#editorial | Logs for 2020-02-05

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[00:41:55] <Bytram> whereto? http://feedproxy.google.com
[00:41:57] <systemd> ^ 03Citing coronavirus concerns, LG pulls out of MWC 2020 ( https://www.cnet.com )
[00:44:21] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[00:44:22] <systemd> ^ 03Meet the Stratolaunch, the world's largest airplane ( https://www.cnet.com )
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[04:24:59] -!- mode/#editorial [+v SoyGuest29762] by Hephaestus
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[04:26:29] <spiraldancing> Public Service Announcement ...
[04:27:05] <spiraldancing> I am still figuring out how to use IRC efficiently (and it could be weeks before I'm comfortable with it).
[04:27:56] <spiraldancing> Among other things, my various IRC clients keep auto-logging me out, then back in, then expecting me to immediately re-authenticate with NickServ.
[04:28:40] <spiraldancing> *** If I'm not logged in as 'spiraldancing', I'm not actually here, no matter what my IRC client claims...
[04:29:16] <chromas> If you use a bouncer then you can login from multiple places at once with the same nick. There's an official staff once, too
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[06:51:08] <carny> https://www.aljazeera.com
[06:51:09] <systemd> ^ 0310 people on quarantined ship in Japan confirmed with coronavirus
[06:59:53] <carny> https://www.aljazeera.com
[06:59:53] <systemd> ^ 03Hospital workers step up strike after Hong Kong virus death
[07:01:18] <carny> https://www.aljazeera.com
[07:01:19] <systemd> ^ 03China races to build more hospitals as coronavirus outbreak grows
[07:01:28] <carny> > outbreak that has now claimed at least 490 lives on the mainland,
[07:02:04] <carny> it's a good thing china has been putting pressure on foreign news outlets and social media to censor discussion
[07:02:16] <carny> we wouldn't want any scare mongering
[07:51:34] <janrinok> The news outside of China is not being censored. Most of us do not use Chinese media as a prime news source. If you go to the links that I provided both in the stories that I published and on here the other day there is rolling reporting of the coronavirus situation, so I don't think that we have a problem yet.
[07:52:49] <janrinok> But the fact that China _is_ censoring news inside the country is disturbing but not not exactly news.
[07:53:59] <janrinok> The death toll is certainly going to rise significantly over the coming months, but I don't feel that reporting the death count every day is going to help matters or enlighten our community.
[08:14:47] <carny> i have heard from people i trust that facebook and youtube are censoring based on keywords
[08:15:30] <carny> i don't have accounts on either platform so i can't confirm that myself but i am working on getting a copy of a medium.com post that was taken down
[08:16:03] <carny> and of course tiktok is chinese so the videos coming out of there are under chinese government control
[08:51:39] <janrinok> Without evidence - and I'm not saying that it isn't true - the Facebook and Youtube claims cannot be verified. I cannot see why either would choose to censor reporting from China. They might be censoring loads of stuff but that is not pointing at China or related to the coronavirus
[08:53:42] <janrinok> I would hardly refer to tiktok as a valuable or reputable news source. We do not usually accept tiktok videos - or any videos for that matter - as the basis of a story unless there is additional and verifiable reporting to support any claims being made.
[08:56:00] <janrinok> However, anything that you come up with from reputable source that you feel is of significant value can be accepted as submission. That doesn't mean that it will be published, but it will be assessed against the same criteria that all other submissions are subjected to. However, if it _is_ significant it could well be publishable as a story.
[08:57:28] <janrinok> The situation in China is, if today's reporting is to believed, deteriorating much faster than it was. Several countries are now recommending that all their citizens leave China if at all possible.
[09:00:20] <janrinok> Makes me wonder where we would put all the foreign nationals that are currently in China if they all chose to return to their native countries. It is one thing to quarantine several hundred people, but a different matter altogether if it is tens or hundreds of thousands.
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[14:15:45] <Bytram> spiraldancing: Welcome Back!
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[14:16:12] -!- mode/#editorial [+v spiraldancing] by Hephaestus
[14:21:38] <Bytram> whereto? http://feedproxy.google.com
[14:21:39] <systemd> ^ 03Beware Windows 7 users: Malware campaign targeting IoT devices ( https://www.cnet.com )
[15:27:49] <Bytram> I'm debating whether it would be better to give credit for the story to the bot or to the user. My thinking atm, is that the bot should get credit. If we give credit to the user, then there is no incentive to actually submit a story versus letting a bot do it. This would likely upset the stats at, for example: https://soylentnews.org
[15:28:01] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews: Hall of Fame ( https://soylentnews.org )
[15:29:07] <chromas> Putting the nick in the user field makes it easier to pick out in the story list but I can't think of any other benefit
[15:29:34] <systemd> give me all the creditz
[15:30:26] <Bytram> BTW, I have noticed that the stats there exclude editors from the tallies, at least for Most Active Submitters. Most notably, takyon has submitted, wait for it, 5723 stories which exceeds the next two, combined!
[15:32:23] <chromas> Maybe people can only be on one list at a time
[15:35:10] <Bytram> I saw a specific check and exclusion of editors in the tally code for authors, at least. Don't recall what other exclusions, if any, there were.
[15:37:01] <janrinok> My view is that if a story is submitted by a person, whether using a bot or not, the person should get the credit. However, Arthur, will (eventually?) be able to do everything at least for some stories but there is no point in giving Arthur karma.
[15:37:29] <janrinok> ... or am I missing the point?
[15:37:50] <chromas> Well, if Arthur gets karma, you can use it to shitpost :D
[15:38:10] <Bytram> Let's phrase it as a question... what does it mean to you when you see that $user has submitted $number stories?
[15:38:27] <Bytram> Ignore syntax; think semantics.
[15:38:58] <Bytram> I would like to know how many of the site's stories are bot-generated vs community-member-submitted.
[15:39:09] <janrinok> I could, but there is more than one version of Arthur in use. For example, it can be used simply to extract the story but still requires a person to submit it, or it can do the whole thing - but it cannot tell good stories from bad.
[15:39:38] <chromas> Maybe a bot flag could be added to the user table
[15:39:54] <janrinok> that the person has made an effort to give us something to work with that appeals to them.
[15:40:14] <Bytram> If I see, for example, that of 10k stories 8k were posted by bots, I would get a very different perception of how the site is doing versus my seeing 8k out of 10k being submitted by users.
[15:41:21] <janrinok> seeing a user name tells me that at least that person is interested in that story as well as them taking some time to add to the submission queue. But it depends on what you want the data for
[15:41:58] <Bytram> Interesting perspective; is why I asked!
[15:42:23] * Bytram will ponder while he wraps up editing a story he has been working on for far too long.
[15:42:58] <chromas> Do you edit sn stories in vim?
[15:43:05] <janrinok> Takyon subs are always ready to go - almost nothing to do on our part. Some just provide a URL - I still run that URL through Arthur to extract the story. Others are entirely bot generated but we still have to edit them down to Fair Use etc
[15:43:51] <janrinok> I usually use the SN editor - but for some sources I transfer the whole text to a more powerful editor and then transfer it back when it is finished
[15:45:09] <Bytram> Unless i have something solid to work with, I generally prefer to let a bot take a first pass to clean up extraneous attributes in the html and to convert site-relative links to absolute, etc.
[15:45:10] <chromas> You could write an emacs/vi plugin that uses the sn api
[15:45:18] <janrinok> for example, the built in editor has no find/replace and that would be useful for some bot generated stories where they put ;#13 in between paragraphs
[15:45:28] <Bytram> Well, maybe, you could?
[15:45:35] <chromas> no
[15:46:14] <janrinok> ctrl-a, ctrl-c change text window, ctrl-v It couldn't be much simpler
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[15:47:32] <Bytram> But, as always, compare the bot html to the original story. I have seen omissions and wholesale rearrangement of paragraph ordering, as well as picture captions become in-line text/
[15:47:34] <chromas> I dunno. Mediawiki has a FUSE adapter. I think rehash could use one too
[15:48:16] <janrinok> Arthur has the API built in, but it still requires an editor to approve the transmission of a sub. Otherwise it would flood the subs with over 300 stories a day - most of which are crap
[15:49:12] <chromas> Train bogofilter or something to pick out the good ones
[15:49:22] * chromas doesn't know if that'd work at all
[15:49:43] <janrinok> Bytram, the extraction of the story is very complicated as I am sure that you realise. I'm always looking to improve Arthur but it is a lot of work for small gains
[15:50:05] <Bytram> Oh, no complaints here!
[15:50:22] <Bytram> I am quite frankly *amazed* at how well the bots do their "magic"!
[15:50:48] <janrinok> I had hoped to have Arthur 5 out last autumn/fall - but there aren't enough hours in my day
[15:50:53] <Bytram> I have far too much experience scraping data from raw HTML to think what the bots do is easy!
[15:51:17] <Bytram> understood, same here.
[15:51:38] <janrinok> and when you look at how many people abuse HTML/CSS I'm surprised I get as much as I do
[15:52:39] <janrinok> anyway - time for me to go rustle up some food (I'm going to steal nextdoor's cow)
[15:53:26] * janrinok is afk
[16:00:02] <Bytram> chow for now?!
[16:00:45] <Bytram> Indeed! I am utterly amazed at how well your bots are generally able to work with such a multitude of coding styles!!!!
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[16:08:31] <Bytram> break time!
[16:08:52] <Bytram> afk for a few hours
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[17:43:57] <janrinok> chromas, I might try the idea of using a bogofilter to identify good submissions although it would take a while to build up the reference data
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[17:52:01] -!- mode/#editorial [+v spiraldancing] by Hephaestus
[18:12:54] <janrinok> spiraldancing, ping
[18:15:33] <janrinok> ~tell spiraldancing : Have to got ZNC installed on your IRC yet? If not, ask Deucalion to set it up for you. It keeps logging the channels even when you are logged out so that you can see what is discussed while you are away.
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[23:12:04] <Bytram> SoyGuest93386: Hi there! How are you doing today?
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[23:42:54] <RandomFactor> That was impressive, and a bit depressing
[23:50:19] * Bytram looks at alarm clock story
[23:53:15] <Bytram> =cite https://journals.plos.org
[23:53:17] <systemd> Alarm tones, music and their elements: Analysis of reported waking sounds to counteract sleep inertia, <cite>PLOS ONE</cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0215788">10.1371/journal.pone.0215788</a>)
[23:53:22] * Bytram crosses fingers
[23:53:25] <Bytram> YAYS!
[23:53:28] <Bytram> chromas++
[23:53:29] <Bender> karma - chromas: 118