#qa | Logs for 2015-06-02

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[02:38:31] -!- juggs [juggs!~juggs@Soylent/Staff/IRC/juggs] has joined #qa
[02:38:31] -!- mode/#qa [+o juggs] by wheatley
[02:38:50] * Bytram waves a friendly greeting to juggs
[02:39:02] -!- cmn32480 [cmn32480!~cmn32480@Soylent/Staff/Editor/cmn32480] has joined #qa
[02:39:13] <Bytram> It's been awfully quiet lately, welcome aboard!
[02:39:14] <cmn32480> you guys are nuts
[02:39:26] <cmn32480> NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[02:39:48] <cmn32480> why do I feel like I jsut got screwed in a very uncomfortable place
[02:40:04] <cmn32480> anyway
[02:40:08] <cmn32480> how you wnat this file?
[02:40:26] <Bytram> unless you know exactly what part of the page is acting up, I'd say post the whole web page... but start with the URL that it is taken from.
[02:40:27] <cmn32480> pasting it here might be a gigantic mess
[02:40:38] <juggs> http://www.pastebin.ca
[02:41:07] <juggs> Then post the resultant pastebin link here
[02:41:16] <cmn32480> bless you my son
[02:41:46] <juggs> It's publically accessible html, so no worries
[02:42:06] <cmn32480> http://pastebin.ca
[02:42:06] <Bytram> sounds better, but I'd still wish we had oour OWN pastebin
[02:42:10] * juggs waves back to Bytram... yeh been a while since I was in here
[02:43:22] * Bytram somehow hit a magic key and his 1920x1200 screen shrunk to 1280x768
[02:43:23] <juggs> Bytram, our own kerberosised pastebin served over https would be great.
[02:43:49] * Bytram now has to resizee and relocate all hist windows
[02:44:45] <juggs> 1st world problems... so bothersome!
[02:45:39] <cmn32480> juggs has second world problems... crappy internet!
[02:46:03] * Bytram has those, too. :/
[02:46:09] <cmn32480> original URL: http://soylentnews.org
[02:47:08] <juggs> My internet connection is indeed crappy. But it is a 1st world problem. An ADSL2+ connection capable of ~12Mbps clamped down to ~1Mbps thanks to REIN that it is apparently too hard to pinpoint.
[02:47:45] <Bytram> juggs: umm, what is 'REIN'
[02:47:47] <Bytram> ?
[02:50:22] <juggs> Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise - interference in the same frequencies used by ADSL, it absolutely decimates (literally in my case) the connection. Basically the ADSL signal on the copper pair from exchange to premise gets annihilated by ~something~ emitting white noise in the the same frequency range. Mine gets hit between ~9am and ~6pm so likely a retail or industrial source.
[02:51:12] <juggs> Long winded to get it addressed to say the least.
[02:51:14] <Bytram> cmn32480: ugh, I *just* saw you pastebin URL
[02:51:37] <juggs> Bytram, I think you too need sleep :)
[02:51:40] <cmn32480> sorry... should ahve pinged you with it
[02:51:53] <cmn32480> get some rest man. we are no good exhausted
[02:52:03] <cmn32480> the page source will keep.
[02:54:02] <Bytram> cmn32480: okay, so which link went to blank-page-land?
[02:54:34] <cmn32480> links in the comment moderation message bytram
[02:55:23] <cmn32480> start at line 394
[02:55:30] <cmn32480> bytram^
[02:55:35] <Bytram> okay, just to confirm... links to replies to your comments are okay, but links to messages showing you the details of moderations performed to a comment are going blank?
[02:55:53] <cmn32480> correct
[02:55:59] <cmn32480> one thing of note:
[02:56:13] <cmn32480> the moderation was post upgrade, the replies pre-upgrade
[02:56:32] <cmn32480> not sure if that is significant, or a red herring
[02:56:42] <Bytram> could be problem communicating over 'the great divide' -- I could understand that.
[02:56:55] <Bytram> I think I deleted all my messages before the cutover
[02:57:31] <Bytram> yesp, I have no messages (new or old) waiting for me.
[02:58:17] <cmn32480> somebody other than me has to have messages
[02:59:06] <juggs> I have 5 Old - think they all predate the cutover
[02:59:45] <Bytram> so I'm looking at the source and trying to figure out which link took you to nowhere... I'm guessing it was this one:
[02:59:46] <Bytram> ><a href="//soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=7719&cid=190524"
[02:59:47] <Bytram> >Re:wtf is rehash</a>
[03:00:31] <cmn32480> dated before MAy 31 @ 10pm juggs?
[03:01:01] <Bytram> that's just a normal link to another comment; I see nothing from this side of the fence to suggest a problem...
[03:01:10] <Bytram> doh! Let *me* try that link!
[03:01:24] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[03:01:25] <cmn32480> correct. link on line 404 <giggle> and 406
[03:02:18] <juggs> I have Mon 01 Jun 04:37AM and Mon 01 Jun 12:06AM - but my display time is set to UTC. I'm too fuzzy to do the time offset right now.
[03:02:24] <cmn32480> takes me to a blank page for the line 404 and a "nothign to see here" from 406
[03:02:48] <cmn32480> the 12:06 shoudl work juggs
[03:03:25] <cmn32480> it was about 0100 when the darkness started
[03:03:35] <juggs> I also have Fri 29 May 02:07PM, Tue 26 May 04:31PM, Fri 22 May 08:07PM
[03:03:48] <cmn32480> those DEFINETLY ought to work
[03:04:06] <Bytram> aannnnnd, when I go there, I see a page with Navigation slashbox, Sections slashbox, and SoylentNews slashbox all stacked on the left-hand side; on the top are 5 topics icons, below which is the 'nagger' about stories in the queue. And that is *all* that I see.
[03:04:09] <cmn32480> if you click the links in those, do they take you to the comments in question?
[03:04:32] <juggs> The older ones?
[03:04:43] <cmn32480> yes, sir, juggs. the old ones
[03:05:50] <Bytram> AHA!?!?
[03:05:53] <juggs> One Journal link works fine on the oldest, link to a comment on the next shows the story but no comment. Link is https://soylentnews.org
[03:06:17] <Bytram> Look closely, this:https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=7719&cid=190524
[03:06:31] <cmn32480> &amp
[03:06:33] <Bytram> Look closely, this:
[03:06:35] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[03:06:37] <Bytram> should be:
[03:06:45] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[03:06:57] * juggs views page source
[03:07:34] <Bytram> IIRC, that sounds like an artifact we've hit before!
[03:07:41] <cmn32480> maybe I'm clicking wrong, but I get the blank page for both
[03:07:52] <Bytram> maybe(?????) in data.pm ??
[03:08:27] <Bytram> huh. Well I'll be...
[03:08:30] <Bytram> pondering
[03:08:57] <juggs> wtf - now the same link in the same message works
[03:09:22] * juggs moves up to the next message
[03:10:31] <juggs> OK https://soylentnews.org shows no comment on the first attempt.
[03:10:54] <juggs> 2nd attempt it works
[03:10:58] <cmn32480> I click and get the comment
[03:12:08] <juggs> Page Source shows: <b><a href="//soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=7680&cid=189493">Re:Egads!</a></b>, attached to
[03:12:32] <juggs> comment failed to display on 1st attempt, but worked the 2nd time
[03:12:36] <juggs> chaching issue?
[03:12:43] <juggs> caching even
[03:12:50] <Bytram> juggs: it sure *sounds* like it is!
[03:13:23] <cmn32480> and after you clicked it the second time, it works fine fr the rest of us?
[03:13:24] <juggs> Bytram, I got that result twice, fail on 1st attempt, success on 2nd attempt
[03:13:37] * Bytram wonders why we must provide an sid when looking up a comment!!?! comment ids should be unique, period, end of story!
[03:14:18] <juggs> OK - I think I have one more pre-cutover message left, let me step though this.
[03:14:27] <Bytram> juggs: I'm glad it's reproducible!
[03:14:30] <Bytram> juggs: hold on!
[03:14:37] * juggs holds
[03:14:49] <Bytram> can you clear *your* cache and retry those first two again?
[03:14:59] <Bytram> see if it may be something local to YOUR system?
[03:15:20] <Bytram> if your theory is correct (and I suspect it is),
[03:15:35] <juggs> sure, let me blow away cache n cookies
[03:15:45] <Bytram> then you should be able to clear your cache, load one of those two pages, and see it load on the FIRST try.
[03:15:53] <Bytram> \nopt cookeis!
[03:15:57] <Bytram> NOT cookies!
[03:16:12] <Bytram> hmm , well, I guess that won't hurt.
[03:16:13] <juggs> ok - just cache
[03:16:29] <Bytram> just trying to keep the changed variables to a minumum
[03:16:42] <juggs> fuck me what did firefox do to their preferences page??? it looks like chrome
[03:17:42] <juggs> cache cleared
[03:17:56] <juggs> https://soylentnews.org refreshed
[03:19:11] <juggs> Revisited previous links, display OK as expected. Still have one pre-cutover message to play with
[03:19:45] <Bytram> so, that would tend to confirm a cache issue on a SoylentNews server.
[03:19:56] <juggs> Want me test out my last bullet?
[03:20:12] <Bytram> I have no doubt that it would work/fail.
[03:20:21] <juggs> Let's see
[03:20:28] <Bytram> keep it 'virgin' atm and let NC and/or PJ know about it.
[03:20:51] <juggs> Not clicky?
[03:20:52] <Bytram> that way they have access to data that they know *will* reproduce it.
[03:20:57] <Bytram> NO click, please
[03:21:01] <juggs> OK
[03:21:13] <Bytram> but DO leave the msgs in your message area
[03:21:54] <Bytram> that lets them have some things they know should be in the cache and others that they know should not, generally, be in the cache
[03:21:55] <juggs> It is the 2nd link in the Reply to "X" by Name that exhibits the behaviour.
[03:22:34] <Bytram> this sounds so terribly familiar!
[03:22:59] <Bytram> yes, I'm now SURE I've run into this before
[03:23:22] <juggs> OK, let me try to explain this in a way that makes sense for pj and NC to get to grips with. Best to drop it in #chill or #dev?
[03:23:34] <juggs> or Bug Report it?
[03:23:37] <Bytram> bug report it
[03:23:41] <juggs> k
[03:23:51] <Bytram> my best guess atm is that varnish needs a kick
[03:25:08] * Bytram remembers trying to find a link to an 'unloaded' comment on the site -- i.e. before someone *else* clicked on it -- so that I could reproduce a problem.
[03:25:58] <Bytram> OTOH I might be conflating that problem with another one.
[03:26:04] <juggs> Wow this is hard to elucidate succinctly
[03:26:09] <Bytram> quick break back in a few minutes
[03:26:13] <Bytram> juggs++
[03:26:26] * juggs breaks for nicotine
[03:26:43] * cmn32480 continues workign on his expenses that are overdue
[03:30:46] * juggs is back
[03:31:17] <juggs> cmn32480, good luck with discussion with mrcoobp :)
[03:31:32] <cmn32480> what'd I do now?
[03:31:48] <Bytram> back
[03:31:54] <juggs> Thought you meant expenses related to SN :D
[03:31:59] <Bytram> juggs: I'm remembering a bit more.
[03:32:06] <cmn32480> no... this is for my actual job
[03:32:20] <Bytram> I do NOT remember it manifesting as a 'blank' page like we are seeing now.
[03:32:52] <cmn32480> and my boss was not pleased when I told him that I hadn't submitted expenses (or invoiced) all month
[03:33:15] <juggs> Bytram let me file the BR then you can add commentary? I'm not getting a blank page, I get the story text and the frills around the edges, just the linked comment is not displayed on 1st attempt.
[03:34:01] <Bytram> maybe pastebin a screen cap of what you are seeing?
[03:34:43] <juggs> Bytram, cannot do that without sacrificing my one remaining pre-cutover message.
[03:35:08] <Bytram> juggs: also, beware of pasting a link into a channel which has a bot that autoretrives a link to show the story title
[03:35:22] <Bytram> that would cause it to be loaded into the cache
[03:35:26] <Bytram> nod nod
[03:35:29] <juggs> Does this issue persist on messages received post-cutover?
[03:35:49] <Bytram> I can make one for you =)
[03:36:33] <juggs> Do it. No point BR'ing something that will work it's way out... call it teething pain. Go reply to one of my stupid comments.
[03:36:54] * Bytram was going to moderate one of your 'stupid comments'
[03:38:35] <juggs> I only saw the problem on "reply to" not Mod messages. I have not tested Mod messages.
[03:38:43] * Bytram is going to mod 'http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=7715&cid=190973' titled 'Re:Taking my sweet time' as +1 Interesting
[03:38:56] <juggs> Valid test
[03:39:21] <Bytram> done. got a page containging:
[03:39:22] <Bytram> +1 (Interesting) Re:Taking my sweet time (7715-190973, 4 points left)
[03:39:22] <Bytram> Return to the set of comments you wer
[03:39:47] * juggs clears cache and refreshes Inbox
[03:39:55] * Bytram assumes that is sid=7715 and cid=190973
[03:39:58] <Bytram> s/assumes/guesses/
[03:40:39] <Bytram> interesting! clicked on 'comments' link in second line and was brought to... the main page!
[03:41:20] <Bytram> here is the full text of that page (I accidentally chopped part of it off):
[03:41:21] <Bytram> +1 (Interesting) Re:Taking my sweet time (7715-190973, 4 points left)
[03:41:21] <Bytram> Return to the set of comments you were just moderating.
[03:41:32] <Bytram> it contains:
[03:41:57] <cmn32480> gents.. I hate to break up the party, but I've got a class to teach in the morning for a customer.
[03:42:02] <Bytram> try again, view source of that selection contains:
[03:42:03] <Bytram> 
[03:42:03] <Bytram> <li>+1 (Interesting) Re:Taking my sweet time (7715-190973,
[03:42:03] <Bytram> <b>4</b> points left)
[03:42:03] <Bytram> </li>
[03:42:04] <Bytram> 
[03:42:06] <Bytram> <div class="message">Return to the set of <a href="//soylentnews.org">comments</a> you were just moderating.</div>
[03:42:09] <Bytram> 
[03:42:18] <Bytram> cmn32480: no problem -- thanks SO MUCH for your help!
[03:42:35] * Bytram needs to be at work in about 10 hours; won't last much longer myself
[03:42:38] <cmn32480> i wish I could have been more help in solving it. nto just finding it
[03:42:52] <cmn32480> 10 hours? you luck y dog
[03:43:11] <cmn32480> I ahve to be on the road in 7 to make it to the site.
[03:43:22] <Bytram> 'Strive to understand your problem, don't try to solve it. A fully stated problem embodies its solution.'
[03:43:23] <cmn32480> good night gentlemen. A pleaseure as always
[03:43:35] <Bytram> and a GREAT night to you!
[03:44:29] -!- cmn32480 has quit [Quit: See You Later]
[03:45:07] <juggs> OK.. I now have 6 Old Messages rather than 5. that was mrcoolbp replying to one of my comments, must have missed that during my refresh frenzy. I seemingly didn't get a Message as a result of your moderation Bytram.
[03:45:51] <Bytram> ISTR that the system takes its sweet old time deciding when it wants to let me know about moderation... then I'll see a bunch all at once.
[03:46:52] * Bytram loads an old Juggs comment: 'Bluecoat' at: http://soylentnews.org
[03:47:03] <juggs> This wy I do not do QA, my patience threshold is low :D
[03:48:33] * juggs does nothing
[03:49:12] * Bytram clicks submit on his comment
[03:49:36] <Bytram> comment: http://soylentnews.org
[03:50:24] <juggs> Your choice of the Bluecoat subject was apt, grrrrrr, for reasons I care not to comment at length on.
[03:50:33] <Bytram> now, seeing as it reloads the page and shows me the contents of the comment when I clicked submit, I suspect you will NOT see this manigest as the others did.
[03:50:54] * Bytram will take your word for it. =)
[03:51:05] * juggs refreshes SN homepage
[03:51:21] <juggs> I just don't like ghosts in the machine so to speek
[03:51:32] <juggs> speak
[03:51:36] <Bytram> maybe, a bluecoat is actually a redcoat that voted democrat?
[03:51:46] <Bytram> :/
[03:52:14] <juggs> Would that not be a turncoat?
[03:52:22] <juggs> OK - I have 1 new message
[03:52:26] * Bytram loads http://soylentnews.org
[03:52:52] <Bytram> and scrolls down past a couple pages of his earlier comments to find one that is old and likely not read since the cutover
[03:53:08] <juggs> 1st link in message works OK
[03:53:10] <Bytram> http://soylentnews.org
[03:53:34] <juggs> 2nd link in Message works OK
[03:54:01] * Bytram tries to load 'Re:any takers so far?' at: http://soylentnews.org
[03:54:14] <juggs> 3rd link in message works OK
[03:54:20] <Bytram> laoded fine for me.
[03:54:42] <juggs> But that was a Journal comment not a story comment.
[03:54:54] <Bytram> the one I replied to?
[03:55:33] <Bytram> ugh, that story was archived and no further comments can be made
[03:55:56] <juggs> The Bluecoat comment was on a Journal of Alfred (1006)
[03:56:16] <Bytram> ok
[03:57:21] * Bytram tries a newer comment: http://soylentnews.org
[03:57:24] <juggs> I don't comment much :) I have two ears, two eyes, one mouth with two feet to stick in it, I prefer to observe than chatter.
[04:00:32] <Bytram> comment submitted: http://soylentnews.org
[04:01:46] * juggs refreshes homepage, 0 new messages. / pauses 1 minute
[04:02:19] <Bytram> I estimate that if we continue on an average pace since the site started, we'll reach our 200,000th comment before the end of the month!
[04:02:57] * Bytram thinks it would be really amazing if it happened on july 4; the date we were incorporated!
[04:04:25] <Bytram> afk brb
[04:04:53] <juggs> ha! That would be good. Can we release 200K white doves from time square as a statement on liberty and a publicity stunt at the same time? I'm not sure our budget stretches to that.
[04:05:29] * Bytram suggests that might lead to a bit of a shit storm -- don't look up!
[04:05:44] * juggs has 1 New Message
[04:05:48] <Bytram> =)
[04:06:13] <juggs> Reply to "Re:Egads!" by martyb *
[04:06:29] <Bytram> now who could THAT be?
[04:06:31] <juggs> 1st link works as expected.
[04:06:49] <juggs> 2nd link works as expected
[04:07:25] <juggs> 3rd link is slow as all hell, works as expected after delay
[04:08:29] <Bytram> okay, it seems to suggest (equivocation++) that this manifests when a pre-rollover message it read post-rollover?
[04:08:32] <juggs> So it seems there is something odd going on with messages received before cutover and clicked on after cutover. I'm not sure a BR is going to be helpful if this is going to work itself out.
[04:08:48] <Bytram> ummm, what is a 'BR'
[04:08:58] <juggs> Bug Report
[04:09:10] <juggs> Sorry, I'm getting tired
[04:09:16] <Bytram> yeah, but what about the NEXT upgrade?
[04:09:36] <Bytram> don't have to submit the bug report *right* *now*, yanno!
[04:09:50] * Bytram is tired, too, and is going to call it a night
[04:10:09] <Bytram> I *really* appreciate your willingness to try out some things and help narrow things down
[04:10:28] <juggs> The "NEXT" upgrade will not be the leap we took this time with the move to rehash.
[04:12:07] <juggs> Bytram, I don't really do anything useful around here, I'm happy to help out where I can :)
[04:12:15] <Bytram> but having a completely cleared cache on a rollout, or under some other situation.
[04:12:44] <Bytram> nice to have *somthing* documented, like I failed to do about the one I remembered some, but not enough of!
[04:13:29] <Bytram> juggs: okay, get thee to bed and some rest!
[04:13:45] <Bytram> and 'tis good for the goose, as well.
[04:13:50] <Bytram> ta ta for now!
[04:13:55] <juggs> I'll bug report it so it is documented. You make a good point, it may not be useful today but it may be relevant for the future.
[04:13:57] <Bytram> afk| bed
[04:14:05] <juggs> night Bytram, sleep well
[04:14:10] <Bytram> and you also!
[04:32:34] <juggs> Bytram, https://github.com