#editorial | Logs for 2015-05-29

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[00:13:23] <takyon> "too smelly to submit"
[00:13:31] <takyon> what the heck is that error
[00:18:15] <juggs> sounds interesting :)
[00:18:28] <takyon> it's about an ag-gag story
[00:18:45] <takyon> maybe it's the word "feces"
[00:19:01] <takyon> I'll replace it with the "ae" character
[00:20:42] <takyon> yup that was the frigging problem
[00:20:51] <takyon> I'm glad I added "ae" to my extension now
[00:22:15] <juggs> I've never seen faeces spelt as "feces" before - my one thing learnt for the day :)
[00:22:39] <takyon> probably america coddling
[00:23:49] <juggs> perhaps ~shrug~ Bit sad the filter doesn't catch the other spelling variations if indeed we need it at all :/
[02:00:01] -!- cmn32480 [cmn32480!~cmn32480@Soylent/Staff/Editor/cmn32480] has joined #editorial
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[02:00:50] <cmn32480> when did the link ot the original submission start showing up? or am I just hopelessly out of the loop?
[02:37:54] <takyon> janrinok obsessively adds them
[02:38:15] <takyon> I think paulej72 is working on a more permanent solution
[02:41:24] <cmn32480> oh really.
[02:41:40] <cmn32480> I thought it was a coded in thing
[02:41:53] <juggs> methinks janrinok is trying to prove a point if that is so
[02:42:25] <cmn32480> methinks juggs is correct
[02:44:03] <takyon> I'm not so sure.
[02:44:11] <takyon> I think there were a few discussions around here
[02:44:21] <juggs> Hard to tell without version control on subs.
[02:44:49] <juggs> https://soylentnews.org I see no janrinok edit on this yet it has the orginal sub link
[02:44:50] <Scruffy> ^ 03- SoylentNews User ( https://soylentnews.org )
[02:45:03] <takyon> well I know janrinok added a bunch because I watched it happen
[02:46:13] <cmn32480> it is very interesting. personally I like the idea.
[02:46:14] <takyon> anyway it's <hr>[Editor's Comment: <a href="">Original Submission</a>]
[02:47:33] <cmn32480> it doenst' seem to show until they go live on the front page.
[02:47:52] <cmn32480> i reverse myself.
[02:48:01] <takyon> it's just cache
[02:48:14] <takyon> delayer of edits
[02:49:03] <cmn32480> dunno.
[02:49:45] <juggs> https://soylentnews.org I see it here on a story yet to go live but is scheduled to. It is in the content. Strikes me this is not a system thing.
[02:49:46] <Scruffy> ^ 03Error
[02:50:46] <cmn32480> i think you are correct juggs. the two that I jsut put in the queue don't ahve it either.
[02:53:04] <juggs> Well this is silly, editorial team lead or rep thereof needs to bring it up in #chillax not just unilaterally apply it to all stories.
[02:56:54] <juggs> If there is a need for it, make it systemic "Submitted by", "Posted by" and put the editors signoffs public for transparency...
[02:57:15] <takyon> well coding is required
[02:57:25] <takyon> so we have to wait and do this for now to stem the whine
[02:58:09] <juggs> What whine?
[02:58:51] <takyon> users wanting to compare the article to the original submission
[02:58:52] <cmn32480> "you hacked up my sub and changed the whole meaning that I was trying to convey to not be plitcally right/left/whatever"
[02:59:16] <takyon> also users that didn't write it but don't trust us to get it right or whatever
[02:59:52] <takyon> and anybody that just supports transparency in general
[03:00:04] <takyon> it's hard to get the submission link if it's not on the page
[03:01:49] <cmn32480> how are you guys pulling the original sub link? or is it the first thing that gets added on an edit?
[03:02:32] <paulej72> slasldot puts the original sub in the related articles
[03:03:28] <cmn32480> so it does. I never noticed
[03:03:32] <paulej72> yes right now it's a manual edit. I need to add it into the sub to story mechanism
[03:03:48] <takyon> give paul his space
[03:03:51] <takyon> stay the course
[03:03:55] <juggs> Seriously guys, I think you are rushing to the solution without fully exploring the problem at this point. What is the problem?
[03:04:21] <takyon> well it's functionality that the users want, and was present at slashdot but not here
[03:04:23] <paulej72> whinny bastards
[03:04:35] <cmn32480> second^
[03:04:36] <takyon> and it's a transparency measure
[03:05:00] <juggs> paulej72, whiney bastards is not a problem, doesn't matter what we do we have those.
[03:05:50] <takyon> I don't think we can say that all the users that have asked for it are just complaining for complaints sake
[03:05:58] <takyon> I don't want to scour the comments to find examples though
[03:07:35] <cmn32480> even from the editorial perspective it is a cool feature
[03:08:01] <cmn32480> gives us the ability to see what it was and how it was changed. little bit of a learning experience
[03:09:29] <takyon> that's an entirely different feature if you're talking about a complete version history, which would be awesome
[03:10:16] <cmn32480> this gives us a start and end point. but I agree that would be nice to see what changed at each save point.
[03:16:01] <juggs> This is my point. Either editorial is a black box or it isn't. Do we want transparency or not? Giving just original sub and end result is black box, the community just get to see the input and output of that box. Are editorial afraid of complete transparency?
[03:16:47] <takyon> we're not afraid of it, it's just more work to get it going
[03:17:05] <takyon> and the situation with how we should edit has been rather fluid
[03:18:53] <cmn32480> IMHO starting and ending point are sufficient. (hopefully) minimal work required
[03:19:51] <cmn32480> the process for editing itself has been a bit loosey goosey. the guidlines are good, but each editor has a bit of their own style
[03:20:40] <takyon> you can only polish a turd so much
[03:21:03] <cmn32480> except on mythbusters... they got it nice and shiny
[03:21:19] <takyon> yeah bit did it become a mirror? no
[03:21:30] <juggs> It's not more work for editorial to get it working, it's version control during the editing process that would need dev input. It seems to me this latest development is a knee jerk reaction to one outspoken member of the community.
[03:22:09] <takyon> It's work until the coding is in place, which is work itself. and I think more than 1 user checks the submission
[03:22:34] <takyon> and I think users are more likely to check the submission when we indicate significant changes were made, which is a common and legit complaint among the submitters
[03:25:20] <cmn32480> gentlemen, my apologies for starting this discussion.
[03:26:44] <cmn32480> i have to get to bed, please let me know the outcome
[03:26:47] <cmn32480> thank you
[03:26:51] <cmn32480> and good night
[03:27:03] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|sleepin
[03:29:25] <juggs> takyon, you're putting the cart before the horse. If the community want an edit trail, sure let's deliver that. Taking a few comments on a few stories and forming a conclusion then unilaterally delivering a perceived resolution to the perceived problem solves nothing.
[03:30:13] <takyon> I'm not saying we need to have every single edit to the story visible to users. I'm saying the editors need it, because it's useful.
[03:30:35] <takyon> The original submission is somewhat useful to all users.
[03:30:56] <takyon> let me take a look at something
[03:32:36] <juggs> OK, let's test this, throw it out to the community (not users). I'll put a story together on this. Let the dice fall where they will.
[04:28:34] <juggs> Boom - there it goes, open for discussion. I personally think our editors do a sterling job and are unsung, let's see what the community think. Let us not shy from the sunlight :)
[04:48:56] <takyon> juggs
[04:49:20] <takyon> beetlejuggs beetlejuggs beetlejuggs
[04:50:56] <takyon> I was looking for a headline, I think I've got one now
[04:53:44] <juggs> takyon, you mystify me
[04:53:51] <takyon> I'm going 2fast
[04:54:04] <takyon> did we run an article on Tinder and stuff causing an STD outbreak in Rhode Island?
[04:56:59] <juggs> I read that elsewhere, looks like correlation blown out of proportion
[04:59:53] <takyon> google i/o is pretty boring
[05:00:15] <takyon> might sub something about Google Cardboard and put the rest in one paragraph
[05:03:09] <juggs> yeh, tech news has been pretty inundated with google i/o spaff the last few days.
[05:06:20] <takyon> well a lot of it came out today
[05:06:40] <takyon> the new android version, google cardboard, google photos, and other stuff
[05:07:17] <takyon> I already wrote up android, but the only thing catching my attention is cardboard
[05:07:22] <takyon> you have to admire cardboard
[05:07:36] <juggs> I do?
[05:09:28] <juggs> looks experimental to me.
[05:13:31] <juggs> Google + experimental = canned product. Nothing like outsourcing testing to reduce costs while still driving enthusiasm for the brand.
[05:19:20] <takyon> can't anyone make cardboard
[05:19:47] <takyon> it's practically an arts and crafts project that you slip your nexus phone in
[05:19:55] <takyon> with maybe some software to handle lensing or whatever
[05:22:33] <juggs> OK
[05:29:33] <takyon> well, good night
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[12:53:54] <Bytram> anybody here?
[12:57:08] * Bytram has busyt with life for a bit; just pushed out a story; it seems that we need to manually add the 'orginal submission' link...
[12:57:56] <Bytram> if that is incorrect, i.e. there's soemthing that automagically inserts that text upon publication, then there will be two copies in this story:
[12:58:02] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[12:58:03] <Scruffy> ^ 03Error
[12:58:17] <Bytram> "Chipmaker Avago Buys Broadcom for $37B "
[13:00:31] <Bytram> BTW, if we are to continue to include such a note, I'd advocate for a less 'glaring' version:
[13:01:25] <Bytram> <hr>[<a href="https://....">Original Submission</a> - Ed.]
[13:01:38] <Bytram> that's for the *short* term.
[13:05:19] <Bytram> Longer term, I have an idea for a less conspicuous, yet still accessible location.
[13:05:38] <Bytram> Take a look at this story: https://soylentnews.org "Planetary Society's Lightsail Software Glitch"
[13:05:39] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN article: Planetary Society's Lightsail Software Glitch 04(8 comments)
[13:06:21] <Bytram> When you have actually opened that story, look just below the story text itself and before the comments start.
[13:06:38] <Bytram> There is a 'section' entitled: 'Related Stories'
[13:07:40] <Bytram> under *that* I see this:
[13:07:42] <Bytram> <a href="https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=15/05/10/0030231">Planetary Society's "LightSail" Solar Sail Test Launch on May 20</a> 14 comments (edit) [+]
[13:07:43] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN article: Planetary Society's "LightSail" Solar Sail Test Launch on May 20 04(14 comments)
[13:07:54] <Bytram> ======================
[13:08:31] <Bytram> My suggestion would be to have rehash automatically insert a link to the original submission THERE. For example:
[13:09:03] <Bytram> (and continuing to use that same story for this example:)
[13:09:37] <Bytram> <a href="https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsub&subid=7534">Original Submission</a>
[13:09:37] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN Submission by tonyPick: Planetary Society's Lightsail Software Glitch
[13:09:40] <Bytram> ======================
[13:10:09] <Bytram> Simple, less conspicuous, and just as efficacious!
[13:10:17] <Bytram> TenDollarWords++
[13:10:17] <Bender> karma - tendollarwords: 1
[13:10:21] <Bytram> =)
[14:01:47] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #editorial
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[14:01:55] <janrinok> hi guys
[14:05:20] <mrcoolbp> hi janrinok
[14:06:04] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: hi welcome back. Did you have a good time?
[14:06:41] <mrcoolbp> it was crazy
[14:06:45] <mrcoolbp> but yes
[14:06:56] <janrinok> ... I think that's good...?
[14:07:04] <janrinok> ah, crossed msges
[14:07:27] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: janrinok: Bon jour, kimosabes!
[14:07:41] <mrcoolbp> hey bytram!
[14:07:48] <janrinok> hi Bytram
[14:07:55] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: long time no 'see'
[14:07:59] <mrcoolbp> aye
[14:07:59] <Bytram> janrinok: g'day!
[14:08:17] <janrinok> a'noon here but thx
[14:08:22] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: it appears bytram agrees with my assesment of the Original Sub format
[14:08:32] <janrinok> which is?
[14:08:37] <Bytram> life got pretty busy for a stretch there, so I missed out on much of the editorial discussion on 'original submission' stuff
[14:08:38] <mrcoolbp> [09:00] <+Bytram> BTW, if we are to continue to include such a note, I'd advocate for a less 'glaring' version:
[14:08:38] <mrcoolbp> [09:01] <+Bytram> <hr>[<a href="https://....">Original Submission</a> - Ed.]
[14:08:38] <mrcoolbp> [09:01] <+Bytram> that's for the *short* term.
[14:08:56] <mrcoolbp> janrinok I sent you an email to that effect
[14:09:01] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: keep going! =)
[14:09:10] <janrinok> very happy with that, also happy to see it disappear completely
[14:09:24] <janrinok> only just logged on, I'll check my emails
[14:09:38] <mrcoolbp> janrionk: it should appear in related stories, or somewhere in the title bar me thinks
[14:09:50] <Bytram> RelatedStories++
[14:09:51] <Bender> karma - relatedstories: 1
[14:10:34] <Bytram> there, it will be accessible enough for those who wish to find it and yet not so overt as to draw unnecessary attention
[14:10:51] <janrinok> OK, I'll start using it immediately
[14:11:02] <janrinok> just reading the email
[14:11:34] <janrinok> and I'll let you know when I have finished editing the wiki
[14:18:15] <mrcoolbp> cool
[14:40:02] <Bytram> I just remembered the weekend is soon upon us and we'll need to space out stories so as not to deplete the sub queue entirely.
[14:40:41] * Bytram likes the 'janrinok technique' of pushing out as many stories as possible so as to keep sub queue low and encourage submissions
[14:40:44] <Bytram> janrinok++
[14:40:44] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 30
[14:40:48] <Bytram> =)
[14:41:14] * Bytram needs to be at work in 90 minutes. afk for a bit
[14:43:59] <janrinok> well it seems to work
[14:47:40] <mrcoolbp> I'm also working on some work before work = /
[14:49:32] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: if you have 2 minutes to look at the changes at the bottom of the Submission Guide in the wiki, and if you approve, relock the wiki page pse
[14:49:54] <mrcoolbp> sure
[14:52:01] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: is it from "Links" on ?
[14:53:08] <janrinok> yes
[14:53:57] <mrcoolbp> "The contact email address field may be left blank but, if it is used, then the link should be to your user page, a personal email address, or a personal (i.e. not commercial) website." hmm
[14:54:14] <mrcoolbp> "If it is used, then the link should be to..."
[14:54:15] <janrinok> the reason it is necessary is that we can edit links in summaries but NOT in submissions. Now that subs are linked to the front page we have to be very careful
[14:54:29] <mrcoolbp> oh
[14:54:47] <janrinok> if someone puts a goatse in there - it is there for good!
[14:55:09] <mrcoolbp> if someone puts a goatse, it's an auto reject
[14:55:29] <janrinok> well, anything that is unsuitable is now an automatic reject
[14:56:59] <Bytram> hmm, what if we had a drop-down list for rejection reason? sort of like what we have for Moderation? Flamebait, Troll, Biased, etc?
[14:57:27] * Bytram was just thinking out loud and can see some likely problems but as a thought experiment, offer it for discussion.
[14:57:51] <Bytram> also should have a choice 'leave blank' i.e. NO reason given.
[14:58:14] <janrinok> well, several people have mentioned another web page show show each submission with a text box, so that we can provide feedback as to why it was rejected or what needs changing
[14:58:27] <janrinok> showing*
[15:05:23] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: that would be great. When you click "delete" (which should be renamed "reject"), a box is provided with a reason (optional) which would be sent as a User-User (or Admin-User) msg
[15:05:36] <mrcoolbp> in the case of ACs I guess they are S.O.L.
[15:09:39] <janrinok> it avoids having to include a messaging system, and it also enables editing tips to be seen by other submitters
[15:10:13] <janrinok> editing of wiki completed
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[17:37:52] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
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[20:40:35] <takyon> help
[20:40:55] <takyon> anyone have the name of the charges that ulbricht was sentenced to life for
[20:43:44] <CoolHand> takyon: this ars article outlines some charges.. http://arstechnica.com
[20:43:45] <Scruffy> ^ 03Silk Road mastermind Ross Ulbricht sentenced to life in prison | Ars Technica
[20:44:08] <CoolHand> The seven charges include three drug counts: distributing or aiding and abetting the distribution of narcotics, distributing narcotics or aiding and abetting distribution over the Internet, and conspiracy to violate narcotics laws. He was also convicted on a fourth count of conspiracy to run a "continuing criminal enterprise," which involves supervising at least five other people in an organization. in addition, he was convicted on cons
[20:44:12] <takyon> 2 of the charges carried a max sentence of life
[20:44:29] <takyon> I want to know what charge resulted in him getting life
[20:44:32] <takyon> then I can submit
[20:44:39] <CoolHand> that last quote is from http://arstechnica.com
[20:44:40] <Scruffy> ^ 03Ulbricht guilty in Silk Road online drug-trafficking trial | Ars Technica
[20:46:23] <CoolHand> I believe it was the "drug kingpin" charge.. it was min of 20, but they asked for more and judge granted it..per http://gizmodo.com
[20:46:23] <Scruffy> ^ 03Silk Road Kingpin Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison
[20:47:09] <CoolHand> from ny times: Mr. Ulbricht was convicted in February on charges that included engaging in a continuing criminal enterprise and distributing narcotics on the Internet, each of which carried potential life terms. Prosecutors also alleged that Mr. Ulbricht solicited the murders of people he saw as threats to his operation and that at least six deaths were attributable to drugs bought on the site. The government recommended a sentence “s
[20:47:54] <takyon> ok full name of "drug kingpin" charge
[20:48:06] <takyon> not abbreviated, then I'm good
[20:50:41] <CoolHand> here's the indictment, do you have it? http://www.justice.gov
[20:51:08] <takyon> I opened it 10 seconds ago
[20:51:16] <takyon> we both had the same idea ;)
[20:51:28] <takyon> can't find the text kingpin
[20:51:53] <takyon> it's probably criminal enterprise
[20:52:26] <CoolHand> yeah, that's what I'm thinking..
[20:53:21] <takyon> this indictment doesn't even have 7 charges
[20:53:22] <takyon> fuuuu
[20:54:05] <takyon> I'm firing it your http://soylentnews.org
[20:54:06] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN Submission by takyon: BREAKING: Silk Road Founder Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison
[20:54:08] <takyon> ...way
[20:55:52] <CoolHand> well, we just had a story publish less than ten minutes ago.. so we shold probably wait at least an hour?
[20:57:02] <takyon> that's considerably fast compared to the usual breaking news handling
[20:57:13] <takyon> plus I still have that part that says [INSERT CHARGE HERE]
[21:00:28] <CoolHand> how about seven charges including a "drug kingpin" charge?
[21:00:45] <CoolHand> I dont' think we *have* to have the exact charge..
[21:01:20] <CoolHand> throw in a link to the "original indictment" pdf to satisfy legal geeks
[21:03:19] <takyon> this should be easier than it is
[21:03:25] <takyon> I will find the name of that charge
[21:04:29] <takyon> let me look up "engaging in a continuing criminal enterprise" and see if it carries 20-to-life
[21:05:34] <takyon> The Continuing Criminal Enterprise Statute (commonly referred to as CCE Statute or The Kingpin Statute)
[21:05:37] <takyon> I think I found it
[21:05:52] <takyon> I would put
[21:06:25] <takyon> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Criminal_Enterprise">engaging in a continuing criminal enterprise</a> (The Kingpin Statute)
[21:06:26] <Scruffy> ^ 03Wiki: Continuing Criminal Enterprise
[21:07:45] <takyon> it's incredible how all those linked plus NPR, Business Insider, Vice, CNBC, WSJ etc. couldn't be bothered to properly name the charge
[21:10:36] <CoolHand> it is..
[21:10:46] <CoolHand> they're supposed to be *real* journalists... :)
[21:11:28] <CoolHand> https://en.wikipedia.org
[21:11:38] <CoolHand> wikipedia confirms that is the kingpin statute :)
[21:17:34] <CoolHand> ok.. u can 2nd edit it..
[21:19:27] <takyon> removed breaking:
[21:20:09] <takyon> and added quotes around the charge text
[21:20:15] <CoolHand> k
[21:28:31] <takyon> http://soylentnews.org
[21:28:32] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN article: Chemists Discover Key Reaction Mechanism Behind the Sodium-Oxygen Battery 04(11 comments)
[21:28:39] <takyon> yay had a chance to use my subscript button
[21:28:48] <takyon> got to remember to do that for chem formulas
[23:33:32] <takyon> http://www.npr.org
[23:33:33] <Scruffy> ^ 03Anthrax Was Accidentally Sent To 11 States, 2 Countries, Pentagon Now Says : The Two-Way : NPR
[23:33:35] <takyon> anthrax update