#editorial | Logs for 2020-04-29

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[00:12:45] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #editorial
[00:37:51] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:37:53] <exec> └─ 13Visual-spatial learning disorder is more common than thought, finds study -- ScienceDaily
[00:37:54] <exec> 756 stories loaded
[00:37:55] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Visual-spatial learning disorder is more common than thought, finds study"
[00:38:25] <exec> error: something went wrong with your submission - maybe try again in a minute
[00:39:40] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:39:42] <exec> └─ 13Visual-spatial learning disorder is more common than thought, finds study -- ScienceDaily
[00:39:43] <exec> 756 stories loaded
[00:39:44] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Visual-spatial learning disorder is more common than thought, finds study"
[00:40:14] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[00:40:20] <exec> 755 stories loaded
[00:41:21] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:41:23] <exec> └─ 13TAMA300 blazes trail for improved gravitational wave astronomy -- ScienceDaily
[00:41:24] <exec> 755 stories loaded
[00:41:25] <exec> attempting to submit story: "TAMA300 blazes trail for improved gravitational wave astronomy"
[00:41:54] <exec> error: something went wrong with your submission - maybe try again in a minute
[00:43:28] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:43:31] <exec> └─ 13TAMA300 blazes trail for improved gravitational wave astronomy -- ScienceDaily
[00:43:32] <exec> 755 stories loaded
[00:43:32] <exec> attempting to submit story: "TAMA300 blazes trail for improved gravitational wave astronomy"
[00:44:03] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[00:44:08] <exec> 754 stories loaded
[00:44:23] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:44:25] <exec> it has been only 22 seconds since the last submission - please wait
[00:44:26] <exec> └─ 13Glacier detachments: A new hazard in a warming world? -- ScienceDaily
[00:45:08] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:45:10] <exec> └─ 13Glacier detachments: A new hazard in a warming world? -- ScienceDaily
[00:45:11] <exec> 754 stories loaded
[00:45:12] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Glacier detachments: A new hazard in a warming world?"
[00:45:42] <exec> error: something went wrong with your submission - maybe try again in a minute
[00:46:10] <Bytram> =submit https://arstechnica.com
[00:46:12] <exec> └─ 13Trump admin threatens to sue states that don’t lift pandemic orders | Ars Technica
[00:46:12] <systemd> Submitting "Trump admin threatens to sue states that don’t lift pandemic orders"...
[00:46:17] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:46:19] <exec> └─ 13Glacier detachments: A new hazard in a warming world? -- ScienceDaily
[00:46:21] <exec> 754 stories loaded
[00:46:21] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Glacier detachments: A new hazard in a warming world?"
[00:46:34] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Trump Admin Threatens to Sue States That Don’t Lift Pandemic Orders" (11 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:46:50] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[00:46:56] <exec> 753 stories loaded
[00:47:53] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:47:55] <exec> └─ 13Gut microbes influence how rat brains react to opioids -- ScienceDaily
[00:47:56] <exec> 753 stories loaded
[00:47:57] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Gut microbes influence how rat brains react to opioids"
[00:48:27] <exec> error: something went wrong with your submission - maybe try again in a minute
[00:49:44] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:49:46] <exec> └─ 13Gut microbes influence how rat brains react to opioids -- ScienceDaily
[00:49:47] <exec> 753 stories loaded
[00:49:48] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Gut microbes influence how rat brains react to opioids"
[00:50:14] <Bytram> =sub https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:50:15] <systemd> Submitting "Scientists explore the power of radio waves to help control fusion reactions"...
[00:50:15] <exec> └─ 13Scientists explore the power of radio waves to help control fusion reactions -- ScienceDaily
[00:50:18] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[00:50:24] <exec> 752 stories loaded
[00:50:37] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Scientists Explore the Power of Radio Waves to Help Control Fusion Reactions" (8 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:52:32] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:52:35] <exec> 752 stories loaded
[00:52:35] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Antibiotics may increase risk for opioid abuse"
[00:52:37] <exec> └─ 13Antibiotics may increase risk for opioid abuse: The common drug duo may be worsening the opioid crisis -- ScienceDaily
[00:53:06] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[00:53:12] <exec> 751 stories loaded
[00:57:38] <Bytram> =decli
[00:57:42] <Bytram> =declined
[00:57:42] <systemd> Thanks for submitting this story. It appears that no editor has yet selected this story to be run. At least a week has passed since the story was submitted, and if an editor was going to have selected it, they would likely have done so by now. It has, therefore, been removed from the submission queue.
[01:45:04] <Fnord666> IIRC the windows command line spawns a new instance of the environment, including the currently set variables, when you use the pipe operator
[01:45:09] <Fnord666> Bytram
[01:45:41] <Fnord666> I think your issue is how windows handles pipe operations
[01:45:53] <Fnord666> Which is different than *nix
[01:47:28] <Fnord666> The "environment" spawned for the "far side" of the pipe is different than the current environment and disappears when the command completes.
[02:06:32] <Fnord666> =cite http://dx.doi.org
[02:06:34] <systemd> Journal Reference E. Rodríguez, A. H. Reiman, N. J. Fisch. RF current condensation in the presence of turbulent enhanced transport, <cite>Physics of Plasmas</cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1063/5.0001881">10.1063/5.0001881</a>)
[02:06:35] <exec> └─ 13RF current condensation in the presence of turbulent enhanced transport: Physics of Plasmas: Vol 27, No 4
[02:07:14] <Bytram> Fnord666: Yes, and no.
[02:07:42] <Bytram> take a batch program, foo.bat that has a single command in it: set foo=plugh
[02:07:50] <Bytram> from the command prompt, issue:
[02:07:53] <Bytram> foo.bat
[02:07:57] <Bytram> set foo
[02:08:20] <Bytram> you will now see that foo is set to plugh
[02:09:05] <Fnord666> yup
[02:09:06] <Bytram> So, the calling environment gets the benefit of the change of value for the foo environment variable.
[02:09:19] <Bytram> I use this technique *extensively*
[02:09:22] <Bytram> but...
[02:09:28] <Bytram> echo testing | foo.bat
[02:09:44] <Bytram> and, suddenly, foo IS NOT set to plugh
[02:10:18] <Fnord666> Wait, from the same .bat file it UNSETS foo?
[02:10:19] <Bytram> same batch program, same calling environment, difference is only sending something to foo.bat
[02:10:30] <Bytram> umm, no
[02:10:36] <Bytram> try it.
[02:10:36] <Fnord666> Oh ok
[02:10:53] <Bytram> ECHO set foo=plugh>foo.bat
[02:10:56] <Bytram> call fo..bat
[02:10:58] <Bytram> ugh
[02:10:58] <Fnord666> one sec
[02:11:03] <Bytram> CALL foo.bat
[02:11:08] <Bytram> ECHO %foo%
[02:11:19] <Bytram> see it display: plugh
[02:11:22] <Bytram> set foo=
[02:11:31] <Bytram> (reset foo to be NOT set)
[02:11:36] <Bytram> echo testing | foo.bat
[02:11:41] <Bytram> echo %foo%
[02:12:05] <Fnord666> you should not get anything in foo at that point
[02:12:14] <Bytram> see foo is NOT set.
[02:12:16] <Bytram> why?
[02:12:26] <Bytram> It worked when I did not put it in a pipe
[02:12:32] <Fnord666> Do you know what a forked process is?
[02:12:38] <Bytram> yes
[02:12:47] <Fnord666> The RHS of the pipe is a forked process
[02:12:49] <Bytram> hmmm
[02:13:02] <Fnord666> It gets the environment as is when the command runs
[02:13:15] <Fnord666> Variables set in the child process are not propagated back to the parent
[02:13:18] <Bytram> yes, it inherits a copy of it
[02:13:38] <Bytram> so... add an indirection
[02:13:42] <Fnord666> So in your bat program you can set and use foo but it goes away when the child process ends
[02:14:02] <Bytram> ECHO CALL foo.bat>bar.bat
[02:14:15] <Bytram> bar.bat
[02:14:27] <Bytram> still gets foo set
[02:14:48] <Fnord666> Yep because both bar and foo are running in the same process
[02:15:07] <Bytram> I can nest and even recurse .bat files all day long and env vars are inherited down and propagated back all the time
[02:15:07] <Fnord666> Your "shell" process as sit were
[02:15:17] * Bytram prefers to stand
[02:15:21] <Bytram> ;)
[02:15:26] <Fnord666> lol
[02:15:30] <Bytram> =)
[02:15:52] <Bytram> so when foo.bat calls bar.bat, there is no foking going on?
[02:15:57] <Bytram> *forking
[02:16:09] <Bytram> or spooning, for that matter
[02:16:12] <Fnord666> As I understand it, no
[02:16:14] <Bytram> ;_
[02:16:21] <Fnord666> :-
[02:16:22] * Bytram ponders
[02:16:35] <Fnord666> The pipe handling in windows command line is an odd duck
[02:16:54] <Bytram> yeah, I'm all quaked up over it
[02:16:59] <Bytram> yeah, I'm all quacked up over it
[02:17:37] <Fnord666> darn. Caught me flat footed there
[02:18:02] <Bytram> so... foo.bat calls bar.bat calls bazz.bat is just a simple call/return with state (presumably) passed through a stack?
[02:18:47] <Bytram> well, actually, on the stack would be a pointer to an area of memory where the env vars are "held"
[02:18:48] <Fnord666> The call chain passes through the stack but the call does not create a new environment. It uses the current one
[02:19:00] <Fnord666> I think
[02:19:15] <Fnord666> That's why env vars set in the called program remain set in the caller's env
[02:19:21] <Bytram> so they all play in the same playground?
[02:19:37] <Fnord666> Yep, everyone craps in the same global litterbox
[02:19:47] <Bytram> !grab Fnord666
[02:19:47] <Bender> Added quote 94
[02:20:00] <Fnord666> Except for commands involved in pipe operations!
[02:20:20] <Fnord666> Stoopid winders
[02:20:53] <Bytram> whereas, with a fork, it's like Oprah Winfrey: You got a play ground! And, YOU got a play ground! And ALL OF YOU got a playground!
[02:21:16] <Bytram> You all got your own playgrounds! Fun for everybody!
[02:21:20] <Fnord666> Exactly. Everyone gets their own letterbox to crap in
[02:21:33] <Bytram> So far, so good...
[02:21:37] <Fnord666> Ssletterbox/litterbox/
[02:21:44] <Fnord666> nvm
[02:22:03] <Bytram> np
[02:22:12] <Bytram> Okay, digging deeper
[02:22:33] <Bytram> ECHO ECHO %1 %2 %4>foo.bat
[02:22:44] <Bytram> CALL foo.bat a b c d
[02:22:50] <Bytram> would output:
[02:22:52] <Bytram> a b d
[02:23:09] <Bytram> those would be passed on a stack, or something similar
[02:23:34] <Bytram> echo 1 2 3 4 5 | foo.bat
[02:23:37] <Fnord666> A stack frame for the call
[02:23:38] <Bytram> OTOH
[02:23:42] <Bytram> nod nd
[02:23:55] <Bytram> the pipe is a glorified queue
[02:24:31] <Bytram> And continuing... STDIN STDOUT STDERR are each separate queues
[02:24:50] <Bytram> is that corret?
[02:24:56] <Bytram> s/et/ect/
[02:24:58] <exec> <Bytram> is that correct?
[02:25:14] <Fnord666> We can think of them that way, yes.
[02:25:38] <Fnord666> In unix they are file handles just like any other file handle for a file you would open.
[02:25:42] <Fnord666> Windows not so much
[02:25:52] <Fnord666> But the queue analogy works
[02:25:59] <Bytram> don't tell me they use an actual file?
[02:26:08] <Bytram> (Or a rasp, same effect)
[02:26:20] <Fnord666> Windows may well do that IIRC.
[02:27:01] <Fnord666> the effect is the same regardless
[02:27:18] <Bytram> hopefully a file in a RAM disk. Otherwise things could get rather S L O W if one has booted DOS from a floppy
[02:27:23] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:28:56] <Fnord666> To make a long story short, look at the set function with /m option
[02:29:07] <Fnord666> damn autocorrect
[02:29:12] <Fnord666> setx
[02:29:33] <Fnord666> It sets a variable in the system environment rather than the local environment
[02:29:35] <Bytram> SETX?
[02:29:45] <Bytram> that's a new one to me
[02:30:00] <Fnord666> You may be able to use that in the piped program to set a variable that is persistent
[02:30:11] <Bytram> Woo Hoo!
[02:30:25] <Fnord666> You can even write variables to the registry
[02:30:48] <Fnord666> Or at least certain hives in the registry
[02:31:02] <Fnord666> HKEY_CURRENT_USER and HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
[02:31:55] <Bytram> Oh, wait. These are *permanent* settings?
[02:33:21] <Fnord666> Yes in that they will be set for all users
[02:33:53] <Bytram> How can I get a list of the variables, as well as the value of a single variable
[02:34:01] <Fnord666> If you edit the environment variables on windows, there are two sets, one set for the machine and one set for each user
[02:34:25] <Bytram> SET <-- shows me all the currently defined env vars
[02:34:38] <Fnord666> What does SETX show you?
[02:34:38] <Bytram> SET foo <!-- shows me the value of 'foo'
[02:34:50] <Fnord666> I'm not at a windows machine right now
[02:34:57] <Bytram> ERROR: Invalid syntax.
[02:34:57] <Bytram> Type "SETX /?" for usage.
[02:36:37] <Bytram> Now that I have a better understanding of what is going on, I see I'll just need to pass along (the name of) a file of some kind, and play with data from/in there
[02:37:00] <Fnord666> That would be another way and one I was just thinking about.
[02:38:04] <Bytram> though only part of a college language survey course, I learned many things from LISP, that has only come clear over the passing decades. =)
[02:38:47] <Fnord666> LISP is definitely one of those grenade languages
[02:38:57] <Fnord666> It takes a while for understanding to go off
[02:39:14] <Bytram> Call something to do something for you; it does its stuff, and when it is done... it *becomes* (well, kinda sorta but I think you get it) what you asked it to do.
[02:39:48] <Fnord666> (car (cdr mylist))
[02:39:55] <Bytram> yep!
[02:40:06] <Bytram> Ready for a trivia question?
[02:40:20] <Fnord666> Sure??
[02:40:24] <Bytram> 1.) did you know that CAR and CDR actually stand for something?
[02:40:41] <Fnord666> I did but I can't recall what off the top of my head
[02:40:53] <Fnord666> Something recursive for sure
[02:41:05] <Fnord666> Because LISP
[02:41:10] <Bytram> CAR = Contents of the Address Register; CDR = Contents of the Data Register
[02:41:20] <Fnord666> Ok I was way off
[02:41:30] <AzumaHazuki> i knew that one, oddly
[02:42:14] <Fnord666> car is an acronym from the phrase Contents of the Address part of the Register; and cdr is an acronym from the phrase Contents of the Decrement part of the Register. These phrases refer to specific pieces of hardware on the very early computer on which the Lisp language was developed.
[02:42:24] <Bytram> was never 'splained to me in school. Just something I went along with. Happened upon it somewhere several years later and was like... huh? What? OMG!
[02:42:24] <Fnord666> The popular explanation that CAR and CDR stand for "Contents of the Address Register" and "Contents of the Decrement Register"[1] does not quite match the IBM 704 architecture; the IBM 704 does not have a programmer-accessible address register and the three address modification registers are called "index registers" by IBM.
[02:42:33] <Fnord666> https://en.wikipedia.org
[02:42:34] <systemd> ^ 03CAR and CDR - Wikipedia
[02:42:34] <exec> └─ 13CAR and CDR - Wikipedia
[02:43:01] <Bytram> yeah, but didn't they do their stuff on DEC PDP/1 ... etc
[02:43:07] <Fnord666> More than I ever wanted to know about LISP
[02:43:18] <Bytram> Oh, wait the 704 precedes the PDP
[02:43:24] <Fnord666> Originally built on IBM 704
[02:43:33] <Bytram> gnawed gnawed
[02:43:59] <Fnord666> Lisp was originally implemented on the IBM 704 computer, in the late 1950s.
[02:44:12] <Fnord666> According to the wikipedia article
[02:45:13] <Bytram> earliest I used that it made any difference was an IBM 370 something. Dual proc. Had a rheostat that you could use to adjust the CPU clock speed.
[02:45:40] <chromas> So all the extra cycles just turned to heat?
[02:45:45] <Fnord666> Now you just turn on additional processors
[02:46:00] <Bytram> they just tooookkkk lllloooonnngggeeerrrrr
[02:46:25] <Fnord666> chromas, yeah, 0 ohms = fastest clock speed
[02:47:16] <Fnord666> Maybe it was just connected to a 555 timer
[02:47:36] <chromas> Did you get to adjust the speed or did a very expensive tech come in and turn it 1° per additional $1000?
[02:48:05] <Fnord666> Sounds about right for IBM billing
[02:48:33] <Fnord666> At work we order our z14s with twice the number of processors we usually use.
[02:48:36] <Bytram> real fun was testing VM operating system on one of two prototype IBM 3090s that existed in the world. At the operator's console. With a copy of VM runing on the bare metal. And in that VM was another VM (running 2nd level, they called it). And in *that* VM was yet aother VM (3rd level). There were optimizations in the code for each of those levels, and I was testing those optimizations. By single stepping the CPU and looking at the
[02:48:38] <Bytram> values in memory and in registers.
[02:48:59] <Fnord666> IBM can enable them on the fly if we need them for peak performance
[02:49:27] <Bytram> Oh, and that box could support more than 1,000 simultaneous users. Back in mid 1980s
[02:49:34] <Fnord666> Oh that sounds like a ton of fun
[02:50:01] <Fnord666> I'm kidding
[02:50:14] <Bytram> Also, was first person to ever get it past 999 pages of swapping per second.
[02:50:22] <Fnord666> Watching microcode run is like watching paint dry
[02:50:30] <Bytram> the IND USER command had a max of a 3-digit field.
[02:50:49] <Fnord666> Shades of Y2K!!
[02:50:56] * Bytram never got *that* low into the guts. Assembler was enough fun in its own right.
[02:51:09] <Fnord666> It still is
[02:51:20] <Bytram> I was running a "paging spider" to exercise the paging code
[02:51:34] <Bytram> walked all over memory forcing page-outs and page-ins
[02:51:48] <Fnord666> We just call that a bug
[02:52:16] <Bytram> this was with 32 MB of main memory (the max possible at the time) and this new thing they called extended memory
[02:52:20] <Fnord666> And our interns do it all the time
[02:52:26] <Bytram> lol
[02:52:38] <Bytram> previously all paging had beento disk
[02:53:00] <Bytram> we were now paging to extended memory. much much faster
[02:53:33] <Fnord666> Did it actually copy memory or page in extended memory into the memory address space via indirection?
[02:53:34] <Bytram> I was seeing it rapidly climb past 600, 700, 800, and started slowing down at low-mid 900s
[02:54:01] <Bytram> It would issue MVCL instructions, IIRC
[02:54:10] <Fnord666> gotcha
[02:54:53] <Bytram> copy an instruction (that happened to straddle a page boundary) to a couple pages down where it would straddle the next spare page boundary, and then jump there.
[02:55:28] <Bytram> that would in turn copy down to the *next* page boundary, etc.
[02:56:09] <Bytram> in other words straddling as many successive page boundaries as possible.
[02:56:40] <Fnord666> Ok that does sounds like fun
[02:56:51] <Bytram> If I was on page 0, it would copy the instruction to the boundary from page 1 to page 2 (so as to get two page faults at once)
[02:57:14] <Bytram> then it would branch there and copy to pages 3 and 4,
[02:57:17] <Bytram> etc.
[02:57:39] <Bytram> oh, ever hear of BC mode and EC mode?
[02:57:42] <Fnord666> yep. The memory bus probably started glowing after a while
[02:57:54] <Bytram> Basic Control Mode and Extended Control Mode.
[02:58:26] <Bytram> It was a single bit in the PCW, I think.
[02:58:34] <Fnord666> PSW
[02:58:41] <Bytram> status?
[02:58:48] <Bytram> yeah, could be
[02:59:19] <Bytram> One time, a guy payed for the upgrade from BC mode to EC mode.
[02:59:26] <Bytram> The Big $$$
[02:59:52] <Bytram> The Field Technician comes in, proper suit and tie and all that.
[03:00:11] <Bytram> Gets handed over to some tech to bring him to the computer room.
[03:00:57] <Bytram> Exec bids him well and asks the FE guy to fill him in on how it went.
[03:01:12] <Bytram> Tech leads the FE guy to the computer room
[03:01:42] <Bytram> Fe opens the back of a cabinet, pokes around for a couple minutes, puts the cover back on.
[03:01:57] <Bytram> Runs some diagnostics just to make sure all is well.
[03:02:10] <Bytram> Gets escorted back to the exec's office.
[03:02:25] <Bytram> 10-minutes tops.
[03:02:46] <Bytram> All's clear - works fine! Ta Ta! And the FE guy leaves,
[03:03:03] <Bytram> And, sure 'nuf. It *was* fine
[03:03:31] <Bytram> So, this exec who just spent big $$$ is wondering: What the heck did he *do*?
[03:03:52] <Bytram> Calls up a buddy in another dept who he knows is due for an upgrade soon.
[03:04:22] <Bytram> Calls him up, tells him what happened, asks him to pay very close attention to what got changed,
[03:04:38] <Bytram> A couple weeks later, he gets a call back
[03:04:47] <Bytram> You ain't gonna believe it.
[03:04:57] <Bytram> It was a... single jumper wire.
[03:05:16] <Bytram> Pull the bit or pull the bit low.
[03:05:32] <Bytram> =)
[03:05:57] <Bytram> Well, sure enough. That word got out and soon people were performing their own upgrade for *free*
[03:06:07] <Bytram> And IBM didn't seem to care.
[03:06:14] <Bytram> well
[03:06:40] <Bytram> Unless you ran into a bug on your system and had to call in IBM's service guys to debug it.
[03:07:03] <Bytram> And, if you were running in EC mode when he showed up, you might have some 'splaining to do.
[03:07:34] <Fnord666> Nah they just pull the jumper and watch your program fall on its face.
[03:07:35] <Bytram> So, as long as one could limp along debugging things in EC mode, you could take advantage of all the new goodies.
[03:08:40] <Bytram> But, eventually, you'd have to bring it back to BC mode, find a way to recreate the problem, and *then* you could call in the IBM folk
[03:09:19] <Bytram> But, if you could not reproduce it, you were dead-in-the-water, and the only way around it was to pay for the upgrade, and THEN you could call in the IBM folk to debug.
[03:09:47] <Bytram> IBM knew it might not be immediate, but you'd most likely eventually do the upgrade.
[03:10:06] <Bytram> Now that is what I call business savvy!
[03:10:27] <Fnord666> I thought this was the joke where the exec asks why he paid the FE $1,000 to flip a bit. The FE says you didn't pay me $1,000 to flip a bit, you paid me $1,000 to know which bit to flip!
[03:11:19] <Fnord666> Yeah, IBM has one of the savvyest accounting departments in the world.
[03:11:39] <Fnord666> Creative accounting to the max
[03:11:45] <Bytram> The best part is that, for IBM, it didn't cost them all that much more to implement the change in hardware. (Ignoring the R&D, of course).
[03:12:15] <Bytram> So, to simplify things, they just started making all their boxes EC-mode capable.
[03:12:41] <Bytram> And whenever anyone wanted one of the new features... a quick visit and... Ka-ching!
[03:12:43] <Fnord666> absolutely.
[03:13:09] <Fnord666> Even today they get one customer to pay to have them develop something then sell it to all their other customers
[03:13:18] <Bytram> Not that I witnessed it first hand, or anything like that.
[03:13:41] <Bytram> But that's the story I was told by one of the senior VM folk when I worked there.
[03:13:53] <Bytram> same as it ever was
[03:14:09] <chromas> And that wire gets longer every time you tell that story :D
[03:14:17] <Fnord666> When I first started at my current job we had a small office/bunkhouse where the assigned IBM FE lived
[03:14:57] <Fnord666> Water tanks on the roof, water chillers on the floor. etc.
[03:15:12] <Bytram> Not the first time I've heard the story of customer A paying for something custom. It's non-exclusive. And the company later starts offering it for sale it everywhere.
[03:15:26] <Fnord666> Always interesting to lift the floor tile and see cabling running through water underneath
[03:15:34] <Bytram> yup
[03:15:45] <Fnord666> And dead rats
[03:15:58] <Bytram> Gets really intersting when trying to pull old cables.
[03:16:04] <Fnord666> When we moved the DC and decommissioned the current raised floor space
[03:16:05] <chromas> Cables in water?
[03:16:09] <chromas> Is that their data pool?
[03:16:12] <Bytram> not all cables are marked as they should have been
[03:16:15] <Fnord666> Yes, yes it is
[03:16:22] <Bytram> just in the depend
[03:16:28] <Fnord666> No one ever pulled old cables.
[03:16:43] <Bytram> renovations going on in our building at IBM.
[03:16:44] <Fnord666> The cut them off, tagged them, and ran new ones
[03:16:51] <Bytram> Zactly
[03:17:05] <Fnord666> The floor tiles wouldn't go all the way down in some places
[03:17:20] <Bytram> We had too many system crashes when an 'old' cable that was pulled was actually still in use.
[03:17:21] <Fnord666> Easier to just move the DC when it got "full"
[03:17:29] <Fnord666> exactly
[03:17:51] <Bytram> Our whole *building* got moved when they ran out of raised floor space and conduit.
[03:17:55] <Fnord666> Or the old cable pulled a live one loose. Where the hell did this end go to?
[03:18:09] <Bytram> Build a brand new building and razed the old one
[03:18:13] <Bytram> oops!
[03:19:07] <Bytram> I'm sure they prolly gathered the old cable for scrap value (copper and all that), but it can't be anywhere near the value of buying and running new cables!
[03:19:29] <Bytram> Oi!
[03:19:40] * Bytram just noticed the time
[03:19:52] * Bytram was aiming for bed over an hour ago.
[03:20:02] <Fnord666> You missed
[03:20:03] <chromas> 40 minutes until pumpkin time
[03:20:28] <Fnord666> Does that mean you're sleeping on the floor?
[03:20:48] <Fnord666> Cause that's hard on the body ya know
[03:21:08] <Bytram> I wonder if it is hard to learn how to sleep in zero G
[03:21:13] <chromas> Especially when those unused cables spring up
[03:21:30] <Fnord666> Nah, that's just lumbar support
[03:21:32] <Bytram> It's a Queen Snake! -- Gilligan
[03:22:11] <Fnord666> Zero G is probably problematic for a lot of things
[03:22:28] <Bytram> yeah, don't puke.
[03:22:36] <Bytram> whereto? http://feedproxy.google.com
[03:22:36] <systemd> ^ 03Dancing black holes create mega flare brighter than one trillion stars ( https://www.cnet.com )
[03:23:08] <Bytram> =submit from the you-light-up-my-life dept. https://www.cnet.com
[03:23:10] <systemd> Submitting "Dancing black holes create mega flare brighter than one trillion stars"...
[03:23:10] <exec> └─ 13Dancing black holes create mega flare brighter than one trillion stars - CNET
[03:23:14] <chromas> Can't use a level to hang pictures
[03:23:19] <Fnord666> Or anything else that results in the emission of bodily fluids
[03:23:23] <Bytram> velcro
[03:23:31] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Dancing Black Holes Create Mega Flare Brighter Than One Trillion Stars" (11 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:23:55] <Fnord666> Gravity, it's not just a good idea, it's the law
[03:24:11] <Bytram> how 'bout a haircut? Or trimming a beard? Or dyeing your hair? Go up blonde, come back brunette.
[03:24:29] <Bytram> yep, that and 3x10^8 m/s
[03:24:36] <chromas> Do astronauts have Flowbees?
[03:24:51] <Fnord666> OMG someone else who knows what a Flowbee is!
[03:25:16] <chromas> Only because they used to advertise on tv all the time back in the 90s
[03:25:25] * Bytram tries and fails to work in a Nair reference
[03:25:31] <Fnord666> These days I'm wondering if they still make them
[03:25:33] * Bytram decides to go to bed, instead.
[03:25:39] <Fnord666> Getting a little shaggy
[03:25:49] <Fnord666> Good night Bytram
[03:25:52] <Fnord666> Pleasant dreams
[03:25:59] <Bytram> The shag who spied me?
[03:26:02] <Fnord666> And thank for pushing out all those stories!
[03:26:04] <Bytram> ba dum, tish
[03:26:07] <Fnord666> Bytram++
[03:26:07] <Bender> karma - bytram: 94
[03:26:41] <Bytram> likewise. The other day you pushed out a bunch and I'd don't think I thanked you proper for that.
[03:26:48] <Bytram> Fnord666++ thank you@
[03:26:48] <Bender> karma - fnord666: 149
[03:26:57] <Bytram> ~gnight chromas
[03:26:59] * exec repeatedly redundantly combines an animated gif of perl scripts with chromas
[03:27:01] <Bytram> ~gnight FatPhil
[03:27:02] * exec communistically coalesces 40 gallons worth of black ice with FatPhil
[03:27:14] <Bytram> now htat
[03:27:25] <Bytram> now that's *cold*
[03:27:46] <Fnord666> sadtrombone.mp3
[03:27:46] <Bytram> hoe much is that in cubic feet?
[03:28:18] <Fnord666> Only Minecraft characters have cubic feet
[03:28:58] <chromas> =g'nite Bytram
[03:28:58] * systemd irrevocably pisses a tube of nasty v on Bytram
[03:29:01] <Bytram> 40 pounds at 8.4 lbs per gallon and about 1.05 quarts per liter and 39.37 inches per meter
[03:29:44] <Fnord666> eww
[03:31:27] <Bytram> Fnord666: thanks for the explainer on calls vs pipes! I knew the concepts, but didn't realize that was what I was seeing. Now I understand, and that helps put my mind at rest. Came at it from a strange angle and had too much prior experience of seeing it one way, needed some help to get the right perspective.
[03:31:52] <Bytram> laters!
[03:32:09] <Fnord666> You're welcome.
[03:32:15] <Fnord666> Glad to be able to help
[03:32:19] <Fnord666> Laters!
[03:35:07] <Fnord666> =cite http://dx.doi.org
[03:36:48] <chromas> That's a screwy looking site
[03:52:28] <Fnord666> =cite http://dx.doi.org
[03:52:31] <systemd> Journal Reference Michael R. Wilczynska, John K. Webb, Matthew Bainbridge, et al. Four direct measurements of the fine-structure constant 13 billion years ago [open], <cite>Science Advances</cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.aay9672">10.1126/sciadv.aay9672</a>)
[03:52:32] <exec> └─ 13Four direct measurements of the fine-structure constant 13 billion years ago | Science Advances
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[04:41:44] -!- chromas has quit [Quit: chromas]
[04:44:16] -!- chromas [chromas!~chromas@Soylent/Staph/Editor/chromas] has joined #editorial
[04:44:16] -!- mode/#editorial [+v chromas] by Hephaestus
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[06:04:26] -!- Cascade [Cascade!~drinkme@HonestlyNotaBot/Cascade] has joined #editorial
[12:25:59] <Bytram> http://www.innovations-report.com
[12:26:01] <exec> └─ 13Gravitational wave astronomy: Black holes have no hair
[12:26:01] <systemd> ^ 03Gravitational wave astronomy: Black holes have no hair ( https://www.innovations-report.com )
[12:28:36] <Bytram> beg-o-meter update
[12:40:52] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #editorial
[12:47:20] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: o/
[12:48:15] <AzumaHazuki> o/
[12:48:28] <Bytram> How ya doin' this morning?
[12:49:09] <AzumaHazuki> hoping that senna tablet works > This, too, shall pass?
[12:49:40] <Bytram> Has same trouble off and on
[12:50:00] <Bytram> fibre, and *water* seems to help
[12:51:01] <Bytram> oh, and a little oil in my cooking seems to help lubricate things through. Don't know why; just from observations. Could just be my microbiome, too.
[12:51:33] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, i don't drink enough water either...started to change that as of yesterday
[12:51:43] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki++
[12:51:43] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 1
[12:51:50] <Bytram> Huh?
[12:51:51] <Bytram> Huh?
[12:51:55] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki++
[12:51:55] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 2
[12:51:56] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki++
[12:51:56] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 3
[12:51:58] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki++
[12:51:58] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 4
[12:52:05] <AzumaHazuki> whoa o.o just for water?
[12:52:17] <Bytram> heh
[12:53:03] <Bytram> "Any job done well, no matter how small, is deserving of praise." Was framed on a wall in one of High School homerooms.
[12:53:22] <Bytram> As you can tell, that stuck with me. =)
[12:53:39] <Bytram> Also, vinegar, honey, and bees.
[12:54:06] <Bytram> I know that *I* certainly respond better to praise than to criticism.
[12:54:58] <Bytram> I take it you are getting ready for work. Hope you have a good day!
[12:55:08] * Bytram has some stuff to get to
[12:55:11] <Bytram> laters!
[12:55:50] <Bytram> whereto? https://go.theregister.co.uk
[12:55:51] <systemd> ^ 03Mystery cloud added 10,000 new AMD Epyc servers in under ten days to handle demand for you know what ( https://www.theregister.co.uk )
[12:55:52] <exec> └─ 13Mystery cloud added 10,000 new AMD Epyc servers in under ten days to handle demand for you know what • The Register
[12:56:28] <AzumaHazuki> ah...i've got another 45m or so
[12:56:42] <Bytram> Nice.
[12:56:56] <Bytram> That reminds me, I should make some breakfast!
[12:57:41] <janrinok> what? Having breakfast at a reasonable time of the day? You must be unwell!
[12:58:12] <Bytram> gotta start *some* where!
[12:58:19] <Bytram> afk, biab
[12:59:37] <janrinok> ~gday AzumaHazuki
[12:59:38] * exec gaily pisses a finger of peach juice on AzumaHazuki
[13:00:05] * janrinok thinks that wasn't a very polite way to greet somebody
[13:46:01] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[18:01:09] * chromas thinks it was
[18:02:28] <janrinok> fairy 'nuff
[18:02:48] <janrinok> how's things?
[18:03:06] <chromas> Maybe you're right. It was only a finger. Need more peach juice
[18:04:57] <chromas> Not bad. Been trying to get Redmine running. Ruby-based servers don't seem to work to well for me though. Phabricator works though
[18:06:17] <janrinok> never tried either. so can't provide any help other than encouragement from the sidelines
[18:06:50] <chromas> I'd also tried gitlab but it just wanted to eat all the cpu
[18:07:20] <chromas> and how are you? any gardenings?
[18:07:26] <janrinok> yeah, I heard you mention that a day or two back. I've not had much time recently to join in much - still haven't either!
[18:08:30] <janrinok> No, not doing anything that I particularly enjoy but lots of boring essential stuff that is made much more difficult by social distancing etc
[18:08:55] <janrinok> as a result I am very tired and struggling a bit
[18:28:29] <chromas> :(
[20:40:51] <Fnord666> =declined
[20:40:51] <systemd> Thanks for submitting this story. It appears that no editor has yet selected this story to be run. At least a week has passed since the story was submitted, and if an editor was going to have selected it, they would likely have done so by now. It has, therefore, been removed from the submission queue.
[22:26:03] <Bytram> ~arthur https://phys.org
[22:26:06] <exec> └─ 134-billion-year-old nitrogen-containing organic molecules discovered in Martian meteorites
[22:26:07] <exec> 922 stories loaded
[22:26:08] <exec> attempting to submit story: "4-billion-year-old nitrogen-containing organic molecules discovered in Martian meteorites"
[22:26:37] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[22:26:43] <exec> 921 stories loaded
[22:29:04] <Bytram> ~arthur https://phys.org
[22:29:06] <exec> └─ 13Spitzer Telescope reveals the precise timing of a black hole dance
[22:29:07] <exec> 921 stories loaded
[22:29:08] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Spitzer Telescope reveals the precise timing of a black hole dance"
[22:29:32] <Bytram> =submit https://phys.org
[22:29:34] <systemd> Submitting "Asteroid 1998 OR2 to safely fly past Earth this week"...
[22:29:34] <exec> └─ 13Asteroid 1998 OR2 to safely fly past Earth this week
[22:29:38] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[22:29:44] <exec> 920 stories loaded
[22:29:55] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Asteroid 1998 OR2 to Safely Fly Past Earth This Week" (9 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:31:05] <Bytram> ~srthur https://phys.org
[22:31:06] <exec> └─ 13'Wobble' may precede some great earthquakes, study shows
[22:31:07] <Bytram> ~arthur https://phys.org
[22:31:09] <exec> └─ 13'Wobble' may precede some great earthquakes, study shows
[22:31:11] <exec> 920 stories loaded
[22:31:12] <exec> attempting to submit story: "'Wobble' may precede some great earthquakes, study shows"
[22:31:41] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[22:31:47] <exec> 919 stories loaded
[22:32:52] <Bytram> whereto? http://feedproxy.google.com
[22:32:53] <systemd> ^ 032016 Dodge driver racks up 180-mph speeding ticket on Michigan freeway - Roadshow ( https://www.cnet.com )
[22:33:07] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[22:33:08] <systemd> ^ 03Hertz may file for bankruptcy after missing lease payment, report says - Roadshow ( https://www.cnet.com )
[22:33:49] <Bytram> =submit from the well-that-sure-hertz dept. https://www.cnet.com
[22:33:50] <systemd> Submitting "Hertz may file for bankruptcy after missing lease payment, report says - Roadshow"...
[22:33:51] <exec> └─ 13Hertz may file for bankruptcy after missing lease payment, report says - Roadshow
[22:34:12] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Hertz May File for Bankruptcy After Missing Lease Payment, Report Says - Roadshow" (6 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:34:40] <Bytram> ~arthur https://go.theregister.co.uk
[22:34:42] <exec> └─ 13Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes, and cloud-based IoT gear bricked by vendors. Looking at you, Belkin • The Register
[22:34:43] <exec> 919 stories loaded
[22:34:44] <exec> story not found
[22:36:45] <Bytram> =submit https://go.theregister.co.uk
[22:36:46] <systemd> Submitting "Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes, and cloud-based IoT gear bricked by vendors. Looking at you, Belkin"...
[22:36:46] <exec> └─ 13Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes, and cloud-based IoT gear bricked by vendors. Looking at you, Belkin • The Register
[22:37:07] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08Three Things in Life are Certain: Death, Taxes, and Cloud-based IoT Gear Bricked by Vendors. Looking" (18 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:43:25] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[22:43:28] <exec> └─ 13Simple 'sniff test' reliably predicts recovery of severely brain injured patients -- ScienceDaily
[22:43:28] <exec> 919 stories loaded
[22:43:29] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Simple 'sniff test' reliably predicts recovery of severely brain injured patients"
[22:43:59] <exec> error: something went wrong with your submission - maybe try again in a minute
[22:46:53] <Bytram> =submit https://www.sciencedaily.com https://www.sciencedaily.com https://www.sciencedaily.com
[22:46:55] <systemd> Submitting "First randomized trial of remdesivir suggests antiviral drug is not associated with significant clinical benefits, more research needed"...
[22:46:56] <exec> ├─ 13First randomized trial of remdesivir suggests antiviral drug is not associated with significant clinical benefits, more research needed -- ScienceDaily
[22:46:56] <exec> ├─ 13NIH clinical trial shows remdesivir accelerates recovery from advanced COVID-19 -- ScienceDaily
[22:46:57] <exec> └─ 13Antiviral remdesivir prevents disease progression in monkeys with COVID-19: Study supports clinical testing under way across U.S. -- ScienceDaily
[22:47:17] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08First Randomized Trial of Remdesivir Suggests Antiviral Drug is Not Associated With Significant Clin" (30 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:48:07] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[22:48:09] <exec> └─ 13Offspring may inherit legacy of their father's Toxoplasma infection -- ScienceDaily
[22:48:10] <exec> 919 stories loaded
[22:48:11] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Offspring may inherit legacy of their father's Toxoplasma infection"
[22:48:34] <Bytram> =submit https://arstechnica.com
[22:48:36] <systemd> Submitting "First bit of success from a randomized trial of a COVID-19 treatment [UPDATED]"...
[22:48:36] <exec> └─ 13First bit of success from a randomized trial of a COVID-19 treatment [UPDATED] | Ars Technica
[22:48:40] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[22:48:46] <exec> 918 stories loaded
[22:48:58] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03First Bit of Success From a Randomized Trial of a COVID-19 Treatment [UPDATED]" (15 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:50:19] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[22:50:21] <exec> └─ 13Memory misfires help selfish maintain their self-image -- ScienceDaily
[22:50:22] <exec> 918 stories loaded
[22:50:23] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Memory misfires help selfish maintain their self-image"
[22:50:53] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[22:50:58] <exec> 917 stories loaded
[22:54:09] <Bytram> ~arthur https://arstechnica.com
[22:54:12] <exec> └─ 13Tesla stock leaps after unexpected profit | Ars Technica
[22:54:12] <exec> 917 stories loaded
[22:54:13] <exec> story not found
[23:27:48] <Bytram> =g groundhog day phil
[23:27:49] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org(film) - Groundhog Day (film) - Wikipedia