#editorial | Logs for 2015-04-06

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[13:08:46] <CoolHand> janrinok: ping
[13:09:39] <janrinok> CoolHand: hi
[13:10:13] <CoolHand> hey, tomorrow afternoon I'm leaving on a multi-state motorcycle trip through Sunday evening, so probably won't be around much.. maybe a little, but not much
[13:10:34] <CoolHand> I told mrcoolbp yesterday
[13:10:43] <janrinok> ok, thanks for the heads up. I'm in hospital wednesdah pm to thurs lunchtime
[13:10:57] <janrinok> mrcoolbp will be in the hot seat
[13:11:00] <CoolHand> that doesn't sound like much fun
[13:11:09] <janrinok> it has its moments
[13:13:40] <janrinok> oh good - the queues are looking healthy for the moment
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[15:46:47] <CoolHand> anyone here?
[16:01:36] <janrinok> yep if you are quick
[16:01:54] <CoolHand> ah, I screwed up.. I posted in #dev and the channel that shan't be named...
[16:02:01] <CoolHand> I think I need a dev to fix it maybe..
[16:02:26] <CoolHand> I edited the "Thousands Visit Trinity Test Site" story to display at what I thought was later tonight... but I think I brainfarted and put a time something like 24:04 instead of tomorrow at 00:04.. so now I can't find the story anywhere, besides under my name at the bottom.. it's not in story list or submissions list.. I think it might need fixed directly with SQL..
[16:02:28] <janrinok> I've just seen that - I don't know how to fix it ;(
[16:02:38] <CoolHand> ah..
[16:02:46] <CoolHand> ok
[16:02:47] <janrinok> do a search on the word trinity
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[16:03:34] <CoolHand> good idea!
[16:03:38] <CoolHand> I thnk that'll do it..
[16:06:37] <CoolHand> it did indeed work... when I got in it, the date was zero'ed out..
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[16:44:52] * NotSanguine channels Dr. Nick
[16:45:04] <NotSanguine> Hi Everybody!
[16:46:00] <NotSanguine> I see we're low on submissions, so I'm going focus on getting some new ones in the queue.
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[17:48:43] <janrinok> NotSanguine: Actually, for a monday, the queue is looking not too bad. We have enough to cover the next 12-16 hours from the story queue so far, which would take us well into late afternoon UTC. It has been much worse in recent months.
[17:55:23] <NotSanguine> janrinok: Okay. I'll submit the one I'm working on (that'll be a total of four submissions) and then start looking at the queue.
[17:55:59] <janrinok> np - and thanks for your efforts. I was merely pointing out that it could be much worse - and has been recently!
[18:05:04] <CoolHand> janrinok:
[18:05:09] <janrinok> yep
[18:05:30] <NotSanguine> Pinging the editors: I noticed the notation next to the "battery charge" submission about the nature.com link. They seem to be having some sort of issue over there, as the articles I submitted had bad links to nature sites.
[18:05:30] <CoolHand> what's the deal in the MSFT & Oracle story with the word license bieing in square brackets [] every time?
[18:06:14] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: put that in the notes section for the submission I think..
[18:06:52] <janrinok> CoolHand: if you read the source that word does not actually appear - but the article is confusing without it. It is an editorial technique to show that something has been inserted to clarify the source, but is not an actual quote
[18:07:11] <NotSanguine> Coolhand: a good idea. But since it seems that there's a larger issue over at nature.com, I thought I'd let everyone know.
[18:07:50] <CoolHand> janrinok: the word license (licence) is in the source, though..
[18:08:31] <janrinok> CoolHand: it is also used when we have to insert text due to the editing process.
[18:08:32] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: thanks for the heads up :)
[18:08:49] <janrinok> CoolHand: In english english, licence and license can have different meanings
[18:10:12] <CoolHand> janrinok: so, it seems that you our gewg_ substitued the word "licence" with "[license]" for every occurence. I think that's more confusing than leaving the original quote, but what do I know..
[18:10:21] <CoolHand> :)
[18:10:46] <janrinok> the word in there is licence - the eng.gb spelling. But the article submitted has been converted for the US consumer by _gewg. He has changed the word - to make it more understandable to the majority in his view - so it should be in [] to indicate the change
[18:11:22] <CoolHand> alrighty
[18:11:59] <janrinok> I wouldn't have bothered changing it personally, but now that it has been changed, it should be clearly evident that it is not the original.
[18:13:45] <janrinok> the guide says use whatever english dialect the original article is written in for all subsequent edits and display. So I have both en.gb and en.us spell checking which I can select depending on the original story. _gewg hasn't followed this convention.
[18:14:51] <NotSanguine> janrinok, coolhand: IMHO we should quote the article as written by El Reg and get rid of _gewg's changes
[18:15:16] <NotSanguine> Since it is a quotation from the article and we're representing it as such
[18:15:17] <janrinok> feel free to 2nd edit it - but I am doing several things at once at present.
[18:15:56] <janrinok> NotSanguine: We are indicating that it is NOT a quote by the [] technique. That is what it means. But I agree with you.
[18:16:25] <NotSanguine> Coolhand: unless you'd like to do the honors, I'll fix the quotation in the "MSFT/Oracle" article
[18:17:06] <janrinok> don't forget to select en.gb spell checker so that you don't inadvertantly use en.us elsewhere
[18:17:33] <NotSanguine> janrinok: I know. I understood what was going on (that technique is also used if adding a word helps to make the text more readable)
[18:17:42] <janrinok> exactly
[18:18:00] <NotSanguine> Janrinok: I'm just going to cut and paste from el reg, with no modifications
[18:18:15] <janrinok> there are only 2 edits required
[18:18:44] <janrinok> if you go to the original, you have all the extra line spacing to remove too
[18:22:11] <NotSanguine> Coolhand, Janrinok: Is that better?
[18:22:51] <janrinok> no - because you have put all the original line spacing back in. That is not SN style
[18:23:05] <janrinok> see my comment about 3 lines up
[18:23:25] <NotSanguine> janrinok: okay. I'll make it one block of text
[18:24:04] <janrinok> I made it into 2 blocks. The first for businesses, and the second for unis
[18:26:25] <NotSanguine> janrinok, Coolhand: Done. Is that how you guys want it?
[18:26:28] <janrinok> NotSanguine: it is not a big issue, but we get many complaints about failing to format our stories so that they look OK on all devices
[18:27:00] <janrinok> I'm happy
[18:29:16] <janrinok> NotSanguine: CoolHand: just for info, we _should_ change all to but that rule is beginning to slip. There is a JS add-on which will correct the submission automatically, but it is not being used as much as it used to be.
[18:30:02] <janrinok> we are all guilty of this, so I'm not picking on anyone in particular. The testing assumes that is used. The alternative looks crap on some devices
[18:31:39] <NotSanguine> I prefer myself anyway, but I wasn't aware of the display issues with . I'll try to be more careful.
[18:31:53] <janrinok> we should also use <blockquote><div> rather than <div style="quote"> because they format differently, and some internal slashcode expects the former
[18:32:35] <janrinok> it is not helped by our own submission editor inserting the wrong coding into subs!
[18:34:34] <janrinok> NotSanguine: but on the plus side, you are paying good attention during your 2nd ed'ing, and I like that. It is easy to fall into the habit of giving a story a cursory glance and accepting it. We must check links, spelling and abbreviations in every story.
[18:37:43] <NotSanguine> janrinok: I'm with you. posted stories should be as correct as we can make them. Users should be able to argue about content or sources or slant, but they shouldn't even notice the editing.
[18:45:24] <CoolHand> janrinok: thanks for info on br's and p's.. did not know that
[18:45:52] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: the MS/Oracle article looks better to me that way - and less confusing :)
[18:47:40] <janrinok> there are lots of bits and pieces that don't get included in the training package, or get covered by some trainers and not others. If we tried to teach everything you would probably leave long before seeing a real submission!
[18:48:25] <janrinok> Another thing on the list of 'to do' items, now that I might have more time available, is to update the wiki to include all the info that is not yet recorded there.
[18:49:30] <CoolHand> sounds like a good idea :)
[18:53:01] <janrinok> NotSanguine: you've pushed a story out for 19:01 today i.e. in about 10 minutes. Did you mean to?
[18:53:21] <NotSanguine> NO. I saw and changed the time
[18:53:33] <NotSanguine> It's set for 0731 UTC tomorrow now
[18:53:34] <janrinok> ...and it has moved
[18:53:38] <janrinok> lol
[18:54:08] <janrinok> I've never done that - well, not in the last 2 minutes anyway ;)
[18:54:11] <NotSanguine> I saw that I'd failed to change the time as soon as I saved it.
[18:54:52] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: not as bad as the time snafu I made this morning..
[18:55:06] <NotSanguine> So I fixed it. If you didn't have such a good handle on things, you never would have noticed
[18:55:16] <janrinok> as long as you spot it in time. I changed my editing procedure, the last thing I do is update the existing story list - in case someone has added a new story - and then pick the time for the one I am currently editing
[18:55:20] * NotSanguine takes off his "stroke the eic" gloves
[18:55:37] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: I set the time to 24:04 instead of 00:04.. it made the story disappear (zero'ed out the date/time in it)
[18:56:13] <NotSanguine> janrinok: a good precaustion
[18:56:26] <janrinok> Hey, you guys are doing well, but I wasn't sure if there was something exciting in that new story
[18:56:30] <NotSanguine> coolhand: sweet! At least it was still this year
[18:56:47] <janrinok> NotSanguine: no, zeroed to all zeroes
[18:56:56] <NotSanguine> janrinok: you mean the Indian FOSS story?
[18:56:58] <CoolHand> yeah, it was year 0000 :)
[18:57:02] <janrinok> back at the join of BC/AD
[18:57:21] <janrinok> NotSanguine: yes, I thought that you had found a hot news item
[18:57:45] <NotSanguine> coolhand: You should have set the dept to "back-before-the-dawn-of-time" or some such. :)
[18:58:05] <janrinok> he would have done - but he couldn't find it!
[18:58:05] <CoolHand> lol, but no one would have seen it ever..
[18:58:15] <NotSanguine> janrinok: No, it's not "exciting' per se, but interesting nonetheless, IMHO
[18:58:30] <janrinok> CoolHand: sorry mate, the devs spot things like that and then mock us for a few weeks
[18:58:40] <NotSanguine> Should bring out the Richard Stallman haters in force
[18:58:59] <janrinok> just 2nd ed'ing it now
[18:59:32] <NotSanguine> coolhand: At least you didn't have a <slash-break> debacle like I did
[19:00:11] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: what was that?
[19:00:22] <janrinok> do tell
[19:01:00] <NotSanguine> janrinok, as you're 2nd editing, would you change the dept to: "GNU-it-to-me-baby"?
[19:01:09] <janrinok> if you want, of course
[19:01:17] <CoolHand> haha, nice
[19:01:26] <NotSanguine> janrinok: mais ouiu
[19:01:29] <NotSanguine> OUi
[19:01:49] <NotSanguine> as to the <slash-break> bit
[19:02:30] <NotSanguine> I was editing a longish story and wanted to to a "[more after the break]" bit.
[19:02:48] <NotSanguine> So I poked around and found the <slash-break> tag
[19:03:29] <NotSanguine> Which breaks the text, but not in the way you'd expect. It creates real pages in the story, with links to page 1, page 2, etc.
[19:04:08] <janrinok> ..and I thought you were being clever. I was wondering 'how did he do that?'
[19:04:43] <NotSanguine> I worked out how to do it without a <slash-break> (the extended copy text area), but I apparently didn't remove the <slash-break> tag
[19:04:52] <janrinok> I wonder how slashcode copes with that in the database...?
[19:04:52] <NotSanguine> and got complaints from the users about it.
[19:05:11] <janrinok> complaints - really, well I'm shocked
[19:05:11] <CoolHand> yeah, it sounds nifty..
[19:05:19] <NotSanguine> And mocked by mrcoolbp.
[19:05:25] <janrinok> lol
[19:05:50] <NotSanguine> It is cool, but mrcoolbp suggested we test it in dev before using in production.
[19:06:05] <janrinok> a wise suggestion
[19:06:15] <NotSanguine> As there may be other issues it raises
[19:07:03] <janrinok> slashcode is very unforgiving, and users with hand held devices don't like going scrolling up and down for some reason. Having no hand-held devices myself, I don't know why
[19:07:15] <NotSanguine> A good use for it might be when we aggregate multiple submissions with multiple news sources
[19:07:31] <janrinok> well, the merge covers that
[19:08:05] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: the <slash-break> is a html tag? google isn't telling me much about it..
[19:08:07] <janrinok> and there is no limit to the size of extended text - ask NCommander next time he writes his book
[19:08:08] <NotSanguine> True, but if it's really long, it might be nice not to have meters of text on the screen before the comments
[19:08:29] <NotSanguine> Someone might think we invited Bennett Hasselton over
[19:08:38] <janrinok> lol
[19:09:30] <NotSanguine> Coolhand: cf. https://github.com
[19:09:30] <RobotHouse> ^✓ 03rehash/slashtags.pod at master · SoylentNews/rehash · GitHub
[19:10:06] <NotSanguine> Search for <slash-break>
[19:10:17] <janrinok> yes, but that is not meant to be released yet, just sayin'
[19:10:49] <CoolHand> cool, good link
[19:10:50] <janrinok> Rehash is entirely different, and we may have a few problems when it comes in.
[19:11:06] <NotSanguine> Like I said, I was looking for a solution to the "page break" bit and poked around. That's what I found and went with it until I realized that extended copy was the way to go.
[19:11:44] <NotSanguine> That document is linked to in the "Editorial HTML section of the wiki
[19:11:51] <NotSanguine> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[19:11:51] <RobotHouse> ^✓ 03Wiki: EditorialHTML
[19:11:52] <janrinok> however, feel free to log on to dev at any time to play with new ways of doing things. It is just for the devs and our training.
[19:12:39] <janrinok> it is not* just for
[19:12:53] <NotSanguine> janrinok: that's good to know
[19:13:33] <NotSanguine> janrinok: You might want to check out the slashtags doc. There's some interesting stuff there -- entirely for testing purposes of course. :)
[19:14:43] <janrinok> I have read it, but they are still writing new stuff and it is not ready for prime-time as I understand it. I could well be wrong, I might have missed a comment on another chan, for example.
[19:17:54] <NotSanguine> I don't think you are. I was admonished by mrcoolbp not to use it and I thought I'd taken it out of the story.
[19:18:32] <NotSanguine> But When it appeared on the main page, that's when mrcoolbp (quite properly) mocked me. :)
[19:19:35] <janrinok> Mockings used to be much more public - I recall being greeted by name and "Mock" for over an hour
[19:20:08] <janrinok> I think that might have been in the early days on Freenode... I can't seem to find it in the logs
[19:24:58] <NotSanguine> If it will make everyone happy. "Go on. Mock me. Laugh."
[19:25:06] <NotSanguine> https://youtu.be
[19:25:07] <RobotHouse> ^ 03( https://www.youtube.com )
[19:25:27] * janrinok wonders if NotSanguine thought that we _weren't_ laughing...?
[19:25:53] * NotSanguine wanted F. MUrray Abraham to help out.
[19:26:01] <NotSanguine> And Tom Hulce
[19:32:14] <janrinok> Rehash is looking good as the work continues. Still some niggly bugs, but getting there quite quickly really.
[19:39:29] <janrinok> got to go - cu guys tomorrow?
[19:39:59] <NotSanguine> 'night janrinok
[19:40:24] <janrinok> NotSanguine: thanks, and to you. Say G'night to CoolHand too please.
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[19:41:21] <NotSanguine> coolhand: when you get a moment, would you releaser the climate change story. Since I submitted it, it would be inappropriate for me to sign off on it.
[19:44:34] <CoolHand> NotSanguine: done
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[19:57:42] <NotSanguine> coolhand: thanks! janrinok wanted me to say goodnight to you.
[19:57:59] <NotSanguine> Although I'm not sure why, I'm not going to bed. :)
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[21:56:01] * mrcoolbp always says, feel free to break dev
[21:56:14] <mrcoolbp> not sure the devs like me saying that...
[22:08:43] * NotSanguine thinks he'll blame mrcoolbp whenever he breaks dev
[22:09:20] <mrcoolbp> I’ll blame the code : p
[22:09:36] <mrcoolbp> need anything sir?
[22:19:08] <NotSanguine> A nice, cold drink and a naked maid to serve it to me might be nice.
[22:19:16] <NotSanguine> Otherwise, I think I'm good to go.
[22:19:22] <NotSanguine> Is there anything I can do for you?
[22:19:48] * NotSanguine has been in the market for a live-in, naked maid for a while
[22:39:37] <mrcoolbp> it’s my birthday, I’m just gonna relax, so nothing more than you do already = )
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[22:41:54] <paulej72> its his birthday and he'll cry if he wants to, cry if he wants to. You'd cry too if it happened to you.
[22:42:27] <mrcoolbp> you’d!
[22:44:46] <paulej72> :P