#editorial | Logs for 2015-03-18

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[00:13:00] <mrcoolbp> nick: I did 13 hours again
[00:13:02] <mrcoolbp> = (
[00:21:03] <nick> :(
[00:21:14] <nick> everything ok?
[00:21:29] <mrcoolbp> yeah I just work too bloody much
[00:28:43] <mrcoolbp> nick, we need'a tell janrinok to chill if he's feeling burned out, we have some backup editors (myself, martyb, and the n00bies will be ready soon)
[00:31:33] <nick> i think he's doing ok, i told him yesterday i wasn't probably going to be editing today so he did my share too
[00:32:34] <nick> sooner the new eds are ready to go the better
[00:33:13] <nick> Phoenix666 is only going to learn more by doing it now
[00:35:29] <mrcoolbp> nick: yah, too bad we have to wait ~5 days for LamX
[00:36:23] <mrcoolbp> nick, gotta go turn the old brain to "off" position, I'll be around tomorrow tho
[00:36:27] <mrcoolbp> talk to ya laterz
[00:36:46] <nick> take care
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[12:45:06] <CoolHand> still issues with dev?
[12:45:45] * CoolHand is trying to make a submission, and it acts like it takes it, but it doesn't show up in submissions..
[13:00:44] <paulej72> CoolHand, it is broken for the forseeable future
[13:01:16] <CoolHand> paulej72: ok.. thx
[13:05:29] <paulej72> NCommander is working on it. We have dev now running the new code and it is on MySQL Cluster. There is some issue with the new mysql setting that needs fixed.
[13:06:56] <CoolHand> makes sense.. I probably should have searched my scrollback buffer and irc logs before asking that, someone probably said it before
[13:09:33] <paulej72> probably, but I have no issue repeating myself
[13:09:54] <CoolHand> that's good for thick-headed numbskulls like CoolHand.. :)
[13:10:07] <NCommander> I feel like our push to get new editors combined with my urge to rewrite half the code base was badly timed
[13:10:25] <CoolHand> NCommander: yeah, but it's a lot more fun, right?
[13:33:03] -!- Phoenix666 [Phoenix666!~Phoenix66@qbdb-64-293-838-329.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #editorial
[14:07:28] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #editorial
[14:07:28] -!- mode/#editorial [+v janrinok] by SkyNet
[14:07:39] <janrinok> hi guys
[14:24:48] <Phoenix666> hi janrinok!
[14:25:01] <janrinok> hi Phoenix666
[14:25:15] <janrinok> have you had any word from LamX?
[14:26:06] <Phoenix666> no, not yet. i'm still working on the submission pipeline. it's a lot of work. you're a hero for all you've done
[14:26:46] <janrinok> lol - it's not too bad in reasonably moderate doses, but it does get tiring over very long periods
[14:27:45] <Phoenix666> i've been thinking the topic list could use the addition of "Gaming" and "Medicine"
[14:28:51] <janrinok> both good suggestions, raise them with the devs to get their views, or just ask a few others on here to see what feedback you receive
[14:29:15] <Phoenix666> k
[14:29:44] <janrinok> then we will have to beat mrcoolbp to get some icons created ;)
[14:30:13] * janrinok is not sure who is/was doing the artwork
[14:30:24] <Phoenix666> i can do stick figures...
[14:30:55] <janrinok> consider yourself hired on the same salary as you get for being an ed.
[14:32:04] <Phoenix666> whoohoo more karma, baby!
[14:32:31] <janrinok> you will have fame and karma by the bucket load
[14:33:55] <Phoenix666> i'm working on a submission now...question: the link to the original article is to the WSJ. what's better, leave it out, put in the HuffPo article that links to it, or just put in the WSJ link and apologize?
[14:34:43] <janrinok> try to trace links back to the original source. Don't waste hours doing it, but if you have a choice of 2, take the one nearest to the original
[14:36:13] <janrinok> it is better to link to the scientific paper, rather than someone else's interpretation of an article that they read that discussed the scientific paper ;)
[14:37:22] <Phoenix666> sure, only i didn't want to slam users into a paywall
[14:40:15] <janrinok> if the only link you have is a paywall, then that is what you have to go with. Don't forget to flag it as a [Paywall] in your sub, or when it is subsequently edited.
[14:48:53] <Phoenix666> k
[14:50:24] <janrinok> otherwise, as in most things editorial, use your best judgement. I don't think that anyone will criticise for that. They may be able to suggest a better way, but that doesn't mean that your original idea was wrong
[14:58:20] <juggs> janrinok, on NC's story. Missing apostrophe here: "While this covers here and now, I've long liked to have plans 6 months to a year out, and post them for community feedback so everyone is in the loop on both what were***we're*** doing, and why we're doing it."
[14:58:34] <janrinok> k
[14:59:46] <janrinok> juggs: done - that's the problem with a wall of text hehe
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[15:01:08] <juggs> thanks. I can't say anything, I'm always putting in apostrophes where they aren't needed' :D
[15:01:18] <janrinok> lol
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[15:02:44] <juggs> janrinok, leading full stop on this ". Both of these sites are running on rather dated....." para looks unwanted :)
[15:04:15] <juggs> janrinok, 'get' is superfluous here: "and thus allow them to get "hit the ground running" so to speak" :)
[15:04:24] <janrinok> k - I also found another 'so once the site upgrade launches, these teams...' I suspect that the teams ought to do something but currently they only all of the paragraph
[15:04:55] <juggs> Yep, that snetence looks sorta unfinished somehow
[15:04:59] <juggs> sentence*
[15:05:56] <juggs> perhaps maybe end with "these teams would be ready to go". But that seems like a duplication of the hit the ground running part :-/
[15:06:33] <juggs> I shut up now :D
[15:32:25] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: what am I doing now?
[15:36:07] <janrinok> lol - nothing yet. Phoenix666 is thinking up new topics, and I said that you would have to create the icons if they were approved hehe
[15:36:32] <janrinok> but, hi, how's things with you?
[15:37:05] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: ^
[15:39:23] <mrcoolbp> i'm fine wicked tired
[15:39:34] <mrcoolbp> gonna lurk mostly today methinks
[15:39:38] <janrinok> too much work, not enough sleep, or both?
[15:40:21] <janrinok> we don't get dev resolved in the next few days
[15:40:36] <janrinok> NCommander was promising another system for eds to train on if we don't get dev resolved in the next few days
[15:46:03] <mrcoolbp> cool, yeah both
[15:46:39] <janrinok> well take it easy (and that's me saying that!)
[16:12:11] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[16:14:35] <janrinok|afk> Phoenix666: are you still around. Try logging on to dev, it seems to be working for me
[16:18:03] <janrinok|afk> mrcoolbp: if you see any of the trainee eds, can you please suggest they log on to dev. It seems to be working OK for me. I'll be afk for a few hours.
[16:18:19] <mrcoolbp> sure
[16:18:34] <janrinok|afk> thx
[17:12:37] <Phoenix666> janrinok, mrcoolbp: it seems to be taking now as it should
[17:13:00] <mrcoolbp> nice
[17:14:26] <mrcoolbp> let me know if you have any questions
[17:18:07] <Phoenix666> do you know what time of day LamX is around to talk greenlighting me as an editor? i'm not in a rush, and am happy to putter along as a submitter, but i haven't seen him on the channel yet, coming on morning and evening EST as i have
[17:28:07] <mrcoolbp> I think he said he had a very busy week, so a few days at least = /
[17:28:40] <mrcoolbp> we have a few people awaiting approval
[17:34:39] <Phoenix666> np
[18:24:47] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666 let's take a look at what you got
[18:24:59] <Phoenix666> ok
[18:25:10] <Phoenix666> i have to run in 5 mins though to get my kids
[18:25:18] <Phoenix666> should i check back in an hr?
[18:25:33] <Phoenix666> or can we go through in a couple mins?
[18:25:57] <mrcoolbp> no that's fine, just tell me which ones to check out
[18:26:12] <mrcoolbp> [1] Linus blocks... and [4] Oracle Cloud... ?
[18:26:39] <Phoenix666> yeah i only did the linus one to make sure dev was working correctly. i didn't actually "edit" that one
[18:27:52] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: okay which ones did you acutally "edit" ?
[18:28:03] * mrcoolbp notes 4 have your name on 'em
[18:28:23] * mrcoolbp shuffles janrinok's test story lower
[18:29:23] <Phoenix666> ebola and the oracle cloud. the anti-robot rally one was supposed to be a submission, but it went straight to story (i think that's how it worked out)
[18:30:38] <Phoenix666> mrcoolbp: sorry to run out, but i gotta go herd the munchikins. i'll be back around in an hour
[18:30:54] <mrcoolbp> perfect, have fun hearding
[18:32:07] * mrcoolbp will leave constructive criticisms for when you return:
[18:32:17] <mrcoolbp> -Ebola Story-
[18:37:26] <mrcoolbp> Title should read: "Ebola Spreading in Central Africa see: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[18:37:26] <NetCraft> " 03Wiki: Story Style
[18:54:08] <Phoenix666> ok
[18:56:20] <mrcoolbp> I got a full-page ad on clicking the first link
[18:56:31] <mrcoolbp> I would warn about that or try to find another link
[18:57:30] <mrcoolbp> I also strongly prefer "inline links" rather then expanded full URLS (there are exceptions, especially if the link is "elegant")
[18:59:29] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[18:59:35] <mrcoolbp> I like the fact that we you quoted from the WHO, that is a "good" source
[19:00:01] <mrcoolbp> however, that quote is a little broken. The first line includes a title of a heading within that "article"
[19:00:06] <mrcoolbp> let me explain
[19:00:14] <mrcoolbp> Heading: Symptoms of Ebola virus disease
[19:00:26] <mrcoolbp> text: The incubation period, that is, the time interv....
[19:00:45] <mrcoolbp> which reads weird: "Symptoms of Ebola virus disease The incubation period, that is, the time interval fr..."
[19:02:07] <mrcoolbp> also, janrinok could correct me here, but I don't think there's a need for the second blockquote just because you use quotes from different parts of the page. Not sure if you even need a "..." but I know that is used sometimes to denote a truncation of a quote
[19:02:56] <Phoenix666> hmm
[19:03:01] <mrcoolbp> Furthermore, this summary is not much of a summary. This is my least favorite type of "summary" as it is simply quotes, there is nothing orignal in it
[19:03:15] <mrcoolbp> not a huge dig at you, mind, that is the submitter's fault
[19:03:28] <Phoenix666> these two examples might not be the best because I'm pretty sure I did inline quotes originally
[19:03:39] <mrcoolbp> however, even an original sentence or two that we cook up after reading the articles goes a long way (IMO)
[19:03:43] <Phoenix666> some things didn't take, like the Dept designation wasn't preserved
[19:03:58] <Phoenix666> that might have been the dev issues
[19:04:02] <mrcoolbp> also the dept. should be all lowercase
[19:04:05] <mrcoolbp> = )
[19:04:17] <Phoenix666> perhaps better might be the submissions i've done yesterday and today
[19:04:41] <Phoenix666> are those more in line with the editorial style & intent?
[19:04:58] <Phoenix666> (since those were on the production site)
[19:04:59] <janrinok> Phoenix666: yes
[19:05:43] <janrinok> but the trick is changing someone else's submission into something that is going to go out on the front page
[19:05:51] <Phoenix666> i've been trying to balance quotes from articles with conversation starters
[19:05:52] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: shame if your edits were lost in our DEVing, and don't take it personally, I'm *trying* to tear your work apart = )
[19:06:06] <Phoenix666> no, they're good critiques
[19:06:14] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: I focus more on "informing" rather then starting discussion
[19:06:27] <Phoenix666> it's only that i'm sure i had fixed at least some of the issues
[19:06:32] <mrcoolbp> our goal is not to stir up discussion, that should follow naturally (again IMO)
[19:06:52] <mrcoolbp> my goal as an editor (and yes I don't do it THAT much here) is to inform
[19:07:01] <Phoenix666> well, i don't mean in the sense of instigating a flamewar
[19:07:05] <mrcoolbp> = )
[19:07:09] <Phoenix666> only in thought starters
[19:07:40] <Phoenix666> i take fred friendly's "Truth on Trial" series as my guide
[19:08:10] <mrcoolbp> our community is pretty smart, gears are already turning. They are the hammer in search of the nail, and every story is viewed from a commenter's perspective "what can I say about this?"
[19:09:24] <mrcoolbp> I've never felt a need to write "so what do you think?" or similar at the end of a story
[19:09:51] <juggs> janrinok, just spotted another missing word in NC's story. Here "Define and finalize plans user-created nexuses" should probably be "Define and finalize plans for user-created nexuses
[19:10:08] <janrinok> looking
[19:11:26] <juggs> it's one of the bullets in the 15.06 section
[19:11:50] <janrinok> done juggs, thx
[19:12:28] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: am I making any sense or just rambling? I'm pretty exhausted today
[19:13:24] <Phoenix666> mrcoolbp: you're making sense, of course. this is the Truth on Trial series i was referring to, if you've never seen it. it's well worth watching: https://www.youtube.com
[19:13:25] <NetCraft> ^ 03The Constitution That Delicate Balance 08 National Security and Freedom of the Press - YouTube
[19:14:47] <Phoenix666> mrcoolbp: where are you, am i pestering you in the middle of the night where you are?
[19:15:10] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666 Ma, USA, it's 3:15pm = )
[19:15:20] <janrinok> Phoenix666: no, he's just tired and overworked
[19:16:20] <mrcoolbp> like this guy ^
[19:16:42] <Phoenix666> yeah, and 18 ft of snow this winter can't have helped
[19:17:09] <Phoenix666> right?
[19:18:36] <mrcoolbp> not at all
[19:18:43] <juggs> thank you janrinok - looking good
[19:18:50] <mrcoolbp> neither do 70-hour work weeks = (
[19:19:19] <Phoenix666> the queue of practice submissions on dev has dwindled to test submissions. is it possible to import a tranche of submissions from production to practice on?
[19:19:32] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: do you want a break and for me to step in here?
[19:19:34] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: I would recommend editing a decent submission that's not your own submission for pratice. We can just grab one for you
[19:19:49] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: I'm having fun
[19:19:52] <Phoenix666> cool
[19:19:54] <janrinok> k, np
[19:20:10] <juggs> should have used NC's :D Trial by fire :)
[19:20:12] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: grab a good submission from prod and resubmit to dev for him for me?
[19:20:18] <janrinok> I'll make some subs - give me 2 minutes
[19:21:07] <juggs> how's things mrcoolbp? Still working stupid hours I see :(
[19:21:22] <mrcoolbp> aye, not too bad sir
[19:21:49] <mrcoolbp> juggs: should be starting the CPA stuff soon, only waiting on matt to return from Japan
[19:23:07] <juggs> good stuff - as long as the stock stuff is squared away hopefully it should be pretty smooth sailing - can't think we're doing anything at all out of the ordinary.
[19:24:02] <mrcoolbp> aye, just grunt work then
[19:25:28] <juggs> true, once the books are setup it's just entering receipts / spends and handing it off to the cpa when it's time for filing - along with a massive cheque no doubt :D
[19:26:53] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: Phoenix666: A story about the PirateBay being unblocked is in the sublist on dev
[19:27:10] <Phoenix666> ok, i'm on it
[19:27:52] <janrinok> hang about - the submission button is not working again!
[19:28:05] <Phoenix666> :)
[19:28:31] -!- nick [nick!~nick@nxe0-yuxm3-4-2-lyhe33.28-9.cable.virginm.net] has joined #editorial
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[19:29:30] nick is now known as SoyGuest70700
[19:34:35] <janrinok> Phoenix666: mrcoolbp: look in the Stories list - not sub list - for the story about TPB being unblocked. I cannot get a raw submission in - imagine that you are starting from scratch
[19:35:55] <janrinok> hi SoyGuest70700 nick
[19:36:12] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: submitter is SN User "Fluffeh"
[19:40:08] <Phoenix666> hmm, dev kicked me out in the middle like it did yesterday
[19:40:39] <janrinok> yes the system has just rebooted or something. That's why nick's connection was reset I think
[19:40:43] <Phoenix666> can't log in...
[19:41:09] <janrinok> I can, try again now
[19:42:46] <janrinok> Any success Phoenix666 ?
[19:44:10] <Phoenix666> i can get in, re-doing the edit...
[19:45:51] <janrinok> Phoenix666: see if you can remember how to change the author's name too :)
[19:48:50] <Phoenix666> is the policy to use [sic] on direct quotes when they contain grammatical or punctuation errors, or to fix them?
[19:49:54] <mrcoolbp> that or use [corrected text] within the quote
[19:49:57] <mrcoolbp> depends on the case
[19:50:55] <mrcoolbp> [sic] is usually used when preserving the "mistake" is important to the reader, I find correcting the text and placing brakets around the correction is generally more helpful
[19:51:10] <mrcoolbp> brakets can be used to expand on or clarify a quote as well
[19:52:25] <mrcoolbp> example: original quote: "He researched this for months searching for it" , corrected quote "[Dr. Stranglove] reserached this for months searching for [the cure]"
[19:52:34] <mrcoolbp> brackets*
[19:53:01] <mrcoolbp> researched*, you get the idea though = )
[19:56:18] <Phoenix666> OK, i changed the punctuation in the quotation to be clearer. i didn't add any further summary because it seemed to have enough meat for the reader to get the idea
[19:58:43] <mrcoolbp> Quoting/punctuation note: punctuation should follow the material in how it's presented in our summary. Example: original material: "He got the job, but he went on do do other things" in the summary we may use only the first part "He got the job" so a period would be used instead of the comma: "He got the job."
[19:59:39] <mrcoolbp> i.e. you wouldn't want to have a quote end with a comma
[20:02:26] <Phoenix666> right, but "'He got the job,' he said." still ends the quotation with a comma because the speaker is identified. right?
[20:03:53] <Phoenix666> sorry, afk 30
[20:05:56] <mrcoolbp> That is correct, the idea is to use correct punctuation as the text appears to the reader, in your example, the sentence has correct punctuation so it is also "correct".
[20:06:55] <mrcoolbp> I meant you wouldn't want for example: <blockquote>He got the job,</blockquote>
[20:07:10] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: new story for Phoenix666 in the _story_ list - Crowdsourcing the Transcription of CIA Documents
[20:08:03] <mrcoolbp> tldr; you can modify punctuation to follow destination material without denoting the fact that you modified it (I brought it up because we use the [brackets] to denote we are modifying quoted material)
[20:25:03] <janrinok> time for me to go - hope to see you all tomorrow :)
[20:25:46] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: byeeee]
[21:52:41] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: I'll be off for the day too soon
[22:32:46] <Phoenix666> ok, sorry i missed you--munchikin juggling
[22:37:59] <mrcoolbp> More granularly: I have to step out in a few for ~1hr, then back for an hour or so before I'm gone for the night
[22:38:10] <mrcoolbp> no worries