#editorial | Logs for 2015-02-18

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[00:27:29] <paulej72> I deployed the tid fix on prod and fixed the NSA2 article that we broke the link again
[00:28:07] <n1> what does the tid actually do
[00:28:45] <paulej72> topic id. it is for stories that have multiple ones so you can link to a specific one
[00:29:25] <n1> last edit i removed it entirely and the link worked without it, as i would have expected
[00:31:56] <n1> tid makes sense for filtering stories, but i dont see why it's needed when linking to a specific one
[00:33:01] <paulej72> probably something important at one time, but not in our specific version
[00:34:02] <n1> so if when linking an earlier story i just leave it out, it's not going to cause any problems? or will it now automatically append a tid after this fix?
[00:37:51] <paulej72> we currently truned off the automatic tid feature. We need to debug the routein that does it so it will be back in the future.
[00:39:12] <paulej72> well I am going to relax. I have a moderate headache right now and it is a bit hard to concnetrate.
[00:39:43] <n1> take it easy, ive been trying to lose a headache all day
[00:39:48] <n1> go chill
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[14:49:15] <n1> that uber for jets must be the least popular hugh pickens story so far
[14:51:51] <janrinok> #back
[14:51:56] <n1> heh
[14:52:09] <n1> kind of surprised me really, thought that would have generated some interest
[14:53:03] <janrinok> me too - I reckon we get a different reading crowd over Fri-Sun than the rest of the time. Different stories appeal more depending on which day of the week they are published
[14:53:41] <n1> well, during the week it does seem to be mostly people at work commenting
[14:53:53] <n1> then have the weekend away from the computer
[14:54:13] <janrinok> And the 'muricans are only just coming online for today so perhaps that story will pick up
[14:54:14] <n1> maybe the community is really rich and are keeping quiet about their private jets
[14:55:05] <janrinok> I stick with electronic toys and leave the jets for others
[14:56:06] <n1> i have been thinking about things more within my reach, i'd like a fishing boat
[14:57:02] <janrinok> you'd get along well with TMB then - he enjoys his fishing.
[14:57:42] <n1> i actually go fishing very rarely, but i do enjoy it. i love being on the water though
[14:58:31] <n1> and getting a small fishing boat seems like a good way of escaping the suburbs locally
[14:59:13] <janrinok> Good sea fishing here with several rivers also providing plenty of opportunity in the area
[14:59:39] <n1> sounds great, far better than the thames no doubt
[15:00:12] <janrinok> I was just editing that story about 'Drone Sales' when I realised that the source date was 2011. Marked it accordingly
[15:00:45] <janrinok> yes, cleaner than the Thames too, although I gather things have much improved in recent years
[15:01:05] <n1> no doubt improved in the same way the congestion charge improved traffic in central london
[15:01:11] <janrinok> lol
[15:01:31] <janrinok> cynical old bugger somedays....
[15:01:44] <n1> not the thames, but last year going down to the coast and stopping off at the beach as it was close
[15:01:49] <n1> was gross
[15:02:02] <n1> horrible smell and brown water
[15:02:22] <n1> on the english/french channel
[15:03:13] <janrinok> and I certainly wouldn't want to eat the fish. When I lived in Gibraltar, the locals used to flock to the sewage outlet to do their fishing because it was easy-peasy. They seemed surprised when I pointed out what the fish were eating...
[15:03:42] <n1> :/
[15:03:45] <n1> nasty
[15:07:22] <n1> life in gibraltar any good?
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[15:09:13] <janrinok> was OK for a few years, but I personally wouldn't want to live there permanantly. Others do, of course, and they seem to like it.
[15:09:34] <n1> an 'experience' ?
[15:11:04] <janrinok> Oh, it wasn't too bad. Bit of a bummer at those times that Spain choses to close the border for a few days, and it is too hot for S. Too much heat and she becomes bed-bound
[15:11:47] <paulej72> problem with Gibraltar is you have to cross the runway of the airport to get to the other side
[15:12:14] <n1> can't really blame the spainish for it being a bit of a sore point
[15:12:23] <janrinok> yep but, to be honest, that doesn't affect traffic too much unless you pick a bad time
[15:13:04] <janrinok> they _gave_ it to the UK by treaty - I don't subscribe to the view that they can just demand it back.
[15:13:19] <n1> i dont disagree
[15:13:27] <n1> but did 'they' have popular support?
[15:13:56] <janrinok> does any government? Particularly several hundred years after the event...
[15:13:57] <paulej72> they really need to build that super bridge across the med there. that would make the traffice pick up
[15:14:58] <n1> we have to suffer the consequences of the actions of the people that came hundreds of years before us, and were doing things for their own interest
[15:15:06] <n1> not of their nations or whatever
[15:15:08] <janrinok> Spain and Gib have enough problems with smugglers and illegal immigrants now - I don't think that they are over enthusiastic to that idea of a bridge
[15:15:17] <paulej72> a mugee _gives_ his money to a mugger in the same way Spain gave Gibraltar
[15:15:39] <janrinok> well, you can say that about any war going back to the dawn of civilisation
[15:15:48] <n1> and thats the point im generally making
[15:15:59] <n1> we didnt just go well "every agreement from x date is set in stone never to be changed"
[15:16:14] <n1> because things do change, pressures, economics and political climate changes
[15:16:27] <n1> you dont just let things go, because thats how its always been, if you view it as wrong
[15:16:32] <janrinok> no, but you equally can't say that any agreement before 2015 is null and void
[15:16:42] <n1> but that doesnt mean other people arnt entitled to their own view of it being right
[15:16:44] <paulej72> no we need to go back to the borders that were their at the dawn of civilization
[15:17:03] <paulej72> anything else would not be fair
[15:17:11] <janrinok> lol
[15:17:31] <n1> "that king you had a revolution against and executed, well he signed this bit of paper on your behalf, so tough shit."
[15:17:45] <janrinok> I like the idea, but I don't think it a realistic dream
[15:18:05] <n1> well, i generally find the people i speak to, across all the world are far more relatable than centuries of cultural divide would have us believe
[15:19:09] <n1> as peasants, we all get along quite well generally i feel.
[15:20:06] <janrinok> the locals have been asked for their views - and have left us in no doubt what they have voted for. Should we just tell them tough, remove all UK investment and infrastructure (there is still significant military and naval presence there) and get rid of all the jobs that it supports?
[15:20:37] <n1> well that is the question
[15:20:59] <n1> what is more important, the idea of freedom and self determination and such
[15:21:14] <n1> or the economics consequences of making the wrong decision/voting the wrong way
[15:21:36] <n1> "you can have freedom, but we'll damn sure make you regret asking for it" - like the scottish independence vote
[15:21:45] <janrinok> The Spaniards who make the most noise tend to be the ones who want to pick up a cheap 2nd home in Gib and make it a gentrified tourist paradise. They don't seem to have the average spaniards desires in their mind at all
[15:22:18] <n1> which weirdly, is the opposite perspective of how it would work if the UK left the EU - they'd never use utlimatums like that, because thats not fair.
[15:22:51] <n1> they want our trade, they'd do anything to keep our trade, even if we left.... but if scotland leaves the UK, they can get fucked and we'll make sure they suffer, even if it costs us too
[15:23:06] <n1> janrinok, no doubt
[15:23:21] <n1> there will be spanish econommic and political interests at work there, just the same as falklands and many of the others
[15:23:50] <n1> or we could go back to the days of the empire getting independence, who apparently didnt want it when first asked
[15:23:54] <janrinok> I don't interpret it that way with regards to Scotland. They do very well out of the UK per capita - they cannot expect to have independence and _still_ be propped up by London.
[15:24:11] <n1> until the UK government spend lots of time and money convincing them that it was a great idea for independence
[15:24:18] <n1> when it was economically appealing to the UK to do so
[15:24:51] <janrinok> well I haven't got much info about that, so I can't argue it either way
[15:24:52] <n1> janrinok, i dont disagree at all.
[15:25:08] <n1> i'm not talking about the reality of the situation, which would have been very tough for scotland
[15:25:15] <n1> i'm talking about the political spin from the UK establishment
[15:25:36] <janrinok> ah political spin changes from one election to the next as we both know
[15:25:49] <n1> indeed, but yet the voting majority seems to buy into it every time
[15:26:36] <janrinok> and if you are going to fight for something - then fight to win. But I strongly advocate not fighting at all. But those that have genuinely fought tend to think that....
[15:26:38] <n1> the real world is more shades of grey than anything, certainly more than 50.
[15:26:47] <janrinok> lol
[15:27:25] <n1> i cant fight for anything, i dont have conviction in my ideals enough because im always trying to view them from other perspectives
[15:27:28] <n1> im a shitty revolutionary
[15:27:32] <janrinok> lol
[15:27:49] <janrinok> they need thinkers and planners and doers - not just warriors
[15:28:30] <n1> people who have the conviction and motivation view the world in how it should be, and generally do everything possible to ignore history and human nature
[15:28:58] <n1> the idea that those without power, think that people with it are just like them really, and wont do anything they can do hold onto and extend their power at every opportunity
[15:29:27] <n1> people not motivated for power, dont seem to understand the allure for the people who are
[15:30:19] <janrinok> well there is always the middle ground. For example, the airport in Gib is now jointly used by Spain and Gib. Two different access points and separate Customs posts but all arriving in 1 departure lounge
[15:30:55] <n1> that sounds great
[15:31:01] <janrinok> Its only because any agreement will require compromise on _both_ sides that nothing gets agreed.
[15:31:04] <n1> but im sure angers some people beyond words on both the spanish and british sides
[15:31:29] <n1> you cant give them an inch because they'll take a mile
[15:31:36] <n1> then you have to ask for a mile because you're only going to get an inch
[15:31:42] <janrinok> yep - both sides see it as a climb down rather than think of the benefits of the cooperation
[15:32:57] <janrinok> You missed SN's 1 year birthday last week when you were away
[15:33:06] <n1> wow, it's been a year?
[15:33:17] <janrinok> yep - it sure has
[15:33:26] <n1> thats worth celebrating
[15:33:43] <janrinok> ..although my own official arrival was at the end of Feb
[15:35:22] <n1> how time flies, but it makes me very happy we reached that milestone
[15:35:49] <n1> and in what it seems like a reasonably peaceful manner
[15:36:05] <janrinok> https://soylentnews.org
[15:36:06] <Hedonismbot> ^ 03SN article:  SoylentNews is One Year Old! 04(91 comments)
[15:36:35] <janrinok> even poutine appeared to make a comment!
[15:39:14] <n1> going through the comments now
[15:39:20] <n1> making me smile
[15:42:47] <janrinok> I understand - I'm not sure that I believed that we would make it this far either at times.
[15:46:11] <n1> i agree with your comment, obviously
[15:46:14] <n1> same perspective
[15:47:30] <n1> these comments are really encouraging to keep working
[15:48:03] <janrinok> exactly. There are days when I wonder if it is worthwhile and others when I _know_ it is
[15:49:56] <n1> i tend to wonder as well, then i'll catch a story i edited with only a handful of comments
[15:50:12] <n1> but one of those comments will have been a really informative one that someone put a lot of effort into
[15:50:25] <n1> which makes it all worth it for me, seeing people contribute like that
[15:51:25] <janrinok> well, congrats to you to seeing as you weren't here when that story went out. I've enjoyed working alongside you.
[15:54:02] <n1> it has been a pleasure working with you and indeed everyone on the team(s)
[15:54:11] <n1> not sure i can thank you for inviting me into this mess though :P
[15:54:36] <janrinok> it's your own fault - you could have said 'no' :)
[15:55:02] <n1> heh, true
[15:55:43] <n1> dont regret it at all, if anything i wish i had more time and energy to put into it
[15:56:56] <janrinok> I've just got to learn to manage my time better, and not spend too much time on here despite what I might actually 'want' to do.
[15:57:54] <n1> i suck at time management
[15:58:08] <n1> but you do need a balance, for sanity and to stop burning out
[15:59:27] <janrinok> unfortunately, I fell foul of the latter when trying to juggle my personal life with my SN life. In the end, something had to give. We now get much more support at home for S so that has made things much easier for me.
[16:00:18] <n1> I can appreciate that, with all that going on you have done amazing really keeping those stories coming
[16:00:38] <n1> glad to hear you have more support, which i would assume is making things better for both yourself and S
[16:01:08] <janrinok> yes very much so
[16:02:03] <janrinok> some of it was simply a matter of rejigging the timings for the nurse etc, so that it was more convenient for us and meant that S had to be moved fewer times during the day.
[16:03:04] <janrinok> ...but we actually get more help at home as well. In fact, they are a lovely bunch of people and we all get on very well together
[16:03:16] <n1> that is great, makes me very happy to hear
[16:03:52] <n1> sometimes i forget there are good people out there
[16:05:42] <janrinok> I know that the French tend to be stereotyped and the butt of many jokes, but they are actually not a bad bunch of people to live amongst. They do things differently, but that can be said of any large group of people. When you learn to think as they think, many of their comments and actions make perfectly good sense.
[16:06:46] <n1> I would agree. Different doesn't mean wrong.
[16:07:07] <n1> Thats was my problem with the island living, my expectations were wrong, not the core of their culture
[16:07:20] <n1> I see far more wrong here now, than I do over there
[16:07:38] <janrinok> its just a bigger island....
[16:07:55] <n1> yup
[16:08:09] <n1> i dont think i'll have a problem with the french culture really, will take some adjusting
[16:09:04] <n1> hopefully i'll be able to spend a week or so over there sometime later in the year to get a feel for the place
[16:09:22] <janrinok> every nation has it share of arseholes and idiots. Fortunately, most of them become politicians and so we can recognise them quickly and we tend to keep them in specific places e.g. Parliament, Council buildings etc. Its when they escape that the problems begin ;)
[16:09:26] <n1> from a non-tourist perspective, which wont be that easy in a week, but as long as im approaching it from the right way, it should be informative in some way
[16:10:17] <janrinok> if you can find time to make it to ritanny there is always a beer or two waiting to go with a curry or whatever.
[16:10:22] <n1> i figure, when i am the only person around who is in a rush and stressed... i am the person who's doing it wrong.
[16:10:37] <n1> awesome :D
[16:10:42] <n1> i wont forget heheh
[16:10:50] <janrinok> damn I've gone into bold - I didn't even know I could do that!
[16:11:05] <n1> beer and curry is important
[16:11:20] <n1> cant escape my britishness when it comes to beer and curry
[16:11:23] <n1> :p
[16:11:46] <janrinok> And we have spare beds of course....
[16:13:14] <n1> when i do make it over, i am certain i will drop by for a beer, and i dont turn down food!
[16:14:50] <n1> should probably make a start at learning french again soon
[16:14:54] <janrinok> If you want to bring a friend along, we can cope
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[16:16:29] <n1> cool, thanks! the plan is to come with a friend but i need to go over there more than i need company for it sort of thing, so i'm not counting on it just yet.
[16:16:55] <janrinok> np - let me know nearer the time
[16:17:36] <n1> of course, the offer is very much appreciated and i do hope to take you up on it.
[16:18:05] <n1> people on irc have helped me massively in getting around the world
[16:18:30] <janrinok> you're welcome. I'll probably have to go soon, the nurse has arrived and I'll have to start preparing our evening meal.
[16:18:40] <n1> places to sleep, help with transport etc - i feel very lucky
[16:19:03] <n1> i need to go to lidl actually and get some bread
[16:19:14] <n1> body is telling me it's time for food
[16:19:36] <janrinok> my body is always saying that!
[16:20:46] <n1> hope you enjoy whatever delights you're cooking this evening, and you can rest easy as i will fill up the stories queue over this evening ;)
[16:21:09] <janrinok> its full up to midnight although some need a second look.
[16:21:51] <n1> yeah, i will go over them first and then top up as the submissions come in
[16:22:15] <janrinok> I haven't spoken to LamX in quite a while - he seems to be putting up stories but we don't see him on here very often
[16:22:43] <janrinok> If you speak to him - send my regards pse
[16:22:56] <n1> will do
[16:23:07] <janrinok> must go
[16:23:14] <n1> and to lidl must i go!
[16:23:14] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[16:23:18] <n1> take care janrinok|afk
[16:23:23] <n1> always a pleasure to chat :)
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[18:57:44] <n1> wb janrinok
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[19:04:23] <janrinok> and to you nick
[19:06:55] <n1> have a nice dinner?
[19:08:06] <janrinok> yep. Cauliflower cheese stuffed with pork and chorizo, with veggies
[19:10:55] <n1> can't say i'm a fan of cauliflower, but as long as you enjoyed it :D
[19:14:10] <janrinok> the chorizo helps...
[19:15:16] <janrinok> that was an epic post regarding the bee bots - there is probably 2 -3 pages of submission alone!
[19:15:33] <n1> i cant say ive even looked at that one
[19:15:45] <janrinok> steel yourself before you do....
[19:15:51] <n1> wow....
[19:16:23] <janrinok> I think that you are very restrained with that comment
[19:19:21] <n1> i dont even know where to start
[19:19:40] <janrinok> neither did I - so I didn't
[19:20:15] <janrinok> its his only submission and I#m not sure if it is intended to be taken seriously
[19:21:16] <janrinok> the content appears genuine - the links check out - but its hardly a submission, rather a book!
[19:21:20] <n1> if you google the email address it comes from
[19:21:27] <n1> you can find a cover letter to go with his CV from 2006
[19:23:09] <n1> makes me think it is genuine
[19:28:34] <n1> i'm struggling to even get through the first couple paragraphs
[19:29:10] <n1> hmmm
[19:29:13] <janrinok> agreed - its hardly a good read although full of interesting facts. It needs a complete rewrite.
[19:29:30] <n1> it could just be a copy/paste i think
[19:30:03] <n1> but the original article is behind new scientist paywall
[19:30:07] <janrinok> quite possible but he would still have to insert the links if he copied/pasta'd it
[19:30:28] <n1> if you copy/paste "YOU'VE probably heard about Beemageddon. Over the past few years, colony collapse disorder"
[19:30:30] <n1> into google
[19:31:01] <n1> YOU'VE probably heard about Beemageddon. Over the past few years, colony collapse disorder – thought to be brought on by a pernicious combination of overwork, bad weather, pesticides and infestations of parasitic varroa mites – has been...
[19:31:01] <n1> New Scientist 2013-11-18
[19:31:22] <janrinok> ah regurgitated old material?
[19:31:37] <n1> the first paragraph is from the submitter
[19:31:45] <n1> it seems like the rest is regurgitated as you say
[19:32:11] <n1> im searching different parts in google
[19:32:17] <n1> and they're all going back to the new scientist article
[19:32:24] <janrinok> that's a lot of effort for a troll submission
[19:32:56] <janrinok> the most recent link I have found is Nov 2014 so it is not all old news
[19:34:36] <n1> https://www.paste.to
[19:34:37] <Hedonismbot> ^ 03bee bots to replace the bees monsanto killed - Paste.to
[19:34:44] <janrinok> OK - cracked it. Its a direct lift of HTML from multiple stories
[19:34:50] <n1> has the whole text, which seems to be from 2013
[19:34:57] <n1> possibly with new sources added
[19:36:58] <n1> i dont have any interest in it now really now, is it worth doing anything with?
[19:37:02] <janrinok> I'd be tempted to simply ignore it. It is not a 'today' story and, although it has taken some effort to produce, it is lacking a thread or conclusion. A _lot_ or work required
[19:37:10] <n1> aye
[19:37:33] <n1> for all the work we'd need to put into it, i cant see it being interesting for many/anyone really
[19:37:43] <n1> and if it is, they probably read it already elsewhere
[19:38:06] <janrinok> not as the individual elements have all been published quite widely before, albeit not by us.
[19:38:54] <janrinok> for the effort he put in, he could have made a good submission...
[19:39:10] <n1> aye
[19:39:18] <n1> seems like a waste
[19:39:55] <janrinok> its the sort of thing we should keep somewhere to give to prospective editors - or is that the cruel streak in me coming out ;)
[19:40:06] <n1> haha
[19:40:14] <n1> 'guide' them to their first submission
[19:40:28] <janrinok> it's so bad it's good
[19:42:04] <n1> well, i didn't look at the submission until you mentioned it
[19:42:09] <n1> which shows how unengaging even the headline is
[19:42:12] <n1> for me anyway
[19:42:37] <janrinok> I'm copying it to dev to save for training/prosperity!
[19:42:49] <n1> sounds like a good plan
[19:45:52] <janrinok> I've annotated in the real sub list and taken a copy to dev
[19:46:59] <janrinok> by the way, dev is v e r y s l o w tonight
[19:49:41] <janrinok> it will not go through the dev SPAM filter! How the hell did we get on prod?
[19:52:55] <n1> maybe one of our dev overlords will know
[20:02:22] <paulej72> the spam filters are slighly different between prod and dev
[20:04:36] <janrinok> thx paulej72 - we have a story in the submission queue that is rubbish as a submission but would be useful in dev for teaching purposes. Do you know an easy way to achieve that?
[20:06:10] <paulej72> fixed the filters on dev it was cialis one that can be part of specialist
[20:06:27] <paulej72> needed to wrap the regex in \b
[20:07:14] <janrinok> thx - it has transferred nicely now
[20:08:00] <paulej72> or in this case specialising
[20:08:57] <janrinok> much obliged for your assistance or, as we say here, thanks :)
[20:09:53] <paulej72> I nver fixed the filters on dev as we ususally only post test stories there anymore.
[20:10:49] <janrinok> this was certainly a 'test' submission - about 3 pages of copy/pasta HTML which looked good but was simply old material regurgitated
[20:11:31] <janrinok> loads of links, sounded authoritative, but absolutely useless to us
[20:12:35] <paulej72> plus could have gotten us into lawer trouble
[20:12:49] <janrinok> possibly that too
[20:13:45] <janrinok> but - it contained so many teaching points in a single article, it was too good a resource to waste.
[20:14:14] <paulej72> true
[20:38:01] <janrinok> got to go - bye all
[20:38:52] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: cu tomorrow bye]