFinger said so eloquently about eye-for-an-eye
[03:13:48] <BadCoderFinger> I didn't say I didn't watch them!
[03:13:53] <NezSez> you're saying trolling, these days, is NP-Hard?
[03:14:13] <BadCoderFinger> n1: Thanks for the compliment!
[03:14:31] <n1> trolling well is hard
[03:14:38] <NezSez> maybe they could make trolling one of those newfangled game-theory research games like candy-crush
[03:15:11] <BadCoderFinger> Or bloody well put it in the winter olympics. I might watch then.
[03:15:25] <n1> lol
[03:15:36] <NezSez> olympic trolling, hrm that could work
[03:15:49] <SpallsHurgenson> Shhh, don't say the trademarked, copyrighted and probably patented "O-word" or we'll get the IOCC on us!
[03:15:52] <n1> it might clean up the internet a bit, if there was some focus to the trolling
[03:16:11] <n1> it's ruined online discourse in many places, the ever increasing number of trolls
[03:16:19] <BadCoderFinger> Bah, the internet is a dirty, dirty place, Clorox won't fix that.
[03:16:39] <NezSez> s/olympic/oilimpic/
[03:16:39] <SedBot> <NozSiz> oilimpic trolling, hrm that could work
[03:16:59] <SpallsHurgenson> as bad are the number of people who accuse others of trolling simply because they disagree with their opinion :)
[03:17:25] <n1> a well done troll works in that regard though
[03:17:31] <BadCoderFinger> Logic and facts take a back seat to emotional venting by the mental equiavalent of 12 year olds.
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[03:17:36] <NezSez> Spalls: Shut up you insensitive clod troller!
[03:17:47] <NezSez> :)
[03:18:29] <BadCoderFinger> Dang Spalls, you're now an insensitive clod!
[03:18:55] <SpallsHurgenson> trolling doesn't bother me too much. the obvious ones are easy to ignore, and the less obvious ones tend to bring up interesting topics (which is why their trolls work in the first place), often sparking worthwhile discussion
[03:18:56] <BadCoderFinger> What do you feed these guys>
[03:19:05] <NezSez> and he's a troller too, cause I don't agree with him
[03:19:21] <SpallsHurgenson> (at least until the trolls push the topic too far, and become obvious and easy to disregard :)
[03:19:35] <BadCoderFinger> Well at least Spalls has worthwhile trolls.
[03:19:42] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm a humor troll. I try to make people laugh :)
[03:20:13] <SpallsHurgenson> but other than that, I'd find it hard to disagree with any assertion that said that my comments are also 90% noise :)
[03:20:26] <NezSez> I'll second that Spalls. I sometimes play the "straight man" in the comedic sense cause I know it will lead to humour
[03:20:27] <BadCoderFinger> Heh! I do have a very British dry, sarcastic, and often sardonic sense of humor.
[03:21:02] <NezSez> Spalls is no longer a troller, cause I agreed with him
[03:21:10] <NezSez> Yay!
[03:21:29] <SpallsHurgenson> (at least on IRC, which is largely entertainment for me. I'd like to believe I've a higher signal value when I discuss "real" topics :)
[03:22:33] <SpallsHurgenson> but this is all getting too serious. So let's discuss sheep instead
[03:22:35] <BadCoderFinger> Entertaining, yes. I'd much prefer enlightened discussion, however.
[03:22:35] <NezSez> s/equia/eqi/
[03:23:18] * SpallsHurgenson points out that sheep are covered in wool
[03:23:23] <BadCoderFinger> Ah. Tell me again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
[03:23:31] <NezSez> Spalls: I see what you're doing there....try and coerce me into making humour will ya...ha I'm on to you
[03:23:41] <SpallsHurgenson> (S/N ratio dropping, dropping... ah, bottoming out, just like I like it! :)
[03:24:05] <BadCoderFinger> (I know, but I can't resist a Monty Python reference.)
[03:24:20] <NezSez> what is this bottoming of which you refer?
[03:24:41] <BadCoderFinger> Oh, we had that earlier.
[03:24:52] <NezSez> wolf nipple chips, get'em while they're hot. They're lovely.
[03:25:09] <NezSez> (Life of Brian)
[03:25:26] <BadCoderFinger> "Judean People's Front! Splitters!"
[03:25:31] <NezSez> LOL
[03:25:50] <NezSez> "Redge, DO SOMETHING!"
[03:25:53] <BadCoderFinger> "We're the People's Front of Judea!"
[03:26:40] <SpallsHurgenson> Romans eunt domos! ermm, I mean, Romani ite domum!
[03:26:41] * NezSez places fist to head
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[03:27:04] <BadCoderFinger> "Solidarity, Redge!"
[03:27:10] <NezSez> which is what case? (twisting ear)
[03:27:32] <SpallsHurgenson> wherever there shall be a gathering of nerds, there shalt thee hear repeated the sayings of Monty Python
[03:27:46] <NezSez> oh oh,, uhm uhm......dat.....dat...dative sir!
[03:27:57] <BadCoderFinger> Yes. Why should I break tradition?
[03:28:32] * SpallsHurgenson sings (from a completely different movie) "Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great; if a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate!"
[03:28:33] <BadCoderFinger> Also, Blackadder and Red Dwarf.
[03:28:35] <NezSez> nueii shalt that count to 5. That is right out!
[03:28:56] <NezSez> (Brother Maynard) (sp?)
[03:29:05] <SpallsHurgenson> geez BadCodeFinger, you are describing my DVD shelf :)
[03:29:24] <NezSez> Firefly fans by any chance? The Tick?
[03:29:36] <BadCoderFinger> Mine as well. I'm thinking there may be a common thread here.
[03:29:38] * SpallsHurgenson hangs his head in shame and whispers "Yes"
[03:29:44] <NezSez> LOL
[03:29:53] <NezSez> Serenity :)
[03:29:58] <BadCoderFinger> Ah, Firefly! And the Tick.
[03:30:15] <BadCoderFinger> I mostly loved Firefly.
[03:30:17] <NezSez> BadCoderFinger: I grok your mouth music!
[03:30:17] <SpallsHurgenson> actually, I was always quite fond of "Chef" as well; talk about mastery of the english language, Lenny Henry could bawl you out and you'd feel the smarter for it!
[03:30:30] <BadCoderFinger> But I'm very picky about SF.
[03:30:56] <BadCoderFinger> I loved the insults hurled at Everton!
[03:31:04] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm still waiting for science-fiction to show up on TV :)
[03:31:25] <NezSez> chef? is this that wacky bbc cooking thing with one guy and one girl that's very funny?
[03:31:33] <SpallsHurgenson> that's the one
[03:31:46] <SpallsHurgenson> well, seasons 1 & 2. avoid the third season, by all that is holy
[03:31:47] <NezSez> oh that's what it's called. Brilliant!
[03:32:00] <NezSez> ever see "Coupling" ?
[03:32:03] <BadCoderFinger> Last good SF movie I saw was "Moon"
[03:32:36] <NezSez> BadC: was that one with the funny guy......uh he was in Galaxy Quest.....uhm
[03:32:44] <SpallsHurgenson> Moon was good. Europa Report wasn't too bad either
[03:33:00] <BadCoderFinger> No, "Moon" was actual serious SF.
[03:33:05] <NezSez> I liked Europa Report. Moon was good if it's the one I'm thinking of
[03:33:16] <NezSez> yeah, Sam Rockwell.....yes it was serious
[03:33:23] <SpallsHurgenson> so was Europa Report (unless I am remembering the wrong movie).
[03:33:27] <NezSez> but he typically played comedic roles
[03:33:38] <NezSez> I loved Europa Report
[03:33:39] <BadCoderFinger> "Hyperdrive" was a worthy successor to Red Dwarf.
[03:33:53] <NezSez> I only saw the first two seasons of RD
[03:34:01] <NezSez> "The IT Crowd"
[03:34:02] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean, except for the alien at the end, but every sci-fi story is allowed one bit of speculative fiction :)
[03:34:15] <SpallsHurgenson> IT crowd is amazingly stupid... funny, though :)
[03:34:21] <NezSez> you guys would like the first 3 seasons of Coupling
[03:34:33] <NezSez> "What operating system is it running?"
[03:34:40] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, "IT Crowd" was great. "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
[03:34:48] <SpallsHurgenson> everyone tells me I would love the "Big Bang Effect" but everytime I watch an episode I turn it off after ten minutes
[03:34:50] <NezSez> lol
[03:35:06] <NezSez> Big Bang Effect? haven't heard of that one
[03:35:18] <SpallsHurgenson> I might have the name wrong. Let me google that for me :)
[03:35:22] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson: Same here. Just can't get into it at all.
[03:35:36] <NezSez> Big Bang Theory? that's a popular one, but I hate it
[03:35:39] <SpallsHurgenson> Big Bang Theory
[03:35:47] <NezSez> ah yeah, i can't stand that one
[03:35:59] <BadCoderFinger> Another blatant misuse of the word "Theory"
[03:36:41] <SpallsHurgenson> Anyway, I have a real problem with modern TV shows, especially American ones. I am hostily averse to advertising, and modern shows are so full of product placement that I can't watch without wanting to destroy my TV
[03:37:28] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson: Living in America, I can't help but agree. Would an ice cold Coke help?
[03:38:06] <SpallsHurgenson> which either results in my needing to buy a new TV or getting the bones in my hand re-set; eitherway, an expensive and painful experience :)
[03:39:19] <SpallsHurgenson> fortunately, as I no longer have cable and can't receive any OTA broadcasts, electronic and medical bills have dropped precipitously in my household
[03:39:56] <NezSez> lol
[03:39:58] <SpallsHurgenson> (DVD purchases, however, have risen exponentially :)
[03:40:02] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[03:40:18] <BadCoderFinger> I'm down to Roku with Netflix now.
[03:41:28] <SpallsHurgenson> I hate paying subscriptions. I have no problem dropping $30 a week on a new DVD boxed set, but ask me to pay $10/mo for Netflix and I'll look at you as if you were a poop-eating baboon
[03:42:30] <BadCoderFinger> Luckily there's a lot of stuff on Netflix, otherwise I shouldn't bother.
[03:42:31] <SpallsHurgenson> (which may cause offense if you happen to NOT be a coprophagic primate :)
[03:42:48] <SpallsHurgenson> (I like the big words, can you tell? :)
[03:43:08] <BadCoderFinger> (Yeah, that may have made it across, heh!)
[03:43:55] <BadCoderFinger> I may declare, here and now, that I am in fact a primate. Although I've only eaten yeast poop.
[03:44:07] <BadCoderFinger> All other poop is off limits.
[03:44:37] <SpallsHurgenson> what about cheese?
[03:45:10] <BadCoderFinger> Damnit. Yeast poop and cheese mold poop.
[03:45:27] -!- SoyCow3915 [SoyCow3915!~cc7c5386@204.124.zx.hvg] has joined #Soylent
[03:45:43] <SoyCow3915> Hello all
[03:45:47] <SoyCow3915> What's going down?
[03:45:56] <SpallsHurgenson> come to think of it, almost the entirety of the dairy aisle.
[03:46:00] <SpallsHurgenson> and aged meat
[03:46:01] <BadCoderFinger> Stilton is a favorite. Although that godawful onion cheese is right out.
[03:46:10] <SpallsHurgenson> NOT!!!!! STILTON!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:46:28] <SoyCow3915> I like fine cheese
[03:46:30] <SoyCow3915> fine as in string
[03:46:40] <SpallsHurgenson> we all like fine cheese. that's why Stilton is right out :)
[03:46:59] <SoyCow3915> I'm a conniseur of string cheese
[03:47:03] <SoyCow3915> frigo, etc
[03:47:04] <SoyCow3915> :P
[03:47:16] <BadCoderFinger> Hrm. It is good, but it isn't a fine cheese.
[03:47:18] <SpallsHurgenson> bah, good cheese comes out of a spray can :)
[03:47:35] <SoyCow3915> right, and ends in 'whiz'
[03:47:42] <BadCoderFinger> So bloody hell, you've argued me into a corner. Well played, Mr. Internet.
[03:47:51] <SpallsHurgenson> argh, I feel sick just having said that.
[03:48:50] <SpallsHurgenson> I can feel my dead grandmother beating me on the head with a wooden spoon for having implied there is any culinary value to cheez whiz
[03:49:21] <SoyCow3915> she's just jealous...now pass the cheese whiz and wheat thins
[03:49:48] * SpallsHurgenson takes the conversation back 17 minutes and says, "Babylon 5!"
[03:50:42] <NezSez> i just never could get into B5
[03:50:56] <SpallsHurgenson> it took a lot of effort, I admit :)
[03:51:05] <SoyCow3915> Yeah, I preferred Babylon 6 myself
[03:51:27] <SpallsHurgenson> actually, I take back what I said about no "real" sci-fi on TV. There was one show that made an earnest attempt: a short-lived BBC serial called "StarCops"
[03:51:30] <SoyCow3915> This Jen, is the Internet!
[03:51:58] <SoyCow3915> Wait a minute, the Elders of the internet know who I am?!?!
[03:52:13] <BadCoderFinger> "Jen, the internet doesn't weigh anything!"
[03:53:12] <SpallsHurgenson> it was more police-procedural than sci-fi, and they were severely limited by their budget, but Star Cops had more respect for real science and the limitations of space-travel than pretty much all other shows combined
[03:53:27] <SpallsHurgenson> pity about the acting and the oh-so-80s theme song :)
[03:54:00] <NezSez> I recently read some of the books in Iain M Banks "Culture" series
[03:54:04] <SpallsHurgenson> (mind you, I LIKE the 80s theme-song, but I can understand that it drives a lot of people away :)
[03:54:10] <BadCoderFinger> Unlike "Space 1999" which blew the moon out of earth's orbit and somehow didn't blow apart.
[03:54:30] <NezSez> *not* hard SF for the record, but entertaining
[03:54:42] <BadCoderFinger> Ah, the Culture novels! I love those.
[03:55:09] <NezSez> Yeah i liked em too.....going to read "Look to Winward" next
[03:55:23] <SpallsHurgenson> I never did see Space 1999; it's my secret shame. Don't tell anyone, okay?
[03:55:26] <BadCoderFinger> I named a server "Horza" from the first one.
[03:55:32] <NezSez> LOL
[03:55:55] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson: That's hardly a shame, heh!
[03:56:11] <BadCoderFinger> But you should watch "Hyperdrive"
[03:56:42] <NezSez> yeah I thought Consider Phlebas was great myself
[03:57:03] <SpallsHurgenson> <sigh> oh, okay; I'll add it to the bottom of my way-to-long "list of DVD sets I need to buy":)
[03:57:22] <BadCoderFinger> I think it was the most character focused, more like C. J. Cherryh
[03:57:37] <NezSez> BadC: have you read "Excession"? (Culture)
[03:57:38] <SpallsHurgenson> Cherryh is my not-secret shame.
[03:57:46] <SpallsHurgenson> erm, not-shame :)
[03:57:53] <SpallsHurgenson> love me some Cherryh :_
[03:58:03] <BadCoderFinger> No, the last one I read was the one about the shell world.
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[03:58:35] <BadCoderFinger> The Faded Sun trilogy was great!
[03:58:48] <NezSez> oh yeah that was good too......Matter
[03:58:57] <BadCoderFinger> Dude, once again you have killed off Space_Man!
[03:59:02] <SpallsHurgenson> was always more fond of the Alliance-Union
[03:59:17] <SpallsHurgenson> (although technically Faded Sun is in the same universe :)
[03:59:26] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, I can
[03:59:46] <BadCoderFinger> I can't help but parallel the Mri to the Fremen.
[04:00:07] <BadCoderFinger> (Bloody enter key is too close to the others.)
[04:01:01] <SpallsHurgenson> Dune is, of course, another perennial favorite
[04:01:05] <NezSez> what is cherryh?
[04:01:18] <BadCoderFinger> And Frank Herbert is my all time favorite, even though Asimov is my literary hero.
[04:01:21] <SpallsHurgenson> can't help but read those books and discover something new everytime
[04:01:45] <NezSez> Asimov was truly great, non-fiction too
[04:01:47] <BadCoderFinger> All of Herbert's books are like that.
[04:01:51] <SpallsHurgenson> the destination void books are great
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[04:02:36] <SpallsHurgenson> everytime I read about how somebody intends to create a real AI, it makes me remember that book
[04:02:48] <BadCoderFinger> Even Dosadi was good, and that was rather predictable.
[04:03:12] <SpallsHurgenson> Asimov was fun, but a bit too pulp. Loved Clarke, though. And Niven was a nice balance; pulp but good respect for the science :)
[04:03:51] <BadCoderFinger> I think Clarke was great on his own, but when he collaborated it was horrible.
[04:04:19] <SpallsHurgenson> as far as I could tell, most of Clarke's collaborations were "here's my name, stick it on a book" :)
[04:04:43] <BadCoderFinger> And Niven, hell, it's damn near impossible to overrate Ringworld.
[04:05:03] <SpallsHurgenson> sad thing is, a lot of the sci-fi authors I really enjoy are either really old or dead :)
[04:05:42] <BadCoderFinger> That keeps happening, sadly.
[04:06:20] <SpallsHurgenson> Ringworld is fascinating science, but god I couldn't stand the characters or the story
[04:07:06] <NezSez> Alistair Reynolds?
[04:07:35] <NezSez> I've only read "Revelation Space" but I thought it was pretty good
[04:07:58] <BadCoderFinger> Reynolds is good, so is Baxter. Both could use some polish though.
[04:08:07] <NezSez> I tried Ringworld when I was in high school and just found it very dry
[04:08:30] <NezSez> Yeah I'd agree with that (I haven't read Baxter yet)
[04:09:19] <BadCoderFinger> Baxter is worth the effort.
[04:09:37] <NezSez> duly noted
[04:09:52] <NezSez> I did like Clarke
[04:10:22] <NezSez> I'll have to try Ringworld again
[04:11:05] <NezSez> William Gibson worth the effort? (yes that's right I never read Gibson)
[04:11:19] <BadCoderFinger> Yes!
[04:11:29] <BadCoderFinger> Start with Neuromancer.
[04:11:33] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm not sure if Gibson is worth the effort anymore. Twenty-five years ago, hell yeah
[04:11:39] <NezSez> otay panky
[04:12:00] <BadCoderFinger> Read all the Sprawl trilogy before any of his other work!
[04:12:01] <NezSez> James Rollins?
[04:12:15] <SpallsHurgenson> now, so much of the genre he helped create has been pulled into other, better novels and Gibsons characters and stories often require more effort than they are worth. IMHO, of course :)
[04:12:35] <NezSez> I like Terry Pratchett of course
[04:12:56] <SpallsHurgenson> I keep trying Baxter but - for reasons I've never quite put my finger on - can't get into his novels
[04:13:11] <SpallsHurgenson> Vernor Vinge, for some good space-opera :)
[04:13:30] <SpallsHurgenson> Terry Pratchett is someone I've been meaning to read, but honestly the size of his corpus is intimidating :)
[04:13:46] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean, what if I LIKE him? I'll have to get all those books! :)
[04:13:55] <BadCoderFinger> Start with "The Colour of Magic"
[04:14:18] <NezSez> LOL if you like monty python you'll like TP
[04:14:19] <BadCoderFinger> If you don't like that, then there's no point.
[04:14:23] <drgibbon> worth the effort? Neuromancer is awesome :)
[04:14:30] <SpallsHurgenson> erm... can't remember his name; Polish author who wrote Solaris. Love 'im
[04:14:41] <BadCoderFinger> Stanislaw Lem
[04:14:43] <NezSez> oh yeah Solaris was good
[04:14:59] <SpallsHurgenson> Yes, Lem. Solaris might not be the best short story to start with, though
[04:15:04] <BadCoderFinger> The book was great, the movie was decent.
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[04:15:09] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v bytram] by FortuneTeller
[04:15:21] <NezSez> yeah, the movie was ok
[04:15:34] <SpallsHurgenson> what was it, the Cyberiad that was fairy tales as written by robots?
[04:15:35] <BadCoderFinger> But you need to have read the book first to appreciate the movie.
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[04:16:17] <SpallsHurgenson> very character driven and sort of comic-bookish, but Julian May's "Pliocine Exile" was fun.
[04:16:35] <NezSez> yes, as is often the case (take 2001 a space odessey as an example of some)
[04:16:51] <NezSez> s/some/same
[04:16:52] * SedBot offers NozSiz a /
[04:16:56] <NezSez> doh!
[04:17:00] <SpallsHurgenson> and - somewhat related - Harry Harrison's "West of Eden" trilogy
[04:17:11] <NezSez> he's gonna insult me forever <sigh>
[04:17:24] <SpallsHurgenson> and about half of Crichton's books are worth reading (which half is always under debate :)
[04:17:36] <BadCoderFinger> NezSez: It must be love!
[04:17:49] <NezSez> I have note read either of them
[04:17:56] <NezSez> s/note/not/
[04:17:56] <SedBot> <NezSez> I have not read either of them
[04:18:22] <BadCoderFinger> See! You can master sed scripts!
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[04:18:55] <SpallsHurgenson> "West of Eden" is basically, "what if the dinosaurs evolved into a sentient species and all their technology was biological... and then they ran into homo sapiens" :)
[04:19:00] <NezSez> oh i've done lotso sed/awk but not in many years :)
[04:19:43] <NezSez> went the perl route and pcre ya know, then python
[04:19:57] <NezSez> just now gettin around to playing with ruby (just cause)
[04:20:11] <SpallsHurgenson> it ends up being a little bit of "Battlefield Earth" crossed with "Clan of the Cave Bear" at times, but it's still interesting enough :)
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[04:20:24] <BadCoderFinger> Ruby is a good direction.
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[04:21:09] <BadCoderFinger> Wow, Battlefield Earth takes me back...
[04:21:19] <BadCoderFinger> I wish it didn't suck.
[04:21:27] <SpallsHurgenson> well, look who wrote it :)
[04:21:42] <SpallsHurgenson> as a purely pulp sci-fi adventure, it wasn't absolutely terrible
[04:21:49] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, started a wacktacular religion on a bar bet!
[04:21:53] <NezSez> badc: well it's got some performance issues in an enterprise env compared to even python
[04:22:20] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean, it was basically low-brow Flash Gordon stuff, but as a book it was... well... it wasn't absolutely awful :)
[04:22:29] <BadCoderFinger> "High performance script" Yeah right!
[04:22:32] <NezSez> a wacktacular religion run from a boat that wasn't allowed to dock in any decent country :)
[04:22:52] <BadCoderFinger> NezSez: With good reason.
[04:23:52] <SpallsHurgenson> you want absolutely awful sci-fi, try slogging through Hubbard's ten volume "Mission Earth" decalogy.
[04:24:12] <BadCoderFinger> Luckily I was warned off it.
[04:24:18] <NezSez> badc: oh sure, spawning intense disk IO scripts across 2500 servers sharing NAS on compeliant with VM clusters. Yes perfermance and concurrency matter.
[04:24:56] <SpallsHurgenson> sadly, I was not. And I was such a nice, promising lad when I started reading it too :)
[04:25:04] <BadCoderFinger> NezSez: Yup. That's why I write in C.
[04:25:26] <BadCoderFinger> SpallsHurgenson: Man, my condolences.
[04:25:39] * SpallsHurgenson writes in DOS Batch :)
[04:25:41] <NezSez> badc: dammnit......you must be the only person i've ever ever talked to to say that. I agree completely. seriously
[04:26:37] <BadCoderFinger> I have a rule: Over 500 lines, and I rewrite it in C.
[04:26:58] <Titanium> BadCoderFinger do you do much web development?
[04:27:26] <NezSez> if you have to collate/gather yeah it's a pain, but NOONE i've ever worked with bother to use a compiled lang.....they only want perl/python/powershell
[04:27:35] <BadCoderFinger> Web development? No, I'm an embedded guy.
[04:27:50] <NezSez> I mean gather in the scatter/gather sense of parallel
[04:28:01] <BadCoderFinger> I like being close to the metal.
[04:28:11] <Titanium> i like java
[04:28:19] <NezSez> badc: you play with the beaglebone, Rasp pi, et. al. any?
[04:28:36] <Titanium> it compiles to be almost as fast as c (if you ignore the features java adds that are slow)
[04:28:40] <BadCoderFinger> NezSez: Two threading models: OpenMP and pthreads.
[04:29:23] <BadCoderFinger> Titanium: Yes... and no. C has issues, that's for sure, but when it's fast, nothing beats it.
[04:29:32] <NezSez> oh no, many more than that....OpenCL, mpich (the father of openMP), pvm, etc etc
[04:30:10] <NezSez> pthreads ain't the only threads, and some "threads" aren't threads they are actual processes (the linux kernel does this under the hood for example)
[04:30:16] <BadCoderFinger> Nah, MPICH is nothing like OpenMP.
[04:30:21] <Titanium> i just need fast, not as fast as possible as its a 20 mhz cpu
[04:30:40] <Titanium> i got hundreds of 2+ ghz cores, speed doesnt matter that much :)
[04:30:51] <NezSez> no...it's the father of it...i don't think any one really uses it anymore do they????
[04:31:02] <BadCoderFinger> And Linux does threads like normal, LWPs. You can get user threads with pth, but ugh.
[04:32:19] <BadCoderFinger> Titanium: Then you need to pay attention to the machine, heh. Cache sizes, how big the pipeline is, etc.
[04:33:11] <NezSez> ccnuma, striding etc
[04:33:13] <BadCoderFinger> MPI is based on message passing, where OpenMP is auto-parallelization in a non-invasive level.
[04:33:48] <BadCoderFinger> You can get better performance with pthreads, but OpenMP is easy.
[04:34:06] <NezSez> i'm pretty sure the kernel sees threads as processes (I'm certain in 2.4, but maybe it's changed in 3.x I could be wrong)
[04:34:23] <BadCoderFinger> NezSez: In Linux, yes.
[04:34:40] <NezSez> yeah sure, SGI tried that, so did Sun, the "you don't need to know just use these 14 keywords" approach
[04:34:51] <BadCoderFinger> In Solaris, not really. Both LWPs and User threads are possible.
[04:35:20] <NezSez> no i'm meant the "easy" OpenMP equivalents (there have been many attempts)
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[04:36:12] <BadCoderFinger> The advantage of LWP style threads is that they compete with other processes for time slices. User threads use the one time slice.
[04:36:21] <NezSez> SGI came an "tutored" us on their OpenMP equiv when we got an Origin 2000
[04:36:24] <BadCoderFinger> Oh, heh.
[04:37:00] <BadCoderFinger> I've written some OpenMP code. It's not bad, but it could be a lot better.
[04:37:24] <NezSez> on the threads: yes the scheduler was a reason the linux kernel guys decided to just implement them as regular processes initially I think
[04:38:13] <BadCoderFinger> OpenMP will spawn threads, but at a loop level granularity. On X86, this isn't too bad, but on a RISC, this bites.
[04:38:28] <NezSez> wow, that just reminded me of the whole Kolivas scheduler thing
[04:38:51] * BadCoderFinger admits he kept up with Con Kolivas.
[04:39:21] <NezSez> LOL it seems like he was a really decent guy to me
[04:40:06] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, me too.
[04:40:08] <NezSez> I never understood why he got so much blowback from the kernel republican guard
[04:40:21] <BadCoderFinger> Like any club, I guess.
[04:40:34] <NezSez> I mean, damn he was productive ya know, and a fast learner too
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[04:41:04] <BadCoderFinger> Hans Reiser got a lot of flack, but then he killed his ex-wife.
[04:41:30] <NezSez> badc: what do you think about systemd and the whole udev arguments?
[04:41:54] <NezSez> oh man.....what a bizzaro story that is....i mean *DAMN*
[04:42:21] <BadCoderFinger> Well, that's a can of worms. I can tell you what I think, but I can't tell you what to think.
[04:42:21] <NezSez> reiser i mean
[04:42:26] <BadCoderFinger> I hate systemd.
[04:42:50] <NezSez> LOL, okay so you are an "old school" type? (I don't like it either FTR)
[04:43:07] <BadCoderFinger> I think it's a huge overcomplication of what should be bloody simple: starting the system.
[04:43:24] <NezSez> LOL exactly
[04:43:40] <BadCoderFinger> I use OpenRC. On Arch. Which isn
[04:44:08] <BadCoderFinger> I use OpenRC. On Arch. Which isn't easy, but I want my machine to run what I tell it, and only what I tell it.
[04:44:15] <NezSez> believe me when I say, I don't need anyone to tell me what to think, or do, so don't worry I'll never assume that.
[04:44:38] <NezSez> yes, and only when you tell it which is critical as well
[04:44:53] <Titanium> you can tell people what to think
[04:44:55] <BadCoderFinger> Most of my machines are servers, and they boot once a year.
[04:44:57] <Titanium> they usually get mad
[04:45:19] <Titanium> if you only reboot your servers once a year, you aren't troubleshooting right
[04:45:22] <Titanium> :P
[04:45:31] <NezSez> Titan: true that! Also, I had to resist referring to you as Tit: :)
[04:45:44] <BadCoderFinger> Yes, I am. I monitor the security on each.
[04:46:09] <Titanium> i have been blocked by stpuid profanity filters before :(
[04:47:07] <NezSez> Tita: (Tita in Tagalog means "aunt" just so you know)
[04:47:37] <BadCoderFinger> I build the firewalls carefully, and the services get restarted, but I avoid restarting the metal, unless there's a kernel update which affects security.
[04:47:40] <NezSez> and no, i'm not Filipino. (Hindi ako Pilipino)
[04:48:27] <NezSez> i'm with badc on that. I go to great lengths to not reboot so as to disrupt services as little as possible for the users
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[04:49:56] <BadCoderFinger> If there's a security update that needs rebooting, I reboot. Better safe than sorry.
[04:50:10] <NezSez> I had a sparc Ent3000 with ext FC RAID than provided services for over three years with out a single reboot while maintaining all updates but a few kernel ones.
[04:50:54] <BadCoderFinger> Heh! I had a server with 2 years of uptime before Hurricane Ivan forced us to shut it down.
[04:51:06] <NezSez> It only was rebooted after a citywide power outage that lasted longer than the 7 hours the backup generator provided :(
[04:51:45] <NezSez> Hurricane Ivan? Where was this?
[04:52:01] <BadCoderFinger> 2005
[04:52:14] <BadCoderFinger> Pensacola, FL, USA
[04:52:22] <NezSez> ah.....
[04:53:01] <BadCoderFinger> I've since moved back to Denver.
[04:53:03] <NezSez> I think I saw videos of some datacenter there showing the water rushing into the foyer like two foot deep
[04:53:18] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, it was no fun.
[04:53:33] <NezSez> wow, yes that would be a real pain
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[04:55:22] <NezSez> was your box in a datacenter at the time, or just in some server room or office?
[04:55:48] <BadCoderFinger> Heh, a server room. Luckily on a second floor.
[04:56:05] <NezSez> badc: yeah you say that but....
[04:56:08] <BadCoderFinger> Came back, as well as our Sun machines.
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[04:56:37] <NezSez> I had a friend who as the admin for a english dept at TTU some years ago.....
[04:57:33] <NezSez> they got a brand spankin new bldg and he got a datacenter style (albeit very small) room for the server in it's design......halogen extinguishers, floor times, the works
[04:58:10] <NezSez> he thought "after 15 yrs of jury riggin and prays, finally I'm safe"
[04:58:58] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[04:59:01] <NezSez> about 6 months after they moved in, a bathroom leak on the 4rth floof ran down the hall and into a maintanence room which was
[04:59:19] <NezSez> you guessed it.....directly above his 3rd floor datacenter room :)
[04:59:47] <BadCoderFinger> Man, that's awful!
[04:59:51] <NezSez> all that planning <sigh>
[05:00:03] <NezSez> that's a true story (as all my stories are FTR)
[05:00:31] <NezSez> you can call him if you want, he's at New Mexico State now
[05:00:37] <NezSez> Chad
[05:00:39] <NezSez> :)
[05:01:10] <NezSez> I was so sad for him when it happened I almost cried
[05:02:54] <BadCoderFinger> I mostly do security lately, so I know about being in a thankless job.
[05:03:47] <BadCoderFinger> If you do your job well, nobody notices,
[05:04:08] <NezSez> yes that's true
[05:04:19] <NezSez> ah so you know what NOP sleds are :)
[05:04:26] <BadCoderFinger> Do it wrong, the bad guys get in, and you're fired.
[05:04:41] <NezSez> that too
[05:04:48] <BadCoderFinger> Yes, yes I do know.
[05:05:42] <NezSez> more frequently I found that some idiot manager prevented me from implementing a security feature ( "Don't waste time on that"), then it'd get exploited, then they'd act all upset and try to find someone to blame
[05:05:50] <BadCoderFinger> Although my servers run ASLR with binaries compiled with stack sentinels, so NOP sleds won't help you.
[05:07:00] <NezSez> I recently was reading about ways to defeat the random addres allocations by using callbacks and system libs
[05:07:43] <NezSez> FTR no I don't crack (except myself accidentally), but I do read up on these things some
[05:08:01] <BadCoderFinger> "Return to libc" attacks.
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[05:09:01] <Titanium> i found new exploits before, its fun
[05:09:02] <NezSez> yes libc was the standard example lib because of it's widespread use, but it's not the only one, and there are counter measures now too (and yeah they've found ways around those too already)
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[05:10:06] <NezSez> Titan: in stock system files or particular software programs or what?
[05:10:09] <BadCoderFinger> It's a war of escalation.
[05:10:37] <Titanium> an appliance
[05:10:46] <NezSez> badc: yeah I don't wanna play it anymore, but I do find it interesting reading
[05:11:04] <NezSez> Titan: ah yeah that happens don't it :)
[05:11:20] <NezSez> <---- scared shitless about "smart" cars
[05:11:26] <Titanium> well, people pay 6-7 figures for them ;)
[05:11:50] <BadCoderFinger> So you start by securing the network, securing the server, securing the service.
[05:12:14] <NezSez> ya know, growing up, I never dreamed I might be spied on by my fridgerator
[05:12:20] <Titanium> not really an appliance... a datacenter switch
[05:12:46] <BadCoderFinger> What happens if they get a user account? Can they get root? Can they compromise other systems? etc.
[05:13:59] <BadCoderFinger> It's never one thing. It's trying to mitigate every step of an exploit.
[05:14:10] <NezSez> defense in depth
[05:15:34] <BadCoderFinger> But like I said, you do the best you can, and your non-technical boss says, "You're a cost center. We haven't been compromised, therefore you cost money for no benefit."
[05:15:41] <BadCoderFinger> And you get laid off.
[05:15:52] <NezSez> yup
[05:15:55] <Titanium> in my experience my boss doesnt care
[05:15:59] <Titanium> thinks its interesting
[05:16:06] <Titanium> the security team thinks its a problem
[05:16:16] <NezSez> or reassigned to another team to tidy up some Cobol :)
[05:16:21] <Titanium> and the developers are terrified of the security people as they can make their life difficult
[05:16:38] <Titanium> so its a good environment to find bugs like that :)
[05:16:42] <NezSez> Titan: yup I've seen that
[05:16:57] <BadCoderFinger> But I have to do my best anyway. I'm proud of my record so far. There's always someone smarter, but you can't give up because of that.
[05:17:28] <Titanium> i would like to send you the CVE id of them, but probably not a good idea
[05:18:18] <NezSez> these chats are logged FTR
[05:18:24] <BadCoderFinger> Dear god, shoot cobol in the face with a bazooka, then shoot it again in case it survived!
[05:18:49] <Titanium> wheres the log?
[05:18:53] <NezSez> and can be posted publicly (like the whole affair with that guy getting banned the other day)
[05:18:59] <Titanium> i was gone for the drama
[05:19:09] <NezSez> yeah I was here but not in that channel
[05:19:22] <BadCoderFinger> I was there for part of it.
[05:20:03] <Titanium> i wish i was around
[05:20:06] <Titanium> i would have bought it
[05:20:26] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, I thought he was serious.
[05:20:31] <NezSez> badc: from the logs that mattie put up....seemed like that guy was on that wacky drug that ppl go bezerk on....bath salts or crocodile something like that
[05:20:46] <BadCoderFinger> Heh! Could be.
[05:20:49] <Titanium> or maybe he has a cat?
[05:21:52] <BadCoderFinger> A cat that poops bath salts?
[05:22:03] <NezSez> he was just ranting....not even connected to anything anyone else was saying at all some times
[05:22:16] <Titanium> cats do that
[05:22:24] <Titanium> wait, were they words?
[05:22:33] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, probably just trolling.
[05:22:35] <NezSez> oh weasel bath salts I heard about that......weasel eats.....then you ...<shrug>
[05:23:39] <BadCoderFinger> You eat people after smoking bath salts! I wonder why the site is named SoylentNews?
[05:23:44] <NezSez> I got some weasel coffee from a friend from vietnam once.....this is true....i had the coffee beans in a ziplock in the freezer.....
[05:23:45] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[05:24:08] <NezSez> freezer not fridge....and they grew mold! no joke. I never got to even try it.
[05:24:21] <BadCoderFinger> The civet cat coffee?
[05:24:35] <NezSez> yes that
[05:24:39] <NezSez> very expensive
[05:25:06] <NezSez> I could not believe that something could grow at that temp
[05:25:41] <BadCoderFinger> Freezer mold does defy most of what I know about.
[05:26:05] <NezSez> I don't think I've ever seen any type of growth in a freezer before, or since
[05:26:48] <NezSez> well i'm not a microbiologist.....it just look like mold ya know.....no idea what it really was but I sure as hell wasn't gonna brew it!
[05:27:19] <BadCoderFinger> But we've discovered worms in arctic ice, apparently quite happy.
[05:27:30] <NezSez> LOL
[05:28:19] <NezSez> not too long ago they found new life forms at depths in the ocean sorta the opposite of the thermal vents
[05:28:52] <BadCoderFinger> The tenacity of life is a constant amazement.
[05:28:54] <NezSez> there is an ocean under the ocean......liquid methane or something like that cause it's cold
[05:29:24] <BadCoderFinger> You mean that lake like structure they found?
[05:29:36] <NezSez> and around it grows plants, crabs, shrimp and the aninome things....and they have a hithertoo believed not possible chemical base
[05:29:40] <BadCoderFinger> That was just very briny water, I think.
[05:30:22] <NezSez> no this has a high concentration of some element or gas in liquid form...like grass growing around it
[05:30:31] <BadCoderFinger> But yes, we keep finding life in odd places.
[05:31:08] <NezSez> I can't remember what show I saw it on, but I don't have cable so it was almost definitely pbs
[05:31:09] <BadCoderFinger> Like that odd bacteria growing so far under the surface.
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[05:31:27] <NezSez> what? really I didn't hear about this....do tell
[05:32:13] <NezSez> brb
[05:32:49] <BadCoderFinger> Just a very simple bacteria strain underground, but bloody far underground. Never seen sunlight, no immediately discernable energy source.
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[05:33:39] <BadCoderFinger> Hey prospectacle
[05:33:49] <prospectacle> How's it going, BadCoderFinger?
[05:34:25] <BadCoderFinger> Not bad. Got 16GB of RAM in the craptop, so I'm quite happy.
[05:34:45] <prospectacle> Nice. Never need to close anything
[05:34:51] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[05:34:52] <NezSez> back
[05:35:06] <NezSez> hola prospectacle
[05:35:58] <prospectacle> Hi NezSez.
[05:36:06] <BadCoderFinger> I can run a complex set of virtual machines at the same time and never hit swap.
[05:36:07] <prospectacle> Your name confuses my fingers. I hope that's intentional
[05:36:09] <NezSez> i put 16g of ddr3 2000hz corsair in my desktop a few months ago......
[05:36:41] <NezSez> so far i have not used more than 4gig at any one time <insert sound of money whooosing down drain here>
[05:37:20] <BadCoderFinger> I put /tmp in a ramdisk, and build code in there.
[05:37:21] <prospectacle> Well there's something to be said for peace of mind from a buffer. I've got 10 packets of noodles in the cupboard but so far I've never used more than 2 in a day. Better to have some left over just in case.
[05:37:33] <NezSez> LOL
[05:38:27] <NezSez> well i curently dual boot (yeah i know archaic) but plan to go KVM so I can use valgrind and various vms for eas of restore
[05:38:37] <NezSez> s/eas/ease/
[05:38:37] <SedBot> <NezSez> well i curently dual boot (yeah i know archaic) but plan to go KVM so I can use valgrind and various vms for ease of restore
[05:39:09] <prospectacle> Seems like VMS are the range now that ram and storage are relatively cheap. No reinstalling, no fucking about with borked systems, just make another VM and do some work in it.
[05:39:11] <NezSez> I'm so sick of spending so much time repairing dev environs when some update goes south
[05:39:32] <BadCoderFinger> BTRFS with snapshots.
[05:39:58] <NezSez> man i've been waiting for a couple of years to go production with btrfs
[05:40:14] <NezSez> it seems to be pretty stable now
[05:40:16] <BadCoderFinger> I'm running it now with no problems.
[05:40:33] <NezSez> ah good to know, your host OS is arch ?
[05:40:38] <prospectacle> Just had to look up btrfs snapshots. Looks like a good idea.
[05:40:40] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah.
[05:40:50] <NezSez> FTR I did like ZFS on sparc
[05:41:14] <NezSez> well pre oracle at least
[05:41:23] <prospectacle> So do you just go :# snapshot /etc/something /backup20140315 and you can just restore it later?
[05:41:26] <prospectacle> or something
[05:41:27] <BadCoderFinger> It's only a good idea with COW, otherwise it's like HAMMER from Dragonfly.
[05:41:54] <BadCoderFinger> prospectacle: Yes, almost exactly like that.
[05:41:55] <NezSez> COW?
[05:42:25] <NezSez> I've seen the term, have no idea what it is
[05:42:29] <BadCoderFinger> You can mark a snapshot as the normal one, or have it look like an additional mount.
[05:42:33] <chromas> copy-on-write
[05:42:44] <BadCoderFinger> Copy-on-write
[05:42:45] <NezSez> oh gotcha
[05:42:48] <BadCoderFinger> (Heh)
[05:43:05] <NezSez> yes the buffering can be an issue with any snapshot setup
[05:43:39] <NezSez> i thought pass-thru was the preferred setting to preserve as much data as possible no?
[05:44:07] <NezSez> (in the case of a serious failure i mean)
[05:44:12] <BadCoderFinger> So you have a file, and you copy it to a backup. Only the blocks you change are stored, so the two files don't take up as much space as two distinct copies.
[05:45:09] <NezSez> right, so passthrough for the system buffers, but cow to the backup makes sense
[05:45:44] <BadCoderFinger> Apply that to a whole filesystem, so you make a snapshot before apt-get upgrade
[05:45:51] <prospectacle> Interesting.
[05:45:54] <NezSez> what about the metadata like update on access etc you disable those too?
[05:46:22] <NezSez> (to minimize what's backed up)
[05:46:40] <BadCoderFinger> The metadata is COW as well, but once it diverges each journal is a separate replay.
[05:47:12] <BadCoderFinger> So, you're still fine if power drops.
[05:47:18] <NezSez> gotcha.
[05:47:53] <NezSez> so you do have the system set to passthru write yes?
[05:47:59] <BadCoderFinger> But the metadata means that the update occured, or didn't. So you might miss an update. You control this with a mount option
[05:48:12] <BadCoderFinger> At the block layer, yes.
[05:48:13] <NezSez> (so you don't lose buffer content in a failure)
[05:48:24] <BadCoderFinger> Right.
[05:48:28] <NezSez> gotcha
[05:48:51] <NezSez> yes I'm going to have to try this
[05:49:02] <BadCoderFinger> On my craptop, I have commit=600, so metadata is flushed after it is 10 minutes old.
[05:49:29] <NezSez> just for the heck of it i'll bite.....
[05:49:34] <BadCoderFinger> So I can lose files, but they won't be in an inconsistent state.
[05:49:34] <NezSez> what is your craptop?
[05:49:35] <NezSez> :)
[05:49:49] <BadCoderFinger> Samsung Ativ Book 6
[05:49:57] <NezSez> ah
[05:50:15] <BadCoderFinger> Pretty good so far.
[05:50:34] <NezSez> is that an arm or standard intel/amd cpu?
[05:50:47] <BadCoderFinger> It's a quad i7
[05:50:51] <BadCoderFinger> Intel.
[05:50:55] <NezSez> sweet
[05:50:59] <BadCoderFinger> ATI graphics,
[05:51:10] <BadCoderFinger> Comes with 8GB RAM
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[05:51:27] <NezSez> oh...which ATI/AMD graphics cchip?
[05:51:37] <BadCoderFinger> And a 1TB spinning drive. That's the worst part, I miss my speedy SSD
[05:51:56] <BadCoderFinger> 01:00.0 Display controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Mars [Radeon HD 8670A/8750M]
[05:52:04] <NezSez> I've had a bit of trouble with an OC gigabyte HD radeon 7970
[05:52:05] <prospectacle> Do any filesystems have an undo? Like you can go equivalent of ctrl+z a bunch of times and you're back to yesterday?
[05:52:41] <BadCoderFinger> Eh, there is undelete for several of them, but it can be iffy.
[05:53:07] <NezSez> I got two velocoraptor 10K 500gb drives and striped them, benched them against a crucial 256gb ssd
[05:53:16] <BadCoderFinger> DragonFly's HAMMER is probably the best at that, but it's not very space efficient.
[05:53:59] <SirFinkus> probably could be done on zfs or btrfs, just create a snapshot every time the fs is modified and delete them strategically
[05:54:05] <BadCoderFinger> BTRFS is great at it, but it's a manual process.
[05:54:08] <SirFinkus> I shudder at the performance impact that might have
[05:54:09] <NezSez> bang for the buck (at the time I got them all) the 10k drives striped were almost the same speed as the ssd
[05:54:54] <NezSez> they are a lot nosier, and can't tolerate a jolt though
[05:55:05] <BadCoderFinger> That's pretty nifty, though.
[05:55:17] <prospectacle> Yeah the fs would need to be designed for it (undo) to avoid horrible performance issues.
[05:56:11] <SirFinkus> something like Time Machine is pretty close, granularity of an hour though
[05:56:30] <BadCoderFinger> And you have to use a Mac, heh!
[05:56:35] <prospectacle> lol
[05:56:39] <SirFinkus> true
[05:57:05] <SirFinkus> I think there's a linux copy somewhere too
[05:57:08] <SirFinkus> forgot the name
[05:57:09] <BadCoderFinger> I'd take a Mac over windows any day, but I love my Linux machines!
[05:57:26] <NezSez> i like macosx
[05:57:38] <SirFinkus> I prefer OSX to windows because unix
[05:57:41] <NezSez> not better than linux, but it's good
[05:57:57] <NezSez> bsd is good too
[05:58:03] <BadCoderFinger> I love focus-follows-mouse, and you can't do that on a Mac.
[05:58:47] <BadCoderFinger> I hate the menus at the top of the screen, too.
[05:58:53] <NezSez> galaxy note3 has focus-follows-eyes ehehehe
[05:59:00] <BadCoderFinger> But that's just my preference.
[05:59:18] <SirFinkus> I don't think focus follows mouse would work with the universal menu bars
[05:59:24] <NezSez> badc: does your craptop have that samsung eyes thing?
[05:59:40] <BadCoderFinger> I have a Mac at work, and it's ok. It takes a lot of homebrew to get it up to snuff, though.
[05:59:53] <NezSez> or is that just something they are doing on their tablets (arm)?
[06:00:00] <BadCoderFinger> NezSez: Not that I know of, heh!
[06:00:22] <NezSez> badc: i'm not joking, they have focus-follows-your-eyes
[06:00:37] <NezSez> uses the front camera of the phone/tablet
[06:00:44] <BadCoderFinger> Mine doesn't, that I can tell.
[06:00:56] <SirFinkus> sounds terrible, unless it works really really well
[06:00:57] <BadCoderFinger> I never booted windows on it, though.
[06:01:07] <SirFinkus> more than 99% accuracy
[06:01:19] <BadCoderFinger> That's a bit freaky.
[06:01:33] <NezSez> everytime I phone surf or txt on the ol' toilet I think "some korean samsung spy is getting images of me grimacing from a long squak" :)
[06:01:48] <BadCoderFinger> Heh! Ew!
[06:02:06] <BadCoderFinger> They'll end up on the net before too long.
[06:02:12] <NezSez> yup
[06:02:17] <BadCoderFinger> Then you'll know for sure!
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[06:02:40] <SirFinkus> at this point, I just assume any device I use is rooted
[06:02:51] <NezSez> it's all on some obscure korean kink site now i'm guessing
[06:03:20] <BadCoderFinger> "Look at the roundeye! He poops very hard!"
[06:03:22] <NezSez> sirF: yeah, it doesn't work to well as far as I can tell
[06:03:27] <NezSez> LOL
[06:03:59] <NezSez> "Hahahaha, rooky amerikan doofus makey face!"
[06:04:31] <BadCoderFinger> I tape the camera on the laptops at work. If they aren't rooted by the manufacturer, then our IT has done it.
[06:04:58] <NezSez> ah yes, I taped my phone and all the laptops too
[06:06:09] <NezSez> I'm surprised that no one has marketed a silicon slip on cover to block the cameras
[06:06:34] <SirFinkus> http://www.amazon.com
[06:06:37] <MrBluze> BadCoderFinger: right
[06:07:07] <BadCoderFinger> SirFinkus: HA! You win!
[06:07:33] <MrBluze> how to disable mics?
[06:07:47] <NezSez> moana git me suma doze
[06:07:56] <SirFinkus> remove them I guess
[06:07:58] <NezSez> good question
[06:08:21] <SirFinkus> whatever happened with that acoustically transmitted bios malware?
[06:08:24] <SirFinkus> was that bs?
[06:08:27] <NezSez> solder gun
[06:08:38] <NezSez> LOL i remember that sirF
[06:09:15] <NezSez> I don't think it was bogus per se, but it was actually limited to a very specific device bios as I recall
[06:09:19] <MrBluze> u cant have a conversation anymore wiyhout knowing there is a 3rd party listening
[06:10:25] <SirFinkus> I just don't remember anything conclusive coming out NezSez
[06:12:02] <NezSez> sirF: that's what i'm saying....I think it was confirmed, however it was *only* for a *very* specific bios on a specific device that had acoustic inputs that almost no normal bios has anyway
[06:12:41] <NezSez> it's late and I might be totally wrong, but I remember that much
[06:13:20] <BadCoderFinger> SirFinkus: I'm pretty sure that was BS. I think it was between infected machines.
[06:14:06] <SirFinkus> neat to theorize about anyway
[06:14:07] <NezSez> now that would be funny
[06:14:53] <NezSez> there is of course a way to infect humans with viral ideas acoustically. speech.
[06:15:07] <SirFinkus> I watched a movie once, called fatal error
[06:15:19] <NezSez> doh you're infected then
[06:15:22] <SirFinkus> the plot was that cable boxes transmitted computer viruses to humans
[06:15:29] <SirFinkus> which turned them to stone
[06:15:41] <NezSez> hey that seems vaguely familiar
[06:15:49] <prospectacle> That happened to me once SirFinkus
[06:15:55] <NezSez> was that on netflix by any chance?
[06:16:12] <SirFinkus> idk, I think I saw it on scifi channel or something
[06:16:17] <NezSez> I remember seeing the cover art
[06:16:26] <NezSez> and reading the summary
[06:16:43] <NezSez> was it any good, or as bad as it sounds like it must be?
[06:17:09] <SirFinkus> it was entertaining
[06:17:22] <SirFinkus> there was a "hacking" scene where a guy was fighting his computer
[06:17:27] <BadCoderFinger> SirFinkus: Wasn't that a really bad 80s movie with a wrestler? Then a 90s movie by Clive Barker?
[06:17:35] <SirFinkus> and he got electrocuted by his keyboard
[06:17:46] <SirFinkus> http://www.imdb.com
[06:17:49] <NezSez> LOL
[06:18:34] <NezSez> did you ever see the "Hackers" movie that angelina jolie was in?
[06:18:39] <BadCoderFinger> "They Live" with Rowdy Roddy Piper?
[06:18:46] <SirFinkus> of course
[06:19:18] <NezSez> oh man They Live was hilarious the first time I saw it
[06:19:21] <BadCoderFinger> I will never admit to seeing that horrific travesty. Also there was only one Highlander movie.
[06:19:30] <NezSez> not so much years later though
[06:19:41] <SirFinkus> yeah, it's worth a watch if you can find it
[06:19:44] <NezSez> I concur badc
[06:20:01] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[06:20:23] <NezSez> "hackers" now that was travesty
[06:21:00] <BadCoderFinger> I mean, we're geeks. We expect Hollywood to get it wrong. But Hackers was just too much. "Hack the Toilet."
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[06:22:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Companies Back Away From Ripping Software - http://sylnt.us - move-to-antigua-instead
[06:22:08] <NezSez> for me, hackers was one of those kinda films were you just feel so embarrased for the actors n crew that it was actually painful to watch due to empathy
[06:22:38] <NezSez> "Swordfish" was like that for me too
[06:22:53] <BadCoderFinger> Ugh! Another travesty!
[06:23:16] <SirFinkus> well, pretty much any movie with "hacking" in it is pretty cringeworthy
[06:23:27] <NezSez> i mean c'mon, Pen saying "they released a rabbit" and then a graphic image of a rabbit running across the monitors. <shrug>
[06:23:31] <BadCoderFinger> Stop with the bad movies, NezSez, or we'll burn you for a witch!
[06:23:40] <chromas> Hey now Swordfish was accurate. I know from experience that if you point a gun at somebody then their computer speeds up
[06:23:45] <SirFinkus> that latest Bond propaganda film for instance
[06:24:18] <NezSez> hey dang it, i'm made of wood you insensitive clod therefore I float
[06:24:29] <NezSez> LOL chromas
[06:24:34] * BadCoderFinger gets a duck.
[06:24:40] <NezSez> lol
[06:24:56] <BadCoderFinger> We'll see who floats!
[06:24:57] <prospectacle> Anyone seen tekwar?
[06:25:01] <NezSez> "The net"
[06:25:03] <BadCoderFinger> Ugh!
[06:25:08] * NezSez actually ducks
[06:25:33] <BadCoderFinger> Shatner's ghostwritten mess!
[06:25:34] <NezSez> yeah, I cringed mightily during that film
[06:25:35] <prospectacle> it's on the hulu if not. Based on books by william shatner about a future with addictive "technological" drugs of some kind.
[06:25:53] <NezSez> oh tekwar ?
[06:26:12] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah. Bad.
[06:26:13] <prospectacle> Started out promising. They predicted flat screens and video calling fairly well. Then it got to the "internet" and it was funny and sad at the same time and so i stopped
[06:26:52] <prospectacle> travelling around a bad 3d city environment "Yes I broke through their firewall" "Oh no they've found me"
[06:27:02] <NezSez> LOL
[06:27:22] * BadCoderFinger tries not to get violently ill.
[06:27:26] <NezSez> hey waitta minute.....were you a screenplay writer in the past?
[06:27:56] <prospectacle> Well it's not about the technology, you see, so it doesn't matter if I don't know anything about that. it's about the people, the relationships.
[06:28:00] <NezSez> aha....now Kill Bill there was a good one, albeit a different type of hacking
[06:28:13] * prospectacle is channelling the two screenwriters from that mitchell and webb look.
[06:28:21] <NezSez> lol
[06:28:35] <BadCoderFinger> To be fair, though, real cracking doesn't look that impressive. I mean, it't not like "exit 0" makes a nice graphic,
[06:29:24] * NezSez sends psychic message to Koen brothers so they will hire prospectacle to be in one of their films so they can kill him off like they do Buscemi
[06:29:35] <BadCoderFinger> HA!
[06:30:25] <prospectacle> BadCoderFinger, true.
[06:30:32] <BadCoderFinger> "Mr. prospectacle, your chipper is right over here."
[06:30:48] <NezSez> hey man, i always code a spiffy gui popup that says "Access Granted" when my perl or python haxor script completes
[06:30:50] * prospectacle tries to escape the mulcher. Ouch, that was my favourite limb
[06:31:06] <BadCoderFinger> make -n9 && echo 'Woohoo!'
[06:31:17] <BadCoderFinger> Makes a nice woohoo.
[06:31:30] <SirFinkus> what about the computer voice NezSez ?
[06:31:33] <NezSez> ehehe
[06:31:40] <SirFinkus> gotta pipe it to tts
[06:31:50] <BadCoderFinger> echo "Crack completed" | espeak
[06:31:58] <prospectacle> I just have my computer popup random, decorative "Danger, level 2 intrusion" and "Success! You have cracked the mainframe" messages every five minutes to keep me on my toes
[06:32:09] <SirFinkus> fun in a starbucks
[06:32:18] <NezSez> oh man, you must got 1337 skillz sirf.....the best I can do is sample HAL
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[06:32:37] <NezSez> LOL badc
[06:33:02] <BadCoderFinger> I love the fact that espeak sounds like Stephen Hawking
[06:33:13] <NezSez> does it by default?
[06:33:18] <BadCoderFinger> Yep!
[06:33:34] <NezSez> I'm gonna go out on a limb here.....
[06:33:59] <NezSez> but did any of you use the original SoundBlaster?
[06:34:26] <NezSez> the original i mean...8bit card
[06:34:31] <BadCoderFinger> You want to see your friends turn green, pipe some soft core porn through espeak. Stephen Hawking getting his freak on will wig them out.
[06:34:53] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, a LONG time ago, heh
[06:35:10] <NezSez> badc: ugh, reminds me of that donald duck getting a BJ audio that went around some years ago
[06:35:25] <BadCoderFinger> Before that it was tone generation on a Coleco Adam.
[06:35:40] <NezSez> i remember the adam
[06:36:04] <SirFinkus> http://translate.google.com is fun
[06:36:06] <NezSez> had an atari ST and commodore (vic20 et. al.)
[06:36:18] <SirFinkus> do the speech preview thing
[06:36:28] <NezSez> badc: what was the name of that talking parrot program they included with the SB????
[06:36:42] <NezSez> I remember the graphic but can't place the name
[06:36:49] <BadCoderFinger> My first computer, what a pile of crap. My second was a Timex-Sinclair with a membrane keyboard, hardly a step up.
[06:37:28] <NezSez> oh man I had a timex-sinclair...what was that the Z80 processor i think
[06:37:32] <NezSez> 4k
[06:37:34] <BadCoderFinger> NezSez: Holy crap, I can't remember, but I do remember messing with it!
[06:38:01] <BadCoderFinger> Only 2K, but you could get a 16K brick for it.
[06:38:12] <NezSez> badc: yeah I should know the name, later you could change the voice to "Simon"
[06:38:15] <prospectacle> Mine was green. It had ascii pacman. If you finished the level before the ghosts came back out of their pen, they woulnd't come back out until a pill expired on the next level
[06:38:49] <prospectacle> so if you were fast and precise you could keep the ghosts away indefinitely
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[06:38:52] <NezSez> i got a TI994A at some point
[06:39:17] <BadCoderFinger> Heh. I had an Amiga 500. First computer I ever loved.
[06:39:20] <NezSez> had to store extended basic programs on tape
[06:39:46] <NezSez> I wanted an amiga they had much better graphics/color capabilities
[06:39:57] <NezSez> no way to afford the trash-80 :)
[06:41:08] <BadCoderFinger> The TRS80, C64, and Amiga were all great learning computers. Mostly because to do ANYTHING, you had to break the rules.
[06:41:44] <NezSez> yeah I had a blast with them, learned cpm on the commodores
[06:41:49] <NezSez> basic on the TI
[06:41:56] <BadCoderFinger> Intellivision made a competitor to the TRS80, I think.
[06:42:34] <NezSez> yes I remember them; my sister got a console game box they made while i got an atari
[06:42:50] <NezSez> what ever happened to intellivision
[06:42:51] <NezSez> ?
[06:43:01] <NezSez> they just sorta dissappeared
[06:43:09] <BadCoderFinger> Died or got bought, I expect.
[06:43:32] <NezSez> _
[06:43:35] <NezSez> |
[06:43:41] <NezSez> __
[06:44:00] <NezSez> that is what the car looked like in the racing game LOL
[06:44:09] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[06:44:20] <NezSez> well this might be closer:
[06:44:28] <NezSez> __
[06:44:33] <NezSez> |
[06:44:36] <NezSez> __
[06:44:46] <NezSez> --
[06:44:54] <NezSez> hrm...well you get the idea
[06:44:58] <wjwlsn> i
[06:45:10] <NezSez> and guess what the "skier" looked like on the downhill race?
[06:45:27] <NezSez> ____
[06:45:30] <NezSez> |
[06:45:31] <BadCoderFinger> On the Adam it was an asterisk.
[06:45:34] <NezSez> --
[06:46:01] <BadCoderFinger> (Sorry to mess up your graphic!)
[06:46:07] <NezSez> just one asterisk? <rolls eyes> how archaic
[06:46:34] <NezSez> oh the graphic sucked anyway, but you saw them and know what I meant
[06:46:39] <BadCoderFinger> Oh yes. Quite advanced, heh!
[06:46:40] <NezSez> :)
[06:47:21] <NezSez> hey crap, with these kinda graphics skillz I could be 1337 consultant for Hollywood!
[06:47:51] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, you just need ANSI color codes.
[06:48:00] <NezSez> that blink
[06:48:05] <NezSez> a lot
[06:48:12] <BadCoderFinger> Not entirely unlike old BBS software.
[06:48:22] <BadCoderFinger> I kinda miss Wildcat.
[06:48:24] <NezSez> LOL oh yeah ascii art
[06:48:49] <NezSez> (_|_) <--- sitting woman from behind
[06:49:13] <NezSez> @@ young woman
[06:49:22] <NezSez> (,)(,) old lady
[06:49:38] <NezSez> i remember
[06:49:54] <NezSez> wildcat, what was the....oh yeah procomm
[06:50:18] <BadCoderFinger> Procomm! Sucked less than the rest of them.
[06:50:25] <NezSez> wow I haven't thought of that software in like 20 yrs or something
[06:50:31] <SirFinkus> ascii can be surprisingly expressive, just look at dwarf fortress
[06:50:40] <NezSez> dwarf fortress?
[06:50:54] <NezSez> yeah ascii is impressive actually
[06:51:01] <SirFinkus> don't tell me you haven't heard of dwarf fortress
[06:51:10] <NezSez> honestly I haven't
[06:51:22] <SirFinkus> http://www.bay12games.com
[06:51:27] <BadCoderFinger> I have, even tried to play it, with little success.
[06:51:28] <NezSez> i remember when CompuServe became available
[06:51:34] <prospectacle> {|:-)=|==< |) |
[06:51:41] <BadCoderFinger> Still, have to try though.
[06:51:52] <prospectacle> hmm didn't work out how i hoped, was meant to be a hoverboard
[06:51:53] <SirFinkus> think dungeon keeper + sim city + nethack
[06:51:55] <NezSez> looks like prospectacle knocked a totem pole over
[06:52:20] <NezSez> gotcha
[06:52:47] <SirFinkus> it's probably one of the most complex games ever made
[06:52:47] <NezSez> ok, gotta ask.....any bzflag players here?
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[06:53:22] <prospectacle> SirFinkus is dwarf fortress one of the ones that inspired mine-craft?
[06:53:27] <NezSez> man that background graphic is great on that website
[06:53:42] <SirFinkus> I've heard that prospectacle, but they really aren't similar at all
[06:53:57] <SirFinkus> dwarf fortress is a fantasy world simulator, minecraft is legos
[06:54:08] <NezSez> so this seems a bit more involved than hunt the wumpus huh
[06:54:16] <prospectacle> I see
[06:54:20] <SirFinkus> a little bit
[06:55:03] <SirFinkus> written by one guy, he lives on donations and works on the game pretty much all day every day
[06:55:23] <NezSez> um I was joking, wumpus was so simple see <sigh>
[06:55:34] <prospectacle> What a legend. That's my dream. Dream project + donations + enough donations to live on
[06:55:40] <NezSez> but this looks very impressive
[06:55:55] <NezSez> what's your dream project prosp?
[06:56:06] <FoobarBazbot_> 6
[06:56:25] <NezSez> brb
[06:56:37] <BadCoderFinger> Well folks, gotta run for the night and resume my diplomacy lessons (Blackadder reruns). Night!
[06:56:47] <SirFinkus> NYT even did a writeup http://www.nytimes.com
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[06:57:11] <prospectacle> NezSez: probably better scheduler. Most schedulers suck and are more time consuming than pen+paper. Or else a game, cause games are fun
[07:00:17] <NezSez> prosp: you mean scheduler as in calendar/location or kernel sense?
[07:00:46] <NezSez> god knows it's huge complex problem either way :)
[07:01:31] <NezSez> pen+paper for kernel is a good idea though :)
[07:03:15] <prospectacle> prosp: human sense. I figure 80% of a good plan/schedule is easily remembering the right parts at the right time. Something computers are good for.
[07:03:28] <prospectacle> oops I mean NezSez
[07:03:31] <prospectacle> going crazy
[07:03:33] <NezSez> prosp: there is a pretty good book about the guy that started Lotus123 who after selling out, tried to start a new project for scheduling and pim, email all integrated
[07:04:12] <NezSez> and the book documents how it flopped hard....it's available still the software i mean
[07:04:15] <prospectacle> That sounds interesting. Tempting (and dangerous) trap to fall into to try to make it all encompassing.
[07:04:42] <prospectacle> My intention is to make it do one thing well to start with (personal list/sublist/rough timelines) and if that's useful, for me, every day. Anything else is a bonus (other users, other features, etc
[07:05:13] <prospectacle> What was his software called?
[07:05:40] <chromas> emacs
[07:06:29] <FoobarBazbot_> lol
[07:06:30] <NezSez> LOL
[07:06:42] <NezSez> i think this is the software: http://en.wikipedia.org
[07:06:53] <NezSez> i'm trying to find the book title now
[07:09:06] <prospectacle> lol @ emacs
[07:09:16] <prospectacle> Thanks NezSez
[07:09:31] <chromas> Looks like Sidekick or Corel/InfoCentral
[07:09:50] <prospectacle> Someone showed me the other day if you say "note to self" to android, it emails you whatever you say next. I did not know this.
[07:09:51] <chromas> The Corel one had integrated Netscape Messenger
[07:11:53] <NezSez> dang, i can't find it but it was briefly a best seller....titled something like "dreaming in code" or "digital dreams"
[07:12:23] <NezSez> frequently sited next to "The mythical man month"
[07:12:59] <prospectacle> That's cool I'm sure I can find it based on the info you already said.
[07:13:15] <NezSez> ah....
[07:13:22] <NezSez> i think this is it: http://www.amazon.com
[07:13:38] <prospectacle> Writing an "ultimate, all encompassing" X is up there were "Rewriting from scratch" in terms of dooming yourself to failure
[07:14:02] <NezSez> LOL yup and that is exactly what the book is about
[07:14:09] <prospectacle> got it
[07:14:37] <NezSez> all the problems they had as the teams got bigger and had divergent goals etc etc
[07:14:48] <prospectacle> Classic
[07:15:04] <NezSez> yeah that's the book....Mitch Kapor
[07:16:05] <prospectacle> Thanks for interesting discussion + reading materials. I'm going out. Catch you later.
[07:16:07] <NezSez> and notice "The mythical man month" is the second link on the "frequently bought together" list :)
[07:16:16] <NezSez> nighters prosp
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[07:16:45] <NezSez> still there chromas?
[07:18:20] <NezSez> good night all thnx for the input!
[07:18:32] -!- NezSez [NezSez!~4c7061d7@j-78-064-32-800.hsd3.mi.comcast.net] has parted #Soylent
[07:21:15] <SirFinkus> the people next door are going for the next darwin award
[07:21:33] <SirFinkus> doing donuts full speed in a golf carf around a fire they keep throwing gasoline on
[07:22:26] <chromas> Feel free to snap a few shots
[07:22:27] <FoobarBazbot_> SirFinkus: s/rf/rt/
[07:22:27] <SedBot> <FoobarBazbot_> <SirFinkus> doing donuts full speed in a golf cart around a fire they keep throwing gasoline on
[07:22:39] <SirFinkus> yup
[07:22:54] <SirFinkus> don't have a camera
[07:23:35] <SirFinkus> and I doubt my webcam would work in the low light
[07:24:25] <FoobarBazbot_> sry, that probably looked like an irrepressible spelling nazi. my actual motivation was: playing with sedbot is fun.
[07:24:57] <SirFinkus> lol
[07:25:08] <SirFinkus> one of them is playing chicken with the golf cart now
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[08:23:54] <crutchy> http://goo.gl
[08:24:24] <crutchy> planespotting :-P
[08:26:50] <GungnirSniper> It's Australia, you're looking at it upside down.
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[08:30:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Most Americans Undaunted by Global Warming - http://sylnt.us - who-cares-about-future-generations
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[08:50:49] <MrBluze_Cmd> evening all
[08:51:15] * FoobarBazbot_ chirps like a cricket
[08:51:29] <MrBluze_Cmd> i thought i could hear crickets
[08:51:40] <MrBluze_Cmd> that at least confirms its the graveyard shift
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[08:55:36] <prospectacle> Good day
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[09:01:57] <arti> place is dead at night
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[09:03:16] <MrBluze_Cmd> hi all
[09:03:23] <arti> hey dude
[09:03:28] <prospectacle> hi MrBluze
[09:03:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> hi arti, prospectacle
[09:03:42] <MrBluze_Cmd> how u all doin
[09:03:54] <arti> pretty good, had a nice friday evening
[09:03:56] <prospectacle> Good. It's all happening around here
[09:04:01] <MrBluze_Cmd> tha's good
[09:04:05] <MrBluze_Cmd> all happening?
[09:04:16] <prospectacle> Not really, it's dead
[09:04:31] <arti> indeed, got a pretty good buzz going
[09:04:59] <prospectacle> I'm procrastinating though, so glad you guys are here.
[09:06:47] <arti> what are you procrastinating
[09:07:24] <prospectacle> Housework. Gotta inspection coming up
[09:07:42] <arti> is your character class a horder?
[09:07:52] <arti> hoarder*
[09:08:00] <prospectacle> Someone, I think SirFinkus, was talking about dwarf fortress, that sounds like it could kill a few hours or years if necessary.
[09:08:12] <prospectacle> arti: totally
[09:08:17] * MrBluze_Cmd is chaotic neutral
[09:09:12] <MrBluze_Cmd> hard work and perseverence pays off eventually, but procrastination pays off now :)
[09:09:33] <arti> trust me, you'll feel like doing it later
[09:09:37] <arti> and you'll thank yourself
[09:09:44] <prospectacle> MrBluze_Cmd that's the truth. I'm all comfortable and relaxed. All the more so becuase I'm imagining the contrast of getting up and doing stuff.
[09:10:36] <MrBluze_Cmd> i would be a hoarder if people didnt annoy me
[09:10:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> but some of them do, and it drives me to throw stuff out
[09:11:09] <prospectacle> Like to vent your rage?
[09:11:20] <prospectacle> or you mean, they annoy you about hoarding things?
[09:11:21] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah kind of
[09:11:25] <MrBluze_Cmd> no just annoy
[09:11:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> but i dont throw out good stuff .. i can stop myself from doing that
[09:11:40] <MrBluze_Cmd> ... never delete anything.. never!
[09:12:00] <chromas> Sometimes you gotta salt the snail
[09:12:03] <prospectacle> Lol, yeah deleting = regret
[09:12:04] <MrBluze_Cmd> bluze's law states that if you delete something, soon it'll be a waste because data got cheaper and u wish u'd kept it
[09:12:08] <ar> what-if-i: how do you know kobach was 5th?
[09:12:44] <prospectacle> I agree, also it's mean to the future archaeologists
[09:13:06] <prospectacle> maybe it's the one thing they need to complete their puzzle
[09:13:10] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes and the future you
[09:13:25] <MrBluze_Cmd> in 10 years time u will thank yourself for not deleting some bit of crud
[09:13:49] <prospectacle> I think "undo" should be implemented at the file-level, not the session-level. Seems dumb in this age of storage to have manually make backups.
[09:14:08] <MrBluze_Cmd> apple tried that with time machine
[09:14:16] <prospectacle> Oh yeah?
[09:14:36] <MrBluze_Cmd> well it does backups 30 min / 1 hour / 1 day / 1 week / 1 month .. 1 year / 5 years
[09:14:39] <MrBluze_Cmd> something like that
[09:15:01] <prospectacle> I like the wikipedia model. Compare any two versions, remember all versions.
[09:15:34] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah .. time machine keeps doing that until it runs out of space
[09:15:36] <prospectacle> I've started putting a list of historical versions in all the personal web-apps I write. It has come in handy more than once
[09:15:41] <MrBluze_Cmd> then it sacrifices intermediate backups
[09:15:57] <MrBluze_Cmd> ... osx has SOME good ideas in it at least
[09:16:03] <prospectacle> I guess space is still not nothing, you can't keep everything, but there must be a happy middle ground
[09:16:13] <arti> it falls short if you want to work outside of their workflow
[09:16:24] <arti> however it has many nice features
[09:16:26] <prospectacle> Like keep last 100 backups, then keep 1 of every 100 permanently.
[09:16:35] <arti> for everthing else: version control
[09:16:45] <prospectacle> Up to 10,000, then one of every 10,000, etc. OR something
[09:16:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep
[09:17:13] <MrBluze_Cmd> for linux i do even months / odd months separate backups
[09:17:23] <MrBluze_Cmd> and then keep the december's of each year
[09:17:51] <prospectacle> MrBluze_Cmd, sounds like a smart system. Is it easy to automate?
[09:19:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> i just get the relevant external hard drive out and do the backup
[09:20:22] <MrBluze_Cmd> ie: copy the VM to the hdd
[09:21:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> it's not as clever as time machine, but honestly, a vm backup is as robust as u are gonna get
[09:21:06] <prospectacle> makes sense.
[09:21:33] <prospectacle> Yeah, no messing about when you restore. Just boot.
[09:21:42] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep
[09:21:54] <MrBluze_Cmd> the vm is encrypted, so it's safe
[09:22:04] <MrBluze_Cmd> and u can fork the vm's at any time
[09:22:15] <prospectacle> I think i'll try to make this sustainable auto-backup thing catch on. I suppose I'd have to write some popular program first so others see it.
[09:22:43] <prospectacle> Let's see, if a program auto-saved the last 100, then one out of 100 up to 10,000, that's 200 backups for 10,000 changes. Then, one of every 10,000, up to a million, and it's only 300 backups for a million changes. That wouldn't take up much space would it?
[09:23:05] <prospectacle> less if you only store the diff.
[09:23:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> as long as it restores easily
[09:24:07] <MrBluze_Cmd> brb
[09:24:14] <prospectacle> Yeah, probably diff is too complicated. Store the whole thing if it's only 300 copies out of a million. (400 out of a hundred million).
[09:25:32] <MrBluze_Cmd> well a lot of diff and other similar backup methods die when u try to restore
[09:25:37] <MrBluze_Cmd> i fear that's the thing about time machine also
[09:25:53] <MrBluze_Cmd> i have osx on my laptop, but i only use it to run vm's
[09:26:34] <MrBluze_Cmd> the vm is, say, 250gb max
[09:26:43] <prospectacle> True, and while keeping hundreds of full backups might seem like a lot, most things people change themselves are text: documents, emails, spreadsheets. That's not a lot of space.
[09:26:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> 2 fit on an external drive.. therefore each drive stores two months worth
[09:27:03] <MrBluze_Cmd> oh yeah, and u know, data gets cheaper and cheaper
[09:27:09] <prospectacle> The big things, videos, etc, are usually not something you change, so just one or two backusp is fine.
[09:27:25] <MrBluze_Cmd> i found as the years roll by, i have to buy another external drive maybe each year
[09:27:44] <MrBluze_Cmd> to store the previous years' stuff .. and cumulatively i have several copies of old vm's
[09:28:00] <prospectacle> Yeah that's not much. do you have redundant, I mean in case of hd failure?
[09:28:33] <MrBluze_Cmd> well the annual backups become multiply redundant .. the idea being that no backup is older than 1 year since last it was written
[09:28:49] <MrBluze_Cmd> it's probably wasteful
[09:29:01] <MrBluze_Cmd> i have OOLD hard drives from 15 years ago that have lost no data
[09:29:03] <prospectacle> Well peace of mind is priceless
[09:29:07] <arti> the most wasteful thing you do: flush the toilet
[09:29:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> old 120mb drives etc - still not a byte lost
[09:29:33] <prospectacle> If the stress saved from the backups is more than the stress incurred by spending money on hard drives, you win.
[09:29:40] <arti> 120mb = zipdrive?
[09:30:05] <MrBluze_Cmd> 5 1/2 inch drive for a 486 or some such
[09:30:21] <MrBluze_Cmd> i did used to have zip drives back in the day .. they were awesome
[09:30:24] <prospectacle> Ah zip drive. Those were the days.
[09:30:40] <arti> yeah, a mighty 100+mb of pure portability
[09:30:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> rewritable and all .. and magnetic :(
[09:31:05] <FoobarBazbot_> arti: zips were 100MB, you're thinking the LS-120?
[09:31:07] <prospectacle> and they looked like a floppy so the comparison was clear. 1.44mb or 100, which is better?
[09:31:26] <MrBluze_Cmd> but hard drives have shown to be the most reliable storage medium afaik
[09:31:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> magnetic ones
[09:31:49] <arti> for an experiment, put one in a dryer
[09:31:52] <MrBluze_Cmd> they really only die if u have them running constantly, or if u drop them
[09:32:01] <prospectacle> Any idea how long they last on average? I mean if there was a nuclear winter, how long would civilisation have to rebuild before it lost hte ability to read old hard drives?
[09:32:08] <MrBluze_Cmd> arti: probably a thumbdrive will outlast that
[09:32:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> prospectacle: i dunoo .. thats why i keep redundant copies in recent media
[09:32:40] <prospectacle> Good plan.
[09:32:43] <prospectacle> Gotta go
[09:32:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> see ya
[09:32:52] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~3a6b4a21@x81-985-52-61.mit138.act.optusnet.com.au] has parted #Soylent
[09:33:32] * MrBluze_Cmd confesses he bought a 10tb backup box this year
[09:33:43] <arti> nice
[09:33:44] <MrBluze_Cmd> that was a bit excessive but work paid for it
[09:33:51] * arti wonders how many mkv files there are on there...
[09:33:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> lmao i dont collect movies
[09:34:13] <MrBluze_Cmd> but i make a new vm for each software project
[09:34:23] <arti> i see you're a developer
[09:34:32] <MrBluze_Cmd> only as a hobby
[09:34:39] <arti> "fuck it" *copies the whole thing over iwth snapshots* "run this biatch"
[09:34:43] <MrBluze_Cmd> also do multimedia stuff like videos and whatever
[09:34:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol arti
[09:35:07] <MrBluze_Cmd> but its nice to just start with a new fresh vm with everything set up and ready to go
[09:35:20] <arti> i like it specifically for snapshots
[09:35:26] <MrBluze_Cmd> and just one license ;)
[09:35:33] <MrBluze_Cmd> cause m$ dont care as long as u run one at a time
[09:35:37] <arti> license: to kill
[09:35:50] <arti> kudos on following the rules
[09:36:10] <arti> it's like the honor system, i think that nets you an extra virgin in the after life iirc
[09:36:34] <arti> either that or a temporary +10% to upload speed
[09:36:44] * arti offers MrBluze_Cmd some wine
[09:36:55] <MrBluze_Cmd> yum lol
[09:37:10] <MrBluze_Cmd> bacon++
[09:37:10] <Bender> karma - bacon: 177
[09:37:12] <arti> pretty much
[09:37:14] <MrBluze_Cmd> ok i gtg for a bit
[09:37:20] <arti> alright, may the force be with you
[09:37:23] <MrBluze_Cmd> im half here if there is a prob
[09:37:26] <MrBluze_Cmd> cheers mate u too
[09:37:30] <arti> haha, take care
[10:20:44] -!- d33tah has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[10:25:38] FoobarBazbot is now known as FoobarBazbot|afk
[10:35:15] -!- d33tah [d33tah!~d33tah@lczcb.math.uni.lodz.pl] has joined #Soylent
[10:37:48] <crutchy> !current-uid
[10:37:48] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 3861, owned by WeatherChannel
[10:38:07] <crutchy> !karma-whoup bacon
[10:38:07] <Bender> uppers of bacon are: kobach: 52, stderr: 44, xlefay: 13, mattie_p: 13, crutchy: 9, xyzzyyzzyx: 8, Alberto: 7, pbnjoe: 5, MrBluze: 3, Marneus68: 3, juggs: 3, TheMightyBuzzard: 2, Konomi: 2, FoobarBazbot: 2, stdhell: 2, MrBluze_Cmd: 1, martyb: 1, paulej72_afk: 1, FatPhil: 1, hax0rz: 1, keick: 1, useless: 1, n1: 1, MrBluze|zzz: 1, pbnjoe|afk: 1
[10:38:22] <crutchy> !karma-whodown poutine
[10:38:22] <Bender> downers of poutine are: kobach: -109, crutchy: -27, xlefay: -22, FoobarBazbot_: -19, FatPhil: -14, stderr: -13, andrew: -12, Khyber: -11, mattie_p: -11, mrcoolbp: -10, FoobarBazbot: -10, swiss: -8, pbnjoe: -7, drcoolbp: -7, paulej72: -6, stdhell: -4, dx3bydt3: -4, amblivious: -3, swisskid: -3, xyzzyyxxyx: -3, CHALLNGEACCPTD: -2, FunPika: -2, melikamp: -2, MrBluze: -2, - 1 more
[10:38:40] <crutchy> !stats-update
[10:38:47] <crutchy> !update-stats
[10:38:52] <crutchy> ?
[10:38:54] <crutchy> !stats
[10:38:55] <Bender> creating stats for channel #Soylent (Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970)
[10:38:55] <chromas> poutine-- I guess I should contribute
[10:38:55] <Bender> karma - poutine: -320
[10:39:04] <Bender> stat results for #Soylent: xlefay: 5983, kobach: 5476, crutchy: 5379, unknown: 4376, MrBluze: 3202, arti: 2786, hax0rz: 2675, Khyber: 2209, Landon: 2066, mattie_p: 1910, Konomi: 1837, Guardian452: 1480, janrinok: 1463, NCommander: 1355, stderr: 1260, Bender: 1259, n1: 1194, FatPhil: 1119, swisskid: 966, martyb: 960, mrcoolbp: 952, auto_def: 905, useless: 797, juggs: 775, Ethanol-fueled: 770, weilawei: 769, pbnjoe: 755, swiss: 728, SpallsHurgenson: 713
[10:39:33] <crutchy> 5000+ wtf!?
[10:39:39] <crutchy> lies
[10:40:57] <crutchy> !stats update
[10:40:57] <Bender> creating stats for channel #Soylent (Sat Mar 15 10:40:57 2014)
[10:41:02] <Bender> no result found for update
[10:41:15] <crutchy> hmm
[10:41:20] <crutchy> !stats crutchy
[10:41:20] <Bender> creating stats for channel #Soylent (Sat Mar 15 10:41:20 2014)
[10:41:25] <Bender> stat results for crutchy: the: 956, a: 871, to: 745, i: 661, of: 516, that: 442, is: 408, it: 397, in: 394, and: 333, for: 313, you: 301, on: 262, be: 256, like: 245, with: 227, just: 225, but: 219, :-P: 218, my: 210, have: 190, not: 165, was: 162, are: 162, can: 154, get: 153, as: 146, think: 132, about: 129, would: 129, don't: 128, do: 123, if: 121, up: 119, an: 117, - 215 more
[10:41:29] <crutchy> lol
[10:41:54] <crutchy> !stats poutine
[10:41:54] <Bender> creating stats for channel #Soylent (Sat Mar 15 10:41:54 2014)
[10:41:58] <Bender> no result found for poutine
[10:42:03] <crutchy> ha
[10:42:11] <crutchy> !stats bender
[10:42:12] <Bender> creating stats for channel #Soylent (Sat Mar 15 10:42:12 2014)
[10:42:16] <Bender> no result found for bender
[10:42:23] <crutchy> !stats Bender
[10:42:23] <Bender> creating stats for channel #Soylent (Sat Mar 15 10:42:23 2014)
[10:42:27] <Bender> stat results for Bender: -: 877, 1: 194, poutine:: 134, is: 106, for: 98, 2: 92, by: 82, UID: 80, maximum: 80, current: 80, owned: 80, item: 74, 3: 60, xlefay:: 53, of: 50, added: 48, quote: 48, 4: 47, -1: 47, bacon:: 47, hax0rz:: 45, find: 44, on: 43, the: 42, more: 40, 6: 39, to: 38, with: 37, 5: 37, crutchy:: 37, mattie_p:: 36, stderr:: 28, arti:: 28, ||: 27, 7: 27, found: 25, swisskid:: 25, in: 24, (\/): 24, 1): 24, woop: 24, 8: 24, #Soylent: 24,
[10:43:35] <crutchy> ooh thunder
[10:44:50] <crutchy> we actually have proper rain here since... err... december maybe
[10:47:09] -!- drgibbon [drgibbon!~gibblets@100.percent.pure.coconut.water] has joined #Soylent
[10:49:00] -!- IT_freak [IT_freak!~smuxi@s-69-253-783-290.hsd0.wa.comcast.net] has joined #Soylent
[10:49:18] IT_freak is now known as IT_phreak
[10:50:13] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@216.161.ghn.ql] has joined #Soylent
[10:54:08] <MrBluze_Cmd> raining here too
[10:54:19] <MrBluze_Cmd> garden needing it badly
[10:56:11] <MrBluze_Cmd> bacon++
[10:56:11] <Bender> karma - bacon: 178
[10:57:03] <MrBluze_Cmd> !stats-uid
[10:57:13] <MrBluze_Cmd> !current-uid
[10:57:13] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 3861, owned by WeatherChannel
[10:59:09] <crutchy> my grass is mostly dead anyway
[10:59:39] <MrBluze_Cmd> i been watering but the manferns are looking pretty sorry
[11:00:03] <crutchy> when i mowed it last i was mostly mowing the dried up stalks of ex-dandelions
[11:00:21] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah same
[11:00:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> damn things
[11:00:32] <MrBluze_Cmd> brb again
[11:00:37] <MrBluze_Cmd> kids *rolls eyes*
[11:03:45] <Ingar> I could use some kids to mow my lawn
[11:04:51] <Ingar> if it were up to me I'd just plow it under
[11:04:52] <crutchy> my eldest is 7... he has waaaaaaaay more important things to do... like watching star wars: clone wars apparently
[11:05:07] <crutchy> plow it under?
[11:05:49] <Ingar> crutchy: this house (my landlord's) has grass all around
[11:06:06] <Ingar> I actually only use a tiny piece of the lawn
[11:06:18] <Ingar> anything else is just more work for me D:
[11:06:31] -!- Space_Man_ [Space_Man_!~Space_Man@91-886-365-69.static.enta.net] has joined #Soylent
[11:06:34] <crutchy> ahh you mean down to the dirt
[11:06:47] <Ingar> yes
[11:07:00] <crutchy> lol i guess that's what plow means :-P
[11:07:23] <Ingar> english, it's silly sometimes :p
[11:07:35] <crutchy> 9.15pm here... i'm in bleh mode
[11:07:46] <Ingar> hehe
[11:07:51] <Ingar> 11.07am
[11:08:06] * Ingar has the coffee
[11:08:53] <Ingar> should play some elder scrolls beta :)
[11:09:20] <crutchy> i should do... something
[11:10:45] <Ingar> I planned a very lazy weekend :)
[11:11:52] -!- Space_Man__ [Space_Man__!~Space_Man@91-886-365-69.static.enta.net] has joined #Soylent
[11:11:55] <Ingar> I survived the first week of taking the bicycle to work, and my body feels it
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[11:16:32] <MrBluze_Cmd> uc an always procrastinate
[11:16:41] <MrBluze_Cmd> .. or find a good article for sn
[11:16:47] <MrBluze_Cmd> or do some trolling ther
[11:17:07] <crutchy> might do some php
[11:17:19] <crutchy> if i get some coffee going
[11:17:45] <crutchy> lately been working on a pressure vessel complaince app
[11:18:03] <crutchy> s/complaince/compliance/
[11:18:03] <SedBot> <crutchy> lately been working on a pressure vessel compliance app
[11:25:17] <MrBluze_Cmd> what kinda pressure vessel
[11:33:39] <crutchy> AS 1210-2010
[11:34:06] <crutchy> http://infostore.saiglobal.com
[11:34:51] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep .. exactly where i was looking
[11:35:51] <crutchy> excel spreadsheets are an engineer's best friend, but they have limitations, and this particular code make tough work of a spreadsheet
[11:36:19] * MrBluze_Cmd nods
[11:38:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> hmm.. ok so it looks like just pressure piping
[11:38:34] <crutchy> nah pressure piping is a different code
[11:38:38] <MrBluze_Cmd> by compliance u mean compliance to a standard, or measuring the vessel's compliance
[11:38:54] <MrBluze_Cmd> as in 1/elastance
[11:39:54] <crutchy> AS 4041-2006 for piping
[11:40:00] <crutchy> don't deal with that one much
[11:40:16] <MrBluze_Cmd> okay
[11:40:34] <crutchy> except occasionally on drawings (which i don't do that much of)
[11:40:40] <MrBluze_Cmd> by the way, if i want to pump water 50m up hill
[11:40:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> maybe not a huge rate, maybe a couple of litres a minute
[11:41:57] <MrBluze_Cmd> .. how do i work out what power output i need for a pump
[11:42:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Zuckerberg Phoned Obama to Complain About Spying - http://sylnt.us - you-can't-opt-out-of-the-nsa
[11:43:07] * MrBluze_Cmd was inspecting a property with two dams, the lower one is spring fed, the upper one tends to dry out but is larger
[11:43:27] <crutchy> pressure (kPa) = 9.81 * vertical height (m)
[11:43:45] <MrBluze_Cmd> gravity ofc
[11:43:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> so 500kpa roughly
[11:44:02] <crutchy> good ol' bernoulli
[11:44:16] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah
[11:45:03] <crutchy> need to add a smidgin more for flow rate
[11:45:23] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep
[11:45:51] <MrBluze_Cmd> just gonna look into this wrt solar powered pump
[11:46:00] <crutchy> ahh
[11:46:03] <crutchy> cool :-)
[11:46:17] <crutchy> i would like to get solar electricity for my house
[11:46:38] <MrBluze_Cmd> we havent bought it but are looking
[11:46:47] <MrBluze_Cmd> spring fed dam is very attractive
[11:46:58] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah i wanted to go solar for lighting / fridge / electronics
[11:47:05] <MrBluze_Cmd> and have a separate circuit for heating/cooking
[11:47:23] <crutchy> but they need replacing after 10-15 years and insurance apparently only covers 10% of solar installations (or something like that)
[11:47:36] <crutchy> my parents have a spring fed dam
[11:47:58] <crutchy> very handy but hard to maintain and water isn't as clean as off a roof
[11:48:08] <crutchy> (hard to keep sediment out)
[11:48:18] <crutchy> mainly gets used for cattle troughs
[11:48:31] <MrBluze_Cmd> replacement not really after 10-15 years .. its more like they need maintenance
[11:48:45] <MrBluze_Cmd> the panels themselves survive its just contacts and wiring
[11:48:58] <crutchy> hmm ok that doesn't sound as bad
[11:49:20] <MrBluze_Cmd> they are just silicon behind glass
[11:49:54] <MrBluze_Cmd> looks like pumping water like that is too much work for electric pumps
[11:50:10] <crutchy> 50m vertical head is pretty significant
[11:50:28] <crutchy> you weren't talking about 50m up a slope were you?
[11:50:43] <crutchy> line 20 degrees or something
[11:50:53] <crutchy> that would make a much smaller head
[11:51:24] <crutchy> *like 20 degrees
[11:51:27] <crutchy> finger trouble
[11:51:55] <MrBluze_Cmd> its probably more like 30m height
[11:51:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> could be as much as 50m
[11:52:10] <crutchy> that's a lot
[11:52:12] <MrBluze_Cmd> i had two ideas about this
[11:52:17] <crutchy> you'll need a big pump
[11:52:20] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes
[11:52:27] <MrBluze_Cmd> it's a lot of power
[11:53:57] <MrBluze_Cmd> a civil engineer i know did this somehow, using solar to pump water up a hill from one dam to another, then using the head of water downwards to drive a small turbine and generate power
[11:54:36] <crutchy> although i think typical mains pressure is somewhere in the order of 400 kpa
[11:55:05] <MrBluze_Cmd> bore hole pump 700kpa .. $55 aud
[11:55:07] <crutchy> we had a guy come to us with an idea like that... not gunna happen
[11:55:08] <crutchy> sorry
[11:55:15] <crutchy> believe me i wish it could
[11:55:19] <crutchy> and i've been looking
[11:55:32] <MrBluze_Cmd> 280 watts
[11:55:56] <MrBluze_Cmd> hmm.. 280 watts is doable with solar
[11:56:13] <MrBluze_Cmd> the point was he got better ROI with a mini hydro than he got from batteries
[11:56:15] <crutchy> google things like capilliary action
[11:56:29] <crutchy> mkay
[11:56:41] <MrBluze_Cmd> batteries is 10% return
[11:57:29] <crutchy> just read your thing about the civil guy again... yeah using solar power could work sorry
[11:58:10] <MrBluze_Cmd> it can work, i just dont know how easy
[11:58:23] <crutchy> solar is always going to be efficient i guess
[11:58:28] <MrBluze_Cmd> microhydropower
[11:58:48] <crutchy> well not efficient compared to suns energy going in
[11:59:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes of course .. but this is for things like peak draw events at night etc
[11:59:54] <crutchy> hmm not sure what the whole hyrdo thing is about... maybe it's just late... if you're trying to pump water uphill, dunno where you're getting downhill flow from
[11:59:55] <MrBluze_Cmd> like starting a dishwasher
[12:00:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> oh..
[12:00:19] <MrBluze_Cmd> the lower dam is spring fed, right.. so it's always getting filled up with water
[12:00:32] <crutchy> like pumped storage or something maybe?
[12:00:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> the upper dam is filled with water during rain, but dries out otherwise
[12:00:36] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes
[12:00:48] <crutchy> oh yeah pumped storage is very efficient
[12:00:51] <MrBluze_Cmd> in full sun, the pump switches on and gets water up the hill, storing it as kinetic energy
[12:00:58] <MrBluze_Cmd> right.. beats batteries
[12:01:02] <crutchy> generally uses off peak electricity for pumping uphill
[12:01:18] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah or surplus solar
[12:01:28] <crutchy> yeah :-)
[12:01:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> plus keeps the upper dam topped up for irrigation etc
[12:01:52] <MrBluze_Cmd> and then draw water down the hill for the turbine .. i just saw one - 2kw
[12:02:26] <MrBluze_Cmd> .. another up to 16kw
[12:02:47] <crutchy> yeah you can get a shitload of power from a small hydro turbine, but remember you need the same amount of power to pump it back uphill
[12:02:57] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep
[12:03:11] <MrBluze_Cmd> but it's still a better ROI than a bank of batteries
[12:03:19] <MrBluze_Cmd> cheaper from the outset
[12:03:41] <crutchy> i dunno
[12:03:52] <crutchy> there's a big capital cost in pumped storage
[12:03:55] <MrBluze_Cmd> probably doesn't wear out as quick as batteries .. they are $150 a piece.. u need at least 10
[12:04:04] <MrBluze_Cmd> deep cycle
[12:04:57] <crutchy> and maintenance costs are probably higher too
[12:05:09] <crutchy> batteries seem like they would be cheaper, but not sure
[12:05:49] <MrBluze_Cmd> problem with them is gas, checking water levels, .. one failed battery ruins the lot
[12:06:26] <MrBluze_Cmd> thats why its mostly feed the grid etc
[12:06:28] <crutchy> dunno. i'm not a battery guru. i assume they would make them pretty well isolated from each other
[12:06:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> but u dont get much back for it
[12:07:00] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah there are these little circuit things that isolate them .. i have one for the second battery in the car
[12:07:08] <crutchy> and you gotta buy from grid for anything over battery/solar output
[12:07:51] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep .. but the mini hydro might mean i can get, say, 30 mins of high power output with little trouble
[12:08:22] <crutchy> you still gotta store a lot of power to pump the water back up the hill though
[12:08:24] <MrBluze_Cmd> have to see how much volume of water that would be
[12:08:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes
[12:08:43] <MrBluze_Cmd> .. actually because it's on a hilltop, i can also get a wind turbine
[12:08:58] <MrBluze_Cmd> generating the power is fine
[12:09:11] <MrBluze_Cmd> but the problem is managing peak usage - that is where it gets expensive normally
[12:09:16] <crutchy> pumped storage is generally designed for peak electricity generation because they don't really "generate" electricity in the normal sense
[12:09:38] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah, that's it
[12:09:46] <crutchy> they merely store off peak energy for use during peak
[12:09:51] <MrBluze_Cmd> for lighting and continuous draw stuff like a fridge, just use batteries
[12:10:13] <MrBluze_Cmd> and for peak stuff like washing machine .. it trips the hydro
[12:10:50] <MrBluze_Cmd> ... the dams are quite big .. looks like more than 100,000L for the top dam
[12:11:35] <crutchy> maybe
[12:11:48] <crutchy> is the top dam fed by a spring?
[12:12:10] <MrBluze_Cmd> the bottom one
[12:12:12] <crutchy> (sorry can't remember if you already mentioned)
[12:12:16] <crutchy> mkay
[12:12:23] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah the top one is nearly at the hilltop
[12:12:34] <MrBluze_Cmd> we get a lot of rainfall so it fills up in winter to spring
[12:12:41] <MrBluze_Cmd> but gets to 1/3 full end of summer
[12:12:51] <crutchy> mkay
[12:13:26] <crutchy> i guess if you got it you might as well take advantage of it :-)
[12:13:41] <crutchy> roll of poly pipe and a pump
[12:13:44] <MrBluze_Cmd> well we havent bought the thing yet lol
[12:13:47] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes
[12:14:10] <MrBluze_Cmd> i think it's quite doable .. damn good idea but not many have the opportunity
[12:14:56] <MrBluze_Cmd> i knew another guy who did this and went totally off grid, but he had to live a pretty spartan life .. under-engineered everything
[12:15:34] <crutchy> my parents have their spring-fed dam about maybe 10m vertical above their house, but the pring doesn't have enough flow to make hydro viable
[12:16:24] <MrBluze_Cmd> well the water is conserved in the hydro
[12:16:27] <crutchy> it's easy to get power while emptying a damn... it's another to make sure it's renewable
[12:16:28] <MrBluze_Cmd> unless u overflow the lower dam
[12:16:58] <MrBluze_Cmd> point of the lower dam being spring fed is u can use it to top up the dam that isn't spring fed
[12:17:49] <crutchy> need power to do that though, which reduces to usable power output of the system
[12:18:21] <crutchy> my parents could always top up their dam from the creek below too
[12:18:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes
[12:19:01] <MrBluze_Cmd> well the top up is a continuous low power situation
[12:19:11] <MrBluze_Cmd> say your solar array generates 1kw
[12:19:26] <MrBluze_Cmd> and u are usign 200w.. then spend 800w pumping wter
[12:19:41] <crutchy> power used to pump water uphill = power generated by water flowing downhill
[12:19:43] <MrBluze_Cmd> 200w = no one home, fridge on, laptop on, router on, etc
[12:20:04] <crutchy> solar is different though :-)
[12:20:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> oh of course this is a stupid way of wasting grid power
[12:21:03] -!- neagix [neagix!~neagix@31.220.yp.otq] has joined #Soylent
[12:21:11] <crutchy> nah i can see the use of the top dam as a sort of battery
[12:21:26] <crutchy> pump water while it's sunny using the solar power
[12:21:31] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep, or windy
[12:21:35] <neagix> this is such a bad day..I discovered my ex gf had thrown away all the boxes of my SNES cartridges
[12:21:39] <crutchy> then use the hyrdo power at night when you need your lights
[12:21:46] <MrBluze_Cmd> neagix: .. lucky u can download em
[12:21:52] <neagix> because they took too much room
[12:21:58] <MrBluze_Cmd> crutchy: .. yes, for lights or dish washer or whatever
[12:22:13] <neagix> MrBluze_Cmd: I had the original boxes, now I have naked cartridges :(
[12:22:15] <MrBluze_Cmd> neagix: thats the problem with having a woman ... they do stupid stuff without asking
[12:22:16] <crutchy> seems like a good thing
[12:22:26] <MrBluze_Cmd> my woman does that
[12:22:45] <MrBluze_Cmd> drives me insane
[12:22:48] <neagix> I know they're worth money, but for me it was also pride and memories
[12:23:02] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah she turfed a whole bunch of my lp's once
[12:23:30] <crutchy> my wife is the hoarder... i don't have problem with her chucking stuff out :-P
[12:24:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol.. i am getting everything scanned, backuped up, digitized
[12:24:34] <MrBluze_Cmd> before it disappears
[12:24:46] <neagix> I throw away a lot of stuff as well. but god, if I keep that garbage around there *might* be a reason, think of it :'(
[12:26:11] <crutchy> maybe think of it like a new beginning... like when you haven't backed up for ages and your hard drive decides to throw in the towel
[12:26:21] <crutchy> well maybe the hdd thing wouldn't happen to you
[12:26:29] <crutchy> happened to me a few times though :-P
[12:26:36] * neagix contemplates the possibility to sue the PGA (planetary girlfriends association)
[12:26:39] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah ive had tat
[12:26:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol
[12:27:05] <neagix> I lost data only once, and it was somebody deleting it in retaliation (long story..) so now I have quite regular backups
[12:27:15] <crutchy> i would go to the PGA
[12:27:16] <neagix> but of course I don't test them, so.. :P
[12:27:20] <crutchy> you will never hear the end of it
[12:27:35] <crutchy> i mean i *wouldn't* go to the PGA
[12:27:54] <crutchy> they will initiate nag mode on your ass
[12:28:05] <MrBluze_Cmd> my data loss was a dropped hdd
[12:28:42] <crutchy> ooh dropped hd is bad
[12:29:03] <MrBluze_Cmd> yup
[12:29:14] <MrBluze_Cmd> 500gb of music lol
[12:29:24] <crutchy> lol not that bad then
[12:29:29] <MrBluze_Cmd> nah
[12:29:31] <crutchy> i mean not *that* bad
[12:29:36] <crutchy> :-P
[12:29:40] <MrBluze_Cmd> wasnt rare stuff
[12:29:51] <MrBluze_Cmd> but a big lesson
[12:30:05] <MrBluze_Cmd> redundancy++
[12:30:05] <Bender> karma - redundancy: 1
[12:30:18] <crutchy> there's probably 2% of files on my many storage devices that i would be afraid to lose
[12:30:22] <crutchy> the rest is all shit
[12:30:31] <crutchy> i don't even know or remember what it is
[12:30:52] <MrBluze_Cmd> the rest can be your truecrypt, the 2% your hidden volume
[12:32:53] <crutchy> i keep my php on a readynas nv+ (4 disk raid 1)
[12:33:13] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah i got a raid now
[12:33:34] <MrBluze_Cmd> 10tb -> 4 + 2tb
[12:33:52] <crutchy> handy little thing. the box only cost about $400, just had to buy the hdds extra
[12:34:03] <crutchy> i only got 1tb
[12:34:04] <MrBluze_Cmd> similar for me
[12:34:05] <crutchy> x4
[12:34:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> mine is this year and work subsidised
[12:34:53] <crutchy> i got a usb on a midnight backup job
[12:35:03] <crutchy> wow that's handy
[12:35:24] <crutchy> hmm maybe i should look into that (since pretty much all my php is work-related)
[12:35:25] <MrBluze_Cmd> for the vms
[12:35:33] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah
[12:35:45] <MrBluze_Cmd> most of my stuff is work related
[12:36:26] <crutchy> i really don't take advantage of my situation at work as much as i could/should
[12:36:45] <MrBluze_Cmd> we get a budget we have to use
[12:37:09] <crutchy> i've been offered a bigger server at work but i didn't take it cos it didn't really technically need it
[12:37:14] <MrBluze_Cmd> kind of forced to buy stuff
[12:37:31] <crutchy> yeah a lot of companies do that i think
[12:37:42] <crutchy> we don't really have an IT department
[12:37:43] <MrBluze_Cmd> well u dont take what u dont need
[12:37:58] <crutchy> the office is full of nerds
[12:38:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> but having more sometimes opens opportunities u didnt see b4
[12:38:15] <crutchy> yeah i guess
[12:38:43] <MrBluze_Cmd> i got us filemaker server this year
[12:38:57] <crutchy> filemaker db?
[12:39:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> and it opened their eyes how much they had been wasting money on off the shelf db's that do the same thing
[12:39:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah
[12:39:48] <crutchy> fuck me drunk i haven't used filemaker since i was in high school
[12:39:50] <crutchy> :-)
[12:40:03] <MrBluze_Cmd> just for audit etc, its just totally easy to use
[12:40:14] <crutchy> yeah it was a good intro
[12:40:20] <MrBluze_Cmd> yup
[12:40:31] <crutchy> lol i think it was something like filemaker pro 2 or something
[12:40:39] <MrBluze_Cmd> and most staff we have are not coders by any stretch
[12:40:46] <crutchy> the whole thing fitted on like 4 floppies
[12:40:47] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah its v 13
[12:40:48] <crutchy> :-P
[12:41:14] <MrBluze_Cmd> th server has web interface, and apps for phone/tablet
[12:41:17] <crutchy> wow now i feel old
[12:41:23] <crutchy> mkay
[12:41:48] <MrBluze_Cmd> beats having to write my own for mundane jobs
[12:41:53] <crutchy> back when i used it looked like a simplied version of microsoft access
[12:42:00] <MrBluze_Cmd> yes
[12:42:18] <MrBluze_Cmd> still is but it can do just as much..
[12:42:21] <crutchy> but that was in maybe 1996 or something
[12:42:45] <crutchy> mkay
[12:42:45] <MrBluze_Cmd> i remember it on the b+w mac
[12:43:12] <crutchy> i used to like microsoft access before i had to use it
[12:43:21] <crutchy> developing access apps is fun
[12:43:25] <MrBluze_Cmd> access is crap
[12:43:27] <crutchy> using them is a fucking pain
[12:43:38] <MrBluze_Cmd> its aweful
[12:43:47] <crutchy> actually yeah developing can be a pain too once you reach a certain point
[12:43:52] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep
[12:43:55] <crutchy> like max jet connections
[12:44:01] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol yes
[12:44:23] <MrBluze_Cmd> best is foss but it hate that
[12:44:30] <crutchy> then i stumbled on mysql+php for dummies :-P
[12:44:31] <MrBluze_Cmd> it scares them
[12:44:43] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah i wanted lamp
[12:44:57] <MrBluze_Cmd> but i got this instead
[12:45:18] <crutchy> nobody i have worked for (smallish companies) would ever commission a lamp stack + app development
[12:45:42] <crutchy> but my work uses it now because i basically offered it to them for free
[12:45:54] <crutchy> pretty hard to turn down
[12:46:28] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah
[12:46:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> well i said to them the cost is $0
[12:46:55] <MrBluze_Cmd> but they got frightened because the software was too powerful
[12:47:09] <MrBluze_Cmd> ie: our IT people are clueless idiots
[12:47:11] <crutchy> yeah but most beancounters can't register $0 unless you show them
[12:47:42] <crutchy> you have to literally show them the server set up and working with the application already developed and available
[12:47:56] <MrBluze_Cmd> thats the problem
[12:48:01] <crutchy> you have to give them something tangible
[12:48:08] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep
[12:48:16] <crutchy> $0 is an intangible amount
[12:48:35] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah in the public service this is even more difficult than anywhere else
[12:48:38] <crutchy> prolly cos most business types know there's no such thing as a free lunch
[12:48:49] <crutchy> and most of the time they are right
[12:48:49] -!- Robotron [Robotron!~cb73905e@203.115.quw.lt] has joined #Soylent
[12:48:56] <MrBluze_Cmd> they are right with foss also
[12:48:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> maintenance is a problem
[12:49:00] <crutchy> yeah
[12:49:03] <Robotron> hey all
[12:49:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> hi Robotron
[12:49:20] <crutchy> i bore the outlay development costs myself in my case
[12:49:32] <crutchy> and most of the maintenance costs too
[12:49:59] <crutchy> but i have received a bonus for the work and some generous pay rises
[12:50:30] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah they have been giving me some perks for the software dev that i do
[12:50:55] <crutchy> i think mostly cos they know that if i leave there's nobody left who has a clue how it all works :-P
[12:51:15] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol
[12:51:22] <MrBluze_Cmd> u like the guy in dilbert with the coffee
[12:51:44] <MrBluze_Cmd> they gave me filemaker because i then have a hope of teaching other ppl how to maintain it
[12:51:55] <MrBluze_Cmd> php / mysql / linux is too nerdy for my field
[12:52:00] <crutchy> they tried to have one of the other engineers follow the development i was doing, but didn't last long
[12:53:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> its a problem - in a way u have to try to keep yourself just a bit less than indespensible
[12:53:14] <crutchy> most engineers aren't lamp nerds either, but they generally have a bit of programming knowledge. i just presented the working application and it pretty much sold itself.
[12:54:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah here it's a different bunch ... they are moslty braindead
[12:54:23] <crutchy> in my case the software is still just an engineering tool, so if it were lost we could still do our jubs, just much less efficiently
[12:54:27] <crutchy> lol
[12:55:16] <MrBluze_Cmd> in our case also.. we are just trying to rise above paper
[12:55:40] <crutchy> yeah paper sucks.... no actually paper is good *lives near a paper mill* :-P
[12:55:40] <MrBluze_Cmd> but there is a generous smattering of failed projects everywhere i look
[12:56:01] <crutchy> i'm doing a lot of refactoring of my code
[12:56:03] <MrBluze_Cmd> paper doesnt break if u drop it, it doesnt run out of power, it doesn't crash, it doesnt get viruses
[12:56:17] <MrBluze_Cmd> it outlasts a hard drive
[12:56:56] <crutchy> it does burn and deteriorate though, and it takes up physical space (we have compactuses full of the shit)
[12:57:09] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah true
[12:57:19] <MrBluze_Cmd> but it's EMF proof
[12:57:35] <crutchy> and also more idiot proof :-P
[12:57:41] <MrBluze_Cmd> yep
[12:57:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> and u cant upload all the paper to the US overnight without noticing
[12:58:27] <crutchy> lol lucky i don't have to worry about that
[12:59:06] <crutchy> oh hi Robotron
[12:59:06] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol .. most of the stuff is IP theft - not political crap
[12:59:23] <MrBluze_Cmd> so u probably do have to worry
[12:59:49] <crutchy> as long as we get paid for our work, i don't give a shit what happens to it :-P
[13:00:26] <crutchy> most of my concerns are to do with safety and not being sued
[13:00:32] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol yes
[13:00:39] <MrBluze_Cmd> same here
[13:00:42] <MrBluze_Cmd> but we get sued if our data leaks
[13:00:43] <crutchy> IP is important, but to a lesser extent
[13:01:30] <crutchy> most of our clients just want something built so they can do their jobs also safely and without being sued
[13:01:45] <crutchy> they don't really care much about IP either, and they pay for it
[13:01:45] <crutchy> :-P
[13:01:58] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol its a better world that u have
[13:02:44] <MrBluze_Cmd> back in 10 min
[13:02:50] <crutchy> np
[13:08:40] <crutchy> refactoring isn't as exciting as new feature development :-(
[13:10:29] <Robotron> actually the decay of paper very much depends on the kind of paper you happen to use
[13:10:58] <Robotron> there are all different kinds of qualities and processes of manufacture which confer various durabilities
[13:11:13] <crutchy> true
[13:12:13] <Robotron> funny story I once read: universities tend to use a really expensive form of paper when sending out offer letters to potential students - the unusual texture is used on the rationale that it makes people think of wealth, splendour etc
[13:12:38] <Robotron> can't remember that kind of paper...but I did get a sheet off one college
[13:12:46] <crutchy> same as the certificate at the end
[13:12:54] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah
[13:13:09] <crutchy> that now hangs up on my wall, pretty much useless to me now
[13:13:11] <MrBluze_Cmd> the cotton based paper
[13:13:18] <Robotron> yep, similar to money
[13:13:35] <Robotron> most 'paper' currency is closer to cloth than tree pulp
[13:13:36] <crutchy> i even spent $80 on a special frame with some chemical that maintains the whiteness
[13:13:55] <crutchy> in straya we use plastic money
[13:13:56] <MrBluze_Cmd> i remmeber that
[13:14:18] <MrBluze_Cmd> my degree is just rolled up in its original packet
[13:14:18] <crutchy> i think i remember the old notes though too
[13:14:27] <crutchy> haha
[13:15:09] <MrBluze_Cmd> $1 bills ..
[13:15:27] <crutchy> lol reminiscing mrbluze
[13:15:33] <Robotron> I'm guessing the frame you bought would be airtight? Guessing the discoloration would be down to water vapour in the air
[13:15:52] <crutchy> dunno it was some yellow shit that they coated the inside of the glass with
[13:15:59] <MrBluze_Cmd> could be
[13:16:32] <crutchy> looks like a regular (if kinda upmarket'ish) looking
[13:16:40] <crutchy> frame
[13:17:05] <crutchy> my parents paid for it :-P
[13:17:34] <MrBluze_Cmd> mine were unemployed when i graduated.. humble pickings for me im afraid
[13:17:59] <Robotron> yeah I'm thinking along the lines of a very, very slow and quite evenly distributed 'water staining' process
[13:18:09] <Robotron> seems to make sense in theory
[13:18:10] <Robotron> haha
[13:18:32] <MrBluze_Cmd> that's entire possible
[13:18:43] <crutchy> my dad worked has worked shift work since when i was born... very good money... shit lifestyle unfortunately
[13:19:12] <MrBluze_Cmd> that is me too
[13:19:17] <MrBluze_Cmd> good money, shit life lol
[13:19:22] <MrBluze_Cmd> but i will cut back in a few years
[13:20:27] <crutchy> i think he kind of conditioned me to avoid it, even though i was tempted at one point
[13:20:36] <crutchy> the money is very tempting
[13:20:49] <crutchy> particularly in the power industry
[13:20:59] <Robotron> I haven't worked long hours in some time...all I can say is that when you work less, the work you do tends to be of a really good quality
[13:21:27] <Robotron> also you'll find yourself having spontanious ideas more
[13:21:52] <crutchy> think of what homer simpson does (sits at a panel) and multiply that by 12 hours and then that by 30 odd years
[13:22:17] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol
[13:22:31] <Robotron> he does handle the plutonium rods from time to time though
[13:22:31] <MrBluze_Cmd> well maybe my job is a bit more varied
[13:22:33] <crutchy> forgot the number of 12 hours per round
[13:22:58] <crutchy> my dad changes flouro tubes sometimes, just to mix things up
[13:23:21] <crutchy> and hoses coal out of conveyors
[13:23:33] <crutchy> it would be a fucking hard slog
[13:23:53] <MrBluze_Cmd> i reckon it would be
[13:23:57] <MrBluze_Cmd> crikey
[13:24:07] <Robotron> no doubt
[13:24:19] <crutchy> if the shit hits the fan you gotta be awake enough to know what to do
[13:24:31] <crutchy> yeah i dunno if i could be paid enough to do that
[13:25:00] <MrBluze_Cmd> .. the shtf thing is the case for me
[13:25:04] <MrBluze_Cmd> those moments SUCK
[13:25:47] <crutchy> i think you mentioned something about where you work mrbluze, but i can't remember :-(
[13:25:54] <crutchy> something to do with logistics?
[13:26:09] <crutchy> my memory sucks
[13:26:31] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah sort of
[13:26:39] <MrBluze_Cmd> logistics / critical management
[13:27:05] <crutchy> the world doesn't function without logistics
[13:27:17] <crutchy> huge industry
[13:27:36] <MrBluze_Cmd> yeah totally
[13:28:38] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - European MEPs Back Single Charger Standard - http://sylnt.us - one-plug-to-rule-them-all
[13:29:29] <crutchy> lol i started up rhythmbox a while ago and let it play and i only just clicked that i've been listening to lily allen for the past 10 mins
[13:30:23] <crutchy> i'm off with the fairies a bit tonight
[13:30:24] <Robotron> my condolences
[13:30:26] <Robotron> :)
[13:30:48] <crutchy> she looks hot, but i don't like her songs
[13:31:07] <crutchy> fast forwards to nero :-)
[13:31:34] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol
[13:31:37] <MrBluze_Cmd> im off to bed
[13:31:51] <crutchy> holy carp it's 11.20
[13:31:54] <Robotron> night MrBluze!
[13:31:57] <crutchy> 11.40 i mean
[13:32:03] <crutchy> night mate
[13:32:18] <crutchy> i should go and introduce myself to my missus
[13:32:28] <crutchy> :-P
[13:32:34] <Robotron> haha
[13:33:01] <MrBluze_Cmd> nite nite
[13:33:07] <MrBluze_Cmd> lol yeah i forgot what mine looks like
[13:33:10] <MrBluze_Cmd> i better go see
[13:33:14] <MrBluze_Cmd> see yas
[13:33:17] MrBluze_Cmd is now known as MrBluze|zzz
[13:33:20] <crutchy> lol *mind falls into gutter and totally twists intended meaning of my last into something dirty*
[13:33:44] <crutchy> yeah i'm tired. might call it quits too
[13:33:54] <crutchy> cheers
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[14:31:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - USA Agrees to Share Control of DNS Root Zone - http://sylnt.us - Global-Villiage-TelePort
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[15:22:38] <Ethanol-fueled> Marijuana rules.
[15:23:00] <Ethanol-fueled> Smoke da pot mon.
[15:23:04] <Ethanol-fueled> Smoke a lot mon.
[15:23:48] <Ethanol-fueled> 420BlazeItLOL
[15:24:19] <Ethanol-fueled> It makes even Ellen Degeneres funny.
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[15:41:45] * Konomi claims false advertising
[15:41:52] <Konomi> his nick says ethanol fueled
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[15:51:06] <n1> he claimed to be drunk last night
[15:51:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Competition to Name Space Mission - http://sylnt.us - may-the-odds-be-in-your-favor
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[16:12:33] <n1> hey janrinok
[16:18:14] <janrinok> n1 hi
[16:18:36] <janrinok> sorry about the delay n1, I'm channel hopping at the moment!
[16:19:24] <janrinok> "so many channels - so little of any value to say" - that might become my sig!
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[16:23:34] <n1> all is good, im reading the news being generally depressed about the situation
[16:24:38] <janrinok> I haven't looked at the 'real' news yet - anything in particular that catches your eye?
[16:26:01] <n1> i've been pondering the deaths of tony benn and bob crow, a little reading on the malaysia flight, an article about the US Navy dumping waste into the 'worlds largest marine reserve' and the hypocrisy surrounding that situation
[16:27:20] <janrinok> Yep, I'm just looking at the headlines now
[16:27:22] <n1> and i just read an article on police brutality, some guy being beaten by 5 cops, subsequently dying for 'failing to show his ID' after trying to apparently calm his wife during a disagreement with her daughter
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[16:27:49] <n1> she got video of it on her phone, obviously
[16:29:02] <janrinok> They'll be a lot of fuss, and no-one will be responsible. It will be a tragic 'accident'.
[16:29:25] <n1> "Police say their actions were protocol, though three have been suspended with pay while the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation continues to investigate"
[16:29:47] <janrinok> Ah, US Police - I was scanning the BBC for that one...
[16:30:13] <n1> yeah
[16:30:32] <n1> it doesnt make much difference to me, there would be different nuance but otherwise it's the same
[16:30:49] <janrinok> Flight MH370 continues to throw up new possibilities
[16:30:57] <n1> viewing myself as a global citizen of sorts, having spent a lot of time around the world in different places
[16:31:16] <n1> yeah, well the 'transmitting for upto 5 hours' after the initial disappearance is interesting
[16:31:50] <janrinok> BBC headlines show 'plane deliberately diverted' and 'comms intentionally disabled'.
[16:31:54] <n1> the dramatic changes in altitude seem calculated, as the plane apparently went up to 45k feet for a while, just above its safe cruising altitude
[16:32:30] <n1> which the theory ive heard would have killed everyone in the cabin, but the cockpit would have been safe because they have seperate non-passive oxygen supplies
[16:33:36] <janrinok> I would have thought that the oxy masks would have come down? But I'm not up to speed with civilian aircraft.
[16:33:54] <n1> they would have, but what i was told is that those oxygen masks are passive
[16:33:59] <n1> and wouldnt actually work properly at that altitude
[16:34:36] <janrinok> Though they would have eventually all died, I can't imagine it being a pleasant period of time!
[16:35:07] <janrinok> But I think this is speculation - I don't know enough to say for sure.
[16:35:20] <n1> it's all speculation
[16:35:44] <n1> even when the official story comes out, it's likely to be different depending on whos official story it is
[16:35:47] <janrinok> yep, I suppose so.
[16:36:02] <n1> malaysia will have a different spin from the US who will have a different spin from the international aviation people
[16:36:51] <janrinok> But I cannot imagine a scenario where someone would want to do that, no-one has claimed responsibility unless we speculate that the pilot cracked up.
[16:37:28] <n1> well, another theory ive heard is it's about money
[16:37:42] <n1> there was valuable cargo on the plane
[16:38:27] <janrinok> But if it landed somewhere, it can't hide?
[16:39:02] <n1> well, that would be the idea, but it's still possible
[16:39:17] <n1> the story reminded me of a plane that disappeared a few years ago
[16:39:24] <janrinok> The plot would make a good novel, but I'll reserve judgement for the time being
[16:40:02] <n1> im not making any judgements
[16:40:06] <n1> just passing on the theories ive heard
[16:40:14] <janrinok> I accept that
[16:40:33] <n1> the previous story i was thinking of is; N844AA
[16:40:44] <janrinok> It seems that those searching are not short of theories, but facts.
[16:40:45] <n1> a plane that got hijacked on a runway in angola
[16:40:48] <n1> and has never been seen since
[16:40:52] <n1> in 2003
[16:41:18] <janrinok> I'll have to Google that when I've finished editing the next item.
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[17:31:57] <NCommander> Man its dead in here
[17:32:11] <FoobarBazbot_> pretty much
[17:32:30] * NCommander throws naked chicks and blackjack in here
[17:32:51] <NCommander> running on a combination of 6502 and Alpha processors
[17:34:22] <NCommander> wow
[17:34:23] <NCommander> nothing
[17:34:28] <NCommander> ...
[17:34:45] * NCommander wonders if he needs to inspire the community with an address to site
[17:44:46] <Tachyon_> :-D
[17:45:10] <Tachyon_> NCommander: inspire us!
[17:45:39] <NCommander> Tachyon_, it also acts as staff dispense cause I make people edit those novels :-)
[17:45:51] * NCommander is an evil commander
[17:45:54] <Tachyon_> :-)
[17:46:11] <Tachyon_> NCommander: how it turned out with the domain ?
[17:46:48] <NCommander> Tachyon_, we're not going to disappear unless we blow up the DNS settings again
[17:46:54] * NCommander loves the house of cards Slash is built on
[17:46:59] <NCommander> Touch one thing and it goes KABOOM
[17:47:08] <Tachyon_> :-)
[17:47:35] <FoobarBazbot_> house of nitrocellulose cards?
[17:48:38] <Tachyon_> slash definatelly deserves rewrite
[17:48:46] <NCommander> FoobarBazbot_, more like unstable hooker. Only functions on the right cocktails of drugs, alcohol and sex.
[17:48:57] <Tachyon_> lol
[17:49:05] <NCommander> Tachyon_, honestly, more of us are kinda siding on keeping it
[17:49:17] <NCommander> We've been hitting 20 hits per second and our hardware is fucking modest as hell
[17:49:42] <NCommander> (varnish helps a lot here since it prevents Apache itself from being the bottleneck for static resources)
[17:50:01] <Tachyon_> NCommander: i'm completely for keeping it for now
[17:50:17] <Tachyon_> we need just the comments to work
[17:50:24] <Tachyon_> (they don't work yes)
[17:50:35] <Tachyon_> and a few other things
[17:50:52] <Tachyon_> <Tachyon_> (they don't work yes)
[17:50:54] <NCommander> The biggest headache is we need to get it weened off Apache 1.3
[17:50:55] <Tachyon_> s/yes/yet
[17:50:55] * SedBot offers Tychon_ a /
[17:50:57] <NCommander> And fix some of the braindamage
[17:50:59] <Tachyon_> /
[17:51:35] <Tachyon_> NCommander: in the long term, i think we need complete rewrite tough
[17:51:44] <FoobarBazbot_> NCommander, I don't have that much problem with slash, I just think it would be much better for the future if we rewrite it, and get it right this time. And ditch perl, awk is better. much more readable code.
[17:51:44] <Tachyon_> perl is horrible language to maintain
[17:51:58] <NCommander> Rewrites generally cause far more pain than is worthwhile
[17:51:59] <Tachyon_> xD
[17:52:15] <NCommander> Even the other site is still running slash under Beta
[17:52:35] * FoobarBazbot_ wonders at what point in that sentence people will realize he's not serious.
[17:52:37] <NCommander> BTW, my random funny sign for the day: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net
[17:53:01] <Tachyon_> :-)
[17:53:03] <NCommander> FoobarBazbot_, ugh, just saw it. In my defense, I started today in Singapore, had lunch in the Philippines, and standing in Hong Kong right now
[17:53:32] <Tachyon_> wow
[17:53:42] * FoobarBazbot_ really does like awk, but one would have to be insane to try something like slash in it.
[17:54:53] <FoobarBazbot_> As for rewrites, http://www.jwz.org
[17:57:17] <Tachyon_> NCommander: why is slash so complex ? It seems it doesn't have that many features
[17:58:21] <NCommander> Tachyon_, we're just not using a lot of them
[17:58:25] <Tachyon_> there is some story submissions, some comments some user fancy things ...
[18:01:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US to Relinquish its Stewardship of the Internet - http://sylnt.us - symbolic-gesture
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[18:06:00] <drussell> Isn' t that essentially a dupe of 2 stories prior?
[18:07:06] <n1> the prior story wasnt quite so clickbait though ;)
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[18:47:28] <xlefay> Anyone remember Crackz & his upcoming baby girl? Guess the long and tiresome nights just got real! => http://soylentnews.org ;-)
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[19:11:47] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Game Developers Try to Depict Non-Sexist Art - http://sylnt.us - the-impossible-takes-a-little-longer
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[19:34:20] <n1> wb janrinok
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[19:56:33] * n1 yawn
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[21:01:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Death Star Achitect's Open Letter on Vents Design - http://sylnt.us - smile,-its-the-weekend
[21:10:36] <FoobarBazbot> achitect?
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[21:13:27] MrBluze|zzz is now known as MrBluze
[21:14:16] <FoobarBazbot_> also Death Start?
[21:24:16] <janrinok> fixed thanks
[21:25:45] <FoobarBazbot_> janrinok: I'm still seeing "Death Star Achitect" in the title, even though "Death Start" is now gone from the summary...
[21:25:57] <FoobarBazbot_> never mind, both correct now.
[21:26:08] <janrinok> ok I suspect it was cache
[21:27:04] <FoobarBazbot_> yeah, I assumed both would come through the cache at the same time, but w/e
[21:32:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Death Star Architect's Open Letter on Vents Design - http://sylnt.us - smile,-its-the-weekend
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[21:40:06] <unitron> Well, changing the name to deathstart.org would be sort of an ulitmate insider joke.
[21:47:56] <xlefay> unitron: that was your comment about webchat accessibility?
[21:48:07] <xlefay> e.g. increased fonts etc? or was that just about general clients?
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[21:54:30] <unitron> half making sure I was still signed in, half being a smart*ss
[21:55:03] <xlefay> not following, but I'm drafting up plans to make the webchat more accessible.
[21:55:27] <unitron> by webchat do you mean this IRC thingie?
[21:55:51] <xlefay> Yes
[21:56:37] <unitron> unitron says "what's CTCP?"
[21:56:52] <unitron> successor to CCCP?
[21:56:58] <unitron> : - )
[21:57:03] <xlefay> It was me asking what client you were using in order to properly respond to your question
[21:57:11] <xlefay> It told me you were using the webchat ;)
[21:57:39] <unitron> By which you mean http://chat.sylnt.us
[21:57:40] <xlefay> it's "client to client protocol" to be more exact, doesn't really matter. :)
[21:57:48] <xlefay> Yes, that's the webchat.
[21:58:32] <xlefay> Any specifics you want to see in accessibility? e.g. option to increase fonts, etc?
[21:58:41] <unitron> Yeah, getting thrown out is more down to TWC cable than what it connects me to
[21:59:12] <unitron> You know how the second line starts tucked under the time stamp?
[21:59:33] <unitron> Wish it aligned with the first line after the user name instead
[21:59:35] <xlefay> Not really, can you make a screenshot?
[21:59:54] <unitron> and blue on black backfground not real easy to read
[22:00:14] <unitron> most text in white, but some stuff is in other colors
[22:00:24] <xlefay> You can change the colors if you wish, at the menu (right upper color, "menu" > "options")
[22:00:32] <unitron> some of which stand out from black background better than others
[22:00:39] <unitron> BRB
[22:04:57] <unitron> Strange, I pulled the text color down from white to gray and now the text in other colors is easier to read against the black background. ???
[22:06:15] <xlefay> Which one did you pull exactly?
[22:06:24] <xlefay> main foreground color, slider #3?
[22:13:51] <unitron> Main foreground color turned out to be the one that changed the color of what I'm typing rignt now
[22:14:35] <unitron> CCCP is USSR in Russian letttering
[22:16:03] <xlefay> I'll be back in a bit. And not sure what the USSR has got anything to do with, but bbl.
[22:16:05] <unitron> But there are 3 sliders and foreground is the topmost one, the background one that defaults to black is the bottommost and what I would have considered #3
[22:16:14] <xlefay> yea there are multiple slides
[22:16:40] <xlefay> The first three slides work together, just fiddle with it till you find what works for you, same goes with the others ;)
[22:16:42] <xlefay> bbl
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[22:39:21] <what-if-i> CCCP LIVES
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[22:39:52] <what-if-i> #soylent = #soylenin
[22:41:28] <what-if-i> СССР воссоединиться
[22:44:07] <what-if-i> Все товарищи объединиться для спокойствия в # #
[22:44:27] <Space_Man> nope
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[23:11:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Mozilla Creating a Language for Building Browsers - http://sylnt.us - we-always-need-new-languages
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[23:22:10] <what-if-i> ебем Бета
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[23:26:41] <MrBluze|backlater> CCCP != CTCP
[23:27:03] <xlefay> MrBluze|backlater: backlater != here
[23:27:50] <Subsentient> CTCP == DPRK
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[23:31:41] <Ethanol-fueled> mexicans_are_an_urban_blight++
[23:31:41] <Bender> karma - mexicans_are_an_urban_blight: 1
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[23:38:24] <Space_Man> mexicans_are_an_urban_blight--
[23:38:24] <Bender> karma - mexicans_are_an_urban_blight: 0
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