#editorial | Logs for 2016-12-28

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[00:10:37] <n1> thats GBP vs USD, 08 levels were high but i expect 1.5 we're now pushing down to 1.20 and below
[00:10:56] <n1> in other news
[00:10:58] <n1> http://www.businessinsider.com
[00:14:55] <charon_> n1: that link to The Information in your amazon echo story is paywalled. mind if i replace it with engadget?
[00:16:48] <n1> TFA summary is engadget
[00:17:07] <n1> The Information is the source engadget used, i just included the link
[00:17:17] <charon_> oh for stupid. maybe i shouldn't be editing anything right now if i didn't even see that
[00:17:41] <n1> it's ok, i know you just want to catch me out ;)
[00:18:38] <n1> i originally was going to use IBTimes for the summary, but apparently they don't like people who use adblockers
[00:29:13] -!- mrpg [mrpg!~m@Soylent/Staff/Editor/mrpg] has joined #editorial
[00:29:13] -!- mode/#editorial [+v mrpg] by Hephaestus
[00:31:08] <charon_> i am just tired. probably should stick to rubber stamping subs for tonight
[00:31:17] <charon_> hiyo mrpg
[00:32:08] <mrpg> hi how are you?
[00:32:44] <charon_> sleepy. and i still have another hour and a half of work
[00:32:56] <charon_> and you?
[00:33:21] <mrpg> put on some good music on yutube to keep you awake.
[00:33:50] <mrpg> I'm fine, I came to see the queue.
[00:34:03] <mrpg> there's two amazon echo submissions
[00:34:52] <mrpg> I'll do the korean one.
[00:35:23] <charon_> looks like n1 has to share credit
[00:37:07] <mrpg> korean taser is his too.
[00:38:16] <mrpg> when leaving the plane richard marx said: I will be right here waiting for you.
[00:38:24] <mrpg> hahaha.
[00:38:31] <charon_> i don't always drink, but when i do it's korean taser
[00:38:49] <mrpg> from the hazard dept
[00:39:17] <mrpg> how do you say dont taze me bro in korean.
[00:42:28] <mrpg> Are there any kind of stats regarding the age of the community?
[00:43:20] <charon_> i would guess that most of us are so fiercely private that we would not answer such a question
[00:44:42] <charon_> but in confidence, i am 217
[00:45:36] <mrpg> You look good for having read Frankenstein in its first edition.
[00:45:49] <mrpg> Ok I'll leave the name of the song in the dept risking half the readership never heard it.
[00:46:38] <mrpg> We could ask with a poll: 1-30 or 31-100
[00:46:55] <charon_> better to put a picture of Daisy Fuentes
[00:46:58] <mrpg> Or for more privacy conscious people: even odd
[00:47:01] * charon_ wolf-whistles
[00:47:32] <mrpg> yes indeed
[00:48:54] <mrpg> How come she looks like that? I was 10 when she was in MTV. I'm like 75 now
[00:49:48] <charon_> personal trainer + lifestyle coach + professional chef
[00:50:16] <mrpg> aaah. sunscreen + vegetables too
[00:50:43] <charon_> yeah, sunscreen is a good one too
[00:52:37] <mrpg> I always used it, I didn't look my age till I moved. That is stressing.
[00:53:19] <charon_> maybe she has a portrait in the attic
[00:54:23] <mrpg> hahaha, yesterday I finished the picture of Dorian Gray.
[00:55:41] <charon_> i know i have read it but it was so long ago i remember nothing about it except the basic story
[00:56:55] <mrpg> I was looking for the uncensored version from 2011 to compare.
[00:59:52] <charon_> huh, i never knew this movie existed. a lot of good actors but it got awful reviews
[01:05:09] <mrpg> which one, which year
[01:09:07] <charon_> 2009 http://www.imdb.com
[01:09:09] <exec> └─ 13Dorian Gray (2009) - IMDb
[01:09:46] * charon_ has work to do. be back later
[01:10:00] -!- charon_ has quit [Quit: heigh ho heigh ho]
[01:18:26] <mrpg> There's a story "IBM Staff Petition for Right Not to Work on Trump's Pet Projects". I find the petition better than the linked article. Can I post to the letter only?
[01:19:03] <mrpg> Y'all sleeping.
[01:19:17] <mrpg> Unit mrpg reporting for duty.
[01:23:13] <mrpg> Or should I submit it?
[01:23:55] <mrpg> Let the best submission wins!
[01:26:59] <n1> what happened to the amazon echo story?
[01:27:28] <n1> mrpg, use both if possible
[01:28:03] <mrpg> both ok
[01:29:14] <mrpg> amazon echo I don't know, I see there's only one now.
[01:29:50] <n1> it says mine was accepted but seems to have vanished into the abyss
[01:30:33] <n1> oh no, that was the korean air one
[01:30:52] <n1> ignore me
[01:31:12] <mrpg> aaah ok
[02:46:52] <charon> damn you cmn32480. i totally blame this on you
[02:58:22] <mrpg> I'm finished. Bye take care.
[02:58:25] -!- mrpg has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[03:14:10] <Fnord666> ~gday all
[03:14:11] * exec readily culturally appropriates a cloud of capsaicin from all
[03:14:24] <charon> evening fnord
[03:15:05] <Fnord666> howdy charon
[03:15:21] <charon> how goes it?
[03:15:49] <Fnord666> well since I'm off this week. How are you this fine Tuesday?
[03:16:29] <charon> tired, stayed up too late last night and i'm beat now after work
[03:18:55] <Fnord666> We had the weirdest weather yesterday. The high was almost 70F
[03:18:57] <Fnord666> today
[03:19:00] <Fnord666> ~weather
[03:19:01] <exec> 10Cincinnati, OH, USA - currently 36°F / 2°C, clear, wind W at 6 mph, humidity 66% - Tuesday clear (27°F:44°F / -3°C:7°C), Wednesday sunny (35°F:49°F / 2°C:9°C), Thursday partly cloudy (27°F:41°F / -3°C:5°C), Friday cloudy (26°F:34°F / -3°C:1°C)
[03:19:17] <charon> and now back to normal, eh?
[03:20:33] <Fnord666> yup
[03:21:21] <Fnord666> That's Cincinnati for you. Don't like the weather? Stick around for an hour, it'll change.
[03:21:28] <charon> hah
[03:22:27] <Fnord666> It did give me a good opportunity to get the tractor switched over to the snow blade and get the motorcycles stored for the winter so it was a good day.
[03:22:57] <charon> now that you're prepared for it, there will be no snow
[03:23:30] <Fnord666> Right. If I hadn't there would be a 4' drift in front of the garage right now.
[03:25:18] <Fnord666> How was your holiday?
[03:27:50] <charon> pretty ok. spent a day with my kids and a day relaxing alone
[03:28:27] <charon> i don't have family near by besides my ex and the kids
[03:29:45] <charon> so i didn't have to make the rounds and stop in to see a bunch of people, thank goodness
[03:30:19] <charon> how about yours?
[03:31:34] <Fnord666> Good. My Dad came down and stayed over for a couple of days. The kids are both off of school right now so everyone's just relaxing.
[03:32:19] <Fnord666> My Dad is the only one left of my and my wife's parents.
[03:33:09] <Fnord666> Went to see a couple of movies, playing with the 3d printer I got for Christmas.
[03:33:41] <charon> make anything neat yet?
[03:34:59] <Fnord666> Not really. Mostly just the basic stuff that everyone makes so far. Trying to get the settings dialed in and get the hang of the workflow.
[03:35:50] <Fnord666> It's amazing how inexpensive these things have become.
[03:35:51] <charon> from what little i know about them, i like the idea. but i honestly don't know what i's make with it
[03:36:44] <Fnord666> Our local library has 3d printers and they just charge for the materials, so that's what I have done in the past.
[03:37:58] <Fnord666> I've done things like create replacement parts for the refrigerator, a new knob for one of the cars, a puzzle for one of the nephews, etc.
[03:39:49] <Fnord666> My wife just chuckles and comments that I spent 3 hours making a cereal box toy.
[03:39:55] <charon> lol
[03:39:59] <charon> she's not wrong
[03:40:35] <Fnord666> I know.
[03:40:52] <Fnord666> Keeps me off the streets though.
[03:41:16] <charon> someday it will be a desperately needed heart valve!
[03:41:25] <charon> then you would just need a surgeon...
[03:41:25] <Fnord666> Exactly!
[03:41:44] <Fnord666> I'm sure there's a tutorial on youtube somewhere.
[03:42:24] <Fnord666> and I can print out the scalpel handles! Cost savings!
[03:43:02] <charon> pays for itself
[03:43:30] <Fnord666> exactly.
[03:44:16] <Fnord666> Switching gears, that Amazon Echo story is going to get interesting.
[03:44:44] <charon> yeah
[03:45:18] <charon> they claim it doesn't record until you call out it's name, but i don't believe that for a second
[03:45:38] <charon> man, i am having a bad day for excess apostrophes
[03:46:18] <Fnord666> Got some extra for Christmas did you?
[03:46:38] <charon> must have. gotta get rid of the'm
[03:46:49] <Fnord666> :)
[03:48:12] <charon> i am not all that old, but i think i'm in the stage where i just don't get new technology anymore
[03:48:13] <Fnord666> I don't recall how much people have dug into the Echo's workings, but network traffic is network traffic if it was shipping everything to the mothership.
[03:48:40] <Fnord666> I worry about that sometimes as well.
[03:49:28] <charon> not that i don't comprehend what it is supposed to do, but i don't see why it's a good idea to do that
[03:49:35] <Fnord666> I think part of it is that the rate at which new technology is appearing is increasing and trying to keep up with it is more and more demanding.
[03:49:59] <Fnord666> Ah. That's a very different question indeed.
[03:50:36] <charon> like why have a webcam/kinect/echo that can potentially see everything you do?
[03:51:11] <Fnord666> "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should." Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park.
[03:51:16] <charon> yes
[03:52:00] <Fnord666> The same people put tape over the webcam on their laptop
[03:52:12] <charon> yep, i would if i had one
[03:52:19] <Fnord666> Because at that moment it isn't serving them a useful purpose.
[03:54:11] <charon> why do we need boxes that get cold to put food in? i was just fine with the icehouse
[03:55:22] <Fnord666> I see you've discovered straw man arguments.
[03:55:31] <charon> lol
[03:56:12] <charon> actually that was me pretending to be old and pathetic. but i see how with a bit of irony, it works like that too
[03:56:14] <Fnord666> I think it's a byproduct of the "social media" generation.
[03:56:55] <Fnord666> Hey, the icebox doesn't require any local power. Something to be said for that.
[04:00:16] <charon> but to kids growing up these days, whatever data is collected will be normal. they may not even have an idea of privacy the way we think of it
[04:01:23] <Fnord666> That's what I'm afraid of.
[04:04:26] <Fnord666> I like to think that my kids do a decent job of monitoring/managing their privacy while still being "normal" in the sense that they participate in the social circles of their friends.
[04:05:49] <charon> mine are still not allowed unfettered computer time. but we should probably have a discussion in the near future about such boring crap
[04:07:19] <Fnord666> To me it wasn't any different than teaching them about "stranger danger" before they were in situations where that might be an issue.
[04:09:50] <Fnord666> Even then I used a lot of restrictions on the router/firewall to limit them to the few game sites they were allowed to play on after I had looked at it.
[04:11:24] <charon> mine play minecraft a lot, my son watches youtube gaming videos, my daughter doesn't seem to do much surfing other than for music and pinterest
[04:11:42] <Fnord666> They are older now and a lot of that has been removed. Mostly just block known malware sites etc.
[04:14:12] <Fnord666> A lot of my daughter's homework is done online as well. The school uses google docs and associated classroom managment apps so they have to write and submit papers online.
[04:16:13] <charon> same. there's another thing i could rant about. school issued ipads, so a lot of their homework is done on that. seems like it is teaching nothing but dependence on technology
[04:18:53] <Fnord666> That one is a real double edged sword.
[04:21:54] <Fnord666> I still believe in being able to do things by hand and being able to do rough estimates to "sanity check" things.
[04:22:31] <charon> plus dating/chatrooms/social media/sending sexy snapchats. man, life is complicated
[04:23:49] <Fnord666> Fortunately there are lots of examples these days about how things like that can backfire.
[04:24:52] <Fnord666> When they say a picture disappears after a few seconds I can show them how someone can save it in those few seconds.
[04:26:36] <Fnord666> Basically if you don't want something printed out and stuck to the wall in the main hallway at school, don't do it.
[04:26:42] <charon> yeap
[04:27:27] <charon> i forget, how old are your kids? if you don't mind my asking
[04:27:38] <Fnord666> 16 and 20, both girls
[04:28:33] <Fnord666> The hardest thing for them to understand was that computers let others do things at scale.
[04:29:33] <Fnord666> No, your phone is not Kim Kadashian's phone, but computers mean being able to do things at scale and grab all the photos off of everyone's phone.
[04:30:14] <charon> excellent point. ananymity doesn't make you safe at all
[04:31:24] <Fnord666> And having your identity stolen sucks no matter who you are.
[04:32:56] * n1 goes to live in a cave
[04:33:03] <Fnord666> But at some point you've taught them as much as you can and then you have to let them be on their own.
[04:33:09] <Fnord666> howdy n1~
[04:33:15] <Fnord666> !
[04:33:23] <n1> ahoy Fnord666
[04:33:42] <Fnord666> How are you this evening?
[04:34:36] <Fnord666> As you can see charon and I were just discussing the difficulty of raising children in this day and age.
[04:34:37] <charon> hiyo n1
[04:34:52] <Fnord666> As opposed to our parents who had it easy! :)
[04:35:25] <n1> as someone who is only just about old enough to remember a time without the internet, i can't imagine how hard it is to bring up kids now
[04:35:35] <charon> kids, just play in traffic and come back if you're bleeding
[04:36:08] <Fnord666> When the streetlights came on or dusk set in it was time to head home.
[04:37:37] <charon> it's very hard to get them away from screens. TV, ipad, computer, kindle, nintendo DS
[04:37:53] <n1> in the old days infant mortality gave people more chances to get it right
[04:38:19] <Fnord666> True. A tad morbid, but true.
[04:38:28] <n1> charon, unless you don't buy them those things.
[04:38:46] <n1> but seriously as i said, i don't know how parents do it now
[04:38:56] <n1> such a different world kids are growing up in
[04:39:09] <charon> i need a faraday cage for the house
[04:39:58] <n1> charon, set up your router to monitor traffic and charge them per mb
[04:40:26] <n1> but in general, i'd agree with or without kids
[04:40:29] <charon> now there's an idea. my son would be broke in about and hour
[04:40:30] <Fnord666> A chore/job board with a value per mb? Interesting thought.
[04:40:44] <n1> Fnord666, yup
[04:41:20] <charon> i've had this million dollar idea but i can't quite work out how to do it.
[04:41:33] <Fnord666> I'm a little older so chores and homework came first before they were allowed to do any of that.
[04:41:59] <Fnord666> charon - for only a small percentage maybe we can help
[04:42:06] <Fnord666> :)
[04:42:15] <n1> a million dollar idea isn't worth as much as it used to be
[04:42:36] <n1> after the lawyers you'll probably owe a million dollars
[04:43:00] <Fnord666> eh a million here and a million there. after a while it turns into real money.
[04:43:09] <charon> putting pieces of eInk surface (is that even still a thing?) in places where chorse are commonly done: eg. inside the garbage can
[04:43:14] <n1> but we are in a world where a $0 idea can be a $$bn IPO
[04:43:34] <Fnord666> charon - go on
[04:43:45] <charon> when you change the wifi password, you can set it to display on one of those surfaces
[04:44:15] <charon> so kids need to do the chores to reach the surfaces to get the password
[04:45:21] <charon> inside the dishwasher so it has to be unloaded. under the pile of dishes in the sink so it has to be emptied
[04:45:56] <Fnord666> you could do it like the coffee shops etc. that give codes for limited time access
[04:46:31] <Fnord666> gonna have to be one tough surface.
[04:46:48] <charon> yeah, may not be suitable for all chores
[04:47:32] <charon> damnit, n1 has just run off to the patent office
[04:47:45] <n1> a practical way to do it would be get the kids to take a pic of a completed chore which then generates a code for a limited time access
[04:48:25] <charon> a picture of a clean sink with todays newspaper
[04:49:02] <Fnord666> a bit too hands off for me. Part of them doing their chores was my confirming it was done with them and providing feedback early on. Later it becomes a part of developing trust, etc.
[04:49:15] <n1> sure, but a pic by itself should be enough and is easily verifiable later
[04:49:30] <Fnord666> A pic of a pic of a clean sink?
[04:49:48] <n1> lol
[04:51:08] <Fnord666> Like you mentioned though, verifiable.
[04:51:23] <chromas> Oh, I misread that at first. I thought you were holding the internet for ransom. "Clean the sink or the router gets it!"
[04:51:24] <Fnord666> and it comes back to a trust thing in the end
[04:52:07] <Fnord666> chromas - Given the quality of today's consumer routers I suspect nothing would ever get done.
[04:52:15] <charon> power over a thing means the power to destroy it
[04:52:35] <Fnord666> Then it becomes a technology game
[04:52:58] <Fnord666> MAC blocking until they learn how to swap MAC addresses on their laptop.
[04:53:20] <n1> this is why you whitelist MACs
[04:53:41] <n1> and have separate wifi networks for the kids, which you can hold to ransom if necessary
[04:53:46] <Fnord666> Just a slightly different challenge.
[04:54:12] <n1> Fnord666, as you said, trust, but there should also be mutual respect
[04:54:12] <Fnord666> Set it up with WEP and don't give them the password.
[04:54:30] <Fnord666> Definitely.
[04:54:30] <charon> a neighbor has unsecured wifi. no clue who it is. my kids were using that network for a while until my ex caught them
[04:54:33] <chromas> cracked in 5 minutes
[04:54:47] <Fnord666> chromas right but they have to learn how to do it.
[04:55:00] <Fnord666> Like I said, technical challenge, not punishment.
[04:55:08] <chromas> Good idea. Set up challenges that make them learn
[04:55:27] <Fnord666> and also why they shouldn't trust it
[04:55:43] <Fnord666> They see how fast it is broken
[04:57:08] <n1> a challenge to learn is a good thing, incentive to disobey the parents is not so much... but the difference can be subtle
[04:57:44] <Fnord666> n1 - absolutely and I may have veered off course too quickly there.
[04:58:36] <n1> your kids are old enough for something like giving them a WEP to crack and understand what you're trying to teach them
[04:59:02] <n1> if i had ki
[04:59:04] <n1> kids
[04:59:17] <n1> i'd be more for the 'you're not using the internet until you're 21'
[04:59:24] <Fnord666> And yes, it's all subtle. My goal is not to raise mindless automatons either though. Sometimes you have to question authority.
[04:59:31] <charon> genie, bottle
[04:59:40] <Fnord666> n1 - If it were only that simple.
[04:59:57] <Fnord666> :)
[05:00:02] <n1> Fnord666, when i'm back in the middle of nowhere, south america, it'll be a lot easier should the theoretical happen ;)#
[05:00:37] <Fnord666> There is that.
[05:00:41] <n1> although by the time it's a real concern, those facebook drones will be everywhere
[05:00:50] <n1> giving the 'basics' or whatever, making it even worse
[05:00:53] <Fnord666> GoogleFace?
[05:01:19] <Fnord666> are facebook drones a thing or a species?
[05:01:30] <charon> we are legion
[05:01:35] <Fnord666> or a social class?
[05:01:41] <n1> have you not read about the facebook drones?
[05:01:48] <Fnord666> we are anonymous
[05:02:03] <Fnord666> the network providing idea?
[05:02:25] <n1> http://www.telegraph.co.uk
[05:02:27] <exec> └─ 13Facebook's 10-year plan: Drones, satellites and virtual reality
[05:02:31] <Fnord666> similar to the one that blew up on the launch pad with satelites?
[05:05:03] <charon> "and the creation of an app that can add stylised filters to videos as they’re filmed using AI" what the fuck does this even do? are we a nation of telephone sanitizers now?
[05:05:04] <Fnord666> I find their goals interesting, but I'm not sure Facebook is what people without access to clean water need.
[05:05:33] <n1> it's not about what they need though
[05:06:03] <Fnord666> And that is the key distinction, at lest to me.
[05:06:26] <n1> i agree, there's nothing benevolent about what facebook is attempting to do
[05:06:52] <n1> but it's an updated version of bill gates donating microsoft products to the developing world
[05:07:02] <n1> keeps them in the right ecosystem, even if they're still hungry and thirsty
[05:07:18] <Fnord666> They like to couch their goals in those terms, though like people will die without it
[05:08:48] <n1> unrelated but interesting thing on Cuba/Castro: "The assembly approved legislation that will carry out Fidel’s final dying wish that will forbid the use of his name and image from streets, statues, parks, government institutions and public places."
[05:09:23] <charon> cmn32480 will be pleased by that
[05:09:36] <Fnord666> just thinkingthe same thing
[05:09:49] <n1> cmn32480 has ties to cuba?
[05:10:21] <charon> at least one of his parents was a refugee
[05:10:22] <Fnord666> family ties I believe
[05:10:45] <charon> possibly both, i forget
[05:11:36] <n1> it will be interesting to see what happens in Cuba in the next couple of years or so
[05:12:20] <charon> where did i read that...? something about rising tourism means the tourists are getting the best food and natives are getting screwed over
[05:13:47] <n1> it's hard to really get any perspective what's going on there due to propaganda on both sides
[05:14:14] <n1> i actually visited cuba like 20 years ago now, and it wasn't visibly any worse than other developing countries
[05:15:29] <n1> but much of the caribbean and south america is very thankful for the doctors that cuba has supplied in times of need, with apparently no strings attached
[05:15:49] <n1> and it's a badge of honour in many of those places if your doctor was trained in cuba
[05:16:03] <Fnord666> I hadn't heard of that.
[05:16:09] <Fnord666> interesting.
[05:16:21] <n1> well it's not something US media is going to shout about
[05:16:32] <n1> but as someone who's lived in those places, it's very visible and relevant
[05:16:33] <charon> but but... commies!
[05:16:52] <n1> and that in no way is a means to defend the political oppression in cuba
[05:17:23] <Fnord666> Living there will definitely give you a perspective not obtainable elsewhere
[05:18:16] <n1> as i said, i only visited cuba for a vacation, but there's very little difference between cuba and other developing countries
[05:18:27] <n1> except those countries have not had decades of embargo and such
[05:19:02] <n1> and there's plenty of other countries we don't mind the political oppression and press restrictions, when it suits our economic interests
[05:19:51] <charon> i've never been, but i don't necessarily see why castro was supposed to be so bad
[05:20:35] <n1> as Anderson Cooper (i think said) when confronted about why he doesn't cover various abuses in Saudi Arabia... "why don't you go there and report on it?"
[05:21:43] <n1> charon, divergent economic policies which did not put corporate interests first
[05:22:07] <n1> but then there's also the political oppression and jailing peaceful dissidents
[05:22:08] <charon> well yeah. that was going to be the second part of that sentence
[05:22:59] <n1> some american corporations owned large parts of Cuba before the revolution
[05:23:06] <n1> i believe some are still seeking compensation
[05:23:29] <n1> and by large parts i litterally mean notable %'s of the overall country
[05:24:13] <n1> and from what i understand cuba before the revolution has parallels to iran before their revolution
[05:24:41] <n1> there was a urban elite who lived relatively 'western' lifestyles, and then there was the poor unwashed masses in the rural areas who had nothing
[05:25:38] <n1> the hungry and the poor can be motivated when the disparity of wealth becomes impossible to ignore
[05:26:57] <charon> oh, hello america. how are you this century?
[05:27:53] <n1> this is what many successful countries in this century are having to contend with
[05:28:03] <Fnord666> The parallels are getting more striking, aren't they?
[05:28:16] <n1> not just the US, places like India and Brazil, the divisions are getting bigger and more obvious
[05:28:56] <n1> a growing middle class can be a good thing, but when the middle class lifestyle in a developing country is comparable to one in the developed world
[05:29:02] <Fnord666> For certain definitions of successful.
[05:29:07] <n1> but the poor are in the same place they have been forever, it's not only a good thing
[05:29:50] <n1> Fnord666, sadly the only one's that matter in whatever ism we're in the middle of
[05:30:05] <n1> financialism perhaps to coin a term?
[05:30:25] <n1> or more appropriately to leverage a term
[05:30:33] <Fnord666> That's an interesting term.
[05:31:23] <Fnord666> as opposed to capitalism
[05:32:14] <n1> i've ranted about this before so i'll try to save it, but the capitalism/communism/socialism terms are worthless and do not help move the discussion forward at all
[05:32:15] <Fnord666> but perhaps more applicable
[05:33:01] <Fnord666> That's true. They've all diverged in meaning to the extent that they are useless at this point.
[05:33:54] <n1> it should be obvious we have moved beyond a binary world where it's capitalism vs communism
[05:34:00] <charon> as well as having a lot of empotional baggage
[05:34:04] <n1> indeed
[05:34:30] <n1> they're loaded terms which you can't support... and in my view, both have failed to deliver the betterment of society
[05:34:49] <n1> but then i'd also argue neither have actually been tried honestly
[05:36:11] <Fnord666> Good point.
[05:36:25] <charon> because people are assholes, not to put too fine a point on it
[05:36:40] <n1> i'm concerned that we are heading deep into divesting ourselves from those isms and going full force into identity politics
[05:37:04] <n1> which is worse really because it's not about an ideology it's just about picking a side that you look/feel like
[05:37:58] <n1> some bastardization of the left-right divide, but even more meaningless
[05:39:37] <charon> i dunno if it's meaningless. at least not the way i see the divide
[05:39:58] <n1> i mean in a way that as i see it right now, it's facilitating no constructive debate
[05:40:18] <charon> oh, then i agree with that completely
[05:43:07] <n1> as someone who fits the role perfectly of being on the top of the social/economic pile as far as gender/sexuality/economic mobility, i'm not feeling threatened
[05:43:59] <n1> so i find it kind of hard to relate to the fear that other people who identify with that seem to feel now with the' SJW's' and all the other shit they talk about
[05:44:07] <Fnord666> identity politics at that level will make compromise so much more difficult and I can't see where that will benefit progress at all.
[05:44:46] <n1> i had a conversation not that long ago with someone who i thought was pretty intelligent and perceptive
[05:45:05] <n1> and then he said "well hillary clinton is a communist, even compared to obama"
[05:45:36] <charon> she is?
[05:45:42] <charon> he is?
[05:45:47] <n1> it was news to me too
[05:46:03] <Fnord666> Said without a sarcasm tag?
[05:46:10] <n1> very much so
[05:46:45] <charon> well... to be fair, is this not the exact same thing as saying Donald Trump is a white supremacist?
[05:47:00] <Fnord666> So did you explore that at all?
[05:47:12] <n1> Fnord666, i pick my battles
[05:47:18] <Fnord666> To see where that belief/opinion came from?
[05:47:43] <charon> can't logic someone out of a position that they didn't logic themselves into
[05:47:48] <n1> there was several people in the discussion, and i was the only one who was in the position to oppose, and it wasn't a fight i was going to take
[05:48:04] <Fnord666> I wasn't thinking of it so much as a battle as a drawing out to see where its root were.
[05:48:16] <n1> i'd rather talk about actual policy decisions and tangible issues than the broad brush like that
[05:48:35] <n1> it was explained in how the US swings from left to right every 8 years
[05:48:48] <n1> and after obama if it swung anymore left, it would be communist
[05:48:51] <Fnord666> Understandable and a group dynamic changes things as well.
[05:49:42] <n1> i enjoy the conversations but i don't do arguments, i'll always try and frame things constructively... my general goal is everyone gets to learn something
[05:50:03] <n1> i'm not trying to change people's opinions, just present more information and perspectives to enable a more rounded view of a situation
[05:50:23] <n1> but as an outsider, i'm unlikely to sway anyone on US domestic policy
[05:50:48] <charon> yeah, what do you know, limey
[05:50:56] <n1> but now foreign policy, we can talk about that for days ;)
[05:50:57] <Fnord666> How dare you try and be constructive and maybe enlighten others a bit.
[05:51:08] <Fnord666> :)
[05:51:37] <n1> i had some good conversations on xmas day with some americans, which i feel like i managed to enlighten a little
[05:52:50] <charon> that's probably the best you can dp
[05:53:08] <n1> main thing to understand in all political/ideological spheres is to understand the world is not binary, it's not a good vs evil
[05:53:08] <charon> make people aware that the other side is not a bunch of raving loonies
[05:54:05] <n1> there is so much nuance in the contexts which create the ideologies, and if you seek to enlighten someone, talking down or dismissing a viewpoint does nothing
[05:54:25] <n1> you have to understand where the viewpoint comes from and discuss it in a way which reframes the issue
[05:55:21] <n1> this is mostly learned from how much i agree with my grandparents in UK domestic policy, but how much we disagree in the framing of the debates and contexts in which the issues arose
[05:56:29] <n1> they will always fall back on 'well the labour party would do worse' rather than taking an honest look at how a 'conservative' policy is false advertising, doomed to fail or a distraction
[05:58:30] <n1> i worry this is what's going to happen with Trump, people have faith in the symbol that they want him to be, and are going to give him a pass... same as the people who saw obama as a symbol and gave him a pass
[05:59:05] <Fnord666> Hopefully they learned at least a little bit from that course with Obama though.
[05:59:06] <charon> it's inherent in the language. he's our guy
[06:00:10] <n1> Fnord666, they wont though, because it's their guy this time... Obama's rhetoric placated a notable percentage of the population... Trump's will do the same for the percentage that felt alienated by the last 8 years
[06:00:36] <n1> because if it wasn't him, it would be hillary, which would be worse for sure...
[06:00:56] <n1> so whatever he does, it's better than what she would have done, even if it's essentially the same
[06:01:19] <Fnord666> Perhaps as long as he doesn't go completely off the rails
[06:01:46] <charon> "maybe trump started a nuclear war, but hillary would have done it earlier"
[06:02:00] <n1> it's off to a good start, himself and all those billionaires he has around him.... they got those billions from that swamp being like it is... they're not going to change it in any way that affects the basis for their own successes
[06:02:36] <Fnord666> I feel like he's just a big, not very well thought out FU to the established career politicians.
[06:03:04] <n1> and as that FU, he's got in all those people who have been paying those career politicians
[06:03:31] <n1> now they are really going to get their money's worth for all those donations and lobbying
[06:03:32] <charon> it's like my ex-FiL who every election would vote against the incumbent. just because he doesn't trust them
[06:03:56] <Fnord666> Yeah that was part of the "not very well thought out" bit.
[06:04:01] <n1> i don't think people who voted for trump as an FU are wrong at all
[06:04:42] <Fnord666> Are wrong in their choice or are wrong in voting that way for that reason?
[06:04:57] <n1> for the reason
[06:05:12] <n1> i think trump is different to hilary, but it's just a different flavour of shit
[06:05:29] <n1> they're both products of their environment, and their environments have been pretty similar for the last few decades
[06:05:30] <Fnord666> I was going to say they had a shit sandwich in either hand...
[06:05:58] <n1> and they've both had similar levels of success in their respective and overlapping environments
[06:06:32] <n1> I felt the same about the UK-EU vote
[06:07:04] <Fnord666> In what way?
[06:07:09] <charon> that neither choice matters?
[06:07:16] <n1> we don't have any good options here, and we've not had an honest discussion about the situation we're in now to work out where we should be going from here
[06:08:01] <n1> it was another vote on identity politics
[06:08:27] <n1> the EU as an institution is a horrible shitty mess
[06:09:50] <n1> but the idea that the UK, the country with over a thousand years history of political bullshitting is going to make life better for the plebs, is ignorant as fuck
[06:10:37] <n1> but we will be free from any potential EU shackles of creating the most advanced surveillance state in the world
[06:10:48] <charon> hear hear
[06:11:00] <n1> which the UK already is, but it's a race against China
[06:11:05] <Fnord666> Why did the UK join the EU to begin with? Please forgive my ignorance.
[06:11:13] <n1> 'common market'
[06:11:23] <charon> translation: all the cool kids were doing it
[06:11:43] <n1> you can trade with the other member states with no taxes or tariffs, shared standards
[06:12:04] <n1> the EU evolved beyond that and the UK went along with it
[06:12:13] <n1> but it was a convenient excuse mostly
[06:12:24] <Fnord666> That had to be expected.
[06:12:29] <n1> the government of the day could implement a law the people wouldn't like
[06:12:36] <n1> but it can be blamed on the EU enforcing it
[06:13:07] <Fnord666> but it came with too many strings finally?
[06:13:08] <n1> and there was this weird idea that the UK was the only country that had to deal with EU laws, everyone else just ignored them
[06:13:30] <n1> but the reality is, everyone ignored the ones they wanted to, and the EU was a useful scapegoat and pension plan
[06:13:34] <Fnord666> So there was no enforcement?
[06:13:49] <n1> only reason the vote happened was because the UK Conservative party was at risk of imploding
[06:14:26] <n1> if they didn't put EU membership up to a vote, a third party might have become relevant again
[06:15:30] <n1> it's an extremely complicated situation which few people give it credit for, and the government is not going to admit it, and corporate media isn't going to dig their own grave
[06:15:45] <n1> so we're just keeping it grade school level to keep a lid on it
[06:16:52] <n1> i am no fan of the EU, but i'm also not a blind patriot who will just swallow our version of 'make britain great again'
[06:16:52] <Fnord666> I guess that's one way to handle it.
[06:17:28] <n1> for me, it killed a large part of my business overnight, voting out
[06:17:47] <n1> the vote out killed the £, the majority of my work with good margin was based on foreign investment
[06:18:06] <Fnord666> ouch
[06:18:11] <n1> so all their gains were lost overnight and the property market stopped moving, so no more investment was coming any time soon
[06:18:36] <n1> all my business is tied in some way to the UK's position in the EU
[06:18:57] <n1> people could buy into the EU as much as they wanted, but limited exposure by keeping their assets in £ not euro
[06:18:58] <Fnord666> Well that made the vote kinda important...
[06:19:23] <n1> billions, if not trillions of dollars came from other countries, through london and then onto the rest of the EU
[06:19:34] <n1> that money has no reason to do that if the UK is out
[06:20:28] <n1> all levels of my business is inextricably linked to EU membership, manufacturers, clients, contractors... In London you can't avoid it... but London voted to stay in
[06:21:14] <n1> but most people don't really understand how the UK being a financial capital of the world really works
[06:21:43] <n1> and having years of uncertainty like never before gives other places the chance to step up and become a new capital of finance
[06:22:24] <n1> and gives other countries the chance to get out from the under political and economic leverage the UK has had over them for centuries sometimes
[06:22:25] <charon> money pouring into london may be good for london, but is it good for the UK as a whole?
[06:22:47] <n1> charon, of course not
[06:23:19] <n1> there are much bigger issues, but those are not going to be discussed
[06:24:16] <Fnord666> But the loss will have an impact that will ripple across the whole of the UK
[06:24:24] <n1> we might think the previous governments economic policy was flawed and manipulated markets in various ways, but those various ways lead to massive increases in real estate values
[06:24:35] <n1> which is what is the basis for everyone's pensions
[06:25:08] <n1> so we can't really acknowledge the depth of the flawed policies for the last few decades, because it would undermine all the benefits of those policies
[06:26:07] <Fnord666> Were those flawed policies across both parties?
[06:26:21] <n1> very much so
[06:26:43] <Fnord666> Ah, so a "gentleman's agreement" not to discuss
[06:26:56] <n1> for a while there they liked to talk about the national debt/deficit ... it was a big talking point back in 08-09 obviously
[06:27:12] <n1> go back to 07 though and the conservative party conference, not a mention of the unsustainable debt levels
[06:27:26] <n1> it didn't happen overnight
[06:27:59] <Fnord666> true
[06:28:18] <n1> the issue with bigger economic policies is the longer term effects are just that, and they don't manifest themselves until after 8 years of a government
[06:29:01] <n1> while everyone is getting richer, you can't argue that that getting richer is based on bullshit economics
[06:29:12] <n1> what you can say though is if you were in power, everyone would be getting more richer
[06:29:24] <Fnord666> building their palaces on quicksand
[06:29:53] <n1> as i said earlier, the EU vote only happened to ensure the survival of the political party in power
[06:30:07] <n1> the political establishment at large was not against the situation
[06:30:28] <Fnord666> how did someone force their hand then?
[06:30:37] <n1> it created an odd situation, the Prime Minister who was for the EU membership was the one who put it up for a vote
[06:31:10] <n1> and the Labour party had Corbyn as their leader, who historically was against EU membership (he's also a socialist)
[06:31:19] <n1> but the Labour party was for EU membership as a whole
[06:31:45] <n1> and the Conservative party (ruling) had to try and keep their anti-eu supporters happy
[06:32:25] <n1> the last election UKIP got a lot of votes, the election before the conservatives promised a vote but got out of it because they were in a coalition government
[06:32:45] <n1> so they were very much forced into it by winning the last election, or risk losing even more next time to UKIP
[06:33:24] <Fnord666> Sorry, had to google UKIP
[06:33:32] <n1> the new PM was technically pro-EU too, but she's also got the ghost of thatcher thing going on, so they give her a pass for switching sides
[06:34:11] <n1> Trump apparently wanted the UK Gov to give Farage some kind of ambassadorship so he could be the middleman between US and UK
[06:35:35] <Fnord666> What's in it for Trump?
[06:35:58] <n1> populist momentum, straight talking assholes
[06:36:23] <n1> lies in a language regular folks can understand rather than political beating around the bush
[06:37:51] <n1> Farage shook up the establishment in the same way Trump did
[06:37:54] <Fnord666> popular appeal then
[06:38:10] <n1> although Farage is the position to take all the credit but has none of the responsibility
[06:38:37] <n1> he tried to step down as UKIP party leader after the EU vote, but the party is more of a shambles than the rest of them
[06:38:50] <n1> so he had to step back in
[06:40:27] <Fnord666> Did he take leadership back from Paul Nuttall then?
[06:41:10] <n1> Paul Nuttall is the leader now, but there was someone else
[06:41:21] <n1> i think it was a woman who lasted about 3 days
[06:41:46] <Fnord666> Diane JAmes, 18 days
[06:41:52] <Fnord666> according to wikipedia
[06:43:19] <n1> it was a mess
[06:43:24] <Fnord666> I've learned more in the last couple of hours than in months from news sources.
[06:43:56] <n1> glad i could help ;)
[06:44:53] <n1> it's also why i take my work on this site quite seriously, the news is utter shit, but we have a platform where we can actually make some sense of the bullshit
[06:46:08] <Fnord666> Perhaps even find something a little less shit than normal
[06:46:34] <Fnord666> in the news I mean
[06:47:45] <Fnord666> Mainstream media isn't likely to produce anything these days that hasn't been triple filtered and double checked for political appropriateness
[06:47:59] <n1> i hope people can think for themselves, read beyond the headlines and understand context and other perspectives
[06:48:29] <Fnord666> hopefully
[06:49:04] <n1> mainstream and alternative is loaded with bias and conflicts of interest, it's just different flavours of it... it's nearly all marketing and public relations
[06:49:10] <Fnord666> but some days I wonder.
[06:49:25] <Fnord666> exactly.
[06:50:05] <n1> but with how SN works, we have the best chance of taking something constructive from it
[06:52:16] <Fnord666> I agree, I think it does provide the best opportunities for that to happen
[06:53:19] <n1> it's hit and miss, and if it can scale... who knows
[06:54:06] <Fnord666> True but of all the flavors of forums (fora?) I think it has the best chance for success.
[06:54:36] <n1> but right now, the community has all the potential to make this site a good read for everyone.
[06:55:30] <Fnord666> It will take active participation though
[06:55:59] <Fnord666> There's the story but the conversation is at least as important.
[06:56:36] <Fnord666> Without that it's just an RSS feed.
[06:56:44] <n1> the conversation is the most important
[06:57:01] <Fnord666> yes
[06:57:19] <n1> as an editor, i try to just get that off to the best start
[06:58:06] <n1> you don't necessarily know what or how much, but different summaries and headlines will make a difference to the resulting discussion
[07:00:03] <Fnord666> Agreed. I've been going back and looking at older stories to try and understand more about that.
[07:00:37] <Fnord666> See what stimulated useful or interesting conversation.
[07:01:53] <n1> https://soylentnews.org
[07:01:57] <exec> └─ 13The Failed Experiments of Multiculturalism - SoylentNews
[07:02:29] <n1> if i recall there's some good stuff in the comments on that one
[07:02:59] <n1> but TFA and summary is quite excellent and some of Ethanol-fueled's best work
[07:03:17] <Fnord666> I don't get EA at all
[07:03:43] <n1> EA?
[07:03:44] <Fnord666> I'll have to check that story out.
[07:04:09] <Fnord666> Sorry, Ethanol Fueled.
[07:04:39] <Fnord666> It's a bit late
[07:05:44] <n1> it is... i need to read it again too
[07:06:07] <Fnord666> In fact I need to get going. I have to be up early tomorrow.
[07:06:24] <n1> EF is entertaining, but also crude and cheap at times. He's done good work in the past as a commenter and submitter.
[07:06:25] <Fnord666> Thank you very much for the discussion. It's been enjoyable.
[07:06:43] * n1 hat tip
[07:06:58] * Fnord666 nods in return
[07:07:13] <Fnord666> ~gnight n1
[07:07:14] <n1> it's been a good one and sleep sounds like the right idea for now
[07:07:15] * exec figuratively cracks open a kilobyte of turkey bacon for n1
[07:07:22] <n1> take it easy Fnord666
[07:07:33] <Fnord666> you too.
[07:07:40] <Fnord666> ~gnight charon
[07:07:41] * exec whole-heartedly uninstalls a bottle of problematic principles from charon
[07:08:21] -!- n1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[07:08:35] <charon> ~gnight Fnord666
[07:08:36] * exec seductively embiggens a smidgen of weed with Fnord666
[07:42:06] -!- Tachyon_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[10:26:22] -!- Tachyon_ [Tachyon_!~Tachyon@xuco.me] has joined #editorial
[18:00:19] -!- nick [nick!~nick@Soylent/Staff/Editor/n1] has joined #editorial
[18:00:19] -!- mode/#editorial [+v nick] by Hephaestus
[19:09:29] <takyon> n1: thanks for doing the boeing story. I forgot about it.
[19:16:30] <nick> when it's a 2-for-1, with an iran bonus, i couldn't pass it up
[20:13:32] <Fnord666> ~gday all!
[20:13:34] * exec transphobically crossbreeds a bathtub of socketable gems with all!
[20:13:51] <cmn32480> ~gday Fnord666
[20:13:52] * exec dexterously imagines a finger of spinning rust with Fnord666
[20:14:31] <Fnord666> How are things going to day cmn32480
[20:14:33] <Fnord666> ?
[20:14:47] <cmn32480> reasonable.. you?
[20:15:00] <Fnord666> Well, thanks.
[20:15:29] <Fnord666> How have your holidays been so far?
[20:15:56] <cmn32480> relatively quiet
[20:16:13] <cmn32480> Dad threw a hissy fit becasue we called the daya fter Christmas and not the day of
[20:16:32] <cmn32480> smh
[20:16:49] <Fnord666> What can you do?
[20:17:35] <cmn32480> shake my head and understand where my brother's "The World Revolves Around Me" attitude comes from
[20:18:01] <Fnord666> lol
[20:18:11] <Fnord666> Came by it honestly then?
[20:18:27] <cmn32480> somethign like that
[20:18:48] <cmn32480> it is quiete obvious that tehy are related
[20:19:30] <Fnord666> He doing ok other than that?
[20:19:37] <cmn32480> yeah
[20:19:45] <Fnord666> That's good.
[20:19:46] <cmn32480> Dad just drives me nuts sometimes
[20:20:07] <cmn32480> it has always been a thing with my father that you have to call on the day of somethign
[20:20:15] <cmn32480> you can't call the day before or the day after
[20:20:20] <cmn32480> has to be ON THAT DAY
[20:20:31] <cmn32480> he gets pissy when we dont' call on their anniversary..
[20:20:37] <cmn32480> or Easter
[20:20:41] <cmn32480> or whatever
[20:20:56] <cmn32480> doesn't matter if I am on the road...
[20:21:09] <cmn32480> jit is ficking rediculous
[20:21:53] <Fnord666> Seems a bit over the top yes.
[20:22:58] <cmn32480> yeah
[20:24:15] <Fnord666> But quiet other than that eh?
[20:24:32] <cmn32480> mostly yes
[20:24:36] <cmn32480> how bout you?
[20:25:24] <Fnord666> About the same. My Dad came down for a couple of days at Christmas and both of my girls are off of school right now so the whole family was here.
[20:25:45] <cmn32480> that's nice
[20:26:23] <Fnord666> It is. I'm off this week so mostly working around the house getting things ready for winter.
[20:26:54] * cmn32480 needs to get that done too
[20:27:34] <cmn32480> but we HAVE to go to my parents house for Christmas since my sister has decided to grace us with her presence
[20:27:38] <Fnord666> Monday was such an odd day here weather-wise that I took the opportunity to get the motorcycles stored and the snow blade on the tractor.
[20:27:53] <cmn32480> so a good day's work
[20:28:00] <Fnord666> It was.
[20:28:02] <nick> howdy cmn32480 and Fnord666
[20:28:11] <Fnord666> Howdy nick!
[20:28:26] <cmn32480> ~gday nick
[20:28:27] * exec allegedly reticulates a B cup of Windows XP for nick
[20:28:36] <Fnord666> cmn32480 - Ah, one of those sisters.
[20:29:19] <cmn32480> and it has been worse since she got remarried
[20:30:25] <nick> you don't get to choose your family
[20:30:49] <cmn32480> husband has 2 wonderful girls from a previous marrage... but now we all have to work around her schedule ALL THE FUCKING TIME
[20:31:00] <cmn32480> correct nick
[20:31:10] <cmn32480> but knowing who they are makes it easier to run them down in the street
[20:31:47] * Fnord666 nods knowingly
[20:31:55] <nick> works out ok for my family, we're a few thousand miles apart mostly
[20:32:22] * cmn32480 is jealous
[20:32:51] * cmn32480 just wants a Christmas or holiday where he doesn't HAVE to have people over, or go see them
[20:33:05] * cmn32480 needs a nap
[20:33:26] <Fnord666> cmn32480 does seem a tad grumpy.
[20:33:38] <cmn32480> more than normal
[20:33:51] <cmn32480> [prolly has somethign to do w/ my daughter puking in her bed at 1am
[20:34:03] <Fnord666> oh that's always fun.
[20:34:16] <Fnord666> for neither of you.
[20:34:16] <cmn32480> yeah
[20:34:21] <cmn32480> took ages to get back to sleep
[20:35:05] <Fnord666> nap time!
[20:35:33] <cmn32480> I wish...
[20:35:35] <cmn32480> am at work
[20:35:38] <cmn32480> they frown on that
[20:36:04] <nick> wedge yourself behind the office door?
[20:36:17] <nick> not saying i've ever done that
[20:36:18] <Fnord666> I guess a cuba libre is out of the question then.
[20:37:09] <cmn32480> right now? yes
[20:37:19] <cmn32480> when I get home? it is a distinct possibiliy
[20:37:28] <cmn32480> and yes nick, I am half Cuban
[20:38:02] * nick just wants to ask what half
[20:38:23] <cmn32480> Dad
[20:39:17] <nick> have you ever been, or due to the situation it's been difficult/impossible?
[20:39:32] <cmn32480> impossible
[20:39:37] <cmn32480> until very recently
[20:40:06] <nick> hoping to now as things are somewhat improving?
[20:40:27] <cmn32480> at some point.
[20:40:49] <cmn32480> but in the near futrure, I'm waiting to see if Trump changes things
[20:41:01] <cmn32480> Cubans are still coming ver in rafts...
[20:41:27] <cmn32480> the only thing that the "deal" made possible was for Americans to travel there.
[20:41:39] <cmn32480> there were no substantiative changes in the policies of the Cuban gov't
[20:41:54] <nick> plenty of people coming over by similar means from lots of other countries
[20:42:43] <cmn32480> yeah
[20:42:52] <cmn32480> but the policy with Cuba has always been different
[20:43:11] <cmn32480> the people coming over from Cuba have always been on a feet wet/ feet dry policy
[20:43:18] <cmn32480> if they get caught on the water, they get sent back
[20:43:27] <cmn32480> if they get caught on dry land they get asylum
[20:43:35] <cmn32480> everybody else just gets sent back
[20:43:52] <nick> which encourages more people to try it
[20:44:00] <cmn32480> correct.
[20:44:07] <cmn32480> but for many it is the only way to escape
[20:44:25] <cmn32480> and I realize that my views are somethat skewed
[20:44:44] <cmn32480> reality is that I have only ever been exposed to one side of the argument]
[20:44:58] <nick> in the conversation earlier i tried to make it clear i don't support much of what the cuban govt does
[20:45:10] <nick> but it's about equal measure to how much i dont support what most governments do
[20:45:49] <nick> and as i mentioned, my trip to cuba 20 years ago wasn't perceptibly different from many other developing countries
[20:46:32] <cmn32480> I read some of it ... btu work interfered in my ability to read all the backscroll'
[20:48:13] <nick> i think cuba has great opportunities moving forward, but it's a risky game to play, other countries that have strongly aligned themselves with US interests, it has not necessarily meant prosperity for the population as a whole
[20:48:40] <nick> it has meant a lot of private security and gated communities
[20:54:58] <nick> the west generally cares little for domestic policy as long as economic and foreign policy is supportive... maybe it's just a pick your battles thing, but essentially it means you can oppress your people how you like, as long as they can open bank accounts at Scotia/Barclays/HSBC/JPM etc
[20:56:59] <cmn32480> one mopmnet
[20:57:03] <cmn32480> work interfering
[20:58:21] <nick> just me rambling anyways, but i've been to enough dirt poor countries that have changed little for the majority of the population, except the presence of int'l banks and mcdonalds.
[21:00:23] <nick> and of course the ever present tv media showing what people can have in the US, the 'Friends' social commentary of semi-employed people living the good life in a NYC loft... which i assume is now more in the form of reality tv and celebrity culture than sitcoms
[21:20:18] <cmn32480> sheesh
[21:20:28] <cmn32480> can't these people tell I'm on IRC and don't give AF?
[21:25:54] <nick> bastards
[21:26:05] <cmn32480> SERIOUSLY!
[21:27:41] <cmn32480> and there goes the GD phone again
[21:38:07] <cmn32480> yeesh
[21:38:23] <cmn32480> all I need from my VOIP provider is how do I configure the damn phones.
[21:38:29] <cmn32480> not rocket science.
[21:48:25] -!- charon_ [charon_!~0c0959f3@Soylent/Staff/Editor/charon] has joined #editorial
[21:48:25] -!- mode/#editorial [+v charon_] by Hephaestus
[21:48:47] <charon_> ~gday editorial
[21:48:48] * exec hideously integrates a potion of MP with editorial
[21:52:26] <nick> OMG IT'S CHARON!!!!
[21:52:43] <cmn32480> you sound surprised?
[21:55:03] <nick> excited
[21:55:05] * nick faints
[21:55:19] <charon_> hi nick!
[21:55:40] <charon_> and hi cmn32480
[21:55:55] <cmn32480> ~gday charon_
[21:55:56] * exec deliciously poops some cream of tofurkey for charon_
[21:57:59] <charon_> how are things for yall?
[22:01:19] <cmn32480> busy enough that I can't get shit done.. but quiet enough that I wish I could concentrate
[22:04:05] * charon_ is suspiciously quiet in a deniable attempt to annoy cmn32480
[22:04:51] <cmn32480> #smake charon
[22:04:51] * MrPlow smakes charon upside the head with meatspin
[22:06:21] <charon_> what did i do?
[22:06:31] <cmn32480> you were quiet suspiciously
[22:06:36] <charon_> hmph
[22:06:51] <Fnord666> ~gday charon_
[22:06:53] * exec hideously copies a speck of the aids for charon_
[22:07:05] <cmn32480> damn...
[22:07:05] <charon_> ~gday fnord666
[22:07:07] * exec overratedly reticulates a handful of butt butter for fnord666
[22:08:46] <charon_> today, we're being quiet so that cmn32480 is not distracted by constant pings
[22:09:02] <cmn32480> lol
[22:09:03] <cmn32480> oh
[22:09:06] <cmn32480> it is after 5
[22:09:10] <cmn32480> be as loud as you want
[22:09:19] <charon_> and we are using cmn32480's name as little as possible
[22:10:15] <Fnord666> charon - ask cmn32480 about 1am this morning!
[22:10:45] <cmn32480> ahh.. the puking kid story
[22:11:20] <Fnord666> cmn32480 is grumpier than normal.
[22:11:39] <Fnord666> but it's after 5 so Happy Hour!
[22:12:31] <charon_> hey cmn32480, i hear you have a funny story to tell
[22:12:54] <cmn32480> kid vomited in bed.
[22:12:57] * cmn32480 is grumpy
[22:13:00] <charon_> oooh, they do that
[22:13:20] <charon_> stops around age 7-8
[22:14:09] <Fnord666> And starts again around age 21
[22:14:14] <charon_> heheh
[22:14:35] <charon_> at least then they clean it themselves
[22:14:51] <Fnord666> yup
[22:16:17] <charon_> man, i remember the first time i was drunk. it was so pathetic
[22:16:43] <cmn32480> she's 4
[22:16:55] <cmn32480> I can't fault the kid... but it was not what I needed last night at 1am
[22:18:01] <charon_> i hear ya. good on you for going instead of pretending you didn't hear her and making your wife go
[22:18:47] <cmn32480> we have an agreement on that
[22:18:51] <cmn32480> we both go
[22:19:10] <cmn32480> one cleans the linens.. the other cleans/compforts the kid
[22:20:43] <charon_> makes sense
[22:20:52] <cmn32480> nobody gets left out of the fun
[22:20:59] <charon_> lol
[22:21:12] <cmn32480> anyway... time for em to GTFO
[22:21:25] <charon_> ~gnight cmn32480
[22:21:31] * exec romantically scissors a fistful of win32s for cmn32480
[22:21:32] <cmn32480> ~gngiht charon
[22:21:33] <charon_> enjoy your x-boxery
[22:21:41] <cmn32480> might see you later.. might not
[22:21:47] <cmn32480> depends on how thigns go when I get home
[22:22:01] <charon_> look at that fnord, he's leaving us alone in the candy store
[22:22:41] <cmn32480> I know you cna't be trusted...
[22:22:59] <cmn32480> but it si all logged and journaled so we know who screwed up what
[22:23:20] * cmn32480 sets the bots to watch the FNG and retires for a while.
[22:23:26] <charon_> take care
[22:30:06] * nick hat tip cmn32480
[22:32:52] <charon_> holy buckets, it's nick!
[22:34:03] <nick> how is charon_ today
[22:34:42] <charon_> i am good. slept last night instead of stying up all night, so i have that going for me
[22:35:03] <charon_> and you?
[22:35:35] <takyon> I feel weird and bad
[22:36:02] <charon_> takyon: try slowing down to c
[22:36:19] * takyon hits the speed brake... later
[22:36:41] <charon_> wait a second. that message was from the future
[22:37:20] * takyon doesn't get arrested for insider trading
[22:38:24] <nick> takyon operates outside the constraints of a linear timeline
[22:39:26] <takyon> lets see if trump's speech was anything at all
[22:50:57] <nick> Trump attributed the addition of 8,000 jobs to "what's happening and the spirit and the hope.".
[22:53:13] <nick> takyon, as far as i can see it was only that and some stuff about support for Israel after the 'disrespect' from Obama
[22:53:19] <takyon> Pinning your hopes on SPRINT? that sounds like a goddamn joke
[22:53:42] <nick> and I thought trump becoming president was the punchline...
[22:54:31] <takyon> you've gotten the line, but not the punch yet
[22:55:02] <nick> it's an elaborate setup, can't wait for the payoff
[22:55:23] <takyon> I hope you like warm, fuzzy feelings
[22:55:24] <Fnord666> hey takyon!
[22:55:28] <takyon> hey fnord
[22:55:55] <nick> that feeling you get just before you die from hypothermia?
[22:56:39] <takyon> I was feeling more thermonuclear, but whatever sinks your ship
[22:56:54] <Fnord666> would that be hyperthermia?
[22:57:04] <takyon> ...yes
[22:57:08] <nick> touche
[22:57:26] <Fnord666> charon_ nick is touche'ing me again
[22:57:43] <Fnord666> see what happens when cmn32480 leaves?
[22:59:01] <takyon> so I think I will make a journal to dump an ongoing... dump of CES stories, and then decide from there whether I want to submit any of it
[22:59:08] <takyon> or let others do it, but it seems unlikely
[22:59:58] <Fnord666> that others will do it or that any of it will be submission worthy?
[23:00:13] <takyon> both!
[23:00:49] <takyon> here I'll give you a free sample
[23:00:50] <takyon> http://gizmodo.com
[23:01:31] <Fnord666> TANSTAAFL
[23:02:23] <takyon> it does require you to click on a gizmodo link
[23:02:56] <Fnord666> Ok that sounds horrible. microneedles that dig in then dissolve?
[23:04:13] <takyon> if it works tho... say goodbyte to "microbeads"
[23:04:24] <Fnord666> "The patches also have NFC chips, so they can communicate with the main device and your phone to “customize” your face needle experience"
[23:04:51] <Fnord666> something about "face needle experience" that sounds very Marque De Sade.
[23:05:25] <Fnord666> I get your point though.
[23:11:52] <nick> why did i click that link
[23:12:19] <charon_> i leave for 15 minutes and y'all go crazy. micro-needles?
[23:12:49] <charon_> also Fnord666: it's not touché without the é. i think he was being touchy
[23:13:48] <Fnord666> nick - you've been gizmodo'ed. Kinda like getting rick rolled.
[23:14:39] <charon_> where's bytram when i need him. i bet he knows how to put a spaider wrap on a box
[23:15:50] <Fnord666> isn't it just the reverse of taking it off?
[23:17:16] <charon_> i wasn't paying attention to how it was wrapped. thought the guy would buy the thing i unwrapped
[23:18:14] <charon_> but screw this job, i have a bright future as a samsung beauty products salesman
[23:18:39] <takyon> ma'am, we need to pierce your face now
[23:19:21] <charon_> it will only hurt for a few hours
[23:23:33] <nick> no pain no gain or something
[23:23:40] <Fnord666> queue the "it's been hurting me for years" jokes in 3..2..1..
[23:41:44] <charon_> well, i done screwed up now
[23:42:21] <charon_> i was messing around with the spider wrap, unwound it all the way and set it off
[23:46:48] <takyon> now thousands will be killed by a giant spider
[23:47:31] <charon_> finally stopped beeping. maybe the battery is out of juice
[23:48:03] <charon_> shelob the anti-shoplifting device has been vanquished
[23:48:31] <Fnord666> ;p;
[23:48:36] <Fnord666> or lol
[23:48:52] <charon_> i thought that was a creepy spider emoji
[23:49:40] <Fnord666> yeah, that's what it was. :)
[23:50:33] <Fnord666> back in a bit.