#editorial | Logs for 2015-05-24

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[00:27:46] <n1> takyon
[01:43:57] <Bytram> n1: ping.
[01:44:30] <Bytram> pls let me know when you are done editing the multiculturalism story. I went to 2nd edit it and saw that you were working on it.
[01:50:05] <takyon> yes
[01:50:11] <takyon> oh
[01:50:18] <takyon> n1
[01:50:42] <Bytram> takyon: hiya!
[01:52:00] <takyon> hi
[01:52:23] <takyon> so was microsoft "blackmail" so bad?
[01:52:59] <takyon> http://soylentnews.org
[01:53:00] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN comment by [02takyon (881)] (02Score:2)
[01:57:53] <n1> i think i'm done now Bytram
[01:58:17] <takyon> did you need me for something n1
[01:58:36] <n1> was going to ask your opinion on the story
[01:58:50] <n1> so feel free for a 2c or more
[01:58:55] <takyon> multiculture or microsoft
[01:59:06] <n1> multiculture
[01:59:24] <n1> microsoft is done i think, maybe it was an over reaction
[02:00:14] <n1> valid concerns and problems, all resolved, confirmation tomorrow.
[02:00:21] <takyon> the multiculturalism story is very well-written. It's clear that Ethanol-Fueled knows how to wrap his troll submission with professionalism. I've registered that news myself, particularly Merkel's comment. The problem I have is that I didn't see a current event story in it... it's just a multiculturalism discussion out of nowhere
[02:01:04] <n1> i assume janrinok decided to go with a formal apology is because of the much stronger libel laws over in the eu and especially uk.
[02:01:11] <n1> for the microsoft blackmail part
[02:01:34] <n1> i changed it around a bit, if you havnt seen my edits
[02:01:53] <takyon> yeah well a problem is there is no diff
[02:01:57] <takyon> "diff"
[02:02:35] <n1> ?
[02:02:39] <takyon> I've refrained from putting any personal comment into submissions. The closest I've done is add extra linkage, like with gewg_
[02:02:49] <takyon> diff = version history
[02:03:12] <takyon> *like with gewg's Seymour Hersh story, I just added 4-5 more links at the end
[02:03:41] <n1> it's a very hard thing to call
[02:03:57] <Bytram> yuppers, that's for sure!
[02:03:59] <n1> everyone has an opinion and will see bias differently and 'comment' in different lgihts
[02:04:01] <n1> lights*
[02:04:06] <Bytram> if it were easy, they would not pay us so much!
[02:04:51] <n1> comment is for the discussion but you can still build on the source material
[12:39:13] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #editorial
[12:39:13] -!- mode/#editorial [+v janrinok] by SkyNet
[13:15:40] <n1> hi janrinok
[13:32:23] <janrinok> hi n1
[13:32:43] <janrinok> not quite sure why that is underlined
[13:36:02] <n1> how are you today?
[13:37:49] <janrinok> tired but OK i guess, and you?
[13:41:16] <n1> about the same
[13:41:43] <n1> could do with a nap
[13:41:49] <janrinok> done anything exciting since yesterday?
[13:47:12] <n1> sunday lunch with the family
[13:47:17] <n1> so not really
[13:47:20] <janrinok> sounds good
[13:47:21] <janrinok> lol
[13:47:39] <n1> got my grandfather talking about 'terrorists using apps'
[13:48:15] <janrinok> sunday lunch must be really exciting then? Did he start the convo or you?
[13:48:20] <n1> he did
[13:48:32] <n1> i try to not start conversations now
[13:49:21] <n1> but there are sometimes when i need to clarify things
[13:49:48] <janrinok> so he just up and started with 'Terrorists are using apps now..." or something?
[13:49:53] <n1> like the talk of 'terrorists using apps' is just part of the public relations campaign for the 'data protection' bill coming soon
[13:49:56] <n1> or whatever they choose to name it
[13:50:01] <n1> pretty much yeah
[13:50:05] <janrinok> ah, with you now
[13:50:15] <n1> something he'd read in the dailymail
[13:50:27] <n1> about 'terrorists using apps that the government cant see their communications'
[13:51:47] <janrinok> I hate to say it but the govt are going to win on this one. Withour the LibDems to stop things like this the law will just float through
[13:52:08] <n1> oh indeed
[13:52:23] <janrinok> its one of those 'If you are against this law, you are for the terrorist"
[13:52:56] <n1> it doesn't really matter anyway, as they collect all the data anyway
[13:53:01] <n1> they just cant use it how they want to
[13:53:11] <janrinok> I want to start the People's Democratic Republic of Soylent
[13:53:32] <n1> if the government is to be believed
[13:53:45] <n1> we cant keep track of people entering or exiting our borders officially
[13:53:55] <n1> yet we will be able to keep track of every bit of information that goes over the internet
[13:54:06] <janrinok> we could if they pulled their finger out
[13:54:15] <janrinok> borders I mean
[13:54:19] <n1> we could, but they dont officially
[13:54:24] <n1> or they're 'trying to'
[13:54:32] <n1> however when it becomes something far less easy to manage
[13:54:38] <n1> thats just case of putting a law through the courts
[13:54:43] <n1> there's no technical issues to overcome at all
[13:55:10] <n1> they pick and choose when to be incompetent for political convinience
[13:55:40] <janrinok> I have numerous email accounts and several free servers that come with them. They spend some time each day just passing garbage to each other. It costs me nothing and it will give someone something to waste time on
[13:56:03] <n1> like the BoE 'accidentally' emailing the guardian about their 'brexit' plans
[13:56:17] <janrinok> and, although you can't tell, it is not encrypted but it could be
[13:56:23] <n1> purely political non-accident that feeds public suppport for the government being 'serious' about exiting the eu
[13:56:50] <janrinok> they're flying a kite to see how the public react to the inadvertent leak
[13:57:12] <n1> i yawned, as it's the most press release like 'accidental email' ive ever seen
[13:57:18] <n1> with 0 actual informative or insightful information
[13:57:38] <janrinok> if its bad, then they will say it was only one situation under consideration and not likely to ever be used
[13:57:51] <n1> there wasnt a solution offered from what i saw
[13:58:09] <n1> just that the BoE were 'looking at the consequences for the UK economy on an EU exit'
[13:58:19] <n1> which you'd be shocked if they wern't looking into it
[13:58:26] <janrinok> how do you trust someone with all our data when they cannot even operate an email account properly?
[13:58:38] <n1> because there will be process in place!
[13:59:00] <janrinok> don't let it get to you - have that nap and follow it with a good drink
[13:59:25] <n1> when a government breaks its rules, it's "Internal Procedural Error"
[13:59:32] <n1> when a bank commits fraud, it's 'mis-selling'
[14:00:23] <n1> i really need to get getting ready for the festivals
[14:00:28] <n1> i'm on the road from tuesday
[14:00:53] <n1> i will be back to editing the following tuesday
[14:01:04] <janrinok> got you hippy clothes out of the wardrobe, and your wellies for the wet sites?
[14:01:45] <n1> lol
[14:02:29] <n1> always take a functional approach
[14:02:49] <n1> i have some new police surplus waterproofs for this year
[14:03:31] <janrinok> which conveniently have the word 'POLICE' emblazoned on the back?
[14:04:18] <n1> it's got the police blue chequered line on them
[14:04:43] <n1> but the official police badges and stuff were removed for obvious reasons
[14:04:48] <n1> but they do look quite official still lol
[14:05:23] <janrinok> confiscating splifs for later personal use is not fair game
[14:05:35] <n1> hah
[14:06:16] <n1> thats more criminal than impersonating the police...
[14:07:51] * janrinok wouldn't know a splif if he fell over one!
[14:08:46] <n1> doing festivals for so long, you learn lol
[14:09:27] <n1> i know for a lot of the festivals there is a certain 'look the other way' policy by the police and security
[14:09:44] <n1> only if people are selling do they take action
[14:09:58] <janrinok> i'm surprised that no-one noticed your dept on the screwing robots story, or at least have not bothered to comment on it
[14:10:15] <janrinok> perhaps it was too deep for some :)
[14:10:40] <n1> i had to look, i'd forgot what it was lol
[14:10:46] <janrinok> yeah, fair enough at festivals, just keeping everything nice and peaceful is a win
[14:11:22] <n1> sometimes we can all get on just fine
[14:11:34] <n1> it's the drink that stops things being peaceful
[14:14:32] <n1> even then, trouble is not something that needs to be avoided
[14:14:48] <n1> people are generally getting together to enjoy themselves with shared interests
[14:15:18] <n1> trouble mostly comes from 'outside', people who jump the fences to steal
[14:15:58] <janrinok> do you get involved in that at all?
[14:16:53] <n1> ive seen it happen, but i dont get involved in throwing them out
[14:17:05] <n1> but ive seen people jump the fence into the wrong places
[14:17:12] <n1> like jumping the fence into the security camping area
[14:17:14] <n1> really bad idea...
[14:17:55] <janrinok> I can see that being a less than optimum situation
[14:18:18] <n1> actually thinking about it, ties into what people have said about the US police and how they deal with suspects/criminals
[14:18:34] <n1> using a little extra force to get them into the back of the van, to make sure they hit their head
[14:18:46] <n1> then drive around as dangerously as possible to throw them around in the back
[14:19:14] <n1> i never joined those two together, but it is what certain security firms do when removing people from site
[14:19:25] <n1> same as what the police in the US are accused of doing as some 'rough justice'
[14:20:40] <n1> people searching for a small amount of power, will make the most of it when they get the chance to use it
[14:21:35] <n1> over the last few years, being treated as 'one of them' by the rank and file, and even the management
[14:21:38] <n1> has been quite eye opening
[14:24:04] <janrinok> not pleasant but certainly educational
[14:24:45] <n1> thats how i try to look at it
[14:25:06] <n1> but it's hard not to get more cynical the more education i receive
[14:35:17] <janrinok> I've got my bot automatically extracting stories from some web pages now
[14:39:17] <n1> nice
[14:40:16] <janrinok> annoying utf-8 bug though...
[14:42:00] <n1> ah but bugs with utf-8 are traditional!
[14:42:16] <janrinok> in python they're almost compulsory!
[14:43:25] <n1> lol
[14:44:32] <n1> is it just me or has El Reg really gone to shit in recent months?
[14:44:54] <janrinok> there were some comments saying pretty much the same a week or two back
[14:46:59] <n1> took a few moments
[14:47:11] <n1> biggest shareholder is 'skoosh investments'
[14:47:16] <n1> naturally listed in the cayman islands
[14:47:52] <janrinok> what a surprise
[14:49:08] <janrinok> going to have to start cooking soon
[14:49:31] <janrinok> traditional sunday roast chicken with all the trimmings. S's favourite
[14:49:51] <n1> nice
[14:49:54] <n1> i want some!
[14:50:03] <janrinok> you've just had your lunch!
[14:50:03] <n1> i had lamb but could do round 2 with roast chicken :p
[14:50:25] <janrinok> I think that we both like our food, perhaps too much sometimes
[14:51:10] <n1> good food brings people together and keeps us living well
[14:54:46] <janrinok> laters n1
[14:54:53] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[14:57:15] <n1> laters janrinok|afk
[16:29:10] <n1> Bytram
[16:33:03] <n1> im about to head out so if you can top up the queue with a story or two, and i'll do some later this evening
[17:48:14] <Bytram> n1: Oh, Hi! I was just catching up on scrollback... hows things?
[17:48:40] <Bytram> funny you should mention that, I pushed out a couple more stories just a short while ago.
[18:09:34] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[18:09:45] <Bytram> janrinok: hiya!
[18:10:02] <janrinok> hi Bytram how's things?
[18:10:22] <Bytram> okay. gorgeuos day and I can't bring myself to really get started on my day.
[18:10:31] <Bytram> posted some stories and the like
[18:10:41] <janrinok> Yes, I 2nd ed'ed them
[18:11:01] <Bytram> just tried to 'Reply' to a story in the story queue that has not yet gone live... "There was an unknown error in the submission. "
[18:11:03] <Bytram> :/
[18:11:09] <Bytram> janrinok++ # thanks!
[18:11:09] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 28
[18:11:13] <janrinok> getting towards the end of my day here.
[18:11:50] <Bytram> I'm torn between having a bit to eat and taking a nap; skipping a meal and going outside; or just putzing around here.
[18:12:01] <Bytram> janrinok: remember to pace yourself!
[18:12:15] * Bytram notes that coming from me that doesn't carry too much weight!
[18:12:17] <janrinok> I did a bit of gardening earlier, but I've been tired today so I'm taking it easy
[18:12:23] <Bytram> GOOD!
[18:12:43] <janrinok> My bot now extracts stories from some web pages - but very crude
[18:13:20] <janrinok> I can easily extract the title and stories, but still too much noise getting through
[18:13:23] <Bytram> "we do it rought before we figure out how to do it smooth"
[18:13:33] <Bytram> sounds like excellent progress!
[18:14:03] <janrinok> it is relatively easy to clean up by hand, but I'm still trying to devise an algo that will cope with what is left
[18:14:24] <Bytram> hard part is coming up with whitelist and blacklist patterns to select stuff to find and select stuff to omit
[18:14:29] <Bytram> VennDiagram++
[18:14:29] <Bender> karma - venndiagram: 1
[18:14:54] <janrinok> yep - every site is different
[18:15:10] <Bytram> hmm, are you playing directly with the DOM (or some representation of it)?
[18:15:35] <janrinok> and I've also got to work out how to submit them automatically, but that should be relatively easy to do (?!)
[18:15:56] <Bytram> methinks you may need site-specific algos that wrap around lesser filter functions
[18:16:05] <janrinok> yes, convert the DOM to etree which is easily searchable by tag, element or content
[18:16:19] <Bytram> methings the key word is 'relatively' easy.
[18:16:24] <Bytram> nod nod
[18:16:32] <janrinok> extract the <title> and <p> story
[18:16:38] <janrinok> exactly
[18:17:10] <Bytram> so you've got the theory working and now it's a matter of implementation details for each site?
[18:17:28] <janrinok> but rather than rush into writing individual site algos, I'm still looking if there is an easier way, or at least a lot more commonality
[18:17:48] <janrinok> more thinking == less time wasted overall
[18:18:59] <janrinok> It is easy enough to change the processed output into a story, but probably not that much easier than how we do it today. I'm trying to automate as much as I can
[18:19:11] <janrinok> brb 2
[18:19:29] <Bytram> nod nod
[18:19:52] * Bytram just saw about 20 msgs in his inbox and was catching up -- PJ has been VERY busy!
[18:21:55] <Bytram> biab
[18:23:06] <janrinok> PJ?
[18:24:05] <janrinok> I assume you mean paulej72?
[18:34:38] <Bytram> yuppers
[18:35:20] <Bytram> FYI the main page just got the story: ' Ask Soylent: Are Soylent News Editors Overstepping the Mark?'
[18:35:29] * Bytram dons asbestos undis
[18:35:35] <Bytram> s/is/ies/
[18:35:49] <janrinok> I think I'll give a bit to settle down - I'm not sure what I am expecting
[18:36:00] <Bytram> nod nod
[18:36:20] * Bytram goes to take a peek
[18:37:38] <janrinok> if the desired editing is not what we have been doing (i.e. mainly news stories from other sources) then I might decide it is time to retire
[18:38:21] <janrinok> If the community wants it to be more of a free-for-all then it is not going to interest me
[19:32:53] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]