#editorial | Logs for 2015-08-11

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[01:18:22] <Bytram> hi all!
[01:20:14] <Bytram> I have a comment on submission accept/reject reasons...
[01:21:11] <Bytram> atm, we can conceivably provide feedback on every submission; in a few years, we may well have so many submissions that an individualized response is not possible.
[01:21:47] <Bytram> I believe part of the problem is the terminology: 'accepted' vs 'rejected'
[01:22:49] <Bytram> 'rejected' sounds like an *overt* action; a deeming that something is inadequate.
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[01:23:28] <Bytram> possibly 'accepted' and 'not accepted' might be better; or better yet: accepted? Yes/No
[01:25:16] <Bytram> it may seem like a fine nuance, but I suspect it is a large part of the dissatisfaction. NOBODY likes being rejected, and many/most of the techies I've met view their work to be tantamount to being a representation of their self. The tech world is often described as a meritocracy...
[01:25:51] <Bytram> IOW you *are* what you produce.
[01:26:52] <Bytram> Taking another viewpoint altogether, if we do decide to provide feedback, I'd submit the choices in the firehose feed might be useful as a starting point.
[01:27:03] <cmn32480> heya Bytram!
[01:27:28] <Bytram> From memory: 'Not the best', 'Dupe', 'Interesting', and many others, I'm sure
[01:27:32] <Bytram> cmn32480: !!
[01:27:47] <cmn32480> oooo right... my bad
[01:27:51] <cmn32480> Bytram !!
[01:27:53] <Bytram> Just popping in for a bit to try and catch up on scrollback.
[01:27:58] <cmn32480> hehehe
[01:28:02] <cmn32480> there was quite a bit today
[01:28:11] <Bytram> I skimmed it rather quickly.
[01:28:37] <Bytram> and prolly missed something; if it's important, I'm sure I'll be reminded of it again in the future.
[01:28:53] <cmn32480> your point above is interesting
[01:28:58] <Bytram> if not, well, it's always my fault anyway! Might as well make use of being a scapegoat!
[01:29:04] <Bytram> tnx
[01:29:05] <cmn32480> right
[01:29:19] <Bytram> what about my point?
[01:29:38] <cmn32480> nopt accepted vs rejected
[01:29:43] * Bytram gets out a wet stone and commences to sharpening it
[01:29:47] <Bytram> oh, that.
[01:29:47] <cmn32480> large difference in connotation
[01:29:55] <Bytram> you GET it!
[01:30:06] <Bytram> words are powerful.
[01:30:28] <cmn32480> you are entirely correct
[01:30:29] <Bytram> we need to be careful to use the right ones and beware of any negative connotations.
[01:30:50] <cmn32480> I had another thought, use the built in messages
[01:31:08] <cmn32480> same one that tells you automagically that someone moderated you, or replied to a comment
[01:31:11] <Bytram> I just think back to how I felt after I put in a lot of work in one of my first SN story submissions, and what got posted was not what I wrote! I was *upset*. THAT IS NOT WHAT I WROTE!
[01:31:29] <Bytram> I was thinking along those lines as well.
[01:31:44] <cmn32480> that seems to be the easiest way to provide the feedback that is craved by the community
[01:32:03] <Bytram> just another Drop-down: Feedback on story submissions: None / message
[01:32:09] <cmn32480> and we already have the messageing code written
[01:32:15] <Bytram> I'd think it best to NOT offer email as an option on that list.
[01:32:21] <Bytram> nod nod
[01:32:22] <cmn32480> agreed
[01:32:32] <cmn32480> keep it in site, and one way
[01:32:36] <Bytram> make it opt in,default is no feedback.
[01:32:42] <cmn32480> yes
[01:32:52] <Bytram> could put a link/refrence to it in the story submission page.
[01:32:54] <cmn32480> that coudl be problematic
[01:33:08] <Bytram> run a story noting the new feature.
[01:33:36] <cmn32480> I would think for all registered users, a message gets cut. For AC/Decide not to login, TFB
[01:33:55] <Bytram> the story gets the word out so that the majority (I hope) of the users become aware of it; a reference on the submission page is there for everyone, every time.
[01:34:22] <Bytram> yes, message gets cut... but the user needs to opt in to see it.
[01:34:27] <cmn32480> yes, but I think you are making it more complex than needed
[01:34:40] <Bytram> how so
[01:35:17] <cmn32480> I might be wrong
[01:35:52] <cmn32480> I'm thinking it through, and we already opt in/out of different stuff on the messages, it might just be another check box.
[01:36:00] <Bytram> exactly!
[01:36:18] * cmn32480 thinks about what he's done
[01:36:25] <Bytram> we already have the code in place to send messages to users.
[01:36:28] * cmn32480 decideds it wasn't enough to brrod about
[01:36:38] <cmn32480> this is just a new kind of message
[01:36:58] <Bytram> give that man an internet!
[01:37:01] <Bytram> =)
[01:37:03] <Bytram> the largest change would be on the editorial side.
[01:37:03] <cmn32480> WOO HOO!
[01:37:09] <cmn32480> I GOT ME AN INTERNETS!!!!!
[01:37:25] <Bytram> if you behave yourself, we might even give you a spare!
[01:37:32] <cmn32480> oooo
[01:37:35] <Bytram> I'm thinking out loud, here....
[01:37:38] <cmn32480> next he'll offer me a toilet seat
[01:37:48] <cmn32480> but that'll create a shit storm
[01:37:53] <Bytram> atm, if we promote a submission to be a story, well, that's already covered.
[01:38:19] <cmn32480> message created to tell submitter, "you won the lottery!"
[01:38:28] <cmn32480> or there should be one
[01:38:43] <Bytram> a story that is not published after, say, 2 weeks (or some other fixed time) autormatically gets a 'not accepted' message of some sort.
[01:38:57] <Bytram> (details to be worked out on that one
[01:38:58] <Bytram> )
[01:38:59] <cmn32480> some stuff gets dumped in the queue and sits for a few days, then meanders to the story queue
[01:39:11] <cmn32480> we never let stuff sit that long
[01:39:25] <Bytram> if it's obviously flamebait, troll, off-topic, etc. then there should be a choice for that.
[01:39:29] <cmn32480> unless it comes from Arthur... some of his stuff hangs around
[01:39:34] <Bytram> yep
[01:39:43] <Bytram> ditto for dupe
[01:39:51] <cmn32480> agreed
[01:40:14] <Bytram> should also have a text-entry field for an ad-hoc message.
[01:40:24] <cmn32480> ninjad
[01:40:30] <Bytram> sort of like an 'additoinal note:'
[01:40:41] <cmn32480> Other w/ a text field for non-conforming reasons
[01:41:12] <Bytram> well, some subs are basically pretty good, but might have a strong bias/slant/etc.
[01:41:33] <cmn32480> non-conforming meaning not covered by the drop down
[01:41:33] <Bytram> somuch so that can't run it as is, or even with substantial reqrite.
[01:42:21] <Bytram> reason: 'dupe' text: include a link to the dupe story.
[01:42:58] <cmn32480> uh huh
[01:44:28] <Bytram> reason: 'not-the-best' text: 'Most of the community is probably not going to be that interested in your archive of cat pics.'
[01:45:06] <cmn32480> flamebait - inflammatory with the intent of causing arguments, and no real value to the community
[01:45:10] <Bytram> so, I would suggest that BOTH are available.
[01:45:16] <Bytram> nod ond
[01:45:24] <cmn32480> advertisement - Really? Don't be a dick.
[01:45:30] * Bytram notes his typo skills are improveing
[01:45:39] <cmn32480> mine tooo
[01:45:47] <Bytram> lol
[01:45:52] <cmn32480> new keyboard taking some getting used to?
[01:45:52] <Bytram> mein two!
[01:46:03] <Bytram> same kbd; more tired user
[01:46:21] <cmn32480> i was thinking the one on the lappy
[01:46:32] <Bytram> clicky PS/2 kbd from an old HP; using a PS/2 to USB adapter.
[01:47:03] <cmn32480> nice
[01:47:07] <Bytram> now that i've made the new lappy the main system, I brought over the external kbd and wireless mouse.
[01:47:39] <Bytram> wish it has a lighter 'feel', but it sure beats a membrane kbd.
[01:47:57] <Bytram> okay, I'm already running on empty and don't want to stay up to much later...
[01:48:41] <cmn32480> www.maxkeyboard.com
[01:48:52] <Bytram> general idea is that we could use the existing message system; control the fate of stories either by accepting them, or by choosing an option in a drop-down list box along with an [optional] free-form text entry field.
[01:48:52] <cmn32480> they hae a really good reference on the different Cherry switches
[01:49:12] <cmn32480> yes, sir. that is my read
[01:49:14] <Bytram> default is no notification. User can opt in to receive a message on the system.
[01:49:35] <Bytram> drop-down list contents TBD, but can look at firehose code for ideas.
[01:49:48] <Bytram> does that cover everything?
[01:50:05] <cmn32480> I don't know how much of that is left. I thought NC stripped most of it.
[01:50:28] <cmn32480> change from reject to not accepted or some such
[01:50:45] <Bytram> I suspect we can either look at the historical code (it *is* on git) or just take a look at what is avail on the green sight.
[01:51:08] <cmn32480> probly
[01:51:39] <cmn32480> get some rest Bytram
[01:52:56] <cmn32480> you sound beat
[01:53:14] <Bytram> the one thing I left off the summary was an auto-timeout function for some fixed period of time (prolly a system var) that if a story is not accepted within that time, it is autoflagged as: not accepted - no reason given.
[01:53:20] <Bytram> NCommander: paulej72: themightybuzzard: mrcoolbp: ^^^ starting with 'general idea is that' to here, is a summary of what looks like a viable way to handle feedback to users
[01:53:29] <Bytram> interested in your thoughts and feedback.
[01:53:44] <Bytram> cmn32480: I will, and I'd suggest the same to YOU!
[01:53:44] <Bytram> =)
[01:54:18] <cmn32480> I'm in the midst of smethign atm, but shall be heded that way as soon as humanly possible
[01:54:37] <cmn32480> perhaps I ought to get in the middle of a typing clas...
[01:55:16] <Bytram> well, practice does make perfect. getting plenty of that as an editor, as well as hanging out in these channels!
[01:55:47] <Bytram> good talking with you, as always. sleep well!
[01:55:55] <cmn32480> yup.. now if I coudl jsut stop having to type at work.... I'd be set!
[01:56:04] <cmn32480> you too Bytram. always a pleasure
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[09:03:03] <Bytram> zz_janrinok: I added some links to the "Scientists Develop Software for Drone Traffic Management" story: https://soylentnews.org
[09:03:10] <exec> └─ 13Error
[09:03:24] <Bytram> the links refered back to a couple other stories we ran previously
[09:03:37] * Bytram goes back to bed
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[13:16:44] <janrinok> cmn32480: !!
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[14:05:20] <cmn32480> janrinok !!
[14:05:31] <janrinok> cmn32480: how's things?
[14:05:54] <cmn32480> busy as hell... no shock there
[14:06:00] <cmn32480> how bout you?
[14:06:25] <janrinok> good I think - 17 volunteers to be editors, and over 100 subs in the queue
[14:06:42] * janrinok is just cleaning his specatacles
[14:06:56] * cmn32480 picks himself off the floor
[14:06:59] <janrinok> ah, sry. my bad
[14:07:05] * cmn32480 cleans his own spectacles
[14:07:08] <janrinok> no change
[14:07:17] * cmn32480 give janrinok a raspberry
[14:07:21] <janrinok> :)
[14:07:58] <janrinok> but we are certainly no worse off than before
[14:08:54] <cmn32480> I actually think we are better off than before
[14:09:05] <cmn32480> some good suggestions from the community on the submission feedback thing
[14:09:06] <janrinok> so do I, but I don't like getting too excited
[14:09:35] <janrinok> well, if it spurs us into action and we get some way of providing feedback, then we are definitely better off
[14:10:13] <cmn32480> yup.
[14:10:24] <cmn32480> just wish we had gotten at least 1 new ed out of it
[14:10:51] <janrinok> ah, plenty of time yet. They don't all rush on the first day. We need to watch the emails for a day or two
[14:10:53] <cmn32480> apparently the only thign that begets quality editors is you having a breakdown.
[14:11:09] <janrinok> lol - I'll plan another
[14:11:09] * cmn32480 pats himself adn Coolhand on the back
[14:11:42] <cmn32480> I'm sure that'll go over really well at home
[14:11:56] <janrinok> It might just be me, but I've already deleted 3 subs today thinking - wtf has someone submitted this for?
[14:12:33] <janrinok> mind you, one was a very blatant soyvertisement
[14:12:48] <janrinok> ... and a plea for money - from us!
[14:13:03] <cmn32480> welll.... we asked for subs... we expected to get a certain amount of crap
[14:13:30] <janrinok> I think they soyvertisement/kickstarter was more of a generic thing that also got sent to the other site
[14:13:38] <janrinok> They might have lots of money to give away
[14:13:48] <janrinok> brb
[14:18:16] <janrinok> k
[14:19:07] <cmn32480> at least the queue is partially full.
[14:19:18] <cmn32480> lotta p666, and arthur
[14:19:33] <janrinok> yeah, same old same old
[14:19:45] <cmn32480> the one from kurenai.tsubasa is kinda interesting
[14:20:21] <janrinok> no emails for volunteers in my inbox
[14:21:02] * cmn32480 easily contains his shock
[14:21:04] <janrinok> yeah, it's not for me but I can see the geek connection. But, other than that, is it 2 kids being tried for attempted murder
[14:22:03] <janrinok> sry that should read 'it is' and not be a question 'is it'
[14:22:58] <cmn32480> i read it how it was iuntended
[14:24:28] <cmn32480> we'll see how it all goes. I'm not worried
[14:24:46] <cmn32480> if we can't keep up, I don't think that any of us are going to put ourselves in the hospital over it again, are we?
[14:25:26] <janrinok> well, this bit of 'we' doesn't intend to ..., but I wasn't planning on doing it the first time either
[14:26:27] <cmn32480> yes... but now you have been wwarned and know better where the limit is
[14:26:50] <janrinok> and since when has knowledge and advice been heeded around here :)
[14:26:52] <cmn32480> this is part of the reason that the every hour release scheule is just too much for us to handle as volunteers
[14:26:57] <cmn32480> touche!
[14:27:47] <janrinok> well, it depends on how many volunteers ...., but you make a fair point for the team the size that it is - unless we all edit 6 stories a day...
[14:28:45] <janrinok> which reminds me, takyon had a burst of activity, seemed to get a bit hacked off, and is submitting more than posting at the moment. I hope he isn't too disillusioned
[14:28:48] <cmn32480> ummmm... not goanna happen
[14:29:03] <cmn32480> the 6 stories a day
[14:29:09] <janrinok> yep, understood
[14:29:23] <cmn32480> excellent, we cna use the subs. and his are usually really well done.
[14:29:34] <janrinok> I've posted a couple of them today
[14:29:42] <cmn32480> almost a guaranteed straight passthrough to the story queue
[14:29:52] <janrinok> but he is also valuable as an editor
[14:31:10] <janrinok> Both LamX and I went through exactly the same about this time last year when we realised that, as things stood, we couldn't actually change much without more support from outside.
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[14:31:48] <janrinok> knowing what needs to be done and being able to do it are 2 very different things
[14:33:09] <cmn32480> he has value in both places, without question
[14:33:30] <cmn32480> short version is we need more bodies that are in ti for at least a few months, and hopefully longer
[14:35:30] <cmn32480> sorry I'm in and out here. manageing for printer that are printing simultaneously is not as easy as it sounds
[14:35:46] <cmn32480> and the sound is cacophonous
[14:37:33] <cmn32480> crap... need more alcohol
[14:40:17] <janrinok> we always need more alcohol
[14:45:43] <cmn32480> not this kinds
[14:45:56] <cmn32480> this is denatured alcohol for cleanign the print heads
[14:46:33] <janrinok> try adding a mixer - it'll probably taste better
[14:47:35] <cmn32480> and eat me from the inside out!
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[14:48:56] <janrinok> Arthur has found another 178
[14:54:41] <cmn32480> Arrthur is the man
[14:57:31] <janrinok> I'm still working on the second part of Arthur for you - the story reviewer and auto-submitter. However, it is a bigger task than I first imagined so keep your fingers crossed...
[15:26:29] <CoolHand> go go janrinok
[15:26:37] <janrinok> CoolHand: !!
[15:26:44] <CoolHand> janrinok !!
[15:26:45] <CoolHand> :)
[15:27:01] <janrinok> is there an echo in here, in here, in here?
[15:27:18] <CoolHand> haha haha
[15:27:48] <janrinok> We've got 22 poss stories in the Hold queue, and 17 in the normal queue.
[15:28:23] <CoolHand> yep.., thanks to P666 and arty
[15:28:42] <janrinok> arty has 178 today up his sleeve
[15:28:52] <CoolHand> he's a monster
[15:29:14] <janrinok> but, removing junk and dupes, gives us about 50-60 usable stories
[15:29:54] <CoolHand> enough for a couple days..
[15:29:57] <CoolHand> :)
[15:30:41] <janrinok> there will be a similar amount tomorrow and Thurs, and a slight drop off on Friday - businesses don't like announcing releases on a Friday
[15:31:32] <janrinok> I try to put stories that are NOT time critical into the Hold queue
[15:31:50] <CoolHand> good thinkin there..
[15:33:09] <janrinok> Ah, hit the max submission barrier for an hour or two
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[18:38:06] <cmn32480> well... I almost just punched an owner of the company I work for
[18:38:46] <janrinok> what happened - did you miss or show restraint?
[18:38:54] <cmn32480> restraint
[18:39:08] <cmn32480> but I was close
[18:39:23] <cmn32480> mix of an Italian and Latino temper
[18:39:27] <cmn32480> QUICK boil
[18:40:55] <janrinok> everything OK though now?
[18:41:24] <cmn32480> my blood pressure has come down significantly
[18:41:43] <cmn32480> but I think it woun't take much for me to blow a gasket at this point.
[18:42:04] <janrinok> take it easy bud
[18:42:35] <cmn32480> I'm so pissed I'm twitching
[18:42:57] <janrinok> go for a walk, take the piss out of me, talk about something else, relax!
[18:46:13] <janrinok> better?
[18:47:46] <cmn32480> I'm thinking I might go home now and say F**K the rest of the day
[18:48:02] <janrinok> sounds like a plan
[18:48:11] <janrinok> but calm down before you drive
[19:23:58] <cmn32480> I'm calmer now.
[19:24:05] <cmn32480> still at the office... but calmer
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[19:33:21] <janrinok> cmn32480: gtg - give my best to J, and I hope that your day improves.
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