#editorial | Logs for 2015-07-25

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[01:37:00] <cmn32480|afk> juggs - he was looking for his ZNC username and pwd.
[01:37:10] cmn32480|afk is now known as cmn32480
[01:39:17] <cmn32480> until such time as he figures them out, he is stuck with Bytram|alt as his nick, and he has no privileges.
[01:39:33] <cmn32480> it was fun doing a .kick on him the other day. made me giggle
[02:18:34] <cmn32480> zz_janrinok - I rather like Arthur T. Knackerbracket. His selection of stories is quite good.
[02:20:42] <juggs> cmn32480, His ZNC u/pass will be in his xchat config file in plain text (xchat / hexchat stores it in plain text on the assumption the user secures their home dir sufficiently) if he still has access to the old machine. Not sure of the exact location on a Windows box, but I know he found it before. Otherwise I can reset his ZNC passwd. Feel free to pass that on if you see him before I do.
[02:21:16] <cmn32480> I shall pass it on juggs. Thanks much!
[02:25:08] <cmn32480> %APPDATA%\HexChat
[02:25:10] <juggs> cmn32480, on my linux install the file is /home/me/.config/hexchat/servlist.conf I believe xchat/hexchat profile directories are cross platform transportable (like firefox and thunderbird profile dirs are), so a search for servlist.conf should yield results on a Win box.
[02:25:24] <cmn32480> my google-fu is good today I see
[02:25:53] <juggs> check out your servlist.conf and be shocked to see your passwords in plain text :D
[02:25:55] <cmn32480> I cheated juggs. I RTFM
[02:26:02] <juggs> That works too :P
[02:26:17] <cmn32480> wow
[02:26:23] <cmn32480> just wow.
[02:26:27] <cmn32480> that's all I got
[02:26:57] <cmn32480> NOBODY stores passwords that way anymore.
[02:28:57] <juggs> I read an XChat project rationale piece on that some time back - the main thrust seemed to be that a. the file permissions should be set right to stop others reading it b. the home dir should be encrypted when not in use. I wonder if I can find it again - it kinda made sense.
[02:29:26] <cmn32480> the logic is sound... if people follow it
[02:30:52] <cmn32480> and if it is installed in a corporate environment....
[02:32:55] <cmn32480> ok.. .jsut enough time to get some half-life in before bed.
[02:34:12] <cmn32480> I have passed the info on via email.
[02:34:58] <juggs> not really sound in the current days of browser drive-by hijacks with a browser that is free to read / write anything in %HOME% - but I'm not sure what the alternative is in this case. The password needs to be retrieved by the IRC client in order to login, so it could be encrypted in the file but not irreversibly hashed. If someone has gained access to your Hechat dir to read its contents the game is over anyway, encrypted password in the file or
[02:34:58] <juggs> not - even if the encryption is salted, the salt will be stored to file too, otherwise the client could not function.
[02:35:59] <cmn32480> true. or everybody's alt is the same... and that doeasn't work either
[02:36:52] <juggs> So... make it blatantly obvious the passwd is stored in the clear and get people to think about encrypting their home dir :D Perhaps that is a win!
[02:37:17] <juggs> Enjoy some Half-Life :)
[02:37:32] * cmn32480 thinks juggs is correct on both counts
[02:45:57] <juggs> cmn32480, are you steaming through it or going for the "kill every baddie" approach - there's beasties hidden in what I would call big roman amphora in later levels - best taken out with the explosive pack things :) Tis a good game :)
[02:46:26] <cmn32480> one of my favorites
[02:46:42] <cmn32480> I'm still early in... Residue Processing
[02:47:08] <juggs> I've only run through it once - I know I missed a lot. I'll come back to it at some point.
[02:47:28] <cmn32480> but I hadn't played in about 15 years, but Steam had it on sale w/ a whole bunch of other stuff for like $25
[02:48:04] <juggs> likewise - I picked up the recent steam bundle in the summer sale.
[02:48:22] <cmn32480> probably the same bundle!
[02:48:33] <cmn32480> all sirfinkus's fault, i think
[02:48:43] <cmn32480> he's the rat who posted the link
[02:50:26] <juggs> Bundle with a shed load of counter-strike, Day of Defeat, Half-Life (2), Left 4 Dead 2, Portal etc, ?
[02:50:35] <cmn32480> uh huh
[02:50:37] <cmn32480> that's the one
[02:50:52] <cmn32480> a good deal in my eyes
[02:51:25] <cmn32480> somebody said that they watched for steam deal because it allowed them to buy all the games they pirated years ago
[02:53:01] <juggs> For sure - can't remember the price I paid but $ per hour - well worth it. I played out Half-Life, L4D2, Portal - then got distracted by No More Room In Hell - that is an interesting tactical game - freebie too with no DLC.
[02:54:04] <cmn32480> if it was the bundle I got, it was like $25 US. cheap as hell for games hat were all $50+ when they came out.
[02:56:29] <juggs> Yeh - same deal. What's your Steam nick? I'll add you up. Would be good to get an SN crew going :)
[02:56:37] <cmn32480> same
[02:56:56] <cmn32480> been using this nick for somethign like 20 years... most everywhere
[02:57:07] <juggs> "same" is the nick?
[02:57:19] <cmn32480> no...same as here
[02:57:21] <cmn32480> cmn32480
[02:57:34] <cmn32480> great... now I'm seeing double
[02:57:38] <cmn32480> :-)
[02:57:58] <cmn32480> if there are now two of me, my wife is gonna be pissed!
[03:00:15] <juggs> I see lots of cmn but no cmn32480. You should be able to find me as PerfectlyRestored - fo reasons known only to Steam "juggs" was not permissible :D
[03:00:40] <cmn32480> hmmmm can't imagine why....
[03:01:01] <juggs> I know, I know....
[03:01:12] <cmn32480> done
[03:01:23] <juggs> And accpted
[03:01:42] <cmn32480> and there you are!
[03:01:54] <cmn32480> my first Steam friend...
[03:03:18] <juggs> I see Spalls Hurg online - tap him up in #Soylent for his nick - you may double your steam friend count in one fell swoop! I have the grand total of 3 friends :D
[03:03:41] <cmn32480> ooo multiple NC***anders I bet ours is the one in Pakistan!
[03:04:58] <cmn32480> our next ebbq should be Team Fortress Classic, or CounterStrike
[03:06:13] <juggs> NC does not like FPS type games so I guess CS is out. Never played TF.... sounds more strategy which may work if it is.
[03:06:30] <cmn32480> nope. straight FPS
[03:07:12] <cmn32480> TFC was based on the HL world and engine, and was a small free with HL multiplayer
[03:07:20] <juggs> Well we could have a staff eBBQ and not invite the board members :D
[03:07:51] <cmn32480> tha coudl be done.
[03:11:34] <cmn32480> though we ought to invite them... even if they only put in an appearance on skype or something
[03:14:04] <cmn32480> NOw into Questionable Ethics
[03:14:13] <cmn32480> but I don't get to play much
[03:14:27] <cmn32480> wife kids... work... travel for work....
[03:15:00] <juggs> We have a SoylentNews group - Spalls set it up then handed over the reins to me - just looking for a way to invite you that group - must be in this steam client somewhere surely
[03:16:11] <cmn32480> Soylent Gaming?
[03:16:28] <juggs> Perhaps you need to ask to join the Group SoylentNews
[03:16:40] <cmn32480> I have 1 firend in this group
[03:16:43] <juggs> Called "SoylentNews" as far as I can see
[03:16:56] <cmn32480> gotta be you.. since I don't have any others!@
[03:17:13] <juggs> Logic defeats all :)
[03:17:37] <juggs> Ohh - I found an "Invite Friends" button
[03:17:55] <cmn32480> I'm already there....
[03:18:20] <cmn32480> who is the asian character named guy?
[03:18:21] <juggs> lol - is that because the group is set "Public"? I have no clue
[03:18:32] <cmn32480> yup. gotta be
[03:20:14] <juggs> The asian char guy is SirFinkus IIRC. Not sure who the Artificial guy is.
[03:21:48] <cmn32480> ok... was wondering
[03:53:51] <juggs> cmn32480, that short half-life "I'll just do this one level" has turned out to be not so short hasn't it :D
[03:54:08] <cmn32480> um... nooooo
[03:54:38] <cmn32480> that was only an hour and a half ago....
[03:55:01] <cmn32480> juggs... you know the trap well, I'm guessing?
[03:56:46] <juggs> Getting sucked into a game - oh yes.. all too well. I always get obsessed with clearing "just one more level, how long could it take" :D
[03:57:04] <cmn32480> in HL the levels are so long that it can be hours
[03:57:09] <cmn32480> part of the fun
[03:58:22] <cmn32480> OK. I hit a new level.
[03:58:27] <cmn32480> time to stop
[03:58:33] <juggs> Clear it!
[03:58:36] <cmn32480> I just made the surface
[03:58:39] <juggs> You know you want to!
[03:58:40] <cmn32480> bed time
[03:58:43] <cmn32480> OH yes
[03:58:46] <cmn32480> very much
[03:58:51] <cmn32480> how long could it take?
[03:59:04] <juggs> 10 minutes? 20 max....
[03:59:08] <cmn32480> hehehe
[03:59:11] <cmn32480> yeah
[04:00:15] <juggs> That's how my thought process goes at least on clearing a level. Complete BS of course, it is internal deception seeking the next endorphin hit of clearing the next level.
[04:00:39] <cmn32480> right
[04:00:46] <cmn32480> and that is why I am gonna stop
[04:00:51] <cmn32480> for tongiht
[04:01:37] <cmn32480> thanks for the encouragement juggs
[04:01:41] <cmn32480> but it is bedtime
[04:01:54] <cmn32480> sleep well, my friend
[04:01:55] <juggs> I was trying to lead you astray
[04:02:01] <cmn32480> I konw.
[04:02:09] <cmn32480> and it was an admirable attempt
[04:02:09] <juggs> sleep well
[04:02:44] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|sleepin
[10:35:55] <takyon> hi i'm takyon and i've been sober for a few hours
[10:36:07] <takyon> let's talk about the github story
[10:39:56] <takyon> http://boards.4chan.org
[10:40:01] <exec> └─ 13/g/ - GitHub ban "WebM for Retards" - Technology - 4chan
[10:40:24] <takyon> the submitter seems to be in that thread
[10:40:54] <takyon> I can't find any other sources so I will send an email see if I can get some clarification
[11:02:36] <takyon> emailed the submitter, I'll keep the story off display until I can do another check for non-original research
[11:09:11] zz_janrinok is now known as janrinok
[11:14:41] <takyon> hi janrinok
[11:18:50] <janrinok> hi takyon
[11:19:43] <janrinok> I'm guessing that the reason that the repo was pulled is because it uses offensive language?
[11:20:38] <janrinok> ... and GitHub don't have to explain why they do something - there is no contract, they offer their service for free.
[11:21:17] <janrinok> I think we are stooping a bit low to publish this one, imho
[11:23:26] <janrinok> I wonder if someone who has seen SourceForge go down is now trying to stir things up and make the same thing happen with GH?
[11:24:26] <takyon> well we know exactly who this person is
[11:24:46] <takyon> Duane Bekaert, lives in France
[11:24:48] <janrinok> ah, we do?
[11:25:25] <janrinok> could you do a quick 2nd pse on the UK MPs story - its already gone out but better late than never
[11:25:39] <takyon> the individual seems normal, and the submission is written factually and non-flamebaity
[11:26:28] <janrinok> I still don't see that GH have to explain themselves.
[11:26:57] <takyon> that's true, they don't
[11:27:19] <takyon> but they probably want to explain themselves in the long run so that they have an understanding with their users
[11:27:25] <janrinok> I suppose someone could argue it is no worse than 'XXX for Dummies', but many will find the term 'retards' more offensive
[11:27:45] <takyon> beats me how popular WebM for Retards was, but apparently enough to start a tiny shitstorm
[11:27:58] <takyon> although from what I can tell Duane probably started that 4chan thread
[11:28:16] <janrinok> it's because 4chan prefers webm format for their video posts
[11:28:40] <takyon> ah good point
[11:28:42] <janrinok> so the prog will be v popular with them
[11:29:23] <janrinok> we are in danger of taking sides in a 4chan argument, and probably backing the loser too
[11:29:48] <janrinok> thx for the 2nd on those stories
[11:30:14] <takyon> I notice Arthur T Knackerbracket includes character entities for special chars/Unicode
[11:31:08] <janrinok> it's just the way it decodes the scrape - there are too many possibilities for it to get it right every time. CharEnts always works, but it is on my todo list
[11:31:13] <takyon> I got an email back from Duane just now
[11:31:29] <takyon> there's nothing wrong with the character entities really
[11:31:56] <takyon> I have forwarded you the email
[11:32:12] <janrinok> I've got a least 6 different encodings for stories found on rss-bot
[11:32:25] <janrinok> and some sites break the rules even for those
[11:32:59] <takyon> isn't there one encoding to rule them all: UTF-8, or am I missing your point
[11:33:26] <takyon> (like it being related to how Python interprets the input)
[11:33:28] <janrinok> they don't follow the rules, but embed their own characters in different ways
[11:34:09] <takyon> well mismatch of declared encoding on an HTML document and the contents is pretty widespread. I've been guilty of it myself
[11:34:14] <janrinok> some sites declare UTF-8 but actually have CharEnts in the raw html, even before python looks at it
[11:35:18] <takyon> I don't think that's too bad. Worse would be declaring as Latin-1 and then including raw unicode characters
[11:35:29] <janrinok> was the email of interest?
[11:35:56] <takyon> basically confirms this is original research type stuff
[11:36:28] <takyon> I'm willing to stamp my name on it because it is factual and pretty neutral
[11:36:37] <takyon> "name"
[11:36:44] <janrinok> lol
[11:39:02] <janrinok> going back to your comment at minute :27, I'm not sure that GH will want to make the matter that public, they will discuss it with the repo holder but might just ignore others unless there is too much bad publicity.
[11:39:34] <takyon> we'll see, Duane said he'll forward a response if he gets one
[11:40:23] <takyon> I'm pretty amused with these driverless opinion polls years before even 1% of the respondents use the technology
[11:40:40] <takyon> support is going to go way up once it's commercially available
[11:43:40] <janrinok> just reading the T and Cs for GitHub - they quite categorically state that they reserve the right to close repos, or 'refuse or remove' any content etc....
[11:45:25] <janrinok> including the right to remove 'unlawful, offensive, threatening, libelous, defamatory, pornographic, obscene or otherwise objectionable' material
[11:46:22] <takyon> I might throw that in
[11:46:37] <janrinok> If Bekeart gets a reply, I suspect it will be along the lines of 'contravention of General Terms # 7' or somesuchg
[11:47:20] <janrinok> https://help.github.com
[11:47:26] <exec> └─ 13GitHub Terms of Service - User Documentation - 03https://help.github.com/articles/github-terms-of-service/
[11:48:52] <janrinok> #8 also covers 'Verbal, physical, written or other abuse...' - not sure how they veiw the word 'retard'
[11:51:41] <takyon> ok so you are definitely using an old version of my extension and it definitely flubs lists, like the one in the driverless article
[11:52:00] <takyon> I'm going to 1. fix that list, and 2. write some code and release a new version
[11:52:02] <janrinok> version 9.1 is not the most current?
[11:53:20] <janrinok> def 9.1 installed here
[11:53:33] <takyon> I doubt you are using version 9.1....... let me see if my end does the same thing
[11:54:26] <takyon> when I edit the story it doesn't do the broken replacement.... unless perhaps it is line break related
[11:55:12] <janrinok> I've just diffed mine with v9.1 redownloaded - they are the same. I can't see a version number inside the code that I have downloaded.
[11:55:41] <takyon> hah, it doesn't include one. I should do that
[11:56:05] <takyon> but that is troubling since this problem should have been fixed in 9.1 from when paul pointed it out to me
[11:59:01] <takyon> if it includes the old code, it should be the two lines after:
[11:59:01] <takyon> temp = temp.replace(/<\/li><li>/g,"<\/li>\n<li>");
[11:59:26] <janrinok> you've changed it to an ordered list?
[12:00:47] <takyon> they are 3 levels
[12:01:04] <takyon> although maybe the order is reversed?
[12:01:14] <takyon> I've also seen a 5 level list on previous driverless car articles
[12:01:16] <janrinok> yes, I was referring to the story, you have changed the ul to ol?
[12:01:38] <takyon> yeh I'll change it back
[12:02:05] <takyon> that error my extension caused made it unclear whether it was UL or OL
[12:02:17] <janrinok> I'm just clutching at straws - but that is the bit of code that gets inserted into the text when it cocks up
[12:02:28] <takyon> because it replaces that part with (ul|ol)
[12:02:48] <janrinok> k
[12:02:59] <takyon> well the two lines I mentioned shouldn't look like the (presumably fixed) following:
[12:03:05] <takyon> temp = temp.replace(/(<\/li>)(<\/[u|o]l>)/g,'$1\n$2');
[12:03:10] <takyon> temp = temp.replace(/(<\/p>)(<[u|o]l>)/g,'$1\n$2');
[12:03:39] <janrinok> exactly what I have on screen
[12:04:32] <takyon> maybe there's a mismatch between what is "on screen" and what is actually saved in your extension manager
[12:04:59] <takyon> for example I have the code in a donwloaded file, and in my Tampermonkey extension. they don't match until I copy and paste it into Tampermonkey and save it
[12:05:44] <janrinok> well I install it via greasemonkey, but I'm confident that is what it installs
[12:07:59] <takyon> I'll go through the code slowly, look to see if the problem is replicated somewhere, do my other fixes, then publish. If you still have the problem, you'll know when you attempt to make a list
[12:08:11] <janrinok> :)
[14:15:47] -!- martyb [martyb!~martyb@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #editorial
[14:15:47] -!- mode/#editorial [+v martyb] by SkyNet
[14:40:40] <martyb> cmn32480|sleepin, come to find out, I had the correct password at the outset, but I was connecting to the wrong port; should have been port 6697 instead of 60000
[14:41:09] <martyb> but, thanks to your info I was able to retrieve the info I needed and, well, here I am! =)
[14:46:12] <cmn32480|sleepin> question becomes.. what nick are you gonne use martyb or Bytram?
[14:46:29] <martyb> oh, gotta fix that
[14:46:48] <cmn32480|sleepin> both are registered w/ nickserve
[14:47:02] <martyb> yeah, I see that
[14:47:04] <martyb> hmmm
[14:47:16] <martyb> oh, doh!
[14:47:24] <martyb> that's cause the bouncer is ehre
[14:47:29] <martyb> that's cause the bouncer is here as me
[14:47:36] <cmn32480|sleepin> right
[14:47:48] <cmn32480|sleepin> I was trying to get you connected to the bouncer
[14:47:54] <cmn32480|sleepin> that is the port 60000
[14:48:15] <cmn32480|sleepin> not a direct connect, whcih is 6667
[14:48:23] <cmn32480|sleepin> *6697
[14:48:24] <martyb> aha! no problemo (I hope) I printed out the appropriate section from the .conf filenod nod
[14:48:46] <cmn32480|sleepin> you shodl be able to copy and paste the whole thing and get connected as was
[14:48:57] <martyb> it's coming back to me... I'm gonna give it a go... back in a bit
[14:49:04] -!- martyb has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[14:49:06] <cmn32480|sleepin> one of the benefits of /conf files instead of the registry
[14:57:24] <janrinok> hi guys!!
[14:58:16] <janrinok> just been cutting the grass - before it rains again
[14:59:03] <cmn32480|sleepin> I'm headed outr to tdo the same thign
[14:59:11] cmn32480|sleepin is now known as cmn32480
[14:59:20] <janrinok> well, best wishes to you and your family!
[14:59:21] <cmn32480> janrinok !!
[14:59:26] <janrinok> cmn32480: !!
[14:59:29] <cmn32480> ti you and S as well
[14:59:41] <janrinok> thx
[14:59:43] -!- martyb [martyb!~martyb|af@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #editorial
[14:59:43] -!- mode/#editorial [+v martyb] by SkyNet
[15:00:09] <martyb> well, I'm back and that did not quite work at all
[15:00:11] <cmn32480> J is upstairs getting dressed, kids are at the table eating a let breakfast... I've been up for hours... have already gone and done the Soccer season volunteer work
[15:00:22] <cmn32480> nuts.
[15:00:33] <martyb> then leave me be, and I'll have fun sorting itout!
[15:00:44] <janrinok> martyb: !! back to the old name !
[15:00:54] <martyb> I've got this much working, so I am not totally disconnected. it'll work out!
[15:01:16] <janrinok> still a happy bunny with your new machine?
[15:01:29] <martyb> yuppers!
[15:01:32] <janrinok> gooders
[15:01:43] <janrinok> brb - nurse needs help
[15:01:49] <martyb> janrinok, scrollback and you'll see that I am not, atm, through the bouncer, but it'll do for now.
[15:02:00] <martyb> no biggee in the grand scheme of things
[15:02:04] <martyb> nod nod
[15:02:13] <cmn32480> yeah, but it is easy to leave messages for people this way w/ bouncer
[15:02:45] <martyb> true that.
[15:03:11] <cmn32480> check the section on connecting your IRC client to bouncer here:
[15:03:13] <cmn32480> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[15:03:15] <exec> └─ 13ZNC - SoylentNews
[15:03:25] <martyb> as it is, I completely forgot to stop by the cell store to see about installing my tethering program on this box.
[15:03:30] <martyb> will do.
[15:03:39] <cmn32480> back at the library?
[15:03:44] <martyb> I'll play iwht that a bit...
[15:03:48] <martyb> yes, librarby
[15:03:56] <cmn32480> okie
[15:04:00] <cmn32480> well you have fun.
[15:04:05] <cmn32480> I gotta get the grass cut
[15:04:15] <martyb> gonna download ubuntu mate and prolly both vmware and virtualbox
[15:04:28] <cmn32480> before my MIL gets here, then gotta get ready for the concert tonight
[15:04:33] <martyb> I see, now, what you were trying to do last night with hexchat,
[15:04:43] <martyb> just didn't quite get it at the time. I apologize.
[15:04:49] <cmn32480> np
[15:04:55] <martyb> concert? nice, I hope!
[15:05:00] <cmn32480> tech support via text message is tough
[15:05:02] <martyb> AC/DCC?
[15:05:06] <cmn32480> BIlly Joel;
[15:05:14] <martyb> that's better
[15:05:24] <martyb> hope you have fun!
[15:05:25] <cmn32480> I wanted AC/DC trickets, but cou'dn't get them
[15:05:43] <cmn32480> basically had the $$ for 1 or the other
[15:05:57] <cmn32480> J doesn't really care for AC/DC
[15:06:03] <cmn32480> so Billy Joel it was
[15:06:04] <martyb> I was j/k -- didn't realize that was actually a *possibility* !!!
[15:06:12] <cmn32480> oh yeah
[15:06:14] <martyb> strange!
[15:06:34] <cmn32480> Foxborough in August
[15:06:40] <cmn32480> 22
[15:06:50] <cmn32480> East Rutherford, NJ on August 26
[15:06:55] <martyb> patriots' sadium?
[15:07:02] <cmn32480> yup
[15:07:10] <cmn32480> tehn Giants Stadium 4 days later
[15:07:29] <martyb> nod nod
[15:07:32] <cmn32480> I tried for tix in East Rutherford, sold out in like 6 minutes
[15:07:52] <martyb> I like the old days where a stadium/venue had one name and one name only, for ever and ever!
[15:07:54] <janrinok> Billy Joel is one of the few concerts I have actually been to
[15:07:54] * cmn32480 writes a note to check stubhub
[15:08:26] <cmn32480> I've seen him 8(?) times
[15:08:30] <martyb> hadn't seen him. Saw Orleans in a 150-person venue once -- *awesome*
[15:08:32] <janrinok> Berlin 1989
[15:08:34] <cmn32480> several of those were with Elton John
[15:09:14] <cmn32480> my son is _actually_ crying over spilled milk
[15:09:18] <cmn32480> sigh
[15:09:21] <martyb> I'm not much of a concert-goer...
[15:09:23] <martyb> really?
[15:09:30] <cmn32480> he's 5
[15:09:34] <cmn32480> yes, really
[15:09:35] <martyb> fact is stranger than fiction, eh?
[15:09:40] <cmn32480> yes
[15:09:49] <janrinok> what's age got to do with it - I get upset when I spill my cocoa
[15:10:03] <janrinok> ... on my slippers
[15:10:06] <martyb> especially when it lands in the lap!
[15:10:12] <cmn32480> Fisrt time I saw Billy/Elton was 1994 in East Rutherford, NJ.... 4 hour concert, just me and 60,000 of my closest friends
[15:10:33] <janrinok> was that before J?
[15:10:37] <martyb> all your other friends were farther (further?) away!
[15:10:44] <cmn32480> LONG before J
[15:10:54] <cmn32480> 8 years?
[15:10:59] <cmn32480> I was 14 at the time
[15:11:05] <janrinok> so you were still yet to me
[15:11:13] <janrinok> meet your best friend!
[15:11:18] <cmn32480> yes
[15:11:46] * martyb looks for where to get ubuntu_mate
[15:11:59] <cmn32480> Saw Billy ad the Igloo in Pittsburg
[15:11:59] <janrinok> well, you had better cut the grass or you might me going down a notch or two
[15:12:03] <cmn32480> the Spectrum in PHilly
[15:12:15] <cmn32480> Citizens Bank park in Philly w/ Elton John
[15:12:19] <janrinok> so I suppose we could call you a fan...
[15:12:24] <cmn32480> or whereever the PHillies play
[15:12:52] <cmn32480> Madison Square Garden (3 days before Christmas as a gift for all of us form my parents)
[15:13:07] <martyb> hmmm.... Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu MATE/ Cinnamon
[15:13:10] <cmn32480> tongiht at M&T bank Stadium in Baltimore
[15:13:24] <janrinok> martyb: I suggest you download MATE 14.04 unless you want systemd
[15:13:26] <cmn32480> einey meany miney moe!
[15:13:36] <martyb> janrinok, good enough for me!
[15:13:40] <janrinok> it's still got support until 2019
[15:14:17] <martyb> that should be enough for the time being
[15:14:23] <janrinok> and any problems with systemd should have been resolved by then or it will have been replaced
[15:14:29] <martyb> nod nod
[15:14:32] <cmn32480> by then he might have a new lappy again...
[15:14:55] <martyb> by then, I finally have this one set up!
[15:14:57] <martyb> =)
[15:15:00] <janrinok> https://ubuntu-mate.org
[15:15:03] <cmn32480> hehe
[15:15:04] <exec> └─ 13Download Ubuntu MATE 14.04.2 | Ubuntu MATE
[15:15:13] <cmn32480> ok kids... I gotta go get the grass done
[15:15:14] <martyb> thought that would be good for a chuckle!
[15:15:24] <cmn32480> see you all in a bit
[15:15:29] <martyb> cmn32480, may it go quickly for ya!
[15:15:41] <cmn32480> I kinda enjoy it
[15:15:46] <cmn32480> they all leave me alone]
[15:15:54] <martyb> I understand that!
[15:15:57] <janrinok> take care
[15:16:01] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|grass
[15:16:04] <martyb> if they get too close, they'll get to help!
[15:16:13] <cmn32480|grass> nope... run over
[15:16:17] <martyb> janrinok, thanks for the link.... on my way
[15:16:30] <cmn32480|grass> back in a while
[15:16:44] <janrinok> is there a cap on dl at the library?
[15:17:24] <martyb> I am not aware of any, and even it there is, I intend to use wget to retrieve it, so I can --continue from whatever I *do* manage to D/L
[15:17:37] <janrinok> I suspect there is none at all
[15:18:12] <martyb> LIVEHttpHeaders is a fantastic plugin -- shows all the paths accessed and I can always grab the final D/L link from its log
[15:18:17] <martyb> same here
[15:19:11] <janrinok> another 'advantage' of 14.04 is that I am on the same version, and can easily talk you through anything that surprises you/us
[15:19:48] <martyb> kewel!
[15:20:00] <martyb> I've got win 7 pro -- 64bit
[15:20:03] <janrinok> although NC has forgotten more that I will ever know ;(
[15:20:11] <janrinok> more than*
[15:20:15] <martyb> should I grb the 64bit or take the x86?
[15:20:41] <martyb> I'm thinking there may be a small performance hit, but the x86 would be more portable
[15:20:49] <janrinok> you can take the 64bit - that's the best for running in a VM
[15:21:02] <martyb> orly? nice!
[15:21:09] * martyb looks again
[15:21:20] <janrinok> what CPU are you running?
[15:21:35] <martyb> gotta check... brb
[15:21:45] <janrinok> no! take the X86
[15:22:23] <martyb> core 2 duo P8700 @ 2.53 GHz
[15:22:42] <janrinok> take the x86, it gives you both 32 and 64 bit support
[15:22:57] <martyb> eve betterer!
[15:23:03] <martyb> s/eve/even/
[15:23:13] <janrinok> I don't know if you will need any older packages for some of your data - I suspect not, but no harm either way
[15:23:41] <martyb> worse comes to worst, I could always D/L the 64-bit later, if I find that I need it
[15:24:42] <janrinok> exactly, I've just done a quick look through and either will work on your machine
[15:25:09] <martyb> I don't think I can torrent here, though
[15:25:23] <janrinok> what is the download speed ?
[15:25:26] <martyb> guess I'll try canada, eh?
[15:25:30] <martyb> =)
[15:25:38] <martyb> yesterday, I saw 2MB/s
[15:26:10] <janrinok> just stop a second pse
[15:26:15] * martyb goes to make a place to put it
[15:26:15] <martyb> k
[15:26:40] <janrinok> the page is saying that the x86 is for i386 machines - you certainly don't need that!
[15:26:48] <martyb> huh?
[15:27:35] <janrinok> if you look down the page, the 3 downloads are ....i386, ....AMD64 and ... AMD64_Mac
[15:27:52] <janrinok> you need AMD64 - you have def got a 64 bit machine
[15:27:53] <martyb> nod nod
[15:28:19] <martyb> that would be running *natively*, though, right?
[15:28:24] <martyb> waht aboutin a VM?
[15:28:31] <janrinok> yep - but they do in a VM
[15:28:47] <martyb> AMD64 in a VM is good?
[15:29:06] <janrinok> you create a mini-computer inside windows. It doesn't know about the Windows 'surrounding' it
[15:29:23] <martyb> k
[15:29:29] <janrinok> you format the drive in the VM for linux i.e. ext4 or whatever
[15:29:46] <janrinok> well, it will do that itself
[15:30:09] <martyb> so, if I wanted to, I could run AMD64 code in a VM on a 32-bit machine?
[15:30:15] <martyb> slowly,of course!
[15:30:37] <janrinok> no - missing instructions in the CPU.
[15:30:58] <martyb> so the VM would not emulate those.
[15:31:13] <janrinok> No you run with the CPU you have installed
[15:31:50] <martyb> got it; the VM code just puts a 'wall' aound what's executing. can't explain well, but from my IBM VM days, I get the idea.
[15:31:54] <janrinok> you tell the VM how much memory to allocate, how much disk space, which USB ports it can access etc
[15:32:09] <martyb> it just passes the instructions *through* to the bare metal
[15:32:25] <martyb> if the actual CPU ain't got that instruction, no joy for you.
[15:32:32] <janrinok> it creates an environment and yes, passes the instruction through to the CPU
[15:32:44] <martyb> other systems I've see will emulate the missing instructions.
[15:33:02] <martyb> obviously runs much faster natively!
[15:33:08] <martyb> k
[15:33:11] <janrinok> the CPU has to run both win and linux, hence the slightly slower speed. You might allocate 1 CPU for your VM
[15:33:27] <martyb> so, to confirm, I should grab the AMD64 image.
[15:33:44] <janrinok> correct
[15:33:54] <martyb> I'm taking the first HTTP D/L link: http://can.ubuntu-mate.net
[15:34:03] <janrinok> no
[15:34:17] <janrinok> that is the i386, take the second with is the AMD64
[15:34:17] <martyb> oops.
[15:34:37] <martyb> http://can.ubuntu-mate.net
[15:34:46] <janrinok> correct
[15:34:56] * martyb is still getting used to the different UI of Win7 vs XP
[15:35:13] <janrinok> just before they change it for Win 10?
[15:35:37] <martyb> ain't touching that one for a long time!
[15:35:41] <janrinok> don't forget to switch off automatic updates on your windows, otherwise they will just update it
[15:36:07] <martyb> it's got tentacles throughout it trying to exract as much info about me as it can, as well as SaaS built in.
[15:36:22] <martyb> I'll wait for quite a while before I even *consider* going there!
[15:36:30] <janrinok> let me know when the dl starts, as I've got to go cook a meal
[15:36:34] <martyb> nod nod
[15:36:39] <martyb> give me a minute or two
[15:36:42] <janrinok> np
[15:38:44] <martyb> on its way... I'm seeing about 700 KB/s atm
[15:38:54] <janrinok> that's not bad
[15:39:00] <martyb> went up to 1.5 MB/s
[15:39:18] <janrinok> you'll have it in no time at all
[15:39:19] <martyb> down to 300 KB/s
[15:39:36] <martyb> ETA is about 30 minutes
[15:39:38] <janrinok> right, gtg. I'll get back on as quick as I can
[15:39:48] <martyb> thanks bunches!
[15:39:53] <martyb> best to S
[15:39:57] <janrinok> pleasure is all mine, and thx
[15:40:06] janrinok is now known as janrinok_afk
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[15:41:25] <martyb> coinnection hiccupped
[16:01:59] <martyb> massive speed fluctuations, but just hit half-way on the D/L
[16:27:35] <martyb> now to find virtual box and vmware
[16:27:53] <martyb> d/l completed fro ubuntu-mate, but I did not note what time it was...
[16:29:05] <martyb> good thing I updated my commadn prompt! 11:38 .. 12:19 (Not bad at all for 1.1 GB or so)
[16:30:53] <martyb> virtualbox: http://www.oracle.com
[16:30:57] <exec> └─ 13Oracle VM VirtualBox - Downloads | Oracle Technology Network | Oracle
[16:32:29] <martyb> http://download.virtualbox.org
[16:34:31] <martyb> ext pack: http://download.virtualbox.org
[16:35:46] <martyb> while I'm at it, might as well grad the .deb for ubuntu 14.04: http://download.virtualbox.org
[16:46:14] <martyb> virtualbox: http://www.oracle.com
[16:46:16] <exec> └─ 13Oracle VM VirtualBox - Downloads | Oracle Technology Network | Oracle
[16:46:38] <martyb> oops, copy/paste error
[17:06:53] <martyb> copy over 105K files from external drive to local; also just did a D/L of 20 windows updates (190+ MB)
[17:08:22] <martyb> looks like another 15minutes to go; gonna take a break
[17:09:49] janrinok_afk is now known as janrinok
[17:11:53] <janrinok> the ubuntu download looks like it took about 50 minutes
[17:21:33] <martyb> nod nod
[17:21:53] <martyb> looks like the windows updates need a reboot.
[17:22:12] <martyb> I need to get going, so I'm going to hibernate and let it finish up later.
[17:22:23] <martyb> hmmm.
[17:22:30] <cmn32480|grass> safe day marty
[17:22:38] <cmn32480|grass> I'm leaveing to head into the city for the concert
[17:22:40] <martyb> cmn32480|grass, thanks!
[17:22:46] cmn32480|grass is now known as cmn32480
[17:22:55] <martyb> was really productive usnig the connection here; peaked out at about 1.7MB/s
[17:22:57] <martyb> =)
[17:23:02] <cmn32480> very nice
[17:23:07] <martyb> thanks again guys! you're the best!
[17:23:12] -!- martyb has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:23:18] <cmn32480> at this point we are mostly spectating
[17:25:13] <janrinok> well I hope you 2 have a good day
[17:25:45] <cmn32480> you do the same janrinok
[17:25:53] <cmn32480> have a quiet evening
[17:26:02] <cmn32480> when do you leave for the wedding?
[17:26:05] <janrinok> my day is already evening - couple of hours and I'll be in bed!
[17:26:21] <cmn32480> 7:30 if I do the math right
[17:26:25] <janrinok> around the 18th Aug and get back 2 Sep I think?
[17:26:30] <cmn32480> ok
[17:26:34] <cmn32480> just checking
[17:26:38] <janrinok> yeah, I'll be in bed by 10pm
[17:26:47] <cmn32480> lucky dog
[17:26:53] <cmn32480> most nights I'd be jealous
[17:26:59] <cmn32480> but not tonight!
[17:27:08] <janrinok> you enjoy your concert - MIL arrived yet?
[17:27:19] <cmn32480> yeah. took kids to the movies
[17:27:30] <janrinok> so it's just you a J for the concert?
[17:27:33] <cmn32480> so we are gonna run some errands... then head to Baltimore
[17:27:38] <cmn32480> thank God
[17:27:46] <cmn32480> if I had to take the kids I'd be broke
[17:28:02] <janrinok> well, I hope you both enjoy the evening, and a bit of time for yourselves
[17:28:08] <cmn32480> amen!
[17:28:19] <cmn32480> we are certainly going to try
[17:28:28] <janrinok> ... and, I suspect, succeed
[17:28:33] <cmn32480> my best to S. gotta run!
[17:28:38] <janrinok> thx bye
[17:28:44] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|BillyJoel
[17:28:48] <janrinok> lol
[17:28:52] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> what?
[17:29:10] * cmn32480|BillyJoel looks around in a surprised fashion
[17:29:14] janrinok is now known as BillyJoel_is_janrino
[17:29:28] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> sweet... do I get backstage passes BillyJoel_is_janrino
[17:29:31] BillyJoel_is_janrino is now known as janrinok
[17:29:42] <janrinok> tell them I sent you
[17:30:13] <janrinok> tell him I was 27 rows back in Berlin in 1989
[17:30:29] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> I'm sure he remembers you
[17:30:43] <janrinok> oh, he waved, I'm sure it was to me
[17:31:41] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> LOL
[17:32:02] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> When I get that private moment wiht him, I'll tell him you said hello
[17:32:20] <janrinok> now hurry up before you get into trouble :)
[17:32:37] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> yes, Dad
[17:32:42] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> c u later!
[17:32:47] <janrinok> and no talking to strangers
[17:33:30] <cmn32480|BillyJoel> one of my favorite songs.... The Stranger
[18:05:47] janrinok is now known as zz_janrinok
[18:30:30] <takyon> "core 2 duo P8700 @ 2.53 GHz" going to have to look that up
[19:51:21] chromas_ is now known as chromas
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