#editorial | Logs for 2014-12-29

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[18:42:48] <janrinok> nick: Hi - long time, no chat!
[18:54:09] <nick> hey janrinok
[18:54:14] <nick> indeed it has been
[18:54:25] <nick> I hope you are well
[19:10:37] <janrinok> nick: Yeah, not too bad. Still not 100% but much better than I was thanks. Had a good Christmas?
[19:13:13] <nick> didn't know what happened to you, i did send you an email some weeks ago to see where you were at.
[19:13:23] <nick> christmas was good, uneventful.
[19:13:28] <janrinok> Ah - not received.
[19:14:34] <nick> well, i'm glad to see you back at any rate
[19:14:37] <janrinok> Making a reasonable (but slooooow) recovery. And I have had to cut down on the number of informal jobs and responsibilities that I had.
[19:14:59] <janrinok> Nice to be in touch with you too!
[19:15:01] <nick> assuming you've had some illness?
[19:15:45] <janrinok> Exhaustion - pure and simple. But that led to me overdoing things physically, so I have to fix several tendon and ligament problems.
[19:16:01] <nick> ah, i understand. sorry to hear that :(
[19:16:42] <janrinok> Mostly caused - unintentionally of course - by having to look after S. We now have significantly more home help. :)
[19:18:20] <nick> yeah, events and circumstance out of your control, we manage as best we can but sometimes that's not enough.
[19:18:36] <nick> very good to hear you've got more support now, should improve things for both of you?
[19:19:08] <janrinok> I'm trying to contribute to SN where I can, and currently I'm trying to find stories for the queue. We have had some pretty poor items recently that have had to go out - the list has actually held nothing of any use on a few occasions!
[19:20:36] <nick> i havn't been keeping up at all for about a month. work took over, shit hit the fan, everything blah.
[19:21:08] <janrinok> Sorry to hear that - you were missed of course. Everything sorted now?
[19:22:08] <nick> the worst is over now, but a lot of stress and shit going on still. i need minions lol
[19:22:38] <janrinok> Hope you manage to get it sorted without too much personal cost.
[19:23:49] <nick> all is well, trying to remain positive and not let the stress and bullshit get to me
[19:25:10] <janrinok> Did Father Christmas bring you what you wanted?
[19:25:31] <nick> haha, yeah i guess so... a day of rest
[19:25:39] <janrinok> ...or was the personal lap-dancer a request too far?
[19:25:56] <nick> hahah
[19:26:12] <nick> apparently
[19:26:23] <nick> how about yourself. did you have a good xmas?
[19:26:32] <nick> and anything lined up for nye?
[19:26:48] <janrinok> I found that out too. She was replaced by an Amazon Book Token.
[19:28:02] <nick> typical random substitutions like tesco home delivery service
[19:28:23] <janrinok> Xmas not too bad - have the parents-in-law here so some extra work in a few departments and a lot of help in most of the others. Plans for NYE are to take it nice and quiet. S has deteriorated over the last few months so we take things much easier now.
[19:30:00] <nick> that sucks. although i'm a fan of quite a nye so it works for me.
[19:31:49] <janrinok> The prognosis was expected, so no surprise there. As for NYE, watching a clock change whilst also viewing crap TV showing people also watching the clock change ceased to be a must-see quite a few years ago...
[19:32:34] <nick> the last few i've noticed it after the event, 20-30mins late
[19:32:55] <janrinok> I've successfully slept through the last 2 or 3....
[19:33:05] <nick> on my xmas being uneventful, my grandfather did threaten to disown me on christmas day lol
[19:33:44] <janrinok> I do hope he retracted ....
[19:34:21] <nick> i mentioned that i looked at russel brands new book
[19:34:36] <nick> didn't get to finish my point or give him the chance to understand the context of what i was saying
[19:34:56] <janrinok> Ah, I am unaware of the said publication - is it controversial then?
[19:35:07] <nick> "if you bought that book, i would disown you, he's a disgrace and a hypocrite"
[19:35:29] <janrinok> Well, at least you know where you stand, lol
[19:35:50] <nick> russel brand has been talking about establishment politics and such, the book is around some form of 'revolution'
[19:36:45] <nick> but the whole point i was actually trying to make before being threatened with being disowned is: I saw the book as a large hard back, rrp of £18.99 or something
[19:37:06] <nick> so there is a certain barrier to entry to read about the problems with establishment politics and being detatched from the poor
[19:37:47] <janrinok> you make a good point
[19:37:55] <nick> if you want to get your views out about this, to the people who you're supposed to be speaking for
[19:38:05] <nick> the book needs to be affordable for those people
[19:38:27] <nick> but i didn't get a chance to make that point, just mentioning the word russel brand was wrong.
[19:38:41] <nick> word/name
[19:39:19] <janrinok> understood. Well, it was probably more fun than watching the Q's Speech.
[19:39:58] <nick> dont think ive ever watched one
[19:40:16] <janrinok> you have missed nothing.
[19:40:33] <nick> thats what i assumed, seems pointless
[19:41:01] <nick> i'm sure it gave some solace to the ex citylink employees and contractorsd
[19:41:02] <nick> -d
[19:41:19] <janrinok> I think I spent the time on SN editing if my memory serves me correctly
[19:42:18] <nick> well, by doing that you've spread more knowledge and awareness than the queen did
[19:42:58] <janrinok> Yes, saw that story on the news this evening. Looks like it should have been seen coming but it looks like it has been handled badly. The company _might_ recoup half of its investment, but I bet they don't pass it on to their former workers.
[19:43:14] <nick> i'm actually taking a looking at the q's speech now
[19:43:26] <janrinok> you _must_ be bored...
[19:43:47] <nick> well, i have some thoughts on the citylink thing and from a business perspective, they had to shut then because they couldnt meet their obligations, fine
[19:43:50] <nick> thats how the system works
[19:44:15] <nick> but at the same time, during the christmas season they took on their seasonal independent contractors (not employees), to deliver for xmas
[19:44:34] <nick> when they hired those people on, they knew they wernt going to be able to make their obligations in a month time, but they could on that month
[19:44:40] <nick> so they hired all these independent contractors
[19:44:50] <nick> who now are just 'unsecured debtors' i understand
[19:44:52] <nick> so wont get paid
[19:45:00] <janrinok> yep, but it looks like they might have known about it far longer than they are admitting, but were hoping that Christmas would change things. However, I'm only going on a brief news piece that I might have got the wrong end of the stick on.
[19:45:08] <nick> nah, they knew
[19:45:12] <nick> i looked it up last night
[19:45:20] <nick> Better Capital, the firm that 'owns' citylink
[19:45:26] <nick> their shares tanked in january, never recovered
[19:45:31] <nick> and have only gone up in the last couple of weeks
[19:45:59] <janrinok> That makes sense of the bits that I had heard.
[19:46:09] <nick> so they're recovering from what everyone in the industry knew was coming, they knew it was coming and the investors cashed out
[19:46:26] <nick> they did that a year ago, and a few dropped out a bit later during the summer
[19:46:43] <nick> http://markets.ft.com
[19:46:43] <Hedonismbot> ^ 03Better Capital PCC Ltd, BCAP:LSE summary - FT.com
[19:46:52] <nick> look at that and tell me they didnt know what was going on
[19:47:43] <janrinok> yep - they knew
[19:47:46] <nick> so this whole 'hoping things would get better over christmas' is total bullshit, and the contractors are in the same situation i was in earlier this year
[19:47:57] <nick> hired by a company that knew they wouldn't be able to meet their obligations when it was due
[19:48:02] <nick> but it wasnt due yet, so it doesn't matter
[19:48:30] <janrinok> did your's finally get resolved satisfactorily?
[19:48:35] <nick> noper
[19:48:39] <janrinok> sry
[19:49:31] <nick> i'm sick of feeling like the only honest person in business
[19:50:04] <janrinok> No, I suspect that there are many others like you, but it doesn't take too many dishonest people to skew the picture.
[19:50:23] <nick> there are, but few of them are the decision makers in business
[19:50:32] <nick> they're the employees, the minions
[19:50:38] <janrinok> come the revolution.....
[19:51:10] <nick> i'm working on some contracts, and the guy running the business is straight and i have a good business relationship with him.
[19:51:40] <nick> however, he doesn't run the day to day operations. but his underlings are of the bean counter type, everything comes down to the £ figure
[19:51:55] <janrinok> Well I hope it all works out for you.
[19:52:47] <nick> and it's very hard to compete in that environment, because it's their job to save £, and by hiring someone else they can do that. the other person might do shitty work, but they're cheaper and that's all that matters on the spreadsheet.
[19:53:39] <janrinok> when will the bean counters learn that poor quality will reflect on them and hit their bottom line eventually?
[19:53:52] <nick> things will work out, but i just dont play that game... the price is the price, if i could give you a cheaper price then i would have already.
[19:54:21] <janrinok> good point again
[19:55:05] <janrinok> I'm trying some c++ for a bit of change
[19:55:20] <nick> got some projects you're working on?
[19:56:13] <janrinok> nothing substantial, just changing some of the computer admin, web scraping and miscellaneous bits and pieces...
[19:57:11] <janrinok> I've gotten out of practice and need to update to C++11 etf
[19:57:17] <janrinok> *etc
[19:57:45] <nick> always something new to learn or old to refresh with coding skills i'd imagine
[19:58:04] <janrinok> yep, and it gives the grey matter a good clean out!
[19:59:11] <nick> good way to keep the mind sharp no doubt
[19:59:46] <janrinok> there is not much else here for me to do to get my intellectual juices flowing.
[20:00:26] <nick> key is if you get enjoyment from it
[20:01:37] <janrinok> that I do. I can't do some of the physical tasks that I enjoy because of my minor injuries, I can't leave S alone for very long, so the computer is my connection to the outside world and the best intellectual stimulus that I have.
[20:02:15] <janrinok> That sounded much worse than life actually is - its not bad at all really
[20:02:56] <nick> not always the best solution but it's still a pretty good one to get your brain working, lots of possibilities for creation, lots of media to consume
[20:03:29] <janrinok> and I have recently discovered how much time I can completely waste just looking at imgur.com!
[20:03:37] <nick> not much in the outside world worth seeing here right now
[20:03:48] <janrinok> true
[20:04:17] <nick> i'll get my outside time next month when i go visit the parents
[20:04:17] <janrinok> Hey, its good to talk to you again.
[20:04:36] <janrinok> Where are they at present?
[20:04:53] <nick> indeed it is, always a pleasure and very happy to have you back around!
[20:04:59] <nick> caribbean
[20:05:04] <janrinok> thought so
[20:05:29] <nick> so hopefully miss the worst weather and enjoy some island life
[20:05:34] <janrinok> is your dad planning to be back in the UK for the festivals again?
[20:05:42] <nick> although the focus will be refitting bathrooms and other related tasks
[20:06:33] <janrinok> the change will do you good, although I suspect you will also look forward to getting back to a cold and damp UK.
[20:06:39] <nick> yeah, he's not going to miss that heh, especially now with the connections we've made and the work we're lining up for next season
[20:07:11] <nick> more likely looking forward to getting away from the parents heh
[20:07:18] <janrinok> I was being tactful
[20:07:29] <nick> heh
[20:07:54] <nick> should be better than last years projects
[20:07:58] <janrinok> love my parents-in-law to bits, but I also enjoy waving goodbye after 3 or 4 weeks
[20:08:23] <janrinok> what plans do you have for the new season?
[20:08:43] <nick> for the festival season?
[20:08:47] <janrinok> yep
[20:10:01] <nick> few different areas, the security stuff is the primary focus but other infrastructure too including electrical supplies and signage
[20:11:10] <nick> very much depends on how the calendar fills up, things should become clearer over the next month or two. have had some contact from a very large promoter that took me by surprise, which before we've even really started put us out of the comfort zone heh
[20:11:50] <janrinok> a challenge might not be a bad thing?
[20:12:31] <nick> it could be a very good thing
[20:13:14] <nick> we were anticipating working on festivals upto about 25,000 people... we're now looking at 85,000...
[20:14:31] <janrinok> that is quite a step up - I'm sure that you are up to it though
[20:15:08] <nick> have to find a way, that's all it comes down to, can't turn business down
[20:15:37] <janrinok> does it promise to pay well?
[20:16:22] <nick> 'ok' is about it, but at this point it's more about getting the work as a good reference
[20:16:33] <janrinok> ok, makes sense
[20:16:41] <nick> if we can show our work at high profile festivals, it's going to reflect well on us for other clients.
[20:16:59] <janrinok> good luck with it!
[20:17:52] <nick> thanks :)
[20:19:28] <nick> really should make some dinner
[20:19:34] <nick> kettle chips are not a meal
[20:19:48] <janrinok> what's on the menu other than kettle chips?
[20:21:31] <nick> beef noodle stir-fry
[20:22:29] <janrinok> that's sounds more like your usual standard...!
[20:22:55] <nick> i've been stocking up on noodle now i know which brand to get
[20:25:57] <nick> although i'm still fixated on the cajun pork i had yesterday, which sadly i dont know where the seasoning came from
[20:26:00] <nick> so i can't replicate it
[20:26:23] <janrinok> Ah, I hate not being able to recreate 'secret' recipes.
[20:27:52] <nick> it's not fair lol
[20:28:57] <nick> i'm going to make dinner. has been a pleasure as always... All the best to S and yourself :)
[20:29:40] <janrinok> thx - take care, see you around I hope!
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[22:02:25] <nick> g'day Blackmoore
[22:02:38] <Blackmoore> ello
[22:02:50] <Blackmoore> hows it going?
[22:03:03] <nick> it's going, feeling refreshed after a good meal and a shower
[22:03:06] <nick> how about yourself?
[22:06:32] <Blackmoore> at work till 8 (another 3 hours) still recovering from the xmas holiday and soo many nights of very little sleep
[22:07:40] <nick> good xmas though?
[22:15:46] <Blackmoore> yeah
[22:16:48] <Blackmoore> we skipped the decorating, i baked a lot of cookies. saw the kids and put the burden of next xmas on them
[22:17:38] <Blackmoore> frankly I know they dont drive; but i kinda need to know what next year should look like
[22:17:55] <nick> how do you mean?
[22:42:27] <Blackmoore> our original xmas is no longer possible; since my folks are now in long term care, and my 3 older kids are in college (or trying to find work)
[22:42:43] <Blackmoore> not really kids any more
[22:43:21] <Blackmoore> it's time to create new "family" gatherings
[23:00:44] <nick> ah, that makes sense
[23:04:32] <nick> xmas here was very quiet, just the grandparents, my uncle and myself. and we managed to avoid political disputes for the most part.
[23:06:10] <Blackmoore> nod bad, i was surprised how we avioded politics at the wifes family this year
[23:17:45] <nick> good times heh
[23:22:01] <Blackmoore> we lost her father this year; it's a good reason to not get into arguments about crap.
[23:24:32] <nick> thats not so good, but yeah dont want to fuel emotional fires
[23:27:09] <Blackmoore> yeah.
[23:29:02] <nick> as i mentioned to janrinok earlier, my grandfather threatened to disown me because i happened to mention a book (russell brands 'revolution')
[23:29:27] <nick> without letting me finish the point i was making, just mentioning "i looked at russell brands new book..." then i got cut off and "if you bought that i would disown you"
[23:33:45] <Blackmoore> fer cripes sake
[23:34:37] <Blackmoore> I wish my grandfather was still around so he could go off about how congress is ruinin everthing FDR did.
[23:35:39] <nick> all i know is (if my grandparents are to be believed), there was no greater government leader than Thatcher
[23:35:51] <Blackmoore> cripes.
[23:36:24] <nick> literally flawless for 3 terms of government, no controversy ever happened, everyone in the country loved her and she was perfect.
[23:36:31] <nick> thats apparently how the 80's went down
[23:36:34] <Blackmoore> but i can kinda see that. UK had been living in more or less recovery mode from wwii up to her
[23:37:00] <nick> the scandals that did happen are wiped from history, and the ever narrowing margin and eventual defeat are forgotten entirely
[23:37:06] <Blackmoore> but she was far from perfect. in fact you can poke holes in everything she did
[23:37:25] <nick> the holes are irrelevant because the other side is far worse
[23:37:28] <nick> is always the answer
[23:37:31] <Blackmoore> but i grew up with st Reagan
[23:37:57] <nick> no matter the flaws in policy, or the negative effects of policy we're feeling today
[23:38:08] <Blackmoore> and i belived in that crap till i started looking at historical numbers about wealth in the US
[23:38:55] <nick> i even questioned about "what about the several years of growth under the labour government from 97-2005"
[23:39:10] <nick> "that was because labour followed "mrs thatchers" policies for those years"
[23:39:46] <nick> every other PM is just their surname, blair, brown, major, cameron
[23:39:57] <nick> but it's "mrs. thatcher" being the exception
[23:41:08] <nick> it's something i notice and generally assume to be implied authority when people are using a formal title
[23:42:55] <nick> the thing i find generally with this, my grandparents and i generally agree on the goal, as far as politics goes. but there's no solution to it
[23:43:28] <nick> it's just "vote conservative because they're not the irresponsible union loving labour party"
[23:43:56] <nick> even if the party they are voting for is actually proposing policies that will only get us further from the mutually agreeable goals.
[23:44:57] <Blackmoore> geh.
[23:45:12] <Blackmoore> i really dont get why people igone the data
[23:45:37] <nick> because the data conflicts with ideology
[23:46:14] <nick> i made the point to my family that it didnt matter that Labour was in for years and thats why we've got the economic problems of today, because of them being irresponsible for 15 years
[23:46:38] <nick> and the data i use to show that is, the defecit and debt chart for the UK, mirrors almost perfectly the debt chart of the US.
[23:47:04] <nick> and to me that says, it didnt matter what government was doing what, we were heading down the same path since the 1960's
[23:47:10] <nick> whatever party was in government
[23:47:11] <Blackmoore> same way people ignore the way republicans ahve been making it all worse since the 80's.
[23:48:07] <Blackmoore> not that the democrats are really better - but they are ACTIVELY cutting us a thousand times
[23:48:12] <Blackmoore> arent
[23:48:51] <nick> very similar situation here
[23:49:24] <nick> labour do what the democrats do, conervatives do what the republicans do, but both are more nuanced here than there, but at the same time the end goal isn't really any different
[23:50:22] <nick> one thing i did discover the other day.... people do a lot of talking about how there are 'too many managers' in the NHS these days, not enough doctors and nurses reflecting on the good old days of 'matrons'.
[23:50:54] <nick> however, the TV show Yes Minister, did an episode on exactly that subject
[23:50:58] <nick> and it aired in 1981.
[23:51:12] <nick> over 30 years later, the discussion has not changed one tiny bit
[23:54:21] <nick> "the labour government (97-2010) had too many special advisors" ..... "but since this current government in 2010, the number of special advisors went from 74 to over 100"
[23:54:28] <nick> that however, is irrelevant and completely ignored
[23:56:35] <juggs> The advisors do not change regardless whether blue or red is supposed to be in charge. I think it's otherwise known as a shell game... or "which Eton old boy would you wish to vote for"
[23:57:14] <nick> ah but you see juggs, the only reason that has to happen is because labour and the unions cant be trusted!
[23:57:21] <juggs> Or "pick your poison - either will kill you"
[23:57:26] <nick> so the conservatives are forced to do it
[23:58:28] <nick> of course the tory faithful have had a very good time of it this government, as anything and everything not going to plan on the can be blamed on the libdems sabotage.
[23:58:55] <Blackmoore> simpler to blame the other side for the problem than to admit you caused it