#editorial | Logs for 2016-10-21

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[00:52:21] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
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[02:15:42] <NotSanguine> Hi guys. I just finished editing the Mars lander article. I set it to non-display, as I was hoping someone would take a look and make sure I didn't scre anything up.
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[02:16:34] -!- mode/#editorial [+v NotSanguine] by Hephaestus
[02:17:37] * TheMightyBuzzard points at Bytram
[02:17:54] * Bytram points at TheMightyBuzzard
[02:18:01] <Bytram> NotSanguine: k
[02:18:04] <Bytram> in a bit
[02:18:44] <NotSanguine> Bytram: Thanks! Your feedback (if any is necessary) would be appreciated.
[02:18:51] <Bytram> np!
[02:21:20] <Bytram> NotSanguine: appreciate your chipping in with the stories!
[02:24:10] <Bytram> NotSanguine: just a couple of things... I'll talk you through 'em if you'd like?
[02:24:32] <NotSanguine> No worries. yes, please do. one second
[02:24:42] <Bytram> time's up!
[02:24:44] <Bytram> ;)
[02:24:46] <NotSanguine> Okay, I'm there
[02:24:49] <Bytram> k
[02:25:04] <Bytram> the opening paragraph...
[02:25:12] <Bytram> re-read the last sentence
[02:25:21] <Bytram> I think a word out
[02:25:39] <Bytram> "into the proper orbit and it working as expected."
[02:25:40] <NotSanguine> Yes. It will be remedied.
[02:26:06] <NotSanguine> Now will read "...and is working as expected."
[02:26:13] <Bytram> great!
[02:27:04] <Bytram> when I have quoted text from other sources I strive to maintain their layout.
[02:27:11] <NotSanguine> the original submission was really minimal with the quotes, so I added a bunch from the BBC article. But left out great chunks
[02:27:18] <Bytram> BBC is [in]famous for one-sentence paragraphs
[02:27:25] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:27:46] <Bytram> looks like they submitted the story as "Plain Text"
[02:28:03] <NotSanguine> I believe I did. I see it. I added s but I'll add some more
[02:28:04] <Bytram> which means each line they submitted is terminated with a " "
[02:28:10] <Bytram> hold on
[02:28:17] <Bytram> better:
[02:28:31] <Bytram> replace:
[02:28:33] <Bytram> For the moment, all Esa has to work with is the relatively large volume of engineering data Schiaparelli managed to transmit back to the "mothership" that dropped it off at Mars - the Trace Gas Orbiter.
[02:28:34] <Bytram> 
[02:28:36] <Bytram> with:
[02:28:45] <Bytram> For the moment, all Esa has to work with is the relatively large volume of engineering data Schiaparelli managed to transmit back to the "mothership" that dropped it off at Mars - the Trace Gas Orbiter.
[02:28:45] <Bytram> 
[02:29:38] <Bytram> the tag denotes it is a paragraph and contains semantic meaning about the contents, whereas a (break) tag denotes strictly layout.
[02:29:51] <NotSanguine> Okay. I can do that. Although using too much annoys me
[02:29:56] <NotSanguine> Yes, I know.
[02:30:18] <NotSanguine> You point WRT to matching the source's formatting is well taken
[02:30:21] <Bytram> Is why I don't like BBC's one sentence paragraphs... but it is, what it is, so just go with it.
[02:30:22] <NotSanguine> I'll make it so.
[02:30:59] <Bytram> there are rare occasions when I'll take liberties with that, but the reader should expect that a quote is, well, an actual quote.
[02:31:14] <Bytram> My exceptions are:
[02:31:16] <NotSanguine> I'm with you.
[02:31:24] <Bytram> 1.) to add [sic] after a typo
[02:31:40] <NotSanguine> of course. that's standard editing practice.
[02:31:45] <Bytram> 2.) italicize names of publications like journals and newspapers
[02:32:12] <Bytram> even if it was not like that in the original, I'll add 'em in to make the material more understandable to the reader
[02:32:29] <Bytram> so, for example, The New York Times
[02:32:50] <Bytram> and, yes, the word "The" is part of the name of that publication
[02:33:46] <NotSanguine> I agree. I thought I'd included enough s to take care of the spacing, but not so. will work fine.
[02:33:49] <Bytram> ^^^ me is sensitive to that for some reason; I don't know why.
[02:33:54] <Bytram> nice
[02:33:57] <NotSanguine> Yes, I see that. Updated.
[02:34:20] <NotSanguine> words have meaning, and names have power. :)
[02:34:39] <NotSanguine> Names should be used correctly.
[02:34:54] <Bytram> this is more stylistic, but in the interests of not having gobs of vertical white-space in the story, I prefer to put the ellipsis at the beginning of a paragraph, rather than in a paragraph of its own.
[02:35:14] <NotSanguine> I'll see what that looks like
[02:35:22] <Bytram> Yep, just ask Moses at the Burning Bush!
[02:37:04] <NotSanguine> I don't know. I think an additional after the ellipsis is in order, no?
[02:37:20] <NotSanguine> Sorry. I updated
[02:38:25] <Bytram> let me reload
[02:38:56] <Bytram> Much better!
[02:39:26] <NotSanguine> I think an additional line break, no?
[02:39:31] <Bytram> curious, what browser do you use?
[02:39:39] <NotSanguine> Firefox ESR
[02:39:43] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:40:18] <Bytram> let me make a few changes, then you can reload it in a different tab and see what I did... k?
[02:40:53] <NotSanguine> Does "nod nod" that mean..oh, that moron uses Firefox, or does that mean add another line break?
[02:41:14] <NotSanguine> Knock yourself out. Let me know and I'll load it up again
[02:41:16] <Bytram> no, that means I am familiar with that one. (and I approve of the ESR)
[02:41:51] <NotSanguine> Yeah, updates every 4-6 weeks suck.
[02:41:58] <Bytram> btw, for future reference, [Preview] is your friend... it'll balance tags for ya (may not put 'em exactly where you want em, but still)
[02:42:24] <NotSanguine> Yes. I used it a bunch before saving/updating
[02:44:14] <Bytram> okay, load it, then hit preview, then take a look
[02:44:39] * Bytram has no idea why preview needs to be invoked on initial load to get the proper layout/indentation.
[02:45:13] <NotSanguine> I really dislike having the ellipsis on the same line as the text
[02:45:35] <Bytram> I'm open to hearing why.
[02:46:34] <NotSanguine> I get your point about whitespace, but having text, break, ellipsis, break, text makes it more readable IMHO
[02:47:13] <NotSanguine> The extra break would add a little whitespace, but it balances things out
[02:47:32] <Bytram> I agree there is a tradeoff
[02:47:57] <Bytram> for me, on my computer, that story takes up the better part of my screen's available display area
[02:47:58] <NotSanguine> You're the bossman, so I'll do it your way if it's important to you
[02:48:49] <Bytram> it's not so much I'm the boss, but we strive to have a consistent layout no matter who does the editing...
[02:49:13] <Bytram> we each have our unique aspects, but there is still an effort to be somewhat consistent for the site.
[02:49:39] <Bytram> were you previously on /. ??
[02:49:41] <NotSanguine> I see your point. I hadn't noticed the ellipsis on the same line as the text. If that's the way everybody's doing it, I will too.
[02:49:55] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:50:26] <NotSanguine> Not in a long time. And as I recall, during the year or so I was editing here, I always put in the whitespace. but I'm open to change
[02:50:58] <Bytram> there is a bit of a possible confusion as to whether the elided text was from within that particular paragraph or not, but the savings in vertical white-space seem to be worth it to me.
[02:51:17] * Bytram was reading /. before they had UIDs there.
[02:51:21] <NotSanguine> Consistency is more important than my personal stylistic peccadilloes.
[02:51:28] <NotSanguine> As much as it will pain me :)
[02:51:39] * Bytram offers an aspririn
[02:51:47] <NotSanguine> I had a 5 digit uid there.
[02:52:12] <NotSanguine> So, just a youngster in ./ years...barely out of diapers you might say :)
[02:52:15] <Bytram> i watched that site go through several re-"skins", but one thing it retained -- information dense display
[02:52:47] <Bytram> my uid there was 6-digit as I was very hesitant to put my info out there in order to sign up for a nick.
[02:52:57] <NotSanguine> Actually, i'd say "text-dense" rather than information-dense in many cases :)
[02:53:06] <Bytram> I sit corrected!
[02:53:28] <Bytram> I had a 2nd chance where their DB exploded and everyone had to signup for nicks, again.
[02:53:51] <Bytram> as it approached 200k, I finally bit the bullet and signed up.
[02:54:07] <NotSanguine> Which is something I like much more about SN. We tend to be (well, at least until the election madness started) much more info dense.
[02:54:30] <Bytram> so, when got wind of a fork of /. during the slashcott, I didn't waste any time in tracking it down and signing up, before it was announced. =)
[02:54:42] <Bytram> agreed.
[02:54:57] <NotSanguine> The "beta" sucked on my browser and Bennett Haselton was the last straw for me.
[02:55:03] <Bytram> oh, one other observation about the story
[02:55:19] <NotSanguine> Yes?
[02:55:26] <Bytram> the BBC seems to do initial caps where in the US we would tend to do all caps...
[02:55:39] <NotSanguine> You mean for ESA?
[02:55:47] <Bytram> for example, BBC has "Esa" and "Nasa" where on this side of the pond, it'd be "EsA" and "NASA"
[02:55:50] <NotSanguine> I just left it as they did
[02:55:56] <NotSanguine> yup.
[02:55:56] <Bytram> right!
[02:56:14] <Bytram> when quoting, *quote*
[02:56:33] <NotSanguine> I noticed it, and it annoyed me, but I realised (see what I did there?) the difference and left it alone
[02:56:58] <NotSanguine> Not sure what you mean
[02:57:00] <Bytram> there's a part of me that would like to see one more conversation-starter sentence after the blockquote, but it's not necessary
[02:57:24] <Bytram> oh, just htat when quoting what someone else wrote, it's not up to us to fix their conventions
[02:57:26] <NotSanguine> I thought about it, but it usually comes out pretty snarky from me. :)
[02:57:33] <NotSanguine> I agree
[02:57:44] <Bytram> also comes about in things like "color" vs "colour" and the like
[02:58:11] <Bytram> if it's a UK source, and they like the 'u' in there, then we keep it.
[02:58:12] <NotSanguine> yes. and monetise and all the rest
[02:58:20] <Bytram> 'zactly
[02:58:29] <Bytram> so, looks good to me!
[02:58:33] <Bytram> well done!
[02:58:53] <NotSanguine> As for a question/statement at the end, this type of article doesn't really lend itself to that
[02:59:04] <NotSanguine> Thanks. I'll set it to "display"
[02:59:14] <Bytram> I remember when I was first editing and how much it seemed there was for me to learn, but it wasn't too long before it became second nature.
[02:59:39] <NotSanguine> Don't forget, I was doing this for a year or so before I went on my little hiatus
[02:59:46] <Bytram> I agree that this story does not need an extra sentence at the end.
[02:59:51] <Bytram> true
[03:00:23] <NotSanguine> I remember. I just didn't want to just go off and set things in motion until I got some feedback. It has been a while.
[03:00:29] <Bytram> OTOH, there was a point where things went from active, conscious thought, and then *poof*, seemed like easy-peasie
[03:00:32] <NotSanguine> Thank you for your comments and your help.
[03:00:43] <Bytram> a pleasure; I appreciate your receptivity!
[03:01:03] <Bytram> and, even more so, so glad to have you back in the saddle!
[03:01:18] <NotSanguine> While we won't "hang seperately" it helps if we hang together. :)
[03:01:35] <Bytram> Patrick Henry?
[03:01:58] <NotSanguine> I thought it was Ben Franklin, but sure we can say it's that firebrand instead. :)
[03:02:34] <NotSanguine> Honestly, I kind of missed it. It keeps me looking at news and new information. I find editing rather stimulating
[03:03:02] <NotSanguine> I'm glad I didn't have to explain the reference. That's always painful :)
[03:03:02] <Bytram> I've seen a lot of stuff attributed to Ben, that really wasn't his... I think people remember the gist of thew quote, and then "it was one of those guys back then" and the one they are best able to remember is good ol' Ben
[03:03:28] <Bytram> I'm big on memorable phrases and reflections.
[03:03:37] <NotSanguine> And he was pretty old by the time everything hit the fan too.
[03:03:41] <Bytram> have collected hundreds of 'em
[03:03:48] <Bytram> true that
[03:04:16] <NotSanguine> Yes. I know it sounds trite, but the Unix fortune database has oodles of them.
[03:04:50] <Bytram> I'd hate to admit how many of the ones I collected came from the bottom of pages here and on /. =)
[03:05:24] <Bytram> and, with that, I'm gonna take a short break.
[03:05:26] <NotSanguine> Why? knowledge is good regardless of the source.
[03:05:34] <NotSanguine> Hasta la pasta, Bytram
[03:05:38] <Bytram> LOL!
[03:05:57] * Bytram never heard that one before... I *like* it!
[03:06:02] <Bytram> biab
[03:06:31] <NotSanguine> I'd love to say I made it up, but I didn't. Use it frequently. later on.
[04:20:06] <takyon> fbvvbvbvbbvvbvb
[04:37:42] <Bytram> takyon: Did you fall asleep on your keyboard?
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[12:15:53] <Bytram> cmn32480: good morning!
[12:16:55] <Bytram> cmn32480: I'm confused by this comment; was wondering if you could please take a look? https://soylentnews.org
[12:18:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's not confusing, the commenter is correct
[12:18:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's not a reboot, it's an original prequel
[12:18:42] <Bytram> and where, in the story, does it say it is a reboot?
[12:19:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh, fair nuff
[12:19:14] <Bytram> did Imiss somethin?
[12:19:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> "If the reboot is a hit, it seems likely that characters like Charlie could be seen in future installments of a possible franchise."
[12:19:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> but that's in a quote
[12:20:31] <Bytram> coffee++
[12:20:31] <Bender> karma - coffee: 59
[12:20:36] <Bytram> here's the comment:
[12:20:36] <Bytram> Summary needs correcting. It seems that this is not a remake of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" but is original work based on the character of Wonka, in other settings. Before he became a recluse in the factory, and after Charlie wins the competition, he had many other adventures.
[12:20:47] <Bytram> the commentor says it is not a "remake"
[12:21:07] <Bytram> the TFS says, at most, it is a "reboot"
[12:21:15] <Bytram> is different, right?
[12:21:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> "reboot" is essentially the same as a remake. neither are accurate.
[12:21:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> but that's on the quoted party not us, though we could clarify.
[12:22:28] <Bytram> not to me. A remake is what was done with Johnny Depp did to the original Oscar Wilde version. A reboot is what Abrams did to star trek
[12:22:54] <Bytram> remake == same story with different actors and interpretations of roles
[12:23:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, and this isn't. it's meant to be a prequel not a reboot.
[12:23:07] <Bytram> reboot == restart at some (earlier) part of the story line
[12:23:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's not meant to change the story but to tell another story.
[12:23:38] <Bytram> better example of a reboot would be the "Star Trek - Enterprise" series
[12:23:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> at this point at least
[12:23:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, that's not a reboot. nothing was changed really.
[12:24:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> that was just telling another story.
[12:24:14] <Bytram> yeah, you are right...
[12:24:16] <Bytram> coffee++
[12:24:16] <Bender> karma - coffee: 60
[12:24:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> being_right++
[12:24:24] <Bender> karma - being_right: 1
[12:24:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:24:29] <Bender> karma - coffee: 61
[12:24:39] <Bytram> okay, another word for a reboot might be "prequel"?
[12:25:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> a better word not a synonym though.
[12:25:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> but we don't need to go changing the quote
[12:25:32] <Bytram> nod nod; did not plan to.
[12:26:32] <Bytram> my (tentative) reply:
[12:26:32] <Bytram> I reread the summary (and made some minor formatting changes and added an obit) but am failing to see what else needs to be changed. Nowhere in the summary do I see it saying that it is a "remake". As I understand it, they are using the character of Willy Wonka in a different story.
[12:26:46] <Bytram> s/understand/read/
[12:26:48] <exec> <Bytram> I reread the summary (and made some minor formatting changes and added an obit) but am failing to see what else needs to be changed. Nowhere in the summary do I see it saying that it is a "remake". As I read it, they are using the character of Willy Wonka in a different story.
[12:27:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> s/.*/"reboot" was in a quote. We don't change quotes./
[12:28:01] <exec> <TheMightyBuzzard> "reboot" was in a quote. We don't change quotes.
[12:29:19] <Bytram> good point
[12:29:21] <Bytram> I reread the summary (and made some minor formatting changes and added an obit) but am failing to see what else needs to be changed. Nowhere in the summary do I see it saying that it is a "remake". As I understand it, they are using the character of Willy Wonka in a different story. Further, the word "reboot" was in quoted text — we don't change quotes.
[12:32:03] <Bytram> Further, if the word "reboot" is of concern, it was in quoted text — we don't change quotes.
[12:32:12] <Bytram> ^^ is what I'm going with
[12:32:22] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: thanks for the feedback / discussion!
[12:36:20] <Bytram> ahhh, now I noticed the comment's subject: "Original/Origin?"
[12:36:30] <Bytram> someone changed the quoted text.
[12:38:26] <Bytram> I remember stumbling over the word "origin" when I first processed the story, and then figured it out. Looks like it got changed later... I've reverted that change back to "origin":
[12:38:27] <Bytram> Sources reveal that the film will not be an origin tale, but a standalone movie focused on Wonka and his early adventures.
[12:46:10] <Bytram> final version of my comment: https://soylentnews.org
[12:51:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> knod knod
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