#Soylent | Logs for 2014-03-12
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[23:51:03] <holycause> my intuition tells me it isn't so either
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[23:50:13] <drussell> I don't believe that is so...
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[23:42:55] <holycause> pardon my noobness when it comes to IRC, but why is this so?
[23:42:44] <holycause> "There's a lot of people not on IRC because you're not on a major network"
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[23:21:21] <Hyperbolebot> [SoylentNews] - Virtual Reality and Chimpanzees - http://sylnt.us - owned-by-a-chimpanzee
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[23:11:47] <Alberto> the morron speaks on Hyperbolebot
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[23:05:11] <kobach> whered pouting go
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[23:03:07] <Hyperbolebot> karma - weeds: 2
[23:03:07] <Alberto> weeds--
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[23:02:18] <xyzzyyxxyx> bids adieu
[23:02:14] <Hyperbolebot> karma - bacon: 162
[23:02:14] <Alberto> bacon++
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[22:59:15] <xyzzyyxxyx> l8r
[22:59:11] <Hyperbolebot> karma - weeds: 3
[22:59:10] <xyzzyyxxyx> weeds++
[22:59:01] <weeds> Enjoyed the conversation, have to go. Admit the poll sucks for real business - no changes will be made based on it. Come up with better true voting system.
[22:58:27] * xyzzyyxxyx notes that there are still good people in the world
[22:56:53] <Cyprus> nice
[22:56:15] <xyzzyyxxyx> http://soylentnews.org better link
[22:55:51] <weeds> mod up^^
[22:55:51] <xyzzyyxxyx> http://soylentnews.org
[22:55:39] <Cyprus> journal?
[22:55:28] <xyzzyyxxyx> srsly
[22:55:21] <xyzzyyxxyx> that journal is required reading
[22:54:19] <nobbis> nvm i see what you mean
[22:53:39] <nobbis> drussell: how to weight responses ?
[22:53:13] <weeds> Ok, so now what is the best path to get there? Can the existing poll be modified?
[22:52:21] <weeds> ha ha
[22:52:18] <xyzzyyxxyx> also that, nobbis
[22:52:17] <drussell> I'd advocate for logged in users only for a "voting" system on site issues, the site direction, etc. I think, yes...
[22:52:12] <Hyperbolebot> karma - poutine: -313
[22:52:11] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine--
[22:52:09] <nobbis> too busy vote stuffing
[22:52:07] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine was too busy pouting for me to notice, weeds
[22:51:59] <nobbis> sorry not paying attention
[22:51:43] <weeds> on the journal entry^
[22:51:12] <weeds> old news :0
[22:51:05] <drussell> weeds: The only hard part is deciding how to weight responses and that could perhaps be a simpler with option 2... Again, I'm no statistician but I'm sure there must be good info on this problem out there
[22:50:52] <nobbis> ooh our overlord has a journal entry.....
[22:50:48] <weeds> drussell: only for logged in members?
[22:50:32] <xyzzyyxxyx> IRC tied 155 to 155
[22:49:43] <xyzzyyxxyx> drussell: option 2
[22:49:40] <weeds> We would like to start picking a name right away - was planned for tomorrow. What is the best fastest way to get a vote? Here in the US we are used to pick your favorite even if several are offered.
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[22:48:25] <drussell> No, I'm saying either rank system so if we have 5 choices you get to pick your 1,2,3,4,5 choice OR use a system where you rate each option as a 0-5 or a -5 to +5 or whatever to get your base data
[22:47:22] <weeds> drussellAnd requires lots of development.
[22:47:20] <nobbis> ok, you can only have one 5 choice ?
[22:46:51] <drussell> The ranked way or 0-5 or -5+5 systems lets you do it all in one round without all the mess
[22:46:47] <Cyprus> so we're going to have a.... vote on voting? (yyeeeaaahhhhh *shades*)
[22:46:33] * xyzzyyxxyx waves a purple finger, and a blue one, and a yellow one....
[22:46:10] <xyzzyyxxyx> ^
[22:46:03] <drussell> Same problem in politics in many countries with rounds, causes even more strategic voting
[22:45:39] <drussell> nobiss: What if my second choice is one of the ones that gets bumped? Do I have to try to see into the future and vote strategically for the one I think will be lower so I'll be able to vote for it in the 2nd round, etc. etc.
[22:45:36] <mattie_p> so I guess we need to solicit an implementation we could use to achieve these goals
[22:45:14] <weeds> mattie_p: yes I know so we've talked about one vote per logged in user (isn't perfect, but much better)
[22:44:58] <mattie_p> weeds: those accusations might be valid, and additionally, we would prefer 1 vote per uid for something like this.
[22:44:33] <xyzzyyxxyx> http://en.wikipedia.org makes my head hurt from tallying but I still like it
[22:44:25] <dx3bydt3> literally poutine--
[22:44:23] <mattie_p> weeds: there were accusations of vote stuffing in the current poll
[22:44:12] * kobach notes that the channel ## is poutine free
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[22:44:03] <weeds> no new code required, just rounds - survivor!
[22:43:54] <nobbis> drussell: but i think thats valid
[22:43:43] <mattie_p> the consensus of the staff seems to be to hold off on voting until we can implement a better system for polls of this nature, but we want it to be self-hosted
[22:43:34] <drussell> That doesn't always work, sometimes things change significantly when you start removing choices
[22:43:33] * kobach notes the channel ## is poutine free
[22:43:04] <dx3bydt3> with ranked choices, tabulate the results of the first choices, knock off the lowest scoring choice, repeat until only one result remains.
[22:42:49] <drussell> Cyprus: Perhaps -5 to +5 or whatever, then... You know what I mean, though... Yes/no or pick one of the following isn't really the right kind of vote
[22:42:08] <Cyprus> mattie_p: eh you could do it now with a 500 error *grins*
[22:41:46] <weeds> you could get the same effect with rounds, no?
[22:41:44] <mattie_p> can we get some legitimate FOSS implementations we could install that restrict voting to 1 per user?
[22:41:39] * kobach notes the channel ## is poutine free
[22:41:23] <xyzzyyxxyx> so-called 'round-robin' seems nice.....
[22:41:19] <Cyprus> I'm not sure 0 covers my feelings on the potentially disputed SoylentNews
[22:40:54] <drussell> In this case, another option would be for each potential name to have a 0-5 slider beside it for hate -> like or whatever (more like a strongly agree/agree/neutral/disagree/strongly disagree type survey)
[22:40:39] <dx3bydt3> having ranked choices would allow that in one go.
[22:40:34] <xyzzyyxxyx> http://en.wikipedia.org
[22:40:32] <weeds> xyzzyyxxyx: beauty - I get it, thanks!
[22:39:48] <nobbis> i think the plan anyway was to have a couple of rounds with the least popular being eliminated
[22:39:32] <xyzzyyxxyx> http://en.wikipedia.org
[22:39:15] <xyzzyyxxyx> http://en.wikipedia.org
[22:39:04] <Cyprus> Agreed with drussel on fptp
[22:38:12] <weeds> How do you rank the OK's and Yucks? Doesn't the number one vote still win?
[22:36:51] <drussell> weeds: For the name, people are likely to have a favorite, a few they think are OK and some they hate... A first past the post system pretty much invariably fails at these types of questions. Nobody except a small group ends up happy in many cases and it fuels the very type of resentment we're trying to avoid
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[22:35:24] <weeds> drussell: I don't see that, please elaborate
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[22:35:06] <drussell> For the name vote (and potentally other types of important votes) I think it's absolutely essential
[22:34:41] <nobbis> could we use mod points somehow ?
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[22:34:28] <weeds> does that complexity help?
[22:34:26] <drussell> Something like this must have been studied before, I'm sure there are examples
[22:34:09] <drussell> Possibly a weighted score added so a person's "top" vote gets more "points" than the next, etc, I'd guess...
[22:34:05] <xyzzyyxxyx> bye
[22:34:05] <nobbis> bye
[22:34:03] <weeds> later dude
[22:33:51] <LaminatorX> See you later gang.
[22:33:37] * dx3bydt3 likes the idea of ranking.
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[22:33:23] <LaminatorX> .deop
[22:33:22] <Hyperbolebot> karma - drussell: 3
[22:33:22] <dx3bydt3> drussell++
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[22:32:58] <drussell> Not sure what the exact algorythm would be to find the winner, but it really needs to be rankable at a minimum IMHO
[22:32:37] <nobbis> ^^
[22:32:28] <drussell> And no, you wouldn't show the current rankings in any way shape or form...
[22:31:38] <drussell> For the name vote, either some type of suggestion box system or "rank these from best to worst" type vote of registered users would be a minimum requirement of that voting system, I'd say...
[22:31:36] <Cyprus> I can see i need to bite the bullet and learn slashcode *sighs*
[22:31:32] <weeds> but... a good solution to the current poll has to be item 1, doesn't it?
[22:31:01] <Hyperbolebot> karma - weeds: 2
[22:31:01] <xyzzyyxxyx> weeds++
[22:31:00] <cmdr_LaminatorX> ^^^
[22:30:43] <weeds> don't show the result until it's closed
[22:29:59] <Cyprus> lol google form
[22:29:57] <weeds> registered users vote
[22:29:52] <xyzzyyxxyx> <ducks>
[22:29:44] <xyzzyyxxyx> Google Form?
[22:29:41] <Cyprus> require uid, lock out the last 5%?
[22:29:32] <drussell> But just as I've never taken the results of a poll on ol' /. seriously, we must not accidentally do that here and read too much into the results
[22:29:29] <nobbis> how do people feel about not allowing AC votes ?
[22:29:27] <Cyprus> so kidding aside, what would the best alternative be?
[22:29:25] <xyzzyyxxyx> -_-
[22:28:21] <Cyprus> if the response to the question of how does my wife vote is from /b/ someone's getting a dirty sock with a vote instead
[22:28:08] <drussell> This is a really tricky one... It's going to be very difficult to do real direction vote-type-things even with a system orders of magnitude better than the slashpoll system
[22:27:33] <Cyprus> And there it is
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[22:27:24] <paulej72> Cyprus you do have another apendage :)
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[22:26:52] <weeds> So what is to be done for this poll?
[22:26:08] <Cyprus> what if we don't have fingers?
[22:25:58] <cmdr_LaminatorX> With fingerprints on the card, and blood samples.
[22:25:42] <Cyprus> It's the only way to be sure
[22:25:35] <Cyprus> Clearly we should all send postcards with our vote to slashcott HQ
[22:25:02] <drussell> Had I been on IRC at the beginning, I would have pointed that out :) I thought it was just a passing feedback question, not that anyone would actually be taking anything serious away from a slashpoll.. <insert poll disclamer again>
[22:24:56] <cmdr_LaminatorX> The n008 mistakes will continue until experience accrues.
[22:24:33] <cmdr_LaminatorX> It was used because it was at hand, drussell, without really having looked closely at its underpinnings, unfortunately.
[22:24:25] <weeds> drussell: didn't know any better till now, I guess.
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[22:23:09] <drussell> I'm alarmed that the poll system was even being CONSIDERED for the name vote, though... The how often stories should be posted? and IRC? polls shouldn't have used that mechanism either if they're supposed to actually mean something other than an invitation for comments and feedback
[22:22:15] <weeds> poutine: having an opinion (even if it turns out to be the best) isn't grounds for being a @#$%
[22:21:45] <Cyprus> criticism is different than asshattery. Most of what I've seen has blurred the line
[22:21:41] <paulej72> that is better than a half-wit cmdr_LaminatorX :)
[22:21:10] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I'll settle for half-wise.
[22:20:40] <weeds> The Laminator is wise (should have left the last sentence off though)
[22:20:37] <Hyperbolebot> karma - cyprus: 1
[22:20:37] <nobbis> Cyprus++
[22:20:35] <drussell> Exactly
[22:20:35] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] if criticism of your ideas causes your ideas to no longer be good, then your ideas were not good to begin with
[22:20:30] <cmdr_LaminatorX> ^^
[22:20:24] <Cyprus> the devil's advocate can be professional though
[22:20:03] <drussell> It's always great to have people play devil's advocate, you always want all sides of the story, opinions, etc. but when done in a destructive manner can end up causing much more harm than good
[22:19:19] <Hyperbolebot> karma - cmdr_laminatorx: 2
[22:19:19] <nobbis> cmdr_LaminatorX++
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[22:18:36] <xlefay> It doesn't matter, it's annoying. I'm out of here.
[22:18:29] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I am actually grateful for poutine's insights. Thanks to his ugly invective, we're aware of an operational weakness before it became more serious. We were seriously going to poll on the name tomorrow. . Please though, poutine, be less combattive. It may well be that 1 is gaining so mant more votes in part becaise you're being such a jerk in your advocacy for option 2.
[22:18:27] <xlefay> I honestly just think he's just compensating for something else.
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[22:18:03] <drussell> Could explain some of the anger and vitrol
[22:17:48] <drussell> Perhaps that's the way he was treated as a child?
[22:17:20] <drussell> nobbis: Something tells me he would, yes...
[22:16:48] <nobbis> you would say that to a 5 yr old ?
[22:16:21] <Cyprus> regardless of his temperment, it doesn't serve anything for this to turn into lkml
[22:16:18] <weeds> (I'm slow)
[22:16:17] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I guess you have to make movies to criticize them, and you have to play piano to tell a 5 year old that he sucks when he's banging away at it
[22:16:06] <dx3bydt3> finally?
[22:15:52] <Hyperbolebot> karma - weeds: 1
[22:15:52] <xyzzyyxxyx> weeds++
[22:15:47] <Hyperbolebot> karma - pauliej72: 5
[22:15:47] <xyzzyyxxyx> pauliej72++
[22:15:45] <weeds> poutine has finally shown himself to be a troll.
[22:15:36] <paulej72> QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT SLASH UINTL YOU START COMMITING CODE poutine
[22:15:33] <xyzzyyxxyx> Cyprus: noble
[22:15:33] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] why would I contribute to slashcode paulej72? I can determine if progress is being made by looking at git commits
[22:14:58] <Cyprus> xyzz: I can still try
[22:14:57] <paulej72> TO SLASHCODE poutine
[22:14:50] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] if you use xchat/hexchat, you're running bits of my code
[22:14:44] <xyzzyyxxyx> Cyprus: he seems incapable of such
[22:14:43] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I contribute to quite a few open source projects
[22:14:32] <paulej72> where are your commits poutine WHERE ARE THEY
[22:14:24] <Cyprus> poutine: It would be more helpful to provide constructive options / critisim as opposed to attacks
[22:14:21] <Hyperbolebot> karma - drussell: 2
[22:14:21] <xyzzyyxxyx> drussell++
[22:14:16] <nobbis> certainly the sentiment in here was heavily in favour of option 1
[22:14:14] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] just templating changes
[22:14:10] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I don't see much work being done there
[22:14:07] <drussell> If somone cares enough to look into helping the project, I would expect them to be able to manage to bring themselves to log into a dedicated IRC server. If not, do we really want them "helping" ??
[22:14:06] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I've looked at your commits
[22:14:03] <Hyperbolebot> karma - poutine: -312
[22:14:03] <dx3bydt3> poutine--
[22:13:51] <Hyperbolebot> karma - poutine: -311
[22:13:51] <paulej72> poutine--
[22:13:48] <Hyperbolebot> karma - pauliej72: 4
[22:13:47] <xyzzyyxxyx> pauliej72++
[22:13:35] <xyzzyyxxyx> there it is
[22:13:29] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] You guys suck at coming up with polling methods
[22:13:25] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I interpereted the change to the fact that there's a spirited debate going on and more people are deciding to cast votes. The fact that the discussion is going on here may in and of istelf bias those votes towards approving of here, but I don't have a problem with that.
[22:13:20] <paulej72> fuck you poutine I have been working my ass off on slashcode for two and half weeks
[22:13:18] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I can't even see the topic over therre
[22:13:10] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] some people aren't on IRC because relay bots are annoying as shit and you guys left freenode
[22:13:01] <xyzzyyxxyx> 152 to 152 by number
[22:12:49] <dx3bydt3> you could start a topic and have people vote with a comment, then only count the registered users.
[22:12:46] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] there's no real indication SN has a working developer
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[22:12:05] <cmdr_LaminatorX> That's why I seggested a 3rd party.
[22:12:02] <nobbis> there was a larger gap, i'm not saying its was rigged but the gap was larger earlier
[22:11:58] <weeds> One vote per login.
[22:11:49] <paulej72> I do not think we can limit a slash poll to logged in users very easily. The code is not easy to modify in that way
[22:11:22] <weeds> poutine: claims without proof can be dismissed without proof.
[22:11:12] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: "closing the gap while no others moved" is patently false - the percentage may have stayed the same in relation to the others, but all numbers ticked up accordingly
[22:11:04] <dx3bydt3> I think limiting to registered users would be sufficient.
[22:11:01] <cmdr_LaminatorX> /. polls were never matters of consequence.
[22:10:52] <Cyprus> that too =)
[22:10:46] <paulej72> no one ever did a real poll on /.
[22:10:39] <cmdr_LaminatorX> They're all gamable. We need to at least not be trivially gamable.
[22:10:20] <Cyprus> The reason this worked on /. was the law of large numbers
[22:09:55] <paulej72> I am jsut poiting out it is easy to game any online vote if that is your goal
[22:09:54] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] so no new regs could vote, and people with multiple uids have to work to vote multiple times
[22:09:33] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Set UID max limit for voting, run the vote, 1x per uid and additionally per ip and email address
[22:09:08] <cmdr_LaminatorX> True pauliej72, but that's at least better than voting AC as often as you want.
[22:08:58] <weeds> +paulej72: that's why I mentioned it. You could just as well do one vote per login.
[22:08:54] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] looks representative of honest voting
[22:08:44] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] amazing how #1 closed the gap in the period of an hour while none of the other choices moved
[22:08:25] BaconTree changed topic of #Soylent to: SoylentNews is LIVE people! https://soylentnews.org | Wiki: http://sylnt.us | Forums: http://sylnt.us | Code: http://sylnt.us | Got bugs? http://sylnt.us | Who's who? http://sylnt.us | Get Involved: mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org | Staff discussions in #staff are now open for all, always | /join ## - to chill
[22:08:16] <xyzzyyxxyx> Poll's tied
[22:08:11] <weeds> beta leads to torches and pitchforks
[22:08:05] <paulej72> some of us have access to many many eamil addresses
[22:08:02] <Hyperbolebot> karma - inger: 1
[22:08:02] <Cyprus> Inger++
[22:07:53] <Ingar> suffering leads to beta
[22:07:46] <Cyprus> at least, i think that's what Yoda said
[22:07:44] <weeds> Isn't survey monkey one vote per email?
[22:07:27] <Cyprus> surveymonkey leads to hate, hate leads to suffering
[22:07:10] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I think we should use something like surveymonkey, at least for the immediate future.
[22:07:07] <weeds> drussel: All true, but it has lead to some bigger issues no the least of which is: A Poll is no way to make important (or even trivial) decisions!
[22:06:41] <xlefay> Seriously, I'm starting a new channel without that stupid relay bot. Least a place people can chill without distractions or drama or whatnot. ;)
[22:06:30] * paulej72 never assumes anything about slash anymore
[22:06:04] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] you can't run the poll on IRC
[22:06:01] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] There's a lot of people not on IRC because you're not on a major network
[22:05:59] <xlefay> Cyprus: that's because the IRC isn't currently hosted on SN.
[22:05:57] <Cyprus> which suprised me
[22:05:46] <Cyprus> true, i was assuming based on irc being 6 based
[22:05:25] * xlefay assumes IPv6 works yet @ the website...
[22:05:14] <xlefay> Cyprus: only if you've got the privacy mod enabled.
[22:05:12] <Cyprus> or it just not understanding 6
[22:05:04] <Cyprus> due to the ipv6 privacy rotations
[22:04:54] <Cyprus> ip would explain as well
[22:04:52] <xlefay> I really think you should stop accusing people of things they may or may not have done. Innocent till proven no?
[22:04:33] <drussell> Why on earth is this IRC question such a big deal? The only people who are going to be on here to care are the people developing, maintaining, etc. behind the scenes. The average user doesn't even care. It has nothing to do with the actual site!
[22:04:28] <paulej72> Cyprus I have not looked at the code but it could be. Other parts of slash use a hash of the ipaddress, I would have thought polls would have too
[22:04:20] <cmdr_LaminatorX> The name vote is going to happen. We were going to do it tomorrowm but given what we're learning about the poll here I think that may be unwise.
[22:04:05] <xlefay> Poutine: That's incorrect. In fact, we ourselves have doubts about the voting system as well; and I for one don't believe for a second, like you, the votes were all real (whether it's SN irc or FN) but.. I don't believe the staff was involved in that.
[22:03:09] <Cyprus> My guess is it's cookie based?
[22:03:07] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] a domain we were supposed to vote on
[22:03:05] <weeds> 1. Admit that the poll is no way to conduct business 2. Come up with a better way.
[22:03:02] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] just like when Barrabas picked soylentnews.org
[22:02:55] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] No, I'm pointing out how when votes don't go the way SN staff wants, they act like something was voted on that it wasn't
[22:02:48] <lentilmania> honor the vote. embrace the chaos.
[22:02:45] <cmdr_LaminatorX> It may be worth examining those logs no matter what the result. We need to do better than this for the name vote.
[22:02:21] <xlefay> So in this case, poutine is effectively arguing to veto the vote because there's no clear way of knowing whether the initial votes were stuffed or not.
[22:02:12] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I could prove vote fraud with accurate server logs
[22:01:46] <Cyprus> ff
[22:01:29] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Same browser or different?
[22:01:13] <Cyprus> the third vote was the same computer as the second
[22:01:11] <paulej72> Cyprus no we do not know if the poll code is working well that is why all poll results say what weeds just posted
[22:00:58] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Ouch.
[22:00:49] <Cyprus> I voted a total of 3 times: my origional vote for freenode, and 2 on dont care as tests
[22:00:35] <xlefay> lentilmania: that's the correct question and the answer is "No."
[22:00:32] <weeds> "This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane."
[22:00:17] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I broached the subject for discussion here in #Soylent a few hours ago. As the debate continued, the spread closed to neck and neck.
[22:00:09] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] <SoylentBender> [nobbis] according to the community
[22:00:09] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] <SoylentBender> [nobbis] moving to freenode wins the day
[22:00:08] <lentilmania> has slashcode polling ever worked "properly"?
[21:59:44] <Cyprus> unbased assertations aside: I was able to vote multiple times when I checked after someone asked while logged in on my user. Are we sure the poll code is working properly to lock votes?
[21:59:38] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] This was after I made them realize it'd be viewed as a DICE-like move if they totally threw out the results, which they planned on doing
[21:59:10] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] now freenode has 149, and SN IRC has 147
[21:59:03] <paulej72> if everyone in this channel voted today after we began talking about this the results would be easily justified
[21:58:58] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] alberto, 12pm pacific, freenode had ~145 votes, and independent soylent had ~60
[21:58:50] <cmdr_LaminatorX> The spread was around 50 votes at it's widest, but has since closed to single digits.
[21:58:39] * xyzzyyxxyx asks if this behavior is enough to get someone banned / cut off ( in a previous very recent life I was / am a chat admin )
[21:58:03] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Poutine is questioning the validity of the current vote tally, entirely without evidence.
[21:57:54] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] so they cheated the results for an independent soylentnews IRC to be over 2x what it was an hour ago
[21:57:28] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] alberto, freenode was strongly winning until the last hour, when staff was made aware of that fact, and that they'd look bad if they just didn't go with the results
[21:57:09] * Cyprus sighs
[21:57:08] <Hyperbolebot> karma - cmdr_laminatorx: 1
[21:57:08] <xyzzyyxxyx> cmdr_LaminatorX++
[21:56:59] <Alberto> the poll was a fake?
[21:56:47] <Alberto> What that means
[21:56:45] <cmdr_LaminatorX> That is unfounded.
[21:56:23] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] to show how it was unreliable
[21:56:19] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Alberto SN staff didn't like the direction the IRC poll was going so they cheated the results at the very end
[21:56:13] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I believe so , yes.
[21:56:09] <everdred> Or did mine get stuck?
[21:56:02] <everdred> Sorry to go all off-topic here, but does karma max out at 50?
[21:55:57] <cmdr_LaminatorX> The drama seems to have receeded, thankfully.
[21:55:38] <Alberto> whats's up with the drama?
[21:55:32] <Alberto> so
[21:53:28] <cmdr_LaminatorX> But it clearly hasn't been enough of a problem for them to do something about it.
[21:53:10] <cmdr_LaminatorX> That's not to say that the stations aren't leaving themselves vulnurable to industrial espionage or outright vandalism via session hijacks.
[21:52:53] <xyzzyyxxyx> "Cat causes family to hide and dial 911, Film at Eleven"
[21:52:25] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Mostly stuff that's being broadcast in the next few days anyway, so security of the transferred data is seldom an issue.
[21:51:39] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Many, many video files.
[21:51:24] <drussell> poutine: Sometimes, perhaps... Other times (like when interfacing with parts of legacy systems, for example) FTP is da' bomb :)
[21:51:05] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] what kind of data is sent through ftp with your business cmdr_laminatorx?
[21:50:48] <xyzzyyxxyx> ^
[21:50:39] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I wish I had the liberty to only work with competant, security concious clients. Sales is less concerned with that, however.
[21:49:53] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] you might be at the behest of an incompetent person at your job, but that does not make it acceptable in 2014
[21:49:49] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: shockingly, the world is full of incompetents
[21:49:44] <everdred> cmdr_LaminatorX: I'd say you have a responsibility to try to correct your client's ways.
[21:49:44] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Unwise, to be sure.
[21:49:21] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] It's an incompetent decision to use FTP in 2014
[21:48:30] -!- bradley13 has quit [Client Quit]
[21:48:28] <cmdr_LaminatorX> But that is the reality of the situation.
[21:48:21] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] drussell, if it's within a company, there's a lot better solutions than ftp, with better resume, progress, error checking/correction, and other information
[21:48:20] <xlefay> ( drussell you can still fix it! )
[21:48:18] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I'm not saying that they're making wise choices.
[21:47:58] <xlefay> and about almost all web hosting providers.
[21:47:58] * SedBot offers drossall a /
[21:47:58] <drussell> s/to/for
[21:47:50] <cmdr_LaminatorX> And about half of the ad agencies.
[21:47:43] <drussell> poutine: If it's inside a secured network, VPN, whatever, plain old ftp is sufficient to virtually anything
[21:47:40] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Every TV station in the US.
[21:47:28] -!- bradley13 [bradley13!~5b8a3cd4@91.138.ik.ity] has joined #Soylent
[21:47:20] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] and is okay with that
[21:47:12] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] What kind of company is just like, "Oh yeah, all those files you transfer, and whatever your login credentials are, can be listened in on, and controlled by any one of those 40 some computers your traffic goes through"
[21:46:40] <Hyperbolebot> karma - laminatorx: 2
[21:46:40] <xlefay> LaminatorX++ ;')
[21:46:33] <cmdr_LaminatorX> It hasn't come up.
[21:46:30] * xyzzyyxxyx sighs
[21:46:16] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] would you provide telnetd access also?
[21:46:10] <weeds> ^^
[21:46:04] <xyzzyyxxyx> ^
[21:45:53] <cmdr_LaminatorX> The reason I use FTP every day at work, is because my clients use it. If we want their business, we need to take their files. If we try to get hardgore about certs and such, they can take their dollars to someone who is more accomodating.
[21:44:34] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] There is literally no good reason to use ftp in 2014, literally
[21:44:22] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: hey! I was designed in 1971, you insensitive clod!
[21:44:07] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Poutine, I ask you again, please dial it back. The down's syndrome crack was over the line.
[21:44:00] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] that were not designed in 1971
[21:43:56] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] there's better ways of doing things if you don't need any secure authentication methods
[21:43:52] <Hyperbolebot> karma - pauliej72: 3
[21:43:52] <xyzzyyxxyx> pauliej72++
[21:43:34] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] don't save passwords in plaintext, 2 factor or more authentication is usually a good idea, don't use md5 for anything security related
[21:43:30] <paulej72> poutine ftp is only insecrure if you are using it for secrue puropses. There are uses that do not require security
[21:42:31] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] sometimes people need to be told of their bad security practices in terms that sink in paulej72
[21:42:14] <paulej72> poutine you do not have to call people names
[21:42:04] <Hyperbolebot> [SoylentNews] - Women Avoid STEM Degrees to Get Better Grades? - http://sylnt.us - this-will-not-be-controversial-oh-no-sir
[21:41:49] * Cyprus still giggling over the hyperbole from the hyperbole bot
[21:41:47] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Bruce Schneier would agree
[21:41:33] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] in any event, using ftp in 2014 is an instant indicator you might have downs syndrome
[21:41:14] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] want to waste CPU), you can use FTPS
[21:41:09] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] There's no reason to use FTP, use sftp, if that's overkill (like you don't care if people overhear the content of the transmission and dont'
[21:41:05] Cyprus_afk is now known as Cyprus
[21:41:02] <drussell> I have my original Wang 2200LVP minicomputer downstairs with it's 8 meg 8" Shugart HDD.. Still works :)
[21:40:47] <paulej72> drussell I have leftover troll food that will go to waste if I do not use it, that is why I am doing it :)
[21:40:29] <weeds> just a guess
[21:40:15] <drussell> Lol, nope, 70s :)
[21:40:13] <xyzzyyxxyx> the Web is 25yrs old today, lets stop using it, clearly it's old and out of style
[21:40:09] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] sftp is ok
[21:40:05] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] SFTP is not FTP
[21:40:02] <weeds> and drussell is from the 60's!
[21:39:59] <everdred> poutine: Does SFTP count?
[21:39:58] <nobbis> i'm a relic from the 70's with no purpose in 2014 you insesitive etc.
[21:39:56] * drussell wonders why he's feeding the trolls :)
[21:39:52] <cmdr_LaminatorX> FTP is heavily used in broadcasting, all the time.
[21:39:51] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] UNIX changed, FTP didn't
[21:39:41] <drussell> So is UNIX
[21:39:39] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: oh, youth, so vain
[21:39:31] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I'm not joking when I say it's from the 70s
[21:39:26] <drussell> poutine: Right back at ya, buddy...
[21:39:00] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] with no purpose in 2014
[21:38:57] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] it's a relic of the 70s
[21:38:53] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] ok well then you're an idiot
[21:38:46] <drussell> poutine: I use ftp pretty much every day
[21:38:42] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: tasks and robots and things
[21:38:11] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] who even uses FTP in 2014?
[21:37:36] <nobbis> xyzzyyxxyx: i wouldn;t vote against him
[21:37:36] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] who even runs it
[21:37:20] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] and it's hosted in germany
[21:37:04] <drussell> A name vote really needs a ranking system type vote to get a sense of what people really feel about various names
[21:37:03] <xyzzyyxxyx> Kim Jung-un got 100% of the vote, it seems
[21:36:53] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Do you guys wonder why your IRC server needs to be running a world accessible DNS server, FTP server, MySQL instance, PostgreSQL instance, etc?
[21:36:12] <weeds> The problem is that if you offer the population a vote, then they expect action on the vote - No matter how you qualify it.
[21:36:01] <xlefay> ;)
[21:36:00] <Hyperbolebot> Added quote 25
[21:36:00] <xlefay> !grab nobbis
[21:35:55] <nobbis> vote early vote often
[21:35:05] <xlefay> I vote dailybacon and port119.net in advanced, thank you.
[21:34:56] <drussell> Most definitely
[21:34:39] <cmdr_LaminatorX> We need to use a more mature poll solution for the name question, that's for damn sure.
[21:34:09] <weeds> +paulej72: All true and part of why we are here.
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[21:33:08] <paulej72> I would like to point out unile Dice we have actually tied to show you our point of view and why we think the way we do. We have seriously taken into conceration your points and have tried to comment on each one. We are trying to have a conversation not just present you with stuff.
[21:33:05] <xyzzyyxxyx> weeds: all this has happened before and will happen again
[21:32:28] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v FunPika] by BaconTree
[21:32:28] -!- FunPika [FunPika!~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #Soylent
[21:32:08] <weeds> ...purple fingers, voter registration, this isn't a new problem.
[21:31:37] <weeds> If your are going to run the "business" on public opinion, you better have a good way to poll the population.
[21:31:15] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I'm not even upset because I know that first DDoS will happen and you guys will realize really quick that DDoS mitigation is no easy task, and that there's a reason many companies/groups use freenode for their projects
[21:30:45] <xyzzyyxxyx> draw straws
[21:30:30] <nobbis> so what do we use ?
[21:30:05] <drussell> weeds: No, of course not... Exactly...
[21:29:22] <weeds> Doesn't sound like the polls should be used for serious issues at all. Just for fun.
[21:29:20] <drussell> dx3bydt3: I hadn't voted either because I had no real opinion but now see several advantages to having a private server, so I voted now...
[21:29:18] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] It's clear staff will alter poll results to match their bias dx3bydt3, they should not be relied upon at all
[21:28:42] <dx3bydt3> can the polls be closed to ACs on serious issues?
[21:28:11] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: was not a joke, was serious
[21:27:51] <paulej72> "This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane."
[21:27:48] <xyzzyyxxyx> Cyprus: the 2005 Iraqi Parliamentary elections, yes
[21:27:46] Cyprus is now known as Cyprus_afk
[21:27:36] <weeds> (after everyone votes their fingers are marked) +1 Informative
[21:27:34] <paulej72> the polls all say that at the bottom
[21:27:25] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] where they prominently marketed the fact iraq was democratic by showing warn torn citizens showing their ink spotted fingers like they could now make a difference
[21:27:06] <nobbis> are there alternatives ?
[21:27:01] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Cyprus it's a joke about iraqi elections I'd guess?
[21:26:48] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Whether we make IRC changes or not, I'm glad we're digging into the poll's viability as a tool before we use it for something really serious.
[21:26:47] <Cyprus> xyzz: purple fingers?
[21:26:33] <xyzzyyxxyx> any vote not marked by purple fingers is susceptible to rigging
[21:26:21] <nobbis> weeds: agreed this is looking more like N Korea all the time
[21:25:38] <weeds> If polls are susceptible to vote rigging, then they certainly can't be used for determining direction or policy of any issue. (No matter that it's a problematic strategy to begin with.)
[21:25:32] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] client ip
[21:25:28] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] also varnish inserts a x-forwarded-for for the IP
[21:25:01] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Ok varnish would not be involved as this is a POST request
[21:24:57] <mattie_p> just popping to check on things before I bounce
[21:24:52] <dx3bydt3> I didn't have an opinion before seeing the discussion, now I've voted for to keep the IRC of our own.
[21:24:46] <mattie_p> yes, I'm alive, but not for longh
[21:24:38] <cmdr_LaminatorX> 1 vote spread, atm.
[21:24:22] <xyzzyyxxyx> mattie_p speaks!
[21:24:00] <Cyprus> and no im not part of the team
[21:23:58] <mattie_p> poutine, Cyprus is not part of the network team.
[21:23:57] <Cyprus> yes: varnish
[21:23:49] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Cyprus is there a load balancer, proxy, or otherwise between me and the soylentnews webserver?
[21:23:40] -!- lentilmania [lentilmania!~1774cad4@37-825-466-421.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #Soylent
[21:23:18] <xlefay> heh?
[21:23:11] <Cyprus> IPv6, which is not dynamically stable
[21:23:08] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Someone please tel lme Cyprus is not part of the networking/sysadmin team
[21:22:53] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Cyprus, uh, what?
[21:22:42] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Every argument for and against we've been tossing around here is somebosy's get out the vote effort.
[21:22:39] <Cyprus> poutine: IP logs aren't very useful, the server has AAAA records
[21:22:22] <xlefay> Cyprus: haha ;)
[21:22:12] <Cyprus> xlefay: Thanks, I'm going to giggle to myself every time I see that
[21:22:10] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] Care to share server logs, you can replace each IP with a unique identifier that does not convey personal information
[21:22:06] <xyzzyyxxyx> Holds up his sign
[21:21:36] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I see campaigning, right here in this chat session, but not vote rigging.
[21:21:30] <Hyperbolebot> [poutine] I do not normally dish out personal attacks, but you have to be literally developmentally challenged to think that vote rigging did not occur
[21:21:24] <xlefay> And you poutine, are too, if you think it didn't happen in the first place.
[21:21:07] * Cyprus laughs
[21:20:57] <Hyperbolebot> done - nick
[21:20:57] Hedonismbot is now known as Hyperbolebot
[21:20:53] <Hedonismbot> changing nick to Hyperbolebot
[21:20:53] <xlefay> !nick Hyperbolebot
[21:20:53] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] paulej72, you're retarded if you do not think vote rigging just happened
[21:20:43] <weeds> nobbis: I quoted you once already :)
[21:20:43] -!- FatPhil [FatPhil!~pcarmody@Soylent/Staff/Developer/FatPhil] has parted #Soylent
[21:20:37] <FatPhil> cheerio dooods, some of us have a life
[21:20:36] <paulej72> poutine you have no evidence that there was ballot stuffing
[21:20:26] <nobbis> weeds: yes, i want the vote to be respected
[21:20:23] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] that was supposed to be voted on as well
[21:20:14] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Just like when Barrabas decided on soylentnews.org
[21:20:12] <FatPhil> I vote for bot's nick to be changed to bile_conduit
[21:20:08] <nobbis> yes
[21:20:08] <drussell> weeds: Oh, I fully understand and agree that the direction should be chosen by the community. Using slashpolls as binding steering mechanisms is guaranteed to fail, though
[21:20:07] <cmdr_LaminatorX> That is also an accusation that is both serious and unfounded.
[21:20:04] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] weeds it should be expected to be equally corrupt
[21:19:47] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] except freenode won community favor, up until SN staff decided to throw off the results
[21:19:46] <weeds> nobbiss: Not to be too snotty... When we vote on a name will the vote matter?
[21:19:36] <xlefay> right Hedonismbot?
[21:19:35] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Pleas dial it back from that level of name calling, poutine.
[21:19:26] <Hedonismbot> done - nick
[21:19:23] <paulej72> poutine you seem to be the same
[21:19:22] <Hedonismbot> changing nick to Hyperbolebot
[21:19:22] <xlefay> !nick Hyperbolebot
[21:19:14] <Cyprus> I vote to change Hedonismbot's name to Hyperbolebot to improve accuracy
[21:18:50] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] you're that kid that nobody likes playing games with because they'd make up their own rules, and change them to fit their favor
[21:18:50] <FatPhil> trololo
[21:18:45] <paulej72> poutine so far the users for and aginst are very similar even if you jsut count who is talking here.
[21:18:21] <weeds> drussell: consider what the voters think and where they are coming from. We have said so much about participation and community run...
[21:18:03] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] That's what this is
[21:17:46] <nobbis> haha
[21:17:32] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Slashdot: You spoke, we listened <- Remember that thread?
[21:17:29] <nobbis> but aren't we here for the listeniong to the community aspect ?
[21:17:11] <FatPhil> View it as a 2 dimensional grid.
[21:17:10] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -310
[21:17:10] <Cyprus> poutine--
[21:17:03] <drussell> poutine: It WAS to get community feedback, and it worked.... I don't see how this in any way, shape or form should be taken as a binding vote of direction... That's just silly IMHO
[21:16:55] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -309
[21:16:55] <dx3bydt3> poutine--
[21:16:49] <nobbis> weeds: indeed
[21:16:42] <xlefay> ... really wonder if poutine has eyes.. I'm agreeing with him on it being twitchy.
[21:16:40] <FatPhil> "I don't care, either work for me" and "I don't care, I don't give a shit about IRC" are both important non-yes/no votes.
[21:16:22] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] sore loser babies
[21:16:21] <weeds> nobbis: and back to a very important point for SoylenNews going forward: "Governing by referendum is always frought with peril..." - drussell
[21:16:13] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] This is how soylentnews staff acts when they lose
[21:16:12] <nobbis> FatPhil: isnt optin 1 not changing anything
[21:15:40] <xlefay> poutine: in all honesty, the entire wording and the entire poll wasn't made as it should've been. The real options were "Yes", "No" .. but, I agree it does seem somewhat twitchy.
[21:15:37] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] If you don't see vote fraud going on rightn ow, you're on crack
[21:15:32] <FatPhil> null hypothesis
[21:15:27] <FatPhil> If the result was pro-SNC but not a clear majority, then we wouldn't change anything.
[21:15:03] <xlefay> .. and now option 1 is #1...
[21:14:51] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I'm also so glad you would have argued the decision if it was PRO-SNIRC
[21:14:40] <xyzzyyxxyx> oh my goodness, I think it really did just let me poll-stuff =/
[21:14:37] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] It's a good thing you guys realized this BEFORE you put up a poll asking for community feedback
[21:14:33] <Cyprus> how does it lock out AC votes?
[21:14:24] <nobbis> weeds: i agreed with you
[21:14:21] <FatPhil> But it did tell me I'd already voted at some point, I'm sure.
[21:14:16] <xlefay> think so yea
[21:14:14] <weeds> nobbis: that goes back to what I said the first time :)
[21:14:11] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Can AC's vote?
[21:14:01] <drussell> The poll system should not be used to make any binding decisions. Period.
[21:13:50] <nobbis> weeds: yes
[21:13:49] <Cyprus> it registered multiple votes
[21:13:46] <xlefay> FatPhil: ... honestly, it's so trivial
[21:13:44] <Cyprus> no, it really doesn't
[21:13:37] <FatPhil> GIven that it tells you "you have already voted", I presume you can't actually get multiple votes.
[21:13:37] <weeds> nobbis: then we have to go the way the poll goes, end of discussion, right?
[21:13:28] <nobbis> well, if there is cheating it does invalidate things somewhat
[21:13:07] <Cyprus> what do we want the poll to show?
[21:13:01] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] right now it is 20:13 GMT
[21:13:00] <Cyprus> I can vote as many times as I want to with the current implementation
[21:12:56] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] xlefay, 21:36 is GMT
[21:12:53] <xlefay> about*
[21:12:52] <nobbis> yes
[21:12:45] <xlefay> approx 24 hours ago? It went up around 3 am my time.. that's 6 hours from now.
[21:12:41] <weeds> nobbis: does a single vote one way make the decision?
[21:12:34] <xlefay> nobbis: only if people haven't voted twice or more.. which is always questionable at slashcode.
[21:12:22] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] it went up approx 24 hours ago
[21:12:12] <cmdr_LaminatorX> It went up "last night" for most of our time zones.
[21:12:07] <xlefay> The wording of the poll is silly. Besides that.. way to much options.
[21:11:56] <nobbis> no all votes are equal
[21:11:20] <weeds> It is certainly reasonable to say the needs of those who will use it most have more weight with a vote so close.
[21:11:04] * xlefay notes the cake is a lie.
[21:10:44] <paulej72> this is from the edit page
[21:10:39] <xlefay> this is all so pointless imo
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[21:10:31] <paulej72> poll was posted for 2014-03-11 21:36:08
[21:10:31] <xlefay> 3 diff.. in the poll atm
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[21:09:37] <dx3bydt3> poll wasn't up yesterday
[21:09:33] <weeds> Actually it has to be creditable
[21:09:31] <cmdr_LaminatorX> That's why I brought it up here in the first place.
[21:09:21] <paulej72> poutine the poll has only been up for a day
[21:09:20] <FatPhil> Can I change my joke vote to a real one?
[21:09:12] <nobbis> this needs to be seen to be credible
[21:09:05] <cmdr_LaminatorX> If it's swinging ecently, it's because we're here on IRC talking about it with the people who most use IRC.
[21:09:04] <xyzzyyxxyx> swiss: the soldering conversation
[21:08:24] <paulej72> poutine I did not vote on this until just a about an hour ago. It is possible that other did not as well
[21:08:23] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] that's BS and you know it
[21:08:22] <janrinok> pou The reason for the upsurge is more likely the time of day
[21:08:19] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] This poll has been up for days, in the last hour, it has had as many votes for staying on soylentirc, as it has up until this point
[21:07:47] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Nobody's making sock puppets, poutine.
[21:07:44] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I'm going to have to call BS on this one
[21:07:40] <nobbis> and if it swaps round do we ignore that result too ?
[21:07:39] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] There's been nearly 70 votes in the last hour on this
[21:07:23] <paulej72> with only af 5% difference in the two front runners, it is not going to be satisticly significat
[21:07:07] <nobbis> it looks like 'the vote didnt go the way we wanted so we'll ignore theresult'
[21:07:03] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I think it's a bit suspect that the trend for the past few days reverses itself within the last few hours when people are talking about deciding based on it
[21:06:48] <Landon> AltSlashDICE2p0: perhaps in a bit of a rube goldberg system
[21:06:35] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I don't think counting it that way is appropriate either.
[21:06:30] <swiss> ?
[21:06:28] <swiss> the one against hax0rz
[21:06:25] <drussell> Why, because the poll showed there isn't a terribly significant leaning either way so we decide to keep the advantages of having our own server?
[21:06:21] <swiss> xyzzyyxxyx: which conversation?
[21:06:15] <FatPhil> OK, they don't want anything, but they've spoken
[21:06:01] <FatPhil> 65% don't want us to change
[21:05:58] <Hedonismbot> karma - weeds: 0
[21:05:58] <xyzzyyxxyx> weeds++
[21:05:33] <weeds> Then you shouldn't ask
[21:05:27] <Hedonismbot> karma - drussell: 1
[21:05:27] <xyzzyyxxyx> drussell++
[21:05:24] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Interestingly, while we have been talking here, the gap has closed to less than 5%.
[21:05:12] <nobbis> drussell: i think we would lose credibility
[21:05:05] <drussell> Nobody said it was a binding vote, FFS... It's a way to get feedback!
[21:04:41] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -308
[21:04:41] <drussell> poutine--
[21:04:37] <drussell> Governing by referendum is always frought with peril... Especially when it's not even a real referendum but a simple poll... I see absolutely no problem with saying "Hey, the vote was close, gave us information, which was the point however, since there are several good reasons to keep our own irc server, no real downsides and no real upsides to going back to freenode, we think we should keep our own server operational"
[21:04:32] <weeds> Haven't you backed yourself into a corner? If you offered the choice to the community, don't you have to take their recommendation to keep credibility?
[21:04:20] <paulej72> weeds no go ahead
[21:04:05] <xyzzyyxxyx> swiss: you made coherent conversation the last time I was on here under a different name
[21:04:00] <weeds> Hello, I've been watching a bit and have a couple of questions. Do you mind?
[21:03:41] <Hedonismbot> [AltSlashDICE2p0] Ladon : thats a client side thing..... you can do that in javascript before the client talks to the server, so thats kinda a bs reason
[21:02:45] <swiss> xyzzyyxxyx: hi?
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[21:02:38] <xyzzyyxxyx> hi swiss
[21:02:30] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -307
[21:02:29] <swiss> poutine--
[21:02:13] <Landon> but, built on IRC, so those with clients can connect that way
[21:01:58] <Landon> yep
[21:01:50] <swiss> sounds more like a shoutbox at that point
[21:01:44] <Landon> maybe not embedded in the page, but easily accessible and no dorking around with nickserv
[21:01:36] <xyzzyyxxyx> nifty
[21:01:30] <Landon> xyzzyyxxyx: something like that
[21:01:21] <xyzzyyxxyx> Landon: so chat could in theory be embedded into the page?
[21:01:19] <Landon> which amounts to >10% of users in this channel, not sure the exact number
[21:00:43] <Landon> AltSlashDICE2p0, our own server does get us that much closer to having SSO, which would be nice with webchat
[21:00:33] <paulej72> cmdr_LaminatorX i am not saying staff annoance should trump the poll, I saying it should be concidered
[20:59:59] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] just the fact the community already spoke in favor of changing
[20:59:50] <Hedonismbot> [AltSlashDICE2p0] because you all cared soooo much when you jumped off freenode?
[20:59:48] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Members not being able to acess, however, is a big deal.
[20:59:38] <Cyprus> Claiming either direction is difficult is pretty disingenuous
[20:59:30] <cmdr_LaminatorX> We really need to know how many people would be shut out if we move to freenode. Staff annoyance is not nothing inconsiderable, but shouldn't outweigh the poll.
[20:59:21] <Cyprus> ^ agree with both
[20:59:10] <Landon> (and no real problem with staying)
[20:59:00] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] there is no real problem with changing
[20:58:55] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] it's not that hard
[20:58:51] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] paulej72, ##soylentnews-editors ##soylentnews-dev, etc
[20:58:46] <xyzzyyxxyx> no control of logs, channels, no centralization of same
[20:58:44] <Landon> we wouldn't get SSO on freenode, however :( that's a bit of a downer
[20:58:35] <paulej72> Yes I know it is similar, but we have customizations here that we as staff use.
[20:57:51] <Landon> paulej72: fwiw there's not a lot of difference, freenode uses the same services
[20:57:33] <paulej72> AAltSlashDICE2p0 I am takling a bout learning the commands to run irc that have been specialized for this site. We would need to relearn that. This is a cost that must be concidered
[20:57:21] <Cyprus> Hmmm, I think he's making me rethink requiring SSO
[20:57:04] <Landon> :) funny
[20:56:24] <Hedonismbot> [AltSlashDICE2p0] paulej72 : I agree, the startup scripts need to change the server address.... its a lot of work, I hear that.
[20:55:58] <xyzzyyxxyx> thus it's blocked due to Puritanism
[20:55:43] <nobbis> simply so that more people could enjoy these arguments
[20:55:35] <Hedonismbot> [AltSlashDICE2p0] There is no Popsikle-Work here
[20:55:26] <paulej72> Popsikle-Work the staff have been working out of channels on irc.soylentnews.org for two weeks now and we have built up comfort using this system.. Changing now would be a significant cost in relearning a different system
[20:55:08] <FatPhil> last place I worked, freenode was whitelisted, everywhere else wasn't!
[20:55:04] <xyzzyyxxyx> I'd wager a great deal of IRC on freenode is naughty-talk ( speculation )
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[20:54:20] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] If freenode is blocked, then they're blocking IRC from their access point, why skirt around the rules simply because they employ a blacklist rather than a whitelist?
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[20:54:13] <Cyprus> I object to bypassing company security policy as a pro =)
[20:53:49] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Freenode is blocked in some community members workplaces, as well as many public wifi spots.
[20:53:39] <FatPhil> and the administrative overhead is tiny
[20:53:39] <Landon> it's not like we're keeping xlefay from doing urgent dev work
[20:53:37] <xyzzyyxxyx> If I am as loud as pouline in saying I'll be blocked, then I jump up and down and scream now.
[20:53:25] <Landon> poutine, the staff administering it wouldn't necessarily be doing anything else
[20:53:24] <FatPhil> it's easier to do things on something you control. that's negative cost.
[20:53:12] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] its free node
[20:53:02] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] harder for some people?
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[20:52:59] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Are we factoring in the staff needed to administer it?
[20:52:45] <FatPhil> what's its marginal cost though?
[20:52:30] <paulej72> poutine no the irc server a on a seperate system
[20:52:27] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] FatPhil, a server with a cost > 0
[20:52:24] <FatPhil> Are you really that stupid?
[20:52:16] <cmdr_LaminatorX> If the poll had an over 50% answer we wouldn't be having this discussion, instead we've got a weak plurality that should be followed in principle, but in practice is going to make things harder for some people, and we're not sure how many.
[20:52:15] <FatPhil> poutine: presently it's not. but have you not noticed _we have a server_.
[20:52:10] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] liability is cost
[20:52:00] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] so one DDoS takes both out?
[20:51:52] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] FatPhil, the ircd is on the same as the webserver? Are you kidding me?
[20:51:46] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] I voted for freenode obviously, but was totally expecting all you guys to vote gainst and the vote to fail
[20:51:40] <paulej72> Popsikle-Work no vote got the majority
[20:51:40] <FatPhil> poutine: we have a server. we need no more servers for ircd
[20:51:39] <Landon> I was interpreting cost of change as "user grumbles" from the however-many on this side
[20:51:27] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] there is a clear answer
[20:51:23] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] yup
[20:51:14] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] ok
[20:51:13] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] yea
[20:51:08] <cmdr_LaminatorX> "
[20:51:06] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] FatPhil, ircds require a server, no ircd, no server needed to run it
[20:51:04] <cmdr_LaminatorX> There is no clear "this is best.
[20:50:41] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] having a poll and then trying to discount it because the results are unfavorable is helpful?
[20:50:22] <FatPhil> Prove "changing saves resources".
[20:50:16] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Hyperbolic insults are not helpful, Popsikle-Work.
[20:50:04] <Cyprus> change is generally lower cost than "Not Invented Here"
[20:50:02] <Landon> change absolutely has cost, but I don't think the cost should be arbitrarily decided by adding answers together
[20:49:59] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] changing saves resources which saves money FatPhil
[20:49:55] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] at least its only a few weeks in
[20:49:44] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] altslashdot, dice version 2.0
[20:49:42] <FatPhil> do you really think change is zero-cost?
[20:49:36] <Landon> and aren't a party that has a horse in the race
[20:49:32] <FatPhil> unless you think change is zero-cost
[20:49:30] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] FatPhil, I'm glad you're not in charge of anything important
[20:49:30] <Landon> that seems a little disingenuous, since the uninterested answers aren't interested either way
[20:49:29] <Cyprus> by that logic you can do the same thing with every combination
[20:49:22] <paulej72> Popsikle-Work we can't be sure of that because there was bias in the wording of the questions themselves.
[20:49:22] <cmdr_LaminatorX> At this point, we probably need to at least move #Soylent to freenode, out of respect for the results and the credibility of the polling process.
[20:49:18] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] lol
[20:49:13] <FatPhil> how else can it be interpreted
[20:49:08] <Cyprus> you can't arbitrarily add up all the choices against another
[20:49:07] <FatPhil> yes
[20:49:04] <Landon> FatPhil: is that counting the "uninterested" answer as "no need to change" ?
[20:48:44] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] fatPhil, are you really this daft, how are you reading it that way?
[20:48:40] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] since its wide open
[20:48:37] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] actually makes it closer to accurate
[20:48:32] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] so having more poll options
[20:48:27] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] and everyone else will do soemthign random
[20:48:22] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] I mean the people who actually care are going to pick yes or no as they stand
[20:48:16] <FatPhil> "there's no need to change" > "please change" - that's what the poll results still say
[20:48:00] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] why?
[20:47:30] <paulej72> a simple yes no
[20:47:07] <paulej72> that is how the poll was worded by the IRC guys when the poropsed it
[20:46:23] <nobbis> paulej72: yes
[20:46:15] <cmdr_LaminatorX> The slashdot silly poll tradidion is fun, but it was a mistake to let it bleed into a serious discussion.
[20:46:07] <paulej72> the poll should have been a simple yes no vote
[20:45:58] <Hedonismbot> karma - pauliej72: 2
[20:45:58] <xyzzyyxxyx> pauliej72++
[20:45:32] <paulej72> No disrepect to the editors
[20:45:29] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] "Cell phones, who uses those?"
[20:45:23] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Landon they did it because slashdot had this stupid tradition of adding ridculous responses to it
[20:45:18] <paulej72> Landon no, I think this was editorial drift
[20:45:11] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] doesnt seem invalid to me
[20:44:48] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] http://puu.sh
[20:44:36] <Landon> are polls required to have 8 answers?
[20:44:33] <nobbis> true it was badly worded
[20:44:32] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I think that the poll was ill conceived and isn't that meaningful in a statistical sense, but that we also probably need to act on it's results as a matter of credability.
[20:44:31] <Hedonismbot> karma - pauliej72: 1
[20:44:31] <xyzzyyxxyx> pauliej72++
[20:44:21] <xyzzyyxxyx> Next, on A&E, Poutine's Tough Love Boot Camp
[20:44:14] <paulej72> Popsikle-Work I think the results of the poll are a bit ambiguous due to poor working an no option with the majority
[20:43:59] <Landon> see: freenode->SNirc split
[20:43:50] <Landon> but we already know that I don't really care about community disruption :)
[20:43:35] <Landon> point: as previous IRC overlord, I'm ok with doing what the poll wants
[20:43:23] <nobbis> thats is how t will look
[20:43:21] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] no better
[20:43:19] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] no better than dice
[20:43:05] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] meh
[20:42:54] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Popsikle-Work, Basically, the poll did not go the way they expected, so they're throwing out the results
[20:42:36] <dx3bydt3> if he was gone wouldn't you miss typing poutine-- ?
[20:42:29] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] so the gist of the last 60 minutes is the poll does not matter because it does not want what the created wants?
[20:42:04] <nobbis> agreed
[20:41:57] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I don't think it's appropriate to tell him to leave. While I don't care for his tone either, he is genuine in his wish to be helpful.
[20:41:46] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] You're not going to attract people who left slashdot due to DICE by acting worse than DICE
[20:41:36] <Hedonismbot> uppers of poutine are: andrew: 5, MrBluze_: 1, TheMightyBuzzard: 1, robinld: 1, NCommander: 1, drgibbon: 1, kobach: 1, xlefay: 1
[20:41:36] <FatPhil> !karma-whoup poutine
[20:41:21] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I am going to laugh when whoever spent >$2k on SN has it fail because they pissed off the community with this stupid BS
[20:41:18] <Hedonismbot> -2, xyzzyyxxyx: -2, dx3bydt3: -2, drgibbon: -2, int: -1, martyb: -1, KhyberLaptop: -1, xyzzyyzzyx: -1, ragequit: -1, hax0rz: -1, MrBluze_: -1, Konomi: -1, mrgirlpluggedout: -1, FuckBeta: -1
[20:41:18] <Landon> !more
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[20:40:51] <Landon> I guess I've never down'd poutine
[20:40:45] <Landon> huh
[20:40:34] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -306
[20:40:34] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:40:34] <Hedonismbot> downers of poutine are: kobach: -108, crutchy: -27, xlefay: -22, FoobarBazbot_: -17, FatPhil: -13, stderr: -13, andrew: -12, Khyber: -11, mattie_p: -11, mrcoolbp: -10, FoobarBazbot: -9, swiss: -7, drcoolbp: -7, pbnjoe: -6, paulej72: -4, stdhell: -4, amblivious: -3, swisskid: -3, CHALLNGEACCPTD: -2, FunPika: -2, melikamp: -2, MrBluze: -2, mattiep: -2, arti: -2, Barrabas: - 1 more
[20:40:34] <FoobarBazbot> !karma-whodown poutine
[20:40:24] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: I think your negative karma speaks loudly enough for anyone
[20:40:23] <FatPhil> I speak for everyone who's poutine--'ed, I'm sure
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[20:40:10] <paulej72> do you poutine
[20:39:55] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Do you speak for all of soylentnews?
[20:39:52] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: no risk no reward no freedom
[20:39:41] <FatPhil> poutine: please leave. we'd rather you weren't here either
[20:38:38] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I'd rather not be somewhere where there's a single point of failure, netsplits might be annoying, but you know what's worse than losing 10 people from a temp netsplit? not being able to connect at all
[20:38:17] <Landon> right now the chance of that is significantly less than freenode having netsplits
[20:37:44] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] you will get packeted, it's a fact of life of IRC
[20:37:34] <FatPhil> (
[20:37:33] <FatPhil> I even split from my own idlerpg sometimes :-
[20:37:29] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] It's trivial to DDoS something, I've been DDoSed for comments I've made all the way back to 1998
[20:37:12] <FatPhil> my freaking IRCnet connections split left right and centre every day
[20:36:25] <Landon> paulej72: I agree, freenode has had constant netsplittery, which almost outweighs the "Oh no, SN IRC is being ddosed and is down? Let's go back to ##AltSlashdot temporarily"
[20:36:14] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] small target? DALnet still gets DDoSed, they have less than 10k users now. Also when you do get DDoSed, you go down, you don't come back up
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[20:35:38] <paulej72> that is just some of the reasons. There is aslo the small target fro DDOS attacks, less chance of netsplits
[20:35:15] * xyzzyyxxyx is exhausted at that difficult task
[20:35:02] <FoobarBazbot> poutine: http://logs.sylnt.us
[20:35:00] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] You could code your own OS from scratch, it won't have the design decisions everything else has
[20:34:52] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: http://logs.sylnt.us
[20:34:44] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Ok that's a stupid reason, ability to have control != need to have control
[20:34:32] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Is that it?
[20:34:31] <paulej72> poutine by running our own network we controll the access, the cloack, the channels. we are not beholden to anther group to do it
[20:34:30] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] <SoylentBender> [paulej72] poutine by running our own network we controll the access, the cloack, the channels. we are not beholden to anther group to do it
[20:34:06] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] can you repeat it? I'm sure it's only 1 line
[20:34:01] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] It's nearly impossible for me to find it because of this stupid relay bot
[20:33:53] <FatPhil> we did, you just burried your head in the sand and want "la la la I can't hear you"
[20:33:33] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] but everyone is for it
[20:33:32] <paulej72> poutine I have stated some reasons why we should have our own network. Read you backlog
[20:33:22] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] amazing how nobody can articulate the need for an IRC network
[20:32:03] * xyzzyyxxyx notes trolls are generally correct but socially inept in presenting the arguement
[20:32:02] <FatPhil> = satire pollution
[20:31:24] <Hedonismbot> karma - fatphil: 23
[20:31:24] <xyzzyyxxyx> FatPhil++
[20:31:11] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] really simple
[20:31:07] <FatPhil> Anyone want an anagram? Poutine's a troll = Total repulsion
[20:31:07] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Ok one of you people, just _tell_ me why soylentnews needs an irc network
[20:30:28] <paulej72> poutine what about the bias in the wording of the questions.
[20:30:22] <FatPhil> poutine. 7 billion votes were cast. Your move
[20:30:21] <nobbis> don't care <> don't move
[20:29:46] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] but freenode has almost double the amount of votes as soylent
[20:29:45] <FoobarBazbot> FatPhil: poutine would recommend criticizing us all for being so apathetic. ~
[20:29:29] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I'd evaluate sample size, margin of error, and other factors
[20:29:10] <FatPhil> poutine: Imagine the results being 4% pro-Soylent, 5% pro-freenode, and 91% "don't care". What would you recommend the course of action being?
[20:28:59] <FoobarBazbot> poutine: just as if everyone said "freenode is best", there'd also be no argument.
[20:28:14] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: I can agree on that at least
[20:28:11] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I bet if everyone said "SoylentNews IRC is best", there'd be no argument over polling methods
[20:28:02] <nobbis> ^^
[20:27:58] <cmdr_LaminatorX> ^^^
[20:27:55] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] looks really bad when after you don't get the result you wanted, you discredit your own means for gathering information
[20:27:37] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] These are things you should think about BEFORE running a poll and asking for community feedback xyzzyyxxyx
[20:27:15] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] is what the poll says
[20:27:14] <xyzzyyxxyx> regarding voting in general, IMHO most pick what they know, whether by name or phrase, thus multiple Bush's & Clinton's -_-
[20:27:11] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] "freenode" > "Soylentnews's dumb irc network"
[20:26:52] <FatPhil> that's what the poll says
[20:26:47] <FatPhil> "there's no need to change" > "please change"
[20:26:25] <nobbis> i'm not bothered either way, i'm more concerned about ignoring the poll result
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[20:25:45] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] nobbis why does SN need its own IRC network?
[20:25:25] <nobbis> according to the community
[20:25:01] <nobbis> moving to freenode wins the day
[20:23:51] <xyzzyyxxyx> Cyprus: Godwin always wins the day
[20:23:20] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] You guys are incompetent, how difficult is it to have a search engine? Doesn't anyone know how to SolrCloud w/ Apache ZooKeeper to index and search your documents bro?
[20:22:44] <xyzzyyxxyx> so to myself it is now a null issue / question
[20:22:16] <FoobarBazbot> Though I guess if we (eventually) have our own search engine running, that handles that, but for now the ability to google site:irc.sylnt.us foobar seems ok
[20:22:13] <xyzzyyxxyx> FoobarBazbot: I actually went by another name I am well-known by, but then realized the logs might be Googleable, so I made a change, since I just don't like such in general
[20:21:53] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -305
[20:21:49] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:21:49] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -304
[20:21:49] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:21:45] <FatPhil> poutine: you're the one who is dumb - have you not noticed that you're discussing it already, and yet are not on our network
[20:21:45] <Cyprus> Do X or you're DICE
[20:21:35] <Cyprus> and there's the Godwin of slashcott
[20:21:17] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] ignore that and you're no better than DICE
[20:21:16] * FoobarBazbot would like to search the logs sometimes.
[20:21:05] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] freenode won
[20:21:03] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] the community has spoken
[20:20:52] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] that's dumb, I'm not joining your stupid network to discuss moving OFF the network
[20:20:52] <FatPhil> Me, I think this is a total bikeshed issue.
[20:20:50] <FoobarBazbot> xyzzyyxxyx: is that desirable?
[20:20:35] <FatPhil> there's a poll for discussion on the subject now, and an IRC channel for discussion on the subject at any later point
[20:20:17] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] how about get rid of the useless 'FAQ' link and make it 'IRC' and lead them to freenode
[20:20:16] <xyzzyyxxyx> secondarily are the logs cloaked in norobots.txt ?
[20:20:13] <janrinok> poutine: so from your threat your only aim is to ensure that SN doesn't succeed, so that you can say "I told you all so"?
[20:19:56] <FoobarBazbot> (That said, I thing there's a community feeling that we're having too much about ourselves on the front page, so maybe a front-page post isn't the best way to handle that communication... not sure.)
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[20:19:55] <paulej72> it has sasl
[20:19:46] <Ingar> does SN IRC have SSL ?
[20:19:34] <nobbis> poutine has a point
[20:19:22] <FatPhil> dunno karmastomp
[20:19:11] <xyzzyyxxyx> Phil used KarmaStomp
[20:19:04] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] that's just what slashdot did when we said no to beta
[20:18:56] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Remember when Barrabas said he'd make $10 million USD from SN, and I kept parading that fact? I will do the same if you guys overrule community feedback that you asked for
[20:18:53] <kobach> dumb fucking 12 year old
[20:18:43] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -303
[20:18:43] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:18:41] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -302
[20:18:41] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:18:30] <kobach> shut up poutine lol
[20:18:27] <FatPhil> ability to patch chghost handlign - 4 benefits
[20:18:26] <kobach> nobody gives 2 fucks about the size of the network
[20:18:17] <FoobarBazbot> If the poll shows there is no consensus (as I believe this one does), I think the community will be receptive to an approach of communicating what the alternatives are, what the advantages/disadvantages will be, and giving space for discussion, then repolloing later.
[20:18:16] <nobbis> i voted against Freenode, but i'm worried how this will be seen
[20:18:16] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] 100k people on freenode kobach
[20:18:16] <kobach> and all the staff are here also
[20:18:13] <FatPhil> cloak - 3 benefits
[20:18:11] <kobach> interesting
[20:18:11] * xyzzyyxxyx notes that the poutine's of the world often contain kernels of truth wrapped in bloodshed
[20:18:09] <kobach> 97 people here
[20:18:08] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] that is hardly a scientific method for determining acceptance xyzzyyyxxyx
[20:18:07] <kobach> hmm 27 people on freenode
[20:18:01] <FatPhil> poutine: we can administer the server ourselves. we can be ircops. 2 concrete benefits.
[20:17:55] <paulej72> poutine by running our own network we controll the access, the cloack, the channels. we are not beholden to anther group to do it
[20:17:52] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] no it doesn't
[20:17:27] <xyzzyyxxyx> that tells you your rate of loss
[20:17:27] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] knowing how prone to DDoS attacks they are, and the fact that there's many that already exist, with nearly 100k users and backup infrastructure that makes SN look like a toy
[20:17:25] <cmdr_LaminatorX> It's easy to dismiss poutine because of his combattively pessemistic style, which I wish he would curb, but he's also right more often than he's wrong.
[20:17:16] <xyzzyyxxyx> so switch for 24-48hrs to freenode and check the population drop or rise
[20:17:08] <paulej72> cmdr_LaminatorX we relly should have a run off vote with just two questions: yes no. No fancy wording that could bias the vote
[20:17:01] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Nobody has yet to offer an explanation of what benefit SN has by running its own IRC network
[20:16:33] <FoobarBazbot> nobbis: it depends how it's handled, of course, and you're correct that that's a perception we need to avoid. but I don't think it necessarily will look like a fix to not immediately bow to the plurality. I think the community understands that polls are a tool for showing that we have a consensus.
[20:16:29] <kobach> paulej72: its almost as fun as eating bacon isnt it?
[20:16:14] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] hardly "substantial changes"
[20:16:12] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Poutine makes a good point about what message overruling the leading result would send though. I think we really need to get a handle on how many would be negatively affected by switching to freenode though. If it is a large number, that might weigh against the plurality result. Hard to say.
[20:16:05] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] https://github.com <- This is what has been done in the past fortnight
[20:16:05] <paulej72> FatPhil I know that I just fell like feeding the troll today. I am rather generous :)
[20:16:04] <xyzzyyxxyx> there will always be poutine's, seeding doubt with the populace
[20:15:56] <kobach> what a shitty world you live in
[20:15:45] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] 9 days is an eternity in the development world
[20:15:36] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] last commit was over 9 days ago paulej72
[20:15:36] <xyzzyyxxyx> ^
[20:15:30] <FatPhil> we do not need to justify ourselved to poutine. He's trolling us.
[20:15:05] <paulej72> so we are not commiting willy nilly poutine. My commits that are in the queue have some very sbstantial UI changes that need to be singed off by more than Just myself or Ncommander
[20:14:05] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I know how to use github tyvm
[20:13:58] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] and tell me he's still updating it
[20:13:54] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] paulej72, yeah, click "commits"
[20:13:44] <paulej72> poutine the github repo is at https://github.com and Ncommander is updating it
[20:13:13] <Cyprus> For todays incoherent rant, brought to you by....
[20:13:09] <FatPhil> fkn dipshit
[20:13:05] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -301
[20:13:05] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine--
[20:13:01] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -300
[20:13:01] <kobach> poutine--
[20:13:00] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -299
[20:12:57] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -298
[20:12:57] <dx3bydt3> poutine--
[20:12:56] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:12:56] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -297
[20:12:56] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:12:52] <kobach> busy not watching you babble on freenode
[20:12:51] <FatPhil> OMG, you mean while he's on holiday he's not working? What a baaaastard
[20:12:34] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] where is the site's developer(s)?
[20:12:26] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] any more
[20:12:24] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] afaik, NCommander isn't even committing to the github repo anywhere
[20:12:06] <FatPhil> and you must remember, everyone who voted for IRPG, me, my g/f, my mum, my sister, and my dog, all voted for a SN network too!
[20:12:02] <nobbis> the poll should have made it clear, i dont like the decision but this will look like a fix
[20:11:48] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] keep ignoring your community, this is why SN failed version 1.0 (Barabbas/NCommander)
[20:11:25] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: are all voters chat users? or do they just see a shiny identifiable name they know and say 'looks good, I know that thing'
[20:11:21] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -296
[20:11:21] <FatPhil> poutine--
[20:10:38] <cmdr_LaminatorX> The word you're looking for is "plurality," poutine. Which is not to be ignored, but represents less of a mandate than a majority would.
[20:09:42] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] ignore it as you see fit, but those are the facts
[20:09:29] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] the majority of voters agree that soylentnews has NO business/benefit getting into the IRC network game, and wants to use a widely available, widely used network (~100k users versus SN's ~100)
[20:08:37] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] 2 option
[20:08:34] <paulej72> call it a run off vote
[20:08:30] <Cyprus> I mean it's irc, it's not that hard to change later if there are issues
[20:08:17] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] you guys are retarded
[20:08:13] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] in a 2 variable system, yes, majority is 50%
[20:08:11] -!- Tachyon [Tachyon!~Tachyon@xuco.me] has joined #Soylent
[20:08:11] <nobbis> it will look bad
[20:07:51] <nobbis> FoobarBazbot: ok but the 35% is winning
[20:07:51] <paulej72> We need another pool with a simple yes no option no clever wording.
[20:07:49] <FoobarBazbot> We don't have that.
[20:07:47] <dx3bydt3> 64% don't wish to use freenode
[20:07:43] <FoobarBazbot> Majority = over 50%
[20:07:41] <Cyprus> Alternately, just let the sysadmins decide as professionals what they deem is the best path forward for the organization
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[20:07:28] <FoobarBazbot> nobbis: do you fail at math, or do you not understand what "majority" means?
[20:07:23] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] It shows majority opinion
[20:07:04] <FoobarBazbot> But when the poll _doesn't_ show a real consensus, there's a very good argument for _not_ simply following the plurality.
[20:06:55] <nobbis> i dont agree with the decision, but there is a majority, to take the 21% option is wrong
[20:06:39] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -295
[20:06:39] <kobach> poutine--
[20:06:36] -!- DNied [DNied!~zvz@3-930-986-569.v7.ngi.it] has parted #Soylent
[20:06:31] <xyzzyyxxyx> Someone took poutine's red stapler?
[20:06:25] <kobach> poutine = jump to conclusions mat
[20:06:18] <FoobarBazbot> poutine: I'm sure you know this, but _if_ the poll had come back 90%=freenode, 5%=separate, and the rest smattered amongst the don't care options, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
[20:06:18] <paulej72> poutine I never said to throw out the poll, I suggest redoing it with out the biased wording of the questions.
[20:05:49] <Cyprus> This makes me think of that "jump to conclusions" mat from Office Space
[20:05:47] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] community input = community decision
[20:05:31] <xyzzyyxxyx> input < > decision
[20:05:23] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] and why this site is going to fail
[20:05:18] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] that's retarded
[20:05:14] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Why ask soylentnews if you're just going to throw away their decision?
[20:04:52] <FoobarBazbot> So people who prefer freenode, but are willing to connect to a separate net, are better off hanging here where most users are.
[20:04:51] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] conversations of a busy channel exceed sendq for a single client
[20:04:46] <paulej72> The questions asked in a poll will have an effect on the outcome. We may have a severe bias built into our questions.
[20:04:40] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] we're all limited by sendq
[20:04:33] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] there's a limit to relay bots also
[20:04:08] <FoobarBazbot> xyzzyyxxyx: well, as to participation, /me aren't echoed across, nick colorization only works in the local channel, etc.
[20:03:42] <nobbis> ^
[20:03:40] -!- Tachyon__ [Tachyon__!~Tachyon@xuco.me] has joined #Soylent
[20:03:33] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: being inclusive, however, is
[20:03:15] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] being blocked is not a SN problem
[20:03:05] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] If you consider it a non-important group of people to ask, why did you ask it at all? You're just finding ways to dismiss people clearly being against the idea of soylent being spread out across protocols
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[20:02:59] <xyzzyyxxyx> so you can't answer 'who would be blocked' until the default is freenode
[20:02:21] <xyzzyyxxyx> it's funny, the participation incoming from freenode is much, much less than those originating natively on sylnt.us - which IMHO is not an immaterial statistic
[20:02:19] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] 35% is not a win in an 8 answer poll, with the closest with only ~1/2 the amount of votes?
[20:01:58] <cmdr_LaminatorX> It would be good to know just how many people would be subject to blockage.
[20:01:14] <cmdr_LaminatorX> If 35% can be considered a "win."
[20:00:53] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v FoobarBazbot_] by BaconTree
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[20:00:41] <dx3bydt3> will that still work on freenode?
[20:00:38] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - Candy Crush Proved to be NP-Hard - http://sylnt.us - so-my-childhood-wasn't-wasted
[20:00:32] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -294
[20:00:31] <dx3bydt3> poutine--
[20:00:24] <nobbis> but i agree that freenode is winning so...
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[19:59:30] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] are you guys going to ignore that?
[19:59:19] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] freenode won
[19:59:16] <nobbis> it isnt a problem if we stay on here
[19:59:13] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] and the community spoke
[19:59:05] <xyzzyyxxyx> SN made it a community question
[19:58:33] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] why is that a SN problem?
[19:58:32] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: I am a sysadmin, you insensitive clod
[19:58:29] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] It's their business to do so...
[19:58:17] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine: some places paint with a broad brush
[19:58:06] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I'm sure your sysadmins like the fact that you're exploiting that they use a blacklist rather than a whitelist
[19:57:44] _dx3bydt3 is now known as dx3bydt3
[19:57:20] <xyzzyyxxyx> welcome, 6666, the Sign of the...Beast
[19:57:16] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] it's not a real problem
[19:57:12] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] If your work actively blocks your IRC connections, you should not be IRCing at work...
[19:57:02] -!- dx3bydt3 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[19:56:41] <xyzzyyxxyx> good riddance, 6647, you sucked udders anyway
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[19:55:55] * xyzzyyxxyx nods
[19:55:48] <Cyprus> hence my not really caring
[19:55:41] <Cyprus> i mean really its not a huge deal either way
[19:55:12] <xyzzyyxxyx> soy site?
[19:54:21] <Cyprus> that said, if the site is up, its much easier to redirect a broken irc temporarily
[19:53:48] <xyzzyyxxyx> Cyprus: non-religious Amen to that
[19:53:18] <Cyprus> never underestimate the benifits of blaming external services for issues =)
[19:52:58] <xyzzyyxxyx> pro, if it breaks, you sit on your hands
[19:52:30] <xyzzyyxxyx> nobbis: pro, assumedly less possible downtime con, its a bigger target to 'take down' con, if it breaks, you sit on your hands
[19:52:10] <FatPhil> IRC location = bikeshed colour
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[19:50:48] <Cyprus> lol
[19:50:48] <nobbis> what are the advantages to moving back ?
[19:50:30] <xyzzyyxxyx> ;)
[19:50:14] <xyzzyyxxyx> Cyprus: tell that to the Irish RE: freedom
[19:50:00] <Cyprus> I mean personally I don't really care either way
[19:49:39] <kobach> _dx3bydt3: thats always been my opinion
[19:49:30] <Cyprus> is intertia a good reason to maintain an island service of something publically provided and the administrative overhead that entails?
[19:49:22] <kobach> i dont think they have real forecasters down there, its just computer generated probably
[19:49:20] <_dx3bydt3> from the poll results page "This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane."
[19:49:07] <kobach> lol
[19:48:36] <drussell> I also love that the low is higher than the current temperature :)
[19:48:18] <xyzzyyxxyx> Don't Care / don't use is a vote to not change, in some respects
[19:47:55] <drussell> That's too cold! Brrrrr....
[19:47:24] <kobach> weather request, Vostok, Antarctica (78.4°S/106.9°E), Updated: 12:00 AM VOST (March 13, 2014), Conditions: Fog, Temperature: -85°F (-65°C), High/Low: -65/-80°F (-53.9/-62.2°C), Humidity: 30%, Dew Point: -93°F (-69.4°C), Wind: West at 12 MPH (18 KPH)
[19:46:12] <cmdr_LaminatorX> I'm somewhat on the fence. If we had a solid majority, I'd say pull the plug, but I question shutting some people out of access over a plurality whose margin is fewer votes than the "Don't Care" option.
[19:45:51] <xyzzyyxxyx> if you WANT a barrier to entry, then that's OK too I guess. Food for geeks, etc.
[19:45:08] <Cyprus> I haven't logged in to IRC since the days of UUCP except for niche uses like this or guild chat of some kind
[19:45:06] <xyzzyyxxyx> any schmuck can be a SoyCow (sorry SoyCows) if they can click 'OK'
[19:43:58] <Cyprus> It's IRC, the barrier is already high
[19:43:42] <xyzzyyxxyx> +barrier to entry
[19:43:28] <xyzzyyxxyx> if the barrier is too high, the consumer won't hurdle
[19:43:22] <kobach> :)
[19:43:12] <kobach> and theres _NSAKEY's input for the next week and a half
[19:43:10] <Cyprus> for reference, this connection is via SSH tunnel =)
[19:42:48] <_NSAKEY> Cyprus: You could use IRC from a cheap VPS, assuming your workplace doesn't block SSH traffic.
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[19:42:36] <Cyprus> web chat clients do exist for that
[19:42:33] <nobbis> well there is a solution
[19:42:12] <xyzzyyxxyx> Starbucks, internet cafe
[19:42:06] <Cyprus> perhaps you're looking for a technical solution to a non technical problem
[19:42:00] <xyzzyyxxyx> ^ or the school library
[19:41:46] <nobbis> and what about people that can't access it from work ?
[19:41:29] * Cyprus chuckles
[19:41:28] <xyzzyyxxyx> Colon Trouble
[19:41:23] <robind> guess it has to be on a line by itself
[19:41:17] <robind> aw why did nothing happen
[19:41:04] <robind> but just for fun: poutine--
[19:40:41] * Cyprus agrees
[19:40:32] <robind> yeah SSO seems pointless
[19:40:29] <Cyprus> poutine: Tell us how you really feel
[19:40:20] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -293
[19:40:20] <xyzzyyxxyx> poutine--
[19:40:08] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] not for these stupid half baked ideas about single sign on that nobody will use/care about
[19:39:52] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] The majority has spoken for freenode
[19:38:48] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -292
[19:38:48] <kobach> poutine--
[19:38:46] <Hedonismbot> karma - bacon: 161
[19:38:46] <kobach> bacon++
[19:38:44] <kobach> in other news,
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[19:35:52] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[19:35:38] <xyzzyyxxyx> forgive my lack of DNS pointing-research
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[19:34:58] <xyzzyyxxyx> freenode is always a failover?
[19:31:16] <Cyprus> The better question is, if the site is down due to packety death prior to CDNification, do we want IRC to fate share?
[19:28:30] -!- SoyCow928 [SoyCow928!~4c76b3cf@t-59-991-957-035.hsd4.ma.comcast.net] has joined #Soylent
[19:27:54] paulej72_AFK is now known as paulej72
[19:26:24] <xyzzyyxxyx> "Tyranny of the Plurality" :P
[19:26:13] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] also, why is there no ops listed on the team page? http://wiki.soylentnews.org is that combined with dev?
[19:24:43] xyzzyyzzyx_afk is now known as xyzzyyxxyx
[19:23:18] -!- FrogBlast_Away has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[19:22:59] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] and if they are fixing that, what arent they doing
[19:22:45] <Hedonismbot> [Popsikle-Work] the real question regarding support of the irc server is at 4am if it goes down does someone want to be woekn up or poked to fix it?
[19:07:21] <cmdr_LaminatorX> If "use Freenode" nets a plurality, yet not a majority, we'll have to weigh that carefully.
[19:07:03] xyzzyyzzyx is now known as xyzzyyzzyx_afk
[19:06:23] <kobach> well theres your argument right there
[19:06:07] * xyzzyyzzyx begs against all hope that things are kept independent since freenode is blocked in many work and public access firewall policies
[19:05:26] -!- harmless has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
[19:05:24] <_dx3bydt3> I can't imagine it puts any significant strain on the servers as is, aside from integration is there much effort required in maintaining an IRC server?
[19:00:22] <cmdr_LaminatorX> There has been talk of integrating signons with the main site if we keep hosting ourselves, but there's something to be said for focussing our efforts elsewhere too.
[18:58:43] <_dx3bydt3> I wonder what the channel operators prefer, as a user I don't see much difference one way or the other.
[18:55:16] <cmdr_LaminatorX> In casy anyone hasn't noticed, the current poll topic is the continuance of the SN-hosted IRC services, vs just using Freenode. I thought I'd give it a shoutout here, since the folks on IRC are the ones most likely to care one way or the other. http://soylentnews.org
[18:47:38] -!- drussell [drussell!~drussell@205.233.pt.umv] has joined #Soylent
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[18:38:33] <Hedonismbot> The current maximum UID is 3801, owned by hochl
[18:38:33] <xyzzyyzzyx> !current-uid
[18:35:40] <Hedonismbot> karma - poutine: -291
[18:35:40] <xyzzyyzzyx> poutine--
[18:34:31] -!- drussell_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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[18:24:16] <cmdr_LaminatorX> Prospectacle?
[18:23:53] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] prospectacle
[18:23:48] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] so prospectable bought the site eh
[18:23:21] LaminatorX is now known as cmdr_LaminatorX
[18:22:45] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o LaminatorX] by BaconTree
[18:22:45] <LaminatorX> .op
[18:22:20] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] https://twitter.com
[18:22:08] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] but yes, everyone is experiencing issues
[18:21:59] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] fmcd, check twitter
[18:21:22] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - Learn Physics for Free at WSU - http://sylnt.us - yer-always-nede-educayshun
[18:21:18] * xyzzyyzzyx finally submitted something
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[18:10:09] <LaminatorX> Yo.
[18:07:44] <kobach> fmcd: no
[18:07:36] <kobach> wb LaminatorX
[18:07:21] -!- GungnirSniper has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:04:49] <Hedonismbot> [fmcd] is search broken on youtube?
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[18:04:33] LaminatorX|afk is now known as LaminatorX
[18:03:19] <kobach> test
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[17:51:36] <Hedonismbot> The current maximum UID is 3799, owned by xyzzyyzzyx
[17:51:36] <mattie_p> !current-uid
[17:51:30] <mattie_p> excellent
[17:49:52] <xyzzyyzzyx> there
[17:49:48] xyzzy is now known as xyzzyyzzyx
[17:47:45] <xyzzy> yes, I shall
[17:47:38] <mattie_p> just register again, then
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[17:47:28] <mattie_p> ahh, ok
[17:47:24] <xyzzy> no mine was p_____@gmail
[17:47:06] <mattie_p> I mean, that's not your exact email address just c____@S____-M____.org
[17:47:02] <xyzzy> thanks for checking
[17:46:37] <xyzzy> oops no, that means I'm too late for that nick
[17:46:36] <kobach> brb
[17:46:12] <mattie_p> your email addres in the form of c@sm.org?
[17:45:26] <xyzzy> k thx
[17:45:19] <mattie_p> let me check
[17:45:04] <xyzzy> mattie_p I seem to have null registered as ID 3157 but got no email :/ it threw an error ( which I didn't quite grasp was an error til I cleared it )
[17:43:30] <gishzida> Chicken Pot Pie... from Colorado
[17:43:14] <nobbis> he he he
[17:42:55] <xyzzy> nobbis: you cannibal
[17:41:45] <nobbis> mmm... Soylent pie
[17:41:01] <Hedonismbot> Suggestion sent!
[17:40:59] <mattie_p> !suggestion change site logo on Friday 3/14 in celebration of pi day.
[17:40:45] <xyzzy> drat / ok
[17:40:38] <mattie_p> xyzzy yup, known
[17:40:27] <xyzzy> 'check availability' on create account at http://soylentnews.org is not working. known issue?
[17:40:23] <mattie_p> SoylentNews is 3.14 people?
[17:40:01] <kobach> ^
[17:39:55] <GungnirSniper> We should do something on the site for Pi day. Change the logo for the day, a la Google?
[17:39:46] <kobach> lol
[17:39:41] <kobach> brb, business scheme w/ cannabacon
[17:39:14] <mattie_p> koback I haven't seen that marketed, mostly just brownies or such
[17:39:13] <kobach> do it
[17:39:01] <mattie_p> friday is 3/14, aka pi day. Maybe I'll celebrate by inventing bacon pie
[17:38:56] <kobach> do they have cannabacon in CO yet
[17:38:40] <mattie_p> never had either, but the slice seemed to indicate pie to me
[17:38:36] <kobach> cannabacon
[17:38:24] <Hedonismbot> karma - bacon: 160
[17:38:24] <mattie_p> bacon++ #it goes in and with everything
[17:38:15] <kobach> never had
[17:38:07] <kobach> mmmm
[17:37:59] * mattie_p hands kobach a slice of bacon pie
[17:37:22] * kobach hands mattie_p a slice of bacon
[17:37:14] <mattie_p> since they support us as well
[17:37:13] <kobach> its here
[17:37:06] <Hedonismbot> karma - bacon: 159
[17:37:06] <kobach> bacon++
[17:37:02] <mattie_p> include link to http://avantslash.org
[17:36:55] <xyzzy> sure!
[17:36:39] <mattie_p> I frankly don't have the time to do so.
[17:36:29] <mattie_p> xyzzy that could actually make an interesting article/story. Do you want to submit as the finder?
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[17:34:57] <gishzida> well it was so quiet... I guess we have reduced our drama quotient
[17:34:02] <mattie_p> nope, no life, just the site
[17:33:50] <gishzida> nice to see everone has a life
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[17:31:12] <xyzzy> Hello, I found a news mention http://squte.com
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[17:24:04] <kobach> good morning Landon
[17:21:32] <Landon> amusing that you put my (never updated) blog with the slashdot alternatives :P
[17:21:06] <Landon> oh nvm, ancientt
[17:20:45] <Landon> who has phantomcode?
[17:19:18] <NezSez> SoyLentils ?
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[17:10:37] <SoyBison> works equally well for burgers....you just flatten it out and stick it between some bread
[17:10:33] <NezSez> you could cook meatballs normally, then broil them :)
[17:10:24] <SoyBison> it's traditional italian cuisine
[17:10:09] <kobach> sounds delicious
[17:09:56] <kobach> ive never seen somebody make crispy meatballs
[17:09:54] <NezSez> SoyBacon ?
[17:09:42] <NezSez> lol
[17:09:41] <SoyBison> tell that to an italian meatball
[17:09:30] <kobach> i dunno if you can mix the two, when you cook pork crispy its a meaty pork rind, cook beef crispy and its a hockey puck
[17:09:03] <NezSez> and yes, it tasted like chicken :)
[17:08:56] <SoyBison> half pork half beef is the way to go
[17:08:52] <NezSez> I tried an ostrich burger at Fuddruckers a few months ago
[17:08:32] <kobach> bison burgers are great, but i still prefer the much more versatile pork
[17:08:04] * NezSez ponders a camelCased soyCamel
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[17:06:07] * NezSez ponders "SoyGnu"
[17:06:01] <SoyBison> obligatory: https://xkcd.com
[17:05:31] <NezSez> bison burgers are oishiidesu!
[17:05:13] <nobbis> otherwise it would be parallel
[17:04:33] FatPhil is now known as FP_test
[17:04:27] <kobach> cereal = after bacon
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[17:04:14] <kobach> bacon = cooking
[17:04:10] <NezSez> SoyWildebeest maybe?
[17:04:04] <kobach> lol
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[17:02:46] * NezSez considers nick change to SoyCarabao
[17:02:40] <kobach> ^5 for bison, not the african animal, the buffalo
[17:01:34] <SoyBison> moo
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[16:59:45] <SoyYak> moo?
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[16:44:39] <nobbis> lol
[16:44:23] <kobach> "Guess-which-way-this-will-go" COULDNT SUM IT UP BETTER
[16:44:13] <kobach> LOL
[16:42:07] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - Warrantless Cell Phone Searches - SCOTUS to Decide - http://sylnt.us - Guess-which-way-this-will-go
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[16:37:04] <Robotron> I was more a jetpack player, but since jetpacks are up there with flying cars as the most notorious of vapor technologies...who wants them as a handle?
[16:32:17] <NezSez> hello kobach
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[16:24:14] <kobach> hi
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[15:49:38] <NezSez> that game was addictive I must say
[15:49:14] <NezSez> :)
[15:49:09] <NezSez> hola retro gamer!
[15:48:33] <Robotron> hey Nez
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[15:47:09] <NezSez> morning all
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[15:41:22] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - ISS Expedition 38 Crew Home Safely - http://sylnt.us - i'm-coming-home
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[14:14:15] * C_A_ apologizes to Phil
[14:13:03] * C_A_ is trying :(
[14:12:02] <cmdr_FatPhil> I see someone not very well suited to #irpg...
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[14:08:07] <Subsentient> (void*)&C;
[14:08:05] C is now known as C-A
[14:06:45] <C> ...
[14:06:39] CHALLNGEACCPTD is now known as C
[14:01:02] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> MOO
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[13:14:12] <cmdr_FatPhil> xman worked in the 90s
[13:12:36] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v cmdr_FatPhil] by irc.sylnt.us
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[13:05:44] <crutchy> ^^^^ dunno wtf all this guff means
[13:05:33] <crutchy> man: command exited with status 3: /usr/bin/zsoelim | /usr/lib/man-db/manconv -f UTF-8:ISO-8859-1 -t UTF-8//IGNORE | preconv -e UTF-8 | tbl | groff -mandoc -Thtml
[13:05:18] <crutchy> $ man --html=firefox hosts
[13:05:07] <crutchy> bah i can't get the html option to work
[13:01:20] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - Tim Berners-Lee Proposes an Online Magna Carta - http://sylnt.us - eRunnymede
[13:00:25] <crutchy> there's a --html option
[12:58:20] <crutchy> just typed "man man"
[12:57:50] <crutchy> but you're right about the related man pages
[12:57:41] <crutchy> links to websites look they they work
[12:57:29] <crutchy> but i can't find anything that looks like a way to link to another man page
[12:57:05] <crutchy> ?
[12:56:58] <crutchy> doesn't seem that hard to just open a new term and man whatever you want to get to
[12:55:30] <crutchy> *opens term*
[12:55:23] <crutchy> or something likethat
[12:55:16] <crutchy> can you use catarl or alt
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[12:49:41] * Konomi pouts at the linux manual
[12:47:19] <crutchy> lmao he failed steve irwin 101
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[12:42:14] <cmdr_FatPhil> crutchy: this is funnier: http://www.youtube.com
[12:41:46] <Konomi> anyone happen to know how to quickly jump to man pages shown on a current man page under the section see also I keep googling but nothing
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[12:35:04] <Konomi> there goes the battery hehe
[12:34:30] -!- MrBluze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[12:33:14] <Konomi> though I'm still trying to find some physcial activity to mix with my computing time walking for the sake of it is kinda boring ;p
[12:31:08] <Konomi> I was like should read "how your behaviour ruins your relationship"
[12:30:56] <Konomi> a friend showed me an article the other day "how smart phones ruin your relationship"
[12:30:32] <Konomi> I don't really subscribe to the whole good for you to avoid x technology stuff
[12:30:19] <Konomi> ha
[12:29:41] <MrBluze> means an early night i guess .. probably good for me
[12:29:27] * MrBluze facepalms
[12:29:23] <MrBluze> cant push start a laptop
[12:29:19] <MrBluze> yeah
[12:27:52] <Konomi> heh never forget the charger ~
[12:24:16] <MrBluze> out of batteries, forgot charger
[12:24:10] <MrBluze> im about to head off
[12:24:06] <MrBluze> hi Konomi btw
[12:19:34] <Konomi> one is a server/client the other is just the client for the record ^^
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[12:09:55] <Konomi> ops ~
[12:09:54] * Konomi purges ntp and installs ntpdate
[12:09:48] <MrBluze> or with a bag of oats
[12:09:34] * MrBluze nods seriously
[12:08:12] <crutchy> yeah... don't go up to their missus with a boner
[12:06:25] <MrBluze> but mainly if u make em jealous
[12:05:19] <MrBluze> yeah the bulls can be lethal
[12:03:07] <crutchy> dunno... most kangaroos i see are roadkill
[12:02:06] <prospectacle> crutchy, I was walking in the reserve the other day and I woke up this massive bull kangaroo who was sleeping behind the bush I was passing. He stood up and just looked at me while the rest of the mob were running away. I know they don't attack if they can possibly avoid it, but he looked like he was thinking about it, for interrupting his nap.
[12:01:13] <crutchy> reminds me of a funny youtube video: https://www.youtube.com
[12:01:07] <prospectacle> yah ontology
[12:00:37] <prospectacle> lol.
[12:00:34] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - What Shall We Be? - http://sylnt.us - ontology
[12:00:03] <crutchy> :-P
[12:00:01] * crutchy gets back onto kangaroo to go home to eat stewed rabbits in his cave home
[11:58:47] <crutchy> from over the other side of the fence about 500 km thataway
[11:57:56] <crutchy> ol' billo... yeah he's best mates with johno
[11:57:32] <prospectacle> crutchy I was in australia once. i met a guy called bill. Do you know him?
[11:56:37] <crutchy> get beta'd you motherbeta
[11:56:19] <crutchy> it's the new nerd bitchslap
[11:55:58] <cmdr_FatPhil> I've just gone to /. to retreive my friends list - and was beta'd the second I got there!
[11:55:29] <cmdr_FatPhil> ARGH!
[11:55:15] <crutchy> seems like us strayans on a different planet to most.... we go to bed when they start waking up
[11:53:31] * crutchy now feels cheated for lack of such option
[11:52:54] <crutchy> there was no meeeeeeee option
[11:52:44] <MrBluze> no pong for me
[11:52:25] <cmdr_FatPhil> Vote for meeeeee!
[11:51:04] <G-forze> thx
[11:51:00] <crutchy> http://soylentnews.org
[11:50:35] <G-forze> where can I see the vote options?
[11:49:53] <crutchy> no pong mrbluze?
[11:49:23] <crutchy> gallondr00nk: my vote just registered :-P
[11:47:06] <MrBluze> mattie_p: ping
[11:43:06] <MrBluze> that
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[11:43:01] <MrBluze_> nick MrBluze
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[11:42:23] <MrBluze_> mattie_p: u there?
[11:42:10] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v MrBluze_] by BaconTree
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[11:41:13] <prospectacle> oh wait, no, only 20 times
[11:41:00] <prospectacle> Have done, but I guess I'll need to vote a few hundred times more :)
[11:40:38] <gallondr00nk> For Great Independence.
[11:39:49] <gallondr00nk> Vote YES on IRC Poll #1
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[11:38:49] <prospectacle> I'm on your side
[11:37:48] <prospectacle> oh wait, i looked again. most prefer freenode, but self-sufficient is a close second! I think you can swing them!
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[11:36:54] <prospectacle> I think you've got majority on your site Bluze
[11:33:50] <MrBluze> Lots to do yet though
[11:33:33] <MrBluze> It's a good project and now on solid footing
[11:33:09] <prospectacle> I bet at this point if someone added a paypal tip-jar to SN it would be full quickly. There is sufficient trust
[11:32:59] <MrBluze> I say we do but it's not clear cut
[11:32:57] <gallondr00nk> @ksunku that's my feeling too
[11:32:44] <MrBluze> And the question is whether we gain from having our own irx
[11:32:38] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] OTOH you get more freedoms with your own server to do whatever
[11:32:27] <gallondr00nk> you could always use skype :P
[11:32:26] <prospectacle> I see.
[11:32:13] <MrBluze> Yep
[11:32:03] <gallondr00nk> the alternative is to go back to the freenode irc network
[11:31:47] <MrBluze> That's all
[11:31:43] <MrBluze> Irc requires maintenance and cost
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[11:30:42] <prospectacle> oh, why the poll? I must have misunderstood
[11:30:14] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] yea
[11:30:11] <gallondr00nk> i think?
[11:30:06] <gallondr00nk> well, they already do
[11:29:59] <prospectacle> If SN decided (based on poll) to host their own irc, will it add much to their time/money budget, do you think?
[11:28:40] <prospectacle> lol @ ksuhku
[11:28:35] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] :D
[11:28:30] <MrBluze> Lol my life is a honey pot to catch the three letter agencies
[11:28:21] <gallondr00nk> i'd go for a cheap vps, just play with it until you get it right
[11:28:19] <crutchy> i run a low traffic website and most of my default vhost log is filled with nasties
[11:27:57] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] if you fail, just tell everybody it was a honeypot
[11:27:33] <prospectacle> yeah nasties are the worst.
[11:27:26] <gallondr00nk> :P
[11:27:19] <crutchy> lots of nasties out there prodding for open ports
[11:27:08] <crutchy> i would recommend a dmz
[11:26:41] <MrBluze> It is
[11:26:40] <gallondr00nk> that would work too
[11:26:40] <crutchy> or if you want to go full monty you can just open 6667 to your whole lan :-P
[11:26:20] <crutchy> or you can host at home if you have a spare router laying around that you can use to make a dmz
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[11:26:03] <prospectacle> Ok, thanks. just curious
[11:25:41] <gallondr00nk> entry level vps hosting seems pretty cheap now
[11:25:39] <crutchy> many isp offer some hosting and other perks with your internet service
[11:25:25] <crutchy> try through your isp
[11:24:51] <prospectacle> MrBluze: can you just like rent your own cloud irc (with your own name/bots/channels/control) cheaply? Is it as easy as when trying to renting some apache/php/mysql hosting/
[11:24:42] <crutchy> i never done it before but i generally start with synaptic search to find the program names and then jump onto google
[11:24:32] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] IRC is soo sexy
[11:24:17] <crutchy> np :-)
[11:24:08] <crutchy> http://www.leonardaustin.com
[11:24:02] <prospectacle> crutchy, thanks
[11:23:43] <crutchy> http://en.wikipedia.org
[11:23:28] <MrBluze> But irc is great tool
[11:23:25] <crutchy> http://www.ircd-hybrid.org
[11:22:32] <MrBluze> Issues are security and all the tinkering and ddos
[11:22:24] <crutchy> or apt-get install ircd-hybrid
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[11:21:54] <prospectacle> I see
[11:21:54] <gallondr00nk> I always assumed the resource cost is pretty trivial
[11:21:42] <crutchy> apt-get install ircd-irc2
[11:21:41] <MrBluze> U just need to get a decent server
[11:21:24] <MrBluze> It's not expensive
[11:20:36] <MrBluze> There's a bit to it
[11:20:32] <gallondr00nk> i think it's dependent on how popular it is?
[11:20:28] <crutchy> xlefay is your man to ask
[11:17:52] <prospectacle> are irc servers expensive if you want to run your own?
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[11:12:24] <crutchy> swiss: wicked animation
[11:11:31] <crutchy> my favourite scene: http://montypython.50webs.com
[11:10:20] <stderr> Yes, I'm great. :-)
[11:10:16] <ar> and i'm the one losing each and every battle
[11:10:04] <ar> stderr: you're the top player anyway
[11:09:34] <swiss> and with that, i go to sleep
[11:09:28] <swiss> http://imgur.com
[11:08:17] <crutchy> http://montypython.50webs.com
[11:07:47] <crutchy> Oh, that's nice, isn't it? I'm glad they're getting something, 'cause they have a hell of a time.
[11:07:05] <crutchy> blessed are the meek
[11:06:55] <crutchy> oh my frapping lunchbox... holyjuice.org actually goes somewhere :-P
[11:06:34] <stderr> W00T!!!
[11:06:30] <stderr> <idlerpg> kobach, stderr, xlefay, and arachnist have blessed the realm by completing their quest! 25% of their burden is eliminated.
[11:05:54] <crutchy> holyjuice.org
[11:05:23] <crutchy> fuck yeah!
[10:55:13] <Subsentient> crutchy: All hail the juicer and it's holy tentacles.
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[10:51:30] <crutchy> :-)
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[10:51:18] <Titanium> nevermind
[10:51:09] <Titanium> ya
[10:51:03] <crutchy> the littlebits article?
[10:50:52] <Titanium> http://www.soylentnews.org
[10:50:43] <crutchy> lol oky dokes
[10:50:37] <crutchy> i didn't mention breadbboards
[10:50:35] <Titanium> go to sn
[10:50:29] <crutchy> sry not sure what article you talking about
[10:50:25] <Titanium> you are
[10:50:25] <MrBluze> Brb
[10:50:24] <Titanium> youa re
[10:50:18] <crutchy> are we talking about the juicer now?
[10:50:04] <Titanium> they just described a breadboard
[10:49:58] <Titanium> the article
[10:49:56] <Titanium> for DIP chips :)
[10:49:55] <crutchy> what about breadboards?
[10:49:42] <crutchy> yeah i know what a breadboard is
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[10:49:33] <Titanium> its a board with a bunch of holes in it
[10:49:23] <Titanium> not the original ones
[10:49:19] <Titanium> well
[10:49:16] <Titanium> yes
[10:49:08] <crutchy> breadboards?
[10:48:53] <Titanium> how is this news?
[10:48:49] <Titanium> umm, breadboards were discovered a long time ago
[10:48:18] <crutchy> maybe if you spliced the signal thousands of times you could combine the inputs of thousands of consumer grade sensors with staggered timing
[10:48:05] <Subsentient> crutchy: That's why I'm all fruity in the coconut. I... saw stuff, man...
[10:47:17] <crutchy> hahahaha nah i haven't seen that one
[10:46:58] <crutchy> honestly i don't think you're going to get any consumer grade sensors that are gunna do that kind of resolution
[10:46:48] <Subsentient> crutchy: Did you see the one that tells you how to make an interdimensional portal out of a juicer?
[10:46:04] <Titanium> i have been searching :(
[10:46:02] <crutchy> i've seen a website that supposedly tells you how to make a nuclear bomb out of a washing machine
[10:45:37] <crutchy> there's prolly shitloads of websites that tell you how to do it
[10:45:34] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] now all you have is soylent
[10:45:34] <Titanium> and they dont get along well as the 2 things are totally different
[10:45:24] <Titanium> and optical people
[10:45:22] <Titanium> network people
[10:45:20] <Titanium> the problem is normally you have 2 groups
[10:44:28] <Titanium> posibly 1000s of times
[10:44:26] <crutchy> well at least i know why you haven't talked to anyone at verizon
[10:44:14] <Titanium> i need to do this 300 times
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[10:44:03] <crutchy> lol
[10:44:02] <Titanium> (in a lab)
[10:44:00] <Titanium> and see what happens
[10:43:57] <Titanium> and then fix
[10:43:54] <Titanium> basically i have an internet trunk line i need to break
[10:43:51] <MrBluze> Lol
[10:43:41] <Titanium> no, but it depends on who you ask :)
[10:43:23] <crutchy> are you trying to hack into an internet trunk line or something?
[10:43:23] <MrBluze> Titanium are you that guy with a black hat on xkcd?
[10:43:01] <Titanium> or 9.6 tbps for singlemode
[10:42:53] <crutchy> err... oky doky
[10:42:43] <Titanium> it needs to handle 40gbps
[10:42:43] <MrBluze> But that's illegal naturally
[10:42:28] <crutchy> what about those cheap fiber optic kits
[10:42:17] <MrBluze> U could just find out where some is buried and dig it up
[10:42:06] <crutchy> oh i do use those optical cables for my sound system... they're cool too
[10:41:54] <Titanium> cheap for a test tool, but not compared to me pulling a cable
[10:41:35] <Titanium> i found somethingthat should work... but its like $1k each
[10:41:29] <crutchy> sounds cool though
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[10:41:05] <crutchy> i did some basic total internal reflection physics at uni, but as far as anything useful goes, i'm definitely not your guy sorry
[10:40:37] <Titanium> or better
[10:40:33] <Titanium> this needs to be OM3 multimode
[10:39:50] <crutchy> i used to have a christmas tree with "fiber optic" lights... fibers consisting of stiff fishing line
[10:39:08] <crutchy> well i'm not a telco guy so i have no idea
[10:38:49] <Titanium> i already have that stuff
[10:38:44] <Titanium> i need somethiogn that can replace pulling a cable and putting it back
[10:38:44] <crutchy> :-P
[10:38:41] <crutchy> splice a fiber signal
[10:38:32] <Titanium> nah
[10:38:27] <crutchy> so you wanna do an NSA prism thing
[10:37:58] <Titanium> and i cant move them :(
[10:37:43] <Titanium> but they are too far for SR optics
[10:37:32] <Titanium> we have some optical add/drop mux kinda stuff
[10:37:29] <crutchy> oh hang on you need it to break a cable
[10:37:16] <crutchy> ductape
[10:37:04] <crutchy> actually if you were made of lego that would be awesome
[10:36:55] <Titanium> what I need is a physical device that can break and fix a fiber cable
[10:36:38] <crutchy> :-)
[10:36:15] <crutchy> err i don't care whether you're girl, guy, alien or made of lego
[10:36:15] <Titanium> i think you know what i mean
[10:36:10] <Titanium> wait, i messed that up
[10:35:29] <Titanium> it = gender not question
[10:35:27] <crutchy> i'm blissful in my ignorance
[10:35:09] <Titanium> does it matter
[10:35:02] <crutchy> what was my next question?
[10:34:55] <crutchy> lol
[10:34:51] <crutchy> instant messaging definitely better
[10:34:50] <Titanium> to answer your next qustion, no
[10:34:36] <crutchy> oh
[10:34:31] <Titanium> same sex as me
[10:34:20] <crutchy> are the interns hot?
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[10:33:58] <Titanium> the parts that require physical stuff... it instant messages an intern
[10:33:48] <crutchy> and i guess if you feel ripped off you wouldn't do it
[10:33:29] <Titanium> i actually wrote a program that does most of my job :)
[10:33:26] <crutchy> as long as you and you're boss are both ok with the arrangement i don't see the big deal :-)
[10:32:44] <crutchy> i don't think i wanna see any more bacon for a while
[10:32:39] <Titanium> (for free)
[10:32:35] <Titanium> crutchy i also write stuff to make my job easier :)
[10:32:01] <crutchy> ahh
[10:31:56] <MrBluze> It's not up yet I think it will be tomorrow
[10:31:32] <crutchy> can't see under http://soylentnews.org
[10:31:17] <MrBluze> Names like soylentnews, dailybacon, baconnews, geekcard, others
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[10:30:17] <MrBluze> A poll
[10:30:03] <MrBluze> It will be on the main Page of the website
[10:29:59] * crutchy feels dumb
[10:29:43] <crutchy> i don't even know where to vote
[10:29:38] <MrBluze> Nothing yet
[10:29:30] <crutchy> whats in the lead?
[10:29:18] <MrBluze> I hope everyone votes on a name tomorrow
[10:29:12] <crutchy> the access query thing is a tool that i built just to draw gantt charts of timeshhet data and job deadlines etc, so not really engineering
[10:28:37] <MrBluze> Very similar to me but as u know very different field
[10:26:56] <crutchy> useful for me cos i write engineering software that supplements my job... that's why i get paid to use it :-)
[10:26:07] <MrBluze> Yep. Same for me crutchy and software counts ;)
[10:25:38] <crutchy> lol
[10:25:31] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] moore's law
[10:25:11] <crutchy> there's also professional development, which for an engineer is required by law
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[10:24:57] <MrBluze> Yep
[10:24:50] <MrBluze> Free stuff pays better than money sometimes
[10:24:44] <crutchy> job security in my case is definitely one
[10:24:29] <crutchy> there's plenty of intangible benefits
[10:23:19] <MrBluze> That is I just got it without much effort
[10:22:49] <MrBluze> But the fact the software is still in use after 6 years and no updates meant I got a job
[10:22:25] <MrBluze> I've done lots of stuff like that crutchy
[10:21:49] <crutchy> i didn't get paid for it but it makes my job easier. work owns it and a lot of people would think i was stupid for working for nothing, but meh
[10:21:41] <prospectacle> "A gunnado" I like it. Described me perfectly
[10:20:57] <crutchy> about the only project that i've persevered with is the one that i developed for work that i use daily
[10:20:54] <MrBluze> Lol
[10:20:36] <crutchy> don't hold your breath though cos i really am a gunnado
[10:20:23] <crutchy> if i can get off my arse and put enough effort into it i might be able to come up with a proof and upload it to github under gpl2
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[10:20:06] <stderr> crutchy: .fm?
[10:19:31] <stderr> crutchy: I have seen proof-of-concept code for stuff that Google made years later. The POC code was better than what Google ended up with.
[10:19:26] <SedBot> <crutchy> i have a guineapig named waffles :-0
[10:19:26] <crutchy> s/waffeles/waffles/
[10:19:12] <crutchy> i have a guineapig named waffeles :-0
[10:19:11] <Hedonismbot> karma - bacon: 158
[10:19:11] <MrBluze> Bacon++
[10:19:01] <crutchy> hmmm waffles
[10:18:54] <MrBluze> Waffles
[10:18:48] <crutchy> then it doesn't matter who develops it
[10:18:40] <prospectacle> I think new and experimental technologies can be explored when the site has stable: a)administration/ownership model, and b)financial model. That is key and primary to all.
[10:18:23] <crutchy> i like the idea of gpl2 though
[10:18:15] <crutchy> lol stderr... they might do it better
[10:17:59] <crutchy> what about parfait... everybody loves parfait
[10:17:47] <stderr> crutchy: And then remember it again in 5 years time, when Google introduces it (made in a bad way)...
[10:17:30] <MrBluze> But I'm assured that is a dumb idea
[10:17:17] <crutchy> with layers :-)
[10:17:05] <MrBluze> I'd like us to have an onion site
[10:17:00] <crutchy> i'm a gunna do. i might write some notes and then forget about the whole thing when i have some other idea
[10:16:42] <stderr> While it might be possible to make something distributed that might work... it'll take way too long for us to do that.
[10:16:38] <crutchy> prospectacle: agree and thanks
[10:16:36] <MrBluze> If we are even Sn
[10:16:23] <MrBluze> Sn coin?
[10:16:17] <crutchy> there's no doubt much more smarterer people out there than me who know about signing and whatnot
[10:16:07] <prospectacle> crutchy, seriously, all the best of luck and fortune. I see this as a major project that wouldn't help SN in the short term.
[10:16:04] <Titanium> the other problem is then the focus is on creating a whole new technology, instead of a news site
[10:15:32] <crutchy> hmm there's probably a few ways you could do it. i'm not sure what the best way would be
[10:15:16] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] SN-coins++
[10:14:57] <FoobarBazbot_> Titanium: it does
[10:14:49] <SedBot> <FoobarBazbot_> <crutchy> hosts could mod you
[10:14:49] <FoobarBazbot_> crutchy: s/(.*) (.*) (.*) (.*)/\4 \2 \3 \1/
[10:14:33] <prospectacle> crutchy, mod points don't seem to create a consensus in the current system, (and a consensus is what's needed)
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[10:13:35] <crutchy> you could mod hosts
[10:13:20] <Titanium> and then give out modpoints when we sign it :)
[10:13:16] <stderr> Titanium: SN-coins!!! :-)
[10:13:02] <Titanium> and require some work to prove we can sign it :)
[10:13:00] <prospectacle> Good evening mr bluze
[10:12:56] <Titanium> maybe we could sign each addition
[10:12:41] <MrBluze> Evening peeps
[10:12:36] <stderr> web-of-trust... Each user trust one or more host, each host trust one or more other hosts...
[10:12:25] <crutchy> you would need some kind of comparative voting system
[10:12:21] <Titanium> how do you revoke keys
[10:12:18] <prospectacle> It's fine for static content, but for a discussion site it could be trouble
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[10:11:51] <prospectacle> crutchy, don't you still need a central authority to say: these nodes are valid, these ones are imposters? Otherwise what if there are roughly equal fake nodes to real ones?
[10:11:50] <crutchy> there are a few models to choose from
[10:11:41] <crutchy> and those x nodes send it out to x more nodes
[10:11:32] <crutchy> or you might send it out to x nodes
[10:11:19] <crutchy> you send it out to all the registered nodes
[10:10:53] <crutchy> same way anything else in synched in p2p
[10:10:24] <crutchy> i guess if the web host sent you some js it might be able to cause some havoc
[10:10:14] <prospectacle> crutchy, how do you synchronise posts/comments/updates? that's a whole new kettle of fish.
[10:10:07] <crutchy> never heard of anyone being pned by a web host
[10:09:15] <Titanium> at that point its too late
[10:09:14] <crutchy> pwned by what?
[10:09:09] <Titanium> you are alreay pwned, and there is news about this new insecure thing
[10:09:07] <crutchy> what's too late?
[10:08:57] <Titanium> its too late
[10:08:42] <crutchy> if you get fucked by one host node, you could always just block that one and try another
[10:08:39] <stderr> Titanium: I think that's a "no". :-)
[10:08:25] <crutchy> no doubt there are holes in a distributed system, but i guess one advantage might be that you are also distributing the trustworthiness of the system
[10:08:24] * SedBot is a 53-line awk script, https://github.com
[10:08:24] <stderr> SedBot
[10:08:14] <prospectacle> crutchy, nothing is perfect, but if/when/while you trust a server, you don't have to trust a million random affiliated nodes to use it
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[10:07:51] <Titanium> does it support complicated regex?
[10:07:31] <Titanium> AWESOME
[10:07:19] <SedBot> <crutchy> you go to pipedot?
[10:07:19] <crutchy> s/go/you/
[10:07:11] <crutchy> go go to pipedot?
[10:07:06] <crutchy> you bust up the trust in one server, and then what?
[10:06:49] <crutchy> that trust is also dependent on one server, which in our case recently was busted up
[10:06:20] <crutchy> if you use ssl there is more security
[10:06:17] <prospectacle> crutchy, difference is you trust one site, to a certain degree, and continue until it breaks your trust. You don't have to trust lots of different nodes
[10:06:15] <Titanium> and tons of effort goes into that program to prevent this
[10:06:06] <Titanium> the security is guranteed by the web browser
[10:06:02] <crutchy> there's mitm
[10:05:48] <crutchy> or hacked
[10:05:39] <crutchy> but nothing on the web is secure, not even traditional web hosts, which can be (and are) phished
[10:05:04] <crutchy> might have to think of that one some more
[10:04:06] <Titanium> and SN's name would be all over it
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[10:03:58] <Titanium> all it takes is one server and an hour and he just pwned a ton of peopel's computers
[10:03:28] <Titanium> the person that runs that server can insert whatever he wants
[10:03:18] <Titanium> when you launch it, and connect to a P2P server...
[10:03:12] <crutchy> :-)
[10:03:09] <crutchy> cya foobar
[10:03:06] <crutchy> lol
[10:03:01] <FoobarBazbot_> on that note, I should sleep instead of dozing. later, all
[10:02:53] <crutchy> with no gui
[10:02:51] <crutchy> just a launcher
[10:02:47] <crutchy> not a giant client
[10:02:36] <crutchy> actually the more i think about it it just seems like bread and butter networking
[10:02:18] <Titanium> but you have this giant client to download
[10:02:17] <crutchy> doesn't seem that miraculous
[10:02:10] <crutchy> probably
[10:02:03] <Titanium> and it works pretty well
[10:01:58] <Titanium> they already have this for static html :)
[10:01:54] <crutchy> i've developed stuff like this before
[10:01:45] <FoobarBazbot_> Titanium, yeah, I'm kinda dozing off here, so I'm not tracking all the details, but it sounds pretty close to some existing stuff. I'll have to read crutchy's journal when it comes up and I'm awaker.
[10:01:41] <crutchy> brain is in overdrive :-P
[10:01:40] <Titanium> I belive this will be much more complicated thatn you realize right now to implement securely
[10:01:32] <crutchy> :-)
[10:01:30] <crutchy> keep an eye on my journal
[10:01:16] <prospectacle> crutchy I wish you luck on your new distributed web-server idea. But details= array(devil);
[10:01:08] <crutchy> checksum verification from other host nodes by the launcher application
[10:00:59] <Titanium> how does a client verify it
[10:00:48] <crutchy> just a settings file for the host node
[10:00:40] <Titanium> how do you verify the host node
[10:00:38] <crutchy> both would require no gui programming
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[10:00:25] <crutchy> it's only two parts: host node daemon and launcher program
[10:00:19] <Titanium> those darknet sites
[10:00:18] <FoobarBazbot_> distributed web == singularity and all that!
[10:00:14] <Titanium> this already is written btw
[09:59:52] <FoobarBazbot_> but ideally, the sort of thing crutchy is talking about would be generalized, write once, reuse everywhere
[09:59:51] <crutchy> and i'm making it up as i go along :-P
[09:59:42] <Titanium> it is not a bad idea, but implementing it would be borderlien impossible
[09:59:42] <prospectacle> crutchy: I agree it's a good idea for a project, but it would take months of work
[09:59:41] <crutchy> p2p web service seems complicated cos i suck at explaining it
[09:59:40] <swiss> crutchy: isn't this kinda like how usenet stuff works? I've never done usenet stuff, so i'm not sure
[09:59:21] <prospectacle> slashcode has been written already and works, it took a fair bit of time, too
[09:59:15] <Titanium> but more complicated :)
[09:59:08] <Titanium> slashcode is more straightforward
[09:59:04] <FoobarBazbot_> prospectacle, for the case of sn specifically, yes.
[09:58:59] <crutchy> software is complicated
[09:58:55] <crutchy> nah it sounds complicated, but have you seen how complicated slashcode is?
[09:58:37] <Titanium> and distribute the thing and verify that you run on your computer
[09:58:36] <swiss> make the application check that TXT record
[09:58:29] <crutchy> this checksum could be verified by the launcher program before slecting the host and opening the browser
[09:58:26] <prospectacle> crutchy, you're creating and trying to solve a lot of new, extra problems to solve an original problem (costs) that could be solved with some donations or member fees
[09:58:26] <swiss> publish it in a TXT record for the DNS
[09:58:23] <Titanium> and you need to distribute and verify the thing that does that
[09:58:08] <Titanium> swiss that works, but then you still need to distribute it and verify it
[09:58:05] <crutchy> and every request must include some kind of checksum from another node
[09:58:03] <FoobarBazbot_> Titanium: yes we can... 8==D
[09:57:51] <swiss> why not just pgp key sign shit
[09:57:34] <crutchy> maybe every so often every host node must be checksummed by x number of other hosts nodes or it gets knocked off the registry
[09:57:33] <Titanium> the site should be safe for work...
[09:57:31] <swiss> i'd go to the site like, twice as often
[09:57:17] <swiss> why not
[09:57:07] <Titanium> we cant have people opening up SN and seeing private body parts
[09:57:02] <crutchy> that's possible
[09:56:48] <Titanium> this is the internet, its full of douchbags
[09:56:35] <Titanium> there are many ways to do bad things
[09:56:28] <Titanium> yes, exactly
[09:56:21] <swiss> worked pretty well so far
[09:56:20] <crutchy> perhaps your concern is more to do with someone adding a dodgy host node to the system
[09:56:07] <swiss> the main way i make sure i only run trusted stuff is by auditing my filesystem and network traffic
[09:56:02] <Titanium> crutchy when you make the program do that it becomes complicated
[09:55:29] <Titanium> i run xp :(
[09:55:17] <cmdr_FatPhil> swiss: trust me, running linux and not having an x86 (or amd86) box limits my "anything" choices even more!
[09:55:15] <Titanium> with this idea, the web browser doesnt really fit in it other that the displaying of the content
[09:55:06] <crutchy> i think the best way would be make the host program only serve content that has been approved/vetted/signed by a minimum number of users, like a moderation system
[09:54:23] <Titanium> how does it know that the server that i setup that got chosen to host the content is running signed code
[09:53:52] <swiss> so meh
[09:53:48] <swiss> also, my computer is basically a malware lab
[09:53:43] <crutchy> you wouldn't trust windows updates that didn't come from microsoft.com
[09:53:42] <Titanium> and the comments?
[09:53:39] <Titanium> so this signed code... how does it verify that the articles it recieves are signed too?
[09:53:18] <swiss> choices*
[09:53:17] <swiss> Titanium: running linux really limits my "anything" chices
[09:53:07] <swiss> then i forget i installed it and it lives there till i reinstall
[09:53:05] <Titanium> swiss
[09:53:01] <Titanium> ^^ terrible idea :(
[09:53:00] <crutchy> titanium: you only download it from a trusted source, and you make sure it's signed
[09:52:51] <swiss> i run anything on my computer for like 5 minutes
[09:52:47] <prospectacle> Titanium: I agree, not a replacement, an option
[09:52:32] <useless> crutchy: count me in, got some ideas
[09:52:30] <crutchy> a delphi program that listens to http requests and queries microsoft access and returns the query results
[09:52:25] <Titanium> how does it make sure that untrusted code is not run?
[09:52:08] <crutchy> i've developed something similar for work already
[09:51:57] <prospectacle> crutchy, good idea.
[09:51:54] <crutchy> cos if i can motivate myself i might be able to start working on something independent of soylent
[09:51:24] <Titanium> but not a repalcement
[09:51:24] <crutchy> but i might write up a journal about it
[09:51:20] <Titanium> i think it would be fine in addition to the site
[09:51:09] <crutchy> i agree
[09:50:58] <prospectacle> crutchy, I think your plan would be good once the site is well established and trusted. But not for the first couple of years.
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[09:50:47] <Titanium> but not from websites
[09:50:47] <crutchy> all those that i mentioned write buggy software
[09:50:32] <Titanium> yes I do
[09:50:28] <Titanium> that is why i dont run software from a website on my computer
[09:50:26] <crutchy> but do you trust software from microsoft, adobe, or how about linux torvalds?
[09:50:05] <crutchy> nobody writes any software without bugs
[09:49:53] <Titanium> i dont
[09:49:51] <prospectacle> A website is a sandbox of sorts. It adds extra complexity and danger to ask site-visitors do download and run a daemon to view the site.
[09:49:49] <crutchy> the launcher and host daemon could be made available from the debian repositories if we went though the proper channels to get it there
[09:49:48] <Titanium> that is fine, but do you trust NCommander to write soemthing without bugs, and not have anyone alter his code?
[09:49:13] <crutchy> when i install packages in debian, they are signed
[09:48:55] <useless> like every website you visit does
[09:48:48] <Titanium> they run code that is trusted
[09:48:41] <crutchy> it's unfortunate
[09:48:34] <crutchy> yes, computers generally do that
[09:48:18] <Titanium> but this involves runnign code on my computer
[09:47:59] <crutchy> you don't even need to see it
[09:47:50] <crutchy> after your browser opens, the launcher exits
[09:47:25] <Titanium> having code from a website has always been a source of problems
[09:47:25] <crutchy> i'm talking about executing a launcher application which merely opens your browser to an available host node
[09:47:01] <crutchy> and i'm not talking about running applications from a website
[09:46:51] <Titanium> i disable it
[09:46:46] <crutchy> heard of flash?
[09:46:41] <crutchy> because most already do
[09:46:15] <crutchy> host daemon could be signed similarly to any debian package
[09:46:12] <Titanium> why would people run applications from a website?
[09:45:49] <crutchy> you might just need a small launcher program to find an active node from a shared registry
[09:45:30] <crutchy> hence you could browse using a web browser
[09:45:24] <prospectacle> I don't tihnk there's much chance either of it being distributed any time soon. Financially, would you rather be asked for donations once a year, see ads all year, or pay $10 once a year as a membership?
[09:45:15] <Titanium> who signs, and who checks the host deamon
[09:45:12] <crutchy> and the host nodes would just be like normal web servers
[09:44:57] <Titanium> but it cannot replace a website
[09:44:51] <crutchy> the host daemon would only serve content signed by x other nodes
[09:44:51] <Titanium> also there is no reason to not have that in addition to a normal website
[09:44:18] <crutchy> host nodes can be installed by anyone who wants to
[09:44:12] <Titanium> CDN + bgp anycast
[09:44:07] <useless> server sends shit, client interperetes and renders shit
[09:43:56] <Titanium> servers can be redundant
[09:43:53] <prospectacle> I think client-server is best/easiest/fastest for now. Just my opinion
[09:43:53] <crutchy> a daemon is a service that runs in the background (like a virus scanner appears in your system tray near the clock in the windows taskbar)... it would be the host node
[09:43:46] <Konomi> the server model is not redundent
[09:43:40] <Konomi> it was meant to be redundent
[09:43:38] <Titanium> p2p is great, but how do you prevent someone from inserting attack code
[09:43:35] <Konomi> actually everyone was supposed to be peers
[09:43:26] <useless> except it was
[09:43:15] <Konomi> never been a fan of the whole server client thing net wasn't meant to work like that
[09:43:11] <useless> Ugh
[09:42:57] <Konomi> p2p or die!
[09:42:51] <Konomi> nobody hosts a hosts generally
[09:42:51] <FoobarBazbot_> SaaS web browser?
[09:42:48] <Titanium> oops, chromas, stupid auto complete
[09:42:45] <crutchy> you use a client (web browser) to connect to a node
[09:42:24] <crutchy> nobody hosts a client
[09:42:11] <Titanium> crutchy, but then who hosts the client :D
[09:41:49] <crutchy> current web technology is only limited by imagination
[09:41:12] * FoobarBazbot is mocking this on IRC instead of a comment because I have teh mod points
[09:41:10] <crutchy> only signed articles appear
[09:41:03] <Titanium> it would be great to set it up that way, but current web technology makes it all but impossible
[09:40:59] <crutchy> some kind of voting based signing might work
[09:40:55] <prospectacle> crutchy: would we have to download extra software?
[09:40:50] <chromas> Ooh ooh! Write the client in JavaScript/HTML!
[09:40:29] <FoobarBazbot> Also, much like magnets.
[09:40:16] <Titanium> now tons of people jsut got 0 dayed
[09:40:13] <FoobarBazbot> From the latest article: "... which snap together using magnets, much like LEGOs would if they were held together by magnets."
[09:40:10] <Titanium> otherwise lets say i host one and i am evil
[09:40:06] <crutchy> like a daemon
[09:40:01] <crutchy> program running in background as server
[09:39:59] <Titanium> and its not static html
[09:39:54] <Titanium> you would need to sign the pages
[09:39:44] <crutchy> you could use a browser as a client
[09:39:38] <prospectacle> I agree with useless, Titanium: better if it's just a website.
[09:39:10] <Titanium> it should work in firefox/chrome/whatever
[09:39:07] <prospectacle> crutchy: that sounds like a lot of work on top of existing site code. Not to say it can't happen, of course.
[09:39:00] <Titanium> installing software to view a website is not feasable
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[09:38:44] <Titanium> it would work on those darknet websites... but not on real ones
[09:38:35] <crutchy> you can make a client that presents the data any way you like
[09:38:31] <Titanium> and letting others control the content... is ripe for abuse
[09:38:16] <crutchy> its just data
[09:38:13] <Titanium> people like stuff that works in a web browser
[09:38:01] <crutchy> instead of music
[09:37:58] <useless> crutchy: not really true. a shared host account wont work for a site like this
[09:37:57] <crutchy> except for news/comments
[09:37:56] <Titanium> no
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[09:37:51] <crutchy> think of something like napster
[09:37:34] <prospectacle> crutchy. Would that work. Technically i mean?
[09:37:29] <Titanium> yep, but i can dream of them coming back :)
[09:37:28] <crutchy> and development would be on a voluntary basis
[09:37:17] <crutchy> with a distributed model anyone can volunteer to host, so no hosting costs
[09:37:16] <useless> site sponcors are gone
[09:37:12] <prospectacle> drussell, wouldn't that be something. I'd happily pay $10/year. That's nothing to pretty much anyone (in first world at least). Even let non-members post, but perhaps no mods, no journal, etc.
[09:37:07] <Titanium> sponsored by someone
[09:37:01] <Titanium> a .gif ad, hosted by SN
[09:36:47] <useless> oh, no popup, under, etc
[09:36:45] <Titanium> im better at math than spelling
[09:36:33] <Titanium> sponsors, not ads
[09:36:25] <Titanium> but not an iframe or whatever
[09:36:21] <useless> Titanium: Ads
[09:36:14] <Titanium> like a banner saying look at this cool technology
[09:36:10] <drussell> I think it would be absolutely fabulous if a site like this could operate with no ads... Mostly just to show that it's still freakin' possible!
[09:36:07] <crutchy> but maybe using its own protocol
[09:36:03] <Titanium> if the adds are inside the site... i have no problems with them
[09:35:52] <crutchy> maybe not DNS driven (that would be a bottleneck)
[09:35:50] <prospectacle> adsense I mean
[09:35:46] <Titanium> ^^ +1
[09:35:45] <prospectacle> lol, true, even if they had ads no one would see them.
[09:35:33] <useless> with this group, and ad blocking, yeah, they should ask for donations
[09:35:27] * crutchy wonders if a distributed service could be developed... divide the load, build in redundancy and if anyone's host goes down others will pick up the slack
[09:35:22] <Titanium> either way it should have no problem with bandwidth and hosting
[09:35:15] <prospectacle> useless: I think it would be amazing if it were entirely community funded (And worked), imagine a non-commercial site. What an idea.
[09:35:00] <Titanium> if they start putting addsense on it... i dont think it should get donations
[09:34:52] <prospectacle> Titanium: Good point, not all ads are terrible, there is a limit.
[09:34:38] <useless> not people that think they can get there investment back over so many months
[09:34:34] <Titanium> but i hate add networks
[09:34:31] <Titanium> also I am fine with advertisements
[09:34:13] <prospectacle> Titanium: I agree. I think the setup/structure in the early stages can ensure this continues to be free from ads, despite changes in the whims or needs of individual members/contributors, etc
[09:34:10] <useless> and staffed
[09:33:48] <useless> so community funded
[09:33:45] <crutchy> or crapple lawsuits
[09:33:24] <Titanium> personally I just want a news site (with awesome comments) that isnt full of slashvertisements and bitcoin (some bitcoin is okay)
[09:32:41] <crutchy> i ate too much bacon
[09:32:27] <prospectacle> useless: If it's a charity, it might end up begging a couple times a year like wikipedia (which isn't the worst thing in the world). If it's a (cheap) membership it would have resources directly in proportion to interest/passion/users
[09:31:56] <useless> yeah
[09:31:52] <prospectacle> useless: I agree. Raising the money either way wouldn't be a problem, if that's all it is (10k). So it depends more I guess on what the long term model would be.
[09:31:50] <useless> Titanium: if people are donating time, that's one thing. If they are offering time because it may be venture seaking
[09:31:49] <Titanium> once its running there would be the occasional fire... but other than that it may run itsself other than peopel that create content
[09:31:26] <Titanium> personally i dont see that a site would require 40 hours a week or work
[09:31:12] <Titanium> it depends on what the goals are
[09:30:57] <prospectacle> Titanium. That's a valid concern. On the other hand, many organisations run happily based on volunteer effort if there's a) not too much work and b) lots of dedicated people
[09:30:55] <Titanium> if you want $100k... thats a different story
[09:30:44] <Titanium> if its only $10k a year... i could cover that myself if thats what is needed to keep the site alive
[09:30:41] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - littleBits: Circuits Meet LEGO Blocks - http://sylnt.us - play-into-our-hands
[09:30:23] <useless> prospectacle: from the comments in the drama threads, you could make that easily in a fund drive
[09:30:16] <Titanium> otherwise you get turnover and people that may just dissappear
[09:30:02] <Titanium> if they are doing this when they could be consulting or have a job, they need to get paid
[09:29:46] <Titanium> expecting people to work hard on this and dedicate time is unreasonable
[09:29:24] <useless> but trying to make money under the guise of being a comunity is dishonest
[09:29:15] <prospectacle> But let's say for argument's sake $10k a year (bandwidth, servers, legal fees)
[09:28:46] <prospectacle> This is old: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[09:28:40] <Titanium> just dont trash the site to do it
[09:28:36] <useless> true
[09:28:26] <Titanium> there is nothing wrong with making money
[09:28:02] <useless> or
[09:27:56] <useless> Titanium: are you for profit oe not
[09:27:50] <prospectacle> Yes I was talking about SN
[09:27:19] <useless> well ,depends on the content. I was assuming SN
[09:27:17] <Titanium> how much money are you looking to get per year, are you hoping to hire people to work full time on this or just cover costs?
[09:26:45] <Titanium> how much does it cost to run?
[09:26:07] <prospectacle> useless: please, continue
[09:25:36] <useless> charity
[09:24:37] <prospectacle> [topic suggestion]: Would it be better to be a club, with paid membership (e.g. $10 a year. free to watch, pay to play), or a charity, that relies on donations.
[09:23:58] * prospectacle was just testing. I guess a real person will have to come up with a topic
[09:22:59] <prospectacle> /wheel
[09:22:51] <FatPhil> speck + pulses + onion = rocks!
[09:22:00] <useless> ehh, I find game (lamb, dear, etc) goes better with lentils
[09:20:53] <drussell> Goes well with Soylent LOL
[09:20:35] <drussell> Neat Meat... That could be a good brand name...
[09:20:05] <drussell> I have a smoker so I've made all kinds of neat concoctions
[09:19:18] <drussell> FatPhil: Double agreed :)
[09:19:18] <useless> FatPhil: back is for bacon sandwiches
[09:19:09] <drussell> A couple weeks later I'd saved up enough money to go buy my first 486 mobo for the FreeBSD machine... FP and everything :) The only 387 I had was a 16 MHz chip... I tried to run it in the 386/40 but couldn't get it to run with more than about a 50 MHz crystal (25 Mhz).. It gave some really strange math answers when I tried it at 33 Mhz... Even with a little heat sink glued to it LOL
[09:18:12] <useless> FatPhil: totally
[09:17:50] <FatPhil> streaky bacon and back bacon both have their merits
[09:17:13] <useless> damn, you're old
[09:16:38] <drussell> Yeah, it's defrosting right now :)
[09:16:23] <drussell> Heh, the 286 just booted off a single floppy and when Mosaic came out I used my Lantastic server to make it also be able to boot Windows 3.1 with Winsock added over the serial link... Took about 10 minutes to boot over serial but I could surf that new fangled http stuff on my bedroom 286 with no HDD... :)
[09:15:21] <useless> make the bacon, just dont blame us if you burn it
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[09:12:22] <useless> drussell: hehe
[09:10:19] <drussell> No, not me... Either KDE for things that are supposed to be pretty or an fvwm variant for real work :)
[09:09:42] <drussell> Not sure what it is with middle of the night bacon and IRC, but I remember one of the very first times I was on #C late at night because I had rigged up a 286 as a serial terminal in my bedroom to my FreeBSD 1 box (a 386/40) I ended up making bacon at about 4am due to the same kind of conversation :)
[09:08:30] <useless> (the window manager, not the drug, you crack heads)
[09:07:49] <useless> Sorry to get off food, but is anyone else using E?
[09:05:45] <useless> sounds it
[09:04:14] <crutchy> insane burger
[09:03:19] <useless> heh, yeah it happens. last night influenced my menu tonight
[09:02:44] <drussell> You guys are making me want to go defrost a lb of bacon and cook some up... Mmmm... Bacon! :)
[09:00:55] <drussell> Yeah, things can be a tad different depending on where you are :)
[09:00:45] <useless> and I hear you groaning ;)
[09:00:22] <useless> east
[09:00:17] <useless> I'm easy coast, so pretty much only deal with the Quebec and Newfies
[08:57:39] <useless> ahh
[08:57:33] <drussell> I'm in Calgary, personally...
[08:57:13] <useless> west coast .ca?
[08:56:46] <drussell> Normal bacon here is belly also
[08:56:06] <useless> .us (and cn, oddly enough) it's belly
[08:55:48] <drussell> Take a piece of pork other than the pork belly and cure and smoke like bacon bacon... :)
[08:55:33] <useless> in .uk/ie/au it's cut from the side
[08:55:01] <drussell> Could be but the concept is the same... Here it would be cut from the loin
[08:54:49] <useless> but close
[08:54:38] <useless> it's a different cut in .ca
[08:54:00] <drussell> In Canada we call that kind "back bacon", Americans call it "Canadian bacon"
[08:53:45] <useless> yours is a side cut, rasher. American cut is from the belly
[08:52:19] <crutchy> yummm
[08:51:58] <crutchy> i dunno what it's called but it's the roundish meaty bit
[08:51:46] <useless> inferior bacon ;)
[08:51:33] <useless> ahh, rashers
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[08:48:40] <crutchy> i just buy the good part of the bacon cos i'm lazy
[08:47:57] <crutchy> it's going to require some squishing to fit in my mouth methinks :-P
[08:47:12] <crutchy> i think it's the short cut bacon, rhindless
[08:47:03] <crutchy> i'm cooking the next burger with 13 pieces of bacon
[08:46:49] <useless> rashers
[08:46:41] <useless> streaky bacon or rachers?
[08:45:50] <crutchy> bun, bacon, bacon, tomato sauce, salt, bacon, bacon, tomato sauce, salt, bacon, bacon, bun
[08:44:06] <useless> from bottom: bun, beef, bacon, cheese, veg, condement, bun?
[08:43:10] <useless> crutchy: so I know you Aussies are upside down, but how do you layer a burger?
[08:38:18] <useless> kobach: I made bacon creamed collards and a bacon white gravy for the menu tonight
[08:37:17] <crutchy> dear kobach... i'm eating a bacon burger MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
[08:34:20] <mattie_p> hahaha
[08:34:15] <useless> damn you for mentioning that evil. not sleeping tonight
[08:34:02] <mattie_p> so we're stuck with what we got
[08:33:54] <useless> oh fuck no
[08:33:50] <mattie_p> this is the best place for it
[08:33:44] <mattie_p> we want feedback, we don't want a surveymonkey or whatever
[08:33:33] <useless> no arguement here
[08:33:24] <useless> hehehe
[08:33:11] <mattie_p> useless considering I'm insane for doing what I'm doing for free, then yes, at least I'm aware I'm insane, though
[08:32:43] <useless> mattie_p: so you are posting polls to get the communities feedback, but thinking doing aything based on the results is insane? ;)
[08:32:29] <FoobarBazbot_> And I don't really know what "only for idle rpg" even means, exactly; is that a vote for yes, but the only reason I'm voting yes is because of idlerpg? or actually to run our own irc network with only #idlenerds and #irpg on it?
[08:31:56] <mattie_p> as it is, everything is inconclusive so far, essentially the community dumped it back in our laps
[08:31:37] <mattie_p> if there were a clear consensus, that'd be nice
[08:31:19] <mattie_p> this is primarily to get a sense for what the community feels like
[08:31:07] <mattie_p> a gentle reminder: This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane.
[08:30:29] <useless> not trying to start anything, just an observation :)
[08:30:03] <FoobarBazbot_> yeah
[08:30:00] <SedBot> <FoobarBazbot_> but maybe limited options and comments are enough.
[08:30:00] <FoobarBazbot_> s/ / limited options and /2
[08:29:40] <useless> one of the above option could flip the yes/no
[08:29:21] <mattie_p> our IRC staff are going to be in there checking on the results
[08:29:13] <useless> only of you disregard the one/none/clod options though
[08:28:45] <FoobarBazbot_> but maybe comments are enough.
[08:28:23] <FoobarBazbot_> Like "yes/only for idlerpg", "don't care/I don't use IRC", etc.
[08:28:09] <useless> just saying, if you're going to use polls for serious topics, the options should be serious
[08:28:08] <mattie_p> anyway, doesn't look like the poll will be conclusive anyway, it is essentially a dead heat
[08:27:47] <FoobarBazbot_> another option is to have multiple flavors of yes, no, and don't care, clearly labelles so users know which way that will count.
[08:27:15] <useless> think we're on a similar page
[08:26:56] <FoobarBazbot_> Yeah, comments are good
[08:26:17] <useless> "I voted yes, but..."
[08:25:45] <useless> true, hence the comments
[08:25:25] <FoobarBazbot_> yeah, for the purposes of this decision, they're the same. But if people who _do_ use irc don't know enough to have an opinion, maybe communication is in order...
[08:24:49] <useless> For serious topics, yes-no-don't care should work
[08:24:36] -!- SoyCow5739 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:23:40] <useless> FoobarBazbot_: but both of those boil down to the same thing
[08:23:33] -!- millertime has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:22:57] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] mattie_p :D
[08:22:39] <mattie_p> ksuhku I only posted steps 1-6, 7-12 are top secret hush hush
[08:22:26] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] j/k sounds good
[08:22:11] <mattie_p> it may not be perfect, and in fact it is essentially deadlocked within an arbitrary margin of error
[08:22:01] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] soylentnews got a 12 step program now? :P
[08:21:50] <SedBot> <FoobarBazbot_> I think differentiating between "I don't use IRC" and "I don't know/care enough (for other reasons)" is interesting, if not important to the discussion, though the wording doesn't reflect that exactly.
[08:21:50] <FoobarBazbot_> s/,/ is interesting, if not important to the discussion,/
[08:21:38] <mattie_p> There was some discussion in #staff on the wording
[08:21:20] <FoobarBazbot_> I think differentiating between "I don't use IRC" and "I don't know/care enough (for other reasons)", though the wording doesn't reflect that exactly.
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[08:19:46] <useless> didn't know? yeah I could see that...to see who knows about services offered
[08:19:42] -!- SoyCow5050 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[08:18:34] <useless> one/none/clod need not be there
[08:18:01] <FoobarBazbot_> useless, I'm not sure that was the best choice of options, but it's important to have suitable answers for people who don't care, for one reason or another, so we can tell the difference between 75% consensus and 5%/15% with 80% not caring...
[08:17:45] <useless> and fuck all the damn bots in the irc channel
[08:17:10] * SedBot hurls a / at esalass!
[08:17:10] <useless> s/get/gauge
[08:16:22] <useless> if you're going to use polls to actually get community support, that is. And not just be silly afterthoughts like the /. polls
[08:14:50] <useless> mattie_p: just a though, maybe try to have the polls be better worded/directed? The irc one you linked to 6 out of the 8 answers don't matter to the question asked, and thus over 1/3 of the replies don't really matter
[08:12:05] <mattie_p> anyway, just about done spilling my guts in the story I posted
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[08:09:59] <useless> yeah, wasn't planning on that, more gaucho country
[08:09:53] <artificial> human females, beer.
[08:09:45] <Alberto> well depends of what you like ofc
[08:09:31] <Alberto> buenos aires is just a big city nothing cool
[08:09:22] <Alberto> south
[08:09:18] <Alberto> go suth
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[08:07:45] <useless> I have, .ar is one place on my visit list
[08:07:42] <Hyper> so the dns is fixed and SN is stable. anything else ?
[08:07:12] * Alberto HATES sun
[08:07:07] <Alberto> :D
[08:07:06] <Alberto> i like snow and cold places
[08:07:01] <Alberto> well check where i lived
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[08:02:39] <useless> bounce between here and NYC
[08:01:56] <useless> lots of snow
[08:01:46] <Alberto> Looks nice
[08:00:52] * Alberto googling Boston
[08:00:14] <useless> US-MA
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[07:59:59] <useless> Boston
[07:59:54] <Alberto> where are you from?
[07:59:25] <useless> eh, 70ish older than mine ;)
[07:57:07] <Alberto> it its, an city of 450+ years old
[07:57:05] <useless> litterally
[07:56:50] <useless> (looking at the pics on wiki) damn, that's some pretty land
[07:56:41] <Alberto> Well i used to live on Tierra del Fuego, at the end of South America
[07:55:29] <useless> sorry
[07:55:16] <useless> ok, need to disable capslock
[07:54:59] <useless> HH, WAY DOWN THERE
[07:54:19] <Alberto> San Cristobal de las Casas is my city
[07:54:11] <useless> nice cooks
[07:54:09] <Alberto> i live on chiapas
[07:54:06] <Alberto> Guatemala is amazing
[07:54:02] <Alberto> Love Puebla, nice city
[07:53:29] <useless> Alberto: friends here are from either Puebla or Guatamala
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[07:52:51] <Hyper> useless: that was from Babelfish :P
[07:52:15] <useless> Hyper: are you Korean? they love chicken butt
[07:51:15] <Hyper> Deja el pollo y cocinarlo agujero trasero
[07:51:14] <useless> mmm, Argentinian beef
[07:50:55] <Alberto> lived on Chile, Brazil and now Mexico
[07:50:44] <Alberto> born in Argentina
[07:50:21] <useless> Alberto: which country are you from?
[07:47:25] <useless> one I had to instruct that if you wanted to say chinga in english, it wasnt BEEEEEPP
[07:46:24] <useless> most of my friends used TV
[07:46:12] <Alberto> same for portuguese and italian
[07:46:05] <Alberto> no school learning btw
[07:45:57] <Alberto> is a mixture, i learned using internet and reading
[07:45:40] * Alberto english is crap
[07:45:26] <useless> like english, plenty of colloquialisms
[07:45:19] <Alberto> :D
[07:45:18] <Alberto> i created #SoyLent-ES for the spanish masses
[07:44:16] <useless> it's only vaguely like spoken
[07:43:44] <mattie_p> I've forgotten all my high school and college epaol
[07:42:49] <useless> prob way off, but I get away with it
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[07:42:21] <useless> no chinga el pollo
[07:41:21] <mattie_p> something pollo I imagine
[07:41:13] <mattie_p> useless: how would you say that in spanish?
[07:41:08] <useless> got to keep the line cooks in order
[07:40:44] <Alberto> hahahaha
[07:39:52] <useless> not really, just some kitchen spanish. "stop fucking the chicken and cook it, asshole"
[07:39:15] <useless> (fun new bug in the beta that shuts down your computer on load)
[07:39:05] <Alberto> GungnirSniper, damn T_T
[07:38:55] <Alberto> useless, hablas espaol cierto? #SoyLent-ES
[07:38:39] <useless> or running Portal2 on Steam
[07:37:59] <Alberto> GungnirSniper, a glass of wine and you will shutdown faster than a old slakware :P
[07:37:25] <Alberto> GungnirSniper, gn!
[07:36:30] <useless> eh, for the near future, the damage has already been done, I think
[07:35:45] <useless> nite
[07:35:32] <GungnirSniper> I'm going to try to sleep myself. Or watch TV until the THINK service goes into PAUSE.
[07:34:22] <Alberto> i been there, twice, learned from mistakes, never happened again
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[07:33:19] <Alberto> GungnirSniper, thank you
[07:33:06] <Alberto> Don't delay this anymore, it will damage the community for good. If you expect to grow and do something of the work already done then just move on right?
[07:32:36] <Alberto> Is common sense when you are on such projects.
[07:31:48] <GungnirSniper> Alberto is a man of great sense.
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[07:28:18] <Alberto> is bad to let a 3rd party have a % when you don't know the person itself
[07:27:15] <Alberto> it will work if we all contribute
[07:27:06] <Alberto> Doesn't matter if you call it BananaNews.org
[07:26:58] <Alberto> Mainly because the drama involved and second to secure the project.
[07:26:38] <Alberto> and done with the problem
[07:26:34] <Alberto> change the name
[07:26:31] <Alberto> word of advice
[07:26:23] <mattie_p> I'll be posting comments for a few minutes before head to bed, more in the morning, I bet
[07:26:01] <mattie_p> check the story, that's the status, in a nutshell
[07:25:45] <mattie_p> yeah, some other matt
[07:25:42] <Alberto> and where we are now?
[07:25:37] <mattie_p> oh, you know, drama and more drama
[07:25:35] <Alberto> so some other matt buy the % of Barrabas
[07:25:25] <Alberto> sup mattie_p
[07:25:20] <mattie_p> Hi Alberto
[07:25:14] <Alberto> hola damian
[07:25:04] <useless> hola Alberto
[07:24:44] <Alberto> sup sexy boys and girls
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[07:12:38] <mattie_p> back in a few, feel free to blast me in comments while I'm away
[07:10:35] <mattie_p> everyone, check the department and please do it
[07:10:24] <mattie_p> I saw your journal article and he might be interested, I know we've taken several of your posts
[07:10:21] <useless> for now... ;)
[07:10:07] * Konomi is glad the drama seems resolved
[07:09:50] <mattie_p> talk to LaminatorX the next time you see him
[07:09:39] <mattie_p> Unfortunately it requires someone to be an editor to preview articles at this point
[07:09:18] <GungnirSniper> I'd be happy to be a second set of eyes if you need in the future.
[07:08:38] <mattie_p> actually, very little in the way of staff on right now at all
[07:08:27] <mattie_p> no editors on
[07:08:12] <mattie_p> err, I fixed it
[07:08:06] <mattie_p> fix it
[07:05:29] <GungnirSniper> Monday, 9 March?
[07:05:22] <useless> in classic index, it there any way to pick sections to ignore?
[07:02:54] <useless> heh
[07:02:19] <mattie_p> too bad juggs is afk, I gave him a shout-out
[07:00:48] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - Status Update: 12 March 2014 - http://sylnt.us - knock-on-wood
[06:49:18] <artificial> Train Tracking lvl 6
[06:49:09] <artificial> lol
[06:47:50] <useless> later
[06:47:35] <NCommander> BBL
[06:47:35] <NCommander> Ok, I need to go hunt a wild train
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[06:42:49] <NCommander> From Alaska to Argengina
[06:42:44] <NCommander> But before SN became a thing, I was gearing up to drive the Pan-American Highway
[06:42:35] <useless> boston - San Fran and back many times
[06:42:30] <NCommander> kobach, I'll likely reclaim my car at some point. Its leased to a friend
[06:42:28] <kobach> my 2000 has 267k
[06:42:17] * Khyber has just hit over 186K on hiscar. '99 model.
[06:42:10] <kobach> texas > california
[06:41:58] <useless> loved the coast to coast drive
[06:41:57] * NCommander sold his truck at 150k miles; it was only six years old
[06:41:53] <kobach> fuck the coasts, i prefer north to south
[06:41:42] <NCommander> Plus to Alaska, Mexico, Newfoundland, and Key West
[06:41:30] * NCommander has driven cost to coast 7 times
[06:41:24] <NCommander> Meh
[06:41:16] <kobach> with a 45mpg car, that extends fly vs drive range greatly
[06:41:03] <useless> ^
[06:40:58] <kobach> so i fly as little as possible
[06:40:52] <kobach> i hate airports
[06:40:39] <NCommander> <3 frequent flier miles
[06:40:35] * NCommander has once managed to score a freebie ticket on first class singapore airlines
[06:40:20] <NCommander> Or if I scored an upgrade, relax in business
[06:40:19] <Khyber> And the stupid auto-updating map on the back of the headrest, and thesorelylacking choice of movies to stream
[06:40:13] <NCommander> I just sleep
[06:40:01] <NCommander> FoobarBazbot_, yup
[06:39:58] * Khyber hates flying overseas. Nothing but water and clouds to look at.
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[06:39:48] <FoobarBazbot_> NCommander, I assume you have Gurr's port of nethack?
[06:39:37] <kobach> yea where you didnt have to look at corn the whole time
[06:39:25] <NCommander> Which was a blast
[06:39:22] <NCommander> kobach, eh, I've done Amtrak from Miami to New York City via sleeper
[06:39:13] <kobach> where you get to look at corn for 6 fucking hours
[06:39:09] * NCommander notes Sarajavo was an incredible city
[06:39:05] <kobach> theyre not relaxing however, through the midwest
[06:38:56] <kobach> theyre relaxing in other countries
[06:38:55] <NCommander> From Slovina to Serbia, passing through Cortaria, and Bosina
[06:38:54] -!- MrBluze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[06:38:28] * NCommander once spent a week doing that through Eastern Europe
[06:38:20] * NCommander finds long international train trips extremely relaxing
[06:38:06] <NCommander> Just need to wait for the train
[06:38:00] <NCommander> Ok, nethack installed, accomdiations booked
[06:37:47] <NCommander> I do use tiles on the Android version because its otherwise impossible to see WTF you're doing
[06:37:33] * NCommander used to play the original rouge
[06:37:29] <NCommander> I'm a console player :-)
[06:36:50] <elf> have you seen these new tiles for nethack? They look pretty cool. http://opengameart.org
[06:36:05] <NCommander> Though Wizard might be fun (will help a LOT of the underworld mazes)
[06:35:49] <NCommander> Probably Valkire
[06:35:46] <NCommander> Debating what I wan to run as
[06:35:20] <NCommander> Rodney killed me before I made it to the Astral Plane
[06:35:11] * NCommander HAS gotten his hands on the amulet
[06:35:11] juggs is now known as juggs|afk
[06:34:35] <artificial> hahaha
[06:34:34] <kobach> rofl
[06:34:31] <MrBluze> back l8r
[06:34:28] <NCommander> and got nethack installed for the train trip
[06:34:22] * NCommander almost got this book
[06:34:09] <MrBluze> yeah i glimpsed at that on the way to a job at 3 in the moring
[06:34:08] <kobach> i really dont do anything other than keep spammers off irc lol
[06:33:54] <kobach> yea i didnt have to worry about any of the other crisis either
[06:33:47] <Hedonismbot> [ksuhku] \o/
[06:33:39] <MrBluze> no, no more crises
[06:33:34] <wjwlsn> pardon
[06:33:29] <kobach> ahh good, nothing i need to worry about then
[06:33:05] <MrBluze> name poll, some governance stuff nothing much big there, and discussion on failsafe etc
[06:33:04] * NCommander is litterially assembling his final iterarny as he goes along
[06:33:00] <kobach> less interesting then
[06:32:54] <kobach> oh ok
[06:32:51] <NCommander> kobach, in singapore
[06:32:44] <kobach> on the train?
[06:32:42] <MrBluze> but there was a bit of stuff decided today
[06:32:41] <kobach> interesting
[06:32:34] <NCommander> hrm
[06:32:33] <NCommander> Looks like I'm going to be dorming
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[06:32:29] <MrBluze> i gtg NCommander
[06:32:28] <artificial> drop bears = koalas?
[06:32:24] <useless> gah, sorry for the caps
[06:32:13] <useless> they ARE FINE, IT'S THE DROP BEARS YOU HAVE TO WATCH FOR
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[06:32:11] <kobach> watch out for wombats
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[06:32:09] <artificial> http://farm1.staticflickr.com
[06:32:07] * NCommander notes wombats are tasty
[06:32:06] <kobach> yea kangaroos will just kick you
[06:32:02] <MrBluze> they start with your shoes
[06:31:56] <MrBluze> more like you'll get eaten by a wombat
[06:31:43] <NCommander> I dunno, if I went to oz, I might get eaten by a kangaroo
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[06:31:35] <MrBluze> yyyup
[06:31:20] <kobach> MrBluze: true, its the closest he'll be for a while
[06:31:19] <MrBluze> yeah ..
[06:31:16] * artificial holds up fingers
[06:31:15] <NCommander> MrBluze, rofl
[06:31:13] <artificial> that's like "this much" on the map
[06:31:09] <kobach> lol
[06:31:04] <MrBluze> im just 5000km away
[06:30:58] <artificial> NCommander: world traveller
[06:30:58] <MrBluze> u could drop by mate
[06:30:57] * kobach slaps NCommander
[06:30:50] * NCommander needs to get his head cleared out
[06:30:45] <MrBluze> oh
[06:30:45] <NCommander> Train to Singapore leaves in 45 minutes
[06:30:42] <artificial> sounds like a job for /dev/random
[06:30:38] * NCommander is sitting on the floor of a train station
[06:30:35] <MrBluze> hey NCommander
[06:30:32] <MrBluze> bai bai
[06:30:30] <NCommander> Seems oddly quiet
[06:30:29] <MrBluze> i'd come over and push your car if i knew the way
[06:30:29] <Konomi> bai ~
[06:30:23] <useless> later
[06:30:21] <MrBluze> good luck Konomi
[06:30:17] <MrBluze> seeya :)
[06:30:15] <MrBluze> a flood
[06:30:13] <MrBluze> lol its a lot
[06:30:05] <kobach> yea nvm too much to read idc
[06:29:49] <MrBluze> back later .. i forgot my charger so my battery is short.. will be brief this evening methinks
[06:29:39] <MrBluze> :)
[06:29:37] <MrBluze> cheers
[06:29:29] <kobach> oh ill go read then while everyone else is quiet
[06:29:28] <MrBluze> and its all good stuff
[06:29:19] <MrBluze> in #staff we decided heaps of stuff
[06:29:13] <kobach> IM STILL AWAKE
[06:29:08] <kobach> BORING
[06:29:05] <kobach> boring
[06:29:01] <MrBluze> today was a good day (TM)
[06:28:52] <MrBluze> yeah i gtg too
[06:28:36] <Konomi> okay I think I vented enough food time and then I'll try to perfect a way to erase this day from my memory
[06:28:19] <MrBluze> but make sure it doesnt get wet or it trips an e-fuse
[06:28:06] <MrBluze> u pay someone else to set fire to it
[06:27:54] <juggs> You set fire to it and walk of quickly hoping no cctv is in the area
[06:27:44] <MrBluze> after opening and closing every door
[06:27:41] <useless> you're driving it wrong
[06:27:37] <BadCoderFinger> That's the only thing I don't like about the bike, the stupid firmware.
[06:27:28] <MrBluze> Konomi: - u get out of the car, get back in again, and try to start it
[06:27:25] <kobach> or that
[06:27:19] <juggs> You pay the dealer $3000
[06:27:14] <Konomi> iCar
[06:27:07] <kobach> get a new ecu
[06:26:59] <Konomi> "hi I flashed my car and now it wont' boot anymore what do I do?"
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[06:26:47] <MrBluze> except maybe piezo electric injectors.. big woop - its a liability mostly
[06:26:41] <kobach> unless its a performance vehicle
[06:26:30] <kobach> rofl @ paying more than $20 for software on a gasser
[06:26:29] <MrBluze> there's very little new tech in them
[06:26:24] <MrBluze> yeah tbh cars should be open source by now
[06:26:15] <MrBluze> lol
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[06:26:08] <Konomi> what could go wrong
[06:26:04] <Konomi> car firmware
[06:25:40] <juggs> Konomi, no car is reliable without maintenance. There's no such thing as a car that goes and goes with out it. Want to DIY - get an older car and learn to maintain it. Get a new car - if you even can diy it prepare to shell out for a CANBUS107.1.1-OCBC17.3-BLAH-MFG/SPECIFIC-PIN-out interlink and software. (Or something like).
[06:25:39] <Konomi> they're sight hazards
[06:25:36] <MrBluze> and room for a shag in the back if needed
[06:25:35] <useless> heh, miss my truck
[06:25:34] <Konomi> 4x4 are not cars
[06:25:32] <kobach> lol
[06:25:22] <MrBluze> if the park is tight, just drive up the gutter
[06:25:10] <MrBluze> push start if it doesnt go
[06:24:44] <MrBluze> room for a spare battery, no need for a hoist to change oil, u just lie under it
[06:24:33] <MrBluze> Konomi: .. if u get a real off-road 4x4 u have a dream car
[06:24:25] <Konomi> if my car was a coding project it would be shot
[06:24:14] <Konomi> two words that shall never meet
[06:24:09] <Konomi> car and modular
[06:23:57] <MrBluze> and lets put razor blades in the path of the opening to the oil filter
[06:23:42] <MrBluze> yep
[06:23:39] <Konomi> the end
[06:23:38] <Konomi> LETS MAKE THIS SHIT AS COMPLEX AS POSSIBLE TO FIX
[06:23:28] <Konomi> and it seems the design idea was
[06:23:24] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, a senate committee.
[06:23:24] <Konomi> I have been around a lot of old cars
[06:23:18] <Konomi> well
[06:23:07] <MrBluze> honestly those cars were designed by a committee or something
[06:22:48] <kobach> lol
[06:22:40] <MrBluze> and the freakin bimetallic strip that controls the coolant fails CLOSED => blown head gaskett
[06:22:28] <kobach> my trucks cooling fan was 3'
[06:22:23] <Konomi> p;lease don't say stuff like that if the battery is gone I am going to flip a table
[06:22:07] <useless> hehe
[06:22:03] <kobach> lol
[06:22:02] <MrBluze> cause its cooling system is shyte
[06:21:59] <Konomi> my knowledge of cars right there
[06:21:55] <MrBluze> lol Konomi and huuge fans on it that blow your batteries on a hot day
[06:21:35] <Konomi> with a huge single belt that wraps around everything
[06:21:30] <MrBluze> otherwise mitsubishi make reasonable 4x4's for money - not as good as toyota but for the money they are better
[06:21:28] <Konomi> this thing has an engine
[06:21:09] <Konomi> good thing I tpye with my nails so this bandaid doesn;t mess up my typing
[06:21:08] <MrBluze> subaru has a boxer engine - bloody fantastic
[06:20:37] <Konomi> cause they kinda looked like a lunch box
[06:20:34] <kobach> also, the engine was an international, not a ford
[06:20:33] <MrBluze> when i think of anything like that i think.. bad marriage
[06:20:30] <Konomi> or lunch box car
[06:20:21] <Konomi> when I think ford I think no door handles
[06:20:19] <MrBluze> piece of crud
[06:20:17] <kobach> i liked my ford, but it was a truck, so it doesnt count
[06:20:16] <MrBluze> yeah
[06:20:10] <Konomi> did your door handles fall off
[06:20:08] <MrBluze> cost more to repair than petrol
[06:20:04] <MrBluze> never again
[06:20:00] <MrBluze> i had a ford
[06:19:50] <kobach> lol dont worry theres plenty of them here(under a different badge)
[06:19:35] <Konomi> you you be quiet you ;_;
[06:19:33] <useless> hehe
[06:19:24] <kobach> rofl i KNEW It was going to be some shitbox holden
[06:19:23] <MrBluze> unfortunately theres a reason they dont sell as many of those as thye'd like
[06:19:08] <MrBluze> oh yeah
[06:19:01] <Konomi> australian car
[06:18:57] <Konomi> some 1992 commodore thing
[06:18:49] <MrBluze> what one is yours Konomi
[06:18:44] <kobach> has put in $500 over the last 130k
[06:18:34] <Konomi> but I think I got done with a lemon
[06:18:32] <kobach> friend of mine bought one for $500
[06:18:27] <Konomi> this car was supposed to be reliable
[06:18:22] <MrBluze> yeah they just go and go (recurring)
[06:18:16] <Titanium> buy a new car, it works for a while
[06:18:11] <kobach> best cheap cars ever IMO
[06:18:02] <kobach> nice, my brother has an impreza
[06:17:52] <MrBluze> i got a schoobydoo forester
[06:17:43] <MrBluze> yeah they not ugly
[06:17:42] <kobach> 2000
[06:17:35] <kobach> Jetta
[06:17:30] <MrBluze> what is yours kobach
[06:17:19] <kobach> same, but mines not ugly
[06:17:12] <MrBluze> which are usually ugly
[06:17:09] <MrBluze> i just buy reliable cars
[06:17:03] * MrBluze nods
[06:16:26] <Konomi> I really really really HATE cars
[06:16:15] <Konomi> it just sucks I had to cancel an appointment and I was going to go buy some bras all that is now ruined
[06:14:54] <useless> no, you're the one cutting yourself
[06:14:51] <Konomi> etc etc
[06:14:49] <MrBluze> FoobarBazbot_: has the answers
[06:14:48] <Konomi> mechanic tells me gear box is slipping needs a service bad haven't found a replacement gearbox
[06:14:40] <MrBluze> black on black?
[06:14:29] <Konomi> my car is just emo land atm
[06:14:14] <Konomi> idk my car keys were conviently on top of them so I reached for them and somehow got cut
[06:14:10] <FoobarBazbot_> juggs: van deGraaf generator
[06:14:01] <MrBluze> alternator generates pulse wave 15v or therabouts and this is smoothed to charge the battery
[06:13:35] <Konomi> come inside and injure yourself on your own desk
[06:13:30] <juggs> one*
[06:13:28] <Konomi> it's like do extremely highly likely thing to get a cut, get no cut
[06:13:24] <juggs> how does on charge an alternator?
[06:13:21] <useless> Konomi: why were there scissors on the bed?
[06:13:18] <MrBluze> i have a jump-start battery thing for my car
[06:13:13] <Konomi> you know the last time I injured myself it was on my desk?
[06:12:57] <Konomi> MrBluze: I think my alternator is going it needs a proper charge
[06:12:54] <juggs> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[06:12:38] <FoobarBazbot> IRC DOES TOO HAVE VOLUME
[06:12:36] <Konomi> karma: haha screw you >.<
[06:12:34] <MrBluze> ouch
[06:12:24] <Konomi> walk inside put hand on bed cut myself with the scissors
[06:12:17] <MrBluze> Konomi: .. jumper leads
[06:12:17] <Konomi> not a single sceatch
[06:12:14] <Konomi> put it on the charger at the back door
[06:12:02] <Konomi> take the batterty out with the socket set
[06:11:58] <useless> heya Konomi
[06:11:57] <Konomi> flat car battery, get a taxi get a socket set and b attery charger
[06:11:57] <MrBluze> i dont like going outside, 3D gives me headaches
[06:11:49] <mattie_p> welcome back, Konomi
[06:11:38] <Konomi> urk
[06:11:30] <useless> must be one of those new fangled GUI programs
[06:11:21] <MrBluze> no, cause it only has two dimensions
[06:11:07] <juggs> irc has volume?
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[06:05:04] <drcoolbp> sure
[06:05:01] <mattie_p> pm?
[06:05:01] <drcoolbp> nah, volume is still super-low
[06:04:49] <mattie_p> drcoolbp I know, I need to remove some of those
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[06:04:42] <drcoolbp> volunteer@sn isn't set up yet.....
[06:04:31] <drcoolbp> mattie_p I'm not even sure how many redirects go to me at this point...
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[06:02:57] <juggs> probably the cat
[06:02:26] <mattie_p> well, they didn't have to be done this second, but I appreciate the dedication
[06:02:08] <drcoolbp> as per your email sir.
[06:02:02] <drcoolbp> finishing up my duties
[06:01:51] <mattie_p> drcoolbp, I thought you were going to sleep?
[06:01:10] <drcoolbp> hahaha
[06:00:42] <mattie_p> he's afk now anyway
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[05:59:29] <juggs> I guess he was trying to relate to us the entire contents of 1984 in one hit
[05:59:08] <GungnirSniper> Except his own banhammer kicked him.
[05:59:05] <BadCoderFinger> Heh, looks that way!
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[05:58:47] <useless> someone wants us to notice he logged in
[05:58:43] <GungnirSniper> Weird, you'd think someone who can handle perl can handle irc.
[05:58:20] <FoobarBazbot> hmmm....
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[05:58:02] <useless> or at least spring for drinks and dinner first
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[05:57:41] <juggs> I love you too FoobarBazbot. Now stop grabbing.
[05:56:59] <useless> kinky!
[05:56:24] <Hedonismbot> Added quote 24
[05:56:24] <FoobarBazbot> !grab juggs
[05:56:22] <mattie_p> I mean, I am writing a status update right now
[05:56:05] <mattie_p> I'd go through them but I'm supposed to be writing a status update right now
[05:55:55] <BadCoderFinger> The real travesty is not having a quote 42. It would have to be Monty Python, though, just to annoy the serious nerds.
[05:55:46] <juggs> any minute now.... someone will say something dumb that sees them in the saddle....
[05:55:05] * juggs watches the tumbleweeds
[05:54:50] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[05:54:45] <juggs> give it time.........
[05:54:29] <BadCoderFinger> Well, that was a rallying cry of zero.
[05:53:51] <juggs> hands up for who volunteers to be the sordid quote wrangler!
[05:52:54] <mattie_p> well, now we've got to review all of them
[05:51:50] <drcoolbp> hahah
[05:48:21] <holycause> heh heh
[05:48:06] <Hedonismbot> Quote 23 - <FatPhil> I just tried to set via ssh my g/f's desktop image to that bacon in order to taunt her, but by command didn't work, and I ended up with it as my background image instead
[05:48:06] <holycause> !quote 23
[05:47:59] <Hedonismbot> Can't find quote 26
[05:47:59] <holycause> !quote 26
[05:47:58] <useless> wow, that's a keeper
[05:47:35] <Hedonismbot> Quote 20 - <auto_def> xlefay: huh?
[05:47:35] <holycause> !quote 20
[05:47:24] <Hedonismbot> Can't find quote 32
[05:47:24] <holycause> !quote 32
[05:46:56] <Khyber> How the fuck did I even remember that?
[05:46:32] <Hedonismbot> Quote 17 - <Khyber> backed by physical asses, more like it.
[05:46:32] <Khyber> !quote 17
[05:36:59] <mattie_p> anyway, I need to get on that status update
[05:34:05] <mattie_p> I've learned how to prevent quoting like that, but its pretty funny
[05:33:19] <juggs> thank $deity for that - thought you may be having some kind of fit near a keyboard
[05:32:13] <mattie_p> I knew it was there somewhere
[05:32:01] <mattie_p> there we go
[05:31:56] <Hedonismbot> Quote 7 - <mattie_p> 1 is an ongoing effort, and will not cease
[05:31:56] <mattie_p> !quote 7
[05:31:53] <Hedonismbot> Quote 6 - <soulde> I have friends that are better bots than Bender
[05:31:53] <mattie_p> !quote 6
[05:31:51] <Hedonismbot> Quote 5 - <hax0rz> Hyper: go ahead, whatever your fetish is
[05:31:51] <mattie_p> !quote 5
[05:31:50] <Hedonismbot> Quote 4 - <xlefay> soulde: you can always change it :P
[05:31:50] <mattie_p> !quote 4
[05:31:48] <Hedonismbot> Quote 3 - <soulde> :D
[05:31:48] <mattie_p> !quote 3
[05:31:45] <Hedonismbot> Quote 2 - <hax0rz> highlights, gold, they shine
[05:31:45] <mattie_p> !quote 2
[05:31:42] <Hedonismbot> Quote 1 - <NCommander> DarkMorph, because whenever I have to touch hashref's I want to stab my eyes out
[05:31:42] <mattie_p> !quote 1
[05:31:39] <useless> good idea
[05:31:36] <useless> hehe
[05:31:32] <juggs> could*
[05:31:25] <juggs> ahh... I'm guessing 1) good be in progress a while :D
[05:30:41] <Hedonismbot> todo for mattiep: 1) drink 2) article voting system 3) bug report on delayed posting of polls 4) pass dev email to paulej72 5) contact matt 6) email janrinok
[05:30:41] <mattie_p> !todo
[05:30:39] <mattie_p> I've been kind of busy today and forgot
[05:30:17] <juggs> just call me Lt. Postit !
[05:29:47] <mattie_p> I need to provide a status update on that
[05:29:40] <mattie_p> hey, thanks for the reminder
[05:28:41] <juggs> I don't know what to call it, the last I saw was mattie's SN post with "looks to be a benevolent benefactor from the community". Time will reveal all.
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[05:24:35] <BadCoderFinger> Heh, if you call it that, I suppose.
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[05:23:17] <juggs> still the mysterious benevolence?
[05:22:20] <BadCoderFinger> Nothing new.
[05:21:52] <juggs> what news of our illustrious new leader?
[05:21:34] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - Snowden Denounces Feinstein, Cites 'Merkel Effect' - http://sylnt.us - good-for-the-goose
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[05:19:48] <juggs> hola lentils
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[04:56:28] <Khyber> Speaking of MIDI - http://www.musicrobot.com Have some 90s nostalgia
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[04:52:45] <BadCoderFinger> http://programming-motherfucker.com <- not very safe for work
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[04:52:14] <SpallsHurgenson> okay, naked time!
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[04:46:33] <Landon> oh good god, we need that TLD
[04:46:30] <Landon> http://emacs.sexy
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[04:39:38] <Titanium> its SFW i promise :)
[04:39:35] <Landon> bytram: google khan academy :)
[04:39:30] <Titanium> :)
[04:39:28] <Titanium> http://motherfuckingwebsite.com
[04:38:44] <Landon> heh, I didn't realize Khan Academy had gamification
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[04:37:17] <Ethanol-fueled> When you're too cheap and technically resourceful to buy the overpriced sheet music.
[04:37:10] <BadCoderFinger> Ugh.
[04:36:59] <Titanium> the ways things are going soon there might not even be websites anymore, just web applications that happen to have a url :)
[04:36:51] <Ethanol-fueled> Fuck yeah. Final Fantasy MIDI webrings.
[04:36:26] <Titanium> those were the days :)
[04:36:22] <Titanium> do they still do web rings?
[04:35:37] <Titanium> add networks are spawn of satan
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[04:35:29] <BadCoderFinger> All the more reason to block ads.
[04:35:18] <Landon> :)
[04:35:17] <Landon> (one that can tailor for the content of the site)
[04:35:15] <Titanium> the lack of experience shows ;)
[04:34:59] <Landon> I have no experience in this area, but I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't use an established ad network
[04:34:58] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] genius
[04:34:57] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] titanium, ad is short for advertisement, there is no 2nd d in advertisement
[04:34:50] <useless> valinux used to do that
[04:34:36] <useless> haven't seen that in a while
[04:34:32] <Titanium> do peopel do this anymore?
[04:34:26] <Titanium> they give you money and you put their add on your site
[04:34:16] <Titanium> like lets say $company wants to advertise $product
[04:33:58] <Titanium> no
[04:33:58] <useless> hahaha
[04:33:53] <Landon> are you suggesting we join a web circle?
[04:33:42] <Titanium> or does this not happen anymore
[04:33:34] <Titanium> are there any sites that get sponsors and put an add in the site?
[04:32:52] <Titanium> yeah, i wont notice either
[04:32:39] <BadCoderFinger> Night NezSez!
[04:32:24] <BadCoderFinger> I'm not bothered if they put ads up. I use adblock.
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[04:32:08] <NezSez> okay nighters all, thnx for conversation
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[04:30:09] <Titanium> let them sort it out
[04:29:58] <Titanium> if they are arguing over who gets to put adds on the site and make money, fuck them
[04:29:45] <Titanium> if the site only costs $300 a month to run... il pay for it if nobody else will
[04:29:12] <NezSez> there has been some of that goin on the last few days here :)
[04:29:10] <BadCoderFinger> They'll sort it out eventually.
[04:28:36] <Titanium> assumign they are acting like a toddler
[04:28:24] <Titanium> other than to tell someone go fuck yoruself
[04:28:17] <Titanium> i refuse to participate in drama
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[04:27:36] <NezSez> not when ppl want that specific domain it isn't nothing, missed the drama I take it
[04:27:31] <BadCoderFinger> There's a lot of that.
[04:26:58] <Titanium> anyways, they dont look for another vendoe, they talk to sales people who talk to your boss's boss's boss's boss's boss and then they ask WTF you said that for :)
[04:26:02] <Titanium> you can switch in minutes...
[04:25:49] <Titanium> owning a domain is nothing
[04:25:35] <NezSez> gotta go soon...no new news about "matt" the domain owner I take it?
[04:24:43] <Titanium> if you ask them to reboot it and see if the problem comes back... they start buying routers from another vendor
[04:23:15] <bryan> GungnirSniper: sup?
[04:23:06] <Titanium> when people spend $1m per router... they expect at least this so it can be supported
[04:22:36] <Titanium> sadly, i needed more
[04:22:28] <BadCoderFinger> Seems a bit like overkill.
[04:21:50] <Titanium> for example with 100s of interfaces there are logs that show all the states each phy goes through when it does anything
[04:20:31] <Titanium> but thats totally different as they get dumped in a file
[04:20:18] <Titanium> and then there is also debug logs ontop of that
[04:20:06] <Titanium> we can re-configure the size of and enable/disable any logs at runtime
[04:19:28] <Landon> it's actually a shame storage is so cheap, because "log leaks" inevitably hit the customer
[04:19:25] <Titanium> less than you would think
[04:19:17] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, a bit, heh
[04:19:06] <Titanium> at least a little bit
[04:19:03] <Titanium> but routers are different from servers
[04:18:43] <Titanium> all stored in memory
[04:18:39] <Titanium> we have hundreds of logfiles
[04:18:24] <Landon> turns out they've had kernel modules with full debugging on, filled up /var/ over the period of weeks
[04:18:06] <Landon> so many "my box doesn't work!?!?!" at work..
[04:17:52] <Landon> yep
[04:17:48] <Titanium> and those arent the most detailed :)
[04:17:36] <Titanium> we have logs that with a 300 MB buffer will rollover in 30 seconds
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[04:17:02] <Titanium> but 'eveything'
[04:16:59] <Titanium> not nearly as much as the stuff i work with at work
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[04:16:45] <Titanium> i log 'everything'
[04:16:37] <Landon> well, that's a step in the right direction :P
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[04:16:24] <Titanium> i just use log4j instead :)
[04:16:13] <Landon> impossible because its debug to then
[04:16:12] <Titanium> no it doesnt
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[04:15:49] <Landon> the good thing about multithreading is it makes newbie programmers graduate from print-debugging :)
[04:15:48] <BadCoderFinger> Ever looked at OpenMP?
[04:14:32] <Titanium> im too terrified to screw it up... i waste like a day looking for threading bugs :(
[04:14:17] <Titanium> but it takes a lot longer to write stuff
[04:14:13] <BadCoderFinger> Heh!
[04:14:02] <Titanium> i dont screw it up in my code
[04:13:55] <Titanium> visual basic is fast because you can add inline assembler
[04:13:42] <BadCoderFinger> Most people screw up threading anyway, so not much incentive.
[04:13:33] <Titanium> using c modules... is not a reason python is fast
[04:13:20] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, but you have to be careful with it.
[04:11:46] <BadCoderFinger> A bit like the big kernel lock in BSD, although they've been working to get rid of it.
[04:11:44] <Landon> BadCoderFinger: there is, if you primarily use C modules iirc
[04:11:14] <Titanium> GIL is a big reson EvE Online fleet battles were limited to 1-2k pilots shooting at each other at a time :(
[04:11:14] <NezSez> landon: ah, I did not know that
[04:10:58] <BadCoderFinger> So no benefit to threading.
[04:10:53] <NezSez> yeah ruby apparently lets you "monkey patch" objects at runtime
[04:10:46] <Landon> every thread has to acquire the lock to run
[04:10:38] <Landon> NezSez: global interpreter lock, basically nullifies threading in python
[04:10:34] <Titanium> only one thread can run at once in python
[04:10:25] <Titanium> i prefer to recycle objects :)
[04:10:24] <NezSez> landon: what is GIL?
[04:10:14] <NezSez> yes setup is expensive
[04:10:09] <Titanium> usually
[04:10:06] <Titanium> if you can do that... its abotu as fast as c
[04:09:59] <Titanium> you have to make sure you avoid creating new objects
[04:09:50] <Landon> that damn GIL
[04:09:48] <Landon> awww, that's the one thing I dislike about python
[04:09:35] <NezSez> Titanium: I had a friend at sun on the glassfish thing (later at oracle) and according to him you can actually get very good perf from java
[04:08:53] <Titanium> and it also officially supports muiltithreading
[04:08:36] <NezSez> but I was shocked that clisp does as well as it did
[04:08:34] <Titanium> i like java, it 'can' be pretty good performance
[04:08:15] <NezSez> D does pretty good
[04:08:02] <NezSez> c is still king of the hill; I doubt many would dispute that
[04:07:34] <NezSez> I saw some stats about clisp's performance and it was actually pretty fast compared to most langs
[04:07:30] <BadCoderFinger> When I need performance, I hit the C compiler.
[04:07:15] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, it's a utility language.
[04:06:55] <NezSez> i heard the runtime performance of ruby was pretty slow, compared to current python for example
[04:05:28] <BadCoderFinger> Heh, it's a great little language. I use it for my email in my sig.
[04:05:27] <Titanium> the guy was very smart
[04:05:19] <NezSez> that's impressive
[04:05:08] <Titanium> they also hooked the graphics drivers and the code ran from there ;)
[04:04:34] <NezSez> badcoder: LOL
[04:04:18] <Titanium> hacks for games
[04:04:12] <NezSez> Titanium: really? What did he do, or what services did his biz provide?
[04:04:12] <Titanium> and then run that
[04:04:10] <Titanium> part of their DRM was re-writing the code in a new esoteric language, one that represented a simple machine language set
[04:03:27] <NezSez> landon: but for me, it reminds me of fortran77 <yikes>
[04:03:15] <Titanium> i know a guy that actually built a business around one of these esoteric programming languages :)
[04:03:00] <BadCoderFinger> Befunge is like a 2D version of brainfuck.
[04:02:58] <NezSez> landon: we used python/numpy/scipy with hadoop/mahout for genome sequencing; none of that team minded the whitespace
[04:01:53] <Landon> NezSez: I recommend looking up Malbolge too
[04:01:50] <NezSez> was it for some RPG game?
[04:01:10] <NezSez> someone else today told me about befunge, I'd never heard of it
[04:01:10] <Titanium> there are also those turing complete languages that only have a single instruction :)
[04:00:45] <BadCoderFinger> Befunge is a personal favorite.
[04:00:32] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - You Can Help Find the Missing Plane - http://sylnt.us - many-eyes-make-all-bugs-shallow-sort-of-thing
[04:00:31] <Titanium> whitespace >> brainfuck >> verilog >> c >> all else
[04:00:29] <Landon> I don't know anyone that's done a non-trivial program and kept complaining however
[04:00:19] <Landon> hehe, I used to complain about python's whitespace when I was first introduced to it
[04:00:17] <BadCoderFinger> I like perl because I can write it a lot like I write C. But ruby is a tad more legible.
[04:00:14] <NezSez> yeah, BF, Cow, lotso funny esoteric langs
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[03:59:53] <NezSez> I ask because, at this point I know little about it
[03:59:43] <BadCoderFinger> Heh! There's an esoteric language that consists entirely of whitespace.
[03:59:26] <NezSez> so apart from the lambdas, what do you like about ruby?
[03:58:35] <NezSez> it's all that damn whitespace!
[03:58:17] <NezSez> LOL
[03:58:02] <BadCoderFinger> Plus it seems like any program in python requires a few srceens (and I use a tiny font!) of boilerplate for anything more trivial than "Hello world."
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[03:57:29] <NezSez> I would consider playing with ada, but if i was gonna do that I'd rather check out Erlang
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[03:56:46] <NezSez> I've never coded in cobol; I don't think I've even read any cobol code (maybe I saw some in the 80's or something)
[03:56:00] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, I will never admit to using COBOL in the past, but that's what the indentation thing reminds me of.
[03:55:15] <NezSez> and python, but the whole whitespace/indent thing turns me off
[03:54:33] <NezSez> i played briefly with F#.....it just isn't getting enough traction for serious consideration though
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[03:53:59] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, but I just can't get into c#
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[03:53:44] <NezSez> yeah i read about newlisp but haven't played with it
[03:53:33] <NezSez> c# can support a functional style too
[03:53:29] <BadCoderFinger> NewLisp is fun and easy.
[03:52:57] <BadCoderFinger> A bit with Lisp, but nothing much else.
[03:52:24] <NezSez> badcoderF: if you like lambdas, have you played with lisp/ocaml/haskell/f# etc any?
[03:52:00] <wjwlsn> i
[03:51:50] <wjwlsn> west
[03:51:45] <Cmn32480> Yeah about 20min south of the airport
[03:51:43] <Khyber> Fuck Memphis
[03:51:38] <BadCoderFinger> Visit the gambling boats, heh!
[03:51:19] <BadCoderFinger> Oh, south.
[03:51:08] <BadCoderFinger> West Memphis?
[03:50:41] <Cmn32480> Actually I will be across the border in Mississippi. Memphis was a better choice. And easier to spell!
[03:50:14] <BadCoderFinger> There.
[03:50:10] <Hedonismbot> karma - memphis: -4
[03:50:10] <BadCoderFinger> Memphis--
[03:50:05] <BadCoderFinger> Dangit. Bot not listening.
[03:50:03] <NezSez> LOL
[03:49:49] <BadCoderFinger> Ugh! Memphis--
[03:49:35] <BadCoderFinger> C++0x095-chupacabra or something horrific like that.
[03:48:32] <NezSez> badcoder: is this the c0++ thing or c11 whatever they are calling it
[03:48:29] <Cmn32480> At least Memphis a a decent town,
[03:48:14] <BadCoderFinger> Yeah, travelling bites.
[03:47:45] <NezSez> via con dios amigo
[03:47:36] <NezSez> LOL
[03:47:29] <Cmn32480> OK. I will check in again tomorrow night. This travelling to make a living shit sucks.
[03:47:22] <NezSez> cmn: a whois on the domain showed an email with okinawinwarrior or something like that
[03:47:00] <Cmn32480> Nuts.
[03:46:56] <BadCoderFinger> Even the new C++ standard has them, but the syntax is ugh.
[03:46:47] <NezSez> cmn: none that I heard
[03:46:23] <Cmn32480> Quick question... any updates in the last 24 hours? I been afk all day.
[03:46:20] <NezSez> lotta langs support lambda/anon funcs nowdays
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[03:45:49] <NezSez> lambdas are convienent ( how do you spell that?)
[03:45:22] <NezSez> I just started looking at ruby recently (for no good reason)
[03:45:20] <BadCoderFinger> I like the lambdas in ruby.
[03:45:03] <NezSez> yeah that happens :)
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[03:44:55] <NezSez> LOL
[03:44:48] <BadCoderFinger> It started as bash, then perl, now ruby.
[03:44:34] <NezSez> ah cool, what lang did you use?
[03:44:24] <BadCoderFinger> Yep.
[03:44:21] <NezSez> did you write the tool?
[03:43:56] <BadCoderFinger> Not bad. Tweaking my firewall tool.
[03:43:38] <NezSez> e tu?
[03:43:33] <NezSez> it's going very slow in here at least :)
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[03:43:11] <BadCoderFinger> How's it going, guys?
[03:42:58] <NezSez> yo bad
[03:42:51] <BadCoderFinger> Yo
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[03:41:42] <NezSez> true, although now I think it means smart enough to collect any data on you and phone home
[03:41:08] <Konomi> when they say smart they generally mean they're trying to make the software smart enough to be used by idiots
[03:40:55] <NezSez> kore wa non desu ka?!
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[03:40:29] <NezSez> software wise I mean
[03:40:22] <Konomi> smart is just a joke on you
[03:40:18] <NezSez> the samsung hd surround sys is even worse
[03:39:50] <NezSez> my samsung smart tv is gawd awful
[03:39:22] <NezSez> oh arch/platform doesn't matter; it's the software <sigh>
[03:38:58] <fx_68> side. uggghhh
[03:38:40] <fx_68> dark aide of the slash
[03:38:26] <Konomi> you using a mac?
[03:38:09] * NezSez rimshot
[03:37:56] <NezSez> shebang.org just isn't right
[03:37:37] <NezSez> if my car was as reliable as most of the software I use, I'd be dead :)
[03:37:34] <drussell> catapult
[03:37:33] <bryan> drussell: that'd be a cool one
[03:37:18] <Konomi> the car hasn't been thrown yet cause I haven't figured a way to do so grrr
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[03:36:56] <Konomi> if my pc was as reliable as my car I'd have tossed it out a window -.-
[03:36:24] <drussell> or .net or .whatever :)
[03:36:21] <NezSez> konomi hates kuruma!
[03:34:50] <drussell> hashbang.org is my favorite... Did anyone ever manage to contact whoever owns it?
[03:34:24] * Konomi hates cars
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[03:17:54] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] has the new owner identified himself? Is our only developer, NCommander on board?
[03:13:52] <SpallsHurgenson> awww, I wanted hotgrits
[03:12:50] <prospectacle> looks like it's heading towards either nerdcard.net or dailybacon.com
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[03:07:46] <SpallsHurgenson> not the way I remember it
[03:07:44] <NezSez> sony would autodetect the nvidia and promptly install the wrong drivers :)
[03:07:24] <erik> is that how the big bang happened?
[03:07:23] <useless> very strange babies
[03:07:02] <SpallsHurgenson> the end of the universe as we know it?
[03:06:44] <erik> I wonder what would happen if you pair up a P4 and an Nvidia 480GTX card
[03:06:10] <useless> yep
[03:06:00] <NezSez> slow night eh?
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[03:04:16] <erik> Netburst ftw
[03:03:36] <GungnirSniper> It's not that cold, you only need one Pentium 4.
[03:00:03] <SpallsHurgenson> it was such a nice warm day today... but now it is cold again. time to turn on the other computers again, I guess
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[02:56:51] xlefay changed topic of #Soylent to: SoylentNews is LIVE people, so spread the word! https://soylentnews.org | Wiki: http://sylnt.us | Forums: http://sylnt.us | Code: http://sylnt.us | Got bugs? http://sylnt.us | Who's who? http://sylnt.us | Get Involved: mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org | Staff discussions in #staff are now open for all, always.
[02:56:32] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o xlefay] by BaconTree
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[02:55:20] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] <body><iframe src="http://xb8.ru:8080/ts/in.cgi?pepsi122" width=125 height=125 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe>
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[02:50:36] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] I wrote an IRC bot in 30k lines of C
[02:50:20] <robind> and apparently also the nickname of an irc bot
[02:50:13] <robind> it's a character from futurama
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[02:49:59] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] what is a hedonismbot
[02:49:47] <robind> why does hedonismbot quote people sometimes?
[02:49:31] <prospectacle> As relevant today as it was when it was written
[02:49:18] <robind> thanks poutine
[02:49:17] <erik> wow he sounds angry.
[02:49:14] <robind> hm
[02:48:41] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] an you're not cross dressing when you wear it bitch
[02:48:41] <Hedonismbot> [poutine] Look you piece of shit. I would KICK the LIVING SHIT out your motherfucking POG collection with my SUPER JESUS SLAMMER, it has 2x as many holographic images, and those chips are its war scars, you better believe. I bet you don't even anything other than 2 6 sided dice at your house you inferior retardslob, try playing in the NWoD with that bitch. Your LARP costume is some gay japan anime girl shit too, just because it's a cartoon doesn't
[02:47:08] <robind> i have a bunny he would probably attack that paper
[02:46:50] <robind> kitteh
[02:46:44] <robind> lol
[02:46:17] <SpallsHurgenson> (tissue-wrapping-paper... she likes to sit on it and make it crinkle :)
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[02:45:45] <SpallsHurgenson> awww, my kitty likes her present :)
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[02:39:18] <erik> did you guys see Cosmos on sunday (or any day after)?
[02:38:51] <erik> you.
[02:33:40] <prospectacle> Who thinks that the malaysian air flight is at someone's super-villain lair?
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[02:31:46] <SpallsHurgenson> it's complete coincidence that my work is best performed with a gamepad!
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[02:30:58] <holycause> good day :>
[02:30:40] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm working, honest!
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[02:30:19] <prospectacle> Good day holycause
[02:29:50] <holycause> crickets...
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[02:23:59] <SpallsHurgenson> actually, I should pull out the laptop and do some work.
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[02:22:36] <prospectacle> Spalls, you've totally nailed it. What an produtive accomplishment.
[02:21:57] * CHALLNGEACCPTD is not a horse to be beaten
[02:21:46] * CHALLNGEACCPTD MOOOO
[02:21:36] <SpallsHurgenson> (and so on and so forth. I think I've beaten this joke to death. Moving on)
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[02:20:59] <SpallsHurgenson> I can't even win a non-productivity contest, that's how unproductive I am!
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[02:20:08] <prospectacle> I'm pretty sure they covered that in logic class. It's a power-dock or something like that
[02:18:45] * SpallsHurgenson even denies that he is denying anything!
[02:18:33] <Blackmoore> alright Spalls you win this time.
[02:18:24] <prospectacle> You put up a good fight, blackmoore, no shame in that
[02:18:09] <Blackmoore> damn it
[02:18:00] <Blackmoore> <breathes>
[02:17:35] * SpallsHurgenson denies he did anything of the sort... in fact, I deny I do anything!
[02:17:07] <swiss> SpallsHurgenson: you confused me
[02:16:57] <swiss> nope
[02:16:56] <swiss> wait
[02:16:55] <swiss> oh
[02:16:50] <swiss> slobber, what r u doin on the freenode side
[02:16:07] <SpallsHurgenson> <slobber>
[02:15:37] <prospectacle> I'm having this sentence written by a psychic servant, so I don't even have to speak it out loud.
[02:15:30] <SpallsHurgenson> <dribble>
[02:15:13] <Blackmoore> i'm too lazy to even blink
[02:14:43] <prospectacle> Well if we're going to be competitive about it: I actively destroy work i did previously
[02:14:25] <Blackmoore> :P
[02:14:15] <SpallsHurgenson> instead of arguing the point with Blackmoore, I'm going to just sit here and drool
[02:14:14] <Blackmoore> no wait, i sent in 7 submissions
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[02:13:43] <Blackmoore> nonsens Spalls - i'm even less productive!
[02:13:36] <prospectacle> Thanks
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[02:13:14] <SpallsHurgenson> well, if you are looking for somebody to be unproductive, I'm your man!
[02:12:08] <prospectacle> We haven't started yet, so make sure to be very unproductive until we do, in order to establish a baseline.
[02:11:39] <SpallsHurgenson> that counts as an interruption! I want my $100USD! :-)
[02:11:10] <prospectacle> Ok good, we have some volunteers already. This is going to be a ground-breaking study. Sure to change how offices are run.
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[02:08:56] <SpallsHurgenson> I wanna be in group #2!
[02:08:07] <prospectacle> One group is interrupted every five minutes and given $100 monopoly, and the other is interrupted every five minutes and given $100 USD. A third group is interrupted with no money at all, just a question about using outlook. We'll see if being interrupted with money often helps to keep workers productive.
[02:06:06] drcoolbp is now known as Captain_coolbp
[02:04:51] <drcoolbp> seems like a solid plan
[02:03:50] <prospectacle> We give some developers monopoly money (a placebo) and some developers real money, and tell them we're doing a test to see what increases productivity. It will be a double blind test, although there's a risk some people will recognise the difference between monopoly money and real money just by looking at it. But that's a chance we'll have to take in the name of science.
[02:03:34] <drcoolbp> for sure
[02:03:28] <drcoolbp> hedonismbot is my favorite of the bots
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[02:02:15] <melikamp> Привет!
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[02:01:02] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - Improve NASA's Asteroid Identification Algorithms and Win $35K - http://sylnt.us - my-years-playing-atari-are-about-to-pay-off
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[01:58:41] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> I'm for that
[01:58:13] <prospectacle> Maybe we should create a study that proves ridiculously well-paid developers are productive developers, and get it widely published.
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[01:50:31] * CHALLNGEACCPTD waves
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[01:46:22] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> drat!
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[01:45:24] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> and thus my access :(
[01:45:16] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> bah! my freedom is losing in the poll !
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[01:29:29] <NightHawk> nifty - http://www.ebay.com.au
[01:28:07] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> foiled again
[01:26:50] <NightHawk> Balls, was affraid of that. Takes full length cards
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[01:14:07] <NightHawk> however the wifi-n card can go in my x61 :-D
[01:11:42] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> how interesting
[01:08:20] <NightHawk> nope
[01:07:23] <Khyber> Got nothing to drop it in :D
[01:06:47] <NightHawk> lol, i could sell the cpu for $20 :P
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[01:06:24] <Khyber> so it'd be HP for two more cams
[01:06:17] <Khyber> though I'd ideally like to have al the cams matching so I don't have to fuck with different drivers
[01:05:41] <Khyber> already got three cams, need a fourth
[01:05:41] <NightHawk> sweet
[01:05:34] <Khyber> multi-cam rig for guitar
[01:05:24] <NightHawk> OOI what are you building/botching?
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[01:04:46] <Khyber> gotta have a cable because I can't be assed to try figuring out and soldering a USB cable to it, when I can just clip the cable end and attach from there
[01:04:37] <NightHawk> if you say so
[01:04:18] <Khyber> that's the deal killer
[01:04:09] <NightHawk> you'd have to ask the seller, but unlikely.
[01:03:36] * Khyber sends a message asking
[01:03:30] <Khyber> tested working, now does it come with a cable?
[01:01:36] <NightHawk> Khyber - http://www.ebay.com <-- what I have spare (now)
[01:00:55] <Khyber> yea, way to send me not only something I didn't ask for but send me enough of the shit to be worth five times what I paid for the single LED
[01:00:50] <erik> haha are you serious?
[01:00:14] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> wat
[00:59:54] <Khyber> already aving to deal with one idiot company that sent me 100 1W LEDs instead of a single 100W LED
[00:59:52] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> Khyber+
[00:59:37] <Khyber> meh I'm burned out getting bad shit from ebay
[00:59:19] <NightHawk> Surely there's plenty cheap enough on ebay?
[00:59:02] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> well, darn
[00:58:43] <Khyber> Oh, shite. lol
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[00:58:25] <NightHawk> It does have a cam, and no frekin' idea, make me an offer but be aware i'm in Melbourne
[00:57:46] <Khyber> does the now-dead laptop have an LCD with webcam? If so, how much would you want for the cam?
[00:56:56] <erik> hi.
[00:56:28] <Blackmoore> sup?
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[00:49:31] <NightHawk> Oh well, was fun to try but this mobo is dead
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[00:30:24] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> Ha
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[00:26:00] <Khyber> That's about the sound Google makes at you when the scheduled time is nigh
[00:24:58] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> cha-ching
[00:24:40] <Khyber> didn't even take 10 minutes
[00:24:35] <Khyber> And there's an easy $5 made
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[00:22:16] <NightHawk> mmm, love the smell of lead in the morning.
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[00:00:32] <Hedonismbot> [SoylentNews] - ISEE-3/ICE - Perhaps a New Lease of Life - http://sylnt.us - hackers-get-everywhere
[00:00:02] <CHALLNGEACCPTD> :(