#editorial | Logs for 2016-07-27

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[11:58:37] <takyon> your story was a dupe zz_janrinok
[11:59:49] <takyon> I used the delete reason box, so the link should have been sent to your inbox
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[13:28:52] <takyon> ~eds
[13:28:53] <exec> editor ping for takyon: janrinok LaminatorX n1 nick martyb Bytram Azrael mrcoolbp cmn32480 coolhand takyon cmn32480|away bytram|away
[13:29:00] <takyon> I edited the latest article to read "MARS Living"
[13:29:06] <takyon> I assume that's correct
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[15:21:12] -!- mode/#editorial [+v n1] by Hephaestus
[15:50:55] <takyon> hi n1
[15:51:21] <n1> howdy, takyon
[15:51:29] <takyon> noticed you in the admin sessions
[15:51:36] <takyon> gonna take off breaking news from the hinkley thing
[15:51:50] <n1> sure thing
[15:51:57] <n1> i was 50/50 on removing it
[15:52:16] <n1> not being 'merican, thought it wasn't my place to remove :p
[15:52:20] <takyon> hahah
[15:52:50] <takyon> I slap on breaking news for anything I can get into the sub queue within say, 2 hours of it happening. or if it is something crazy/ongoing like a shooting or Turkey coup
[15:53:03] <takyon> but after several hours, it's time for that nexus to come off methinks
[15:53:07] <n1> yeah
[15:53:09] <takyon> I don't know if we really have guidelines
[15:53:44] <n1> i'm in agreement with you, but guidelines for breaking news are meh, if there are any
[15:53:48] <n1> it's a case by case kind of thing to me
[15:53:49] <takyon> being a non-american, have you watched any of our conventions (circuses)?
[15:54:26] <n1> only the DNC bit covered by the bbc which i noted in here yesterday
[15:54:48] <takyon> yeah fun stuff
[15:55:04] <n1> bbc news: 'bernie sanders mutinous army'
[15:55:16] <n1> that really made me go wtf
[15:55:35] <takyon> I really don't know the scale of the walkouts
[15:55:42] <n1> the bbc essentially framed it that any opposition to Hilary was illegitimate from the start
[15:55:42] <takyon> but it won't come to anything clearly
[15:55:48] <takyon> hahah
[15:56:16] <takyon> not like the guy got ~47% the votes, and won in the states that Democrats will actually win in November
[15:56:20] <takyon> nosiree
[15:56:23] <n1> they got the clip in from whoever it was that said 'to you bernie supporters, you're being ridiculous'
[15:56:28] <n1> and looked like she was about to cry
[15:56:34] <takyon> I think I saw her on CBSN
[15:56:43] <takyon> #Sad
[15:56:56] <n1> that was like 1/4 audio clips used in the segment
[15:57:06] <n1> that was before the 'mutinous army' comment on the voice over
[15:58:29] <n1> seems like we're losing our marbles both sides of the pond right now
[15:59:57] <n1> nice submission on the biomedical enhancement
[16:00:51] <takyon> thanks
[16:01:20] <takyon> maybe you can vaguely tell I hate my fellow americans from that submission
[16:03:36] <n1> it's a bit of a 'we can't have nice things' situation, start gene editing for nasty diseases and in the next lab over their working on creating a supermutant/deathclaw, if only because you know the damn chinese/russians will be after they hacked and stole the IP associated
[16:04:28] <takyon> at the end of the day, the supermutants are not as dangerous as nukes
[16:04:33] <takyon> I say, do it all
[16:04:35] <takyon> no controls
[16:04:46] <takyon> no limits
[16:05:08] <n1> really, i agree
[16:05:26] <n1> but it's not like we're all going to get the necessary licences to try gene editing ourselves
[16:05:40] <n1> will be only a small, already influential club that gets to play legitimately in that field
[16:05:49] <takyon> the equipment is going to become so cheap that there will be no way to control it
[16:06:06] <takyon> you also have private hackerspaces that come together and buy the expensive equipment... sometimes secondhand
[16:06:15] <takyon> then you pay a fee to use the club's equipment
[16:06:38] <n1> we cant even get over ourselves to have an 'enhanced olympics' - the idea it will be socially acceptable for regular people to mess around with this stuff at any significant level, i can't see it
[16:06:39] <takyon> it also solves the problem of "I don't need a laser cutter more than once a year"
[16:07:10] <takyon> the problem with an enhanced olympics is that it is the only ethical olympics
[16:07:36] <takyon> once anti-aging and other regenerative medicine techniques come into play, denying them to athletes means you are killing them
[16:07:41] <takyon> and harming their health potential
[16:08:01] <takyon> so the only future for athletes is one in which they are unnaturally healthy through biomedical advancements
[16:08:04] <n1> yeah, but only if they're correctly approved and patented products
[16:08:19] <n1> not ones they cooked up in their basement that have not been regulated by the olympics commission or whoever
[16:08:51] <takyon> yes but a correctly approved SENS treatment could mean that you have 80-year-old athletes competing on the level that 30-year-olds used to
[16:09:06] <takyon> it could possibly mean no retirement for the top stars
[16:09:13] <takyon> unless they... chose to
[16:10:53] <n1> i'd like to see it in some ways, but i just don't have the optimism of the advances being used constructively and really shared with wider society
[16:11:15] <takyon> eventually there will be "term limits" for athletes. we'll say, "Michael Phelps, you can't compete at the Summer Olympics for the 17th time"
[16:11:47] <takyon> Aubrey de Grey has made some pretty good arguments as to why it would become widespread and economical
[16:12:13] <takyon> and while it seems like the fountain of youth stuff would be prohibitively expensive, there are many incentives to make it as cheap as possible
[16:12:45] <n1> such as?
[16:13:31] <n1> unless we're planning on doing it super quick to keep the baby boomers alive for a few more election cycles
[16:13:35] <takyon> the customer base is the entirety of humanity. people also don't need to be ill to use regenerative medicine
[16:14:04] <takyon> the same treatments that would work for Alzheimer's et al. would be closely related to generic anti-aging treatment
[16:14:18] <n1> well, medicine in general has the whole of humanity as a customer base already
[16:14:21] <n1> and most of the world is locked out
[16:14:58] <takyon> a lot of people are coming out of poverty. india and china being the prime examples
[16:15:16] <takyon> the amount of people coming out of poverty and into a middle class is unprecedented
[16:15:58] <takyon> the more humanitarian of the millenium development goals are being met. a lot less people are dying of starvation for example
[16:17:30] <n1> from my own perceptions and experiences, i agree to a point, but disagree in general
[16:24:38] <n1> if middle class is defined by having a leased mercedes and is sustainable, then that's great, but i only see the leased mercedes for the most part in the world of insurance/financial services brokers.
[16:35:39] <takyon> having a car is a completely new thing for this middle class
[16:35:45] <takyon> call it a lower middle class if you want
[16:36:04] <takyon> the rapidly rising car ownership in india and china is predicted to be a big contributor to global warming
[16:37:27] <n1> i'd believe that, also interesting that the developing world's middle class is getting their cars, as the west's middle class is being encouraged to reduce reliance on theirs
[16:42:10] <n1> car ownership is much easier now more finance options are available, i have been more than one place where the per capita gbp is <$10,000 but there still manages to be an abundance of new premium brand cars, in contrast to the old japanese imports in the decades before... and a lot of work for debt collectors
[16:43:52] <takyon> there are cheap cars too like Tata
[16:43:58] <takyon> probbly some equivalents in china
[16:44:25] <n1> for sure, chinese cars are doing very well in the rest of the world generally
[16:48:43] <n1> my concern is so much of the new middle classes are being built on debt fueled consumerism, same as the old ones... you can come out of poverty and into debt. china and india are very much countries to watch, their population size with relative poverty but also considerable wealth, giving them strong edges moving forward with accelerated development around the world
[16:49:54] <n1> they may have been taking notes over the last few decades, and have a better strategy going forward to keep the carrot and stick ratios tolerable for their population and productivity.
[16:51:41] <takyon> the situation in china is pretty funny
[16:51:59] <takyon> building empty apartments that stay empty, fueling the construction boom
[16:51:59] <n1> back on the biomedicine type stuff, enhanced longer lives would mean 100 year mortgages can get big outside japan
[16:52:08] <takyon> and then keeping the second class citizens out of the big cities
[16:52:50] <takyon> we're already getting practice for the post-aging world with the failure or shortening of retirement
[16:53:04] <takyon> lots of people are talking about how they will never retire, or try to work after retirement
[16:54:06] <n1> i'd guess it's a slow integration, you let in a few second class citizens at a time... maybe one day those empty apartments will be filled with hard working patriots with families, maybe they wont
[16:54:54] <n1> i'd assume most people under the age of 40 are resigned to the reality that they probably can never retire
[16:55:39] <takyon> well china's problems are very specific
[16:55:49] <takyon> they have to figure out what to do with the rural people sooner or later
[16:55:58] <takyon> and they may have a housing bubble that will burst in the coming years
[16:56:30] <takyon> I believe the GDP growth rate (which is likely an overinflated number) is in decline
[16:56:53] <n1> that was the story going this time last year, the china slowdown
[16:57:13] <n1> after they admitted some numbers were not really correct
[16:57:43] <takyon> that's been going on for years though
[16:58:14] <n1> and foxconn's intention to hire 1million in india by 2020 or something.
[16:59:00] <n1> well, if you believe the numbers coming out of anywhere, there's that thing about selling a bridge
[17:01:41] <n1> seems like china is in a strong position, while there's a lot of rhetoric, there's little attempt to undermine china's position globally, all major players seem happy to be on side
[17:03:38] <takyon> china shows that having a large population and a lot of resources can cover for shortcomings
[17:08:26] <n1> i'd like to visit china, explore the contrast between the cities and rural areas. unlikely to happen though. did vacation in beijing on time, but was a very guided tour.
[17:11:37] <takyon> gotta have a friend there I'd imagine
[17:11:45] <takyon> to navigate the bs
[17:12:28] <n1> well, when i was in HK, which totally doesn't count, it was super easy to get a visa for the mainland, just get a train
[17:12:36] <n1> but yeah, beyond that... fuck knows
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[21:15:34] <n1> any offers on a dept. title for mysql vs postgres
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