#editorial | Logs for 2017-05-17

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[00:00:44] <n1> if you're logged in on there, go to the stories page at the top menu
[00:01:58] <Xyem> Very colourful!
[00:02:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> n1, i snagged him up as a dev before i even mentioned he wanted to edit. momma didn't raise no fool.
[00:03:09] <Xyem> I shall become a cog in all of the machines, it's the best way to take ove... I mean, help the most.
[00:03:27] <n1> well we always need someone to blame everything on, so that could work out
[00:03:38] <Xyem> .. I didn't consider that. Oops.
[00:03:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~blame
[00:03:44] * exec points at Bytram
[00:03:55] <n1> TheMightyBuzzard, spare capacity is always useful
[00:04:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> true, multiple redundant Bytrams
[00:04:30] <Xyem> RAIB?
[00:05:11] <Xyem> As far as I know, cloning is still expensive though, so perhaps not.
[00:06:32] <n1> since you're all set up already going to keep going in here, so if any other eds decide i missed something then they can inform you
[00:07:08] <Xyem> Sounds good to me.
[00:08:00] <n1> the stories page you see, will be red green and yellow... red means it needs a second look, green is ready to go (probably), yellow is your own story that someone else needs a second look at
[00:09:17] <n1> so in an ideal world, they would all be green... the policy is one editor picks a story from the submissions queue, and then before it goes to the main page, another editor will check it over and give the final sign off... but it will go live, even without a 2nd edit.
[00:09:51] <Xyem> Makes sense. What are the grey ones? One's not looked at at all?
[00:10:17] <n1> the grey ones have been set so they wont go live
[00:10:37] <n1> work in progress perhaps, site announcements
[00:11:36] <n1> the queue is in GMT/UTC, on the actual site the list is clearly split into different days, a bit easier on the eye.
[00:13:27] <Xyem> Okay.
[00:13:28] <n1> in a perfect world, you want to see that page all green, with 12 hours of stories set to be released in the future... stories are spaced around 90 minutes usually
[00:14:05] <n1> open the submissions page in a new tab
[00:14:57] <Xyem> Done.
[00:16:14] <n1> here you can look at all the submissions, in date order.
[00:16:26] <n1> i'll submit something for you to look at
[00:17:09] <n1> actually, you can use the spacex sub for now
[00:18:24] <n1> if a story has a note, click the button and read it before going ahead... it's generally how we discuss a story we have doubts about or needs extensive work before publishing
[00:18:52] <n1> so if you've gone to the space x story, you'll see where notes would be, and you can preview the submission
[00:19:38] <Xyem> Notes are in the "Editor's Notes" section?
[00:20:10] <n1> yeah, so you can write something there, and if you hit the update button
[00:20:23] <n1> it will then show up in the subs queue
[00:20:33] <n1> but you wont have moved the story or done anything else to it
[00:21:13] <Xyem> Ah I see
[00:21:33] <n1> below that, you can see the option to delete/reject a submission... if it's a registered user submitting a story it's polite to give them a message to say why. we generally don't delete stories without discussing or leaving a note first, 2nd opinion
[00:21:48] <Xyem> Hm, "View Note" doesn't work (javascript, I presume).
[00:22:37] <charon_> if you ever worry about not having n1 around to explain the editing interface to you, this Wiki page has a more or less accurate step-by-step guide to editing a story. beware, it is dull and will only make sense after you already know everything in it.
[00:22:45] <charon_> https://wiki.soylentnews.org
[00:23:03] <Xyem> n1: Of course, reasons for doing things are good.
[00:23:14] <n1> i dont see a note you made, unless i just overwrote it... but i put one there now on the space x story you might be able to see
[00:23:21] <n1> charon_, i forget that exists
[00:23:41] <charon_> i actually made some updates to it to make it slightly less misleading
[00:23:43] <n1> i'm still very much doing things exactly the same as i did 2 years ago or however long it's been lol
[00:24:21] <Xyem> I see it, so you did overwrite it.
[00:24:27] * Xyem adds that to list of things to improve
[00:24:37] <n1> i couldn't tell you how long it's been since i read any of the editing guidelines or whatever
[00:24:49] <charon_> me neither. it's all internalized
[00:24:55] <n1> so ideally you wouldn't overwrite a comment, but it's unlikely two people do it at the same time
[00:25:06] <charon_> race condition for the win
[00:25:15] <Xyem> Already have something in mind to prevent it :)
[00:25:35] <n1> the preview button will then bring up the actual editing page
[00:26:01] <Xyem> Hopefully, I can make it append your comment if it gets edited between you opening it and submitting it.
[00:27:32] <Xyem> I'm on the editing page now.
[00:28:15] <n1> everything is fairly self explanatory there... the nexus/topic thing is the weird part
[00:29:01] <n1> click the + nd a menu opens and you can then select a nexus and topic(s) for the story by one click and then add button
[00:29:34] <n1> the x above the + deletes them from the story
[00:29:50] <charon_> oh hell, that wiki page makes no mention of the topic selector sub-window
[00:29:57] <Xyem> Only if you have javascript enabled :)
[00:30:17] <n1> lol
[00:30:20] <charon_> oh wait, yeah it does. crisis averted
[00:31:33] <n1> as far as i'm aware now, the order of the topics and nexuses in the box doesn't matter anymore... charon_ ?
[00:31:43] <charon_> correct, it does not
[00:32:58] <n1> good to know
[00:34:23] <n1> the most important thing with that is the politics nexus, discretion is needed on politics to decide if a story should run at all, or if it's just flamebait or partisan trolling for example
[00:34:48] <n1> otherwise just have it with the main page nexus and a couple relevant topics
[00:35:49] <charon_> and the occasional Meta nexus story which is news about the site itself
[00:36:08] <n1> but generally you wouldn't get those in the subs queue
[00:36:18] * Xyem nods
[00:36:29] <charon_> true, NC freehands his subs right into the main page
[00:36:50] <n1> read the wiki for the headline style guide... if you can think of a better/more informative headline, change it
[00:37:59] <n1> it's one of those things for me, i hate a bad headline... i want to know what the story is about before i read it
[00:39:12] <Xyem> Fair enough :)
[00:40:09] <charon_> i changed one earlier today that was a click-baity "This Fly's incredible hearing is awesome"
[00:41:15] <Xyem> 4/10. Should be "Tiny insects new ability will BLOW YOUR MIND".
[00:41:35] <n1> if you've been on the site for any length of time, there's the dept title where you can be creative
[00:42:09] <n1> sometimes it's the part of editing that takes the most time, if you want it to
[00:42:11] <charon_> xyem: yes, you've got it!
[00:43:38] <n1> for some reason we still have the option to change the author of the story, if you wanted to blame Bytram i guess.
[00:44:41] <charon_> important to note that this usage of "author" means the editor who posts the story
[00:45:51] <n1> yup, which is why only a few names appear in the list of options... people who have/had privs at some point or another
[00:46:35] <n1> so both author and comment status there's no reason to ever change
[00:47:56] <n1> release date, is where it will appear in the stories queue... so like i said before... story spacing 90mins, add your story to the end of the queue, unless it's particularly time sensitive/breaking news
[00:48:12] <Xyem> Understood.
[00:48:22] <n1> should be discussed in here, if a story completely jumps the queue for whatever reason.
[00:48:36] <n1> time must be set in GMT/UTC
[00:49:09] <Xyem> Do the other "non-breaking" stories get moved along to keep the 90 minutes spacing, or is it aimed to be 90 minutes plus the extra breaking ones?
[00:49:34] <n1> if you put an invalid time/date and save the story, it disappears to the back of the queue in 1970 something
[00:49:56] <n1> probably best to swap a story out, if it's breaking news
[00:50:17] <n1> so whatever story taking out, just move it to the end of the queue
[00:50:42] <Xyem> Okay.
[00:50:55] <n1> it's good to try and keep the topics diverse... doesn't always happen, but you don't want a bunch of heavy science, or politics, or whatever in a row
[00:51:25] <charon_> we try to limit politics to one story per day
[00:51:41] <charon_> because half the time the comments turn into arguments
[00:51:49] <n1> depends on how subjective you take politics though, but anything that
[00:52:02] <n1> is likely to create a lot of arguments, keep them spaced
[00:56:17] <n1> also as you'll see below the headline... the site will tell you if you're looking at the same story as someone else, another occasion to check in here if someone else is working on it, or just taking a look
[00:56:35] <Xyem> Ah I see, cool.
[00:57:31] <n1> sometimes it will say you are, when not, but it will show you the headline of the other story, which just has a few similar words or links
[00:58:16] <n1> and the similar stories is what it is... it's the quick way of checking if it's a dupe, but it's not perfect... dupes do happen
[00:58:28] <n1> unless you happen to remember every story we've ever done, it's pretty hard not to
[01:00:35] <n1> if it shows up a story that's related, previous coverage of the same story, then it's good to link it in the summary
[01:01:35] <n1> we only update a summary after going live for broken links or spelling mistakes, unless it's a breaking news story we won't add anything after it's gone live.... and then it would be noted as an update
[01:03:37] <Xyem> Of course.
[01:04:23] <n1> so now, if you've set the headline, topics, dept., and time a some hours in the in the future.... uncheck the display box next to the preview button and click save
[01:08:02] <n1> the stories list on the right shows you the queue... but for reasons beyond my comprehension it doesn't always show you the whole queue relevant to you... if you start to edit a story, it will select a time close to the present and that list displays stories near that time, but perhaps not the last story ready to go live
[01:08:34] <n1> so it's always best to refer to the actual stories page for your timings
[01:08:54] <n1> on dev it doesn't matter as there's no stories in the queue pending
[01:10:34] <n1> once you save a submission it will take you to the stories page, do not refresh that page if you just updated or accepted a submission
[01:10:37] <Xyem> Okay, must remember Javascript needs to be on to do this..
[01:11:15] <charon_> i always set the time and preview instead of saving. then when it is previewed, you can see where it will fall in the timing queue sidebar
[01:11:35] <charon_> many many times i have caught a timing error that way
[01:12:04] <n1> yeah once you do that, you should be able to see if it's at the end of the queue
[01:12:30] <n1> referencing the stories page means you only have to do that step once... it depends how many stories are in the queue
[01:13:24] <n1> if the story you're working on is at the end of the queue, it will be top of that list
[01:14:05] <Xyem> The one I edited is yellow now and at the top of the page.
[01:14:26] <n1> you didn't uncheck the display box, if you did it would be grey
[01:15:07] <n1> the important thing is never refresh the stories page when you've just saved/updated a story.
[01:15:37] <Xyem> So the display checkbox is for after you have checked a yellow one?
[01:16:49] <n1> the checkbox is should be selected when you're ready for another editor to give the story a second look... it will be default be ready, usually you'd only uncheck it for a big story you weren't going to finish right away
[01:17:04] <n1> but now, if that time comes... the story wont actually go public
[01:17:14] <n1> if it was yellow then it would go live, when the release time hits
[01:20:21] <Xyem> Ah, so the second editor check is optional?
[01:21:08] <n1> it's not optional, but it is not required for the story to go live... our policy is to have every story second checked, but sometimes it's not possible due to editor availability
[01:22:18] <n1> and for a meta story, multiple people may work on it, but it might not be ready to go live... so it would be set to not display just to be sure the release time didn't sneak up on it before it was ready
[01:22:31] <Xyem> I see.
[01:23:14] <n1> it's always good to have a second set of eyes on a story, so while it doesn't actually prevent it from going live... later, if you see there are stories in the queue that are red, you can take a look at them
[01:23:36] <n1> if you then save them -- even if you don't change anything -- they'll go green to say it's been 2nd edited
[01:23:45] <Xyem> Ah I see.
[01:24:03] <n1> you can edit a story yourself as many times as you want, but it will only go green if someone else saves it too
[01:24:12] <Xyem> Got it :)
[01:24:47] <n1> so now you can go back into the story, and it will show you first what it looks like as you've already seen... if you save a story, quickly edit it and then save again
[01:25:12] <n1> what is shows you when you first click on it in the stories list, may not be updated yet, cache hasn't refreshed
[01:25:20] <n1> to see the latest version you must edit the story
[01:26:53] <Xyem> So the second save triggers a cache refresh but the first doesn't?
[01:27:29] <n1> what you would normally do, after setting a headline, dept, time and topics is hit preview not save
[01:28:10] <n1> but just if you happen to edit a story, realize you missed something and jump back in it quickly, on that second edit... when you go back into the story in the queue, it might not show you the edit you just made for a couple minutes
[01:28:40] <Xyem> Okay.
[01:29:06] <n1> but if you go to edit it for a third time, it will.... but yeah, normally you'd just hit preview.
[01:29:52] <n1> so you can see your new headline and dept in the preview now, above the editing menus
[01:30:22] <n1> in the dept you can leave out the -'s and it will add them for you, something that i didnt know for a long time
[01:30:31] <charon_> ditto
[01:31:06] <Xyem> Heh, the first thing I tried was omitting them to see what it would do..
[01:32:01] <Xyem> A hint that I'm a tester right there :)
[01:32:28] <n1> it's not so bad now, in the old days we tried not to break the site, just in case it fell over... but these days the devs have done enough work everything is somewhat understood
[01:34:58] <n1> last couple things before the summary itself... the extended copy box is text that will appear once someone views the story, but it wont show up on the main page
[01:35:20] <n1> so if it's a lengthy summary, more than 3 or 4 normal paragraphs, some of it would end up in there
[01:35:34] <n1> the media box is just there for decoration or something
[01:36:18] <n1> we also don't use the upload image or body text options
[01:36:24] <charon_> non-operative as far as i can tell. i've messed around with it and can't get anything to change
[01:36:46] <n1> decoration
[01:37:29] <charon_> and while you *can* put pictures in the summary, it is discouraged. videos cannot be embedded
[01:38:07] <n1> the fast forward box, next to the time/date will move a story up the queue to 'now' ... so if there was a breaking news event a few hours ago, and there was updates to it, we would fast-forward it. but very rare
[01:38:41] <n1> charon_, you can but you should not... if someone puts images in the summaries, there will be unpaid overtime as a consequence.
[01:38:56] <charon_> discouraged, i say
[01:39:19] <charon_> unless you're the boss, that is
[01:39:21] <Xyem> I'm getting a nice list of dev things to do from this discussion :)
[01:39:44] <n1> charon_, well yeah, but you know.. rules broken, exceptions that prove them.
[01:40:21] <charon_> in case it's unclear, images are almost never in the page. not because we can't but because we choose not to
[01:40:34] * Xyem nods
[01:41:20] <n1> charon_, you want to play 'what's wrong with this summary' with Xyem? ... i should make dinner.
[01:42:09] <Xyem> Could we play tomorrow? It rolls on 3am here and I intend on learning lisp "tomorrow" :)
[01:42:49] <n1> sounds like a plan...
[01:43:33] <n1> it's not that often we get volunteers, try and snare you while we got you ;)
[01:43:33] <charon_> yay tomorrow!
[01:43:59] <charon_> i will dump a few summaries into dev to look at tomorrow
[01:44:09] <Xyem> Sounds good, thanks.
[01:44:13] <n1> charon++
[01:44:13] <Bender> karma - charon: 27
[01:44:17] <n1> Xyem++
[01:44:17] <Bender> karma - xyem: 1
[01:44:50] <n1> thanks for volunteering, Xyem... it is most appreciated by everyone here!
[01:45:01] * Xyem takes a screenshot of the occasion of getting his first karma
[01:45:05] <Xyem> I'm not sentimental.. shush.
[01:45:40] <n1> teamwork++
[01:45:40] <Bender> karma - teamwork: 137
[01:47:35] <charon_> lol
[01:49:22] <charon_> n1++
[01:49:22] <Bender> karma - n1: 35
[01:50:15] <n1> more karma than i thought, too much good behaviour
[01:50:49] <charon_> i can mark you down if you like
[01:51:05] <Xyem> Right, heading off to bed, leaving a karma trail in my wake. Speak to you tomorrow, good night!
[01:51:07] <Xyem> n1++
[01:51:07] <Bender> karma - n1: 36
[01:51:27] <charon_> cheers Xyem
[01:51:28] <Xyem> charon++
[01:51:28] <Bender> karma - charon: 28
[01:51:32] <Xyem> Bender++
[01:51:32] <Bender> karma - bender: 1
[01:51:55] <n1> good night Xyem
[01:51:58] * n1 hat tip
[01:53:55] <charon_> uh... did i just never notice this before? i am submitting stories in other people's names...
[01:54:41] <charon_> and it shows that name. not mine. which is what i wanted but not sure it's what the site wants
[01:55:20] <n1> it doesn't seem to check it against the user list
[01:55:35] <n1> so you can write whatever you want
[01:55:46] <n1> not an ideal situation really
[01:57:24] <charon_> yeah
[01:58:12] <charon_> anyway, leaving work. catch you later on
[01:58:17] -!- charon_ has quit []
[03:23:22] <Fnord666> n1 - new editor?
[03:23:42] <Fnord666> ~msg Bytram Thanks!
[03:25:09] <Fnord666> And howdy editorial!
[03:25:43] <n1> Fnord666, that's the rumour going around town
[03:27:03] <Fnord666> Now if we can upgrade the submissions...
[03:27:10] <Fnord666> So now've you been?
[03:27:17] <Fnord666> s/now/how/
[03:27:19] <exec> <Fnord666> So how've you been?
[03:28:06] <Fnord666> Thanks for correcting the evolutionary error on that one story.
[03:28:41] <n1> ?
[03:28:55] <n1> im good thanks, how about you?
[03:29:12] <Fnord666> evolutionary error = missing link. :)
[03:29:22] <Fnord666> Doing well thank you,.
[03:29:24] <n1> ah, ok lol
[03:29:48] <Fnord666> busy as a one armed paper hanger, but other than that...
[03:29:54] <Bytram> Fnord666: you're welcome
[03:30:05] <Bytram> n1: hat tip
[03:30:21] <n1> ~blame
[03:30:22] * exec points at Bytram
[03:30:25] * n1 hat tip
[03:30:42] <Bytram> lol
[03:31:03] <Fnord666> Bytram - how have you been?
[03:31:32] * Bytram had a work trip today -- was treated to a large itialian dinner by my bos -- got home and went straight to bed and only woke up a short while ago
[03:31:35] <Bytram> freefood++
[03:31:35] <Bender> karma - freefood: 1
[03:31:44] <Fnord666> nice
[03:32:14] * Bytram is NOT complaining!
[03:32:23] <n1> i just stumbled across something to do with that '29 dead coalminers' story we've covered a couple times... 'To claim his innocence, during the one year he spent in prison, Blankenship also self-published a book titled, "An American Political Prisoner."'
[03:32:50] <n1> Bytram, sounds like a good day
[03:32:53] <Fnord666> Apparently it's everyone else's fault.
[03:33:08] <Bytram> Fnord666++ I didntdunuffin
[03:33:08] <Bender> karma - fnord666: 14
[03:33:24] <Fnord666> Free food, a nap, what more could you ask for?
[03:33:43] <Fnord666> don't answer that...
[03:33:57] <Bytram> ws about a 90 minute trip each way, so had a nice chance to bond a bit with a coworker and my manager (who came into my dept a few months ago)
[03:34:41] <Bytram> I've been short on sleep for quite a stretch now, so I obviously needed to do some catching up
[03:35:46] <Bytram> Well.... one of my coworkers has blue eyes I could fall into and hang around for ever =) but for, umm, other reasons, would be a BAD idea
[03:35:47] <Fnord666> Sounds like a productive day then
[03:35:53] <Bytram> 'zactly
[03:37:24] * Bytram tries to catch up on backscroll in 12 channels
[03:37:36] <Fnord666> there goes your nap
[03:39:42] <Bytram> well, am pretty well caught up except for *THIS* channel -- what a chatty bunch we've had today...
[03:44:41] <n1> mostly me just ranting about bad submissions, and showing the new ed around
[03:45:20] * Bytram is STILL reading backscroll in #editorial
[03:50:32] * Bytram note to self -- clarify confusion on appearance of story: on disk, on main page, and in preview of story editor
[03:51:03] <Fnord666> n1 - any plan to clean house in the sub queue anytime soon?
[03:52:13] <n1> trimmed a few earlier, the cupboard is pretty bare
[03:53:28] <Bytram> whew! or should that be whooooosh! Finally caught up to the present
[03:54:12] <Bytram> saw what might be some confusion as to how the site caches stories.
[03:54:12] <Fnord666> Starting to feel like old mother hubbard's place.
[03:54:16] <Bytram> lol
[03:55:11] <n1> yeah, i didn't explain it very well, also wasn't sure if anything changed
[03:55:59] <n1> i'm quite bad, i generally don't pay attention to changes and do everything the same way from day 1
[03:56:04] <Bytram> Whe I load the main page, https://soylentnews.org, there is a bunch of stuff that is created on the fly (custom to my nick and/or to an AC), and there is other stuff that is regenerated periodically -- a performance improvement so that it does not have to be recalculated for every single visitor to the site every single time.
[03:56:26] <Bytram> ISTR that being every minue or two for the refreshing of that cached material
[03:56:57] <Bytram> same kind of thing happens when I go in to view a particular story... some bits are on the fly every time, other bits are calculated occasionally
[03:57:45] <Bytram> that said, when I go into the story *editor* -- what I see is loaded straight from the DB and is the most up-to-date version of the story...
[03:58:06] <n1> that's what i was trying to explain, badly
[03:58:31] <Bytram> the preview I see at the top *is* what will be on the main page / story view once the timer pings and a new cached copy is created.
[03:58:52] <n1> but Xyem seems like he'll be fine figuring it all out, wanting to work on dev also i believe
[03:59:22] <Bytram> np. it IS confusing and is only because of all the re-visits to my mental model of what was going on that I was finally able to figure out what was happening
[03:59:43] <Bytram> yep, I saw a ready willingness to help out
[03:59:44] <Fnord666> Guess it's time to change it then.
[04:00:04] <Bytram> wasn't clear as I was skimming quickly, but Ihope that practice session was on dev. right?
[04:00:12] <Fnord666> change how it works I mean since someone figured it out.
[04:00:28] <Bytram> oh, I'm quite capable of doing that... =)
[04:00:31] <Bytram> ~blame
[04:00:32] * exec points at Bytram
[04:00:40] <Fnord666> lol
[04:00:58] <Bytram> on the fly, in real time, too. =)
[04:01:21] <n1> Bytram, indeed
[04:01:28] <Bytram> it's strange to me that tmb seemingly despises the template editor -- I find it intuitive and kinda fun.
[04:01:31] <n1> my once a year trip to dev
[04:01:49] <Bytram> bring a flashlight.. and a towel, of course.
[04:02:47] <Bytram> oh, and FYI, I purged a half-dozen or so stories from the submissions queue a couple days ago
[04:03:18] <Bytram> and...
[04:03:31] <Bytram> now that I'm caught up to the current state of the world...
[04:05:12] <Bytram> Fnord666: charon: n1: CoolHand: You guys are the best! I've been snowed under between work and other outside stuff, and was absolutely *thrilled* to take a quick peak and see that you were keeping the story queue filled -- was a big load off my mind! THANKS!
[04:05:27] <Bytram> break time
[04:05:28] <Bytram> afk
[04:07:34] <Fnord666> Time for me to head off to the land of nod.
[04:07:46] <Fnord666> Good night Bytram n1
[04:08:28] * n1 hat tip
[04:08:31] <n1> g'night Fnord666
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[04:12:28] -!- mode/#editorial [+v n1] by Hephaestus
[04:13:58] <Bytram> ~gnight Fnord666
[04:14:00] * exec irresponsibly offers a zip archive of beef stock to Fnord666
[04:52:42] <Bytram> that's it for me... time to hit the sack.
[04:52:49] <Bytram> have a good night everyone!
[11:40:01] <Bytram> I'm updating trump classified release story
[11:40:44] <Bytram> brb laundry
[11:44:22] <Xyem> Turns out, I don't have to learn lisp after all.
[11:44:40] * Xyem is relieved
[11:51:17] <Bytram> Lisp isn't THAT bad... once you understand recursion. =)
[11:52:03] <Bytram> trump story updated -- added ars technica reference and tweets
[11:52:22] <Bytram> Xyem: I see you've volunteered to help out round here... welcome aboard!
[11:58:32] <Xyem> Thanks :)
[11:59:27] <Bytram> looks like you had some hands-on training, and are getting up to speed... yay!
[11:59:51] <Xyem> I don't have anything against lisp. Just not fond of learning something I will only use once while in the middle of learning a bunch of things :)
[12:00:45] <Bytram> From what I saw they covered most of what you'll need to deal with, but I'd add one thing (based on hard-won experience)... it's a good idea to get in the habit of clicking the 'Preview' button after you *think* you're done... don't just click 'Update', give it one more preview.
[12:01:29] <Xyem> I will keep that in mind.
[12:02:05] <Bytram> Just last night, I did that and saved a story from going into never-never land (had a malformed release date/time). Then check the exerpted story queue on the RHS, to verify it appeared where it expected.
[12:02:58] <Bytram> if you ever see a date/time stamp in that RHS queue of "1970-01-01" or somerthing like that, it means your release date/time has something wrong with it.
[12:04:13] <Xyem> I've written up a list of things to look into dev-side from the training. That is one of them.
[12:04:22] <Bytram> and, it should go without saying, but if you ever have any questions, feel free to check in with the gang here. We've got a really good group who remember their own learning pains and are more than willing to help.
[12:04:35] * Xyem nods
[12:04:39] <Bytram> nice
[12:04:39] <Xyem> Already noticed that :)
[12:05:24] <Bytram> thing is, there are times when we *do* want to 'deep 6' a story, so we do not want to entirely prevent seemingly non-sensical dates, either.
[12:06:03] <Xyem> Heh, no unneccersary limits.
[12:06:17] <Xyem> Heh, no unnecerssary limits.
[12:06:27] <Bytram> and... totally unrelatd to editing, but we have some helpful 'bots' in this channel (and many others). For example:
[12:06:28] <Xyem> I will type that correctly at some point..
[12:06:32] <Bytram> ~weather boston
[12:06:35] <exec> 10Boston, MA, USA - currently 68°F, partly cloudy, wind S at 8 mph, humidity 53% - Wednesday partly cloudy (70°F:86°F), Thursday mostly sunny (70°F:92°F), Friday partly cloudy (49°F:80°F), Saturday sunny (47°F:62°F)
[12:06:38] <Xyem> unnecessary*
[12:07:09] <Xyem> Clearly, IRC needs a preview button too :)
[12:07:38] <Bytram> Xyem: had a friend in high school, he'd double all the middle consonants and then go back and cross off the extra 'c' -- that was how he learned how to spell unnecessary.
[12:08:04] <Bytram> nah, half the fun here is the intentionally mispeeled words
[12:09:00] <Xyem> I donut no whut yew marine?
[12:09:22] <Bytram> ewe wheel dew jest feign hear
[12:09:59] <Bytram> sadly, 'tis time for me to prepare to head out into the working world.
[12:10:52] <Bytram> Eye except aisle cheque inn bee four eye leaf four gut
[12:11:00] <Bytram> afk
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[16:14:31] -!- mode/#editorial [+v n1] by Hephaestus
[16:50:24] <Xyem> I should be fine to play Spot the Submission Slip-up whenever.
[16:56:33] <n1> hey there Xyem
[16:57:44] <Xyem> Afternoon. How are you?
[17:05:21] <n1> i'm good thanks, well rested for a change
[17:05:25] <n1> how about yourself?
[17:13:49] <Xyem> I'm alright thanks. Hoping that a process I left running at work completes tonight without issue but.. I doubt it.
[17:16:23] <n1> ah well, if it doesn't... keeps you in a job for longer :p
[17:17:06] <Xyem> Not my job, not my department, not even my division!
[17:17:30] <Xyem> Company I work for bought another one that was about to go bump and they are being transferred to our systems.
[17:18:23] <n1> oh that's always fun... lots of cans of worms can be opened
[17:18:59] <Xyem> Despite the companies IT department being all high-and-mighty, it has (once again) come down to me to actually get the job done :P
[17:19:06] <Xyem> company's*
[17:22:32] <n1> i'm sure a few people have been put out of place by their domains being taken over by your company
[17:23:41] <Xyem> Not sure what you mean..
[17:23:47] <n1> i've seen it happen before, a company is merged/taken over, and there's always some guy in a dept somewhere who will refuse to go along with anything, and while the rest of the company integrates, they will be determined to continue on as they always have done and ignore the merge
[17:23:56] <Xyem> Either way, even more people know I am useful to have around, which is always good!
[17:24:25] <Xyem> Oh, I mean the IT department for my company. They constantly tell me that they are great. They are not :)
[17:24:37] <n1> ahh
[17:24:38] <n1> lol
[17:25:51] <n1> it is always good to be the MVP or close to it, in your company or department
[17:27:01] <Xyem> It saved me through every round of redundancies in the past 10 years, even though I've never had a properly defined job, so I must be doing something right!
[17:28:13] <n1> damn right... it's actually the best situation to be in, too valuable to be narrowly defined in a regular position
[17:28:43] <n1> when i had a regular job, that's what i aimed for
[17:33:52] <Xyem> Indeed. Don't have feathers for your hat, have a hat for your feathers.
[17:36:26] <n1> if you plan on hanging around for the evening, we'll get back to the editorial 'training' a bit later... right now the stories queue on the main site is almost run out, and i'm heading out shortly to investigate my local equivalent of a cash-n-carry
[17:38:06] <Xyem> I'm usually around at least 18:00-23:00 UTC weekdays.
[17:39:15] <n1> great, although we technically have UTC/GMT based editors (including myself) it's not actually the case right now.
[17:39:59] <n1> as you may (or not) have guessed, i'm from the UK... but i'm not located there right now, i've been in north and south america the last few months
[17:44:00] <Xyem> Cool :)
[17:46:54] <n1> not the most reliable editor here by a long way, like some of the other staff here my life is rather erratic... but it appears i've been an editor here for 3 years now... we're an odd cast of characters
[17:51:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> Xyem, i've got something you can do if you're just bored and wanting to cut your teeth
[17:51:39] <Xyem> What's that?
[17:52:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> right now stripe payments go through peachy keen on even dollar amounts but our code (pre-sending of the value) borks on change.
[17:53:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> bug is likely somewhere in plugins/Subscribe/Subscribe.pm and needs some creative use of sprintf to fix
[17:53:41] <Xyem> Alright, I'll have a look.
[17:56:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, no, i lied. it's in subscribe.pl in the stripe sub.
[17:59:16] <Xyem> When you say "even dollars", do you mean whole dollars?
[17:59:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar
[17:59:30] <Xyem> So whole dollars is fine but it does X when it is fractional dollars.
[18:00:00] <Xyem> What is the "X" behaviour? Submitting the wrong value, crashing the server, delivering pizza without cheese?
[18:00:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> right, try it on dev with 4242 4242 4242 4242 as a cc# and 123 as the cvc
[18:00:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'a test number and dev is set up to use their test server.
[18:00:41] <Xyem> Ah, cool.
[18:00:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> then tail the error log to see what happens when it gives you a 500
[18:01:50] <Xyem> What is the expiry date for the test card?
[18:01:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> anything in the future
[18:02:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://stripe.com <--- docs on stripe checkout. they expect their values in cents rather than dollars.
[18:09:36] <Xyem> Hm.. $31.25 works correctly.
[18:09:56] <Xyem> What value is seeing an error?
[18:10:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh. i dunno, something Bytram tried the other day.
[18:11:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, calling it something funky bytram did until he can figure out how to reproduce it.
[18:11:11] <chromas> You're just not breaking it the right way
[18:12:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> bingo, found one bug. fractional cents.
[18:12:52] <Xyem> Yeah, that's what I did.
[18:13:37] <Xyem> Oh, perhaps not. £31.2556 works too. Is it only not working when it is, say, $30.0025?
[18:13:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> possibly because i tried bitcoin?
[18:14:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> all you do for that is fill out the email address, hit the bitcoin button, and wait.
[18:17:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, it's ANY change with bitcoin
[18:17:50] <Xyem> Okay, I'll see if I can find it.
[18:17:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> so it's a bug in their code that we need to work around.
[18:18:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause the code on our end is the same whether the user picks cc or bitcoin and cc works with change.
[18:19:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> zero the jingly money in subscribe.pl would be my first idea
[18:20:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> here, let's move this over to #dev so we don't clutter things up any more for the edity folks
[18:21:02] <chromas> Round it up to the nearest coin ;)
[18:27:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> nearest fiddy bucks
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[20:14:38] -!- mode/#editorial [+v charon_] by Hephaestus
[20:17:23] <charon_> hiyo #editorial
[20:31:54] <Xyem> Evening charon
[20:36:19] <charon_> already fixing bugs, i see. thank you!
[20:36:28] <charon_> Xyem++
[20:36:28] <Bender> karma - xyem: 2
[20:37:32] <charon_> if you want to continue doing some editing practice, i have some subs on dev set up for you to take a look at.
[20:38:49] <Xyem> Sure thing :)
[20:40:18] <charon_> the last 4 in the submissions page are taken directly from actual subs in the last few days on the prod server. so you can get a rough feel for the way they can be constructed depending on how careful the submitter is
[20:41:07] <Xyem> From the beads story down?
[20:41:18] <charon_> yes
[20:41:46] <charon_> also there are a couple bots that submit an article when given a link. one of them gives only a single sentence. one of them dumps the entire article. the variance is wide
[20:43:40] <charon_> and then there's the one you're in now which is a bunch of links and no connective tissue
[20:54:16] <Xyem> I'd imagine they are the most difficult ones.
[20:54:48] <charon_> yeah.
[20:55:32] <charon_> for that one, i arbitrarily picked one, got a quote from it, and arrayed the other links after.
[20:56:16] <charon_> but it's most important that you follow each link to be sure it points when it ought to
[20:56:26] <Xyem> Sure, that makes sense.
[20:56:27] <charon_> where, that is
[20:59:40] <charon_> and if a quote is included, make sure it is correct and that not too much is elided. there is one contributor who is notorious for sending quotes that have lots of elipses and bolding for his own emphasis. that sort of thing should be looked at very carefully
[21:00:41] <Xyem> Noted :)
[21:00:59] <charon_> this may seem obvious, but we strive for accuracy to the source material
[21:02:30] <charon_> if a submission is substantially written by the submitter, i try to take a very light hand on editing. spelling, capitalization, HTML formatting, very occasional word changes for clarity
[21:05:47] <Xyem> Sounds reasonable to me.
[21:09:07] <charon_> so if you want to post those with the Display box unchecked, and i'll take a look at them and grade you accordingly. no pressure or anything, but failure means defenestration
[21:37:29] <n1> charon++
[21:37:30] <Bender> karma - charon: 29
[21:39:12] <charon_> now we see how this site works. threats of bodily harm are upvoted
[21:46:06] <charon_> hhmm, wonder if i merge two worthless political stories, can i delete the merged story?
[21:46:35] <Xyem> Okay, I think I've finished making a mess of that.
[21:46:45] <n1> charon_, you can
[21:49:27] <charon_> xyem: first two look good, they were softballs that were well constructed by their submitters
[21:51:19] <charon_> on the bead one, the summarization is good. you took out a footnote though.
[21:52:06] <charon_> after "analysis" in the first graph
[21:53:00] <n1> note on the bead story... should be [...] and also, try and keep it on a line with some text, otherwise it's harder to read and wasted space
[21:53:55] <Xyem> Ah, so footnotes should be retained?
[21:54:07] <n1> if cutting a paragraph short, you can put it at the end of that one, or if you're just skipping paragraphs put it at the start of the next paragraph you are using.
[21:54:18] <Xyem> Okay.
[21:55:10] <charon_> on that story, i kept the <sup>1</sup> but took out the link. then placed the text of the footnote at the bottom of the story with a "[1]" to show where it belonged
[21:55:25] <Xyem> To me, having it at the start makes it look like some was cut off from the start of the paragraph, having it between shows the paragraphs are complete.
[21:55:30] <charon_> https://soylentnews.org
[21:55:38] <n1> if there are footnotes or links in a block quotes, they should be retained where possible
[21:55:44] * Xyem nods
[21:55:46] <Xyem> Will do.
[21:57:00] <n1> Xyem, i understand where you're coming from there, but you end up with 3 lines of no information, which isn't very useful... if the quotes are chosen appropriately, it should read fine and [...] just blanket covers any bits removed
[21:58:05] <n1> say we did that with a gewg_ submission, it would be 50% empty for all the bits he cuts out
[21:58:14] <charon_> lol
[21:58:18] <Xyem> Heh, yeah, I get it.
[21:59:04] <charon_> i gave you a tame OO_ story. someday you shall see him in his full splendour
[21:59:53] <charon_> the sessions one is well done. good job on finding a link to the memo
[22:00:12] <n1> adn then you will suffer gewg_'s wrath for any adjustments you make
[22:00:16] <n1> and*
[22:00:41] <Xyem> Sounds like fun.
[22:01:11] <n1> i only recently found out that cmn has made an enemy of gewg_ due to this
[22:01:54] <Xyem> Seems a bit silly. It's pretty much a choice between some adjustments and sitting in the queue until it is deleted..
[22:02:08] <Xyem> Understandable if it is substantially changed though.
[22:02:29] <charon_> yeah, gewg/OO will add notes into his subs saying stuff like "don't let cmn32480 butcher this story"
[22:02:36] <n1> he very much has his own style and political agenda, which is usually shown in the subs... he doesn't like them being changed at all..
[22:02:58] <n1> even minor formatting changes, or fixing his stupid links gets his ire
[22:03:39] <Xyem> Awesome. Thanks for the warning.
[22:05:05] <charon_> beware of political slanting. we try to be as neutral as can be. if something is written in a slanted way, it's sometimes best to look for a different source to draw from
[22:05:54] <charon_> gewg/OO often sends stuff from the world socialist review, which is a pretty lefty source. then there's TMB who drops in stuff from breitbart.
[22:06:18] <n1> or that milo fella's blog
[22:06:31] <charon_> i'm still annoyed about the comments in that one
[22:07:02] <charon_> everyone bitching about the source, no one talked about the story
[22:07:12] <n1> i can't remember the story now, but i think i did make a comment on it
[22:07:20] <n1> or maybe i just talked about it in here
[22:07:48] <charon_> you put in a link to a related story that was very good, but no one even read it because OMG Milo!
[22:08:40] <n1> yeah, maybe i didn't comment after that... gave people the opportunity to take it in another direction, and they decided to focus on the attention whore that is milo
[22:09:28] <n1> i should really make something to eat
[22:10:58] <Xyem> So, I didn't do anything too terrible?
[22:13:40] <charon_> nope, they look pretty good to me. i mentioned the only quibbles i had. it's sort of a house style thing on the ellipsis usage
[22:14:33] <Xyem> I don't mind "house style" as long as there is logic behind it and not "because that's what we've always done"..
[22:14:37] <charon_> some people might complain about the UL taking up vertical space for the related links. but i have no problem with it
[22:15:40] <Xyem> That is what styles/Stylish is for :)
[22:18:31] <charon_> oh, and there should probably be a colon after "From the Washington Post" in the Sessions story
[22:18:52] <charon_> and Bytram would give you a great big hug if you italicized it
[22:19:05] <charon_> the name of the paper, that is
[22:19:44] <Xyem> Noted. Colon after it is odd because it becomes "author writes: from somesource: blah blah blah".
[22:20:18] <charon_> yeah, i know what you mean
[22:21:00] <charon_> the whole "Bob writes:" thing is a bit silly, but possibly the least clunky way to credit
[22:39:07] <n1> i generally prefer to do a source: xyz at the end of the summary
[22:39:18] <n1> if it's just a blockquote from somewhere
[22:41:31] <n1> one thing that bugs me is having the url as the link... i can see why some people like it, to know exactly what they're clicking, but it can still be wrong
[22:42:19] <n1> Source: The Washington Post is better than just a http://washingtonpost.com dropped in somewhere
[22:42:21] <charon_> i hate that too. when possible i change the text of the link to be the name of the source
[22:42:45] <Xyem> Perhaps if it is a just a blockquote, it can be "author sends in: <blockquote> from /source/"
[22:44:01] <Xyem> If they add their own comments, it would be "author writes: <blockquote> comments<br /> source: /source/"
[22:44:29] <n1> if you look at the audi/volvo story you did, it was one i submitted and that's the format i prefer
[22:44:43] <Xyem> As the blockquote is for giving context for their comments..
[22:44:45] <charon_> there's no hard and fast rules about that. go ahead and structure it that way.
[22:44:50] <n1> but you can also do "author writes with a story from xyz:"
[22:45:05] <n1> which is probably the cleanest way to do it
[22:45:28] <charon_> i actually like to have the source link be within the blockquote.
[22:45:58] <n1> I don't, because often there's more than one link, and you dont know which one is the original source, by first glance
[22:46:03] <charon_> a representative phrase of the quote will link to its source
[22:46:12] <n1> i know that's how P666 submits most of his, and i don't change it... but i don't like it.
[22:46:24] <Xyem> Just to be clear, I'm not trying to advocate that they are all done the same way..
[22:46:29] <charon_> yeah, point. when i do that, i make it the first link
[22:46:42] <n1> charon_, yeah, which is normally how it goes, but i just like it to be clearer
[22:46:52] <n1> and it's more professional to give appropriate attribution in my opinion
[22:47:02] <n1> rather than 'hiding' it in the quoted text
[22:47:17] <charon_> that's it, pistols at dawn
[22:47:38] <Xyem> May the best formatter win.
[22:47:53] <n1> Xyem, as charon_ said... there's no hard and fast rule.... i just try to go with with what's the most efficient to read/minimal or no wasted space
[22:48:15] <charon_> man, that Athanasius Kirscher can write: https://soylentnews.org
[22:49:53] <n1> it's all fun and games until someone submits a story like that
[22:50:53] <n1> mmmm my house is smelling like curry
[22:51:04] <n1> been a long while since i had that smell going on
[22:51:39] <charon_> you can get curry down there?
[22:52:42] <n1> not really, i mean there's some generic curry seasoning available... but i happened to find some tandoori masala seasoning the other day
[22:52:46] <n1> and i'm putting it to work now
[22:54:46] <n1> oh wow, it's actually locally produced too
[22:55:26] <n1> this could be good... i need to find some more spices and chilies
[22:55:34] <charon_> mmm, chicken tikka masala
[22:56:30] <n1> just went to the website listed on the packet... it's a flash site, and "Sitio Optimizado para 1024 x 768 px. "
[22:57:10] <charon_> wow
[22:57:28] <charon_> holy 1998
[22:58:49] <n1> in many ways, 1998 is still rather current down here