#editorial | Logs for 2015-03-08

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[15:38:35] <nick> hey janrinok & Bytram
[15:38:52] <nick> sorry for ignoring you earlier, just got caught up with responding to the anti-gewg AC
[15:40:30] <janrinok> oh, I haven't seen that one, which thread/story?
[15:40:45] <nick> http://soylentnews.org
[15:40:45] <AdmiralNachoSupreme> ^ 03SN comment by Anonymous Coward
[15:40:51] <janrinok> don't answer - found it
[15:42:58] * nick sigh
[15:44:55] <janrinok> same each weekend now, and has been for some weeks.
[15:45:22] <nick> ive obviously missed them previously
[15:45:28] <nick> but im seeing where you're coming from now with that
[15:46:39] <janrinok> I'm not sure if they are trolls who just appear for the weekend, or regulars who have a spliff or a few beers too many and just fancy sounding off. I don't think that 7 stories pending is a lot - I'd much rather have 17 or 27 to work from
[15:46:58] <nick> well i remember when we started
[15:47:11] <nick> being worried when the queue dropped below 20
[15:47:22] <nick> now i'm happy to see it above 10.
[15:47:42] <janrinok> I know that AC is popular because some of our more prominent members of the community can say what they like without being penalised for it.
[15:48:10] <nick> i have commented as AC a few times, although not for a while now
[15:48:30] <janrinok> I've done it once - by mistake!
[15:48:55] <nick> to me it's part of the deal, if people want transparency and honesty, then they shall get it.
[15:48:58] * janrinok marks it as another of his many mistakes
[15:49:06] <nick> including getting to hear me ramble about shit they dont like
[15:49:41] <janrinok> you make a good point about the size of the queue 12 months ago - I might use that in a future reply
[15:50:01] <nick> i wish i'd thought about it when making that reply
[15:50:13] <nick> and judging from that comment thread
[15:50:17] <nick> they really dont get the position we're in
[15:51:09] <janrinok> I'll be interested in the comment to your journal piece - only I hope they don't expect us to find the stories too. That would be the straw that breaks this particular camel's back. I'd be gone at that point. I'm doing far more than the doc wants me too now.
[15:51:17] <janrinok> comments*
[15:51:42] <nick> if there is any more response to it, i wanted to journal it to get a wider audience for my ponderings
[15:51:50] <nick> and also to see how many people look at the journals
[15:52:01] <janrinok> well, we do!
[15:52:29] <nick> my main logic is sometimes it would be easier when breaking news hits, to run it if one of us is around
[15:52:41] <nick> rather than what ive had to do before is put links in #Soylent and nudge people to submit it
[15:52:47] <nick> which is just a bit backwards
[15:53:56] <janrinok> Oh, I've released Breaking News on my own before - the Ukrainian ac shoot down and other stories. But I wouldn't want it to become a normal method of release. Imagine if gewg_ or Hairyfeet became an editor....
[15:54:12] <nick> oh agreed
[15:54:35] <nick> it's a subtle difference i'm actually pondering
[15:55:04] <nick> we release breaking news ourselves on the implied discretionary authority
[15:55:06] <janrinok> I fear that it will be missed on most who comment.
[15:55:17] <nick> i think it would be nice to be a little more explicity
[15:55:19] <nick> -y
[15:55:47] <nick> i kind of expected on a couple that i have done, breaking news, that people would complain - no one even mentioned it didn't have a "[user] writes:"
[15:56:08] <janrinok> I always go back to released stories that have already hit the front page if they haven't had a second look - just not as urgently as I would for those still waiting to go.
[15:56:18] <Bytram> same here
[15:56:36] <janrinok> I like my display to be all green when I leave after an editing session
[15:56:43] <nick> yup
[15:56:54] <janrinok> other than stories I've just put in the queue of course
[15:56:57] * Bytram has been thinking about how we can make it easier for the community to submit stories by taking advantage of the #rss-bot feed
[15:57:12] <janrinok> I'm all ears
[15:57:20] <nick> Bytram, it's pretty damn easy right now
[15:57:35] <nick> you can ~submit via one of the bots i believe
[15:57:39] <Bytram> as far as I can figure out, it would require javascript, and prolly some [i]frames.
[15:57:49] <Bytram> so, here's the *concept*
[15:57:54] <nick> which literally means you just need to ~submit url on IRC
[15:58:01] <nick> and yet some people dont even want to do thqat
[15:58:04] <nick> that*
[15:58:08] <janrinok> Yes, but the submission just gives me a link and a 1 line description. I have to then write the story around that...
[15:58:12] <nick> when they are happy to post links to stories, to share to IRC
[15:58:18] <nick> but not to the whole site
[15:58:32] <nick> janrinok, better than nothing
[15:58:35] <nick> is my only logic with that
[15:58:55] * nick is now waiting for Bytram's concept which he rudely interrupted
[15:59:21] <janrinok> I was going to suggest an additional different page on the site, which show a rolling list of whatever is on rss-bot. New at the top and old falling off the bottom
[15:59:33] <Bytram> have a top full-width frame with two half-width sub-frames below it. Top frame would contain the rss-bot feed, lower lefthand pane would be the last-clicked link's output, and the bottom right hand-frame would contain the in-progress story submission
[15:59:47] <Bytram> janrinok: I *like* that.
[16:00:25] <janrinok> thx - but I would still prefer a bit of effort from the community changing the link into a story
[16:00:43] <nick> if anyone feels like taking a crack at responding to the AC who just replied to my comment
[16:00:45] <nick> would be appreciated
[16:01:09] <janrinok> I'll give it a look, but I have to go soon.
[16:01:18] <Bytram> what I was thinking is that the top pane would have five columns in a table, one each for: date/time stamp, nick, source's name (e.g. MIT Review), URL to story, and then the headline
[16:02:11] <Bytram> the improvement would be to be able to *filter* the rss-bot list to those records: [include|exclude] records that [do|do not] match [pattern]
[16:03:25] <Bytram> for example, exclude all hackernews articles, then select to hide all recs that do not contain FREAK
[16:03:44] <Bytram> now I will have a few sources that cover a topic,
[16:04:07] <Bytram> I could then click on a link in one of them, and see the story rendered in the lower-left pane
[16:04:15] <janrinok> nick: so many AC comments - which one _specifically_ were you referring to :)
[16:04:28] <Bytram> select stuff from it and paste to the lower right-hand pane story submission.
[16:04:39] <Bytram> repeat with other sources to flesh out the story.
[16:05:27] <nick> janrinok, the one who replied to my comment
[16:05:43] <janrinok> Bytram: I like the idea but I'm concerned that we are going to be inundated with almost raw links and be expected to produce a story from each. With the small number of active editorial staff that would be a no-go
[16:05:49] <janrinok> nick: k
[16:05:54] <Bytram> Oh, and would need a refresh button (to get newer rss-bot entries) and a clear button (to remove / reset the selectors)
[16:06:20] <nick> i like the idea, but also agree with janrinok
[16:06:30] <Bytram> the idea is that instead of *just* the links, it would be easy to bring up the linked-story text and cut-n-paste to the submission pane
[16:07:39] <Bytram> so, we'd make it easier to get the link(s) *and* some context from each.
[16:08:07] <nick> it has potential
[16:08:28] <nick> would need to be seen in action i think, to really get a feel for how people would use it
[16:08:35] <nick> or if people would abuse it
[16:08:39] <Bytram> there may be better ways to populate the lists... maybe have the slashcode pull a feed and write it to a table in the DB; then it's just a matter of SQL SELECT statements to zero in on the suhbmission.
[16:10:05] <Bytram> anchor elements from RSS would just need to have a 'target=' attribute added to make it appear in one of the 'pane's
[16:10:48] <Bytram> there's prolly a better way to do it with XMlHttpRequest or somesuch, but that's beyond my skill level.
[16:10:58] <Bytram> (if one does not go the DB route)
[16:12:29] <nick> Bytram, do you have a minute to spare?
[16:12:55] <Bytram> sure
[16:35:42] <janrinok> nick: my reply has gone out - I might get flamed for that one!
[16:36:19] <nick> thanks :) couple other people have replied also, so im feeling better
[16:39:19] <Bytram> linky?
[16:41:38] <nick> http://soylentnews.org
[16:41:38] <AdmiralNachoSupreme> ^ 03SN comment by janrinok (52)
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[16:45:57] <nick> nice comment janrinok
[16:46:00] <nick> thanks for taking the time
[16:46:39] <nick> i like the comment suggesting this AC is actually gewgs schizophrenic alternate personality
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[16:51:38] <Bytram> sry, was in another convo... thanks for the link!
[16:54:27] <janrinok> lol - well I feel better for having said it. I wonder if anyone will turn up for training tomorrow?
[16:55:01] <nick> i'm guessing....
[16:55:02] <nick> no.
[16:56:28] <Bytram> janrinok: +1 Inciteful! =)
[16:56:55] <nick> will admit, was feeling burned out with it all last night. but a few quality comments today has made me feel more positive.
[16:57:36] * Bytram has been off for a bit but is feeling somewhat recharged lately... problem is that whenever I look at the story queue, 'tis already filled.
[16:57:38] <Bytram> =)
[16:58:04] <nick> for the last week or so, we've been doing pretty good
[16:58:17] <nick> mainly because we're not expecting anyone else to jump in, so we're having to keep the queue full as much as possible
[16:59:20] <Bytram> I've seen that.
[16:59:41] <nick> we're putting twice as many stories into the queue as we would have previously (or longer gaps)
[16:59:42] <Bytram> just sayin there's times when I coulda taken on some of the load but twas already taken care of
[16:59:59] <nick> tis the way it goes sadly
[17:00:17] <nick> like the AC saying about stories in the queue we could have run instead of the gewg_ story
[17:00:33] <nick> well, those submissions wern't there when i did editing just before bed last night.
[17:00:38] * Bytram is trying to find the story that J replied to
[17:00:46] <Bytram> ah, fgound it
[17:00:53] <Bytram> http://soylentnews.org
[17:00:53] <AdmiralNachoSupreme> ^* 03SN comment by Anonymous Coward
[17:02:41] <Bytram> according to the IPID (hash of the user's IP addr), it *appears* this comment was posted by the same person who had submitted the 'Michael Brown' story that has been held in the queue.
[17:03:32] * Bytram wonders if someone can make an 'aye' or 'nay' decision at this point? use it or delete it and either way be done with it?
[17:03:56] <Bytram> oh, wait... I'm confuising it with another story; never mind
[17:04:22] <janrinok> sry guys - I'm dashing back and forth between kitchen, S and my computer.
[17:04:36] <Bytram> janrinok: no prob -- be careful and don't trip!
[17:04:37] <nick> as i said in my comment, the michael brown discussion is an interesting one to have and i'm looking forward to it
[17:04:53] <nick> it's not been up yet because it's too good for the weekend.
[17:05:03] <Bytram> nod nod
[17:05:04] <janrinok> Bytram: don't apologise for your contribution - you make loads of difference here and you know it.
[17:06:02] <Bytram> appreciated. I've had troubles in the past owning up to when I made a mistake. NC set a grand example, and now when I make a mistake, I try to own it.
[17:06:28] <nick> it's just worth doing all around
[17:06:54] <nick> when i make a mistake with editing, the right thing to do is own up to it
[17:07:02] <nick> and i think a lot of people dont expect it when it happens
[17:07:10] <nick> "you're right, i fucked up, sorry about that."
[17:08:19] <nick> i dont think i've seen another news site where the writers/editors put their hands up to mistakes and oversights like we do
[17:08:54] <Bytram> yeah, I practice here, and it seems to pop up in the 'real world', too -- how about *that*?!! =)
[17:09:07] <nick> lol
[17:09:25] * Bytram means that I am getting better at owning my stuff in person, thanks to the 'practice' here on this site.
[17:09:46] <Bytram> I'd like to think that I've grown a lot thanks to this site.
[17:10:08] <Bytram> unfortunately, not much growth in height. ;)
[17:10:12] <nick> hah
[17:10:22] <Bytram> ok, gtg, baiab
[17:10:27] <nick> take care Bytram
[17:10:29] <Bytram> back-in-a-bit.
[17:10:33] <nick> a pleasure as always
[17:10:37] <Bytram> like wise
[18:21:58] <nick> be back from my other location, in an hour or two
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[18:22:12] <janrinok> ok nick
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[19:56:39] <n1> and im back
[20:01:36] <janrinok> wb nick
[20:02:14] <janrinok> I think I'm going down with a sore throat and a bit of a temperature - bugger
[20:02:23] <n1> :(
[20:02:26] <n1> sorry to hear that
[20:03:26] <janrinok> I'll have to go soon but, before I go, if you are getting a bit down with the site, take a break. You health and then your job come first. We'll manage - although we will do better with you here - but we'll manage nonetheless
[20:04:14] <n1> thanks... i'm all good, it's just more frustrating than usual at the moment it seems
[20:04:41] <janrinok> I had the same problem last weekend - the children came out and spoilt 2 or 3 good stories
[20:05:18] <n1> mhm i recall
[20:05:50] <janrinok> but if necessary I can post 8 stories a day and tell them all to wait
[20:06:05] <n1> sometimes it's easy to get so lost in the negative comments and ignore the insightful and interesting discussion that also happened
[20:06:22] <janrinok> I know exactly what you mean and how you feel
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