#editorial | Logs for 2017-06-14

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[00:00:39] <cmn32480> I think so....
[00:04:27] <nick> there is no winning with these stories, but i dont really want to go the BBC route of just avoiding anything controversial unless we can create a framing thats so unbiased the only conclusion is to trust those in authority, until they personally admit fault
[00:05:08] <charon_> i don't like stories that look like incitement of a two minutes hate
[00:05:51] <charon_> ivanka trump sells clothes that come from a sweatshop. big surprise, so does EVERY other designer
[00:06:52] <nick> it still comes back to the other designers are not advisors to the president with a platform of manufacturing locally
[00:11:15] <mrpg> hi
[00:11:24] <charon_> hiyo mrpg
[00:12:36] <nick> i don't think we should be treating the trump family like... special snowflakes... who can't be criticised or record kept for their ongoing activities than span the public and private sectors
[00:14:08] <mrpg> Should I use news or science category for the loneliness submission? "Loneliness Contributes to Self-Centeredness for Sake of Self-Preservation"
[00:14:23] <nick> it's not my fight to have, and as i said, my initial reaction was kind of meh... but then we're just normalizing the situation and then ignoring it, which does nothing to change or progress the conversation
[00:14:42] <cmn32480> from the "one-is-the-lonliest-number"
[00:14:44] <cmn32480> dept
[00:14:54] <cmn32480> science
[00:16:05] <mrpg> im going with "solo" :)
[00:17:14] <charon_> nick: my feelings are complex on this. i am no fan of trump or the direction his policies tend towards. but there are dozens, nay hundreds, of political websites that devote 24/7 coverage to inspecting and savaging his every tweet. i don't see why SN should join those ranks
[00:18:48] <nick> we're not talking about every tweet or utterance from the white house, and i certainly don't advocate for that
[00:19:56] <nick> and those websites are dedicated, i'm quite happy to run a trump is awesome story as well as something more negative
[00:20:48] <nick> on those websites, most of the anti-trump stories miss the meat and go for the low hanging fruit, like his poor typing/spelling or body language and other superficial things
[00:20:58] <nick> very little is spent on actual subjects with meat to them
[00:21:31] <nick> the vast majority are personal attacks than only give his base deeper resolve to defend him, rather than tangible ethical concerns that are part of public record
[00:21:38] <charon_> point. a lot of covfefe
[00:23:08] <nick> oh and i almost forgot, all the time and effort trying to connect trump to russia
[00:23:13] <nick> which has gone absolutely fucking nowhere
[00:25:59] <charon_> i guess i feel that without strong pushback by us tastemakers (i.e. editors) SN could very quickly be inundated with slanted politics from both sides. a strongly researched article like the model one you linked earlier is fine by my lights. but breitbart/dailyKos is a slippery slope and all that
[00:26:47] <nick> i completely agree
[00:27:16] <charon_> and even news of the moment sites like Time/WaPo/NYT. i tend to prefer journalism, not news
[00:28:57] <nick> i'm just wary of playing into the hands of general apathy... we have to pick the stories carefully, if we do run them, to actually make them count for anything
[00:36:07] <nick> personally, i find it interesting the general consensus from both supporters and detractors that trump would be held to a different standard than previous politicians... i didn't realise both would hold him to a lower standard
[00:38:38] <nick> for my own benefit, i'd like a stronger US economy, more manufacturing, closer links between the US-UK, those things would be great... but not when the former are building more military equipment, and the latter is giving US healthcare corporations open season in the UK.
[00:44:03] <charon_> i guess we need to ask how many articles critical of the Obama administration did we run?
[00:44:25] <charon_> and see if we're on par for that
[00:47:02] <nick> difficult to compare like that since we wern't around when obama first came into office
[00:47:22] <nick> so we didn't get all the kenyan-communist-muslim type stories
[00:47:33] <charon_> yeah, true
[00:48:08] <nick> and then even doing that is a bit like the BBC 'we must find balance, no matter what'
[00:48:55] <nick> there might be a million people marching on the street against a war... but there is a Lockheed-Martin funded thinktank that is very clear in the dangers we face if we don't
[00:49:00] <nick> both are just as valid
[00:54:30] <nick> there is no simple solution, every story has to be taken on it's own merits... but we're doing a disservice to the community and our own editorial standards if we avoid stories because we subjectively don't 'like' them
[01:01:00] <nick> but i'm one of those weird people who actually pays for journalism and also doesn't have any political affiliation or allegiance
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[02:53:43] * Bytram just finished reading scroll back
[02:55:01] <Bytram> nick: salient observations and comments -- definitely food for thought and consideration -- i don't have any hard-and-fast suggestions atm, but just keeping those ideas in mind is important and helpful...
[02:55:23] <nick> i apologise for my ranting, im supposed to be embracing apathy not rambling on about ethics
[02:55:40] <Bytram> thanks for putting that into words -- I had some thoughts along those lines, but you made things much clearer
[02:55:58] <Bytram> Apathy? Nah. I just ignore it! ;)
[02:56:27] <Bytram> And as for the venting? Good! Consider the alternative...
[02:56:57] <Bytram> this sucks. I think I'll just hold onto these thoughts and stew on them.. until they explode.
[02:57:27] <Bytram> I'm glad you voiced (umm, wrote) your perspectives -- helped clarify my own thinking.
[02:57:40] <Bytram> nick++
[02:57:40] <Bender> karma - nick: 16
[02:59:09] <nick> as ive said before, i like us publishing stories that challenge the community, from any perspective. i am not for or against anything, except for trying to widen perspectives and challenge all preconceptions
[02:59:46] <nick> the news is the news, the information is what it is... it is up to the community to take the high road, or not
[02:59:55] <Bytram> stir the hornets nest on occasion, eh?
[03:01:22] <nick> not quite, i try to keep the stories as neutral/factual as can be, but sometimes the truth or particularly relevant information is uncomfortable
[03:02:13] <Bytram> agreed.
[03:02:30] <Bytram> brb -- dishes
[03:03:07] <Bytram> btw, added 'intrastate' to the inmate calling story's title -- is a very impoirtant distinction in the states.
[03:03:22] <Bytram> yes, it's mentioned in the story, but thot it deserved to be in the headline, too.
[03:03:44] * Bytram may have worked at a company that designed and built prison PBXs
[03:04:52] <Bytram> back...
[03:05:05] <Bytram> and having just noticd the time, think I'm gonna call it a night.
[03:05:11] <Bytram> really enjoyed chatting with ya!
[03:05:17] <nick> good night Bytram
[03:05:19] * nick hat tip
[03:05:33] * Bytram hat tip to you, too!
[03:05:58] <Bytram> cmn32480: and a very pleasant night to you, as well!
[03:06:08] <cmn32480> ~gnight bytram
[03:06:09] * exec sexually fires a shoe of orphaned inodes at bytram
[03:07:14] * Bytram pops back in for just a moment
[03:07:22] <Bytram> the EpiPen story...
[03:07:52] <Bytram> title says something about 'well-deserved backlash' or somesuch. was taken directly from the linked article.
[03:08:29] <Bytram> seems a bit click-baity to me, but it also *seems* apropos, based on the referenced NYT article...
[03:08:46] <Bytram> feel free to change the title at whim... I'm not partial to it in any particular way.
[03:08:52] <Bytram> okay, now this time for sure!
[03:09:01] <Bytram> laters!
[03:10:00] <nick> laters
[03:10:23] <nick> changing it to;EpiPen Maker is Facing Shareholder Backlash
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[10:08:31] -!- mode/#editorial [+v nick] by Hephaestus
[12:00:25] <Bytram> https://arstechnica.co.uk
[12:00:26] <upstart> ^ 03Firefox 54 finally goes multi-process, eight years after work began | Ars Technica UK
[12:02:38] <Bytram> http://www.bbc.co.uk
[12:02:40] <upstart> ^ 03Apple's Tim Cook confirms self-driving car plans - BBC News
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[13:07:32] -!- mode/#editorial [+v nick] by Hephaestus
[15:28:34] <chromas> from the watts-Cookin' dept
[15:30:14] <chromas> Microsoft should make a self-driving car too. Remember the old joke?
[16:05:49] <takyon> i put the shooting story in
[16:07:45] <takyon> ~eds
[16:07:46] <exec> editor ping for takyon: janrinok zz_janrinok n1 nick martyb Bytram cmn32480 coolhand takyon bytram|away Fnord666 charon GreatOutdoors FatPhil Snow goodie mrpg
[16:10:29] <takyon> live in five
[20:32:30] <nick> i assume, if we'd done a story about the london fire last night jmorris wouldn't have been there to say 'lets get all the terrorist speculation out of the way so we can talk about fire safety and building codes'
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[22:37:32] <cmn32480> good guess Kreskin
[22:46:00] <nick> http://metro.co.uk
[22:46:32] <nick> “The view is there are so many homeless people out there undercover operators will remain safe and anonymous.
[22:47:13] <nick> well ive never seen an increase in homeless people being spun as a positive
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