#qa | Logs for 2020-10-22

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[00:54:53] <halibut> OK. I submitted a ``story'' with various settings (I altered some of them for the story). As you may have noticed, I tend to be a little verbose. I also not do writing good. Feel free to clean up, reword, change, or whatever and/or however.
[00:56:23] <halibut> Hopefully, if it's worth posting, I will at least learn something from the comments. Preferably something technical and useful.
[01:33:44] <Bytram_dewey> halibut++ received and processed! We had a bunch of stories already queued up, so it won't appear until early on saturday -- please be patient. And... please accept my thanks!
[01:33:56] <Bytram_dewey> teamwork++
[01:35:54] <halibut> You are welcome. Never worry about my patience. I am well aware of how much work I do around here compared to you. Far be it from me to complain about anything, least of all how quickly things happen around here.
[01:37:19] <Bytram_dewey> Sspoken like a true gentleman! Obliged for the submission and for the understanding!
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[12:07:46] <janrinok> Bytram_dewey, Hola!
[12:11:59] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: hola!
[12:12:27] <Bytram_dewey> How are you feeling today? Better, I hope!
[12:14:44] <Bytram_dewey> afk, back in a few minutes
[12:15:24] <janrinok> still tired, but just doing whatever has to be done toay and leaving the rest for tomorrow....
[12:25:11] <Bytram_dewey> {{{{ janrinok }}}}}
[12:25:20] <Bytram_dewey> easy does it!
[12:27:10] <Bytram_dewey> fall is starting to kick in over here; it's so nice to see the trees' colors changing. Portent of winter's coming, but that is not for a while! Best to enjoy what *it* here rather than worry or lament what is to come!
[12:27:39] <janrinok> Just starting the procedure to apply for permanent residency in France following Brexit. It is administrative only as S is French. They do like their bureaucracy.
[12:28:23] <janrinok> I keep looking at the fallen leaves in the garden and putting off collecting them until another day.
[12:28:32] <Bytram_dewey> it's what keeps them employed, so why not? Best of luck!
[12:28:50] <Bytram_dewey> hope for a big wind?
[12:29:16] <janrinok> I usually have that after eating beans....
[12:29:27] <janrinok> Oh, I see what you mean ;)
[12:29:49] <Bytram_dewey> Forgive me if I only have a passing interest.
[12:31:51] <janrinok> understood - I saw your other conversation ;)
[12:32:50] <janrinok> how is your conversion to linux going? I also read ^^ halibut's comment up the page, he makes some good points
[12:34:25] <Bytram_dewey> agreed! I count myself fortunate to have so many helpful and knowledgeable people lending a hand! Can't^W Don't want to imagine trying to navigate this all by myself!
[12:35:31] <Bytram_dewey> Slow and steady. I read up on the bouncer for IRC yestrday to reacquaint myself with things.
[12:38:10] <Bytram_dewey> Oh, an idea I had about transferring files. I have gigabit ethernet adapters in my lappies, and I picked up a gigabit switch a few months ago ... that would allow me much better than 30 MB/s speeds that I get from USB... if only I knew how to connect the computers so I can transfer files between them. But,
[12:38:53] <Bytram_dewey> I am concerned that it may be yet another rabbit hole to dive down that wouuld only delay my actually getting things set up.
[12:39:23] <janrinok> it is remarkably easy to do
[12:39:35] <Bytram_dewey> o_O
[12:44:39] <janrinok> ensure that each computer has a different name. For each computer that you want to be able to transmit from run ssh-keygen which will provide you with a secure key to enable your transfers to be secure. Then copy your secure key to the potential destination with ssh-copy-id [&USERID@&DESTINATION]. For example ssh-copy-id janrinok@somecomputer
[12:45:38] <janrinok> then it is a simple matter of rsync [options] [FILESPECS] janrinok@somecomputer
[12:46:56] <Bytram_dewey> okay... I had done a keygen WAY back when to access our servers... can I use that?
[12:46:57] <janrinok> you can omit the transfer of secure keys if you are prepared to give your password to each destination when you do a transfer but I find that it is less hassle just to send the password once and let the software take care of it
[12:47:11] <Bytram_dewey> nod nod
[12:47:37] <janrinok> You may find that ubuntu has set up your default SSH id but it is so long since I did it I cannot remember what the default is...
[12:48:21] <Bytram_dewey> I mean for accessing soylentnews' servers (using PuTTY)
[12:48:34] <janrinok> you can rename files during transfer, delete files from source once they have been transferred
[12:48:37] <Bytram_dewey> (back in 2014)
[12:48:54] <janrinok> you can log in to sn servers using ssh
[12:49:01] <Bytram_dewey> yes
[12:49:13] <janrinok> and if you can log in using ssh then you can transfer files using rsync
[12:49:30] <Bytram_dewey> but that was all set up under Windows
[12:50:11] <janrinok> Why do you need PuTTY - PuTTY is a bodge to provide the access that linux has always had
[12:50:37] <Bytram_dewey> backing up, how do I "ensure each computer has a different name?" Better still, how can I change the name?
[12:50:41] <janrinok> you are using linux and so are our servers - it was designed to work easily
[12:51:08] <Bytram_dewey> yes, but PuTTY is already set up and known to work
[12:51:12] <janrinok> our servers all have unique names --- aluminum, boron etc
[12:51:29] <janrinok> PuTTY doesn't exist on linux
[12:51:43] <Bytram_dewey> I understand that.
[12:52:17] <janrinok> are you referring to moving your local files from the Windows machine to your local lappies?
[12:52:34] <Bytram_dewey> I *used* putty to create public/private keys. Our SN servers work withthose already.
[12:52:38] <Bytram_dewey> Yes!
[12:53:04] <janrinok> well just copy your keys across and they will work on linux too
[12:53:11] <Bytram_dewey> instead of being stuck w/ 30 MB/s max speed, I can gigabit on a local LAN
[12:53:58] <Bytram_dewey> yes. I understand the *concept*, the devil is in the details which, atm, is clear as mud. :/
[12:54:09] <janrinok> ssh keys are ssh keys - if you can log on to sn servers from your windows machine then you can log on from your linux machine. You just need to sort out your keys. I don't know where Win saves the keys though
[12:54:39] <janrinok> OK, give me a few minutes to make a cup of tea and we can go through it step by step
[12:54:47] <Bytram_dewey> that I can find (I actually copied 'em to a USB stick a week or two ago)
[12:55:09] <Bytram_dewey> obliged! And I'll track down the keys.
[12:56:55] <Bytram_dewey> Oh, wait. If I ever reboot Huey (it's a live CD image) then all this setup would be lost. :(
[13:03:09] <Bytram_dewey> On Huey: cd /mnt && sudo mkdir WinSSD && sudo mount -r /dev/sda1 /mnt/WinSSD
[13:03:31] <janrinok> OK, backpeddle. Decide which lappy is going to be your main lappy, and we will begin the installation onto that machine. It is no good configuring a CD boot unless it is simply to learn how to do something, as you note things will be lost on reboot.
[13:05:45] <Bytram_dewey> got it. ATM, Huey is the Core 2 Duo (withthe Win 7 pro x64 install) -- it will be going away. Duey (an i5 2 core 4 thread) will become the new, primary system
[13:06:45] <Bytram_dewey> those names are purely referential as if I put a sticky note on each one. There
[13:07:36] <Bytram_dewey> is nothing (that I am aware of) on any lappy saying it's Huey, Dewey, or Louie
[13:07:40] <janrinok> well not entirely, when you installed linux on dewey it asked you for a machine name - which you must have given it. It is visible on the CLI
[13:08:36] <janrinok> the default display on a terminal for you will say (guessing) bytram@computername
[13:08:46] <Bytram_dewey> k. on Dewey, uname -a reveals: E6410-001
[13:09:19] <Bytram_dewey> ahh, that would be: martyb@E6410-001:~/
[13:09:39] <janrinok> you can change that name if you decide you would rather call it dewey, but that is the name that every other computer will see if you put it on a network. E6410-001 is a bit of a mouthful, typeful...
[13:09:57] <Bytram_dewey> yep.
[13:10:35] <Bytram_dewey> getting tje spelling for H., D., and L. is no walk in the park, either!
[13:10:35] <janrinok> so, first things first, decide what you want your main computer called
[13:10:49] <janrinok> I have noticed that ...
[13:11:51] <Bytram_dewey> oh, so simple but not so easy! I really should think on that. (Seeing what my first attempts at this came up with!)
[13:11:52] <janrinok> mine all have placenames such as cities, or places that mean something to S and I. He computer is named after her favourite place that we have visited, for example.
[13:12:29] <Bytram_dewey> was it, by chance, in Wales?
[13:12:32] <janrinok> sn has used elements, but you can have anything you want with certain typing rules. Even a single letter will work I think
[13:12:38] <janrinok> No
[13:13:00] <Bytram_dewey> (therre's a placename there that is ridiculously long)
[13:13:18] <janrinok> I've seen you type it several times, but I h
[13:13:29] <janrinok> but I think you were trying to type something else...
[13:14:30] <Bytram_dewey> You do not see the brain spurt in trying to remember the spellings for H/D/L... and then what after that? donald, minnie, scrooge...
[13:14:43] <Bytram_dewey> Seriously I need tyo ponder on this.
[13:15:21] <Bytram_dewey> can I set something up and change the names later? How will that change things? Just entries in some lookup tables?
[13:16:28] <Bytram_dewey> (FWIW, atm Huey is showing a command prompt of ubuntu@ubuntu)
[13:16:30] <janrinok> well yes and no. If you have a network then you either need some way of serving DNS automatically or you use your hosts files (NO - GO AWAY, APK!)
[13:16:52] <janrinok> that prompt is the CD default
[13:16:57] <Bytram_dewey> yes
[13:18:26] <janrinok> suggestion: Choose which computer you want to set up first, and what you are going to call it. Install the best hardware etc to it if you need to change it. Install 20.04.1 (MATE) then remove the CD and put it somewhere safe.
[13:18:41] <Bytram_dewey> this is turning into a rabbit hole. At this point I think it best that I ponder names and get back to it some other time.
[13:18:58] <Bytram_dewey> done
[13:19:06] <janrinok> then are now working on a live linux installation. Whatever you set up will not be lost
[13:21:29] <Bytram_dewey> Dewey (aka: martyb@E6410-001:~) has native Ubuntu Mate 20.04.1(I think) /me forgot how to check that
[13:21:42] <janrinok> assuming you have given it your large ssd you will have more than enough space to create an area (directory) for the bit of data that you need to recover from the windows disk e.g. home directory, places where windows stores settings and parameters etc. The rest of the Windows backup is irrelevant to you. Copy the bits you need to your hard disk and you don't need to worry about your usb speed limit again.
[13:22:25] <Bytram_dewey> lsb_release -a shows: Description: Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS
[13:23:11] <janrinok> OK, so how much space do you have left on your SSD?
[13:23:35] <Bytram_dewey> sadly, not true. I have a few hundred MB of audio and media files, for starters.
[13:23:35] <janrinok> try : df
[13:24:39] <Bytram_dewey> df . shows: /dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root 959200352 23716068 886689868 3% /
[13:24:55] <janrinok> you are not going to destroy your windows backup - you just don't need instant access to its contents at present
[13:25:36] <Bytram_dewey> right, bit I will be referring to it regularly to copy things over to here.
[13:25:45] <Bytram_dewey> s/bit/but/
[13:25:46] <janrinok> so copy the bits that you NEED to your SSD into their own directory e.g ~/windows/
[13:26:40] <janrinok> eventually yes, 80% of your windows disk is taken up with OS and programs that you DO NOT need - only copy the software that you want to run under linux
[13:27:45] <janrinok> if you copy 300GB you will still have loads of space left, and you only need to copy it once at USB speed, after which access will be SSD speeds
[13:28:21] <Bytram_dewey> and I don't know exactly what all that is. 400 MB of hexchat logs. Gobs of space for Thunderbird. Lots of work-related downloads. It's a 1 TB SSD, it's oh, sorry the "df" I shoed you were is from *Dewey*
[13:28:56] <janrinok> that will make swapping data over a network much faster too - you will be copying between linux to linux at megabit speeds
[13:29:35] <janrinok> your current bottleneck is the access to the Windows backup and the fact that you are running a CD boot - they are incredibly slow!
[13:30:57] <janrinok> at least that is my understanding of where you are at the moment. (but I could be wrong - I didn't realise that you were not using your 20.04.1 installation now
[13:31:28] <Bytram_dewey> Huey is booted off USB, Dewey is native Mate install w/ USB access to dupe of Win SSD
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[13:32:42] <Bytram_huey> df /mnt/WinSSD/ shows: /dev/sda1 976761556 513275284 463486272 53% /mnt/WinSSD
[13:32:46] <janrinok> OK - copy the --important-- bits of your win ssd onto the same drive as your Dewey 20.04.1
[13:34:18] <janrinok> I don't know the directory structure of Windows (not since W2000 or thereabouts) but a lot of it is of no interest to you really if you are NOT running windows
[13:34:59] <Bytram_dewey> fully agree, but it is not that big compared to whta I have accumulated over the years
[13:35:26] <janrinok> I would suggest copy your win home directory in toto.
[13:36:13] <janrinok> agreed, but you do NOT need that accumulation to set up your linux. you can copy that across later when you are happy that you have got control over your linux and your tool chain works as expected.
[13:37:27] <janrinok> get your emacs working the way you like it, get ssh access to the SN servers, set up your display to suit your way of working etc
[13:38:25] <janrinok> when you boot from 20.04.1 you will be amazed at how different it behaves compared to a USB drive
[13:39:00] <Bytram_dewey> it would be faster (in the long run) to copy everything from the Win7 backup (aka Huey) to a dir on Dewey... then prune out Windows, etc. Seriously! Windows is small potatoes compared to all the other stuff I have on that sytem.
[13:39:14] <Bytram_dewey> that said, that's about 500 GB
[13:39:45] <Bytram_dewey> so, we are talking a matter of hours here.
[13:39:48] <janrinok> yes but initially you are going to be searching for things in your 20.04.1 directories - why slow that down by giving it more data to search through?
[13:40:23] <janrinok> but if you want to copy it all now then go ahead - I'm just saying that it is not essential to the immediate task that you are trying to achieve.
[13:41:34] <Bytram_dewey> nod nod... but it is becoming a recurring issue that keeps taking up some (of my limited) brain space to keep track of things.
[13:42:18] <janrinok> so reduce the data set that you are working with to the minimum necessary for the moment, and not the maximum that you will want eventually.
[13:42:37] <Bytram_dewey> just having everything on a single system will make things ***much*** easier.
[13:43:27] <Bytram_dewey> yes, I agree in *theory*, my brain does not want to go along (I'm full!)
[13:43:30] <janrinok> but I have suggested copying the IMPORTANT bits - your scripts, your settings, your keys.
[13:44:01] <janrinok> copy the whole lot then, but it will take 4-6 hours to copy?
[13:45:19] <Bytram_dewey> yes, but knowing what is important and where it is... not so easy. 5 years of accumulated stuff being organically located across the SSD... it is not as organized as I'd like it to be. lotsa: find . -type f -name foo* -ls
[13:45:34] <Bytram_dewey> yes
[13:45:43] <janrinok> surely windows has some structure to where it puts things?
[13:47:32] <Bytram_dewey> yes, but I have some historically organized stuff from back in the 90s which I've carried right along. Such as: c:\tools\util
[13:48:05] <janrinok> I understand only too well how you feel - as we both know we have both been here before. Choose whatever method suits you best then do it. We cannot move forward until you are working on a linux machine that isn't going to change if you reboot it.
[13:49:02] <janrinok> I said earlier - copy all of the IMPORTANT directories - just don't bother copying stuff that you don't need to do the job in hand. You can copy that later when you have more time.
[13:49:11] <Bytram_dewey> Deweu is Mate 20.04.1 LTS booted from a local SSD -- so that is going to be steady.
[13:49:36] <janrinok> OK, so that is the computer that we are going to set up first?
[13:49:58] <janrinok> Is that the computer name that you want to keep?
[13:50:56] <janrinok> does your 'router' connection - whatever that is - have a built-in DNS facility. I don't know how your telephone link actually works, I've not seen somebody use it over here.
[13:51:40] <Bytram_dewey> I hear you, and I agree with you, but there's a lot of new stuff that is swirling through my jead like a cluttered desk that does not have enough space left over to do the work at hand. getting *everything* over, so it's just a dir that I copy from is like clearing off 80% of the desktop so taht I finally have enough (mental) space to work with.
[13:52:29] <janrinok> that is exhaustion and stress. Time to slow down buddy or else you end up like several others we both know - me included!
[13:52:31] <Bytram_dewey> I just set my phone in Hotspot mode so it acts like an access point.
[13:52:43] * janrinok thinks nobody wants to end up like him
[13:53:34] <janrinok> so your phone doesn't have a DNS facility? Can you have all your computers accessing the internet at the same time?
[13:53:38] <Bytram_dewey> yep, hence my pushing back -- tryihng to clear things up so I it become manageable, and been around long enough to notice, recognize, *and* do something about it.
[13:53:58] <Bytram_dewey> yes, thought I've nevr had more than two at once.
[13:54:17] <Bytram_dewey> I go into networking, look for my SSID, connect, and I'm good
[13:55:12] <janrinok> OK, it looks like you might benefit initially from a simple hosts file. You can play with a DNS server later.
[13:55:27] <Bytram_dewey> don't get me wrong, I know abpout DNS and what they do and the principles involved, but it's at a layer of abstraction where many details are... cloudy!
[13:55:37] * Bytram_dewey knows HOSTS
[13:56:14] <janrinok> ignore it for now - you only need to store addresses for your own machines on your own network - so probably 4 at max
[13:56:28] <janrinok> HOSTS will do that easily
[13:57:21] <Bytram_dewey> Seriously, thanks so much for making the time to help me right now. I'm a bit tired, myself, too. I'll do the copy today and we can check back in tomorrow... depending on how *you* are doing, of course!
[13:57:42] <janrinok> OK, take a break and think about what you are trying to achieve, write it down, and come back to it later and pick holes in it
[13:58:08] <janrinok> decide on a naming system!
[13:58:35] <Bytram_dewey> yes, that's about where I'm at. Need to digest what I've got before taking on another buffet!
[13:59:24] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok++
[13:59:36] <Bytram_dewey> huh?
[14:00:45] <Bytram_dewey> ok, gave ya a bump in #soylent
[14:00:54] <Bytram_dewey> break time. thanks so much!
[14:10:02] <janrinok> np - tomorrow probably. Take it easy
[14:11:05] * janrinok notices Bytram_dewey's typo - looks like 'thanks for the Hell' - lol
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[20:18:19] <Bytram_dewey> halibut: ping?
[20:18:25] <halibut> Pong.
[20:18:39] <Bytram_dewey> that always cracks me up!
[20:18:48] <Bytram_dewey> got a qqquick question.
[20:19:04] <halibut> I disagree with janriok. There is nothing technically wrong with the advice of setting a host name, possibly using host files, but I think that is overkill for what you are trying to do.
[20:19:06] <Bytram_dewey> I have a copy of my windows SSD
[20:19:31] <Bytram_dewey> a) it would be short term (I hope)
[20:19:51] <Bytram_dewey> b) I understand HOSTS from back in Win 95 or so
[20:19:57] <Bytram_dewey> but the question is this
[20:20:16] <Bytram_dewey> So, I have this backup copy of my windows SSD
[20:20:59] <Bytram_dewey> I'd like to copy the entire contents to a drive on this Linux machine (Ubuntu Mate 20.04.1)
[20:21:32] <Bytram_dewey> The copy is on an SSD, but physically accessible over a (slow) USB
[20:22:04] <Bytram_dewey> I'k like to get it local, say on a dir under ~/
[20:22:20] <Bytram_dewey> I'm *guessing* I can usee dd again?
[20:22:49] <Bytram_dewey> but... I don't want to guess wrong and after copying ~500 GB, discover I cannot access the files
[20:22:59] <Bytram_dewey> follow me so far?
[20:23:05] <halibut> Yes.
[20:23:09] <Bytram_dewey> greak
[20:23:28] <Bytram_dewey> so lsblk shows me these two lines for the drive:
[20:23:45] <halibut> I am debating between using dd vs copying the files themselves.
[20:23:57] <Bytram_dewey> sdb 8:16 0 931.5G 0 disk
[20:23:57] <Bytram_dewey> └─sdb1 8:17 0 931.5G 0 part /media/martyb/DE0CBFD30CBFA4C5
[20:24:14] <Bytram_dewey> so, I'm thinking I should do:
[20:24:27] <Bytram_dewey> mkdir ~/WinSSD
[20:25:30] <Bytram_dewey> dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=~/WinSSD bs=1GB status=progress
[20:25:47] * Bytram_dewey is not certain about that last parameter
[20:26:17] <halibut> bs=1G (or bs=1GB) is probably overkill; I would not use over bs=1M, but that is a minor point.
[20:26:30] <Bytram_dewey> will that reproduce the files and dirs under ~/WinSSD ??
[20:26:34] <halibut> Does the drive to which you are copying (the drive containing ~/WinSSD) have 1T of free space?
[20:26:43] <Bytram_dewey> I'm moving 500 GB
[20:26:54] <Bytram_dewey> s/moving/copying/
[20:27:09] <halibut> dd if=/dev/sdb1 ... will make an image of the entire partition, so it will output 931.5G.
[20:27:17] <Bytram_dewey> just a sec
[20:27:19] <halibut> It does not matter what the contents are.
[20:29:02] <Bytram_dewey> df -h .
[20:29:05] <Bytram_dewey> displays
[20:29:21] <Bytram_dewey> /dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root 915G 23G 846G 3% /
[20:29:38] <Bytram_dewey> so, should be plenty of room
[20:29:49] <halibut> dd, used like this, makes raw byte-for-byte disk images. It does not care about individual files in a filesystem, or even the type of filesystem; it just copies all the bytes (even bytes not used by any filesystem).
[20:30:03] <Bytram_dewey> oh.
[20:30:05] <halibut> You have 846G free, which means you do not have enough space for an image of the partition.
[20:30:18] <Bytram_dewey> Thank you!
[20:30:33] <Bytram_dewey> I *thought* I was missing something
[20:30:46] <halibut> Just like you can mount /dev/sdb1, however, there are ways to mount an image of /dev/sdb1. However, since you do not have the space for the full image, I would just go with transferring files.
[20:30:51] <Bytram_dewey> so just mount the external ssd and copy from there
[20:31:25] <Bytram_dewey> I am also thinking about preserving file attributes
[20:31:25] <halibut> Yes. Due to filesystem differences, you might lose some permissions, strange file attributes, and/or ownership, but I suspect you only care about the contents of files, and that should work fine.
[20:31:43] <Bytram_dewey> NTFS
[20:31:57] <Bytram_dewey> I dunno what I have over here
[20:32:14] <halibut> Basic read/write attributes should be preserved, but I do not know if NTFS has anything that is not supported by whatever filesystem you are using (ext4?).
[20:32:41] <Bytram_dewey> how can I tell what I am using over here?
[20:33:13] <halibut> mount | grep -F ' / '
[20:33:15] <halibut> is one way.
[20:33:24] <Bytram_dewey> k, brb
[20:33:55] <Bytram_dewey> got 48 lines of response
[20:34:07] <halibut> Did you get the spaces I put around the slash?
[20:34:15] <Bytram_dewey> nope!
[20:34:45] <Bytram_dewey> cp[y ...
[20:35:02] <halibut> Another version would be something like lsblk --fs /dev/sda1 (or whatever device is mounted on your root partition)
[20:35:25] <Bytram_dewey> I get: /dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
[20:35:44] <halibut> The ``type ext4'' means your filesystem is ext4.
[20:36:21] <Bytram_dewey> got it. tx!
[20:36:47] <Bytram_dewey> and thanks, especially, for the lsblk incantation -- that makes more sense to me
[20:36:55] <Bytram_dewey> hold on
[20:38:21] <Bytram_dewey> okay, was doing some looking at /mnt/*
[20:38:42] <Bytram_dewey> I already have a dir: /mnt/cloned
[20:38:47] <Bytram_dewey> it is empty
[20:39:26] <Bytram_dewey> So I should do: sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/cloned
[20:39:29] <Bytram_dewey> ??
[20:43:37] <halibut> That should work, but not necessary. Apparently, it is already mounted at /media/martyb/DE0CBFD30CBFA4C5 (from your lsblk output above).
[20:44:24] <Bytram_dewey> yes, but access over a *slow* USB connection -- I would prefer to have things all local to this SSD
[20:45:03] <halibut> I meant the mount command was not necessary, as the device is already mounted somewhere. Copying is the next step.
[20:45:19] <Bytram_dewey> oh. doh!
[20:45:21] <Bytram_dewey> k
[20:45:32] <halibut> rsync can be used for copying, and will produce more progress output as it goes. However, cp is easier to use.
[20:46:00] <Bytram_dewey> I've read a lot about rsync, but never used it
[20:46:19] <halibut> cp -av /media/martyb/DE0CBFD30CBFA4C5 ~/WinSSD/
[20:46:22] <Bytram_dewey> fwiw, I have some symbolic links on the Win SSD
[20:46:45] <halibut> is one way (the -a preserves lots of things, including symbolic links and ownership, but the latter will not happen if you are running as a normal user).
[20:47:15] <halibut> rsync -avuHAXP /media/martyb/DE0CBFD30CBFA4C5/. ~/WinSSD/.
[20:47:17] <Bytram_dewey> so I should sudo?
[20:47:17] <halibut> is another way.
[20:47:33] <halibut> I would recommend against sudo here. Caveats coming up.
[20:48:07] <Bytram_dewey> thought so -- could mess up privs and ownership (I'm guessing)
[20:48:14] <halibut> If your normal user does not have access to every file in /media/martyb/DE<...>, then those will not get copied.
[20:48:51] <halibut> However, if you use sudo so the cp gets done as root, your normal user might not have access to everything that gets copied.
[20:49:09] <Bytram_dewey> there were 4-5 accts on Windows, but I only realy used one of them... the others were just-in-case I blew things up soehow
[20:49:11] <halibut> One way around that is to copy with sudo, and then, afterwards force the ownership of everything you just copied to your normal user.
[20:49:27] <Bytram_dewey> ugh, nah
[20:49:57] <halibut> You might see if you can access the user directories of all 4-5 accounts as your normal user. My guess is NTFS ownership does not really transfer with the way you have the filesystem mounted.
[20:50:38] <halibut> I am guessing /media/martyb/DE<...>/Users/ will have various user directories in it. Can you view contents of files in all of them without sudo?
[20:50:57] <Bytram_dewey> great thinking! brb
[20:51:41] <halibut> By the way, the final ownership swap is pretty easy: sudo chown -R martyb: ~/WinSSD
[20:51:46] <halibut> (just guessing for the username).
[20:52:53] <halibut> I guess I would recommend using rsync over cp. If you need to interrupt the copy, or it gets interrupted, simply re-running the rsync command will pick up where it left off, whereas the cp will start over, trying to overwrite everything it did.
[20:53:17] <halibut> rsync has a pretty hefty man page, but it should explain all of the options I included.
[20:54:35] <Bytram_dewey> I forgot there is an "All Users" dir
[20:55:00] <Bytram_dewey> and, yes. it looks like I could navigate the directory tree
[20:55:16] <Bytram_dewey> rsync is sounding much better
[20:55:30] <halibut> Then I would go with the rsync command without sudo.
[20:56:24] <Bytram_dewey> is this a memory hog? Would I be advised to close unnecessary programs / browser windows?
[20:56:56] <Bytram_dewey> I am gurrently using 2.2 GiB of 3.6 GiB RAM
[20:57:07] <halibut> rsync sometimes has a habit of copying directories into subdirectories. The command I gave ended each directory with ``/.''. I never know exactly when that is needed, but I know the invocation as I gave it will prevent making a directory named ~/WinSSD/DE<...>, and should make ~/WinSSD/ look exactly like /media/martyb/DE<...>.
[20:57:29] <halibut> I do not think of rsync as a memory hog. I never really clocked it, but even with large transfers I do not remember my memory getting used up.
[20:57:38] <halibut> ... but then, if my memory got used up, how could I remember it?
[20:57:50] <Bytram_dewey> I forget!
[20:58:14] <Bytram_dewey> thanks for sacing my from two cases of badly-skinned knuckles!
[20:58:52] <halibut> You've made multiple references to skinned knuckles. Is that a reference to using the mouse a lot?
[20:59:49] <Bytram_dewey> so, to confirm, this is the command: rsync -avuHAXP /media/martyb/DE0CBFD30CBFA4C5/. ~/WinSSD/.
[21:00:45] <Bytram_dewey> feeling awkward and not having good propriaception (sp?)
[21:01:03] <halibut> Yes. Fortunately, there is limited damage it can do if run as a normal user (and we are not specifying the --delete option, so it will not delete anything if pointed to the wrong location).
[21:01:09] <halibut> Proprioception, I think.
[21:01:25] <Bytram_dewey> that does look better, tx!
[21:01:42] <Bytram_dewey> cross your fingers... about to give it a try
[21:01:59] <halibut> I would recommend running the rsync command, waiting for it to show files transferring, give it 5 seconds or so, and then using CTRL-C to stop it.
[21:02:26] <halibut> Then, take a look at ~/WinSSD/ to see if things appear to be copying correctly (there will not be much there) and, if so, re-run the rsync command to get things going again.
[21:02:48] <Bytram_dewey> and... it's started!
[21:03:58] <halibut> Fingers crossed ...
[21:04:00] <Bytram_dewey> Looks like it is reading all the files to make a "file list
[21:04:32] <Bytram_dewey> and then, when it knows what it is going to be doing, it will need to read everything again to actually make the copy?
[21:07:09] <Bytram_dewey> It is probably overkill, but where done, I'll have no doubt about haing gotten everything that I could possibly need from that drive. And, I'll still have the cloned Windows SSD to fall back on.
[21:08:18] <halibut> The first pass, it is not reading file contents, just directory contents. The second pass, it should know the directory contents, so it will only read file contents for the copy. I do not think there is too much there that is redundant (save for the fact that you typically cannot read a file without finding the file).
[21:08:38] <halibut> The first pass does not take anywhere near as long as it takes to read the content of all of the files.
[21:09:25] <halibut> I have some things away from the screen I should do. Any quick questions I can help with before I step away for an hour or so?
[21:09:54] <Bytram_dewey> that makes sense. I'm sure some better minds than mine have grappled with optimizations...
[21:10:17] <Bytram_dewey> oh, no. Looks like I'm good! thanks SO MUCH!
[21:10:54] <halibut> You are welcome. Best of luck with the copy, and I will be back later.
[21:11:12] <Bytram_dewey> obliged!
[22:33:32] -!- halibut has quit [Quit: leaving]
[22:57:18] -!- halibut [halibut!~halibut@2001:468:d01:mr:tvu:rpjp:hkzp:mwzz] has joined #qa
[22:59:36] <Bytram_dewey> still quite a ways to go. du -cms . is reporting: 193102 .
[23:04:24] <halibut> Still, decent progress. For something like this, -m is appropriate, but for other purposes, try: du -hs . (-h instead of -m, and the -c is superfluous if only checking one directory)
[23:08:42] <Bytram_dewey> 204G .
[23:09:09] <Bytram_dewey> do you know if the G means Gibibytes or Gigabytes?
[23:10:55] <halibut> Gibibytes, I think. The man page suggests G means 2^30, and GB means 10^9.
[23:11:20] <Bytram_dewey> ahh, thanks!
[23:12:52] <Bytram_dewey> is copying scads of small (0.5 - 2.0 MB files right now)
[23:13:33] <halibut> A thousand 1k files takes significantly longer than a single 1M file. Still, it should get done eventually.
[23:14:50] <Bytram_dewey> oh, most assuredly agree! Way back when I could read disk formats (with a cheat sheet) for Atari 800, Commodore 64, DOS FAT, etv.
[23:15:03] <Bytram_dewey> break time
[23:15:27] <halibut> Oh, please don't break it now!
[23:22:40] <Bytram_dewey> 223G
[23:23:08] <halibut> Hard not to count the individual numbers, isn't it?
[23:23:45] <halibut> ``blocks'' or ``units'' would probably be a better fit instead of ``numbers'' in that sentence.
[23:24:28] <Bytram_dewey> is this better?
[23:24:29] <Bytram_dewey> 236640600
[23:26:17] <halibut> You're going to need to type faster if you report progress in smaller units.
[23:27:12] <Bytram_dewey> Could I just ask you to read slower?
[23:31:11] <halibut> Be sure to report when you get to 288G, just because it is two gross.
[23:33:32] <Bytram_dewey> by now, it's probably two late ;^)
[23:34:39] <Bytram_dewey> 244G
[23:36:08] <halibut> Amazing how progress on anything else slows to a stop as one keeps checking the progress ...
[23:37:01] <Bytram_dewey> "A watched pot never boils."
[23:40:20] <Bytram_dewey> =g how many miles are in 1 kilometer?
[23:40:21] <systemd> https://www.metric-conversions.org - Kilometers to Miles - km to mi conversion
[23:41:55] <halibut> Does ubuntu have the units program installed by default? ( echo 1 km ; echo miles ) | units
[23:42:14] <halibut> 0.62137119 miles to one kilometer
[23:45:41] <halibut> It handles the scaling, too. ( echo 2 km ; echo miles ) | units
[23:46:04] <halibut> 1.2427424 miles in 2 kilometers.
[23:47:17] <halibut> You can have fun, too: ( echo 1 mile per hour ; echo furlongs per fortnight ) | units
[23:47:31] <halibut> 1 mph is 2688 furlongs per fortnight.
[23:47:56] <Bytram_dewey> no, but I'd heard of it before and already installed it by the time you asked. I *am* learning! Was unaware of the usage format though, so that's a big help!
[23:50:10] <Bytram_dewey> We are up to music artists whose name starts with "F"
[23:51:46] <halibut> I am cheating to make it a single line. units is best run interactive, but you need to remember to use CTRL-D or CTRL-C to quit when done.
[23:52:52] <Bytram_dewey> It never ceases to amaze me to see 10+ MB files being copied at a rapid clip (and I so wish I had TB 4!) when my first IBM compatible computer had a 286 processor at 12 MHz and a 40 MB hard disk... except DOS 3.1 could not handle a partition that large so I had to split it up into 32 MB and 8 MB partitions!!
[23:55:00] <Bytram_dewey> halibut: I like your way. Way WAY back when I learned how to program in Lisp and were not permitted to use sequential operations, so evrything was recursive and IIRC return-by-value. Your example fits right into that line of thinking.