#editorial | Logs for 2015-10-13

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[00:24:32] <takyon> I added some notes to the data retention in Australia story I just subbed
[00:24:43] <takyon> two previous Soylent stories which are relevant
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[02:18:32] <cmn32480|away> that soudl put me over 600 stories posted
[02:24:56] cmn32480|away is now known as cmn32480
[02:25:37] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[02:25:49] <cmn32480> heya bytram !!
[02:25:53] <Bytram> yo!
[02:26:11] * Bytram just go home from work 1/2 hr ago.
[02:26:18] <cmn32480> yick
[02:26:19] <Bytram> *got
[02:26:25] <cmn32480> double yick
[02:26:39] <Bytram> we had a call-out so i was asked to stay late.
[02:26:45] <Bytram> 0945-2130
[02:26:45] <takyon> i'm back
[02:26:46] <cmn32480> triple yick
[02:26:59] <cmn32480> that is a helluva day bytram
[02:26:59] <Bytram> takyon: g'day!
[02:27:19] <takyon> yes it is
[02:27:19] <cmn32480> heya takyon
[02:27:27] <Bytram> thanks; it's okay... I worked 0900-2015 on sunday.
[02:27:32] <cmn32480> geesh
[02:27:37] <cmn32480> I hope youa re getting overtime
[02:27:47] <Bytram> tomorrow is only 0945-1800
[02:28:01] <Bytram> and sat is 1215-2115
[02:28:03] <cmn32480> only
[02:28:07] <Bytram> s/sat/wed/
[02:28:08] <sedctl> <Bytram> and wed is 1215-2115
[02:28:27] <Bytram> wed is the 6th day in a row.
[02:29:46] <takyon> keep that up and you'll get a good character score, bytram
[02:29:47] <takyon> https://soylentnews.org
[02:29:48] <BotRoss> ^ 03Error
[02:30:12] <cmn32480> hehe
[02:30:20] <Bytram> on a positive note, I have thurs & fri off... just in time for my bosses' bosses' boss to come in and make a huge floor move so that when I come back to work on sat, I'll know exactly where things used to be!
[02:30:33] <cmn32480> awesome!
[02:30:37] <cmn32480> that is always fun
[02:30:56] <Bytram> just prepping for the 'holiday season'
[02:31:32] <takyon> doomsday prepping
[02:31:36] <Bytram> speaking of which, come turkey day, I'm gonaa be a lot less visible around here, prolly through min/late january.
[02:31:46] <Bytram> s/min/mid/
[02:31:46] <sedctl> <Bytram> speaking of which, come turkey day, I'm gonaa be a lot less visible around here, prolly through mid/late january.
[02:32:00] <cmn32480> hmmmmm I wonder why.....
[02:32:19] <cmn32480> I hope you are getting alittle overtime pay for it
[02:32:32] <Bytram> so, if there's anything that needs breaking, better get your dibs in early!
[02:32:39] <Bytram> =)
[02:33:03] <cmn32480> I'll break stuff in your absence. I'm sure TMB will appreciate it
[02:33:15] <Bytram> some OT, yes. some years they are more 'generous' than others. we'll see how this year goes.
[02:33:24] <Bytram> cmn32480: I knoew I could count on you!
[02:33:24] <takyon> I'll submit a story that contains 1 billion opening paragraph tags
[02:33:37] <cmn32480> I'll click delete
[02:33:47] <Bytram> takyon: that would prolly get PJ in a tizzy, instead.
[02:34:11] <Bytram> I've seen many outbursts about balance_tags being a piece of work.
[02:34:21] <takyon> balance_tags is terrible
[02:34:24] <takyon> if that is what I think it is
[02:35:08] <Bytram> so, just have <p>stuff1 <em>important <b>stuff</em> that</b> could be interesting</p>
[02:35:26] <takyon> interesting</p><hr></p>
[02:35:37] <cmn32480> <delete>
[02:35:49] <cmn32480> no time for deuchebaggery!
[02:35:53] <Bytram> ISTR that HR clears all pending tags?
[02:35:56] <cmn32480> at least not in the submission queue
[02:35:59] <takyon> we should add SVG support to SoylentNews
[02:36:22] <cmn32480> takyon - got a dept line idea for the HP/Sandisk story?
[02:36:30] <cmn32480> I'm fresh out of ideas
[02:36:37] <takyon> maybe something related to vaporware
[02:36:40] <takyon> or memristors
[02:36:46] <Bytram> and, sadly, not much time for any other kind of baggery... I'll be heading to bed in the next 10-15 minutes
[02:36:53] <Bytram> cmn32480: linky
[02:36:59] <cmn32480> sweet dreams bytram
[02:37:09] <cmn32480> https://soylentnews.org
[02:37:11] <Bytram> not yet... that was just a heads-up
[02:37:12] <BotRoss> ^ 03SN Submission by takyon: SanDisk and HP Announce Potential Competitor to XPoint Memory
[02:37:24] <takyon> no it was actually cmn threatening you
[02:37:51] <Bytram> cmn32480: /me clicks link
[02:38:17] <takyon> I'm opening it for nostalgia reasons
[02:38:41] <Bytram> memories... nothing more than memmmmories!
[02:38:52] <Bytram> or is that a different streisand effect?
[02:39:07] <Bytram> I forget.
[02:39:08] <cmn32480> from the more-vaporware-from-the-big-boys dept.
[02:39:59] <Bytram> cheaper than ram and faster than flash
[02:40:14] <Bytram> s /-/g
[02:40:20] <Bytram> s/ /-/g
[02:40:20] <sedctl> <Bytram> s-/-/g
[02:40:25] <Bytram> cheaper than ram and faster than flash
[02:40:28] <Bytram> s/ /-/g
[02:40:28] <sedctl> <Bytram> cheaper-than-ram-and-faster-than-flash
[02:40:40] <takyon> anything you could say about XPoint applies here. Except HP and SanDisk are involved
[02:41:38] <Bytram> big-boys-making-a-big-deal-out-of-very-little-things
[02:41:51] <Bytram> hmmm
[02:42:01] <Bytram> much-ado-about-nothing-much
[02:42:04] <Bytram> ?
[02:42:09] <cmn32480> not I like the last one
[02:42:32] <Bytram> come again? does that mean you DO, or DO NOT like the last one
[02:42:41] <cmn32480> I like the last one
[02:42:43] <cmn32480> sold
[02:42:49] <Bytram> ha!
[02:42:54] <Bytram> =)
[02:43:20] <chromas> the dept-of-much-ado-about-nothing-much dept
[02:44:21] <Bytram> chromas: IIRC, you are our local wiki wrangler?
[02:44:41] <chromas> nah, I just poke it sometimes
[02:44:58] <cmn32480> you use a pointy stick?
[02:45:09] * chromas sharpens
[02:45:17] <chromas> I've got the time, if you need something done on nit
[02:45:33] <Bytram> just wanted to say thanks for your work keeping out the trolls, and all. I don't think it has ever given me a problem, which usually means some pour duck has been, occasionally, spinning his legs just as fast as he possibly can!
[02:45:49] <Bytram> but it all looks calm on the surface.
[02:45:56] <Bytram> so, thanks!
[02:46:14] <chromas> you're welcome :)
[02:46:24] * chromas points at crutchy, who also bins the spam
[02:46:47] <takyon> changing headline on razer story
[02:46:50] <takyon> from "Laser Razor, Skarp Suspended by Kickstarter"
[02:46:52] <Bytram> oh? crutchy has super wiki powers?
[02:47:09] <takyon> to ""Skarp" Laser Razor Suspended by Kickstarter"
[02:47:18] <cmn32480> yes takyon
[02:47:21] <cmn32480> good catch
[02:50:33] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[02:51:22] <takyon> does it biodegrade as it is worn
[02:51:29] <cmn32480> we can hope
[02:51:30] <chromas> ^ 3D-printed eco-bikini cleans the ocean as you swim - CNET ( http://www.cnet.com )
[02:51:46] <cmn32480> but it seems to expand
[02:52:01] <Bytram> I'm thinking, let's wear something that gathers all the pollutants around me and gathers them to my chest.
[02:52:14] <takyon> collect em all
[02:52:20] <takyon> they need a better name than "Sponge"
[02:52:30] <cmn32480> I'm thinking not gonna be a popular product
[02:52:39] <cmn32480> at leat as a bikini
[02:52:50] <takyon> popular at the next Deepwater Horizon
[02:53:16] <Bytram> yeck. take a look at the graphic "THE TECHNOLOGY" and the arms on the 'model' - twigs for arms.
[02:53:41] <takyon> it's easier to fatten a model than thin one
[02:53:50] <takyon> just make a few lard sandwiches
[02:54:28] <cmn32480> have a cheeseburger
[02:55:17] <Bytram> conversely, you could flatten a fat model, too, (cf: a steam roller) but I suspect the results would not be deemed desirable even though you'd be the thinnest person around.
[02:56:17] <Bytram> okay,it's taking about all that Ive got left to stay awake.
[02:56:21] <Bytram> off to bed for me, now.
[02:56:28] <cmn32480> night Bytram
[02:56:32] <takyon> night
[02:56:39] <Bytram> cmn32480: same to you!
[02:56:39] <cmn32480> get some rest... tomorrow is another big day
[02:56:41] <takyon> man nobody is commenting on the Dell article
[02:57:03] <Bytram> cmn32480: if I don't see ya before then, best of luck and fun on your vacation!
[02:57:10] <cmn32480> thanks Bytram
[02:57:20] <Bytram> =)
[02:57:20] <cmn32480> I'm sure we'll have fun
[02:57:27] <cmn32480> try to keep the lights on for me :-)
[02:57:32] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[02:57:36] <Bytram|away> nod nod
[02:57:54] <Bytram|away> cioa for now.
[02:58:01] <cmn32480> sweet dreams
[02:59:35] <cmn32480> ok
[02:59:44] <cmn32480> the queue is out 24hours
[02:59:54] <cmn32480> I'll dump some more tomrorow
[03:03:06] <cmn32480> i'm off to bed.
[03:05:30] <takyon> night
[03:05:52] <cmn32480> night takyon
[03:06:44] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|away
[12:21:50] cmn32480|away is now known as cmn32480
[13:24:37] zz_janrinok is now known as janrinok
[13:25:29] <janrinok> hi guys
[13:25:52] <cmn32480> morning janrinok
[13:25:53] <cmn32480> \ !!
[13:26:52] <janrinok> afternoon cmn32480 !!
[13:27:20] <cmn32480> and oddly enough.. I just said good night to crutchy
[13:27:29] <cmn32480> it's asmall world after all
[13:27:31] <cmn32480> it's asmall world after all
[13:27:40] <cmn32480> it's a small world after all
[13:27:45] <cmn32480> it's a smal smal world!
[13:27:51] <janrinok> I note that takyon is giving us advice on how to edit and format his stories. :) I wonder why he doesn't submit them ready to go?
[13:28:24] <janrinok> that was a mammoth posting session you did there
[13:28:43] <cmn32480> i think he subs, then rereads them, and decides he wants to make changes, btu can't amke changes without oputting it in the story queue
[13:29:03] <cmn32480> and as such, he then tosses the changes to the rest of us.
[13:29:28] <cmn32480> no differnt than what you did earlier in the day
[13:29:50] <janrinok> maybe. I would copy the original into a new sub, add the changes, and resub it. Then delete the original. He has got ed privs so he could do that
[13:29:51] <cmn32480> teamwork++
[13:29:52] <Bender> karma - teamwork: 33
[13:30:11] <cmn32480> interesting idea
[13:30:17] <cmn32480> we shoudl put that to him
[13:30:20] <janrinok> just a thought...
[13:30:24] <janrinok> how's things
[13:30:27] <cmn32480> not too bad
[13:30:37] <cmn32480> little overcast, but no rain
[13:30:43] <janrinok> fighting with the people on the end of the phone again?
[13:30:49] <cmn32480> cool enough to be pleasant, but not need a jacket quite yet
[13:31:05] <cmn32480> thanks.. now the phone will ring for the first time today... great job
[13:31:06] <janrinok> I was out in the garden this morning - needed a fleece most of the time
[13:31:32] <cmn32480> i suppose it depends what you are doing in the garden...
[13:31:37] <cmn32480> strolling around is one thing.
[13:31:51] <janrinok> I only work for exercise purposes in my garden
[13:31:53] <cmn32480> digging holes for fresh plantings a different story
[13:32:24] <cmn32480> not becasue you enjoy the garden?
[13:32:40] <janrinok> I moved some shrubs, weeded a large patch of flowerbed, and dug over another to prepare it for winter
[13:33:04] <cmn32480> musta been cooler ther than here today
[13:33:13] <janrinok> well, I have to exercise, so I might has well do something that I enjoy and gives me some benefits. A walk seems like a waste of an hour
[13:33:24] <cmn32480> agreed
[13:33:30] <cmn32480> good manual labor does the body good
[13:33:50] <janrinok> and it keeps me close to S, so she can relax too
[13:34:13] <cmn32480> I take it she is there keeping you company enjoying the fresh air?
[13:34:31] <janrinok> no, but I keep checking on her every 15 minutes or so
[13:34:38] <cmn32480> ahhh
[13:35:08] <janrinok> she sits outside in warm sunny weather, but gets no pleasure when it is cold and damp
[13:35:20] <cmn32480> geee I can't imagine why....
[13:35:33] <janrinok> probably because I grumble too much ...
[13:35:34] <cmn32480> sittong still in cold damp weather just makes you... well cold and damp!
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[14:33:42] <nick> hey janrinok
[14:36:31] <janrinok> nick!!
[14:36:45] <janrinok> sorry, editing a few stories and took my eye of IRC
[14:37:27] <nick> wouldnt have said anything but another story mysteriously appeared in the queue when i signed-off on the pig story
[14:37:46] <nick> so i figured it probably wasn't magic, it was you working away
[14:38:50] <janrinok> lol
[14:39:03] <janrinok> how's things at your end?
[14:40:05] <nick> things are ok, hopefully finally having a meeting this evening thats kept being postponed
[14:40:09] <nick> how about for you?
[14:46:53] <janrinok> not bad here, weather much cooler and wetter
[14:47:05] <cmn32480> nick !!
[14:47:12] <cmn32480> how goes it good sir?
[14:47:33] <nick> cmn32480 !!
[14:47:49] <nick> right now, hoping this frozen pizza i have in the oven isnt terrible
[14:47:56] <nick> how goes for you?
[14:48:01] <cmn32480> coudl be worse answers
[14:48:04] <cmn32480> :-)
[14:48:13] <cmn32480> I jsut scheduled yet another plane flight
[14:49:34] <cmn32480> <sigh>
[14:50:59] <cmn32480> all in all.. things aren't bad
[14:51:12] <cmn32480> everybody is healthy. wife and kids still remember who I am
[14:51:17] <nick> hawaii this time?
[14:51:25] <cmn32480> I wish!
[14:52:52] <cmn32480> sadly they are taking me to Charleston, South Carolina
[14:52:52] <nick> i would have said somewhere more exotic, but from what i understand, hawaii is the go to for 'exotic locations' as far as americans are concerned...
[14:53:06] <cmn32480> for many, I woudl agree.
[14:53:27] <nick> i just find it amusing :)
[14:53:32] <cmn32480> for me, exotic would be more toward your neck of the woods
[14:53:51] <cmn32480> the wife and I ahve been to Hawaii a twice
[14:54:12] <cmn32480> once on our honeymoon, once on a babymoon before we had the second kid
[14:54:28] <cmn32480> I odn't feel the need to go back soon.
[14:54:30] <nick> the tropical island getaway, but it's ok, we're still in the same country, McDonalds and NFL are never too far away.
[14:54:49] <cmn32480> basically that is the truth
[14:55:51] <nick> but it's like british people going to spain, and spending all their time in english themed bars
[14:56:08] <cmn32480> yeah.. makes no real sense
[14:56:46] <cmn32480> though if I ever went back to Hawaii, I have a buddy that lives out there again
[14:57:19] <nick> some of the places in spain were crazy, you'd have batches of bars and the like all together, all with various versions of british flags flying
[14:57:37] <cmn32480> our next big trip will be Scotland
[14:57:53] <nick> oh yeah?
[14:57:57] <nick> what specific reason?
[14:58:08] <cmn32480> that si where the wife wants to go :-)
[14:58:43] <cmn32480> I'm not sure if she is more in love with the idea, or with actually wanting to go
[15:00:41] <nick> want to see the land of the unionised socialist scroungers of Britain
[15:00:44] <nick> ;)
[15:00:49] <cmn32480> yes
[15:00:53] <cmn32480> that is basically it
[15:01:33] <cmn32480> maybe some time in London. And if I can swing it, I'd like to get across the channel to N. France. Partiularly Normandy
[15:02:38] <nick> all seems so close when planning stuff like that doesnt it?
[15:02:51] <cmn32480> relative to here, yes, it does!
[15:03:48] * nick finds this whole 'great british bake off' show quite awful
[15:04:12] <cmn32480> think of it, in 13 hours, you can fly to the west coast of the US.
[15:04:16] <cmn32480> I can fly to Hawaii
[15:05:13] <nick> doesnt even take that long, flight times wise i can get to the caribbean in about 9hours
[15:05:38] <nick> 13hours i could be somewhere interesting in asia
[15:05:44] <cmn32480> exactly
[15:05:49] <cmn32480> so the distance is a relative thing
[15:06:03] <nick> but at the same time, it could take me 2 hours to drive 10 miles :p
[15:06:23] <cmn32480> in London I assume?
[15:06:25] <nick> aye
[15:06:50] <cmn32480> I can have the same issue in NY or Washington DC, if it makes you feel any less alone
[15:07:22] <nick> to beat a dead horse, the place where the government has now decided to help out with a plan for building affordable housing, with a price cap...
[15:07:37] <nick> that price cap being just under $700,000 in london, for 'starter homes'
[15:07:55] <cmn32480> jebus
[15:08:10] <cmn32480> is that dollars or pounds?
[15:08:14] <nick> dollars
[15:08:19] <nick> i convert most of the time
[15:08:35] <nick> used to going between eur/usd/gbp
[15:08:41] <nick> and global trade being in dollars, blah blah blah
[15:09:04] <cmn32480> for the moment
[15:09:07] <nick> interestingly, the governments idea for capping house prices to enable people to buy starter homes
[15:09:22] <nick> somehow ended up this 'cap' is only slightly below the average house price nationwide anyway
[15:09:23] <cmn32480> y'all must make a lot more money than we do
[15:09:48] <nick> not according to the statistics
[15:10:08] <nick> but what we do have, is cheaper processed and poor quality food
[15:10:31] <nick> like this forzen pizza is about $2
[15:10:34] <cmn32480> and I bet that $700k gets you a 2 bedroom flat
[15:10:36] <nick> frozen*
[15:10:43] <nick> and it's not the cheapest frozen pizza available
[15:11:09] <nick> in central london it wouldnt get that
[15:11:19] <cmn32480> screw that
[15:11:27] <cmn32480> this si why I live in suburbia
[15:11:58] <nick> i looked a while ago, in my part of suburbia, the cheapest property was $250,000
[15:12:16] <nick> it was a single room apartment, above an industrial lock-up/workshop
[15:12:21] <nick> on a long term lease
[15:12:40] <cmn32480> that'd get you a decent 3 bedroom townhouse near me
[15:12:54] <cmn32480> lease?
[15:13:04] <cmn32480> I think the term might mean somethign different for yhou than me
[15:13:10] <nick> it was leasehold not freehold, so you 'buy' it for 80 years
[15:13:34] <cmn32480> adn when the lease runs out? it goes abck to the guy who owns the property?
[15:13:45] <nick> thats the possibility
[15:14:09] <nick> is how most commercial property is sold in this country, i believe
[15:14:41] <nick> you buy it, the duke of westminster still owns it
[15:16:00] <cmn32480> so you are renting it, with a massive upfront payment
[15:16:32] <cmn32480> or at least that is what it sounds like
[15:16:40] <nick> the threat of eviction isnt there, is my understanding
[15:17:00] <cmn32480> but you can't sell it, becasue you don't "own" it
[15:17:08] <nick> but you may well be responsible for all the property maintenance etc
[15:17:11] <nick> yup
[15:17:16] <cmn32480> wow
[15:17:17] <nick> well, you can sell the lease
[15:17:25] <cmn32480> for the remainder of the term
[15:17:33] <nick> so live there for 10 years, sell the 70 years remaining
[15:17:34] <nick> aye
[15:17:56] <cmn32480> so your property goes down in value each year closer to the end fo the lease.
[15:18:15] <nick> in theory yes, in reality no
[15:18:23] <nick> because property prices go up so much, constantly
[15:18:32] <cmn32480> ok
[15:18:46] <cmn32480> see here the lease is actual rent paid to the land/building owner
[15:18:51] <cmn32480> generally monthly
[15:19:21] <nick> yeah
[15:19:27] <nick> a typical rental agreement
[15:19:34] <cmn32480> depending on the property owner, it can be for a term of days to many years
[15:19:38] <cmn32480> yes sir
[15:19:53] <cmn32480> when you buy it, you own it.
[15:20:03] <cmn32480> or whatever percentage the bank doens't own
[15:20:04] <nick> since 1993, house prices in the UK (average) has gone up by 400%
[15:20:12] <cmn32480> golly
[15:20:26] <nick> but between that, financial services and military exports
[15:20:30] <nick> thats the entire british economy
[15:21:04] <cmn32480> ok
[15:21:21] <cmn32480> so the housing bubble just hans't popped yetfor youg uys
[15:21:36] <nick> "Prices in the capital rose by 25.8% between the second quarter of 2013 and the same period this year, Nationwide said, pushing the average to £400,404, the first time it has topped £400,000 and 30% higher than the peak reached in 2007."
[15:21:46] <nick> oh, it did pop, but that was the worst thing in the world
[15:21:52] <nick> house prices dropping by 20%
[15:22:01] <nick> so the government had to go into action to bring them back up
[15:22:14] <cmn32480> hehe
[15:22:18] <nick> hence 'help to buy' and such nonsense
[15:22:21] <cmn32480> thankfully ours didn't do that
[15:22:43] <nick> where the gov goes? "cant afford a property? we'll lend you an extra 20% interest free so you can"
[15:22:49] <nick> because if they didnt, house prices would go down
[15:23:00] <nick> and then there's the buy-to-let element
[15:23:38] <nick> of those who won in the 90's and 80's can leverage their home into a rental property, where they can charge a full months wages in rent, making sure the people renting could never afford to buy
[15:24:12] <cmn32480> sounds quite nice if you were born 30 years previous and had the $$ to make it happen
[15:24:28] <nick> well, it goes back to the 80's policy, of selling the social housing
[15:24:40] <nick> and then preventing the local governments from using the money made, to build more housing
[15:25:20] <nick> in the 80's, people got to buy their houses cheap, to stop them being a 'drain on the state' and encourage entrepreneurial spirit
[15:25:43] <nick> coupled with deregulation and privatisation, encouraging people to invest in stocks and shares
[15:26:10] <nick> since then our whole economic culture has been built on property prices forever increasing, and the stock market reaching new highs
[15:26:29] <cmn32480> same as here, thought perhaps more so in your case
[15:26:32] <nick> whats going on in the 'real' economy is irrelevant, aslong as we have financial instruments and mechanisms to keep those elements moving
[15:26:57] <nick> people feel richer on paper, or the people that got richer in the last 20 years, get that as a substitute
[15:27:57] <nick> i have older members of the family that treat their shares in companies as savings accounts, because they're worth more than they were back in 89, theres no reason to sell them, might as well keep them invested
[15:28:52] <nick> and when when you do get the downturns, and things go quite wrong, even when warned about it, "oh they'll pick up again, they always do"
[15:29:00] <cmn32480> that's scary
[15:29:10] <cmn32480> but I know a lot of people who do the same thign
[15:29:16] <cmn32480> brb
[15:31:34] <cmn32480> sorry... somebody came in with a question
[15:31:41] <cmn32480> thoguht it woudl take longer than it did
[15:31:43] <nick> i couldnt believe it, until i saw it so many times, there are fucking legions of middle-class, middle-aged women with apparently nothing to do in this country
[15:31:59] <nick> so the husband buys them a house as a project, so they can be a property developer
[15:32:25] <cmn32480> wow
[15:32:52] <nick> they get the joys of decorating a whole house a couple times a year, spending days agonising over the light fittings and curtains
[15:33:09] <cmn32480> then selling
[15:33:19] <nick> yup
[15:33:44] <nick> buy for 400k, spend 100k, complain about the 5k you spent on skilled labour, make 150k.
[15:34:38] <nick> customers who complain about how expensive it costs to get work done, then brag about the 1000% RoI from that 'ludicrous expense'
[15:35:08] <cmn32480> so in general, the rich get richer, and the rest of us get our asses handed to us
[15:35:47] <nick> it's a shame the henry ford concept of people being able to buy what they build, has been so lost now
[15:36:16] <nick> a good friend of mine, and myself, when working on peoples homes, we work to price ourselves out of the market
[15:37:26] <cmn32480> pricing out on purpose? or that si just what your overhead is?
[15:37:45] <nick> but employers can literally bus people in from eastern europe, if you dont want to join the race to the bottom
[15:38:20] <nick> i mean that my friend could spend half a year on a project, renovating a regular family home, will make $25k at best
[15:38:25] <nick> but will have added $150k to the value of the house
[15:38:34] <nick> ontop of the pricing movements of the market
[15:38:56] <nick> earn $2000 a month, house you want to buy goes up in value by $1500 a month
[15:38:58] <cmn32480> ok I see what you are saying
[15:39:56] <nick> few of the most recent projects ive completed, i've been the only person working on-site who can speak english fluently
[15:40:15] <cmn32480> that si the norm here
[15:40:29] <nick> i really dont care where people are from, but when you have to use sign language to communicate with the primary electrical contractor, things are wrong.
[15:41:21] <nick> i dont know how varied it is over there, i assume it's mostly mexicans, but here it can be a UN of contractors
[15:41:45] <cmn32480> mostly Mexicans
[15:41:51] <cmn32480> but it can vary some
[15:41:57] <cmn32480> depending on what city youa re in
[15:42:18] <nick> there's been a mix for a while
[15:42:35] <nick> but only in the last couple of years has it been quite so extreme
[15:42:43] <nick> where you're the token native
[15:43:04] <cmn32480> I don't know that it si quite that bad here yet.
[15:43:29] <cmn32480> I've been on a lot of job sites, adn while there is a high percentage of foreign labor, it ahsn't felt like we are the only english speakers
[15:43:30] <nick> im figuring it's a little different, because the primary contractors in the US, i'd assume, are still american based for the most part
[15:43:45] <cmn32480> ^^ Correct
[15:44:01] <nick> so the supervisors and managers etc are more local
[15:44:44] <nick> here it's foreign (saudi/uae/qatar/china/russia) clients, using external contractors
[15:45:05] <cmn32480> gotcha
[15:45:17] <nick> so you get a saudi investor building in the UK, but the best price for electrician just happens to be an italian firm
[15:45:29] <nick> the plumbers are polish, cheapest again
[15:45:40] <cmn32480> we seem to be too far from anywhere to make that profitable... except for Mexicans
[15:45:45] <nick> yeah
[15:46:10] <nick> i was aware of a courier firm literally busing the cheap labour in
[15:46:29] <nick> they hired the drivers in poland, where minimum wage is 1eur/hr
[15:46:52] <nick> and then put them on a bus to the UK, so they could then do deliveries
[15:47:03] <nick> but as it's a common market, and they're officially hired in poland, it's legit
[15:47:21] <cmn32480> ahhh the down side of the Eurozone
[15:47:50] <nick> coming to a TPP/TTIP near you :)
[15:48:13] <cmn32480> yeah.. I know.. and I think that treaty is about the worst deal possible for the rest of us
[15:48:51] <nick> eurozone is a little different, but the complexities of the EU and associated institutions are not something i can be bothered to think about :P
[15:49:19] <nick> i'm pretty sure the whole 'David Camerons Negotiations with the EU' are actually a UK is in TTIP with or without the rest of the EU
[15:49:43] <nick> if we stay in the EU, we must have TTIP, if we dont stay in the EU we'll have TTIP anyway.
[15:50:14] <nick> to me, thats what it appears these 'negotiations' are about, if anything substantial at all
[15:50:31] <cmn32480> to me, it all means BOHICA
[15:50:40] <nick> as there is some resentment from the populations of continental europe over it, and the UK is a big supporter of it
[15:50:53] <nick> i figure that all that they're arguing over, if they are at all.
[15:50:59] <cmn32480> Bend Over Here It Comes Again
[15:51:56] <nick> i mean it's not like you could look at say something like a North American Free Trade Agreement and see how these trade deals work for the average person
[15:52:26] <nick> but such a thing has never been tried before, and even if it had, we couldn't talk about the negative consequences of such actions
[15:52:36] <nick> because that would cloud the debate about our economic future
[15:53:44] <nick> i doubt it's much different there, but i dont think anyone in the UK knows shit about TTIP
[15:53:48] <cmn32480> well... certainly not. Learingin from history is a stupid idea
[15:56:30] <cmn32480> something about "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
[15:57:03] <nick> well, i think the people repeating history were quite happy with the results from the previous attempts
[15:58:24] <cmn32480> i woudl agree., sadly
[15:59:49] <nick> i really think we have started a new phase of business development
[16:00:27] <nick> where the multinationals we know today are half or less of the scale of what we will see in the future
[16:01:42] <nick> the mergers and acquisitions are already happening. the multinationals are consolidating to maintain their market positions for when the new framework comes into force in the next couple of years
[16:02:51] <cmn32480> ph yes
[16:03:07] <cmn32480> "too Big to Fail" is now the norm instead of the oddball
[16:03:50] <cmn32480> the outright monopolization and consolidation of everythgin
[16:04:11] <cmn32480> like in "Demolition Man" where all the reasaturants are Taco Bell
[16:06:30] <nick> i think we're approaching a new mindset with that, if a 'TBTF' in in trouble, it's a failure of us (the market/consumer and government overreach) not the company itself
[16:06:44] <nick> because if they were incompetent, they'd have never made the billions in the first place
[16:06:51] <nick> so it cant be the fault of the company
[16:07:23] <nick> which is how the 'financial crisis' was treated
[16:07:42] <cmn32480> yup
[16:08:08] <cmn32480> instead of letting those massive companies fail (which is what really should have happened) they got propped up and made bigger
[16:09:04] <nick> but that is like the UK housing market, if you let it fail, the whole thing comes crashing down, so it cant be allowed to happen
[16:09:30] <cmn32480> and it puts a depression into play
[16:09:34] <cmn32480> world wide at this point
[16:09:52] <cmn32480> which will require WWIII to get out of.... and the process starts again
[16:10:31] <nick> i think the term we're going to be using for the coming months is the 'global slowdown' followed by something less pleasant
[16:12:19] <nick> we can't call things what they are anymore, especially when they're not what they are, like inflation rates - inflation has turned negative, it's not called deflation anymore because that would cause irrational loss of confidence
[16:12:56] <cmn32480> i.e - people are too stupid to understand it, or just don't care.
[16:13:04] <nick> and anyone with any sense knows real inflation is quite high, and certainly not in deflation territory, so the change in terminology make sense to people who matter
[16:13:53] <nick> ie to people who matter it's a: "it's ok, interest rates wont rise for a while yet"
[16:14:20] <nick> to regular jerk-offs it's: "things are cheaper, you're better off"
[16:18:31] <nick> http://www.wsj.com
[16:18:32] <BotRoss> ^ 03Are You Ready to Buy Stocks at Your Grocery Store? - WSJ
[16:19:09] <nick> article is paywall but the point: "Kmart, Office Depot, Safeway and other retailers roll out gift cards that give recipients shares in top companies"
[16:20:15] <cmn32480> interesting
[16:20:33] <cmn32480> ahh crap... I ahve a meeting in 10.
[16:20:46] <nick> :(
[16:20:51] <cmn32480> yeah I agree...
[16:20:56] <cmn32480> I'd rather be here at my desk
[16:21:01] <cmn32480> gettitng real work done
[16:22:39] <cmn32480> I'll be back about 90 min
[16:23:03] <nick> take it easy
[16:23:04] <cmn32480> get some rest nick.
[16:23:06] * nick hat tip
[16:23:15] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|mtg
[16:26:43] -!- Phoenix666 [Phoenix666!~Phoenix66@qbdb-64-293-838-329.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #editorial
[18:24:34] cmn32480|mtg is now known as cmn32480
[18:31:22] <janrinok> I bet you enjoyed that - NOT
[18:31:41] <janrinok> cmn32480: ^
[18:32:09] <cmn32480> THUNK THUNK THUNK was the sound of my head beationg on the table
[18:32:21] <janrinok> lol - it is always good when you stop
[18:32:54] <cmn32480> pretty much
[18:33:45] <janrinok> but surely you feel much more enlightened now, you have purpose behind your toil, a reason to strive onwards despite adversities?
[18:34:38] <cmn32480> ummmmm yeah
[18:40:17] <janrinok> you've always got the weekend to look forward to
[18:40:56] <cmn32480> maybe by the long weekend I can forget some of the stupid and my IQ will start climbing agian
[18:41:43] <janrinok> today will be nothing more than a cruel memory
[18:43:47] <cmn32480> 2 hours
[18:43:53] <cmn32480> and 17 minutes
[18:43:57] <cmn32480> ish
[18:44:02] <cmn32480> but who's counting?
[18:44:13] <janrinok> I was waiting for the second count, but 'ish' suffices
[18:45:21] <cmn32480> glad to hear it :-)
[18:45:43] <janrinok> how long is the commute?
[18:45:53] <cmn32480> work?
[18:45:57] <cmn32480> generally 20 min
[18:46:51] <janrinok> not too long then, but enough to put it all behind you before you get home
[18:48:32] <cmn32480> providing there isn't traffic like ;ast night adn this morning
[18:48:39] <cmn32480> took an hour to get here this morning
[18:51:17] <janrinok> any particular reason for the extra delay
[18:54:02] <cmn32480> stupid people is my guess
[18:54:19] <cmn32480> I actually have no idea why. but it could have been far worse
[18:54:53] <janrinok> that's a lot of stupid people to make the journey 3x longer
[18:55:46] <cmn32480> only takes 1 to get in an accident and screw over thousands of people
[19:29:35] <janrinok> cmn32480: time for me to go - have a safe drive home, give my best to J, and enjoy your evening
[19:29:49] <cmn32480> thanks janrinok
[19:30:05] <cmn32480> you have a fine sleep, and I'm sure we'll talk in the mornign before I disappear for a few days
[19:30:36] <janrinok> I hope so, but if not, have a good time (all 3 of you :))
[19:30:50] <cmn32480> Thanks :-)
[19:30:54] <cmn32480> give S my best
[19:30:59] <janrinok> will do
[19:31:01] <janrinok> bye
[19:31:11] <cmn32480> night
[19:31:34] janrinok is now known as zz_janrinok
[20:29:31] <takyon> haha, I updated the razor story 2 seconds after it hit the main page
[20:30:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> close shave there
[20:30:21] <takyon> janrinok: yup I immediately find problems with my subs. I should just delete them
[20:30:32] <takyon> more like zz_janrinok
[20:46:23] <takyon> wow someone rejected the sabmiller buyout story
[20:51:36] <cmn32480> any note on why it got rejected?
[20:51:53] <cmn32480> oh wait... nobody made that functionality live yet.(TMB)
[20:55:38] * cmn32480 feeling grumpy
[20:59:39] <takyon> practically any $100 billion buyout is a worthwhile story, and a lot of us drink beer and/or like to complain about beer
[20:59:51] <takyon> not trying to force the issue, just sayin
[21:00:08] <cmn32480> I'm surprised. I haven't been in the sub queue all day
[21:00:20] <cmn32480> and didn't see it
[21:53:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> cmn32480, it doesn't save a note in the db on why it was rejected anyway. it just sends it to the user.
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[23:11:14] <nick> ahoy
[23:17:11] <takyon> hi
[23:17:24] <nick> opinions on: is the 'stealthchat' story actually worth putting out there? what is news/interesting about it?
[23:19:28] <nick> it just stood out to me as reprinting what appears to be a reprinted press release with nothing of note
[23:24:23] <takyon> well
[23:25:34] <takyon> it's the kind of thing that users probably want to know about
[23:25:41] <takyon> the summary doesn't say if it's free
[23:27:02] <nick> i get the bait, but there's no hook if you know what i mean - tfa makes no effort to say why it's different from any other 'privacy focused' communication app
[23:28:35] <takyon> that would require thought and effort on the part of the submitter
[23:31:23] <nick> im also talking about tfa
[23:33:44] <takyon> well the comparison that TFA is making is basically to Skype and Snapchat
[23:34:32] <takyon> it mentions encrypted VOIP but not if anything else is encrypted
[23:35:23] <takyon> that's what these apps need to do... handle end-to-end encryption (mandating it) in the way email providers don't for instance
[23:35:27] <nick> my concern is, using this as a standard, there's no reason not to print every press release that mentions security if it comes our way
[23:36:01] <takyon> I can see your point
[23:36:14] <takyon> too bad jan isn't around
[23:37:02] <takyon> the article is also from September 3
[23:37:03] <nick> i've been dealing a lot more with marketing and pr elements recently, thought it needed a discussion in general
[23:37:12] <nick> that story seemed like a great example
[23:37:32] <nick> im looking into stealthchat now out of curiosity
[23:37:49] <takyon> lately we have tended to publish such stories... as far as I've seen
[23:38:16] <takyon> I doubt that we get too much real market spam from companies themselves, but I have encountered it. I think there was something like it a couple of days ago
[23:38:16] <nick> ive seen some stories go out that i would not have gone with, but this is all subjective
[23:38:41] <takyon> is there a list of all submissions or all deleted subs?
[23:39:09] <takyon> since they still technically exist when deleted
[23:39:10] <nick> ive not been here that much, and i noticed a couple recently
[23:39:15] <nick> not sure about that
[23:39:23] <nick> they should be somewhere
[23:39:39] <takyon> themightybuzzard
[23:40:03] <nick> the ipid from the stealthchat sub has no other activity on the site
[23:40:23] <takyon> first time anon submitters aren't too uncommon
[23:40:27] <takyon> and my IPID just changed
[23:40:55] <nick> sure, my ipid changes all the time
[23:41:03] <nick> but it's still worth noting in the general context i think
[23:41:36] <nick> i've had the same ipid as other people too
[23:41:51] <takyon> wow I didn't think that was possible
[23:41:59] <takyon> or likely
[23:42:05] <nick> https://www.reddit.com
[23:42:06] <BotRoss> ^ 03overview for Zia06
[23:42:35] <nick> vpn services depending on location etc
[23:44:04] <takyon> why the reddit user link
[23:44:17] <nick> thats the name the submitter used
[23:44:27] <takyon> good research
[23:45:30] <nick> i vote to lose the story on that
[23:47:38] <takyon> fair enough
[23:47:43] <takyon> I'll execute it myself
[23:48:51] <nick> thanks
[23:49:17] <nick> they got what they wanted anyway, the submission appears in google for me when searching the headline
[23:50:03] <takyon> yeah I've noticed that when googling soylent headlines recently
[23:50:23] <takyon> what I'm really waiting for is the day that SoylentNews appears in Google News
[23:50:27] <nick> i think we are above the radar now
[23:50:28] <takyon> but maybe we need to apply for that
[23:50:35] <nick> at least to get targeted press releases like that
[23:51:08] <nick> as you seem to have noted, and i said a bit ago, im sure i spotted some similar ones the other day
[23:51:24] <nick> not community generated submissions, being generous