#editorial | Logs for 2017-05-17
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[22:58:49] <n1> in many ways, 1998 is still rather current down here
[22:57:28] <charon_> holy 1998
[22:57:10] <charon_> wow
[22:56:30] <n1> just went to the website listed on the packet... it's a flash site, and "Sitio Optimizado para 1024 x 768 px. "
[22:55:34] <charon_> mmm, chicken tikka masala
[22:55:26] <n1> this could be good... i need to find some more spices and chilies
[22:54:46] <n1> oh wow, it's actually locally produced too
[22:52:46] <n1> and i'm putting it to work now
[22:52:42] <n1> not really, i mean there's some generic curry seasoning available... but i happened to find some tandoori masala seasoning the other day
[22:51:39] <charon_> you can get curry down there?
[22:51:04] <n1> been a long while since i had that smell going on
[22:50:53] <n1> mmmm my house is smelling like curry
[22:49:53] <n1> it's all fun and games until someone submits a story like that
[22:48:15] <charon_> man, that Athanasius Kirscher can write: https://soylentnews.org
[22:47:53] <n1> Xyem, as charon_ said... there's no hard and fast rule.... i just try to go with with what's the most efficient to read/minimal or no wasted space
[22:47:38] <Xyem> May the best formatter win.
[22:47:17] <charon_> that's it, pistols at dawn
[22:47:02] <n1> rather than 'hiding' it in the quoted text
[22:46:52] <n1> and it's more professional to give appropriate attribution in my opinion
[22:46:42] <n1> charon_, yeah, which is normally how it goes, but i just like it to be clearer
[22:46:29] <charon_> yeah, point. when i do that, i make it the first link
[22:46:24] <Xyem> Just to be clear, I'm not trying to advocate that they are all done the same way..
[22:46:12] <n1> i know that's how P666 submits most of his, and i don't change it... but i don't like it.
[22:46:03] <charon_> a representative phrase of the quote will link to its source
[22:45:58] <n1> I don't, because often there's more than one link, and you dont know which one is the original source, by first glance
[22:45:28] <charon_> i actually like to have the source link be within the blockquote.
[22:45:05] <n1> which is probably the cleanest way to do it
[22:44:50] <n1> but you can also do "author writes with a story from xyz:"
[22:44:45] <charon_> there's no hard and fast rules about that. go ahead and structure it that way.
[22:44:43] <Xyem> As the blockquote is for giving context for their comments..
[22:44:29] <n1> if you look at the audi/volvo story you did, it was one i submitted and that's the format i prefer
[22:44:01] <Xyem> If they add their own comments, it would be "author writes: <blockquote> comments<br /> source: /source/"
[22:42:45] <Xyem> Perhaps if it is a just a blockquote, it can be "author sends in: <blockquote> from /source/"
[22:42:21] <charon_> i hate that too. when possible i change the text of the link to be the name of the source
[22:42:19] <n1> Source: The Washington Post is better than just a http://washingtonpost.com dropped in somewhere
[22:41:31] <n1> one thing that bugs me is having the url as the link... i can see why some people like it, to know exactly what they're clicking, but it can still be wrong
[22:39:18] <n1> if it's just a blockquote from somewhere
[22:39:07] <n1> i generally prefer to do a source: xyz at the end of the summary
[22:21:00] <charon_> the whole "Bob writes:" thing is a bit silly, but possibly the least clunky way to credit
[22:20:18] <charon_> yeah, i know what you mean
[22:19:44] <Xyem> Noted. Colon after it is odd because it becomes "author writes: from somesource: blah blah blah".
[22:19:05] <charon_> the name of the paper, that is
[22:18:52] <charon_> and Bytram would give you a great big hug if you italicized it
[22:18:31] <charon_> oh, and there should probably be a colon after "From the Washington Post" in the Sessions story
[22:15:40] <Xyem> That is what styles/Stylish is for :)
[22:14:37] <charon_> some people might complain about the UL taking up vertical space for the related links. but i have no problem with it
[22:14:33] <Xyem> I don't mind "house style" as long as there is logic behind it and not "because that's what we've always done"..
[22:13:40] <charon_> nope, they look pretty good to me. i mentioned the only quibbles i had. it's sort of a house style thing on the ellipsis usage
[22:10:58] <Xyem> So, I didn't do anything too terrible?
[22:09:28] <n1> i should really make something to eat
[22:08:40] <n1> yeah, maybe i didn't comment after that... gave people the opportunity to take it in another direction, and they decided to focus on the attention whore that is milo
[22:07:48] <charon_> you put in a link to a related story that was very good, but no one even read it because OMG Milo!
[22:07:20] <n1> or maybe i just talked about it in here
[22:07:12] <n1> i can't remember the story now, but i think i did make a comment on it
[22:07:02] <charon_> everyone bitching about the source, no one talked about the story
[22:06:31] <charon_> i'm still annoyed about the comments in that one
[22:06:18] <n1> or that milo fella's blog
[22:05:54] <charon_> gewg/OO often sends stuff from the world socialist review, which is a pretty lefty source. then there's TMB who drops in stuff from breitbart.
[22:05:05] <charon_> beware of political slanting. we try to be as neutral as can be. if something is written in a slanted way, it's sometimes best to look for a different source to draw from
[22:03:39] <Xyem> Awesome. Thanks for the warning.
[22:02:58] <n1> even minor formatting changes, or fixing his stupid links gets his ire
[22:02:36] <n1> he very much has his own style and political agenda, which is usually shown in the subs... he doesn't like them being changed at all..
[22:02:29] <charon_> yeah, gewg/OO will add notes into his subs saying stuff like "don't let cmn32480 butcher this story"
[22:02:08] <Xyem> Understandable if it is substantially changed though.
[22:01:54] <Xyem> Seems a bit silly. It's pretty much a choice between some adjustments and sitting in the queue until it is deleted..
[22:01:11] <n1> i only recently found out that cmn has made an enemy of gewg_ due to this
[22:00:41] <Xyem> Sounds like fun.
[22:00:16] <n1> and*
[22:00:12] <n1> adn then you will suffer gewg_'s wrath for any adjustments you make
[21:59:53] <charon_> the sessions one is well done. good job on finding a link to the memo
[21:59:04] <charon_> i gave you a tame OO_ story. someday you shall see him in his full splendour
[21:58:18] <Xyem> Heh, yeah, I get it.
[21:58:14] <charon_> lol
[21:58:05] <n1> say we did that with a gewg_ submission, it would be 50% empty for all the bits he cuts out
[21:57:00] <n1> Xyem, i understand where you're coming from there, but you end up with 3 lines of no information, which isn't very useful... if the quotes are chosen appropriately, it should read fine and [...] just blanket covers any bits removed
[21:55:46] <Xyem> Will do.
[21:55:44] * Xyem nods
[21:55:38] <n1> if there are footnotes or links in a block quotes, they should be retained where possible
[21:55:30] <charon_> https://soylentnews.org
[21:55:25] <Xyem> To me, having it at the start makes it look like some was cut off from the start of the paragraph, having it between shows the paragraphs are complete.
[21:55:10] <charon_> on that story, i kept the <sup>1</sup> but took out the link. then placed the text of the footnote at the bottom of the story with a "[1]" to show where it belonged
[21:54:18] <Xyem> Okay.
[21:54:07] <n1> if cutting a paragraph short, you can put it at the end of that one, or if you're just skipping paragraphs put it at the start of the next paragraph you are using.
[21:53:55] <Xyem> Ah, so footnotes should be retained?
[21:53:00] <n1> note on the bead story... should be [...] and also, try and keep it on a line with some text, otherwise it's harder to read and wasted space
[21:52:06] <charon_> after "analysis" in the first graph
[21:51:19] <charon_> on the bead one, the summarization is good. you took out a footnote though.
[21:49:27] <charon_> xyem: first two look good, they were softballs that were well constructed by their submitters
[21:46:45] <n1> charon_, you can
[21:46:35] <Xyem> Okay, I think I've finished making a mess of that.
[21:46:06] <charon_> hhmm, wonder if i merge two worthless political stories, can i delete the merged story?
[21:39:12] <charon_> now we see how this site works. threats of bodily harm are upvoted
[21:37:30] <Bender> karma - charon: 29
[21:37:29] <n1> charon++
[21:09:07] <charon_> so if you want to post those with the Display box unchecked, and i'll take a look at them and grade you accordingly. no pressure or anything, but failure means defenestration
[21:05:47] <Xyem> Sounds reasonable to me.
[21:02:30] <charon_> if a submission is substantially written by the submitter, i try to take a very light hand on editing. spelling, capitalization, HTML formatting, very occasional word changes for clarity
[21:00:59] <charon_> this may seem obvious, but we strive for accuracy to the source material
[21:00:41] <Xyem> Noted :)
[20:59:40] <charon_> and if a quote is included, make sure it is correct and that not too much is elided. there is one contributor who is notorious for sending quotes that have lots of elipses and bolding for his own emphasis. that sort of thing should be looked at very carefully
[20:56:27] <charon_> where, that is
[20:56:26] <Xyem> Sure, that makes sense.
[20:56:16] <charon_> but it's most important that you follow each link to be sure it points when it ought to
[20:55:32] <charon_> for that one, i arbitrarily picked one, got a quote from it, and arrayed the other links after.
[20:54:48] <charon_> yeah.
[20:54:16] <Xyem> I'd imagine they are the most difficult ones.
[20:43:40] <charon_> and then there's the one you're in now which is a bunch of links and no connective tissue
[20:41:46] <charon_> also there are a couple bots that submit an article when given a link. one of them gives only a single sentence. one of them dumps the entire article. the variance is wide
[20:41:18] <charon_> yes
[20:41:07] <Xyem> From the beads story down?
[20:40:18] <charon_> the last 4 in the submissions page are taken directly from actual subs in the last few days on the prod server. so you can get a rough feel for the way they can be constructed depending on how careful the submitter is
[20:38:49] <Xyem> Sure thing :)
[20:37:32] <charon_> if you want to continue doing some editing practice, i have some subs on dev set up for you to take a look at.
[20:36:28] <Bender> karma - xyem: 2
[20:36:28] <charon_> Xyem++
[20:36:19] <charon_> already fixing bugs, i see. thank you!
[20:31:54] <Xyem> Evening charon
[20:17:23] <charon_> hiyo #editorial
[20:14:38] -!- mode/#editorial [+v charon_] by Hephaestus
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[18:27:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> nearest fiddy bucks
[18:21:02] <chromas> Round it up to the nearest coin ;)
[18:20:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> here, let's move this over to #dev so we don't clutter things up any more for the edity folks
[18:19:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> zero the jingly money in subscribe.pl would be my first idea
[18:18:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause the code on our end is the same whether the user picks cc or bitcoin and cc works with change.
[18:17:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> so it's a bug in their code that we need to work around.
[18:17:50] <Xyem> Okay, I'll see if I can find it.
[18:17:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, it's ANY change with bitcoin
[18:14:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> all you do for that is fill out the email address, hit the bitcoin button, and wait.
[18:13:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> possibly because i tried bitcoin?
[18:13:37] <Xyem> Oh, perhaps not. £31.2556 works too. Is it only not working when it is, say, $30.0025?
[18:12:52] <Xyem> Yeah, that's what I did.
[18:12:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> bingo, found one bug. fractional cents.
[18:11:11] <chromas> You're just not breaking it the right way
[18:11:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, calling it something funky bytram did until he can figure out how to reproduce it.
[18:10:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh. i dunno, something Bytram tried the other day.
[18:09:56] <Xyem> What value is seeing an error?
[18:09:36] <Xyem> Hm.. $31.25 works correctly.
[18:02:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://stripe.com <--- docs on stripe checkout. they expect their values in cents rather than dollars.
[18:01:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> anything in the future
[18:01:50] <Xyem> What is the expiry date for the test card?
[18:00:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> then tail the error log to see what happens when it gives you a 500
[18:00:41] <Xyem> Ah, cool.
[18:00:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'a test number and dev is set up to use their test server.
[18:00:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> right, try it on dev with 4242 4242 4242 4242 as a cc# and 123 as the cvc
[18:00:00] <Xyem> What is the "X" behaviour? Submitting the wrong value, crashing the server, delivering pizza without cheese?
[17:59:30] <Xyem> So whole dollars is fine but it does X when it is fractional dollars.
[17:59:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar
[17:59:16] <Xyem> When you say "even dollars", do you mean whole dollars?
[17:56:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, no, i lied. it's in subscribe.pl in the stripe sub.
[17:53:41] <Xyem> Alright, I'll have a look.
[17:53:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> bug is likely somewhere in plugins/Subscribe/Subscribe.pm and needs some creative use of sprintf to fix
[17:52:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> right now stripe payments go through peachy keen on even dollar amounts but our code (pre-sending of the value) borks on change.
[17:51:39] <Xyem> What's that?
[17:51:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> Xyem, i've got something you can do if you're just bored and wanting to cut your teeth
[17:46:54] <n1> not the most reliable editor here by a long way, like some of the other staff here my life is rather erratic... but it appears i've been an editor here for 3 years now... we're an odd cast of characters
[17:44:00] <Xyem> Cool :)
[17:39:59] <n1> as you may (or not) have guessed, i'm from the UK... but i'm not located there right now, i've been in north and south america the last few months
[17:39:15] <n1> great, although we technically have UTC/GMT based editors (including myself) it's not actually the case right now.
[17:38:06] <Xyem> I'm usually around at least 18:00-23:00 UTC weekdays.
[17:36:26] <n1> if you plan on hanging around for the evening, we'll get back to the editorial 'training' a bit later... right now the stories queue on the main site is almost run out, and i'm heading out shortly to investigate my local equivalent of a cash-n-carry
[17:33:52] <Xyem> Indeed. Don't have feathers for your hat, have a hat for your feathers.
[17:28:43] <n1> when i had a regular job, that's what i aimed for
[17:28:13] <n1> damn right... it's actually the best situation to be in, too valuable to be narrowly defined in a regular position
[17:27:01] <Xyem> It saved me through every round of redundancies in the past 10 years, even though I've never had a properly defined job, so I must be doing something right!
[17:25:51] <n1> it is always good to be the MVP or close to it, in your company or department
[17:24:38] <n1> lol
[17:24:37] <n1> ahh
[17:24:25] <Xyem> Oh, I mean the IT department for my company. They constantly tell me that they are great. They are not :)
[17:23:56] <Xyem> Either way, even more people know I am useful to have around, which is always good!
[17:23:47] <n1> i've seen it happen before, a company is merged/taken over, and there's always some guy in a dept somewhere who will refuse to go along with anything, and while the rest of the company integrates, they will be determined to continue on as they always have done and ignore the merge
[17:23:41] <Xyem> Not sure what you mean..
[17:22:32] <n1> i'm sure a few people have been put out of place by their domains being taken over by your company
[17:19:06] <Xyem> company's*
[17:18:59] <Xyem> Despite the companies IT department being all high-and-mighty, it has (once again) come down to me to actually get the job done :P
[17:18:23] <n1> oh that's always fun... lots of cans of worms can be opened
[17:17:30] <Xyem> Company I work for bought another one that was about to go bump and they are being transferred to our systems.
[17:17:06] <Xyem> Not my job, not my department, not even my division!
[17:16:23] <n1> ah well, if it doesn't... keeps you in a job for longer :p
[17:13:49] <Xyem> I'm alright thanks. Hoping that a process I left running at work completes tonight without issue but.. I doubt it.
[17:05:25] <n1> how about yourself?
[17:05:21] <n1> i'm good thanks, well rested for a change
[16:57:44] <Xyem> Afternoon. How are you?
[16:56:33] <n1> hey there Xyem
[16:50:24] <Xyem> I should be fine to play Spot the Submission Slip-up whenever.
[16:14:31] -!- mode/#editorial [+v n1] by Hephaestus
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[12:11:00] <Bytram> afk
[12:10:52] <Bytram> Eye except aisle cheque inn bee four eye leaf four gut
[12:09:59] <Bytram> sadly, 'tis time for me to prepare to head out into the working world.
[12:09:22] <Bytram> ewe wheel dew jest feign hear
[12:09:00] <Xyem> I donut no whut yew marine?
[12:08:04] <Bytram> nah, half the fun here is the intentionally mispeeled words
[12:07:38] <Bytram> Xyem: had a friend in high school, he'd double all the middle consonants and then go back and cross off the extra 'c' -- that was how he learned how to spell unnecessary.
[12:07:09] <Xyem> Clearly, IRC needs a preview button too :)
[12:06:38] <Xyem> unnecessary*
[12:06:35] <exec> 10Boston, MA, USA - currently 68°F, partly cloudy, wind S at 8 mph, humidity 53% - Wednesday partly cloudy (70°F:86°F), Thursday mostly sunny (70°F:92°F), Friday partly cloudy (49°F:80°F), Saturday sunny (47°F:62°F)
[12:06:32] <Bytram> ~weather boston
[12:06:28] <Xyem> I will type that correctly at some point..
[12:06:27] <Bytram> and... totally unrelatd to editing, but we have some helpful 'bots' in this channel (and many others). For example:
[12:06:17] <Xyem> Heh, no unnecerssary limits.
[12:06:03] <Xyem> Heh, no unneccersary limits.
[12:05:24] <Bytram> thing is, there are times when we *do* want to 'deep 6' a story, so we do not want to entirely prevent seemingly non-sensical dates, either.
[12:04:39] <Xyem> Already noticed that :)
[12:04:39] <Bytram> nice
[12:04:35] * Xyem nods
[12:04:22] <Bytram> and, it should go without saying, but if you ever have any questions, feel free to check in with the gang here. We've got a really good group who remember their own learning pains and are more than willing to help.
[12:04:13] <Xyem> I've written up a list of things to look into dev-side from the training. That is one of them.
[12:02:58] <Bytram> if you ever see a date/time stamp in that RHS queue of "1970-01-01" or somerthing like that, it means your release date/time has something wrong with it.
[12:02:05] <Bytram> Just last night, I did that and saved a story from going into never-never land (had a malformed release date/time). Then check the exerpted story queue on the RHS, to verify it appeared where it expected.
[12:01:29] <Xyem> I will keep that in mind.
[12:00:45] <Bytram> From what I saw they covered most of what you'll need to deal with, but I'd add one thing (based on hard-won experience)... it's a good idea to get in the habit of clicking the 'Preview' button after you *think* you're done... don't just click 'Update', give it one more preview.
[11:59:51] <Xyem> I don't have anything against lisp. Just not fond of learning something I will only use once while in the middle of learning a bunch of things :)
[11:59:27] <Bytram> looks like you had some hands-on training, and are getting up to speed... yay!
[11:58:32] <Xyem> Thanks :)
[11:52:22] <Bytram> Xyem: I see you've volunteered to help out round here... welcome aboard!
[11:52:03] <Bytram> trump story updated -- added ars technica reference and tweets
[11:51:17] <Bytram> Lisp isn't THAT bad... once you understand recursion. =)
[11:44:40] * Xyem is relieved
[11:44:22] <Xyem> Turns out, I don't have to learn lisp after all.
[11:40:44] <Bytram> brb laundry
[11:40:01] <Bytram> I'm updating trump classified release story
[04:52:49] <Bytram> have a good night everyone!
[04:52:42] <Bytram> that's it for me... time to hit the sack.
[04:14:00] * exec irresponsibly offers a zip archive of beef stock to Fnord666
[04:13:58] <Bytram> ~gnight Fnord666
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[04:08:31] <n1> g'night Fnord666
[04:08:28] * n1 hat tip
[04:07:46] <Fnord666> Good night Bytram n1
[04:07:34] <Fnord666> Time for me to head off to the land of nod.
[04:05:28] <Bytram> afk
[04:05:27] <Bytram> break time
[04:05:12] <Bytram> Fnord666: charon: n1: CoolHand: You guys are the best! I've been snowed under between work and other outside stuff, and was absolutely *thrilled* to take a quick peak and see that you were keeping the story queue filled -- was a big load off my mind! THANKS!
[04:03:31] <Bytram> now that I'm caught up to the current state of the world...
[04:03:18] <Bytram> and...
[04:02:47] <Bytram> oh, and FYI, I purged a half-dozen or so stories from the submissions queue a couple days ago
[04:01:49] <Bytram> bring a flashlight.. and a towel, of course.
[04:01:31] <n1> my once a year trip to dev
[04:01:28] <Bytram> it's strange to me that tmb seemingly despises the template editor -- I find it intuitive and kinda fun.
[04:01:21] <n1> Bytram, indeed
[04:00:58] <Bytram> on the fly, in real time, too. =)
[04:00:40] <Fnord666> lol
[04:00:32] * exec points at Bytram
[04:00:31] <Bytram> ~blame
[04:00:28] <Bytram> oh, I'm quite capable of doing that... =)
[04:00:12] <Fnord666> change how it works I mean since someone figured it out.
[04:00:04] <Bytram> wasn't clear as I was skimming quickly, but Ihope that practice session was on dev. right?
[03:59:44] <Fnord666> Guess it's time to change it then.
[03:59:43] <Bytram> yep, I saw a ready willingness to help out
[03:59:22] <Bytram> np. it IS confusing and is only because of all the re-visits to my mental model of what was going on that I was finally able to figure out what was happening
[03:58:52] <n1> but Xyem seems like he'll be fine figuring it all out, wanting to work on dev also i believe
[03:58:31] <Bytram> the preview I see at the top *is* what will be on the main page / story view once the timer pings and a new cached copy is created.
[03:58:06] <n1> that's what i was trying to explain, badly
[03:57:45] <Bytram> that said, when I go into the story *editor* -- what I see is loaded straight from the DB and is the most up-to-date version of the story...
[03:56:57] <Bytram> same kind of thing happens when I go in to view a particular story... some bits are on the fly every time, other bits are calculated occasionally
[03:56:26] <Bytram> ISTR that being every minue or two for the refreshing of that cached material
[03:56:04] <Bytram> Whe I load the main page, https://soylentnews.org, there is a bunch of stuff that is created on the fly (custom to my nick and/or to an AC), and there is other stuff that is regenerated periodically -- a performance improvement so that it does not have to be recalculated for every single visitor to the site every single time.
[03:55:59] <n1> i'm quite bad, i generally don't pay attention to changes and do everything the same way from day 1
[03:55:11] <n1> yeah, i didn't explain it very well, also wasn't sure if anything changed
[03:54:16] <Bytram> lol
[03:54:12] <Fnord666> Starting to feel like old mother hubbard's place.
[03:54:12] <Bytram> saw what might be some confusion as to how the site caches stories.
[03:53:28] <Bytram> whew! or should that be whooooosh! Finally caught up to the present
[03:52:13] <n1> trimmed a few earlier, the cupboard is pretty bare
[03:51:03] <Fnord666> n1 - any plan to clean house in the sub queue anytime soon?
[03:50:32] * Bytram note to self -- clarify confusion on appearance of story: on disk, on main page, and in preview of story editor
[03:45:20] * Bytram is STILL reading backscroll in #editorial
[03:44:41] <n1> mostly me just ranting about bad submissions, and showing the new ed around
[03:39:42] <Bytram> well, am pretty well caught up except for *THIS* channel -- what a chatty bunch we've had today...
[03:37:36] <Fnord666> there goes your nap
[03:37:24] * Bytram tries to catch up on backscroll in 12 channels
[03:35:53] <Bytram> 'zactly
[03:35:47] <Fnord666> Sounds like a productive day then
[03:35:46] <Bytram> Well.... one of my coworkers has blue eyes I could fall into and hang around for ever =) but for, umm, other reasons, would be a BAD idea
[03:34:41] <Bytram> I've been short on sleep for quite a stretch now, so I obviously needed to do some catching up
[03:33:57] <Bytram> ws about a 90 minute trip each way, so had a nice chance to bond a bit with a coworker and my manager (who came into my dept a few months ago)
[03:33:43] <Fnord666> don't answer that...
[03:33:24] <Fnord666> Free food, a nap, what more could you ask for?
[03:33:08] <Bender> karma - fnord666: 14
[03:33:08] <Bytram> Fnord666++ I didntdunuffin
[03:32:53] <Fnord666> Apparently it's everyone else's fault.
[03:32:50] <n1> Bytram, sounds like a good day
[03:32:23] <n1> i just stumbled across something to do with that '29 dead coalminers' story we've covered a couple times... 'To claim his innocence, during the one year he spent in prison, Blankenship also self-published a book titled, "An American Political Prisoner."'
[03:32:14] * Bytram is NOT complaining!
[03:31:44] <Fnord666> nice
[03:31:35] <Bender> karma - freefood: 1
[03:31:35] <Bytram> freefood++
[03:31:32] * Bytram had a work trip today -- was treated to a large itialian dinner by my bos -- got home and went straight to bed and only woke up a short while ago
[03:31:03] <Fnord666> Bytram - how have you been?
[03:30:42] <Bytram> lol
[03:30:25] * n1 hat tip
[03:30:22] * exec points at Bytram
[03:30:21] <n1> ~blame
[03:30:05] <Bytram> n1: hat tip
[03:29:54] <Bytram> Fnord666: you're welcome
[03:29:48] <Fnord666> busy as a one armed paper hanger, but other than that...
[03:29:24] <n1> ah, ok lol
[03:29:22] <Fnord666> Doing well thank you,.
[03:29:12] <Fnord666> evolutionary error = missing link. :)
[03:28:55] <n1> im good thanks, how about you?
[03:28:41] <n1> ?
[03:28:06] <Fnord666> Thanks for correcting the evolutionary error on that one story.
[03:27:19] <exec> <Fnord666> So how've you been?
[03:27:17] <Fnord666> s/now/how/
[03:27:10] <Fnord666> So now've you been?
[03:27:03] <Fnord666> Now if we can upgrade the submissions...
[03:25:43] <n1> Fnord666, that's the rumour going around town
[03:25:09] <Fnord666> And howdy editorial!
[03:23:42] <Fnord666> ~msg Bytram Thanks!
[03:23:22] <Fnord666> n1 - new editor?
[01:58:17] -!- charon_ has quit []
[01:58:12] <charon_> anyway, leaving work. catch you later on
[01:57:24] <charon_> yeah
[01:55:46] <n1> not an ideal situation really
[01:55:35] <n1> so you can write whatever you want
[01:55:20] <n1> it doesn't seem to check it against the user list
[01:54:41] <charon_> and it shows that name. not mine. which is what i wanted but not sure it's what the site wants
[01:53:55] <charon_> uh... did i just never notice this before? i am submitting stories in other people's names...
[01:51:58] * n1 hat tip
[01:51:55] <n1> good night Xyem
[01:51:32] <Bender> karma - bender: 1
[01:51:32] <Xyem> Bender++
[01:51:28] <Bender> karma - charon: 28
[01:51:28] <Xyem> charon++
[01:51:27] <charon_> cheers Xyem
[01:51:07] <Bender> karma - n1: 36
[01:51:07] <Xyem> n1++
[01:51:05] <Xyem> Right, heading off to bed, leaving a karma trail in my wake. Speak to you tomorrow, good night!
[01:50:49] <charon_> i can mark you down if you like
[01:50:15] <n1> more karma than i thought, too much good behaviour
[01:49:22] <Bender> karma - n1: 35
[01:49:22] <charon_> n1++
[01:47:35] <charon_> lol
[01:45:40] <Bender> karma - teamwork: 137
[01:45:40] <n1> teamwork++
[01:45:05] <Xyem> I'm not sentimental.. shush.
[01:45:01] * Xyem takes a screenshot of the occasion of getting his first karma
[01:44:50] <n1> thanks for volunteering, Xyem... it is most appreciated by everyone here!
[01:44:17] <Bender> karma - xyem: 1
[01:44:17] <n1> Xyem++
[01:44:13] <Bender> karma - charon: 27
[01:44:13] <n1> charon++
[01:44:09] <Xyem> Sounds good, thanks.
[01:43:59] <charon_> i will dump a few summaries into dev to look at tomorrow
[01:43:33] <charon_> yay tomorrow!
[01:43:33] <n1> it's not that often we get volunteers, try and snare you while we got you ;)
[01:42:49] <n1> sounds like a plan...
[01:42:09] <Xyem> Could we play tomorrow? It rolls on 3am here and I intend on learning lisp "tomorrow" :)
[01:41:20] <n1> charon_, you want to play 'what's wrong with this summary' with Xyem? ... i should make dinner.
[01:40:34] * Xyem nods
[01:40:21] <charon_> in case it's unclear, images are almost never in the page. not because we can't but because we choose not to
[01:39:44] <n1> charon_, well yeah, but you know.. rules broken, exceptions that prove them.
[01:39:21] <Xyem> I'm getting a nice list of dev things to do from this discussion :)
[01:39:19] <charon_> unless you're the boss, that is
[01:38:56] <charon_> discouraged, i say
[01:38:41] <n1> charon_, you can but you should not... if someone puts images in the summaries, there will be unpaid overtime as a consequence.
[01:38:07] <n1> the fast forward box, next to the time/date will move a story up the queue to 'now' ... so if there was a breaking news event a few hours ago, and there was updates to it, we would fast-forward it. but very rare
[01:37:29] <charon_> and while you *can* put pictures in the summary, it is discouraged. videos cannot be embedded
[01:36:46] <n1> decoration
[01:36:24] <charon_> non-operative as far as i can tell. i've messed around with it and can't get anything to change
[01:36:18] <n1> we also don't use the upload image or body text options
[01:35:34] <n1> the media box is just there for decoration or something
[01:35:20] <n1> so if it's a lengthy summary, more than 3 or 4 normal paragraphs, some of it would end up in there
[01:34:58] <n1> last couple things before the summary itself... the extended copy box is text that will appear once someone views the story, but it wont show up on the main page
[01:32:28] <n1> it's not so bad now, in the old days we tried not to break the site, just in case it fell over... but these days the devs have done enough work everything is somewhat understood
[01:32:01] <Xyem> A hint that I'm a tester right there :)
[01:31:06] <Xyem> Heh, the first thing I tried was omitting them to see what it would do..
[01:30:31] <charon_> ditto
[01:30:22] <n1> in the dept you can leave out the -'s and it will add them for you, something that i didnt know for a long time
[01:29:52] <n1> so you can see your new headline and dept in the preview now, above the editing menus
[01:29:06] <n1> but if you go to edit it for a third time, it will.... but yeah, normally you'd just hit preview.
[01:28:40] <Xyem> Okay.
[01:28:10] <n1> but just if you happen to edit a story, realize you missed something and jump back in it quickly, on that second edit... when you go back into the story in the queue, it might not show you the edit you just made for a couple minutes
[01:27:29] <n1> what you would normally do, after setting a headline, dept, time and topics is hit preview not save
[01:26:53] <Xyem> So the second save triggers a cache refresh but the first doesn't?
[01:25:20] <n1> to see the latest version you must edit the story
[01:25:12] <n1> what is shows you when you first click on it in the stories list, may not be updated yet, cache hasn't refreshed
[01:24:47] <n1> so now you can go back into the story, and it will show you first what it looks like as you've already seen... if you save a story, quickly edit it and then save again
[01:24:12] <Xyem> Got it :)
[01:24:03] <n1> you can edit a story yourself as many times as you want, but it will only go green if someone else saves it too
[01:23:45] <Xyem> Ah I see.
[01:23:36] <n1> if you then save them -- even if you don't change anything -- they'll go green to say it's been 2nd edited
[01:23:14] <n1> it's always good to have a second set of eyes on a story, so while it doesn't actually prevent it from going live... later, if you see there are stories in the queue that are red, you can take a look at them
[01:22:31] <Xyem> I see.
[01:22:18] <n1> and for a meta story, multiple people may work on it, but it might not be ready to go live... so it would be set to not display just to be sure the release time didn't sneak up on it before it was ready
[01:21:08] <n1> it's not optional, but it is not required for the story to go live... our policy is to have every story second checked, but sometimes it's not possible due to editor availability
[01:20:21] <Xyem> Ah, so the second editor check is optional?
[01:17:14] <n1> if it was yellow then it would go live, when the release time hits
[01:17:04] <n1> but now, if that time comes... the story wont actually go public
[01:16:49] <n1> the checkbox is should be selected when you're ready for another editor to give the story a second look... it will be default be ready, usually you'd only uncheck it for a big story you weren't going to finish right away
[01:15:37] <Xyem> So the display checkbox is for after you have checked a yellow one?
[01:15:07] <n1> the important thing is never refresh the stories page when you've just saved/updated a story.
[01:14:26] <n1> you didn't uncheck the display box, if you did it would be grey
[01:14:05] <Xyem> The one I edited is yellow now and at the top of the page.
[01:13:24] <n1> if the story you're working on is at the end of the queue, it will be top of that list
[01:12:30] <n1> referencing the stories page means you only have to do that step once... it depends how many stories are in the queue
[01:12:04] <n1> yeah once you do that, you should be able to see if it's at the end of the queue
[01:11:35] <charon_> many many times i have caught a timing error that way
[01:11:15] <charon_> i always set the time and preview instead of saving. then when it is previewed, you can see where it will fall in the timing queue sidebar
[01:10:37] <Xyem> Okay, must remember Javascript needs to be on to do this..
[01:10:34] <n1> once you save a submission it will take you to the stories page, do not refresh that page if you just updated or accepted a submission
[01:08:54] <n1> on dev it doesn't matter as there's no stories in the queue pending
[01:08:34] <n1> so it's always best to refer to the actual stories page for your timings
[01:08:02] <n1> the stories list on the right shows you the queue... but for reasons beyond my comprehension it doesn't always show you the whole queue relevant to you... if you start to edit a story, it will select a time close to the present and that list displays stories near that time, but perhaps not the last story ready to go live
[01:04:23] <n1> so now, if you've set the headline, topics, dept., and time a some hours in the in the future.... uncheck the display box next to the preview button and click save
[01:03:37] <Xyem> Of course.
[01:01:35] <n1> we only update a summary after going live for broken links or spelling mistakes, unless it's a breaking news story we won't add anything after it's gone live.... and then it would be noted as an update
[01:00:35] <n1> if it shows up a story that's related, previous coverage of the same story, then it's good to link it in the summary
[00:58:28] <n1> unless you happen to remember every story we've ever done, it's pretty hard not to
[00:58:16] <n1> and the similar stories is what it is... it's the quick way of checking if it's a dupe, but it's not perfect... dupes do happen
[00:57:31] <n1> sometimes it will say you are, when not, but it will show you the headline of the other story, which just has a few similar words or links
[00:56:35] <Xyem> Ah I see, cool.
[00:56:17] <n1> also as you'll see below the headline... the site will tell you if you're looking at the same story as someone else, another occasion to check in here if someone else is working on it, or just taking a look
[00:52:02] <n1> is likely to create a lot of arguments, keep them spaced
[00:51:49] <n1> depends on how subjective you take politics though, but anything that
[00:51:41] <charon_> because half the time the comments turn into arguments
[00:51:25] <charon_> we try to limit politics to one story per day
[00:50:55] <n1> it's good to try and keep the topics diverse... doesn't always happen, but you don't want a bunch of heavy science, or politics, or whatever in a row
[00:50:42] <Xyem> Okay.
[00:50:17] <n1> so whatever story taking out, just move it to the end of the queue
[00:49:56] <n1> probably best to swap a story out, if it's breaking news
[00:49:34] <n1> if you put an invalid time/date and save the story, it disappears to the back of the queue in 1970 something
[00:49:09] <Xyem> Do the other "non-breaking" stories get moved along to keep the 90 minutes spacing, or is it aimed to be 90 minutes plus the extra breaking ones?
[00:48:36] <n1> time must be set in GMT/UTC
[00:48:22] <n1> should be discussed in here, if a story completely jumps the queue for whatever reason.
[00:48:12] <Xyem> Understood.
[00:47:56] <n1> release date, is where it will appear in the stories queue... so like i said before... story spacing 90mins, add your story to the end of the queue, unless it's particularly time sensitive/breaking news
[00:46:35] <n1> so both author and comment status there's no reason to ever change
[00:45:51] <n1> yup, which is why only a few names appear in the list of options... people who have/had privs at some point or another
[00:44:41] <charon_> important to note that this usage of "author" means the editor who posts the story
[00:43:38] <n1> for some reason we still have the option to change the author of the story, if you wanted to blame Bytram i guess.
[00:42:11] <charon_> xyem: yes, you've got it!
[00:42:09] <n1> sometimes it's the part of editing that takes the most time, if you want it to
[00:41:35] <n1> if you've been on the site for any length of time, there's the dept title where you can be creative
[00:41:15] <Xyem> 4/10. Should be "Tiny insects new ability will BLOW YOUR MIND".
[00:40:09] <charon_> i changed one earlier today that was a click-baity "This Fly's incredible hearing is awesome"
[00:39:12] <Xyem> Fair enough :)
[00:37:59] <n1> it's one of those things for me, i hate a bad headline... i want to know what the story is about before i read it
[00:36:50] <n1> read the wiki for the headline style guide... if you can think of a better/more informative headline, change it
[00:36:29] <charon_> true, NC freehands his subs right into the main page
[00:36:18] * Xyem nods
[00:36:08] <n1> but generally you wouldn't get those in the subs queue
[00:35:49] <charon_> and the occasional Meta nexus story which is news about the site itself
[00:34:48] <n1> otherwise just have it with the main page nexus and a couple relevant topics
[00:34:23] <n1> the most important thing with that is the politics nexus, discretion is needed on politics to decide if a story should run at all, or if it's just flamebait or partisan trolling for example
[00:32:58] <n1> good to know
[00:31:43] <charon_> correct, it does not
[00:31:33] <n1> as far as i'm aware now, the order of the topics and nexuses in the box doesn't matter anymore... charon_ ?
[00:30:20] <charon_> oh wait, yeah it does. crisis averted
[00:30:17] <n1> lol
[00:29:57] <Xyem> Only if you have javascript enabled :)
[00:29:50] <charon_> oh hell, that wiki page makes no mention of the topic selector sub-window
[00:29:34] <n1> the x above the + deletes them from the story
[00:29:01] <n1> click the + nd a menu opens and you can then select a nexus and topic(s) for the story by one click and then add button
[00:28:15] <n1> everything is fairly self explanatory there... the nexus/topic thing is the weird part
[00:27:32] <Xyem> I'm on the editing page now.
[00:26:01] <Xyem> Hopefully, I can make it append your comment if it gets edited between you opening it and submitting it.
[00:25:35] <n1> the preview button will then bring up the actual editing page
[00:25:15] <Xyem> Already have something in mind to prevent it :)
[00:25:06] <charon_> race condition for the win
[00:24:55] <n1> so ideally you wouldn't overwrite a comment, but it's unlikely two people do it at the same time
[00:24:49] <charon_> me neither. it's all internalized
[00:24:37] <n1> i couldn't tell you how long it's been since i read any of the editing guidelines or whatever
[00:24:27] * Xyem adds that to list of things to improve
[00:24:21] <Xyem> I see it, so you did overwrite it.
[00:23:43] <n1> i'm still very much doing things exactly the same as i did 2 years ago or however long it's been lol
[00:23:41] <charon_> i actually made some updates to it to make it slightly less misleading
[00:23:21] <n1> charon_, i forget that exists
[00:23:14] <n1> i dont see a note you made, unless i just overwrote it... but i put one there now on the space x story you might be able to see
[00:23:03] <Xyem> n1: Of course, reasons for doing things are good.
[00:22:45] <charon_> https://wiki.soylentnews.org
[00:22:37] <charon_> if you ever worry about not having n1 around to explain the editing interface to you, this Wiki page has a more or less accurate step-by-step guide to editing a story. beware, it is dull and will only make sense after you already know everything in it.
[00:21:48] <Xyem> Hm, "View Note" doesn't work (javascript, I presume).
[00:21:33] <n1> below that, you can see the option to delete/reject a submission... if it's a registered user submitting a story it's polite to give them a message to say why. we generally don't delete stories without discussing or leaving a note first, 2nd opinion
[00:21:13] <Xyem> Ah I see
[00:20:33] <n1> but you wont have moved the story or done anything else to it
[00:20:23] <n1> it will then show up in the subs queue
[00:20:10] <n1> yeah, so you can write something there, and if you hit the update button
[00:19:38] <Xyem> Notes are in the "Editor's Notes" section?
[00:18:52] <n1> so if you've gone to the space x story, you'll see where notes would be, and you can preview the submission
[00:18:24] <n1> if a story has a note, click the button and read it before going ahead... it's generally how we discuss a story we have doubts about or needs extensive work before publishing
[00:17:09] <n1> actually, you can use the spacex sub for now
[00:16:26] <n1> i'll submit something for you to look at
[00:16:14] <n1> here you can look at all the submissions, in date order.
[00:14:57] <Xyem> Done.
[00:14:05] <n1> open the submissions page in a new tab
[00:13:28] <n1> in a perfect world, you want to see that page all green, with 12 hours of stories set to be released in the future... stories are spaced around 90 minutes usually
[00:13:27] <Xyem> Okay.
[00:11:36] <n1> the queue is in GMT/UTC, on the actual site the list is clearly split into different days, a bit easier on the eye.
[00:10:37] <n1> work in progress perhaps, site announcements
[00:10:17] <n1> the grey ones have been set so they wont go live
[00:09:51] <Xyem> Makes sense. What are the grey ones? One's not looked at at all?
[00:09:17] <n1> so in an ideal world, they would all be green... the policy is one editor picks a story from the submissions queue, and then before it goes to the main page, another editor will check it over and give the final sign off... but it will go live, even without a 2nd edit.
[00:08:00] <n1> the stories page you see, will be red green and yellow... red means it needs a second look, green is ready to go (probably), yellow is your own story that someone else needs a second look at
[00:07:08] <Xyem> Sounds good to me.
[00:06:32] <n1> since you're all set up already going to keep going in here, so if any other eds decide i missed something then they can inform you
[00:05:11] <Xyem> As far as I know, cloning is still expensive though, so perhaps not.
[00:04:30] <Xyem> RAIB?
[00:04:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> true, multiple redundant Bytrams
[00:03:55] <n1> TheMightyBuzzard, spare capacity is always useful
[00:03:44] * exec points at Bytram
[00:03:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~blame
[00:03:38] <Xyem> .. I didn't consider that. Oops.
[00:03:27] <n1> well we always need someone to blame everything on, so that could work out
[00:03:09] <Xyem> I shall become a cog in all of the machines, it's the best way to take ove... I mean, help the most.
[00:02:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> n1, i snagged him up as a dev before i even mentioned he wanted to edit. momma didn't raise no fool.
[00:01:58] <Xyem> Very colourful!
[00:00:44] <n1> if you're logged in on there, go to the stories page at the top menu