#meeting-discuss | Logs for 2023-08-25
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[19:51:24] * janrinok checking in
[20:26:04] * Deucalion eerily shimmers into existence
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[20:32:48] <progo> where is the meeting? I tried to join #meeting as an observer and chanserv kicks me
[20:32:56] <notkolie> #governance
[20:33:00] <progo> ah
[20:33:51] <notkolie> So if the goal is to just rail road bylaws to satisfy the "board" we might be able to negotiate that better than we are doing now.
[20:34:01] <notkolie> Unless we are making actual bylaws we want and will run by.
[20:35:01] <notkolie> It'd be nice to codify and get everything we want down.
[20:37:24] <requerdanos> I suppose we could theoretically use last week's agenda and modify it slightly for this week's business
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[20:57:29] <aristarchus> No agenda item 4, and 3 is an empty container?
[20:57:43] <notkolie> There is no 4.
[20:57:44] <soylentil19> only 25 minutes into the meeting to approve the agenda for the meeting. This is going great ;-)
[20:57:56] <notkolie> Chair cancelled.
[20:58:01] <notkolie> Mecha had to get involved.
[21:00:07] <aristarchus> The use of Mecha's gives unfair advantage to certain factions.
[21:04:41] <Deucalion> Other factions have sorcery or advance psyops.....
[21:06:01] <notkolie> Si
[21:06:05] <notkolie> 501c3 is applicable.
[21:06:09] <notkolie> A lot of news organizations use it.
[21:06:09] <notkolie> https://transition.fcc.gov
[21:06:16] <notkolie> AP does.
[21:06:18] <notkolie> Mother jones.
[21:06:25] <notkolie> wikipedia, washington monthly, npr.
[21:06:40] <notkolie> There MAY be other listings but I know that 501c3 could be used.
[21:08:17] <separatrix> jay: SN is educational for the purposes of 501c3. It’s in no way disingenuous.
[21:09:16] <separatrix> As I thought, a PBC was inappropriate for SN’s goals
[21:09:39] <aristarchus> In theory SN is educational; in practice, not so much.
[21:09:54] <separatrix> Doesn’t matter. As long as SN does what it does, it qualifies as educational
[21:10:16] <separatrix> There’s a good piece from the IRS about this
[21:10:28] <mechanicjay> separatrix: do you have a link for me?
[21:10:54] <Fnord666> separatrix: If the founders wanted to remain a shareholder held corporation then a PBC provides just enough of a veneer of community participation to get by.
[21:11:27] <Deucalion> A website featuring nothing but different ways to peel vegetables could be classified as "educational" if the visitor only knew of one way before visiting :D
[21:12:03] <separatrix> That’s the point, though. The IRS doesn’t care quite that much, as long as you’re endeavoring to be non-commercial in that basic way
[21:12:20] <Deucalion> I don't see how SN is educational at all
[21:13:48] <soylentil19> While it seems small, there are tax advantages for those donating to the site if tax-exempt. I wouldn't discount this to entice more dollars coming in to keep the lights on.
[21:17:01] <separatrix> It doesn’t have to seem educational to *us*. It has to seem educational to the IRS. And they’ve said this is okay.
[21:17:14] <soylentil19> Presenting collated news is only a part of the site. Discussion that follows is where the education lies. I've learned significantly from others knowledge based off of their comments. Mech is missing the biggest reason for the site to exist.
[21:17:35] <notkolie> The discussion is educational too yes.
[21:18:10] <soylentil19> I'd say the discussion is usually *far* more educational than the original news sources.
[21:18:16] <notkolie> But the collaiton of news alone is enough.
[21:18:18] <soylentil19> Either way, box checked!
[21:19:42] <aristarchus> Point of order! Jan, do your duty.
[21:20:40] <soylentil19> hear! hear!
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[21:23:08] <soylentil19> WTF jan
[21:23:33] <aristarchus> Looks like he just wants to fight, and not give an initial position.
[21:28:06] <soylentil19> I think open discussions are good. But may have been better/easier to have an outline of structure first to get community feel. Really difficult to read through those by-laws and comment on major structure items.
[21:28:20] <notkolie> Which is why they were in journals inbetween.
[21:28:49] <notkolie> they were discussed at length in the comments by people participating.
[21:28:54] <aristarchus> Bad idea to have "active staff" defined, and "civil affairs"?? Military organization principles?
[21:28:59] <separatrix> I have a feeling jan is going to say things now that I will object to, and I barely have bandwidth to stay on because I have a meeting.
[21:33:15] <aristarchus> And just to note, the bylaws were NOT discussed in janrinok's journal, because he closed it to comments (from ACs).
[21:33:30] <notkolie> You have accounts you can use.
[21:33:37] <notkolie> You can also do things to pass the not ari test.
[21:34:55] <aristarchus> He's gone ALL CAPS!
[21:36:21] <soylentil19> didn't see a ? anywhere in those... statements.
[21:36:27] <notkolie> ^^
[21:38:05] <janrinok> lots of other things that have been questioned
[21:38:22] <janrinok> they were questioned in the comments in the journals.
[21:40:49] <mechanicjay> FWIW, to those worried that my being chair gives a boost -- I take impartiality of the chair position very seriously.
[21:41:53] <aristarchus> No problem. Mechanics work on Mechas, they are not themselves amplified human directed implements of destruction.
[21:55:47] <aristarchus> Please, "coops" are for chickens, "co-ops" are cooperative organizations.
[21:56:20] <Deucalion> and nits are for picking :)
[21:57:47] <soylentil19> A true community site would be more like a co-op. The staff implementing the will of *the people*, not making decisions (as the current by-laws draft indicates)).
[21:58:03] <janrinok> we do that all the time
[21:58:09] <soylentil19> ha!
[22:00:17] <soylentil19> <chants> co-op! co-op! co-op!
[22:00:33] <Fnord666> Co-ops still have to remain within certain bounds, regardless of the will have the people. An electrical co-op can't just decide that everyone gets free electricity just because the community thinks that's a fine idea.
[22:01:43] <Fnord666> I mean it could, but it wouldn't exist for very long after that.
[22:01:57] <soylentil19> of course, my co-op elects a representative for my area that I vote on. They then serve on the board making decisions.
[22:03:56] <Fnord666> Which makes sense if it doesn't allow full participation from everyone in the co-op.
[22:05:58] <requerdanos> so you're saying there's a chance for free electric current?
[22:06:18] <janrinok> no they 'charge' you
[22:06:49] <notkolie> We echo some of the co-op ideas in giving the share holding / voting to the community.
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[22:15:07] <janrinok> OK, no questions. Goodnight all!
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[22:21:48] <chromas> When I need a charge I just go plug into a currant bush