#qa | Logs for 2020-02-27

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[00:48:58] -!- Bytram_dewey [Bytram_dewey!~a6b6fb89@777-391-722-701.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #qa
[00:49:01] <Bytram_dewey> https://gizmodo.com
[01:35:58] <chromas> okay but that author'd better not complain when I say "legos"
[01:50:13] <chromas> "if the President of the United States of America decrees that GIF is GIF and not JIF, well then, you are wrong."
[01:50:21] <chromas> I bet they wouldn't say that now
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[13:24:50] <Bytram> UPS++
[13:25:09] <Bytram> .op
[13:25:09] -!- mode/#qa [+o Bytram] by wheatley
[13:25:24] <janrinok> ~gday Bytram
[13:25:25] * exec genuinely connects an attack helicopter of MrPlow's busted ass commands to Bytram
[13:25:41] <Bytram> ~gday janrinok
[13:25:43] * exec faithfully QCs a printout of nudez and aminals for janrinok
[13:26:10] <Bytram> hmmm I just invited Bender... but nothing yet
[13:26:48] <Bytram> in #soylent, I issued: /invite Bender #qa
[13:27:11] <Bytram> I have done a ".op" in *both* channels, too.
[13:27:13] <Bytram> Oh well!
[13:27:38] <janrinok> how's things?
[13:27:40] <Bytram> Anyway, I'm in the midst of a power outage
[13:27:58] <Bytram> my UPS says it has ~60 minutes left
[13:29:28] <janrinok> ooo not good
[13:29:42] * Bytram should prolly call the power company to report the outage
[13:29:44] <Bytram> brb
[13:31:34] <Bytram> Widespread outage during a weather situation
[13:32:56] <Bytram> there are ~1000 people affected
[13:33:22] <Bytram> my phone is currently at ~60% charged
[13:33:42] <janrinok> so what do you plan to do now?
[13:34:04] <Bytram> nothing TOO drastic for the next hour or so!
[13:34:24] <janrinok> OK, how far did you get yesterday?
[13:34:34] <janrinok> did you get your screen working?
[13:35:00] <Bytram> heh, even the weather radar is messed up with a couple radars popping out and back in over the past half hour
[13:35:07] <Bytram> not yet
[13:35:31] <Bytram> errands yesterday took much more time (and energy) than I expected...
[13:35:50] <Bytram> did not help that I woke at 0330 and did not get back to sleep
[13:36:01] <Bytram> so was running on empty at the end
[13:36:47] <janrinok> I noted that we were both editing stories earlier
[13:37:17] <Bytram> yes, that was when the 1st power outage hit this AM at 0430
[13:37:43] <Bytram> power came back in about 10 minutes (YAY!)
[13:38:58] <Bytram> In my favor, I could throw a rock from my apartment building and hit a phone company switching substation, and within a couple hundred yards are a fire station and what was once a large old public school.
[13:39:22] <Bytram> I'm sure that puts us high on the list for a timely repair.
[13:39:22] <janrinok> so you should be in a priority area?
[13:39:27] <Bytram> nod nod
[13:39:54] <janrinok> we have a very different system in Europe. Power is handled by much larger regions - countries in many cases
[13:40:11] * Bytram is sure glad he is not out on a bucket truck in this weather trying to get things back working. Gusty winds and heavy rains.
[13:41:13] <Bytram> okaay, but at some point the transmission lines must feed into distribution lines and then to substations and finally to the individual locations, right?
[13:41:33] <janrinok> yes, but it is all handled by 1 company
[13:41:42] <Bytram> oh, okay
[13:41:55] <Bytram> It *used* to be that way here, as well.
[13:42:33] <Bytram> Now it is split up between power generation companies that feed into a power distribution company.
[13:42:47] <Bytram> Thought was to encourage competition in power generation.
[13:43:05] <Bytram> so far, I have not seen any downsides to that setup.
[13:43:15] <Bytram> just a moment
[13:43:23] <janrinok> well I suppose it is similar here but most local distribution is underground
[13:44:41] <janrinok> cables on pylons or poles outside of built-up areas but in built up areas it is either already underground or being converted to underground as part of a rolling project
[13:46:45] <Bytram> annnd the power is back
[13:46:54] <janrinok> .... but for how long?
[13:47:41] <Bytram> I just plugged my phone in to fill up its charge. Main UPS is recharging, secondary UPS is recharging, too.
[13:48:22] <janrinok> have you got a UPS for your UPS...?
[13:50:26] <janrinok> time for tea
[13:50:28] <janrinok> tea++
[13:58:01] <Bytram> UPSs: 3x585VA 1x900VA and 1x1325VA (Sine Wave), in order of age (Prolly something like ~2 years, ~6 years, ~1-2 years, respectively)
[13:59:03] <Bytram> just in case, /me has plugged in his ancient UPSs, too!
[14:00:04] <janrinok> have you thought of selling power back to the power company?
[14:00:04] <Bytram> FWIW, my particular apartment building is fed by underground lines connected to overhead lines along the street.
[14:01:06] <janrinok> so, now that you have enough power what do you want to do?
[14:01:20] <Bytram> I got an HDMI switch yesterday, 4 inputs to select between feeding 1 output. Inputs from each of the lappys, output to TV
[14:01:30] <janrinok> yeah, I read that
[14:01:57] <Bytram> Worked well *except* when I switched away from an input, it presented to that device as if it no longer had an output there. :P
[14:02:04] <janrinok> to me it sounded perfectly normal for a lappy to think it had lost its external display when it wasn't selected
[14:02:20] <Bytram> It *was* inexpensive*, so it was worth a chance!
[14:03:02] <janrinok> oh, it was/is a good idea so long as the lappy recognised it as soon as it was reselected as the output
[14:03:20] <Bytram> There are more expensive ones which will present a constant 'destination' to each of the sources, but at only about $30 it was well worth giving it a try!
[14:04:40] <Bytram> And that was the other part of the problem... that did not seem to work... at least for Huey (the old lappy)... Hmmm? Mybe if I connect Huey directly to TV, and the other (newer) lappys through the switch?
[14:04:57] <janrinok> what happens when the relevant selection is made to reconnect the display to the lappy - does the lappy immediately switch back to external screen again?
[14:05:15] <Bytram> Not on Huey (old)
[14:05:47] <janrinok> pity
[14:05:49] <Bytram> by then I was pretty wiped out, can't remember for certain what happened with Dewey.
[14:06:10] <janrinok> np - it is always better to stop when you get tired so that mistakes are not made
[14:07:04] <janrinok> do you want to try stage 1 of the 'plan' - installing win 7 onto the 'clone' SSD?
[14:07:29] <Bytram> Upon further thought about the plan you suggested yesterday... installing from DVD to spare SSD and trying to boot Louie from that until I got the BIOS settings sorted out... I am not seeing what that buys be over attempts to reboot Louie with just the DVD?
[14:07:58] <Bytram> I suppose it would afford faster reboot attempts... anything else?
[14:08:06] <janrinok> the problem is that Louie takes an age to boot from the DVD
[14:08:17] <Bytram> besides, of course, verifying that I *could* install from DVD to SSD
[14:08:21] <Bytram> k
[14:08:25] <janrinok> with an SSD you will see the success/failure immediately AND...
[14:08:30] <Bytram> just making sure!
[14:09:13] <janrinok> the aim is to get Louie to boot from a SSD - booting from a DVD is only solving part of the problem. You want to be able to boot from a cloned drive
[14:09:47] <Bytram> understood on that point...
[14:09:54] <janrinok> we need to know that the SSD that we are trying with works - i.e. has not been corrupted by power interrupts etc
[14:10:27] <Bytram> I guess I was looking at what the short-term cost was of installing to the SSD vs how much time it would (potentially) save me from reboot attempts from the DVD and
[14:10:45] <Bytram> what if I made a bootable USB stick from the DVD?
[14:10:55] <Bytram> Ahhh, excellent point!
[14:11:06] <Bytram> Feeding two birds with one worm!
[14:11:09] <janrinok> so we install W7 on huey from DVD onto the 'clone' SSD. The we check that the SSD boots on huey, and only then do we try booting the 'W7onCloneSSD' on the other lappies
[14:11:10] <Bytram> =)
[14:11:41] <Bytram> I be talking to you from Huey atm
[14:12:16] <Bytram> So that is going to mean a change in lappys to carry on a conversation, here.
[14:12:27] <Bytram> Prolly use Dewie for that.
[14:12:28] <janrinok> np - if you are not feeling awake enough we can do a quick job on the Ubuntu lappy and switch to MATE, which you have already installed
[14:12:59] <Bytram> THAT sounds like a good idea... I assume that is... straightforward?
[14:13:28] <janrinok> I would yes - but you know how these things are when 2 people are 1000's of miles apart...
[14:13:47] <Bytram> nod nod
[14:13:53] <Bytram> just a minute
[14:14:27] <janrinok> when you power up the lappy - DO NO LOG ON
[14:14:59] <Bytram> k
[14:15:09] <janrinok> but let me know when you get there
[14:15:23] <Bytram> Dewey?
[14:15:37] <janrinok> yep if that is the Ubuntu lappy
[14:16:26] <Bytram> it is
[14:19:56] <janrinok> when you get to the log in screen you will notice two icons marked Cancel and Sign In. To the immediate lhs of the Sign In there should be a cog wheel icon. Confirm that you can see this cog wheel icon
[14:20:48] <Bytram> Strange... I also got a new power brick yesterday, exact same as the one I was using on Dewey, but for some strange reason I just plugged in Louie and it is not working.
[14:21:10] <Bytram> Okay, back to Dewey
[14:21:27] * Bytram presses power button
[14:21:54] <Bytram> ISTR it was last setup to use two monitors
[14:22:18] <janrinok> that shouldn't matter as long as you can see a log in screen somewhere
[14:22:25] <Bytram> okay, I now see the Ubuntu "choose a user" screen
[14:22:55] <janrinok> can you see the cog wheel icon that I described a few lines back?
[14:22:59] * Bytram looks for the "Cog" /setup ico
[14:23:16] <janrinok> just read back up the page 5 or 6 lines
[14:23:49] <Bytram> not directly on this screen
[14:24:01] <janrinok> how many users have you got set up?
[14:24:28] <Bytram> I see "UserNameU1" as a user choice (and immediately below which is "Not listed?" AND...
[14:26:26] <Bytram> in upper right hand (URH) corner are little icons that let me choose to chane screen brightness/contrast, select a network connection (shows I am connected thru my phone) and shows batter condition as fully charge and, lastly, a "Power" icon
[14:26:38] <janrinok> no no
[14:26:48] <janrinok> how do you normally log in?
[14:27:00] <Bytram> I have not logged in..
[14:27:22] <Bytram> this is the screen that was brought up after I hit the power switch and with NO other input on my partt.
[14:27:28] <janrinok> You have been using ubuntu while talking to me - you must have logged in somewhere...
[14:27:43] <Bytram> No, it is waiting for me to choose a user
[14:28:05] <janrinok> I don't see that - I am the only user, which is why I asked ^^^ how many users have you set up?
[14:28:12] <Bytram> I am talking to you on IRC using my Windows lappy (Huey)
[14:28:51] * janrinok is confused - are we setting up MATE on the Ubuntu lappy?
[14:28:55] <Bytram> Just the one user set up on Dewey: UserNameU1 which I have NOT yet selected.
[14:29:06] <Bytram> yes, I hope so.
[14:29:17] <janrinok> is that the one that you have always used to run Ubuntu?
[14:29:22] <Bytram> Do you want me to log in?
[14:29:24] <Bytram> yes
[14:29:42] <janrinok> yes - but you are NOT at the sign in page yet
[14:30:23] <janrinok> select whichever user you have used in the past but DO NOT input a password
[14:30:47] <Bytram> Oh... now I got you!
[14:30:56] <janrinok> can you see the icon?
[14:31:07] * Bytram clicks on "UserNameU1"
[14:31:18] <janrinok> next to the green Sign In button?
[14:32:26] <janrinok> .... it is ominously quiet
[14:33:11] <Bytram> *now* I see: "Password:" below which is a text-entry field into which Icould type my pwd. Below that are a cancel button, a "Gear" icon (<-- is that what you mean?) and to the right of that is a "Sign in" button.
[14:33:19] <janrinok> YES
[14:33:41] <Bytram> is to left of sign on button and neither are green
[14:33:51] <Bytram> click gear?
[14:34:00] <janrinok> if you click on the cog wheel / Gear wheel icon it should give you a choice of desktops
[14:34:10] <Bytram> k...
[14:34:16] <janrinok> select MATE, and then input your password
[14:34:27] <Bytram> "Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu on Wayland"
[14:34:42] <janrinok> can you not see MATE? You installed it the other day?
[14:34:53] <Bytram> no MATE offered.
[14:35:05] <Bytram> I only see those two Ubuntu choices.
[14:35:35] <janrinok> you did download the ubuntu-MATE-desktop the other day didn't you>
[14:35:36] <janrinok> ?
[14:35:43] <Bytram> yes, I did!
[14:35:53] <janrinok> on the same SSD...?
[14:36:04] <Bytram> yes
[14:36:34] <janrinok> well, it should be installed then. Log in to Ubuntu from the choices you have been offered
[14:36:40] <Bytram> k
[14:36:50] <janrinok> we will have to find why it hasn't been installed
[14:36:56] <Bytram> I willtake the defult offered "Wayland"
[14:37:23] <janrinok> whatever
[14:37:43] <Bytram> OK, now have Ubuntu desktop
[14:37:49] <janrinok> that will be another problem - Wayland is still under development
[14:37:55] <Bytram> temrinal window?
[14:38:08] <Bytram> is why i took the default w/o wayland
[14:38:10] <janrinok> yep, and then sudo synaptic
[14:39:51] <Bytram> just a moment
[14:40:10] <janrinok> we are just approaching 30 minutes into a 2 minute job - lol
[14:40:37] <Bytram> a foot fell off my kbd
[14:40:42] <janrinok> lol
[14:41:05] <cmn32480> better than off your leg!
[14:41:08] <Bytram> k
[14:41:16] <Bytram> see new screen display
[14:41:25] <Bytram> big info box displays
[14:41:57] -!- Bytram_dewey [Bytram_dewey!~a6b6f931@15-715-653-137.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #qa
[14:41:59] <janrinok> close that and deselect it if you can see the obvious way of doing it -
[14:42:16] <Bytram_dewey> closed
[14:42:32] <janrinok> let me know when you have got synaptic open please
[14:42:47] <Bytram_dewey> is open
[14:42:59] <Bytram_dewey> 65448 poackages listed
[14:43:03] <janrinok> goto search (top rhs)
[14:43:09] <Bytram_dewey> 1664 installed
[14:43:11] <cmn32480> might I make a suggestion?
[14:43:17] <janrinok> and search for ubuntu-mate-desktop
[14:43:19] <janrinok> yes
[14:43:26] <cmn32480> woudl a screen share work better for this?
[14:43:30] <Bytram_dewey> 0 broken, 0 to install, 0 to remove
[14:43:57] <janrinok> not if it takes 30 minutes to even get this far - it would take all day!
[14:44:23] <janrinok> you haven't got ssh installed yet so any connection would be insecure
[14:44:23] <cmn32480> I mean a setup for janrinok to be able to drive
[14:44:33] <Bytram_dewey> nod mod
[14:44:56] <janrinok> understood - but we haven't got ubuntu into a secure state that is easy for Bytram_dewey to use yet
[14:45:33] <cmn32480> understood. I was thinking a commercial service
[14:45:44] <janrinok> and you cannot have a shared desktop before you have logged in - and it is the log in with a new desktop that we are trying to resolve
[14:45:46] <cmn32480> I'd lend you both my Amazon Chime account for the duration if needed.
[14:46:18] <cmn32480> understood.
[14:46:19] <janrinok> understood and thanks for the offer -I'm having too much fun doing it the easy way.... :)
[14:46:21] <Bytram_dewey> okay, I have scrolled down to where there are several mate-prfixxed items lists
[14:46:27] <Bytram_dewey> LOL
[14:46:31] <cmn32480> let me know if that woudl be helpful. It will take about 30 seconds to set up.
[14:46:53] <janrinok> there should only be one ubuntu-mate-desktop#
[14:47:00] <janrinok> there should only be one ubuntu-mate-desktop
[14:47:05] <Bytram_dewey> and, none of those checkbxoes are selected
[14:47:13] <janrinok> so you have not installed it yet
[14:47:34] <janrinok> I am assuming that you downloaded it, but didn't complete the installation
[14:47:57] <Bytram_dewey> those start with "mate-' ... lemme scroll down to "ubntu-" items
[14:49:01] <Bytram_dewey> correct
[14:49:08] <janrinok> I did ask you to use the 'Search' facility in Synaptic to search for the phrase ubuntu-mate-desktop which would have taken you directly there
[14:49:43] <Bytram_dewey> I just clicked the checkbox to the left of "ubuntu-mate-desktop" ant it *immediately* popped up a dialog box.
[14:49:50] <janrinok> saying?
[14:50:04] <Bytram_dewey> "Mark addiotnal required changes?"
[14:50:23] <janrinok> Mark - and it looks like you didn't download it either
[14:50:55] <Bytram_dewey> big list with two main entries "To be installed" and "To be upgraded"
[14:51:08] <janrinok> yep, you need 'em all
[14:51:25] <Bytram_dewey> Buttons: "Cancel" "Mark"
[14:51:31] <janrinok> then press the apply button
[14:51:45] <janrinok> and see how big the data will be
[14:51:48] * Bytram_dewey clicks "Mark" and bill wonders wh he gets no attention!
[14:53:07] <janrinok> and what is happening? what can you see?
[14:53:40] <Bytram_dewey> window repaints... lots of things highlighted in green.. .... 371 to install/upgrade 941 MB will be used.
[14:54:07] <janrinok> you didn't download it the other day - or if you did it wasn't on that SSD
[14:54:21] <janrinok> how much data and time have you got?
[14:54:46] <Bytram_dewey> I still have 2 GB of download avail, (15 GB - total so far this month; don'tknow how much of the 13 GB was on my phone and exempt from monthly cap)
[14:55:00] <janrinok> this is nearly a gig on its own
[14:55:03] <Bytram_dewey> I still have 2 GB of download avail, (15 GB - total so far this month; don'tknow how much of the 13 GB used so far was on my phone and exempt from monthly cap)
[14:55:17] <Bytram_dewey> not a problem at the moment
[14:55:30] <janrinok> you choice - press Apply and let it run
[14:55:38] <janrinok> your choice
[14:55:46] <Bytram_dewey> I can callthem up and change plans at any time, at no charge, to an unlimited downlod amount, but with a rate cap
[14:56:02] <janrinok> is that a significant hit?
[14:56:27] <Bytram_dewey> and then when the next billing period starts, call to have it changed back
[14:56:36] <Bytram_dewey> also at no charge
[14:56:47] <janrinok> sounds like a good offer
[14:57:13] <Bytram_dewey> yeah, except even having said that, it's gonna take a while.
[14:57:55] <Bytram_dewey> OTOH, I am *not* wanting to go out on a day like this to go somewhere else which has WiFi
[14:58:21] <janrinok> the MATE desktop is like going back to XP or whatever, but with modern software. A very intuitive interface but it is incredibly configurable. You can make it look like anything you want if you are determined enough
[14:58:26] <Bytram_dewey> So, I am ready to proceed
[14:58:37] <Bytram_dewey> k
[14:58:49] <janrinok> then proceed... press Apply or whatever it is that starts the process
[14:59:18] <Bytram_dewey> k
[15:00:10] <Bytram_dewey> just one moment
[15:01:03] <Bytram_dewey> Mobile Data Usage: 13.11 GB Used.
[15:01:21] <janrinok> cmn32480, how does Amazon Chime work - does it need a camera? (I don't have one and don't particularly want one either)
[15:01:31] * Bytram_dewey clicks Apply
[15:01:59] <janrinok> I'm looking a their web page but it looks a bit like conferencing software
[15:02:27] <Bytram_dewey> Default display manager gdm3 or lightdm?
[15:03:00] <janrinok> lightdm
[15:03:06] <Bytram_dewey> k
[15:03:51] * Bytram_dewey selects "lightdm" from drop-down-list box, and then clicks "Next" in URH corner of dialog box.
[15:04:48] <janrinok> Bytram_dewey, as a tip, just tapping 'tab' does both of those things
[15:05:09] <Bytram> k
[15:05:54] <Bytram> about 3/4 done
[15:06:02] <janrinok> what is your usual download speed - because that is pretty quick
[15:06:09] <Bytram> is very non-responsive on Dewey
[15:06:15] <janrinok> it is busy
[15:06:34] <janrinok> 2 cores 4 threads?
[15:07:31] <Bytram> on *vaerage* about 500 KB/s. Can drop into low 200 KB/s (rarely ~50KB/s depends on dest) and I've also seen sustained rates of up to 1.3 MB/s or so
[15:07:56] <Bytram> 2 cores? yes. Theads? Not sure./
[15:08:22] <janrinok> oh, it seemed faster - my daytime is about 1.2MB/s and late night gets to nearer 2MB/s
[15:08:26] <Bytram_dewey> Yay! "Changes applied"
[15:08:48] <janrinok> has it gone back to the basic synaptic display?
[15:09:03] <Bytram_dewey> "Successfully applied all changes. You can close the window now."
[15:09:12] <janrinok> close the window then
[15:09:22] <Bytram_dewey> closed.
[15:09:24] <cmn32480> janrinok - Amazon chime is similar to webex or gotomeeting. using a browser, you can see his screen, and should you so desire, there is either chat functionality or you can use mic and speakers for voice communication
[15:09:42] <Bytram_dewey> Main Synaptic window is still displayed.
[15:10:17] <Bytram_dewey> Lemme guess, shutdown, restart, and then choose mate?
[15:10:32] <janrinok> that's the plan
[15:10:34] <Bytram_dewey> k
[15:10:51] <janrinok> but you might see a few changes even as you get to the log in
[15:11:47] <Bytram_dewey> cmn32480: As convenient as that sounds, I prefer to avoid any situation where a BigCo has direct monitoring capability of my comms or even who I am communicating to. Especially big names like amazon, facebook, MS, etc
[15:12:04] <Bytram_dewey> about to shutdown
[15:12:11] <janrinok> Bytram_dewey, go ahead
[15:12:13] <cmn32480> Microsoft?
[15:13:24] <janrinok> cmn32480, ah OK, thanks for that info.
[15:13:39] * Bytram clicks restart
[15:14:09] <janrinok> let me know what the log in display looks like - you could have 1 of 2 different log in screens
[15:14:11] * Bytram sees new *green* stuff
[15:14:27] <janrinok> ah, the MATE screen - that's a good sign
[15:14:58] <Bytram> cursor did not blink. Entered Pwd and logged in as me
[15:15:08] <Bytram> YAY!
[15:15:23] <janrinok> instead of the gear wheel, cog wheel, you should now see a smal white icon (MATE icon) to let you select the MATE desktop....
[15:15:39] <janrinok> have you got a green screen or a purple screen?
[15:16:04] <Bytram> Green with lots triangles in the background
[15:16:21] <Bytram> white "circle" in center
[15:16:33] <janrinok> great - that took over an hour for a job that I thought would be a few minutes lol
[15:16:39] -!- Bytram_dewey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[15:16:42] <Bytram> with‌ cut-out circles and triangles
[15:16:52] <janrinok> right, let's get it configured how you like it
[15:17:31] <janrinok> across the very top of the screen you will see a dark bar with a menu item on the left and a notification set on the right, can you see that?
[15:17:51] <Bytram> yes
[15:18:12] * Bytram has alreadyexamined choices in URH corner
[15:18:35] <janrinok> at the moment, everything is under the Applications menu but you can easily change that to whatever you want. Let me demonstrate an example.
[15:19:03] <janrinok> Put you mouse in the middle of that dark bar, and right click, a menu should pop up
[15:19:23] <Bytram> k
[15:19:34] <janrinok> select Add to Panel
[15:20:02] <janrinok> and yet another menu pops up, the second item of which is Application Launcher... press that
[15:20:03] <Bytram> so this is analagous to adding items to a Window's Desktop?
[15:20:08] <janrinok> similar
[15:20:18] * Bytram almost never uses those....
[15:20:42] * Bytram is prefers: open the main menu icon and navigate from there
[15:20:43] <janrinok> and then press the Add button at the bottom of that menu
[15:20:51] <janrinok> yes but there is more...
[15:21:21] <Bytram> done and done
[15:21:36] <Bytram> "Find an item to add to panel"
[15:22:17] <janrinok> move down to where you will find Administration, and then select Synaptic from the sub-menu
[15:22:47] <Bytram> found and selected
[15:22:50] <janrinok> click on the Add button again
[15:24:02] <janrinok> and close. You should now have the synaptic icon on the top bar which ,if you click it, will open synaptic. You can put bars anywhere you like on the edges of the screen, and make you own shortcuts to your own scripts.
[15:24:03] <Bytram> I did. Nothing happened. Maybe I miss-clicked. Clicked it again. ANd *THEN* I noticd I kow what *two* little folders in the middle of thetop "menu" bar
[15:24:45] <janrinok> ok did you close the menu too?
[15:24:51] * Bytram right-clicked second one, choswe reemove from pop-up menu... gopne
[15:24:58] <janrinok> nurse is here - brb
[15:25:03] <Bytram> k
[15:25:21] <Bytram> How 'bout a 10 minute break or so?
[15:25:25] <Bytram> afk
[15:32:10] <janrinok> ok
[15:32:56] <janrinok> --------------------
[15:33:47] <janrinok> there was a method in my apparent madness - we are going to add the palemoon repository to synaptic so that we can a. install palemoon, and b. keep it updated automatically
[15:36:16] <Bytram> Strange... Phone is *still* showing Mobile Data Usage at 13.11 GB
[15:36:20] <Bytram> ???
[15:36:20] <janrinok> your current default browser is Firefox but we can change that to PaleMoon if you so wish
[15:36:26] <Bytram> k
[15:36:40] <Bytram> Now I am a bit nervous.
[15:36:53] <janrinok> ok, lets try this from a different angle - but why are you nervous?
[15:37:54] <Bytram> I am going to call my provider and get what they see my usage is. There is a charge for going over... I dont't recall exactly, but some $$ per data amount.
[15:38:45] <janrinok> ah, OK - I have to go out in about 30-40 minutes or so, but give them a call before we download PaleMoon
[15:39:04] <Bytram> k
[15:39:48] * janrinok remembers that tonight is pizza night - no cooking but have to go and get the pizzas. No such thing as home delivery in rural France
[15:40:11] <Bytram> k
[15:40:32] <janrinok> are you going to phone now or later?
[15:40:54] <Bytram> calling right noew
[15:41:13] <janrinok> k
[15:43:28] <Bytram> i now have 2.24 gb avail
[15:45:11] <janrinok> so do you want to continue?
[15:46:30] <janrinok> if so, find FF in your applications menu and then goto https://software.opensuse.org
[15:48:45] <Bytram> yes... PM
[15:49:17] <Bytram> i 3was told I have used 12.24 GB tetherted so far
[15:50:42] <Bytram> okay I'm back
[15:50:43] <janrinok> Synaptic uses official respositories, but there are also secure and recognised repos that you can add to Synaptic's list of sources. We are going to add one for PM to synaptic, or any of the software managers that you have in Ubuntu in fact
[15:50:53] <Bytram> k
[15:51:13] <janrinok> so got the url above - if you click it ubuntu will open it FF anyway
[15:51:14] <Bytram> I am aware of "alternate repos"
[15:51:20] <janrinok> k
[15:51:23] <Bytram> k
[15:51:39] <janrinok> let me know when you have that url displayed
[15:52:14] <Bytram> cannot click (IRC is on different lappy) /me launches FF
[15:52:29] <janrinok> ah yes, sorry
[15:52:34] <Bytram> np
[15:52:51] <janrinok> search for palemoon steve pusser and it will take you there
[15:53:11] <janrinok> google is your friend
[15:55:34] <Bytram> would not load... trying again usoing search
[15:56:03] * janrinok is glad that fnord is doing a good job of keeping the queues full while we are sorting Bytram's lappies out
[15:56:32] <Bytram> phone call
[15:56:36] <janrinok> lol
[16:05:38] <Bytram> all righty then! I'm back
[16:06:08] <Bytram> I've got the link in my FF browser... now what?
[16:06:36] <janrinok> you should see the two icons - debian and ubuntu - guess which one you click....
[16:06:37] <Bytram> okay... looks like I shoujld go to that site
[16:06:51] <Bytram> clicky
[16:07:20] <Bytram> "server not found"...
[16:07:24] * Bytram is going to try a pinmg
[16:07:46] <janrinok> which page are you on - it is 'up' for me
[16:08:18] <Bytram> name or service not found
[16:08:38] <janrinok> does the url match the one I typed above?
[16:08:52] <janrinok> just copy/pasta
[16:09:07] <Bytram> I did...
[16:09:17] <Bytram> same from the searh results
[16:09:21] <Bytram> and same for th ping
[16:09:52] <Bytram> but, I can successfully ping sylnt.us
[16:09:58] <janrinok> it works for me
[16:10:02] <Bytram> k
[16:10:39] <janrinok> ah, of course, you have IRC on a different machine, you can't just copy/pasta
[16:10:47] <Bytram> yep
[16:10:55] <janrinok> suspect a typo
[16:10:56] <Bytram> so I did the search u suggestwd
[16:10:59] <Bytram> saw same URL
[16:11:03] <Bytram> tried that
[16:11:05] <Bytram> no joy
[16:11:54] <Bytram> traceroute? is that what it is called 'here'?
[16:11:56] <janrinok> try opening it on huey to see if it is a DNS problem
[16:12:00] <Bytram> k
[16:12:37] <janrinok> should just be a simple click
[16:12:52] <Bytram> yep
[16:13:02] <janrinok> works ok?
[16:13:17] <Bytram> "Pale Moon can't find the server at software.opensuse.org.
[16:13:35] <janrinok> have you copied the https too
[16:13:44] <Bytram> yes
[16:13:52] <Bytram> URL: https://software.opensuse.org
[16:14:42] <janrinok> I wonder if you have cloudflare interfering somewhere...?
[16:15:04] <Bytram> On huey: tracert software.opensuse.org
[16:15:18] <Bytram> Unable to resolve target system name software.opensuse.org.
[16:15:30] <Bytram> hmmm
[16:15:48] <Bytram> whois? https://software.opensuse.org.
[16:16:08] <Bytram> whois? https://soylentnews.org
[16:17:21] <janrinok> what reply did you get from you whois?
[16:18:05] <Bytram> FWIW. in #editorial, upstart (aka systemd) could resolve both of 'em
[16:18:26] <janrinok> strange
[16:19:09] <janrinok> incidentally, on ubuntu it is tracert6, which is installed from package ndisc6
[16:19:16] <Bytram> that means that SoylentNews's server can see both of them... but I cannot
[16:19:26] <Bytram> ok
[16:19:35] <Bytram> what abut IPv4 /
[16:19:37] <Bytram> ??
[16:20:03] <janrinok> don't know - we are all IP6 over here
[16:20:14] <Bytram> k
[16:20:37] -!- Bytram_dewey [Bytram_dewey!~a6b6f931@15-715-653-137.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #qa
[16:20:53] <Bytram_dewey> martyb@E6410-001:~$ traceroute6 software.opensuse.org traceroute: software.opensuse.org: Name or service not known martyb@E6410-001:~$
[16:21:29] <Bytram_dewey> #yt you can't get there from here
[16:21:30] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- You Can&#39;t Get There From Here with Charls Carroll 5
[16:21:40] <Bytram_dewey> nooo...
[16:21:44] <Bytram_dewey> #yt you can't get there from here Bert
[16:21:44] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Bert and I
[16:21:58] <Bytram_dewey> ^^^ that's the one!!!
[16:22:13] <Bytram_dewey> hmm
[16:22:15] <janrinok> gtg for pizzas
[16:22:26] <Bytram_dewey> k
[16:22:32] <janrinok> back on in an hour or so?
[16:22:55] <Bytram_dewey> thanks so much for ALL of you r help and even more importantly, PATIENCE!!!!
[16:23:01] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok++
[16:23:29] <janrinok> np - it can be frustrating, but it is a long time since I have done long-range installations, so it is also challenging too
[16:23:35] <Bytram_dewey> dang! Why will the bots not join this channel even when they have been invited?
[16:23:47] <janrinok> praps they are not speaking to us
[16:24:16] <Bytram_dewey> Yeah, I've done remote software debugging... is time-consuming, challenging, and can be quite frustrating!
[16:24:20] <janrinok> there is a solution - for later
[16:24:34] <Bytram_dewey> Hence why I *SO* appreciate your help!
[16:25:02] <janrinok> we can install an openssh-server on your machine and, if you agree, I can ssh in from here and type the commands from this end to operate on dewey
[16:25:15] <Bytram_dewey> I'll see what online network tools have to show about the opensuse site and see if that helps me from this end.
[16:25:29] <janrinok> lol - back in a wee while
[16:25:52] <Bytram_dewey> nod nod... I already have an ssh client on huey (putty) and a public/private key pair there
[16:26:08] <Bytram_dewey> ciao (chow?) for now!
[16:26:11] <Bytram_dewey> ;)
[16:40:10] <Bytram> =ping opensuse.org
[16:40:10] <systemd> Pong!
[16:40:13] <Bytram> LOL
[16:40:25] <Bytram> =ping software.opensuse.org
[16:40:25] <systemd> Pong!
[16:40:38] <Bytram> =tracert software.opensuse.org
[16:40:47] <Bytram> test++
[16:47:59] <Bytram_dewey> so far, no joy. I am starting to thing the power outages I had this morning may have caused some kind of issues with my connection to the cell tower? Am going to power-cycle my phone and see if that helps... restarting palemoon on Huey caused no improvement
[16:48:12] <Bytram_dewey> biab
[16:50:05] <Bytram> fwiw, phone uptime: 97h26m
[16:50:21] <Bytram> here we go!
[16:52:45] -!- Bytram_dewey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[16:57:39] -!- Bytram_dewey [Bytram_dewey!~a6b6fa4f@14-890-772-751.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #qa
[16:58:33] <Bytram_dewey> Hmmm I have not yet seen any improvement after powering my cell phone off and powering it back on
[17:13:24] <Bytram> https://www.net.princeton.edu
[17:14:25] <Bytram> =g is a site up or down?
[17:14:26] <systemd> https://www.isitdownrightnow.com - Is It Down Right Now? Website Down or Not?
[17:15:23] <Bytram> https://www.isitdownrightnow.com
[17:16:16] <Bytram> opensuse.org
[17:16:22] <Bytram> https://opensuse.org
[17:16:42] <Bytram> grrr... bot does not work here...
[17:17:13] * Bytram heads over to #editorial (bot does not work here)
[17:30:13] <Bytram> .
[17:30:25] <Bytram> Let's try another approach:
[17:30:32] <Bytram> https://linux.palemoon.org
[17:30:44] <Bytram> https://software.opensuse.org
[17:31:52] <Bytram> and *that* redirects me to... https://software.opensuse.org
[17:31:56] <Bytram> again.
[17:31:58] <Bytram> :/
[17:47:00] <Bytram> FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: https://www.microsoft.com
[17:48:04] -!- systemd has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[17:52:26] <janrinok> type the following into a terminal, in sequence:
[17:52:47] <janrinok> sudo sh -c "echo 'deb http://download.opensuse.org /' > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/home:stevenpusser.list"
[17:52:51] <janrinok> wget -nv https://download.opensuse.org -O Release.key
[17:53:03] <janrinok> sudo apt-key add - < Release.key
[17:53:21] <janrinok> sudo apt-get update
[17:53:38] <janrinok> sudo apt-get install palemoon
[17:53:57] <janrinok> cut and paste them because the quote marks are important
[17:54:46] <janrinok> make sure that synaptic is NOT open otherwise they will not be able to execute - access to the repos will be locked by synaptic
[17:55:27] <janrinok> I know it says xUbuntu - don't worry it doesn't change how it installs
[17:55:33] <Bytram_dewey> wget: unable to resolve host address ‘download.opensuse.org’
[17:55:46] <Bytram_dewey> same problem as before :/
[17:55:55] <janrinok> ok, I'll get the key
[17:56:10] <Bytram_dewey> hold on...
[17:56:43] <Bytram_dewey> I just remembered I had previously downloaded pale moon onto my phone... trying to locate it now
[17:56:57] <janrinok> ah, the site is down for me now - no idea why
[17:58:10] <janrinok> back in 5
[17:58:12] <Bytram_dewey> okay... I *know* the file is on my phone, but a USB transfer is just *NOT* working.
[17:58:30] <Bytram_dewey> Ugh, and it was downloaded to *internal* storage*
[17:58:51] <Bytram_dewey> hmmm
[17:59:43] <Bytram_dewey> =g palemoon-28.8.3.linux-x86_64.tar.xz
[17:59:54] <Bytram_dewey> #g palemoon-28.8.3.linux-x86_64.tar.xz
[17:59:55] <MrPlow> https://aur.archlinux.org - "Jun 3, 2014 ... Package Details: palemoon-bin 28.8.3-1 ... (i686); https://linux.palemoon.org (x86_64) ..."
[18:00:15] <Bytram_dewey> !!! will *thgat* work?
[18:01:01] <Bytram_dewey> and here it comes!
[18:01:27] <Bytram_dewey> seconds
[18:01:33] <Bytram_dewey> 15 seconds
[18:01:41] <Bytram_dewey> done
[18:01:48] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: ^^^
[18:04:09] <Bytram_dewey> You are probably still eating... which sounds like something I should have done a long while ago!
[18:06:17] <janrinok> no, we've finished eating but I'm helping S clean her teeth and settle her down with her TV for the evening
[18:07:20] <Bytram_dewey> so sorry to interrupt! I thnk I've got it... just need to expand the .xz file
[18:07:43] <Bytram_dewey> #g expand .xz file linux
[18:07:44] <MrPlow> https://linux-tips.com - "Aug 21, 2015 ... I can extract .tar.xz files with xf parameters below: $ tar xf file.tar.xz But, what is the correct way to extract single .xz files in console?"
[18:08:07] <Bytram_dewey> LOL, but good enough!
[18:08:42] <janrinok> I didn't think that the bots were working on here...
[18:08:57] <Bytram_dewey> tar -xvf palemoon-28.8.3.linux-x86_64.tar.xz
[18:09:11] <Bytram_dewey> most are not, but somehow TMBs is
[18:09:14] <Bytram_dewey> ~blame
[18:09:15] * exec points at Bytram
[18:09:18] <Bytram_dewey> and exec
[18:09:30] <Bytram_dewey> tar -xvf palemoon-28.8.3.linux-x86_64.tar.xz
[18:11:13] <janrinok> got it!
[18:11:20] <cmn32480> it's QA... no bot restrictions
[18:11:47] <cmn32480> also Loggie... and I think wheatle y is a bot too
[18:13:17] <janrinok> key sent to you by email via SN
[18:14:07] <janrinok> Bytram_dewey, ping ^
[18:14:29] <Bytram_dewey> yes, I saw
[18:14:32] <janrinok> k
[18:14:46] <Bytram_dewey> I had previously downloaded Pale Moon to my phone..
[18:14:58] <Bytram_dewey> I have finally got it onto this lappy Dewey
[18:15:07] <Bytram_dewey> and am now tryoing to find the actual xecutable
[18:15:39] <janrinok> is your phone x64?
[18:16:13] <janrinok> and is it using the same version of libs as 18.04?
[18:17:42] <Bytram> #g palemoon-28.8.3.linux-x86_64.tar.xz
[18:17:43] <MrPlow> https://aur.archlinux.org - "Jun 3, 2014 ... Package Details: palemoon-bin 28.8.3-1 ... (i686); https://linux.palemoon.org (x86_64) ..."
[18:18:42] <janrinok> I recommend ok, but that will not auto update using synaptic - but it should install manually
[18:19:39] <janrinok> depends which library it was compiled against in ArchLinux
[18:19:51] <janrinok> you cannot usually mix different distros
[18:20:56] -!- Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo [Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo!~a6b6fa4f@14-890-772-751.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #qa
[18:21:21] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> janrinok: Hi there!
[18:21:37] <janrinok> I take it is working then :)
[18:21:51] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> =) =) =)
[18:21:58] <cmn32480> he's a white cow now?
[18:22:26] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> cmn32480++ Just a pale shadow of my former self
[18:23:10] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> Whew! When the proper repositories come back, I can change to a proper repo, then
[18:23:14] <janrinok> i'm going to have to reconfigure my hexchat display so that I can fit Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo name on the screen
[18:23:40] <cmn32480> quit miliking it!
[18:23:48] <janrinok> pull the udder one
[18:23:55] <cmn32480> udderly rediculous...
[18:23:58] <janrinok> or I'm going to hoof it
[18:24:58] <Bytram_dewey> just so I can locate it later (and I am not at all sure how it ended up there) but I am now running: ~/bin/PaleMoon/palemoon/palemoon
[18:25:14] <janrinok> ok, I let you enjoy your PM for a few minutes
[18:25:44] <Bytram_dewey> Now that *that* is accomplished, I have had nothing to at so far today and my stomach is making noises. biab
[18:25:47] <janrinok> if it is user installed it should live in /usr/bin.... but if it works who cares?
[18:26:18] <janrinok> check your Applications menu - Internet and see if it shows up there
[18:26:22] <Bytram_dewey> atm, nobody else is gonna run it... and if I need to move it, is easy enough to do
[18:26:35] <janrinok> yes but other programs will not find it
[18:26:52] <janrinok> so it might not autostart when you click on a link etc
[18:26:57] <Bytram_dewey> Pale Moon DOES NOT apear under Internet
[18:27:07] <janrinok> thought not...
[18:27:26] <Bytram_dewey> means I have not accidentally tromped on somethign else, to.
[18:27:55] <janrinok> because it has been installed manually. Remember when I was showing you how to put icons on the top bar - you have just found your first candidate
[18:27:57] <Bytram_dewey> WOuld love to continue this chat but i *really* need to get something to eat!
[18:28:03] <Bytram_dewey> nod nod
[18:28:04] <janrinok> go eat
[18:28:06] <Bytram_dewey> laters
[18:28:13] <janrinok> laters
[18:28:41] <cmn32480> laters
[18:51:32] -!- systemd [systemd!~systemd@pid1] has joined #qa
[18:52:04] <Bytram> =llist
[18:52:08] <Bytram> =list
[18:52:13] <Bytram> =
[18:52:18] <Bytram> =help
[18:52:19] <systemd> blame, caps, cite, contribute, declinectl, declined, do, doi, dump, folding-rank, g, gcctl, join, nick, notes, part, rehashctl, save, say, sedctl, sub, submit, taco, tacoctl, threadcount, y, yt, gday
[18:53:56] <janrinok> I've got a .deb of palemoon (42.1MB) got any ideas on how to get it to you...?
[18:54:54] <janrinok> can you access IP6 from your browser or are you stuck with IP4?
[18:57:26] <chromas> =enable titles
[18:57:26] <systemd> k
[18:57:28] <chromas> http://download.opensuse.org
[18:57:29] <systemd> ^ 03Index of /repositories/home:/stevenpusser/xUbuntu_19.10/i386
[18:57:35] <chromas> palem oon .deb
[18:57:54] <Bytram_dewey> =help
[18:58:01] <janrinok> don't load 19.10 - it is incompatible with 18.04
[18:58:17] <chromas> Ah; I wasn't sure which you were doing
[18:58:21] <janrinok> use the xUbuntu_18.04 option
[18:58:23] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> k
[18:58:27] <chromas> http://download.opensuse.org
[18:58:27] <systemd> ^ 03Index of /repositories/home:/stevenpusser/xUbuntu_19.04/i386
[18:58:28] <chromas> palem oon .deb
[18:58:47] <janrinok> that is still wrong 18 rpt 18
[18:59:25] <chromas> oh, mis-edited. I should become an editor or something
[18:59:41] <janrinok> lol - not sure that you would pass the training ;)
[18:59:42] <chromas> well anyhow, you can plug in your version number
[18:59:46] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> for the time being, I am happy with what i got... Will fix later when I have more time
[19:00:10] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> chromas: sorry, but I need to confirm if I found a bug
[19:00:12] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> =join
[19:00:23] <chromas> You did. Already fixed
[19:00:29] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> chromas++
[19:00:48] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> and... still no Bender :/
[19:01:33] <chromas> 'twas a range violation, checking buffer[0] on a 0-length string. I replaced it with .startsWith()
[19:01:43] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> =)
[19:02:11] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> So... if I were to try any other of its commands with no parameters? ;)
[19:02:11] <janrinok> that looks like D - it is the same as python
[19:03:00] <chromas> go fer it. That particular line was checking for =join ,0 which would make it part all channels
[19:03:40] <chromas> Also yes, D
[19:03:49] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> and, in about 200 years we will be talking about the programming language (z++)^eiPi
[19:03:50] <janrinok> Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo, do you use ssh on huey?
[19:04:14] <Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo> not that far along yet
[19:04:33] <janrinok> how do you ssh into the SN servers?
[19:04:46] <janrinok> ah, you go through kerberos
[19:05:01] <Bytram_dewey> on *Huey* using Putty
[19:05:41] <janrinok> that'll do. sudo apt install openssh-server and you will be able to transfer data directly between the the 2 machines
[19:05:45] <Bytram_dewey> =g PuTTY
[19:05:46] <systemd> https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk - PuTTY: a free SSH and Telnet client
[19:06:04] <Bytram_dewey> ^^^ that one, if I am not mistaken
[19:06:07] <Bytram_dewey> brb
[19:06:31] <janrinok> will save you time transferring you PM bookmarks, moving scripts, etc
[19:06:52] <chromas> Now you can just open up any terminal and get to work
[19:07:59] <janrinok> chromas, every time I mention work he disappears again
[19:08:48] <chromas> It's very convenient timing. You'll hae to trick hm somehow
[19:08:55] <janrinok> only 50 minutes to my bedtime - and I am knackered today
[19:09:25] <Bytram_dewey> FYI; I already have a public/private key pair created for PuTTY; would prefer to bring those over, if I can
[19:09:43] <janrinok> chromas, you are mistyping directly into Glaswegian It is perfectly correct
[19:10:13] <janrinok> do what I said a few lines up - sudo apt install openssh-server
[19:10:15] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: then let's call it a good day then. We got Mate up and running, Pale Moon, though not ideal, is up and running, too!
[19:10:46] <janrinok> make an old man happy - install ssh server!
[19:11:05] <cmn32480> I think that might apply to both of you.
[19:11:10] <Bytram_dewey> Hey! You calling me old!?!!!
[19:11:17] <cmn32480> yes.
[19:11:30] <janrinok> then you will have to modify your hosts file with all these new box names and IPs
[19:12:02] <janrinok> I was meaning me - but if he thinks he is getting old, then he IS getting old
[19:12:09] * cmn32480 looks around for APK and his hosts file...
[19:12:40] <janrinok> I'll put a comment on a random story asking for help with my hosts file - he'll pop up in minutes
[19:13:13] <Bytram_dewey> lol
[19:13:17] <Bytram_dewey> installing
[19:13:21] <Bytram_dewey> done
[19:13:28] <janrinok> do I believe him....?
[19:14:14] <janrinok> then run ssh-keygen (NOT sudo) to generate your private and public keys
[19:14:16] <cmn32480> nope
[19:15:19] <Bytram_dewey> newbie question -- what about the private and public keys I already have on Hewey that PuTTY uses?
[19:15:22] <janrinok> you can now spend the rest of your day getting them to talk to each other. It is a 5 minute job, and with our success rate today you should get it done in 5 hours
[19:15:51] <Bytram_dewey> What an optimist!!!
[19:16:18] <janrinok> yes you can use those ~/.ssh/ gives you all the keys and auths lists
[19:16:52] <janrinok> ~ will get you to your own home directory from anywhere
[19:17:27] <janrinok> put the same public and private keys in there and you should be golden
[19:18:19] <janrinok> I've got no idea how to route ssh into you network via a bloody telephone!
[19:18:54] <janrinok> how do you tell the telephone which machine handles ssh from outside?
[19:19:42] <Bytram_dewey> dir
[19:19:43] * janrinok thinks it must emulate a router somehow but he doesn't even know where to start looking
[19:20:29] <janrinok> but you should be good for inter-box comms
[19:21:10] <cmn32480> as an experienced network guy... I agree... no idea how tro make the getting in from outside via a p[hone thing work.
[19:21:34] <cmn32480> leave it to bytram to be difficult!
[19:21:42] * Bytram_dewey is reviewing the notes he made when he set up keys for PuTTY
[19:21:53] <janrinok> at least he is consistent - he is always difficult
[19:22:11] <cmn32480> yep
[19:22:22] <janrinok> I'm sitting back ready to answer sensible questions....
[19:22:34] <janrinok> cmn32480, no not you!
[19:22:36] <cmn32480> then why are you involved with this lot?
[19:22:42] <janrinok> gotcha
[19:23:07] <janrinok> I can sit back anywhere - I have previously based a career on it
[19:23:16] <cmn32480> true
[19:23:26] <Bytram_dewey> *laughter*
[19:23:33] <cmn32480> but here... sensible questions are nearly non-existent.
[19:23:38] <Bytram_dewey> I have found my PuTTY keys...
[19:23:46] <Bytram_dewey> on Hewey
[19:23:54] <cmn32480> hopefully they aren't play doh
[19:24:26] <janrinok> I was always trained to think about problems before they occur - man, can I dream up some doozies (sp) of a problem
[19:24:41] <cmn32480> never figured on bytram did you?
[19:24:55] <Bytram_dewey> FWIW, that was back on 2014-03-23
[19:25:17] <janrinok> no, they told me to keep it within the realms of possibilty - they obviously didn't know him
[19:25:46] <Bytram_dewey> My nickname should prolly be "Tigger" 'cause "I'm the only one!"
[19:26:03] <cmn32480> or Thanos
[19:26:07] <janrinok> see, he is actually proud of what he hasn't achieved
[19:27:29] <Bytram_dewey> ssh-keygen
[19:27:43] <janrinok> wait for it.....
[19:28:00] <Bytram_dewey> nter file in which to save the key (/home/martyb/.ssh/id_rsa):
[19:28:07] <janrinok> press enter
[19:28:10] * Bytram_dewey presses enter to accept the default
[19:28:32] <janrinok> same for the next question too
[19:28:38] <Bytram_dewey> Enter passphrase (empty for no passphrase):
[19:28:45] <janrinok> press enter
[19:28:55] <Bytram_dewey> Is this what I would type when initiaing a c
[19:29:03] <Bytram_dewey> Is this what I would type when initiaing a connection?
[19:29:11] <janrinok> if they have access to your computer all hope is lost
[19:29:17] <janrinok> never again
[19:30:05] <janrinok> once you have your keys set up you give them to someone else by either printing or ssh-copy-id [machinename]
[19:30:26] <Bytram_dewey> I have a long passphrase for SN servers and am accustomed to using that whenever I need access to one of our servers. I have no qualms about using it here, too. But I need toknow if this is the place where I should enter it.
[19:30:41] <Bytram_dewey> let me rephrase...
[19:30:47] <Bytram_dewey> i launch PuTTY
[19:30:51] <Bytram_dewey> choose a profile\
[19:30:56] <Bytram_dewey> click connect
[19:31:27] <Bytram_dewey> am asked for a password... is that what this is askig for here?
[19:31:32] <janrinok> nope
[19:31:35] <Bytram_dewey> k
[19:31:58] <Bytram_dewey> In that case, Enter it is to accept the default of no passphrase.
[19:32:17] <Bytram_dewey> Enter same passphrase again:
[19:32:25] * Bytram_dewey presses Enter again
[19:32:27] <janrinok> if you are doing a connection to another machine you simply type ssh [machinename] or maybe username@machinename
[19:32:39] <janrinok> same for the next question too
[19:32:55] <janrinok> just keep pressing enter until it or you gets bored
[19:33:05] <Bytram_dewey> The key's randomart image is:
[19:33:13] <Bytram_dewey> and I am now back at the command prompt
[19:33:18] <janrinok> pretty isn't it?
[19:33:35] <Bytram_dewey> Woo Hoo! Mighty purdy!
[19:33:58] <janrinok> done. Now you should be able to putty into dewey providing that you know the IP addresses of individual machines
[19:35:11] <janrinok> back in 5
[19:36:01] <Bytram_dewey> I have dynamic IPs and the only connections between them atm isovr the pubic internet - I havve not yet set up a local LAN
[19:37:17] <cmn32480> <facepalm>
[19:40:16] <janrinok> lol - you couldn't have made it any more difficult could you?
[19:40:18] <Bytram_dewey> cmn32480: Wha? Up until a few days ago, I only had *one* working PC. What would I need a *network* for?
[19:40:39] <Bytram_dewey> Right?
[19:41:23] <cmn32480> meh... sorta
[19:41:42] <janrinok> have you got a cat 5 cable - you can probably connect them directly because all of my connections handle crossovers automatically
[19:41:55] <cmn32480> I also suggest that you might invest in PDANet from June Fabrics. It allows you to hid your tether usage.
[19:41:58] <Bytram_dewey> Granted, I had some *much* older boxes that had long since been sjreceded,but all their contents had been transfered over tothe new machinek each and every time.
[19:43:11] <janrinok> if you type ifconfig at the command prompt in ubuntu it will tell you your IP address
[19:43:35] <janrinok> I think on win it is ipconfig
[19:43:37] <cmn32480> if you are't connected to the hotspot, you can conenct on the 169.254 addresses
[19:43:44] <cmn32480> correct
[19:43:50] * cmn32480 awards janrinok 2 points
[19:44:05] <Bytram_dewey> At least in *that* realm I am well prepared. I have a desk about 3 feet deep by 5 feet wide, on great big casters, monitor is on a heavy beam supported off the desk so there is plenty of room under that to run cables and things to the and fro between the boxes and tothe shelf below it where I have my UPS's and printer
[19:44:10] * janrinok saves them in his pocket
[19:44:34] * Bytram_dewey catches a falling star
[19:44:46] <janrinok> ... and there is a glow from the single wall connector that they are all plugged in to....
[19:45:10] * Bytram_dewey has also, purchased (just a couple months ago) an 8-port Linksys switch
[19:45:53] <cmn32480> you are still looking at static IP's or runnign a DHCP serveron one of the boxen
[19:45:56] <Bytram_dewey> just have not had these extra lappys in a state where I could even think of linking them up... heck, they did not even have disk drves!
[19:46:47] <janrinok> well, as you know, we are always here to help, advise, and mock your efforts relentlessly
[19:47:17] <cmn32480> mostly the last one
[19:47:22] <janrinok> well I am, cmn32480 might genuinely care, but I only do it for the laughs
[19:47:33] <Bytram_dewey> ATM, the only IP addresses that I am aware of are the one for my public facing side, which i can retrieve
[19:47:47] <cmn32480> ok
[19:47:56] <cmn32480> there are 3 internal IP ranges to choose from
[19:47:59] <janrinok> each of the boxes will have an IP
[19:48:07] <cmn32480>
[19:48:13] <Bytram> I normally use: https://www.nirsoft.net
[19:48:14] <systemd> ^ 03Your external IP address is
[19:48:19] <janrinok> sorry - I leave it to cmn32480 - this is his area
[19:48:41] <Bytram> I am alos quite well fmiliar with the use of 192.168.x.x for local addresses
[19:48:49] <cmn32480>
[19:48:57] <Bytram> ^^^ what he said
[19:49:32] <cmn32480> and
[19:49:38] <cmn32480> pick your range
[19:49:43] <cmn32480> I don't care whcihc one.
[19:49:46] <Bytram> which means I have on the order of 64K addresses availble to me?
[19:50:05] <Bytram> ignoring gateway ad other reserved addys
[19:50:10] <cmn32480> but the /16 is 65024
[19:50:23] <cmn32480> the /12 is 1,048,544
[19:50:29] <Bytram> meaning htere arwe 512 reserved for other uses
[19:50:34] <Bytram> k
[19:50:36] <cmn32480> the /8 is 16,777,214
[19:50:57] <cmn32480> you have PLENTY to chosoe from.
[19:51:08] <cmn32480> and tehyshoudl NOT match the IP that your hotspot gives out
[19:51:19] <cmn32480> otherwise things get ugly.
[19:51:27] <janrinok> 16,777,214 is enough for anybody - Bill Gates probably
[19:51:56] <Bytram> so, the /xx tells me how many of the leftmost bits of the adddy are fixesd for that 'subnet'(?) and the rest of the addys are for me to assign as i need (barring reserved addrrsses?)
[19:52:01] <cmn32480> if you are using them on an air gapped network, you can subdivide into whatever size inside those ranges that you'ld like
[19:52:13] <cmn32480> =g cidr table
[19:52:14] <Bytram> nice. makes sense
[19:52:14] <systemd> https://docs.netgate.com - Networking Concepts — Understanding CIDR Subnet Mask ...
[19:52:39] <cmn32480> the CIDR table tells youw hat the netmask shoudl be.
[19:52:54] <cmn32480> the smaller the subnet, the better off you are going to be.
[19:52:58] <Bytram> k
[19:53:03] <Bytram> =g CIDR
[19:53:04] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Classless Inter-Domain Routing - Wikipedia
[19:53:16] <Bytram> yeah, I knew htat!
[19:53:26] <cmn32480> less time listening for random stuff on a hug subnet that only has 4 things on it.
[19:53:36] <Bytram> nodnod
[19:53:37] <cmn32480> and less chance of broadcast storms
[19:53:51] <cmn32480> not that I think that will be an issue with only 4 devices... but whatever
[19:54:16] * Bytram can only think of a couple places where he ever used anything other that 192...
[19:54:29] <Bytram> kay
[19:54:31] <cmn32480> my house in not a 192
[19:54:32] <Bytram> 192.168
[19:54:38] <cmn32480> my office is not a 192
[19:54:41] <Bytram>
[19:54:56] <cmn32480> if you use 192.168.1.x it will be a /24
[19:55:00] <cmn32480> 256 addresses
[19:55:15] <Bytram> I was previously aware of
[19:55:19] <cmn32480> /24 =
[19:55:38] <cmn32480> all my netowkrs are subnetted 10.x.y.z
[19:55:40] <Bytram> the other one Iprolly had previously heard of but do not recall ever using before.
[19:56:26] <Bytram> 3-level tree, conceptually and.. logically/
[19:56:32] <Bytram> ??
[19:56:33] <janrinok> Bytram, remember printer, mobile devices, smart tvs
[19:56:50] <Bytram> janrinok: I am aware...
[19:56:56] <chromas> IoT toilet paper dispensers
[19:57:00] <janrinok> you might want to communicate with more than just 4 computers
[19:57:14] <Bytram> TV is only accessed thu the HDMIports; has never been connected to the internet
[19:57:18] <cmn32480> fridgerators that report back their temperatures and play netflix on their displays
[19:57:25] <janrinok> lol
[19:57:37] <cmn32480> I suggest a /24
[19:57:37] <Bytram> mobile phone has always only been connected over USB
[19:57:44] <Bytram> printer hasbeen over USB, as well
[19:57:49] <Bytram> k
[19:58:08] <cmn32480> gives you expansion room, and you will liekly never exceed it
[19:58:32] <cmn32480> unless you get a real internet connection and a web controlled toilet paper dispenser as chromas indicated
[19:58:33] <Bytram> I think that ... shold cover my needs quite passably
[19:59:26] <Bytram> at *tht* pnt, I'll prolly be on IPv6 and have a few ... billion?? trillion?? local addresses for me to choose from!
[20:01:01] <janrinok> time for my bed
[20:01:12] <janrinok> have a good one guys, cu tomorrow
[20:01:27] <cmn32480> ~gnight janrinook
[20:01:28] * exec gaily inserts a container of horney hornets into janrinook
[20:01:33] <cmn32480> ~gnight janrinok
[20:01:35] * exec unknowingly crossbreeds two fingers of XP with janrinok
[20:01:41] <Bytram> I am guessing that one of the first orders of business when it comes to networking is to get the switch put of the box, and each of the PCs connected to it... even if I do *NOT* power uop the switch. Get he physicalplant in place, first.
[20:01:42] <cmn32480> thanks for the help mocking bytram!
[20:01:49] <Bytram> ~gnight janrinok
[20:01:50] * exec theoretically duplicates a goblet of scrambled eggs for janrinok
[20:02:06] <janrinok> np - I enjoyed it immensely
[20:02:07] <Bytram> ^^^ resembles my brains ;)
[20:02:20] <Bytram> You two!!
[20:02:29] <janrinok> byeeeeee
[20:02:36] <cmn32480> bytram - Correct. Get the switch in place, cables, and power it on.
[20:02:44] <Bytram> but serisly, thanks so much for all the help.
[20:02:51] <cmn32480> the PC's will get a 169.25.x.y address from the network connection as tehre is no DHCP
[20:03:36] <cmn32480> *169.254
[20:03:45] <Bytram> I am vaguely familiar with the ISO levels of networking from the low-level voltage signalling working its way up to the applications running over, say, TCP/IP
[20:03:56] <Bytram> If that helps at all.
[20:04:29] <Bytram> I thnk I would be doing level..2? 3?.. at thst point, before I turn things on?
[20:04:51] <cmn32480> just remember.. the cables are all one way. the ends only fit the switch or the PC
[20:04:55] * Bytram is just guessing.
[20:05:06] <Bytram> #smake cmn32480
[20:05:06] * MrPlow smakes cmn32480 upside the head with a thousand jihads
[20:05:19] <cmn32480> Layer 7 - Application.
[20:05:20] <cmn32480> Layer 6 - Presentation.
[20:05:20] <cmn32480> Layer 5 - Session.
[20:05:20] <cmn32480> Layer 4 - Transport.
[20:05:20] <cmn32480> Layer 3 - Network.
[20:05:22] <cmn32480> Layer 2 - Data Link.
[20:05:23] <cmn32480> Layer 1 - Physical.
[20:05:35] <Bytram> yuppers, thanks!
[20:06:20] <Bytram> reminds me of my setting up DVD player for my dad. Got all the cables connected from the box to the TV, unit plugged in, battery in the remote, and giving a quick demo with his first DVD.
[20:06:53] <Bytram> I explained the various buttons on the remote. Fwd, Rev, Eject, PLay, ffwd, etc.
[20:07:44] <Bytram> Ad then I warned him that there was something very important that I now needed to tell him...
[20:08:16] <Bytram> When you have finished watching a DVD, make sure that you rewind it.
[20:09:27] <Bytram> He looked at me earnestly, trying to remember everything I had told him up to that point, and finally realized I was pulling his leg.
[20:10:05] <Bytram> After some of the stunts he had played on me when I was growing up... =)
[20:11:16] <Bytram> cmn32480: thanks a bunch for the peanut gallery commentary, and the useful information, too. I very *much* appreciate it!!!
[20:12:08] <Bytram> time for a break to step back and let all this merge together into one piece.
[20:12:36] <cmn32480> np
[20:12:40] <cmn32480> glad to assist and mock
[20:35:26] -!- Bytram_Dewey_PaleMoo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[20:35:26] -!- Bytram_dewey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[21:20:53] <Bytram> #weather cape canaveral
[21:20:54] <MrPlow> Cape Canaveral, Pier Rd, Cape Canaveral, FL 32920, USA - Today: "Clear throughout the day." 60/50F, Humidity: 57%, Precip: 29%, Wind ~13mph. Fri: "Clear throughout the day." 61/51F, Humidity: 51%, Precip: 3%, Wind ~13mph. Sat: "Clear throughout the day." 63/54F, Humidity: 53%, Precip: 4%, Wind ~16mph.
[21:37:42] * Bytram is sorely tempted to come down and see a couple SpaceX launches. "CRS 20" 2020-03-07 04:50:00 UTC (2020-03-06 23:50:00 EST) and "Starlink 5" 2020-03-11 14:40:00 UTC (?? just recently rescheduled)
[21:38:16] <Bytram> https://spaceflightnow.com
[21:38:17] <systemd> ^ 03Launch Schedule – Spaceflight Now
[21:38:35] <Bytram> https://www.rocketlaunch.live
[21:38:36] <systemd> ^ 03Launch Schedule - RocketLaunch.Live