#editorial | Logs for 2017-03-22

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[00:09:32] <charon_> ~arthur b2d5e4
[00:09:34] <exec> 861 stories loaded
[00:09:34] <exec> attempting to submit story: "From backwards boards to king-flipping, Hollywood can’t get chess right"
[00:10:06] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[00:10:11] <exec> 860 stories loaded
[00:18:41] <charon_> ~submit http://digg.com
[00:18:43] <exec> └─ 13This Neural Network Lets You Generate Your Own Nightmare Cats - Digg
[00:19:20] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[00:29:33] <chromas> Digg's still around? keanu-reaves-whoa.gif
[00:37:23] <charon_> i thought the same thing
[01:27:20] <chromas> No comments. I thought that was the main feature before
[01:44:13] <charon_> i never visited, but i get the idea they were a proto-reddit. whatever they have transformed into is not that
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[13:27:30] mrpg is now known as SoyGuest21363
[13:28:07] <SoyGuest21363> well I didnt, it-s just that I dont remember my password. wait.
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[13:28:40] -!- mode/#editorial [+v SoyGuest21363] by Hephaestus
[13:29:13] <SoyGuest21363> ~
[13:32:08] <SoyGuest21363> how do i change my nick_ don-t make me google it, the internet is slooooow.
[13:33:43] SoyGuest21363 is now known as mrpg
[13:33:50] <mrpg> hehehe.
[13:34:40] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[13:35:34] <mrpg> I have here two messages for me from days ago, but I logged in at home and didn-t see them till today. And I think I used both thunderbird and pidgin.
[13:36:04] <mrpg> Hello, I-m looking for the mysql expert ??? it-s a utf 8 thing.
[13:37:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> mrpg, whatcha need?
[13:38:05] <mrpg> In 2007 I made a DB in iso-8859-1. Years later when utf-8 became the norm I changed it. The data was still in iso8859.
[13:38:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> how did you change it?
[13:39:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> just change the db or did you change all the tables as well?
[13:39:07] <mrpg> I found a command to change the data and it worked ok but it gives an error when I try to change a text field, because it has no length. It worked with varchar100
[13:39:16] * TheMightyBuzzard nods
[13:39:31] <mrpg> I changed DB and tables.
[13:39:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> mysqldump is going to be your friend here
[13:40:07] <mrpg> good, I make weekly backups.
[13:41:44] <mrpg> I found some cli commands to export data, change it with TR I think and then import it again, it didnt- work, though I dont remember what field I tried, varchar or TEXT.
[13:41:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> dump the entire db to a text file. go through the text file with search/replace and mark the db and every table as utf8 or utf8mb4. go in mysql and drop the existing database. import from the text file.
[13:42:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm. i'd need the specific error text then.
[13:43:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> and possibly to see the db schema.
[13:43:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> but it sounds like you were doing it the correct way.
[13:44:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> keep in mind there is a limit to how long a row can be in bytes and utf8 takes three bytes per character instead of one while utf8mb4 takes four bytes instead of one.
[13:45:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> which type of engine you are using will matter here
[13:45:37] <mrpg> I used utf8mb4. What worked was a SQL command, but it complained when i tried to change the medium text field.
[13:45:53] <mrpg> debian mysql5.5 I think, the one in stable.
[13:46:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> text is not going to give you problems. varchar will.
[13:47:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> on account of text/blob are not actually part of the row they're in.
[13:49:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> what engine are you using? innodb you can change the page size. https://www.percona.com
[13:49:16] <exec> └─ 13InnoDB page size - Percona Database Performance Blog
[13:49:43] <mrpg> well its old must be isam let me see
[13:50:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> mysql has a hard limit of 64KB per row though.
[13:53:21] <mrpg> Im using phpmyadmin it says myisam but the last row says innodb.
[13:53:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> we're currently still on utf8 for SN because of exactly this.
[13:53:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> what does the db dump say?
[13:54:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause you can use entirely different engines per table.
[13:57:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's much easier to find out from command line mysql
[13:57:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> show create table tablename;
[13:58:19] <mrpg> ok
[14:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh blarg, the innodb page size variable is a compile-time setting
[14:01:23] <mrpg> the table is myisam utf8
[14:02:30] <mrpg> the field i want to change is text latin1.
[14:02:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> um, you're not changing every field?
[14:02:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> for that table at least?
[14:04:48] <mrpg> I changed only the ones with special characters, spanish accents.
[14:07:39] * TheMightyBuzzard tests some stuff
[14:09:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, text fields are not a problem no matter how long they are.
[14:09:32] <mrpg> I used this with varchar fields and it worked http://pastebin.com
[14:09:34] <exec> └─ 13UPDATE people SET name = @txt WHERE char_length(name) = LENGTH(@txt := CONVERT( - Pastebin.com
[14:09:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> varchars are
[14:10:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> ugh
[14:11:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> that is some ugly-ass sql
[14:11:09] <mrpg> it converted latin1 to utf8 without problems. but the ALTER table game me the error.
[14:12:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, do not try doing alter table. dump to a file, adjust the file, drop the db or table, reimport.
[14:13:13] <mrpg> ok, then I will have to do a search and replace for every letter.
[14:13:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm...
[14:13:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i can see this being a pain in the ass.
[14:13:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> give me a few. need nicotine.
[14:14:56] <mrpg> I tried that, let me see if I cand find what I did.
[14:15:47] <mrpg> sounds like a fun way to practice sed/bash
[14:20:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, how about this: create a new table that's the same as the old but using the utf8mb4 columns. insert into new_table(select * from old_table); then drop old_table and rename new_table to old_table
[14:20:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> may or may not work. dunno
[14:20:54] <mrpg> this is what I did and didnt work>
[14:21:00] <mrpg> mysqldump --add-drop-table database_to_correct | replace CHARSET=latin1 CHARSET=utf8 | iconv -f latin1 -t utf8 | mysql database_to_correct
[14:21:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> hmm
[14:21:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> that should have worked except on varchar fields
[14:22:02] <mrpg> good, I-ll try that.
[14:23:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> do use utf8mb4 though. otherwise four-byte characters will get mangled.
[14:23:18] <mrpg> ok
[14:32:12] <mrpg> long time i dont mysql. mysql agrees: There is a chance that you may have found a bug in the SQL parser.
[14:36:33] <mrpg> take that bytram! hehehe
[14:43:57] <mrpg> ok, i did it, the second table has the same weird characters. ñ no go on the import.
[14:45:05] -!- n1 [n1!~n1@Soylent/Staff/Editor/n1] has joined #editorial
[14:45:05] -!- mode/#editorial [+v n1] by Hephaestus
[14:46:37] <n1> and i'm back online!
[14:46:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> yays!
[14:46:47] <mrpg> welcome
[14:46:49] <n1> 2 weeks without internet
[14:46:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake the internet
[14:46:59] * MrPlow smakes the internet upside the head with a one-sided die
[14:47:30] <n1> had to wait for a telegraph pole to be installed nearer the house
[14:47:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> ye gads
[14:48:04] <mrpg> Thank you TMB , i-ll rest for five minutes and then wil retry the iconv command. If not, then bash/sed or php
[14:48:15] <n1> but i have FTTP now!
[14:48:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> mrpg, did you try making a new table and copying the data via insert/select?
[14:49:00] <mrpg> im poor i only have ftp hehe
[14:49:21] <n1> lol
[14:49:42] <mrpg> yes, select from and insert
[14:50:52] <mrpg> INSERT INTO proyectos2 (descripcion) SELECT descripcion FROM proyectos WHERE codigo = 13
[14:52:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> mangled the text?
[14:53:55] <mrpg> the text is ok, the special characters are still garbage.
[14:54:04] <mrpg> same thing
[14:54:37] <mrpg> original table myisam new table innoDB
[14:55:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> INSERT INTO proyectos2 (descripcion) SELECT CONVERT(CAST(descripcion as BINARY) USING utf8) as descripcion FROM proyectos WHERE codigo = 13;
[14:55:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> try that
[14:55:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> stick with myisam
[14:57:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> might need to change that to utf8mb4. i dunno
[14:58:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway. i gotta go.
[14:59:12] <mrpg> well well well, spank my ass and call me charlie, that worked perfectly.
[14:59:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> booyah
[14:59:30] <mrpg> Thank you very much.
[14:59:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> welcome. now i may have to do that to our own shat.
[14:59:56] <mrpg> this served as practice
[15:01:00] <mrpg> somebody give karma to this man
[15:01:30] <mrpg> ~karma TheMightyBuzzard
[15:01:41] <mrpg> ~karma TheMightyBuzzard ++
[15:01:56] <mrpg> hm send me the manual i-ll do it
[15:02:02] <mrpg> ~karma TheMightyBuzzard++
[15:02:15] <mrpg> ~karma
[15:02:20] <mrpg> !karma
[15:02:20] <Bender> karma <item>
[15:02:37] <mrpg> !karma TheMightyBuzzard
[15:02:37] <Bender> karma of themightybuzzard is 6
[15:02:45] <mrpg> !karma TheMightyBuzzard ++
[15:02:45] <Bender> themightybuzzard ++ doesn't have karma yet.
[15:02:50] <mrpg> !karma TheMightyBuzzard++
[15:02:50] <Bender> themightybuzzard++ doesn't have karma yet.
[15:03:00] <mrpg> !karma + TheMightyBuzzard
[15:03:01] <Bender> + themightybuzzard doesn't have karma yet.
[15:03:24] <mrpg> ok wait
[15:07:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> bewbs++
[15:07:27] <Bender> karma - bewbs: 2
[15:09:26] <mrpg> TheMightyBuzzard++
[15:09:26] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 7
[15:09:37] <mrpg> aaah ok.
[15:09:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's channel-specific too btw
[15:10:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> !karma chameleon
[15:10:01] <Bender> chameleon doesn't have karma yet.
[15:10:17] <mrpg> ok
[15:10:35] <mrpg> !karma bender
[15:10:35] <Bender> bender doesn't have karma yet.
[15:10:45] <mrpg> :(
[15:11:19] <mrpg> why?? because he is mexican?>???????????? no wonder he wants to kill al humans
[15:12:50] * TheMightyBuzzard nods
[15:13:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, really gotta go now
[15:14:19] <mrpg> bye thanks
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[20:50:37] <n1> http://www.bbc.com
[20:50:39] <exec> └─ 13London attack: Four dead in Westminster terror incident - BBC News
[20:53:49] <chromas> from the cultural-enrichment dept
[20:57:10] <n1> i watched a al-jazeera video report on the incident... the comments were full of the 'religion of peace my ass... kill all the muslims' type comments
[20:57:58] <n1> which i can only assume were from americans... there are enough people still around in london who remember the IRA bombings
[21:02:51] <n1> also found it amusing that they're calling for people who have any footage of the attack, that happened in the most under surveillance part of the most under surveillance country in the world, it must have been caught on dozens of cctv cameras at least
[21:03:22] <chromas> cctv is racis, holmes
[21:04:32] <n1> i don't think they can do the 'none of the cctv was working that day' like they have done in the past
[21:07:25] <n1> but if there was any possibility that the UK would not get the same 'emergency service beacons' that are going to be mandated by the EU for all new vehicles in the coming years... that's gone now.
[21:12:57] <n1> and now there's reports some french school kids were injured... no doubt those immigrants are not taking up nhs resources from the real victims!
[21:17:05] <chromas> The real victims are the immigrants for being racissed against whenever an immigrant terrorists some people to death
[21:40:12] <takyon> kbkbbkbbjkjbkjbkjbjkjbkj
[21:47:48] <chromas> [flatulence]
[22:18:44] -!- charon_ [charon_!~0c0959f3@Soylent/Staff/Editor/charon] has joined #editorial
[22:18:44] -!- mode/#editorial [+v charon_] by Hephaestus
[22:27:18] <charon_> hiyo editorial
[22:29:21] <n1> charon_ !!
[22:30:25] <charon_> nick!
[22:30:33] <charon_> how goes it?
[22:30:48] <n1> it goes... finally back online after a couple weeks in the dark...
[22:30:59] <n1> how about for you?
[22:31:26] <charon_> it's alright. as we americans like to say: same shit, different day
[22:31:35] <n1> as mentioned in the backscroll i went from no internet to FttP!
[22:31:45] <n1> pretty advanced for south america
[22:31:48] <n1> :p
[22:32:11] <charon_> so is that never heard of it. is that high speed then?
[22:32:38] <n1> fttp = fibre to the premises
[22:33:06] <charon_> oooh, so very high speed. cool
[22:33:17] <charon_> pricey?
[22:33:22] <n1> i'm on the lowest plan right now, so it's actually decent value
[22:33:41] <n1> i was going to go for one of the top plans, but weirdly the sales assistant advised me against it, unless i need to upgrade later
[22:33:51] <n1> i can only assume they don't get commission
[22:34:58] <charon_> good to see you back. are other things settled in? furniture and all?
[22:34:59] <n1> it's only 30Mb/4Mb at the moment and a paltry 150GB data
[22:35:14] <charon_> oh, just 30/4. slacker
[22:35:29] <n1> could upgrade it to 150Mb/12Mb
[22:35:55] <n1> i'm making my own furniture, but i have enough for now.
[22:36:06] <n1> built a desk, bed and a small table
[22:36:49] <n1> had to buy appliances, but it wasn't too bad in the end
[22:37:16] <charon_> the appliances didn't come with the house?
[22:37:25] <n1> nope. this isn't 'merica
[22:37:31] <charon_> in the US they nearly always do
[22:37:41] <n1> none of the places i looked at did
[22:38:06] <n1> i even had to buy a water heater
[22:38:17] <n1> but weirdly, i do have A/C
[22:38:29] <n1> which i wont use, because electric is expensive.
[22:38:30] <charon_> interesting. so when you move you need to take it or sell it
[22:38:35] <n1> yup
[22:38:54] <n1> but as i'm considering buying some land and building a house down here, i'll need the shit anyways
[22:39:16] <charon_> is it cheaper to build anew than buy?
[22:39:21] <n1> yup
[22:39:40] <n1> i want somewhere fairly rural with some space
[22:40:54] <n1> i probably only spent about $500 on a stove, washing machine and a fridge
[22:41:27] <charon_> that's far cheaper than you could get in the US. good deal
[22:41:39] <n1> stove is gas, and a nice man on a moped/scooter comes to deliver/replace the gas bottle
[22:42:03] <n1> stuff is small and not the best, but it's perfectly serviceable for me... the stove itself was only $110.
[22:42:22] <n1> spent all the money on my transport
[22:43:25] <n1> so what ive saved on appliances, more than spent on getting a car.... it's about $40 a month for registration on the car.
[22:43:32] <charon_> !
[22:43:50] <n1> it would be cheaper if it was older... but as i think i explained before... the used car market is very odd here
[22:44:15] <charon_> plus gasoline, plus maintenance, plus insurance. is insurance mandatory?
[22:44:31] <n1> you have to spend at least $5k for a serviceable car, and it will be a shitbox with 150k on it from 1990.
[22:44:47] <n1> yup, gas is damn expensive too
[22:45:12] <n1> insurance is mandatory, you can get different levels... but it's actually about the same as my insurance on my UK car, it was less painful than i expected
[22:46:02] <n1> i filled it up the other day.... $90 for 15 US Gallons.
[22:46:18] <charon_> yowch
[22:46:30] <n1> but being from the UK, it's not really any different
[22:46:58] <n1> it used to cost me about $100 to fill up my car in the UK anyway.
[22:47:40] <charon_> when i had a gas car, it only cost me maybe 30-40 to fill, depending on if there was a war on
[22:48:15] <n1> it's a different experience though... my car now was registered in 2013... but it has no electric anything
[22:48:21] <n1> windows, mirrors, locking
[22:48:28] <n1> it has no airbags
[22:48:29] <n1> no abs
[22:48:41] <charon_> tell me it has seats?
[22:48:45] <n1> it has 2
[22:48:48] <charon_> yay
[22:49:13] <n1> https://upload.wikimedia.org
[22:49:57] <charon_> not bad looking. it's a pick-up in the back, i assume?
[22:50:10] <n1> yup
[22:50:50] <n1> it was either that or...
[22:50:51] <n1> https://upload.wikimedia.org
[22:51:32] <charon_> i think you chose correctly
[22:52:32] <n1> i mean there were other options, but it was chinese pickups
[22:52:56] <n1> or spending similar money on an older VW equivalent of what i have
[22:54:34] <n1> everything on it is super simple, so it should be easy enough to maintain, everything is accessible in the engine bay
[22:55:07] <n1> and with only 30k on it, it seemed like the right decision.
[22:55:12] <charon_> good point. withot the computerized crap, you can actually work on it
[22:55:55] <charon_> i more or less am satisfied with my car, but it's like a black box
[22:56:01] <n1> it was really weird, looking in the engine bay the first time... you can see everything and get to it...
[22:56:29] <n1> nothing like most cars now, hidden behind layers of plastic, have to take off body panels to access even simple things like bulbs
[22:56:46] <n1> Nissan Leaf, right?
[22:56:49] <charon_> yes
[22:57:16] <n1> aha, glad i remembered... almost went with a Chevy Bolt :p
[22:57:49] <n1> i'm guessing there's basically nothing you can service on your Leaf... but then there shouldn't really be anything you'd need to
[22:58:45] <charon_> true
[22:59:06] <charon_> but it's a complete mystery to me if something does break.
[22:59:25] <charon_> and i bet my local mechanic wouldn't know anything either
[22:59:29] <n1> get the nissan equivilant of the BSOD?
[22:59:59] <charon_> heheh. it would be a little red triangle light on the dash
[23:00:38] <n1> just made me think of a story i read a while ago, can't remember what car it was now.. but the manufacturer did an OTA update
[23:00:47] <n1> and when people came to start their cars in the morning, nothing...
[23:00:57] <n1> update was corrupted and bricked the car
[23:01:00] <charon_> nice. bricked the cars
[23:01:10] <charon_> hooray for the IoT
[23:01:27] <n1> i wish i could remember what the manufacturer was
[23:01:30] <n1> i want to say Lexus
[23:02:21] <n1> it's one of the big issues for me with the coming generation of EV's... lack of user serviceable parts and a maintenance network if you're just a little bit out of the way
[23:02:59] <charon_> yeah. but as you said, cars have moved in that direction for a while
[23:03:37] <n1> indeed, specifying EV's was wrong, but the trend certainly has the ability to accelerate with more widespread adoption of that
[23:03:48] <charon_> we ran a story a little while ago about farmers finding it impossible to service their tractors, because John Deere, et al. own the software
[23:04:21] <n1> i didn't see that one, but that really does surprise me
[23:04:55] <n1> but i guess if the agri-machine cartel all decided to go software lockdown together, the customers don't get a choice
[23:05:09] <charon_> yep
[23:06:00] <charon_> it was in the context of a state legislature about to vote on a bill to prevent the software lockout. i wonder how that went ...
[23:06:05] <n1> my car has an ECU, but where it's positioned gives me the impression it's essentially plug & play.... you can just pull it out and slot a new one in by all appearances.
[23:06:53] <n1> i can't see it going well
[23:07:44] <n1> corporate interests in the guise of 'health and safety' and other framing will win out over consumer choice and flexibility
[23:09:50] <charon_> of course. deep pockets
[23:10:59] <charon_> and, following up, the nebraska bill stalled, never even got voted on
[23:11:29] <n1> that;s the legislation you were talking about?
[23:11:32] <charon_> yes
[23:12:02] <n1> any reason on why it stalled?
[23:12:09] <charon_> there are similar bills in other states, but the nebraska one was the first to get close
[23:12:52] <charon_> seems each senator picks a bill to focus on for the session, and no one chose LB67
[23:13:02] <n1> hate to be cynical, but even if the legislation were to pass preventing software lockout
[23:13:07] <n1> there would still be exceptions no doubt
[23:13:19] <charon_> The bill’s sponsor, state senator Lydia Brasch, had already pledged to prioritize another piece of legislation. She had hoped another senator was going to take on Fair Repair as a priority but that senator did not act.
[23:14:06] <n1> 'attempts to override safety and emissions mechanisms' would be exempt from the software lockout is just how i imagine it going
[23:14:56] <charon_> this actually happened with cars about 15 years ago, and the small repair shops won
[23:15:23] <charon_> the shops didn't have computer gear to be able to talk to the engines for diagnosis
[23:15:55] <charon_> they had to fight one state at a time to get access to that information, instead of only the dealerships having it
[23:16:06] <charon_> so this is not at all a new thing or fight
[23:17:16] <charon_> the difference here is there's no good poster-child to use. with cars, you could point to all the small repair shops and their employees
[23:17:43] <charon_> with tractors it's "dumb-ass farmers" tinkering with stuff that might blow up
[23:19:59] <n1> yup
[23:20:24] <n1> did OBDII become standard in the US?
[23:21:18] <charon_> yes
[23:22:02] <charon_> a guy i work with does car repairs on the side and he has one of the readers. they are reasonably cheap
[23:24:20] <charon_> check that, they are super cheap. one on amazon for $17
[23:32:28] <n1> yeah, you can get them even cheaper
[23:32:36] <n1> i think i got a bluetooth one on ebay for about $10
[23:38:00] <charon_> there's a bluetooth dongle you can put in the port on my car that sends a ton of efficiency info to a smartphone. i don't use it because i don't have a smartphone.
[23:40:26] <n1> you have a EV but not a smartphone?
[23:44:05] <charon_> ayep
[23:44:08] <charon_> hate em
[23:45:15] <charon_> well, actually i do have one, was a gift. but i never use it. it's sitting on a shelf with a dead battery, never activated as a phone
[23:45:17] <n1> i like your style
[23:45:26] <charon_> lol
[23:47:35] <charon_> i see far too many people take out their phones and fiddle at the tiniest opportunity. i find them intrusive and often wildly rude
[23:49:14] <takyon> they find you old
[23:49:20] <takyon> get social!
[23:51:03] <charon_> pssh, i am no stranger to online interpersonal contact. but if you are sitting in a room with someone else, especially if they are a friend or spouse, be PRESENT with them
[23:51:51] <n1> very much so
[23:52:23] <n1> although i agree with takyon too... it only counts as being social if you have a record of it on your various social media timelines
[23:52:27] <n1> and photo evidence
[23:52:30] <charon_> lol
[23:52:34] <n1> if not, then were you really being social at all?
[23:52:50] <charon_> i have to rely on my poor old neurons