#editorial | Logs for 2016-12-01

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[00:03:00] <charon> GreatOutdoors: that poll you're in. it looks like flamebait
[00:05:08] <n1> aye, the poll is no good
[00:06:33] <GreatOutdoors> I just looked and left. I am not in it anymore.
[00:07:34] <n1> i have now deleted it
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[00:09:12] <Fnord666> Good evening #editorial!
[00:09:27] <charon> ~gday Fnord666
[00:09:28] * exec abnormally reverse-engineers a caravan of dumpster juice from Fnord666
[00:09:38] <Fnord666> ~gday charon
[00:09:39] * exec allegedly shoves a bucket of whoopass in charon
[00:10:25] <Fnord666> How's charon this evening?
[00:10:41] <charon> i am alright. waiting for work to be over
[00:10:47] <charon> and yourself?
[00:11:20] <Fnord666> Doing well. Done with work and settling in for the eve.
[00:11:56] <n1> hey Fnord666
[00:12:12] <Fnord666> Hey n1
[00:12:24] <Fnord666> How's your day been?
[00:13:47] <n1> uneventful
[00:14:52] <Fnord666> That's often the best way for it to go. Not sure I want to "live in interesting times" every day.
[00:16:17] <n1> aye, although it cannot be denied that we live in interesting times
[00:16:57] <Fnord666> Too true.
[00:17:42] <n1> there's enough interesting headlines today alone, outside of what's on SN.
[00:19:36] <Fnord666> Oh? I haven't had a chance to glance at the headlines yet.
[00:20:56] <Fnord666> More of a "head down and get work knocked out" kind of a day for me.
[00:21:31] <GreatOutdoors> I got a lot done today myself also... except for the couple hours I spent on a meeting.
[00:22:50] <charon> i did almost nothing, and feel slightly guilty about it
[00:22:52] <n1> getting a lot done is very useful, have not done so much of that myself lately, should really stop slacking so much
[00:23:46] <n1> charon, make the most of a relaxed day if it's weather making it slow and you still get paid!
[00:24:26] <charon> this is true. but there's a machine that needs fixing for which parts just arrived
[00:24:51] <charon> would have been a perfect day to tear into it, but i felt meh about doing it
[00:25:39] <n1> tomorrow you can show your initiative and get into it before someone finds something worse for you to do :p
[00:25:57] <charon> good point
[00:28:43] * n1 was a very good lazy employee
[00:31:51] <n1> i apply a similar logic now, projects have phases and if things get a head we can chill, but until then i don't like wasting time.
[00:31:53] <Fnord666> I always have work "squirreled away" that is mindless but needs to be done at some point. I save that for just those sorts of "meh" days.
[00:33:21] <n1> Fnord666, always something to do
[00:33:25] <charon> that's a good idea. mine is mostly customer driven. on a rainy day when no one is working, i don't have people asking me how to not chop their hands off with a chainsaw
[00:34:06] <Fnord666> I still remember the phrase "if you've got time to lean you've got time to clean"
[00:34:56] <Fnord666> n1 very true
[00:35:43] * n1 gets ready to write an angry complaint email
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[01:29:26] <Fnord666> Hey all
[01:29:34] <Bytram> Hay Awl!
[01:29:51] <Fnord666> hay y'all!
[01:30:15] <Fnord666> you know y'all is singular. All y'all is plural.
[01:30:26] <Bytram> eh? Awww!
[01:31:02] * Bytram actually knew that
[01:31:40] <Fnord666> Nice
[01:31:46] <Fnord666> spread the word!
[01:32:37] <Bytram> English has some shortcomings when it comes to singular and plural pronouns for all genders and quantities of
[01:32:44] <Bytram> people
[01:34:11] <n1> all y'all 'mericans didn't help that
[01:34:12] <Bytram> most glaringly, singular personal pronoun... "it" ?? Which is most often handled by [mis]using: "they', or, almost as bad: "one"
[01:34:38] <Bytram> one would find that to be a shortcoming
[01:34:54] <Fnord666> just one?
[01:35:23] <Bytram> my personal preference is to use: s/he
[01:35:54] <Bytram> that handles the subjective case, but then there is still objective, dative, and genitive.
[01:37:32] <Fnord666> Not sure how the objective case would work for that one.
[01:38:41] <Bytram> hmm, she | he ==> s/he
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[01:38:51] <Bytram> her | him ==> herm ??
[01:39:01] <Bytram> her | him ==> hirm ??
[01:39:06] <Bytram> ;)
[01:39:13] <Fnord666> herim?
[01:39:16] <Fnord666> himer?
[01:39:22] <Bytram> harem?
[01:39:51] <Bytram> also, hers | his ==> hirs ?
[01:39:55] <Bytram> heirs?
[01:39:57] <Bytram> ;)
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[01:41:24] * Bytram actually enjoyed his English classes in grade school until it suddenly became literature classes where one (heh!) needed to find the allegorical meaning of a story
[01:44:53] <Fnord666> That's when it became a game to find out what allegory the teacher/professor wanted you to find and then give it back to them. Kinda like consulting.
[01:45:17] <Bytram> Touche!
[01:45:55] * Bytram was really disappointed to find out that Moby Dick was not about a captain who was ticked off by a whale
[01:46:22] <Bytram> somethjing something gfighting with one's own limitations and shortcomings
[01:46:53] * Bytram thinks that "Forbidden Planet" did a much better job of it.
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[02:01:19] <Bytram> http://arstechnica.com
[02:01:20] <exec> └─ 13Mozilla and Tor release urgent update for Firefox 0-day under active attack | Ars Technica
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[12:46:25] <FatPhil> Any experienced eds awake?
[13:37:21] <Bytam|away> no
[13:37:30] * Bytam|away just fixed title on story...
[13:37:38] <Bytam|away> changed: California Courts Software Causing Wrongful Arrests and Extended Custody
[13:37:49] <Bytam|away> to be: California Courts' Software Causing Wrongful Arrests and Extended Custody
[13:38:27] <Bytam|away> o/w "courts" could be mis-construed as a verb as in "to court" like in "to woo"
[13:38:32] Bytam|away is now known as Bytram
[13:38:36] <Bytram> FatPhil: what's up?
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[13:54:17] <FatPhil> Bytram: I wanna know if my [Sic] containing corrections is allowed in the water wave laser story I just promoted.
[13:54:28] <Bytram> k
[13:54:32] <Bytram> lemme check
[13:54:38] <Bytram> or plaid
[13:54:38] <Bytram> or polka dot
[13:54:39] <Bytram> =)
[13:54:59] <FatPhil> It was just so jarring to see how "approximately 1000" is very different from "1014"
[13:55:15] -!- n1_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[13:55:20] <Bytram> oh, in that case... "K" =)
[13:55:30] <Bytram> clicky
[13:56:13] <Bytram> ok, first observation.... story ref is to science daily...
[13:56:34] <Bytram> 98% of the time, there is a link in THAT story to the original materials
[13:56:45] <FatPhil> that link didn't resolve for me
[13:56:54] <FatPhil> took me to the uni's home page
[13:56:57] <Bytram> http://www.technion.ac.il
[13:57:07] <exec> └─ 131st Water-Wave Laser | Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
[13:57:09] <Bytram> clicky
[13:57:12] <Bytram> waity
[13:57:18] <Bytram> worked for me
[13:57:31] <Bytram> is butt ugly, though
[13:58:06] <Bytram> oh... 1014 s/b 10^14
[13:58:20] <Bytram> (I think)
[13:59:06] * Bytram checks the link to the actual paper: http://www.nature.com
[13:59:23] <Bytram> only abstract is avail
[13:59:53] * Bytram tries: http://dx.doi.org
[13:59:54] <exec> └─ 13Error: DOI Not Found
[14:00:31] <Bytram> okay, same. abstract only... tries search on DOI
[14:01:04] <chromas> that redirects to the nature site for me
[14:01:52] <Bytram> same here
[14:02:56] <Bytram> hmmm, no joy
[14:03:33] <Bytram> hmmm, what is the freq of visible light
[14:03:57] <Bytram> https://en.wikipedia.org
[14:03:58] <exec> └─ 13Visible spectrum - Wikipedia
[14:04:19] <Bytram> The visible spectrum is the portion of the electromagnetic spectrum that is visible to the human eye. Electromagnetic radiation in this range of wavelengths is called visible light or simply light. A typical human eye will respond to wavelengths from about 390 to 700 nm.[1] In terms of frequency, this corresponds to a band in the vicinity of 430–770 THz.
[14:04:41] <Bytram> so, 4.3-7.7 x 10^14
[14:04:44] <Bytram> =)
[14:04:57] <Bytram> so, looks like 1014 should have been 10^14 in the story.
[14:05:11] <FatPhil> that was my conclusion
[14:05:22] <Bytram> independently verified!
[14:05:31] <Bytram> I hadn't read as far as your [sic] !!
[14:06:18] <chromas> maybe it was missing <sup> tags
[14:06:35] <Bytram> kinda...
[14:06:53] <Bytram> on science daily, a "view source" reveals: "(1014 oscillations per second)"
[14:07:01] <Bytram> on http://www.technion.ac.il
[14:07:07] <FatPhil> copy/paste, i'd bet
[14:07:07] <Bytram> view source reveals:
[14:07:10] <exec> └─ 131st Water-Wave Laser | Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
[14:07:17] <Bytram> " (1014 oscillations per second)"
[14:07:17] <Bytram> oops
[14:07:28] <Bytram> (10</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">14</span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> oscillations per second)
[14:07:48] <FatPhil> God almighty, that's retarded
[14:07:53] <Bytram> GIGO
[14:07:54] <Bytram> nodnod
[14:08:19] <Bytram> then again, it appears that, for them, English is not their native tongue
[14:08:40] <FatPhil> the language they sux at is HTML, though
[14:08:56] * Bytram shudders to think of HTML written in Hebrew
[14:09:03] <chromas> quick, send 'em an email
[14:09:09] <Bytram> be my guest
[14:10:15] <Bytram> FatPhil: trying to confirm... did you say that this link: http://www.technion.ac.il
[14:10:21] <Bytram> just brought you to the site's home page?
[14:10:23] <exec> └─ 131st Water-Wave Laser | Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
[14:11:19] <FatPhil> Bytram: my mistake, I didn't see the "materials" link, only the institute one
[14:11:25] <Bytram> nod nod
[14:11:56] <FatPhil> it's not underlined, and only distinguishes itself from the body text using colour
[14:11:58] <Bytram> in that case, if you would please change the link in the SN story to point to Technion link, that should do it....
[14:12:05] <FatPhil> will do
[14:12:07] <Bytram> Very good catch!
[14:12:26] <Bytram> FatPhil++ Keen eye
[14:12:26] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 2
[14:12:42] <Bytram> oh, and maybe include a link to the abstract
[14:12:54] <Bytram> note that the full article is paywalled
[14:13:25] <Bytram> <p>Full article is paywalled, an <a href="...">abstract</a> is available.</p>
[14:14:29] * Bytram debates including the DOI in there somewhere, and how to do so cleanly
[14:14:45] * Bytram leaves it to your discretion
[14:17:06] <Bytram> http://arstechnica.com
[14:17:07] <exec> └─ 13You can now build, cost, and launch an Atlas V rocket from your browser | Ars Technica
[14:17:22] <Bytram> hmmm: http://www.nokia.com
[14:17:23] <exec> └─ 13Phones | Nokia Phones
[14:17:43] <Bytram> #rss-bot had title being that Nokia was coming back... to Android
[14:19:34] <Bytram> break time
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[14:32:08] <Bytram> breaking completed ;)
[14:32:11] <Bytram> janrinok: !!
[14:32:28] <Bytram> wb, and in your proper "attire" =)
[14:33:10] <janrinok> Bytram, !!
[14:33:25] <janrinok> still no znc, but we are getting there
[14:34:18] * Bytram can't help but think of the metal Zinc whenever I see "ZNC"
[14:38:15] <janrinok> still working long hours?
[14:42:29] <Bytram> yes and no
[14:42:29] <Bytram> have todya off
[14:42:44] <Bytram> after a six-day stretch -- first day having 17 1/2 hrs
[14:42:47] <janrinok> so laundry, shopping and catching up on you missed sleep
[14:42:55] <janrinok> your*
[14:42:57] <Bytram> laundry is in dryer atm =)
[14:43:03] <janrinok> thought so
[14:43:08] <Bytram> did some groceries after work earlier in the week
[14:43:17] <Bytram> sleep is for wusses
[14:43:23] <Bytram> j/k
[14:43:34] <Bytram> slept 11p to about 5a
[14:43:40] <Bytram> will prolly take a nap this pm
[14:44:39] <janrinok> I've just woken up from mine
[14:45:05] <Bytram> this AM, I found there were updates to both Pale Moon and Thunderbird, so did a D/L of each, installed, and had to reboot my box for PM update to finish
[14:50:46] <Bytram> http://arstechnica.com
[14:50:47] <exec> └─ 13SpaceX has a tentative return to flight date of December 16 | Ars Technica
[14:51:30] <Bytram> http://phys.org
[14:51:32] <exec> └─ 13Proposed quantum nano-MRI could generate images with angstrom-level resolution
[14:52:08] <janrinok> got forced to leave the site yesterday - there were so many 503s due to DDoS activity reducing cross-atlantic comms. Eventually the same problem was also seen by charon and nq
[14:52:10] <janrinok> n1
[14:52:28] <Bytram> so I saw in the scrtoolback
[14:52:59] <Bytram> *scrollback
[14:53:23] <janrinok> I understood - you have obviously been studying at the cmn32480 school of typing
[14:53:58] <Bytram> aiming for a spot as guest lecturer
[14:54:08] <FatPhil> janrinok: I just seconded your "[4] Groundwater Helium Level Could Signal Potential Risk of Earthquake", can you or someone check I didn't fuckup, please
[14:54:33] <janrinok> of course, I 2nd'ed your story a few minutes ago. Good correction.
[14:55:48] <FatPhil> Done a lot of writing this week. I finally sumbitted my section of a beer book to the editor this morning.
[14:56:03] <FatPhil> There's no money in writing, but I enjoy it more than $dayjob
[14:56:17] <janrinok> FatPhil, looks good to me, thank you
[14:56:35] <janrinok> and the book research is always a bonus...
[15:16:41] <n1> ahoy
[15:16:53] <janrinok> ~gday n1
[15:16:54] * exec insensitively imagines a 55 gallon drum of pants with n1
[15:17:48] <n1> how goes
[15:19:16] <janrinok> good for me, and currently no bad hackers spoiling my fun
[15:19:56] <janrinok> and with you? Montevideo 'burbs still providing entertainment?
[15:23:15] <n1> yeah, all is good here. hopefully going to make progress on more long term accommodation today
[15:29:22] <Bytram> http://threatpost.com
[15:29:27] <Bytram> n1: !!
[15:29:56] <n1> Bytram !!
[15:30:05] <Bytram> =)
[15:30:11] <Bytram> how's things?
[15:36:17] <n1> hungry right now, and in need of a shower
[15:36:20] <n1> how is Bytram
[15:36:55] <Bytram> just finished laundry... gonna make a meal and catch a nap
[15:43:27] <n1> thanks for reminding me to bring my laundry in from yesterday
[15:43:55] <Bytram> hth!
[17:07:01] Bytram is now known as Bytram|fite
[17:12:18] Bytram|fite is now known as Bytram
[17:12:20] <Bytram> http://go.theregister.com
[17:12:22] <exec> └─ 13Wearable eats wearable: Fitbit 'to buy Pebble' with a steal of a deal • The Register
[17:31:54] * Bytram just submitted a story re: fix being made available to fight currently-being-exploited zero-day for Firefox and Thunderbird (don't know about Pale Moon)
[17:41:36] <takyon> deleted periodiuc table of elements articles, bytram
[17:41:40] <takyon> they are from JUNE 2016
[17:42:14] <Bytram> ummm, I thought the June notice was the date when they were submitted for consideration... and these reports were CONFIRMING that they were accepted.
[17:42:25] <Bytram> pls take another look
[17:42:27] <takyon> both articles were dated june 2016
[17:42:31] <takyon> soooooooooooo
[17:42:36] <Bytram> hmmm
[17:43:17] <Bytram> see this one: http://phys.org
[17:43:19] <exec> └─ 13Periodic table expands with elements named after Japan, Moscow, Tennessee
[17:43:35] <Bytram> published today... I wasx trying to find other, better links to go along with it
[17:44:02] * Bytram does not like how phys.org bloviates its own, not-so-helpful links
[17:44:20] <Bytram> my bad if I found outdated stories to replace it, but it is news that they have been approved, nonetheless.
[17:44:31] <takyon> https://iupac.org
[17:44:33] <exec> └─ 13IUPAC Announces the Names of the Elements 113, 115, 117, and 118 - IUPAC | International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry
[17:44:35] <takyon> https://iupac.org
[17:44:37] <exec> └─ 13IUPAC is naming the four new elements nihonium, moscovium, tennessine, and oganesson - IUPAC | International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry
[17:44:39] <takyon> just use these two links
[17:44:43] <takyon> first one is from Nov 30
[17:44:49] <takyon> ~submit https://iupac.org
[17:44:54] <exec> └─ 13IUPAC Announces the Names of the Elements 113, 115, 117, and 118 - IUPAC | International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry
[17:44:55] <Bytram> thanks
[17:45:04] <takyon> #submit https://iupac.org
[17:45:07] <exec> └─ 13IUPAC Announces the Names of the Elements 113, 115, 117, and 118 - IUPAC | International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry
[17:45:08] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[17:45:08] <Bytram> would love to chat, but I really gtg... have an appt to get to this PM
[17:45:27] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[17:45:34] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[17:45:45] <takyon> whoops
[17:45:49] <takyon> piece of shit
[19:37:38] -!- charon [charon!~charon@Soylent/Staff/Editor/charon] has joined #editorial
[19:37:38] -!- mode/#editorial [+v charon] by Hephaestus
[19:38:05] <charon> ~gday #editorial
[19:38:06] * exec literally irritates a barrage of jesus juice with #editorial
[19:38:57] <janrinok> hi charon!
[19:39:22] <charon> how are things janrinok?
[19:40:30] <janrinok> good, and you?
[19:41:01] <charon> not bad. day off from work today, so i slept very late
[19:41:07] <janrinok> good for you
[19:45:35] <charon> i think i answered an editorial objection without being too snarky in this thread
[19:45:40] <charon> https://soylentnews.org
[19:45:42] <exec> └─ 13SoylentNews Comments | Treating Antibiotic Resistant Bacteria at the Wastewater Plant
[19:45:57] <janrinok> looking
[19:48:07] <janrinok> I think your response was fine - but I'm not sure that your statement was accurate :) If we can find a link around a paywall then use it, as long as it is a link that is available to the public i.e. does not require a specific membership or something similar
[19:48:42] <charon> yeah, i was going by what cmn32480 told me
[19:49:03] <janrinok> but, the bottom line is, if in doubt, don't use it. We only need a legal challenge (not even to be proven guilty) and we are broke.
[19:49:27] <janrinok> cmn32480's advice is sound but it might not have been clearly explained.
[19:50:20] <janrinok> you will also notice that, on both the challenges that you have had from the community, that other members of the community also come in with their support.
[19:50:28] <charon> yay
[19:50:39] <janrinok> those that have been around for a while understand the limitations that we have to place upon ourselves
[19:51:23] <charon> i looked through that person's comments and s/he has complained about this exact issue many times before
[19:55:10] <janrinok> his 'grow some balls' statement is just crap, and he probably knows it
[19:56:03] <janrinok> I've just made a comment too, telling him that we would require much larger contributions to the site if we want to be able to employ legal representation.
[19:56:35] <charon> i think that's the one that made me respond again
[19:57:38] * n1 clicks
[19:58:18] <charon> it's a bomb!
[19:59:00] <janrinok> charon, there is no problem to linking to the full article, what we must not do is quote the full article. 'Fair use' I think it is in the US.
[20:00:03] <charon> even if the only place to find it is in the quasi-illegal site like sci-hub.cc?
[20:00:21] <n1> that was quite the rude comment
[20:01:22] <janrinok> well, if we are only linking to it I don't see that we have broken any laws - but as I am a Brit my legal knowledge means diddly-squat in the US
[20:01:58] <n1> we wouldn't link to a torrent site to say 'download the movie here' in a star wars story or some shit
[20:03:06] <n1> SN is a PBC, it's not in the position to do the civil disobedience by testing 'unjust laws' or interpretations, and linking to site's like that is very much in a grey area and can easily be seen as pushing the limits of freedom of speech/press/expression
[20:03:16] <janrinok> no, we wouldn't because the US has decided that linking to a torrent is the same as making available, but I'm not sure that it applies to every hyperlink - although US law is fickle
[20:04:06] <janrinok> I'm just as happy not to use it
[20:04:15] <charon> i would certainly rather err on the side of caution. takyon said by including the full DOI anyone who knows how to find it can do so
[20:04:37] <charon> and anyone who does not know, probably doesn't care enough
[20:04:56] <janrinok> seems a fair decision to reach
[20:05:23] <n1> it's nuanced, we can like to sci-hub.cc or tpb in a story about those websites, but it's a very different thing from encouraging/promoting people to do something that is questionable in many jurisdictions
[20:05:35] <charon> and my friend ayn anonymous can come link it for us. i even upvoted her
[20:06:07] <janrinok> brb - nursing duties call
[20:07:58] <charon> how you, n1?
[20:09:42] <n1> can't complain
[20:09:45] <n1> you?
[20:10:07] <charon> ok. a little logy from sleeping too late
[20:13:25] <janrinok> gtg - more required than usual. See you guys tomorrow
[20:13:31] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[21:49:05] -!- charon has quit [Quit: Going to sleep]
[21:59:15] Bytram is now known as Rumplestiltskin
[21:59:36] Rumplestiltskin is now known as Bytram
[22:31:55] <Bytram> https://www.washingtonpost.com
[22:31:57] <exec> └─ 13Six maps that show the anatomy of America’s vast infrastructure - Washington Post
[22:39:11] <chromas> neat
[23:12:26] -!- Fnord666 [Fnord666!~Fnord666@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Fnord666] has joined #editorial
[23:12:26] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Fnord666] by Hephaestus
[23:12:46] <Fnord666> evening all!
[23:21:25] <n1> beep
[23:46:44] <Fnord666> n1 - you there?
[23:47:05] <n1> aye, just beering and smoking
[23:47:20] <Fnord666> sounds like a good plan.
[23:47:39] <Fnord666> I'm looking at bradley13's story about clearcutting forests.
[23:47:44] <n1> i am also forced to eat some potato wedges as i bought some forgetting i had a big bag of fries and no space in the freezer
[23:47:47] <n1> it's a hard life
[23:48:00] * n1 goes to look
[23:48:21] <Fnord666> way to take a potato for the team!
[23:48:57] <Fnord666> Specifically looking at the term Eurocrats.
[23:49:49] <n1> it's not the worst thing they've been called
[23:50:58] <Fnord666> the second paragraph also implies a little "lining of the pockets" which I didn't see any basis for in the source article.
[23:51:33] <Fnord666> Do we consider such things the opinion of the submitter?
[23:51:49] <n1> it's not really ideal
[23:52:05] <n1> it's a fairly baseless and simplistic accusation
[23:52:39] <Fnord666> I also felt it lessened the impact/meaning of the actual story.
[23:52:50] <n1> if he said "such as x who has been associated with energy firm y through z" or something similar i'd be more happy with it
[23:53:14] <n1> i agree
[23:53:17] <Fnord666> I would be as well but I didn't see anything.
[23:54:18] <Fnord666> Should I drop on a note on it to consider it for rejection?
[23:54:31] <Fnord666> add a note to the submission
[23:54:42] <n1> i think the source for the submission is good
[23:55:11] <Fnord666> I do to. I wish there was a way to go back to the submitter and have them write it up again with some guidance.
[23:55:28] <Fnord666> I don't want to rewrite the submission under his byline but not his words.
[23:55:30] <n1> you are allowed to remove things like that from a submission
[23:55:41] <n1> if the core of a submission is good, it can be shaped up into something decent
[23:55:44] <Fnord666> Leaves things pretty thin after than
[23:55:52] <Fnord666> after that
[23:55:56] <n1> use some of TFA in a blockquote
[23:56:02] <Fnord666> k
[23:57:05] <n1> No one complains when a summary has more information and less bullshit
[23:57:27] <Fnord666> I liked the lead including the opening statement, but the second paragraph's got to go.
[23:57:37] <Fnord666> I agree.
[23:58:06] <Fnord666> I'll pull in some blockquote from TFA and drop the second paragraph.
[23:58:12] <n1> sounds like a plan
[23:58:14] <Fnord666> thanks for the advice
[23:58:29] <Fnord666> n1++
[23:58:30] <Bender> karma - n1: 32