#editorial | Logs for 2020-03-22

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[01:47:02] <Bytram> =The Purge movie
[01:47:06] <Bytram> =gThe Purge movie
[01:47:06] * systemd slowly refactors a TCP stream of humor for Purge movie
[01:47:10] <Bytram> =g The Purge movie
[01:47:10] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org(2013_film) - The Purge (2013 film) - Wikipedia
[01:52:31] <Bytram> yeah, no.
[02:03:34] <Bytram> =g eNASCAR iRacing Pro Initiatational Series
[02:03:35] <systemd> https://www.iracing.com - eNASCAR iRacing Pro Series Preview: Charlotte - iRacing.com ...
[02:06:11] <Bytram> =g eNASCAR iRacing Pro Invitational Series
[02:06:12] <systemd> https://www.foxsports.com - FOX Sports to Deliver Sunday's Inaugural eNASCAR iRacing Pro ...
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[03:20:56] <Bytram> good night everybody
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[09:50:44] <janrinok> hi carny
[10:30:54] <carny> hi
[10:31:51] <carny> did you see the cyclist video FatPhil found?
[10:32:17] <carny> looks like it wasn't in this room
[10:32:19] <carny> https://www.youtube.com
[10:32:21] <systemd> ^ 03Coronavirus Special Report -- J.C. on a bike -- Harvard to the Bighouse
[11:12:06] <carny> Bytram: you should watch that too
[11:12:50] <carny> and there are links to the references in the description
[11:13:05] <Bytram> janrinok++ I see you pushed out two stories... I hope that is a sign that things are calming down a bit for you! Please please PLEASE do not overextend yourself... although I have not seen it specifically mentioned, exhaustion certainly does nothing to help your body fight off infection!
[11:13:05] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 90
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[12:17:54] <janrinok> Bytram, a quick question. The email that I sent 2 days ago, did it have the correct sender email address please? It should have been the usual jr@sn.org etc
[12:28:39] <Bytram> yes, it had your official SN email addy: janrinok (at) soylentnews (dot) org
[12:28:48] <Bytram> afk phone call
[13:44:40] <janrinok> Re pushing out 2 stories - I had to do something while waiting for the nurse to finish.... I am fine, thank you. I'm tired but what I need is a few weeks rest, not 15 minutes of waiting for the nurse.
[13:45:41] <carny> if you're not already in lockdown for a few weeks you soon will be
[13:47:13] <janrinok> I _am_ in lockdown - we cannot leave the house without having the appropriate declaration, it's been like that for over a week now. And the nearest COVID-19 sufferer was less than 500 metres from us.
[13:50:59] <janrinok> It's no problem though - everyone is coping well and following the appropriate advice. Nothing to get overly excited about.
[14:01:52] <Cascade> Remain inside your domicile, citizen! And you'd better not be hiding any achoos in there.
[14:02:55] <carny> janrinok: now that it's hitting right next door have you changed your mind about what people have been trying to warn you about?
[14:04:19] <janrinok> Nope, I believe that the experts tell me, not unproven facts from imgur, Youtube, Twitter or Facebook. There are as many fake cures and incorrect figures from those sources as there are factual pieces of information.
[14:05:26] <carny> even when all those facts you don't like are proven correct?
[14:05:30] <janrinok> I've been shot at in 3 wars, survived a missile attack and several other adventures. Panicking or trying to induce fear in others isn't going to solve this problem.
[14:05:56] <carny> if you can handle a biologist using big words you might benefit from watching that video i linked
[14:06:14] <janrinok> https://www.bbc.co.uk - now they are all social media claims that are proven NOT to be accurate
[14:06:17] <systemd> ^ 03Six coronavirus health myths fact-checked
[14:06:25] <carny> or i guess you can keep your head in the sand where it's nice and quiet
[14:06:57] <janrinok> I have, and he might be correct. But that doesn't mean the rest of the sources were or are also correct.
[14:07:12] <carny> which ones were incorrect?
[14:07:26] <carny> the papers from the lancet?
[14:08:36] <janrinok> It is not in the sand. I haven't said COVID-19 doesn't exist - but I'm still suggesting that panicking or spreading unsubstantiated claims on social media is not going to help.
[14:08:56] <carny> since when did i ever suggest panicking is a good idea?
[14:09:22] <carny> panicking is what ignorant people do when they don't have enough good information to formulate a proper response
[14:09:31] <carny> that's what i'm trying to combat
[14:09:36] <janrinok> you were pushing social media (imgur) stories before any scientific or medical evidence was available to support the claims
[14:10:40] <janrinok> there was not, and is not, any way of verifying the claims seen on social media. We will not be publishing them.
[14:11:02] <carny> wrong
[14:11:33] <carny> i was showing imgur links that were pointing out facts on the ground that were being supressed by a number of governments and ngos
[14:12:14] <carny> i dismissed the obvious bull shit like people talking about putting bleach in their drinking water to 'kill the virus inside you'
[14:12:58] <janrinok> Maybe in the USA - that is your internal problem. I have not found any governments in Europe doing that, and they are all providing advice backed by scientific evidence.
[14:13:12] <carny> you don't have a single example of me sharing nonsense like that because that's not what i do
[14:14:00] <carny> like the scientific evidence that a coronavirus that somehow has been hybridized with hiv came from pangolins or bats?
[14:14:34] <janrinok> You could not and would not prove any of your reporting - for perfectly understandable reasons.
[14:14:43] <carny> face it janrinok you are being lied to by people you trust and you're being told the truth by people you refuse to listen to
[14:15:42] <janrinok> Your expertise apparently comes from imgur - but you suggest that I am being lied to by scientists and governments. Give me examples that apply to me - not to the USA.
[14:16:11] <carny> lol
[14:16:54] <janrinok> What the USA does internally is a problem for Americans. Give me an example that applies to Europe. Change the bloody president if you don't like the one you have elected.
[14:16:56] <carny> after watching this virus march across the entire globe how can you possibly imagine that the usa's problems are not your problems?
[14:17:53] <carny> i'm not even sure what country you live in but i can say with complete confidence that your government is lying to you because they are all continuing to swallow the lies of the who and the cdc
[14:18:15] <carny> case in point are you receiving masks yet?
[14:18:18] <janrinok> If they are our problems - give us a vote in America. And I live in France
[14:19:34] <janrinok> no because there are insufficient masks for everybody - but they are being provided to those that need them. The nurses that attend my wife twice a day have them, and the gloves, and the rest.
[14:19:56] <janrinok> That doesn't mean anyone is lying to me, it means that there are insufficient masks.
[14:20:10] <carny> isn't it strange that the people you trust are telling you that you and your wife don't need masks and wouldn't benefit from them?
[14:20:21] <carny> but that health care workers do?
[14:20:37] <carny> that's the official doctrine from the who
[14:20:51] <janrinok> But I don't need them in my home. They wouldn't help me. Yes, health care workers are getting them. I've just said that.
[14:22:12] <carny> you wouldn't need to be in lockdown if the public were issued masks and forced to wear them outside of the home
[14:22:26] <carny> masks work
[14:22:28] <janrinok> If I am not in contact with the virus - I cannot contract the virus. That is the whole point of the isolation measures being taken. There are also insufficient beds, but by reducing the rate of infection we can manage. There are insufficient ventilators - but no country has enough to meet the needs they now face.
[14:22:31] <carny> gloves work
[14:23:00] <carny> you are just repeating the talking points of the public health politicians
[14:24:02] <carny> but you fail to mention that there are millions of french citizens who have already been exposed and are still asymptomatic so the isolation you are so happy to comply with won't work
[14:24:16] <carny> because they won't tell you that
[14:24:33] <janrinok> I've got gloves and standard masks in my home, but I have always had them because I am a primary carer for a another person. Those masks are not suitable for protection against the virus. A higher standard of mask is required and they are for the people treating COVID-19 cases.
[14:25:17] <janrinok> If those people do not come in my home - what is goind to happen. Are they going to post the virus to me?
[14:26:03] <janrinok> But it isn't the government or 'the man' that is not telling me that.
[14:27:18] <janrinok> People will die. They die everyday in huge numbers. So we all take the sensible precautions and get on with it. Not cower and put our faith in social media.
[14:29:23] <janrinok> I might already be asymptomatic, so might my wife. So staying in isolation avoids passing on that infection to others. And who are these people that are not staying indoors. The only ones I can see have justifiable reasons for doing what they are doing.
[14:30:17] <carny> you are talking irrelevancies to make yourself feel better
[14:30:32] <janrinok> We have police checks on movement. Our shops separate the timings for old/vulnerable people, health and other essential workers, and everyone else.
[14:30:51] <carny> you prefer to have your head in the sand and believe lies and half truths rathern than understand the true nature of the threats facing you
[14:31:49] <janrinok> I am an optimist and you are a pessimist - so what? How does that change anything. I have no half-truths in my head - you just want to believe that I do because I don't agree with your alarm and despondency
[14:32:15] <carny> instead of spending half an hour arguing with me why don't you spend 25 minutes watching that video?
[14:32:25] <carny> you might learn something useful
[14:33:05] <janrinok> I have got the references - why do I have to watch the video as well. What does he say that is NOT included in the references (and therefore is unverifiable)
[14:33:09] <carny> in case you're not familiar with american institutions upmc is an excellent teaching hospital
[14:34:12] <janrinok> We have many in Europe too - so what? You are not the only country that can make such a claim - but you are the only one that is still having a problem actually implementing the measures throughout the whole country.
[14:34:25] <carny> so you went to the youtube link and clicked on all the reference links but paused the video so you didn't have to watch it?
[14:34:47] <carny> your america bashing is wasted on me
[14:35:09] <janrinok> I'm not bashing America but I am bashing your politicians.
[14:35:10] <carny> i criticized the system from the inside as well as outside
[14:35:52] <carny> i doubt you know much about what's going on here
[14:36:20] <carny> since i think your news sources are mostly leftist propaganda outlets
[14:36:37] <janrinok> Imagine refusing to let a cruise ship dock because 'that would make the figures appear much higher' (Trunmp) How about saving lives and forgetting the fact that it is election year
[14:37:12] <janrinok> leftist propaganda - almost the whole world is left both of your major parties.
[14:37:56] <janrinok> So you are resorting to i think your news sources are mostly leftist propaganda outlets
[14:40:16] <carny> trump bashing is boring to me
[14:40:17] <janrinok> we have free health care - not only the rich get it. We are distributing food for free to vulnerable groups. The UK is paying %80 of the wages of those put out of work because of the Virus. Match that. I would rather be considered to be left wing than uncaring and self-centred
[14:40:21] <carny> i do enough of it myself
[14:40:32] <carny> i don't need your help
[14:41:02] <carny> since you continue to change the subject i'm going to go do something more useful
[14:41:18] <janrinok> you brought it in by claiming that our governments are lying to us - no they are not. Everything that is being done is backed by scientific evidence not somebody on social media
[14:41:28] <carny> enjoy your lockdown
[14:41:48] <janrinok> I will - you enjoy yours too, you know that it is coming
[14:49:13] <janrinok> carny, sorry, I didn't answer one of your questions. That video that you linked to has been out for some time, I have watched it before you mentioned it here.
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[15:24:28] <Bytram> Early in my mathematics education, basic algebra I was taught to "show my work". Later I came to learn "Anything with a false premise necessarily has a true conclusion" (If I had a billion dollars I'd give you a million. Since I do not have a billion, you get nothing.) IOW, need to start from a SOLID foundation... and only from there can one proceed. And those proceedings need to be explicated and shown along the way. Though it
[15:24:28] <Bytram> started well before algebra in a simpler form, that was when a formal process was made known to me. And upon that foundation I learned geometry, trigonometry, calculus (several year's worth), linear algebra, and differential equations. I have even taken a course where we started from the Peano axioms ( https://en.wikipedia.org ) and rigorously derived integers, rational numbers, irrational numbers, and the imaginary
[15:24:29] <Bytram> numbers.. all based on a solid basis with all work explicated so anyone else could follow that work and independently come to the same conclusion. No need to "trust" anyone.
[15:24:30] <systemd> ^ 03Peano axioms - Wikipedia
[15:28:39] <Bytram> I can claim that 3+2 is equal to 5; someone else could claim that 3+2 is equal to 8. Based on the foregoing, I could rigorously prove that their claim is false, but I can rigorously prove that my claim is true. They could not substantiate their claim. (Unless we are using something like non-Euclidian geometry -- then it gets *really* interesting!)
[15:47:39] <Bytram> In simple terms: Talk is cheap. Substantiate your claims.
[16:37:55] <Bytram> =cite http://dx.doi.org">DOI: 10.1364/OE.383526
[16:37:56] <systemd> Journal Reference Error: DOI Not Found, <cite></cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/"></a>)
[16:38:05] <Bytram> =cite DOI: 10.1364/OE.383526
[16:38:06] <systemd> Journal Reference Error: DOI Not Found, <cite></cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/"></a>)
[16:38:11] <Bytram> okaaay
[16:38:30] <Bytram> =cite https://phys.org
[16:38:32] <systemd> Journal Reference Long-distance fiber link poised to create powerful networks of optical clocks, <cite></cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/"></a>)
[16:47:16] <Bytram> nap++
[16:47:16] <Bender> karma - nap: 6
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[17:24:05] <janrinok> carny. I have a few questions if you have some time
[17:24:53] <janrinok> Let's assume that the worst case is true. This is a bio-weapon that has been accidentally released and that the governments know this and are not telling us:
[17:25:21] <janrinok> 1. What does knowing this information at this time do to help us?
[17:25:45] <janrinok> 2. How should we change the measures that are being taken to combat the problem that we face?
[17:27:17] <janrinok> 3. What change will this information do to the measures that we are currently taking?
[17:29:17] <janrinok> I'm not arguing with you, but it seems to me that the only thing that this information would change would be the level of concern felt by a large number of people. It would be divisive (how do you think Americans of Chinese extraction will be treated?), and it would do nothing to enhance the logistical problems of manufacture and distribution of protective equipment.
[17:30:40] <janrinok> I think this would be a great thread of comments to follow a CV-19 story although it is not the justification for the story itself. The stories must be based on facts as we know them and not speculation.
[17:41:11] <janrinok> I would like to see the effort concentrated on solving the current problem, and then drill down into exactly what is the original cause of the problem and what can be done to prevent it happening again. I suspect that we are looking at the same problem (and in general agreement) but from the opposite end.
[18:00:24] <Bytram> =decline
[18:00:24] <systemd> Thanks for submitting this story. It appears that no editor has yet selected this story to be run. At least a week has passed since the story was submitted, and if an editor was going to have selected it, they would likely have done so by now. It has, therefore, been removed from the submission queue.
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[18:17:21] -!- mode/#editorial [+v fyngyrz] by Hephaestus
[20:24:32] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencemag.org
[20:25:24] <Bytram> whereto? http://feedproxy.google.com
[20:25:26] <systemd> ^ 03Here's how banks and credit card companies are helping during the coronavirus outbreak ( https://www.cnet.com )
[20:36:37] <AzumaHazuki> are their CEOs committing suicide?
[22:09:59] <Bytram> whereto? https://arstechnica.com
[22:10:00] <systemd> ^ 03How to keep your sanity when you feel like the world is going crazy
[22:10:17] <Bytram> ~arthur https://arstechnica.com
[22:12:59] <Bytram> Oh, no bot. :(
[22:13:04] <Bytram> =submit https://arstechnica.com
[22:13:06] <systemd> Submitting "How to keep your sanity when you feel like the world is going crazy"...
[22:13:28] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03How to Keep Your Sanity When You Feel Like the World is Going Crazy" (37 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:14:48] <Bytram> Fnord666: Heads up... in some countries is it mm/dd and in others dates are dd/mm, so I tend to use; 2020-03-22 so there is no confusion.
[22:22:04] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[22:22:04] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[22:22:04] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[22:22:05] <systemd> ^ 03Cyberattack on HHS Meant to Slow Coronavirus Response, Sources Say: SoylentNews Submission
[22:22:05] <systemd> ^ 03Data surge as more Brits work from home? Not as hard on the network as their nightly Netflix binges,: SoylentNews Submission
[22:22:05] <systemd> ^ 03Coronavirus: Plan to ramp up ventilator production 'unrealistic': SoylentNews Submission