#editorial | Logs for 2020-10-17
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[04:08:05] <Bytram_dewey> https://chromas.0x.no
[04:08:06] <systemd> ^ 03Soysub ( https://zeroindex.org )
[04:13:14] <Bytram_dewey> whereto? https://urldefense.proofpoint.com
[04:13:17] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[04:23:48] <Bytram_dewey> that's going to have to do it for this day...
[04:24:01] <Bytram_dewey> have a great night everybody!
[04:25:04] <Fnord666> Good night Bytram
[04:25:39] <Fnord666> Pleasant dreams
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[06:53:08] <janrinok> Bytram, you are still using MATE. Did you select the ubuntu-desktop when you were presented with the login page? There is an icon (on 20.04 it is next to the username before you type your password. Click it and it will display a list of installed desktops. If you have sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop the "Ubuntu" will be in that list. You can install numerous desktops but you have to tell it which one you want to use.
[06:53:38] <janrinok> The desktop you select will become the default for you until you change it again.
[06:57:30] <janrinok> You cannot change desktops if you are booting from a thumbdrive or CD - they already contain a preset desktop and there is no logout. You need to be booting from a SSD - which I asked about before. If you want to install from a thumbdrive then you will have to have an ISO for plain vanilla Ubuntu on that thumbdrive.
[06:59:06] <janrinok> My suggestion - because I for one am getting confused as to what you are now trying to achieve is set up a stand-alone lappy - NOT YOUR WINDOWS ONE - with a desktop that you like. Once you have that working that problem is gone.
[07:00:39] <janrinok> Then connect the faulty Windows SSD as an EXTERNAL drive and use the ubuntu lappy to access the files on the Windows SSD. Copy the config files or whatever you want to ubuntu lappy into their own directory. That problem is gone.
[07:01:20] <janrinok> Decide how you want to fix you Windows SSD using the files that you have copied onto the ubuntu lappy.
[07:02:45] <janrinok> FIX ONE PROBLEM AT A TIME. You are certainly confusing me and you might be confusing yourself by changing tack part way through.
[07:13:16] <janrinok> You would also be well advised to copy all of your personal scripts, mini-programs and whatever else you value on that drive onto your lappy so that you can start looking at converting them - if required - to linux.
[07:16:06] <janrinok> The benefits of this approach are that you can use linux, a browser and the SN interface to support the site from the moment you install linux on the lappy. You will have the scripts available if you decide that the minimum SN interface is not enough. You will also have access to IRC, and the servers etc via the linux lappy. You can the begin to fix the Windows computer from the data you have stored on the lappy, while still being
[07:16:06] <janrinok> able to support the site without having to use a smartphone!
[07:57:29] <janrinok> To logout of the system - not to switch off or reboot - use the menu at the top of the screen (usually!) and Select System - Log Out [$Username]. I say 'usually' because you can move that menu anywhere you want, and people often do. If you have moved yours it will probably be where you left it ;)
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[09:24:03] <aristarchus> =submit https://www.theverge.com
[09:24:05] <systemd> aristarchus, 04submit failed: SSL peer certificate or SSH remote key was not OK on handle 7F256C0EF2B0
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[10:45:02] <Bytram_dewey> chromas: Yes, a boot USB stick for Mate would also work, but that *green* is so bright!
[10:45:48] <chromas> I still think your Windows installation is fine
[10:46:16] * chromas blames the exired certs
[10:46:47] <Bytram_dewey> you mean... we ran out of breath mints?
[10:47:42] <chromas> tic tac, bric-a-brac, give a dog your bone
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[11:43:54] <janrinok> Bytram, you around?
[11:45:32] <janrinok> ping Bytram
[11:45:40] <janrinok> Bytram, ping
[13:02:43] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: Hi!
[13:03:21] <Bytram_dewey> Bytram_dewey: testing to see if I get a notification when my nick is used
[13:03:34] <Bytram_dewey> that would be a big "No".
[13:23:07] <janrinok> lol
[13:23:43] <janrinok> what are you trying to do today?
[13:24:44] <janrinok> ... and let me know if I can help in any way
[13:29:29] <Bytram_dewey> oh hi!
[13:29:57] <Bytram_dewey> thinking I need to get down to basics and clone the old windows SSD
[13:30:15] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: am looking at options to dd
[13:30:42] <Bytram_dewey> see things like: conv and sync and a bunch of other stuff
[13:32:24] <Bytram_dewey> granted, I may be only using ~60% of the drive, but right now I would prefer to not take *any* chances... copy *everything*, *as-is* from /dev/sdb to /dev/sdc
[13:35:00] <Bytram_dewey> IIUC, referring to /dev/sdb includes everything on the drive and "ignores" partitions... if /dev/sdb has just 1 partition or has 5 partitions, it does not matter, when I get done, /dev/sdc will get *everything*, including partition tables, that was on /dev/sdb/
[13:35:27] * Bytram_dewey is looking at something that will prolly take hours
[13:35:54] <Bytram_dewey> so, just to confirm, I plan to issue:
[13:37:09] <Bytram_dewey> dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc status=progress bs=1G
[13:37:18] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: ^^^
[13:37:30] <janrinok> looks good
[13:37:48] <Bytram_dewey> rly? neat!
[13:38:00] <janrinok> but it will take a while to do. Did you manage to get the other desktop started?
[13:39:32] <Bytram_dewey> give me a minute to type that command into the other PC; btw I had had firefox running, (and maybe some other stuff) but closed all of those and are down to just one terminal window -- just to ensure there is no data "in flight"
[13:39:44] <janrinok> good idea
[13:41:47] <Bytram_dewey> correction:
[13:42:07] <Bytram_dewey> dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdc status=progress bs=1G
[13:42:18] <janrinok> you might need sudo
[13:43:00] <Bytram_dewey> *now* he tells me! ;)
[13:43:23] <Bytram_dewey> sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdc status=progress bs=1G
[13:43:34] * Bytram_dewey waits...
[13:43:34] <janrinok> well, I don't know who you are logged on as do I? If you are logged on as root you do not need sudo....
[13:43:53] <Bytram_dewey> good point. not as root
[13:44:30] <Bytram_dewey> am getting status message
[13:45:04] <janrinok> if you are doing a lot of maintenance it is often easier to 'sudo su' which will change you to root for a period of time, but will automatically revert to your normal user if you do not type any commands in for a certain period of time
[13:45:37] <Bytram_dewey> (lotsa digits) (3.2 GB, 3.0 GiB) copies, 130 s, 32.9 MB/s
[13:46:01] <Bytram_dewey> good to know, tx!
[13:46:51] <Bytram_dewey> 6.0 GuB ... 31.8 MB/s
[13:47:00] <Bytram_dewey> s/u/i/
[13:47:00] <SedBot> <Bytram_dewey> 6.0 GiB ... 31.8 MB/s
[13:48:01] <Bytram_dewey> 8.0 GiB 31.3 MB/s
[13:48:29] <Bytram_dewey> looks like it will level out at ~30 GB/s
[13:49:54] <Bytram_dewey> according to lsblk, /mnt/sda is: 931.5G
[13:53:05] <Bytram_dewey> looks like it will take on the order of.. 8.8 hours
[13:53:25] <janrinok> sounds good - now which drive are you copying?
[13:53:56] <Bytram_dewey> Windows SSD on my main system (theone that BSODs)
[13:54:24] <janrinok> haven't you already got a bit-copy backup of that drive from several months ago?
[13:54:26] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #editorial
[13:54:34] <janrinok> Hi Az
[13:54:51] <Bytram_dewey> yes, but I've done stuff since then that I want to preserve
[13:55:27] <Bytram_dewey> s/preserve/bring over to Dewey from Huey/
[13:55:27] <SedBot> <Bytram_dewey> yes, but I've done stuff since then that I want to bring over to Dewey from Huey
[13:55:33] <janrinok> understood, but are you copying the drive that you know BSODs over the old bit-copy?
[13:56:34] <Bytram_dewey> oh, nope. Purchased another Samsung EVO 860 1 TB drive -- this destination drive is brand new
[13:57:03] <janrinok> so why are you copying the BSOD drive?
[13:57:14] <Bytram_dewey> to get files from it
[13:57:26] * janrinok is assuming that you want a copy to work on...?
[13:58:11] <janrinok> 2nd question, are all of your lappies the exact same spec?
[13:58:58] <Bytram_dewey> I *could* just pull the SSD from Huey, mount in an external USB enclosure and work from that... but first rule of thumb is to work from *backups* -- keep the original unchanged
[14:00:09] <janrinok> understood. But if you have a copy of the original Win installation couldn't you just put that inside another lappy to see if it still works. You might be able to recover the Product Code from that
[14:00:39] <Bytram_dewey> so, I am making a *copy* that I will then bring from Huey to Dewey (again as an Externally-mounted SSD). Then I can copy files from the External SSD to Dewey's native/local SSD
[14:00:54] <janrinok> you would have to install it as it wouldn't be drive C if you mount it externally, would it?
[14:02:05] <janrinok> I tend to agree with something that chromas said earlier/or even yesterday - we are not convinced that we have tried all the easy options to check the Windows installation yet
[14:02:49] <janrinok> that's why you have a bit-copy - you just replace the 'faulty' drive and check it is not a hardware problem.
[14:03:27] <janrinok> as you know I'm not knowledgeable on Windows after Win2000!
[14:08:12] <Bytram_dewey> Huey (Dell Latitude E6400 -- BIOS) with 6 GB RAM and a Core 2 Duo was a Win 7 Pro x64 (yes, that is past EoL) box, is now booted from USB stick into plain vanilla Ubuntu 18.04; Dewey (Dell Latitude E6410 -- UEFI) with 4 GB RAM with (I think) an i3 proc: 2 cores 4 threads. Louie is same hardware as as Dewey.
[14:09:16] <Bytram_dewey> As tempted as I am to resurrect Windows, I am trying to resist that temptation and trying to use this as an opportunity to dive into the deep end and move to Linux.
[14:10:16] <Bytram_dewey> So long as I cannot boot Huey, it makes it easier to resist that temptation.
[14:10:56] <Bytram_dewey> how can I tell what proc I have on Dewey?
[14:16:21] <AzumaHazuki> the new working one? pull open the System item in the Windows control panel
[14:16:25] <AzumaHazuki> or the task manager
[14:16:35] <Bytram_dewey> cat /proc/cpuinfo
[14:16:48] <Bytram_dewey> model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU M 540 @ 2.53GHz
[14:17:07] <AzumaHazuki> ah, didn't realize you had Linux on there. That is an Arrandale (Nehalem) Core i5, the first gen of the Core i* series
[14:17:16] <Bytram_dewey> that IS a step up from the Core 2 Duo I am coming from
[14:17:41] <janrinok> sry - nurse just visited but she has gone now.
[14:17:49] <Bytram_dewey> np
[14:19:02] <Bytram_dewey> so far, 60 GiB copies at 30.1 MB/s time: 2143s
[14:19:05] <janrinok> OK, I think that I understand better what you are trying to achieve. Not sure where copying the existing Win lappy to another bit-copy fits in that but it doesn't matter. Have you now got a working lappy with linux installed? I assume it is the one you are currently using for IRC...?
[14:19:28] <Bytram_dewey> :D
[14:20:28] <AzumaHazuki> you can actually migrate a Windows install to Virtualbox. I did a raw copy (dd) of someone's drive onto my external, had Virtualbox copy and convert it into its native format, and was able to use it as a VM
[14:20:31] <AzumaHazuki> i saved his business this way
[14:20:39] <Bytram_dewey> I hoped thatwould paint a clearer picture; Dewey is this machine w/ Linux MATE installed on the SSD and is what I am booted from
[14:21:05] <Bytram_dewey> (see my nick)
[14:21:25] <janrinok> Az that is what I think chromas recommended - well somebody recommended it - and it is a good idea.
[14:21:57] <janrinok> Bytram_dewey, did you sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop yesterday?
[14:22:36] <Bytram_dewey> AzumaHazuki: thanks for that, but I am in this position right now cause I get a BSOD on windows and I am trying to resist all temptations to get it running again. Using this as an opportunity to stop procrastinating moving to Linux
[14:22:49] <AzumaHazuki> understandable :)
[14:23:12] <AzumaHazuki> i should warn you, the "done for you" distros are not a wise idea in the long term. see if you can get a live Devuan (not debian) medium
[14:23:45] <AzumaHazuki> it's really not much harder than Ubuntu, much cleaner, and way less full of questionable decisions made for marketing fluff reasons. oh, and no systemd
[14:23:49] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: yes, and it looked the same after a reboot... there was some noise about picking something about something (desktop?) along the way.
[14:24:32] <janrinok> yes but you can only select the desktop BEFORE you log in, which implies that you have to log out and you will lose your IRC connection while we do it...
[14:25:13] <Bytram_dewey> I *love* the *idea*, but question its longetivity. how long can then run in parallel with systemd sticking its nose into more and more things?
[14:25:43] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: that was after powering off and on again. :/
[14:25:59] <Bytram_dewey> Saw no change at all.
[14:26:11] <janrinok> horses for courses - I have systemd and it causes me no problems whatsoever but I appreciate there is a lot of discontent with it
[14:26:28] <AzumaHazuki> surprisingly well actually, Bytram_dewey: and at worst there will ALWAYS be Gentoo
[14:26:30] <Bytram_dewey> Obviously there was something obvious that I missed
[14:26:45] <AzumaHazuki> and there's always *BSD
[14:27:01] <AzumaHazuki> if Gentoo ever loses openrc and can't sub in runit, i am going to move onto freebsd for good
[14:28:39] <janrinok> when you get to the log in screen AND BEFORE YOU LOG IN you will see a small icon near your user name (it moves depending on version) which shows in graphical terms which desktop you are currently using. If you click it (it will be a round MATE image) it will show a list of available desktops. Select the one you want and then input your password. It will take a second or two to setup your new desktop and will then open as expected
[14:28:51] <Bytram_dewey> seems to me that *BSD is a reasonable alternative (esp free BSD -- I love the principles behind it), but at this point I think I'm best served trying to stay with the mainstream, get up-to-speed on the basics, and only then venture forth into alternative distros
[14:30:04] <AzumaHazuki> Devuan is close enough. if you're already using the terminal in Ubuntu to install you're not the intended audience
[14:30:14] <AzumaHazuki> you'll find the GUI installed just as easy as Ubuntu's, just uglier
[14:30:50] <AzumaHazuki> ...now me, i tend to boot devuan media to a shell, manually partition/format/LUKS-encrypt the drive, mount stuff myself, and debootstrap directly into it =P
[14:30:55] <janrinok> Az - he ALREADY has ubuntu installed, he just wants to change the desktop
[14:31:17] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: Now that I have changed desktop color from garish green triangles to a low-brightness cyan, that helped a lot. Next up would be to make a bootable USB stick with Ubuntu MATE on it. *then* I could boot Hewey into MATE and have a consistent UI to deal with
[14:31:32] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, that's surprisingly tricky on *buntu >< try a search for ubuntu-desktop-* packages?
[14:31:39] <AzumaHazuki> and yeah Ubuntu Mate is likely the sanest of the lot
[14:32:03] <janrinok> we know that - but he cannot reboot without losing IRC can he? And we had to leave it at that point yesterday...
[14:32:48] <AzumaHazuki> hm...there's one way, to install tmux and connect to irssi in it then detach
[14:32:54] <AzumaHazuki> but tmux gives me headaches
[14:33:03] <janrinok> we have already installed the desktop he wants, but he did not understand how to select the new desktop before logging in.
[14:33:04] <AzumaHazuki> (and i assume you mean log off the session, not reboot)
[14:33:11] * Bytram_dewey is relatively flexible (at least at first) I started programming in 1972 and have used a few different platforms (hdw and sw) along the way -- evenwas involed with testing IBM's VM os back in the earlyu 80s
[14:34:59] <Bytram_dewey> IOW, Ubuntu MATE is growing on me -- more than good enough for now, I'm willing to make a new UDB stick to use to boot Huey from.
[14:36:09] <Bytram_dewey> just as long as I can tweak things -- somehow, in the long run -- then I'm good. Apple with their concept of one-way-to-do-things drives me nuts!
[14:36:20] <janrinok> np - your lead. What do you want to do next - I have 30 minutes or so before I have to start cooking 2 different meals ;)
[14:36:53] <janrinok> S sends you a big hug and kiss, by the way
[14:37:21] <Bytram_dewey> If I had another USB stick handy... how to make a bootable USB stick from this (Dewey -- Mate) laptop?
[14:37:59] <AzumaHazuki> dd if=/path/to/image of=/dev/sd[x] bs=8M conv=sync,noerror (where x is the letter of the USB drive) IIRC
[14:38:00] <janrinok> dd from your iso disk direct to the USB stick - done
[14:38:15] <janrinok> but there are plenty of other options too
[14:38:53] <Bytram_dewey> try again. Can i use my current mate install on Dewey as a source to create a bootable USB stick?
[14:39:26] <janrinok> probably but I've never wanted to do that, I'd have to go look it up
[14:39:34] <Bytram_dewey> np
[14:41:57] <Bytram_dewey> I get 15 GB (closed to 16 GB) tethered data each month ($10 for another 10 (15?) GB) and have used ~2.54 GB so far this month (Oct 4 - Nov 3, inclusive)
[14:44:30] <janrinok> apparently there is a program called remastersys that does exactly what you want. I've never used it but if I get time I will install it and see what it does
[14:46:12] <Bytram_dewey> might be best to keep it simple and just follow the tried-and-true path,, download an Live image of Mate
[14:46:24] <janrinok> BUT, you are currently using 17.04, and 20.04 is now the latest long-term supported version. I would download the latest ISO so that you don't have to upgrade everymachine that you plug your usb drive into. You can work with 20.04 for at least 5 years with full support
[14:46:59] <Bytram_dewey> ugh... mouse battery running low. -- okay -- brb
[14:50:56] <janrinok> The problem with long term use of a USB stick is that you cannot update it (unless you download the latest version and reburn it) until it is installed. The thumb drive will gradually fall further and further behind your full installation. (I think that makes sense....)
[14:51:13] <Bytram_dewey> back. Mouse has been re-energized.
[14:52:38] <janrinok> I hope your mouse is very happy
[14:53:27] <Bytram_dewey> Yes, it does. I was thinking along the lines of an interim measure where I can use Huey in concert with Dewey... ask questions, check things, whatever using Huey (USB stick) while getting Dewey up to speed... longer term, I think I need a NAS which has the master copy of my files that I can copy local to a laptop, when needed.
[14:53:46] <Bytram_dewey> or, at least, get a file server of some sort.
[14:54:09] <janrinok> it would be ideal for that. It would just be a pain to keep the 2 configurations identical - but that might not be important
[14:54:27] <Bytram_dewey> nod nod
[14:55:25] <janrinok> I've got about 5 minutes left, but I can be back on in a couple of hours or so. I'm willing to lose the odd hour of sleep tonight if you want me to work on something with you.
[14:55:50] <Bytram_dewey> while the disk duplication is going on, I think I may just spend today getting more familiar with using Mate.
[14:56:28] <Bytram_dewey> once I have that copy done, I can start copying over configs for Hexchat, Thunderbird, emacs, etc.
[14:56:35] <janrinok> sounds like a plan. Save up your questions such as 'How do I....' or ask Az to help you.
[14:57:57] <janrinok> It is the weekend so S only needs the routine medical care this evening (and feeding too I suppose) but some of the other tasks are not required tonight, or the nurses have agreed to do them themselves tomorrow morning.
[14:58:02] <Bytram_dewey> thanks so much for your gentle and patient assistance today... you done good! So go ask S if she'd give you a kiss for me... k?
[14:58:17] <janrinok> Lol - will do!
[14:58:24] <Bytram_dewey> yippee!
[14:59:23] <Bytram_dewey> okay, well past time for me to get breakfast and going about my day. Think I'll let things chug along and check back later.
[14:59:43] <Bytram_dewey> AzumaHazuki: thanks a bunch for *your* help! Much appreciated!
[14:59:47] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok++
[14:59:47] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 103
[14:59:51] <Bytram_dewey> AzumaHazuki++
[14:59:51] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 5
[14:59:51] <AzumaHazuki> good luck!
[14:59:55] <Bytram_dewey> AzumaHazuki++
[14:59:55] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 6
[15:00:07] <Bytram_dewey> mare sea!
[15:08:27] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: AzumaHazuki: In case I forget, remind me that a top priority once I have the dupe SSD created: copy over my ~400MB of Hexchat logs and get that running on Dewey! I don't recall how much of a buffer I have on ZNC, but I don't want that to run dry on me! (continuity++)
[15:08:45] <AzumaHazuki> 400MB of logs ye gods
[15:10:00] <Bytram_dewey> since 2014 when SoylentNews got started... A large chunch of that is #rss-bot, but also #Soylent, #editorial, and all told, prolly a dozen channels.
[15:10:15] <Bytram_dewey> s/chunch/chunk/
[15:10:15] <SedBot> <Bytram_dewey> since 2014 when SoylentNews got started... A large chunk of that is #rss-bot, but also #Soylent, #editorial, and all told, prolly a dozen channels.
[15:10:49] <Bytram_dewey> then there are all the PMs, too.
[15:11:55] -!- Subsentient has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[15:12:58] <Bytram_dewey> I could *probably* adjust ZNC preferences right *now* -- but that gives me the heebie geebies just thinking about it -- I'd so much rather have the logs in place so there is no question that activity gets logged.
[15:13:13] * Bytram_dewey takes a quick looks at the SN subs queue
[15:14:49] <Bytram_dewey> oh, and high on the list after Hexchat are: Thunderbird AND Pale Moon, too.
[15:46:02] <Bytram_dewey> dd progress: am now up to 205 GiB copied in 7355 s, 29.9 MB/s
[15:46:13] <Bytram_dewey> afk; biab
[15:46:49] <Bytram_dewey> that's out of 1 TB (931.5 GB)
[16:08:31] * chromas checks Bytram_dewey's emails for him while he's not got Thunderbird set up; deletes everything as spam
[16:15:21] <Bytram_dewey> dd progress: am now up to 254 GiB copied in 9116 s, 29.9 MB/s
[16:16:42] <chromas> Must be over USB
[16:17:30] <Bytram_dewey> about 6.5 hours to go.
[16:17:52] <Bytram_dewey> echo $TZ
[16:18:07] <Bytram_dewey> oops, wrong window
[16:18:43] * chromas doesn't have that variable
[16:21:40] <Bytram_dewey> nor do I, apparently. I noticed the time displayed at the top of the desktop was local time, so decided to go looking. Seems Mate has me in the NYC/Eastern time zone but I see none of that in a terminal window -- was just looking around...
[16:58:23] <Bytram_dewey> I have noticed that I've been "skinning my knuckles" a bit on Mate... mice are nice, but give me keyboard shortcuts -- and (ideally) make them *consistent*! Say what you will, but that is one thing that MS got absolutely right with their UI in Win 3.1! If need be, I could go pretty much all day without having to use a mouse!
[17:22:19] <chromas> Haven't used Mate much so I dunno. You'd've to consult janrinok probably.
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[18:09:16] <janrinok> Bytram_dewey, System-Preferences-Look and Feel-Mate Tweak - all the keyboard shortcuts, which are all programmable if you want to make them like Win3.1
[18:12:39] <janrinok> better still - System-Hardware-Keyboard Shortcuts
[18:13:24] <janrinok> sry, that should be System-Preferences-Hardware-Keyboard Shortcuts
[18:49:14] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: Muchos Gracias!
[19:02:34] <janrinok> how's the transfer doing?
[19:08:18] <Bytram_dewey> dd progress: am now up to 543 GiB copied in 19498s, 29.9 MB/s
[19:08:22] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: ^^^
[19:08:32] <janrinok> looking good but slow
[19:08:43] <Bytram_dewey> janrinok: is there a way to print out the list of keyboard shortcuts?
[19:08:59] * janrinok is thinking about that....
[19:09:30] <Bytram_dewey> My first hard disk was 40 MB... at this rate I would have been able to duplicate it in 1.5 seconds!
[19:09:42] <janrinok> I suspect that a search on the internet would be more useful, but they must be stored somewhere on the computer. I'm just wondering whereabout
[19:10:43] <Bytram_dewey> jjust wondering if you knew offhand... PrtScr just grabs the entire screen, so only grabs whatever is currently visible within the confines of that dialog box
[19:12:36] <janrinok> yep, it does
[19:12:57] <janrinok> but that is what the name says it does too
[19:14:03] <Bytram_dewey> IIRC, on Windows one can do someything like Ctrl+PrtScr to capture just the current window.
[19:14:12] <janrinok> again, there will be a tool to do just what you want, but it is not something that I have wanted to do.
[19:14:28] <Bytram_dewey> got it, tx!
[19:15:36] <janrinok> without wishing to be rude, you will have to stop saying ' but in Windows you can do xyz' - we know, but this isn't Windows. There will be a way, but I don't know it but you will become very frustrated if you are always comparing linux with Windows.
[19:17:03] <janrinok> It isn't easy to discard knowledge acquired over many years, but it is a hurdle that we have all had to overcome. I did the same - comparing things to windows - but in the end you either have to learn something new or go back to what you know.
[19:17:41] <Bytram_dewey> tru dat! OTOH, I'd like to think that if I am having these thoughts, someone else likely has, too - and prolly wrote up something to address it! ;)
[19:18:30] <janrinok> you can spend years discovering all sorts of useful software packages that you never knew that you needed but turn out to be indispensable in linux/unix
[19:19:18] <janrinok> by the way - if you want to know the time on the cli - type date! 'time' will give you the duration that a program runs for.
[19:19:24] <Bytram_dewey> yep... when I learned to speak German, well English had to "disappear" -- If I went to say or read something in German, it's like one part of my brain got swapped out and the German part was swapped in!
[19:20:39] <Bytram_dewey> yes, tx. Actually knew that one, through trial and error using Unix utilities under windows. It will be nice to have fully supported and current versions of all those!
[19:20:49] <janrinok> there are numerous settings that control how the 'date' if formatted - so it can give you the time if you ask it correctly. But searching through the GUI packages under the System menu will also show loads of ways to configure your system, including setting the tz etc
[19:22:03] * Bytram_dewey is actually somewhat familiar with the various %C%y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S parameters
[19:22:17] <janrinok> I'll bet you that before the end of the coming week you will consider switching back to Windows, but stick with it, it is worth it in the end.
[19:23:07] <Bytram_dewey> is why I am trying to NOT resurrect windows (besides it being End-of-Lifed)
[19:23:38] <Bytram_dewey> hard to go back to using something that is not working! :D
[19:24:27] <janrinok> fortunately, your scripts should transfer very easily and I can show you a way to integrate them into the desktop so that they exist and run automatically as any other program would
[19:24:43] <Bytram_dewey> one of the nice things about date is that it even supports calculations! Like what time willit be 10000 sec from now
[19:24:55] <Bytram_dewey> kewel
[19:25:09] <janrinok> so you can work out what time your transfer will finish?
[19:25:57] <janrinok> that would be a useful extension to combine with the dd command!
[19:26:28] <Bytram_dewey> fortunately I have some Bash experience from years ago (as well as cshell and -- shudder -- tcl/tk) and a host of other scripting languages. so, I know the kinds of things that can be automated; just need to get the corrent 'incantation' for the current one.
[19:26:54] <Bytram_dewey> a moment, pls
[19:29:04] <Bytram_dewey> 14 hr? nope! let me try again!
[19:29:11] <janrinok> How much of your editing for SN do you do from the CLI?
[19:30:01] <Bytram_dewey> not that much.... mostly use theplain vanilla gui (even on my mobile phone) but I *do* miss using...
[19:30:47] <Bytram_dewey> a Pale Moon addon which allows me to open a text area in emacs, make changes, save, and see the changes put back into the text box
[19:30:59] <Bytram_dewey> s/box/area/
[19:30:59] <SedBot> <Bytram_dewey> a Pale Moon addon which allows me to open a text area in emacs, make changes, save, and see the changes put back into the text area
[19:31:05] <janrinok> well that should still work on linux
[19:31:36] <Bytram_dewey> e.g. Intro Copy and Extended Copy fields
[19:32:05] <janrinok> if it is an PM extension/add-on it should behave just as it did before
[19:32:10] <Bytram_dewey> yep, just need to install Pale Moon and get it to replace FF (which I suspect it will offer to do)
[19:32:27] <Bytram_dewey> my thoughts exactly
[19:32:34] <Bytram_dewey> back to math.. brb
[19:33:01] <janrinok> it will leave FF on the computer as FF is one of the packages that make up the MATE desktop, but you can change PM to become your default browser and never use FF again
[19:33:30] <Bytram_dewey> was whata I was hoping. tx
[19:34:22] <Bytram_dewey> I'm am almost 2/3 done and it has been 21 K seconds... so, ~ 10 K seconds more which is...
[19:34:35] <janrinok> System - Preferences - Personal - Preferred Applications
[19:35:06] <Bytram_dewey> 166 minutes or about 2.8 hrs
[19:35:26] <Bytram_dewey> tx!
[19:35:35] <janrinok> methinks that you did not use the 'date' command for that....
[19:36:44] <janrinok> Oh, by the way, S sends you another virtual {{{{Bytram dewey}}}} from earlier on. I think that she is asleep now.
[19:36:50] <Bytram_dewey> I can't wait to get Hexchat going and my existing log files installed -- (ZNC++) -- question is how big were the buffers that I set up? I suspect some thiongs have been falling off by now. :/
[19:37:29] <Bytram_dewey> sleep is good! speaking/writing of which, please don't let me keep you up!
[19:37:40] <janrinok> well you haven't lost them - they are still on some drive or other and we will (eventually) recover them
[19:38:00] <Bytram_dewey> let me rephrase...
[19:38:06] <janrinok> I'm being a very naughty boy and having an extra hour on IRC
[19:39:27] <Bytram_dewey> ZNC is buffring things for me right *now*, up until whatever buffer size I set up... until I start Hexchat and pull things down I run the risk of exceeding that buffer size for 1 or mroe channels.
[19:39:33] <janrinok> ... and some channels are being logged anyway so you can get a copy from them anytime you want
[19:40:25] <Bytram_dewey> yes, 'cept those are being logged in UTC and mine are in my local TZ
[19:40:53] <janrinok> right - we will put Hexchat as the priority for tomorrow - but you will need Deucalion if you cannot remember how to set up ZNC - I can never remember it!
[19:41:33] <janrinok> well that is a quick script to corrects surely? and I will stop calling you Shirley
[19:41:38] <Bytram_dewey> also, format is slightly different as to what is recorded. e.g. I have certain msgs displayes in-channel like part/join messages.
[19:42:51] <Bytram_dewey> a nuisance at most, but still... has the potential to interfere with constructing straightforward grep expressions
[19:42:52] <janrinok> although I can see that you will lose some data - it isn't the end of the world is it?
[19:43:38] <janrinok> you are doing this just for your own benefit or is NSA paying you by the page?
[19:44:03] <Bytram_dewey> *can* I do it? yes, but how much time/coding/debuggin will it take? vs the value it might provide? As a short term, I can just accept that there exists a cap atm and just move on from there.
[19:44:10] <Bytram_dewey> s/cap/gap/
[19:44:10] <SedBot> <Bytram_dewey> *can* I do it? yes, but how much time/coding/debuggin will it take? vs the value it might provide? As a short term, I can just accept that there exists a gap atm and just move on from there.
[19:45:35] <Bytram_dewey> in preparation, do you use Hexchat? If so, can you tell me where it puts the log files? Oh... grrr... bringing over all my *preferences* is gonna be... 'fun'
[19:45:44] <janrinok> yep, I use hexchat
[19:46:19] <janrinok> I don't have any private logs, only what the system and ZNC have for me
[19:46:41] <Bytram_dewey> knowing where it puts both the prefs and the logs would be a *huge* help! Oh. k. Preferences, then?
[19:47:12] <janrinok> but /home/$user/.config/hexchat is where everything is stored
[19:48:10] <janrinok> .config is a hidden file, so you will need to select View-Show Hidden Files if you want to access it from the GUI
[19:48:54] <Bytram_dewey> CLI++ FTW!
[19:48:54] <Bender> karma - cli: 3
[19:49:15] <janrinok> logs has its own directory in the hexchat config area I've just indicated, and the conf files just live in the hexchat directory
[19:49:23] <Bytram_dewey> we don't need no steenkin GUI! ;^)
[19:51:01] <janrinok> yesterday you mentioned copying (cp) a drive to another drive - that would have missed all hidden files unless you had set the appropriate options, and could have changed ownership of them too
[19:51:23] <janrinok> cp bites if you do not use it correctly from the CLI
[19:51:31] <Bytram_dewey> would have been a cp -pr (or somethign like that)
[19:52:20] <janrinok> I think you would have needed a few more options to get what you were looking for but I didn't bother going too deep as neither I nor you were going to use it
[19:52:52] <Bytram_dewey> nod nod
[19:53:10] <janrinok> is your current Hexchat set up just the way you like it?
[19:54:05] <Bytram_dewey> minor differene, I have custom fonts on Win config (UTF-8) so will need to override those, o/w I*thing* I shold be fine
[19:55:50] <janrinok> I'm still a bit confused about what you are going to install where but as long as you are happy it doesn't matter to me. Are you planning on switching to your most powerful computer for Linux?
[19:57:38] <Bytram_dewey> my orig lappy was a Core 2 Duo; I picked up 3 (presumably) identical Dell Latitude E6410s and this one I am using right now is one of them
[19:58:06] <janrinok> so it doesn't matter which you use then
[19:58:59] <janrinok> My hour is coming to an end and I must soon wend my way bedwards
[19:59:03] <Bytram_dewey> right. and at only $25 each, it seemed like cheap insurance to get 3. shuold anything die... easy spare parts
[19:59:15] <janrinok> makes sense
[19:59:18] <Bytram_dewey> nod nod nod off to sleep!
[20:00:14] <janrinok> chat to you tomorrow as you take the next steps on your great adventure. Can I suggest that we use the QA channel rather than this one, unless you are trying to keep all your notes in one place?
[20:00:14] <Bytram_dewey> oh, I was using dc to do the time calc earlier (needed to figure out what fraction of the copy had been completed)
[20:00:58] <Bytram_dewey> I *like* that idea... gives more room in ZNC logs and also reduces "clutter" in this channel!
[20:01:22] <Bytram_dewey> sleep well, and thanks again!!
[20:01:26] <janrinok> OK, we will find each other somewhere and move to the other channel
[20:01:41] <Bytram_dewey> k
[20:01:50] <janrinok> np - enjoy watching your data transfer fail on the last byte....
[20:02:07] <janrinok> sleep well yourself!
[20:02:42] <janrinok> and if it does fail on the last byte ignore it - there is nothing of interest to you there!
[20:02:51] <Bytram_dewey> lol.. you may laugh, and they are (presxumably) identical drives, but I could just see that happening@ /me shudders!
[20:03:10] <Bytram_dewey> these are not the bytes you are looking for
[20:03:24] <Bytram_dewey> laters!
[20:03:41] <Bytram_dewey> AFK
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