#editorial | Logs for 2017-01-14

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[00:00:40] <Bytram> nick: I see 177 submissions, total: select count(*) from submissions where uid = 993 ;
[00:01:26] <Bytram> takyon: you are 881?
[00:02:13] <Bytram> takyon: I see 1659 submissions for you. =)
[00:02:22] <Bytram> WOW!
[00:02:25] <nick> thanks Bytram
[00:02:28] <nick> wow indeed
[00:02:31] <nick> takyon++
[00:02:31] <Bender> karma - takyon: 42
[00:02:36] <Bytram> takyon++
[00:02:37] <Bender> karma - takyon: 43
[00:02:38] <charon_> hax
[00:03:02] <charon_> how come he's not on the HoF?
[00:03:30] * Bytram had a full copy of the source tree at one time on his local box; blew it away trying to get around a blown OS update - ran out of disk space. :(
[00:03:54] <nick> it would appear editors are excluded from submitters
[00:05:32] <nick> i miss lhsi submissions
[00:05:39] <Bytram> there is a specific line of code to exclude them, yes. I'd think that separate lists (1) authors-only and (2) without authors would be a better way of handling it
[00:05:49] <Bytram> lhsi?
[00:06:18] <nick> he has 400 comments on hof, but hasn't submitted anything in over a year at least i believe
[00:06:30] <nick> subs not comments
[00:07:55] <Bytram> is kinda coming back to me, but very fuzzy
[00:08:24] <Bytram> as is my brain atm... did not sleep terribly well last night
[00:08:39] <nick> it would appear you merged the last lhsi submission with an anontechie one
[00:09:30] <nick> https://soylentnews.org
[00:09:32] <Bytram> could well be... the more I think about it, a nap sounds like a really good idea atm
[00:09:33] <exec> └─ 13"Solving" Heads-up Limit Texas Hold ‘em Poker - SoylentNews
[00:09:48] <nick> get some rest Bytram
[00:10:02] <Bytram> nod nod... noddding off =)
[00:10:24] <Bytram> best to you all.
[00:10:33] * nick hat tip
[00:10:33] <Bytram> oh, wait.
[00:10:39] <takyon> oh wow I thought it was less than 1200
[00:10:48] <takyon> I guess I got confused by the annual cutoff
[00:10:53] <Bytram> #fite Hephaestus
[00:10:53] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[00:11:09] <MrPlow> #fite Hephaestus falls broken at Bytram's feet.
[00:11:22] <Bytram> #fite exec
[00:11:22] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[00:11:31] <MrPlow> #fite exec falls broken at Bytram's feet.
[00:11:49] <Bytram> #fite MrPlow
[00:11:49] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[00:12:03] <MrPlow> #fite MrPlow falls broken at Bytram's feet.
[00:12:18] <Bytram> #fite Loggie
[00:12:18] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[00:12:24] <MrPlow> #fite Loggie falls broken at Bytram's feet.
[00:12:26] <takyon> fite = cancer
[00:12:29] <Bytram> #fite aqu4
[00:12:29] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[00:12:33] <MrPlow> #fite aqu4 falls broken at Bytram's feet.
[00:23:28] <nick> i'm guessing there will be a nintendo submission soon
[00:26:06] -!- audioguy [audioguy!~audioguy@Soylent/Staff/Developer/audioguy] has joined #editorial
[00:27:22] <charon_> about the Switch?
[00:27:51] <nick> takyon, that el reg story is pretty good
[00:28:06] <nick> charon_, yeah
[00:30:51] <charon_> looks very cool to me. i haven't bought a console in 20 years, but i am thinking hard about it
[00:33:48] <nick> it has the potential to be the best thing nintendo has done in about 20 years
[01:05:05] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~crutchy@119.17.wmi.rzn] has joined #editorial
[02:07:51] -!- charon_ has quit [Quit: sniffing glue]
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[03:50:54] <Fnord666> ~gday charon
[03:50:56] * exec sneakily twerks an xml representation of false hope for charon
[03:51:24] <charon> ~gday Fnord666
[03:51:26] * exec dexterously connects a tcp stream of doughnuts to Fnord666
[03:51:40] <Fnord666> How goes it?
[03:51:45] <charon> hi diddly doodly, neighbor!
[03:52:16] <Fnord666> :)
[03:52:28] <charon> doing alright. watching simone giertz's latest shitty robot creation
[03:52:36] <charon> and yourself?
[03:52:50] <Fnord666> Good. Glad to be done with this week.
[03:53:08] <charon> long week, eh?
[03:53:14] <charon> overtime?
[03:53:46] <Fnord666> what's that? I'm salary so there's no such thing. :(
[03:54:18] <Fnord666> just a project brought in under a time crunch with a lot of stuff that needed to be decided by ther people.
[03:54:22] <charon> oh, so instead of extra hours giving you more money, they actually drive down your effective hourly rate
[03:54:29] <Fnord666> exactly
[03:55:06] <charon> hurry up and wait
[03:55:07] <Fnord666> Fortunately it's not a common occurrence like the famous death marches from game studios
[03:55:42] <Fnord666> naw I gave up on "hurry yp and wait" years ago.
[03:55:50] <charon> that's good. i am astounded people put up with that kind of bullshit
[03:56:11] <Fnord666> Depends on your situation I guess
[03:56:18] <charon> i guess
[03:57:18] <charon> not doing weekends though?
[03:57:19] <Fnord666> Unfortunately there are also too many people who are willing to take advantage of that fact, or so it seems.
[03:57:35] <Fnord666> Not normally on weekends unless I'm on call
[03:57:40] <charon> yay
[03:58:00] <Fnord666> But we are level 3 so it goes through several others before it hits us.
[03:58:34] <charon> if it reaches you, it's an actual emergency
[03:59:02] <Fnord666> correct. most times. :)
[03:59:06] <charon> heh
[03:59:17] <charon> my cupholder is broken
[03:59:30] <Fnord666> that sort of thing, yes.
[04:00:27] <charon> i always work sat and sunday, since my days off are during the week
[04:00:38] <Fnord666> That can have benefits too.
[04:01:14] <Fnord666> A lot of stuff I have to try to do during lunch cause things aren't open on the weekend
[04:01:40] <charon> yah, i can go to the mall when it's quiet if i want to
[04:01:47] <Fnord666> or the movies...
[04:02:13] <Fnord666> except on senior day
[04:02:51] <charon> psssh, you lying to the movie theater to get in cheap?
[04:04:06] <Fnord666> Some fresh kid sold me a senior ticket once. I was a bit peeved!
[04:04:14] <charon> lol
[04:05:02] <Fnord666> No I meant when seniors invade. IF the senior center bus is in the parking lot, find a different theater.
[04:05:12] <charon> ahhh, i see
[04:05:22] <Fnord666> They get cranky about the seats and they snore.
[04:05:41] <charon> lol, sounds like you speak from hard won experience
[04:06:15] <Fnord666> thought I had a whole theater to myself once until 3 min before previews.
[04:06:40] <Fnord666> first world problems, i know
[04:06:46] <charon> heh
[04:07:03] <charon> i try to show up late because i hate ads
[04:07:11] <Fnord666> sow how goes it with you?
[04:07:19] <Fnord666> so, not sow
[04:07:47] <Fnord666> It's a tradeoff between getting a semidecent seat and skipping ads
[04:07:51] <charon> fine. ordinary boring day at work.
[04:08:14] <charon> i keep meaning to go see rogue one, but by the end of the work evening, i just want to go home instead
[04:08:31] <Fnord666> Now I like trailers, but one theater by me show 7 or 8 of them. The movies starts 22-23 minutes after the lights go down.
[04:08:46] <Fnord666> That's a bit excessive to be
[04:08:48] <Fnord666> to me
[04:08:53] <charon> agreed
[04:08:57] <Fnord666> Rogue One is good I think.
[04:09:18] <charon> and ads beforehand. and exhortations to visit the snack bar
[04:11:35] <charon> did you go see hidden figures? you mentioned it the other day
[04:11:56] <Fnord666> not yet. probably Monday.
[04:12:15] <Fnord666> Been hearing a lot of good reviews
[04:12:32] <Fnord666> no work on Monday
[04:12:49] <charon> oh yeah, it's donald trump's birthday
[04:13:08] <Fnord666> something like that
[04:13:25] <Fnord666> although it seems like there's something else...
[04:13:57] <charon> something about chopping down a cherry tree?
[04:15:08] <Fnord666> With a little MLK Jr. tossed in for good measure.
[04:15:37] <Fnord666> Has your weather been as crazy as ours?
[04:15:53] <Fnord666> 25 one day and 72 the next?
[04:15:57] <charon> got up to 60 yesterday
[04:16:14] <charon> so not quite as weird, but still record setting
[04:16:43] <Fnord666> hmmm. Looks like an ice storm in the midwest
[04:16:53] <charon> hah, for real, i thought it was president's day. guess that one is in feb
[04:17:16] <charon> wonder why i have pres day and mlk day mixed up?
[04:17:50] <Fnord666> I was wondering about that, but hey..
[04:18:44] <charon> the video of Obama giving Biden the medal of freedom is so sweet
[04:18:55] <Fnord666> missouri and kansas are looking at 0.5" to 0.8" in of freezing rain/ice!
[04:19:01] <Fnord666> Oh yeah?
[04:19:08] <charon> https://www.youtube.com
[04:19:10] <Fnord666> For what?
[04:19:10] <exec> └─ 13President Obama Surprises VP Joe Biden With Presidential Medal Of Freedom - YouTube
[04:19:33] <charon> because they're pals
[04:19:39] <Fnord666> oh yeah.
[04:19:51] <Fnord666> I forgot that was the most important qualification.
[04:19:54] <charon> lol
[04:20:11] <charon> distinguished service over decades?
[04:20:29] <Fnord666> https://weather.com
[04:20:40] <Fnord666> Service to whom though?
[04:20:55] <charon> ice storms are nothing to mess around with. as a midwesterner i know this
[04:20:56] <Fnord666> I'll check it out.
[04:21:35] <Fnord666> Yep. Buddy of mine does telecom on the poles and has gone out to other states for weeks at a time helping them get civilization back.
[04:21:48] <Fnord666> I'll check out the video I mean
[04:22:53] <charon> i remember my first ice storm. went outside the next morning and couldn't walk a step without hanging onto something
[04:23:06] <charon> but the trees were lovely
[04:23:21] <Fnord666> The ones that the weight hasn't destroyed anyway.
[04:23:33] <charon> true
[04:23:35] <Fnord666> But yes
[04:24:08] <Fnord666> And going out is no joke. I remember the poor dog trying to get off the porch to go to the bathroom.
[04:24:56] <Fnord666> Finally just gave up and peed on the porch
[04:25:01] <Fnord666> the dog I mean
[04:25:08] <charon> lol
[04:25:26] <charon> i was pretty sure you didn't mean yourself
[04:25:57] <Fnord666> Just wanted to clarify in case
[04:26:22] <Fnord666> I would prefer to not have an ice storm like that any time soon.
[04:27:00] <charon> they don't seem to happen out here on the coast. at least not as often
[04:27:37] <Fnord666> That's good
[04:28:01] <Fnord666> The water circulates from the south, yes?
[04:28:07] <charon> i miss the awesome thunderstorms in summer. potential hurricanes are not the same
[04:28:15] <charon> yes
[04:29:05] <Fnord666> Midwest thunderstorms are definitely something to see and let you know just how small and crunchy you really are.
[04:29:27] <Fnord666> I'll pass on tornados though
[04:30:21] <charon> never had a tornado really close to me. plenty of warnings, but no strikes near me
[04:30:25] <Fnord666> although I'm actually a storm spotter in our region, so I do end up looking for them or signs that they might be forming.
[04:30:39] <charon> cool
[04:30:57] <Fnord666> Never been too close, but I've been through areas where they've touched down within hours after.
[04:31:19] <charon> trailer parks
[04:31:29] <Fnord666> Looks like mythbusters dropped a house from one of their cranes, but for a mile or so.
[04:32:11] <charon> when i was real little i thought it would be neat. as i got older i realize that was a very dumb idea
[04:34:17] <Fnord666> That's what kids do though.
[04:35:05] <charon> yep
[04:35:24] <charon> i was not gifted, all kids are kinda dumb
[04:37:59] <Fnord666> Not dumb, just naive
[04:38:34] <Fnord666> Most grow and learn
[04:39:29] <charon> so far so good. i did the growing part
[04:40:03] <Fnord666> lol
[04:40:38] <Fnord666> you're still alive so some of the learning must have happened too.
[04:42:02] <charon> must have...
[04:43:08] <Fnord666> Don't worry. In the end no one makes it out alive....
[04:44:26] <charon> you can't take it with you, so burn it up before you die
[04:46:18] <Fnord666> very true
[04:46:29] <charon> burn, i say!
[04:46:41] * charon spontaneously combusts
[04:46:56] <Fnord666> damn. there goes another editor
[04:47:46] <Fnord666> presumably you will return like a phoenix in a moment.
[04:47:58] <Fnord666> apparently takyon went on a story hunting spree at some point.
[04:48:02] * charon is reborn as a turkey
[04:48:30] <charon> yeah, he's been filling the queue the last few days
[04:49:44] <Fnord666> https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com
[04:49:46] <exec> └─ 13Bad Request
[04:49:53] <Fnord666> should pulls some interesting comments
[04:50:09] <Fnord666> OriginalOwner submitted
[04:50:46] <charon> i fear we are doing way too much politics lately. possibly more even than since i joined up
[04:51:00] <Fnord666> it's the season right now I think
[04:51:46] <Fnord666> It's politics, yet it's also geek related and security related and politics as it will related to security in the next few years
[04:51:56] <Fnord666> at least this story is.
[04:52:13] <charon> i guess with <3 years, there's nothing to compare it to
[04:53:25] <charon> this story is half funny for the schadenfreude, then half frightening because ultimately we are the targets
[04:53:45] <Fnord666> Yes
[04:56:19] <charon> apparently the gun story from a few days ago is still on fire
[04:56:31] <Fnord666> really? Which one?
[04:56:31] <charon> it's now the 4th most commented story ever
[04:56:39] <Fnord666> oh lordy.
[04:56:57] <charon> https://soylentnews.org
[04:56:58] <Fnord666> I was going to ask if there was a page for that but of course there is
[04:57:02] <exec> └─ 13Why Are Americans So Obsessed With Guns? - SoylentNews
[04:57:32] <charon> also: https://soylentnews.org
[04:57:34] <exec> └─ 13SoylentNews: Hall of Fame
[04:58:01] <Fnord666> 323 comments. That's serious.
[04:58:30] <Fnord666> Probably the number 1 story if you count the number of mod points spent.
[04:58:35] <charon> hah
[04:59:11] <charon> i haven't read it since it was new. i'm betting it's nastiness all over
[04:59:49] <Fnord666> Oh I'm certain of it.
[04:59:55] <nick> i'll be honest... read the headline when it came out, shook my head and left it at that
[05:00:53] <Fnord666> Probably the best idea. No one who is reading or commenting is going to be swayed by a few comments in a forum.
[05:01:21] <Fnord666> Godwin-ed in the first few comments as seen from the top
[05:01:22] <nick> and to be fair about it, if i hadn't edited it myself... i'd do the same for the 'military experts' story today
[05:01:38] <Fnord666> I wonder how many separate threads of discussion ended up Godwin'ed
[05:01:39] <nick> and we see how that turned out with 155 comments so far
[05:02:25] <Fnord666> must have missed today's. Time to check it out
[05:02:32] <charon> which reminds me, aristarchus is jussssst skirting the line on unfairly downvoting runaway
[05:02:42] <Fnord666> ah, the social experiments
[05:02:49] <nick> not the first time, wont be the last, charon
[05:02:58] * charon nods sadly
[05:03:30] <Fnord666> interesting re the downmodding
[05:04:00] <charon> i don't recall how it caught my attention, but i saw he had used 4 mods in a day to his runaway
[05:04:06] <charon> hit
[05:04:26] <Fnord666> got an example post
[05:04:52] <nick> well, runaway makes a lot of comments, especially on the social experiments story
[05:05:16] <nick> so even with 4 down mods, still not going to do much to change the overall conversation
[05:05:39] <Fnord666> But are they "bad" comments within the framework of the moderation guideline por does he just disagree with them?
[05:05:52] <charon> https://soylentnews.org
[05:05:55] <exec> └─ 13SoylentNews Comments | Dell's Latest Laptop is $100 Cheaper If You Buy It With Ubuntu
[05:06:05] <charon> here's one that he did off topic when it is not
[05:06:33] <Fnord666> And as long as he's not downmodding with additional shill accounts
[05:06:50] <charon> this one is troll when it is not https://soylentnews.org
[05:06:52] <exec> └─ 13SoylentNews Comments | Trump and Sessions Plan to Restrict H-1B Workers. Hyderabad Says to Bring It On.
[05:07:04] <nick> it's said when a comment that uses a phrase such as 'nazi shitfucks' gets insightful mods
[05:07:08] <charon> so yeah, they are bad mods
[05:07:11] <nick> sad even
[05:07:53] <nick> that troll one is bullshit
[05:09:02] <Fnord666> yep
[05:09:07] <Fnord666> both are well spotted as BS
[05:09:11] <charon> there's not even enough to hang a disagree mod on
[05:09:15] * nick mods it interesting
[05:09:47] <nick> i only modded it interesting for: "Hard working young people these days seem to balance two or three jobs at the same time."
[05:10:05] <Fnord666> fair enough
[05:10:45] <charon> oh shit
[05:11:02] <charon> i meant to hit underrated but did over because i can't read
[05:11:03] <Fnord666> yes?
[05:11:12] <Fnord666> lol
[05:11:21] <Fnord666> does posting undo the mod?
[05:11:27] <charon> nope
[05:11:37] <charon> can't re-mod the right way either
[05:11:39] <nick> like my opinion on many of runaway's thoughts... while i agree in general he often misses or avoids a wider context to the situation, relying to fall back on cultural memes
[05:11:54] <Fnord666> would you look at that. Some wanker modded it overrated....
[05:12:08] * charon is dumb
[05:12:28] <Fnord666> nah you just got the sign reversed. Happens all the time
[05:12:45] <charon> they are next to each other in the dropdown
[05:13:22] <nick> clicking around like a madman so excited to dispense your mod point justice
[05:13:55] <Fnord666> to be fair, you have to click that second "moderate" button. The dropdown doesn't commit it.
[05:13:58] <charon> i just wanted to be cool like you guys
[05:14:21] <Fnord666> eh, it's probably about right now
[05:14:21] <charon> yes fnord, please continue to point out my stupidity
[05:14:30] <nick> Fnord666 makes the same point without being dramatic about it
[05:15:29] <charon> he's very diplomatic
[05:15:42] <Fnord666> oh lordy
[05:16:08] <Fnord666> just the other day someone also claimed that I speak "auditor"
[05:16:39] <charon> like tax auditor?
[05:17:19] <Fnord666> compliance
[05:17:44] <charon> sounds uncomplimentary
[05:18:04] <nick> just makes me think of the futurama bureaucrats thing
[05:18:19] <Fnord666> it can be or it can be from someone who would very much prefer that you spent your day with the auditors rather than him
[05:20:41] <charon> when being chased by a bear, you don't have to run faster than the bear. you only have to be faster than your friend
[05:20:55] <Fnord666> my thoughts exactly
[05:21:27] <Fnord666> and so true
[05:21:51] <Fnord666> That's why I hang around with out of shape people. In case of zombies
[05:21:56] <charon> lol
[05:22:39] <nick> good thinking
[05:26:31] <Fnord666> It's an evolving survival plan.
[05:27:51] <charon> http://www.youtube.com
[05:27:53] <exec> └─ 13re: Your Brains - YouTube
[05:28:24] <charon> video is dumb, but the song is pretty damned funny
[05:37:44] <Fnord666> ok that was pretty good
[05:37:56] <Fnord666> catchy melody too
[05:38:20] <charon> yep, find myself humming it now and then
[05:39:52] <Fnord666> well that has to be an interesting conversation starter
[05:40:31] <Fnord666> ok how did it get to be going on 1am?
[05:40:49] <Fnord666> I will bid you both good night
[05:40:54] <Fnord666> ~gnight nick
[05:40:55] * exec hurriedly offers a spool of white privilege to nick
[05:40:58] <Fnord666> ~gnight charon
[05:40:59] * exec historically instantiates a handful of SQL injection for charon
[05:41:04] <charon> ~gnight Fnord666
[05:41:05] * exec implicitly culturally appropriates 40 gallons worth of Beer-brand beer from Fnord666
[05:41:27] <charon> the answer: scintillating conversation
[05:41:28] <nick> g
[05:41:31] <nick> g'night Fnord666
[05:41:57] <Fnord666> good point. night.
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[11:11:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> #fite Hephaestus
[11:11:19] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[11:11:24] <MrPlow> #fite Hephaestus falls broken at TheMightyBuzzard's feet.
[13:18:03] -!- crutchy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[15:02:57] <Bytram> ~tell janrinok wow! congrats on passing 3300 stories posted!
[16:39:27] * Bytram notices poll is quite old... is adding a new one to release 2017-01-15 12:00:00 -- please take a look.
[16:39:50] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[16:39:55] <exec> └─ 13SoylentNews Poll | What is your favorite story arc? ...
[18:15:05] <Fnord666> #fite charon
[18:15:05] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[18:15:17] <MrPlow> #fite Fnord666 falls broken at charon's feet.
[18:25:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> #fite Hephaestus
[18:25:19] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[18:25:36] <MrPlow> #fite Hephaestus falls broken at TheMightyBuzzard's feet.
[18:57:35] <takyon> I thought this was a troll until I clicked through to the Science article: https://soylentnews.org
[18:57:36] <exec> └─ 13Error
[18:59:38] <takyon> should we change the dept?
[19:14:28] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #editorial
[19:14:28] -!- mode/#editorial [+v janrinok] by Hephaestus
[19:15:53] <janrinok> ~tell Bytram good to see you are making a recovery - hope to chat to you soon
[19:17:40] -!- nick [nick!~nick@Soylent/Staff/Editor/n1] has joined #editorial
[19:17:40] -!- mode/#editorial [+v nick] by Hephaestus
[19:17:54] <janrinok> ~gday nick
[19:17:55] * exec carefully derives a hooker full of Johnny Moo Milk Drops from nick
[19:18:37] <nick> ahoy-hoy janrinok
[19:19:28] <janrinok> how's things?
[19:20:19] <nick> not too bad, although my host has just found out they have to work double shifts for the next two weeks... so they're not so happy
[19:20:40] <janrinok> not surprised - does that mean you are being left to your own devices too?
[19:20:55] <nick> yeah
[19:21:38] <nick> doesn't make any difference to me, just going to try and help out more and make it easier with me being here
[19:21:57] <janrinok> still got plenty of snow to shift?
[19:23:01] <nick> just looked out the window, there's a car in a driveway across the street
[19:23:10] <nick> the snow bank is up at least 3ft above the roof of the car
[19:23:15] <janrinok> lol
[19:23:31] <nick> but it's not snowing right now
[19:23:35] <nick> so that's something
[19:23:45] <nick> but the weather is supposed to be getting a little warmer, which is not good
[19:23:55] <janrinok> any ideas when you move on again?
[19:23:56] <nick> warm enough for the snow to melt and refreeze and make things worse
[19:24:11] <nick> i
[19:24:16] <nick> i'm here for another 3 weeks
[19:24:19] <takyon> what is the point of #fite. it's dumb
[19:24:26] <janrinok> agreed
[19:24:30] <janrinok> ~gday takyon
[19:24:32] * exec ceremoniously farts a linked list of beans & rice at takyon
[19:24:45] <takyon> so close to home
[19:24:54] <nick> takyon, no idea, i believe it's TMB's creation
[19:26:00] <janrinok> I'm not sure if there is a connection, but it appeared when people were becoming polarised during the build-up to the US election. Might just be a coincidence though
[19:27:04] <janrinok> I think TMB knows it annoys some people which is why it now outputs much of the detail on its own chan, but I wish the bot would move there also
[19:27:17] <nick> can't ever miss an opportunity to promote violence as a solution or distraction to our problems.
[19:27:20] <nick> :p
[19:27:32] <janrinok> being on the main chan for any new arrivals doesn't portray us in the best light
[19:27:51] <nick> janrinok, you have a good point there
[19:29:39] <janrinok> takyon - you've posted some very good subs this week, thanks.
[19:30:11] * janrinok means they are always good, but takyon has been unusually prolific
[19:30:37] <nick> Bytram did a check on the db and apparently takyon has done 1700 subs in total
[19:31:44] <janrinok> that's a hell of a submission total
[19:34:53] <nick> it's very impressive, especially with the typical quality
[19:34:59] <janrinok> yup
[19:36:32] * nick drinks from his 710ml can of Monster energy drink
[19:36:49] <janrinok> ah the old 'swimming pool' size
[19:37:07] <nick> it even has a cap, which is pretty useful
[19:37:19] <janrinok> to stop people falling in?
[19:37:46] <nick> maybe
[19:38:37] <janrinok> if I drank that, I would be up half the night going for a pee! Although beer doesn't do that to me ...? go figure...
[19:38:42] <takyon> I drank the coffee
[19:38:51] <janrinok> wise choice
[19:40:39] <nick> not usually drink coffee?
[19:41:01] <takyon> I usually drink unsweetened iced tea
[19:41:16] <takyon> I need coffee to get amped now. I got a french coffee press recently
[19:42:25] <janrinok> does it keep you awake at night
[19:42:27] <janrinok> ?
[19:46:48] <janrinok> ...perhaps he fell asleep :)
[19:54:46] <janrinok> gtg - maybe see you all tomorrow
[19:54:51] <janrinok> ~gnight nick
[19:54:52] * exec flatulantly pairs a sacful of chocolate chips with nick
[19:54:56] <janrinok> ~gnight takyon
[19:54:57] * exec defiantly nudges an overflowing chest of fat chick toward takyon
[19:55:16] <takyon> night
[19:55:25] <takyon> might be the best gnight yet
[19:55:33] <janrinok> lol
[19:55:42] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[19:56:58] <nick> that was a good one
[20:44:41] <Fnord666> Hey nick, takyon
[20:44:49] <takyon> yea
[20:44:56] <Fnord666> how are you today?
[20:45:00] <takyon> alright
[20:45:03] <Fnord666> just saying hi
[20:45:17] <Fnord666> Thanks a ton for all the subs lately
[20:48:59] <takyon> no problem
[20:49:04] <nick> it's almost like the community doesn't understand how stories end up on the site
[20:49:14] <takyon> got tired of all the political crap
[20:49:55] <nick> on the political crap, i enjoyed your Comey journal post
[20:50:25] <Fnord666> takyon - it was getting a bit heavy
[20:50:31] <takyon> the journal is where that stuff belongs
[20:52:03] <Fnord666> I'm still trying to get a feel for the balance that we want to achieve/present
[20:52:13] <nick> it's not always easy to discern the line from where something goes from being purely political grandstanding to news.
[20:53:36] <nick> and there is almost always a political element to anything news
[20:54:06] <nick> at least when it's not concerning a press release about the latest version of some consumer tech
[20:54:10] <Fnord666> If the source of the news has something to gain from its presentation then sure, that's easy to spot
[20:54:31] <nick> Fnord666, the source nearly always has something to gain
[20:54:31] <Fnord666> but when it's two or three levels removed...
[20:55:08] <Fnord666> I guess maybe I mean the reporting agency...
[20:56:02] <nick> well as basically all 'reporting agencies' are for corporations who need to make a profit, it's not an easy line to draw
[20:57:51] <nick> http://www.businessinsider.com
[21:00:01] <nick> ignoring the wearing the bias on your sleeve from Fox News... News Corp is extremely good at crafting the narratives and never missing an opportunity to promote sister-companies new products/services
[21:01:14] <Fnord666> of course that's 4 years old also
[21:02:27] <Fnord666> That lsit is less that 20% of the media my kids consume these days for example
[21:02:36] <Fnord666> they are in the 16-21 yr old bracket
[21:02:59] * Fnord666 adds lsit to autohotkey corrections
[21:03:25] <nick> what are the primary sources for your kids
[21:04:56] <nick> but things have indeed changed over the last few years, it's different, not necessarily better.. there's even more profit focus in media now than before and the majority of that media is entertainment rather than information
[21:05:08] <Fnord666> youtube, twitch, indie bands that publish directly,one or two music streaming companies
[21:05:27] <Fnord666> very true nick
[21:05:44] <nick> i watch a lot of youtube, but this is kind of what you mentioned before, being two or three steps removed
[21:06:10] <nick> the youtube creators are generally working from primary sources/products where those 'big 6' have a hand in
[21:06:34] <Fnord666> six degrees of kevin bacon?
[21:06:40] <nick> look at how much people put into patreon campaigns for let
[21:06:49] <nick> let's players and other gaming things
[21:07:03] <nick> vs how much they put in for supporting independent journalists and researchers
[21:07:11] <Fnord666> in other words, if you follow enough connections, sure it will get to the big 6 at some point
[21:07:42] <Fnord666> and the number of connections, like the birthday paradox, is much lower than most people think
[21:07:49] <nick> there is a lot of opportunity in the new media landscape for truly independent entertainment and journalism
[21:08:13] <Fnord666> yes there is
[21:08:14] <nick> but from my own observations, it's opportunity that's not being seized in any meaningful way
[21:09:07] <nick> it's not an exciting prospect to pay for boring/depressing but important information
[21:09:12] <nick> we want our escapes damn it
[21:09:49] <Fnord666> of the film that I have watched over the past year, at least 33% have been productions by independent studios or filmmakers.
[21:10:19] <Fnord666> Which isn't a bad start
[21:10:26] -!- charon_ [charon_!~0c0959f3@Soylent/Staff/Editor/charon] has joined #editorial
[21:10:26] -!- mode/#editorial [+v charon_] by Hephaestus
[21:10:41] <Fnord666> but in the end people do have to make a living wage also
[21:11:24] <charon_> ~gday editorial
[21:11:25] * exec cantankerously writes a fanfic featuring a cheap plastic cup of terrorists about editorial
[21:11:36] <nick> it's a lot easier to make a living wage if you keep commercial sponsors on side
[21:11:45] <Fnord666> ~gday charon_
[21:11:46] * exec implicitly sets a dash of tama lama ding dongs by charon_
[21:12:09] <nick> i look at the site we're on now as an example... we don't track, don't have ads or sponsorships, 100% community funded and supported.... something you'd think people want
[21:12:24] <Fnord666> that is true and their influence can be insidious
[21:12:27] <nick> but we're not growing at an appreciable rate, we don't have a marketing campaign and budget
[21:13:03] <nick> in pure numbers terms, i'm sure we'd do a lot better if we played the game, but we're not and we're getting the rewards from being outside of that system... a sense of moral high ground.
[21:13:06] <Fnord666> or blatant
[21:13:15] <nick> howdy, charon_
[21:13:51] <charon_> the kind of community we attract is made up of the people who look at marketing with suspicion
[21:13:58] <charon_> or disdain
[21:14:38] <nick> but how much are we really attracting, the site isn't and hasn't grown from my observations
[21:14:54] <nick> i
[21:14:57] <Fnord666> do we report the max UID by month
[21:15:02] <Fnord666> ?
[21:15:15] <nick> i'm pretty sure we have only get new users if someone happens to read a comment on /.
[21:15:20] <Fnord666> disregarding the one and done spam registrations?
[21:15:33] <nick> otherwise, i don't think we're really getting new community
[21:15:50] <nick> you can check the max uid on one of the bots
[21:15:58] <charon_> true. but i guess i am saying any kind of advertising will not get us the ... i hesitate to say this but, the right people
[21:16:22] <nick> it's always going up, but you have people like charon_ who lurked for a long time before getting a registered user
[21:16:24] <Fnord666> 4chan refugees?
[21:16:36] <nick> charon_, i don't disagree at all
[21:17:07] <nick> but that's the situation we're in... we have a great website and platform which i really like
[21:17:13] <charon_> heh, if 4chan ever decided we're worth messing with... eww
[21:17:17] <nick> but we have no way of reaching out to the wider world about it
[21:17:33] <nick> and if we did, the chances are it would damage the overall value of the side
[21:17:34] <nick> site
[21:18:00] <Fnord666> I guess the question boils down to what does SoylentNews want to be?
[21:18:18] <Fnord666> In an ideal world, what would SN look like?
[21:18:35] <nick> i think we want to be what we are already, but it doesn't appear to be scalable without changing what we are
[21:19:17] <charon_> i see it as wanting to be like /. from 15 years ago
[21:19:33] <Fnord666> That comparison comes to my mind as well.
[21:19:49] <nick> and with that comes a rose-tinted view of the situation
[21:19:52] <nick> selective memories
[21:20:07] <charon_> small enough to still be a community, large enough to handle diverse views
[21:20:34] <Fnord666> the second point is important.
[21:20:38] <nick> and just from a quick google, even 15 years ago /. was a corporate entity worth million(s) of dollars
[21:20:48] <Fnord666> otherwise it's just an echo chamber
[21:20:51] <charon_> well, that was an arbitrary number
[21:21:11] <nick> well yeah, but my point is... to be /. from the golden age or whatever
[21:21:15] <nick> they still played the game
[21:21:21] <nick> which i am not suggesting we do
[21:22:13] <nick> .... /. was founded in late 97 and got sold for $8.5m in 99
[21:22:26] <charon_> wow. we're behind schedule
[21:22:43] <nick> obviously different times and such, but that is very different from how we're managing and the general consensus of the vision for the site
[21:22:49] * charon_ hides from nick's inevitable smake
[21:23:43] <nick> they made 18k in year one, sold for the millions in year two.... we're not running an operation that has that kind of potential for investment
[21:23:58] <nick> those investments were made by people seeking returns, directly or indirectly
[21:24:06] <charon_> yah
[21:24:15] <charon_> and it seems like all we can do to break even
[21:24:32] <nick> all those years later, we're just about getting $6k from the community to keep things ticking over
[21:26:34] <Fnord666> Was this site founded with the idea of repeating /. success? Did anyone believe that?
[21:26:53] <nick> well if you go back to Barrabas, then yes
[21:27:04] <charon_> i am not privy to what the vision of the site was at the beginning, but i have noticed that some of the big names from the founding days are no longer around
[21:27:24] <charon_> even NC only pops in for a few minutes a couple times a month
[21:27:42] <charon_> into IRC, that is. again, i have no clue about other things
[21:27:50] <Fnord666> Ah well that's interesting then
[21:27:55] <nick> the site was originally founded to generate a RoI for the first person who put up the money/founded the site
[21:28:26] <nick> but that wasn't going to fly and Barrabas(?) left and everyone re-evaluated what the site was going to be
[21:28:50] <Fnord666> be interesting to see the business case behind how that was going to happen, but I digress.
[21:29:28] <nick> there wasn't much of a plan, but there was a strong for-profit focus from the initial investor
[21:29:58] <charon_> i've read the logs from the "revolt". barrabas seemed like a real dick
[21:30:14] <Fnord666> Ah. I was not here either during the early days.
[21:31:12] <Fnord666> I am but a poor /. refugee, a victim of the beta wars.
[21:31:40] <Fnord666> and much happier to have arrived here though.
[21:31:51] <nick> well that was how the site came into being
[21:32:16] <nick> and i don't think it was wrong to assume there was some money to be made over the vocal discontent the /. community was having at the time
[21:32:51] <nick> but really didn't understand the demographics of the situation
[21:33:38] <Fnord666> That happens in business
[21:33:52] <nick> heh, i know that all too well!
[21:33:58] <Fnord666> but i'm sure you know that more than most nick
[21:34:10] <Fnord666> :)
[21:34:32] <takyon> grilling
[21:34:52] <Fnord666> must be nice
[21:35:00] <Fnord666> my grill is iced shut I think
[21:35:13] <nick> as someone who has a strong moral compass, it's pretty hard to make a profitable business whilst trying to keep that sense of morality
[21:35:58] <nick> and when your business is just information and how you choose to present it... i think it must be almost impossible to do the objective right and transparent thing, whilst keeping fed and a roof over your head
[21:36:23] <Fnord666> If it's no longer possible to run a profitable business without sacrificing your moral standard, then what the hell?
[21:36:40] <charon_> hire a sociopath to do the lying for you.
[21:36:52] <Fnord666> oh yeah, i forgot.
[21:36:55] <nick> to be fair, it's not even easy to make a profitable business whilst ignoring it
[21:37:12] <nick> look at all these multibillion dollar tech companies that have never turned a profit and are always seeking new funding
[21:37:24] <nick> and they don't give no fucks
[21:37:52] <nick> but they're successful businesses to emulate now, over the last 15 years the business world has changed a lot
[21:38:13] <Fnord666> yeah, it's the 99% like that that give the 1% trying to give it a real go a bad name.
[21:38:47] <nick> it's all about new gimmicks and ways of packing existing products to extract more revenue for longer
[21:38:51] <charon_> companies like that baffle me. they do nothing, make no profit, but are worth billions on paper
[21:39:12] <nick> the rise of everything on a '$x a month!' subscription is the most obvious in that
[21:39:15] <charon_> or worse, are liars like the blood testing thing
[21:39:28] <nick> there's now nothing you can't buy/lease on a monthly subscription
[21:40:45] <nick> i wonder how much the 'loot crate' industry is worth now... because apparently buying dvds and posters is now too much hard work for people, and they'd rather subcontract that out
[21:40:49] <Fnord666> breaking into an existing market is a huge challenge.
[21:41:13] <Fnord666> easier to leverage new technologies and reinvent the market with you leading the way.
[21:41:46] <nick> creating a new market is no easier now, since as soon as you get word out to try and develop a business, someone else has the ear of a VC and will get the funding you'd like before El Reg even sees the press release you emailed them
[21:41:57] <Fnord666> But it's been curated for your specific interest!
[21:42:19] <nick> being first to market has never been more difficult, in my opinion
[21:42:54] <nick> and when you're competing in a global market place against people with no ethical code, it's impossible with anything of tangible value
[21:43:24] <Fnord666> True. knockoffs of your designs will hit the shores before your first order gets delivered.
[21:44:33] <nick> i don't know if you saw the conversation the other day about the pizza company?
[21:44:36] <Fnord666> and large scale retailers have no qualms selling them
[21:44:47] <Fnord666> I did. :)
[21:45:09] <nick> but that's a good example of how bullshit the current new business climate is
[21:45:18] <Fnord666> I'm thinking about picking up some liquidation pizza ovens in a coupla eyars.
[21:45:23] <nick> a stupid idea, in the right place, has a patent and millions in VC funding
[21:45:42] <nick> can you remember what the company was called?
[21:46:28] <Fnord666> Zume Pizza maybe?
[21:47:02] <nick> i found it
[21:47:18] <nick> but here's an interesting little bit... the CEO of Zume Pizza
[21:47:31] <nick> was president of Zynga Studios for a year before
[21:47:39] <charon_> hahahahah
[21:47:44] <nick> and worked at Microsoft for years before that
[21:47:52] <Fnord666> So no moral anything to stand in the way.
[21:48:05] <Fnord666> it just keeps getting better
[21:48:27] <nick> started out as a software engineer at EA, but went on to become a busy boy at MS before becoming president of Zynga
[21:48:33] <nick> then created Zume
[21:49:04] <Fnord666> Dot Com 2.0
[21:49:31] <nick> was general manager of Xbox LIVE then went onto be GM of Xbox music, video and advertising
[21:49:58] <Fnord666> busy fella
[21:50:14] <charon_> man, zynga is practically the poster child of unethical tech companies
[21:50:15] <nick> so that friendly little pizza start-up that the cool kids are into....
[21:50:44] <Fnord666> sounds like just the right guy to seel an idea like that to VC for millions
[21:50:57] <Fnord666> s/seel/sell/
[21:50:59] <exec> <Fnord666> sounds like just the right guy to sell an idea like that to VC for millions
[21:51:14] <nick> my point being, you don't come from nowhere and then get millions in funding for your pizza delivery company
[21:51:22] <nick> just because you had a neat idea and a patent
[21:51:44] <Fnord666> a very valid point.
[21:52:07] <charon_> i know a guy who knows a guy
[21:52:14] <Fnord666> that goes back to charon's point about hiring a sociopath....
[21:52:52] <Fnord666> But at what point does the whole thing turn into fraud?
[21:53:17] <Fnord666> actual criminal activity?
[21:53:40] <Fnord666> which leads us to kickstarter and indiegogo campaigns
[21:53:41] <Fnord666> ...
[21:53:53] <charon_> indiegogo more so, but yeah
[21:54:07] <charon_> kickstarter at least has some safeguards
[21:54:13] <nick> you can do a lot of shady and unethical shit without crossing the line into criminal activity
[21:54:27] <nick> and if scale quick enough and have enough lawyers, it doesn't even matter then
[21:54:33] <nick> look at uber and airbnb for examples of that
[21:55:02] <nick> they got so big, so quick, with so much money invested... governments had to work with them to change the laws to make sure they could continue doing business
[21:55:07] <Fnord666> you mean uber isn't just a way to find a guy going the same direction you're going and sharing the cost?
[21:56:18] <nick> if you or me, started up an uber equivalent with an app and a website, how long do you think it would take before we're shut down for breaking all sorts of regulations and employment/contractor laws
[21:57:46] <nick> https://en.wikipedia.org
[21:57:46] <Fnord666> gentlemen, I apologize but I have to get going. I didn't realize the time.
[21:57:47] <exec> └─ 13Uber protests and legal actions - Wikipedia
[21:57:52] <nick> take care Fnord666
[21:57:54] * nick hat tip
[21:58:18] <Fnord666> you too nick
[21:58:24] <Fnord666> ~gnight charon_
[21:58:25] * exec sardonically planks a mighty bundle of chocolate chips for charon_
[21:59:18] <charon_> gnight Fnord666
[22:00:53] <nick> how is charon_ today
[22:00:59] <charon_> so if we get a sponsorship deal from soylent (meal replacement) we could make big money!
[22:01:39] <charon_> i am well. food delivery arrived a bit ago, so i am eating pork with bamboo shoots atm
[22:01:52] <charon_> and yourself?
[22:02:08] <nick> nice...
[22:02:12] <nick> hungrier now
[22:02:32] <nick> just a fyi... Soylent has received 22.42M in funding so far
[22:03:32] <charon_> lol, sorry
[22:05:44] <nick> think it's going to be 'taquitos' for me
[22:06:26] <charon_> the quotes make it sounds very suspect
[22:06:54] <nick> they're good, i'd just never heard of them until a couple weeks ago
[22:07:14] <charon_> at least it's spelled right
[22:07:26] <nick> https://e22d0640933e3c7f8c86-34aee0c49088be50e3ac6555f6c963fb.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com
[22:08:00] <charon_> mexican pocky
[22:08:18] <nick> i have somehow lost my seat on the couch to the damn cat again
[22:11:00] <charon_> heh, cats are very good at thatr
[22:11:27] <charon_> and somehow stretch out to fill the whole seat
[22:11:59] <nick> i try to encourage him to move, he pushes against my hand and starts licking it
[22:12:51] <charon_> awwww
[22:13:18] <nick> he's the most affectionate cat i've ever met
[22:13:20] <charon_> only the firm approach works with cats. pick up and remove
[22:14:18] <charon_> i've had cats most of my life, i know their ways
[22:14:25] <nick> it's kind of funny, he'll let me pick him up and carry him around and he does nothing, just takes it
[22:14:50] <nick> considering he's only known me for a short while, it only took a day or two for him to trust me
[22:15:01] <nick> i
[22:15:08] <nick> i'm more a dog kind of person
[22:15:41] <nick> had them all my life and will always
[22:16:24] <takyon> cats 4evur nyan
[22:16:33] <charon_> i like some dogs i've met, but never had one of my own
[22:17:49] <nick> i've met a lot of cool cats recently, so i don't have anything against them now
[22:18:01] <nick> they're not all assholes
[22:18:36] <charon_> heh
[22:19:39] <nick> good people can be terrible dog owners
[22:19:46] <nick> which is the problem with many dogs
[22:20:58] <charon_> yep. the problem with pit bulls is almost all caused by stupid owners who don't train them
[22:23:04] <nick> yup
[22:23:24] <takyon> I grilled some pork loins marinated in orange sauce
[22:23:29] <takyon> (failed marmalade)
[22:23:52] <nick> even if they are reasonably trained, if they don't get enough exercise and stimulation, becomes more likely to snap
[22:24:04] <charon_> takyon: that sounds super good. i'll be over in an hour
[22:24:16] <nick> sounds good indeed, but orange sauce deserves duck
[22:25:01] <takyon> pork is cheep and gud
[22:25:20] <nick> this is true
[22:25:42] <nick> i spent most of my life without knowing what good pork was like
[22:26:08] <nick> i dont trust most people to cook it right
[22:26:49] <takyon> I'm no master chef but I'm getting better
[22:26:51] <takyon> https://soylentnews.org
[22:26:53] <exec> └─ 13Error
[22:26:55] <charon_> the spanish know what to do with pork
[22:27:09] <charon_> i love jamon serrano
[22:27:23] <takyon> i made pulled pork the other week. that was fantastic
[22:27:32] <takyon> ^ headline should probably be changed from "NAS" to "National Academies".
[22:27:58] <takyon> It took a while for me to figure out what to call them, but I think that's reflected on the wikipedia article
[22:28:50] <nick> ok
[22:29:11] <nick> updated
[22:29:46] <takyon> thanks
[22:30:01] <takyon> still looks awkward, so we can expect a visit from wonkey_monkey
[22:30:11] * nick still waiting for his 'taquitos'
[22:30:22] <takyon> should have microwaved them
[22:31:18] <nick> seems wrong to microwave such things even though the packet says so
[22:32:04] <nick> im was amazed at how good hot pockets are considering they're microwaved
[22:32:13] <takyon> relatively speaking, it's hard to ruin the remaining quality of a taquito
[22:32:50] <takyon> hot pockets have a thin foil sleeve that helps them cook in the microwave, IIRC. but I haven't had them in years
[22:33:18] <nick> yeah they do, but i've had similar products in the UK and the pastry always goes to shit no matter what
[22:34:34] <nick> takyon, the wikipedia article on NAS....
[22:35:09] <nick> 'In 2015, the Institute of Medicine voted to change its name to the National Academy of Medicine. After this change, the organization changed to referring to itself as The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, from The National Academies.'
[22:42:57] <charon_> NASEM is not an acronym that anyone would recognize
[22:43:12] <takyon> sounds like NASAL
[22:43:22] <takyon> or NASEEM!
[22:48:37] <charon_> i think marijuana is relatively harmless and legalization is probably fine. but what drives me nuts is the people i've met who are pushing for legalization are the worst moron weed smoker stereotypes
[22:49:15] <nick> charon_, from what i see on TV in regard to that, i don't think it's an accident
[22:49:31] <nick> keeps it a wedge issue, plays up the stereotypes
[22:49:41] <charon_> "like... it's not about weed, man... you can do so much stuff... with the *inhales* hemp"
[22:50:42] <nick> i think the coverage is intentionally framed that way.... i take it back to when i visited the occupy protest in London all those years ago now...
[22:51:10] <nick> managed to talk to many people who made coherent points and valid criticisms, explained things seriously
[22:51:22] <nick> but who got to be on the news that evening?
[22:51:23] <charon_> maybe so, but some people i personally know are like that
[22:51:33] <nick> some fucking idiot talking about 'takin down the system, man'
[22:51:33] <charon_> hah, you're right there
[22:51:48] <nick> i have never seen such a contrast so personally
[22:51:58] <nick> how different the media portrayal was compared to my personal experience
[22:52:58] <charon_> like protests that don't get coverage when they are peaceful, but the minute someone throws a brick they're all animals
[22:53:43] <nick> in the UK recently there was headlines about how horrible the striking was by train drivers and such
[22:53:59] <nick> it's like they expect people to strike in a way that has no impact
[22:54:08] <charon_> heh
[22:54:27] <nick> same as the 'free speech' zones or whatever... you can protest in a designated place which no one can or will hear you
[22:54:57] <charon_> which is about as un-american as it gets
[22:55:10] <nick> you may not use what little power you have to leverage your issue into a larger debate... you must incorporate and hire lobbyists for that
[22:56:03] <nick> the UK press now has a policy of not reporting on protests until they are over
[22:56:07] <nick> they might have always had that
[22:56:37] <nick> but it's something they're pushing more now, media blackouts on protests until they can run the story of how so few turned up
[22:57:14] <charon_> it almost makes you think they are in cahoots with the gov't
[22:57:21] <nick> i'll never forget the BBC coverage of some chinese state visit to the UK
[22:57:47] <nick> had to give equal weight to the anti-PRC protestors as the strangely organized huge flag waving pro-PRC side of the street
[22:58:39] <nick> 'there are some people over there talking about tibet or something' .... 'oh look at all those pretty flags, eagerly awaiting the arrival of chinese pm/president'
[22:59:27] <charon_> a neutrality which is the same as leaning on one side
[23:00:05] <nick> as i've said before... the bbc will report that group a says it's raining, group b says it's not raining... the bbc reporter declined to look out the window.
[23:00:29] <takyon> the weed advocates are generally people on the extreme side
[23:00:36] <nick> but they do get to pick who group a and b are.
[23:00:44] <takyon> because who else would dedicate their time, or grow it illegally
[23:01:05] <nick> takyon, this is true... but it's pretty difficult for some people to hold themselves up as a responsible person who smokes weed
[23:01:13] <nick> because it's still illegal and they have jobs and such
[23:01:45] <takyon> plenty of people with jobs smoke it. they figure out when/if drug testing occurs in the first week
[23:01:58] <nick> of course
[23:02:14] <nick> but they're not going to be interviewed and their face put in association with it
[23:02:15] <nick> so that
[23:02:27] <nick> is left to the stereotypical pot head
[23:02:43] <nick> who doesn't have anything to lose by associating themselves with a criminal act
[23:03:22] * charon_ inhales
[23:03:45] <nick> only people who can do that are so successful they're exceptions and usually in certain types of work, like entertainment
[23:03:48] <charon_> george washington grew hemp, man
[23:04:16] <nick> who again go back to filling a certain type of stereotype artsy liberals who've never worked in a mine or been a police officer
[23:04:42] <takyon> NORML are pretty normal. and are cops
[23:05:01] <nick> don't understand the dangers that drugs pose to small town america, the liberals wanting to turn america into NYC crack dens#
[23:05:14] <nick> and how much media coverage do NORML get
[23:05:21] <takyon> <nick> don't understand the dangers that drugs pose to small town america, the liberals wanting to turn america into NYC crack dens#
[23:05:28] <charon_> NORML still exists?
[23:05:43] <takyon> maybe you don't know better, but there are plenty of drugs in small town america. made right there.
[23:05:44] <nick> without specifically looking into 'drug war' topics, i don't think ive ever seen NORML be the leading source on an article
[23:05:51] <takyon> cannabis, meth, etc.
[23:06:08] <nick> takyon, i agree... i'm just going along with how i understand the anti-legalization mentality
[23:06:12] <takyon> and there's prescription drug habits leading to heroin habits around everywhere
[23:06:17] <takyon> ok
[23:06:19] <nick> indeed
[23:06:52] <nick> i work music festivals, lived in the Caribbean, i have nothing against people getting high
[23:07:49] <nick> the situation is bullshit, prescription opioids and alcohol do more damage to
[23:08:02] <nick> 'society' every day than weed smoking does in a year
[23:13:16] <charon_> so the state of MA just voted in our referendum to legalize recreational marijuana. then the state congress decided that, despite the direct language in the referendum, they would delay it for another 18 months
[23:13:42] <charon_> oh, sorry. 6 months
[23:15:22] <nick> 'brexit means brexit' is all i have to say on that...
[23:16:56] <charon_> hah
[23:17:13] <charon_> 2 years
[23:17:27] <nick> 2 years, starting at some point
[23:17:49] <nick> vote was in june, earliest A50 goes in will be in march
[23:18:08] <nick> and aside from 'brexit means brexit' and 'best deal for the country'
[23:18:20] <nick> we have no idea what the government is actually trying to achieve
[23:19:20] <nick> might still have to pay into eu budget, might still have to comply with eu legislation, might still have eu residents to work and live in the UK
[23:19:33] <nick> will still be part of the ECHR and EEA
[23:20:02] <nick> but there will be one less country on the list by the door of the EU building.
[23:20:08] <nick> that we can be sure of
[23:20:51] <nick> but even that might not even actually happen until we're in a new decade
[23:21:14] <nick> and then wont 2020 hindsight be fun!
[23:23:33] <charon_> it's a bit odd that the government doesn't seem to have (publicly) any strict meaning
[23:24:08] <nick> could say the same about the incoming administration in the US...
[23:24:17] <charon_> touche
[23:24:33] <nick> it's what you get with the populist slant we're going with
[23:24:37] <nick> it means whatever you want it to mean
[23:24:51] <charon_> i would think brexit means "fuck off, europe" and "no foreigners allowed"
[23:24:54] <nick> but later on, you only have yourselves to blame because we didn't say that
[23:25:35] <nick> that is how a lot of people felt about it, and as i mentioned in here before i left the uk
[23:25:53] <nick> i got a 'fucking foreigners, ruined the country' as i was talking to a couple of colleagues outside of a job site
[23:26:11] <nick> which is something i'd never heard before#
[23:26:32] <nick> uk was good was keeping it's intolerance/xenophobia behind closed doors
[23:26:45] <charon_> sounds familiar
[23:26:51] <nick> but the vote seemed to me, to give people the confidence to be assholes in public too
[23:27:22] <nick> i am no fan of the EU, but the way the vote was framed and how the dialogue continues to be constructed
[23:27:27] <charon_> that sounds familiar too
[23:27:46] <nick> it misses most of the valid points that exist and puts the debate on the wrong footing to start
[23:28:39] <takyon> we gotta get nick up outta this country
[23:28:53] <nick> what did i do now
[23:28:57] <charon_> so he can go foment revolution at home?
[23:29:40] <nick> if there's one thing that the UK stands for, it's not having popular revolutions.
[23:30:16] <takyon> down with the monarchy
[23:30:39] <nick> the uk is a country built on history and tradition, slow and incremental progress to placate the masses whilst ensuring the survival of the traditional holders of the power and wealth
[23:31:28] <nick> the UK can decide for itself what it wants to be, there are people are more committed to the concept of the country with an affinity for the history
[23:31:57] <charon_> the restless shade of oliver cromwell say, "sup!"
[23:34:10] <nick> there are a lot of good things that have come from the UK... but for me, it's a nation with such a convoluted and complex history, it's a place with very little room for ideological/political progression or evolution
[23:35:28] <takyon> liquidate the monarchy's assets. throw them onto the streets
[23:36:32] <takyon> see you later
[23:36:34] <nick> even if it was conceptually viable, it's technically impossible due to the array of jurisdictions and vehicles they have to manage and maintain their assets
[23:37:06] <nick> which is why technically the queen is always poorer now than she was last week, because nothing is really in their own names.
[23:38:00] <nick> ancient trusts and 'corporations' of unique status are dotted around the globe
[23:38:09] <charon_> what? the queen owns the whole damned country and everyone in it
[23:39:01] <nick> she owns a lot of other countries too, technically
[23:39:25] <nick> but that's 'the crown' which is a legal entity of some form
[23:39:32] <nick> which means it's not part of her personal assets
[23:40:10] <charon_> psh, that's a legal hair splitting. she in here own person IS the crown
[23:40:25] <nick> and hundreds of years of legal hair splitting is how they got to where they are
[23:41:17] <nick> officially she's not even a billionaire
[23:41:40] <nick> 'the crown' is apparently officially worth £58bn though
[23:42:24] <charon_> it seems to me pretty strongly analagous to this IRC channel
[23:42:46] <nick> oh?
[23:43:01] <charon_> you and me and bytram say are hanging out chatting and we're all just ordinary folks talking
[23:43:37] <charon_> suddenly a spam bot appears and bytram says .op and suddenly he is not longer bytram but @Bytram with a terrible swift sword
[23:44:23] <nick> maintaining power is much easier to do when you use it wisely
[23:44:29] <charon_> so yes, the queen is elizabeth with her estate and her small passel of gurads. but she is also Elizabeth, the second of her name, ruler of the United Kingdom
[23:45:10] <nick> with no official power and no political allegiance
[23:45:13] <nick> like corporations.
[23:45:36] <charon_> i guess she needs an army
[23:45:52] <nick> but i get your point too... and power is best maintained when it's used wisely and subtly
[23:47:14] <charon_> i think i simultaneously know too much and too little about the UK gov't
[23:47:50] <charon_> just enough to get myself into trouble
[23:47:55] <nick> i don't know enough, but it's pretty difficult to know enough due to the history
[23:48:17] <nick> there is no date the UK gov can't go back to, to find precedent or legal authority to do whatever they want
[23:48:30] <nick> they have a thousand odd years of laws to interpret as they so choose
[23:49:26] <nick> the US has the constitution, imagine not having that but keeping all the other laws that have been created since then
[23:49:36] <charon_> all that precedent to cherry pick from
[23:50:01] <nick> and then stretching it further to incorporate an evolving language over a longer period
[23:50:15] <charon_> it has occurred to me that there are way too many laws which are no longer suited to the times. but are never, possible can never, be repealed
[23:52:03] <nick> the brexit thing is an example of this.. the gov want to go into A50 without putting it to parliament(congress)... want to use 'royal prerogative' instead
[23:53:49] <charon_> so they want the queen to declare it instead of doing it themselves? smeels like bullshit
[23:54:21] <nick> not even that
[23:54:46] <nick> it's somewhat equivalent to an executive order by the president i'd guess
[23:54:48] <charon_> or is it exercised by parliament on behalf of the queen?
[23:55:08] <charon_> with or without her input
[23:55:40] <nick> the prime minister does it, and then answers to parliament after doing it kind of
[23:56:01] <nick> it's essentially been reserved for the government to sign foreign treaties
[23:56:24] <charon_> i see
[23:56:28] <nick> but theres been court rulings that they can't do that
[23:56:33] <nick> because it would affect UK domestic law
[23:57:02] <nick> so exiting the eu is beyond the scope of a normal foreign treaty
[23:58:10] <nick> so right now the government has to go to parliament to enact A50...
[23:58:28] <nick> but they're planning to write the shortest bit of legislation ever in the history of the UK to do it
[23:58:58] <nick> 'as a result of the public vote, the government has the right to enact article 50' on a post-it note or somethign
[23:59:07] <charon_> lol
[23:59:21] <nick> so if there's any objections to it, it can be 'trying to subvert democracy and the will of the people'