#editorial | Logs for 2014-11-20
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[17:48:08] * nick rages
[17:49:07] <Bytram> nick: what's up?
[17:49:54] <nick> raging at being the small business, another client lost to corporate high pressure sales.
[17:50:22] <Bytram> sorry to hear that!
[17:50:32] <Bytram> that must be very frustrating...
[17:51:17] <nick> it's been like 4 in a row, i saw this possible new client on tuesday morning, got the quote to them this afternoon, my business partner called to give them another client of ours for a reference about an hour after i'd put the quote through the door
[17:51:38] <nick> and "oh, i've signed up with ADT, thanks."
[17:52:01] <Bytram> bummer!
[17:52:16] <Bytram> did they say why they chose ADT?
[17:52:29] <nick> no, but the point is
[17:52:45] <nick> she chose ADT before she had even seen my quote
[17:52:55] <Bytram> blegh!!!!!!
[17:53:04] <nick> and after i'd explained how the larger companies operate and to be careful to listen to exactly what they promise
[17:53:18] <nick> but the man in the suit that wont leave until you sign a contract seems to always win.
[17:53:36] <Bytram> hmmmm.... I have an idea.
[17:53:47] <nick> my "we will send you a detailed written quote and you can make your decision in your own time" doesn't work.
[17:54:17] <nick> one off cost, everything itemized, clearly written, no smallprint.
[17:54:33] <nick> psh, fuck that.. lets sign up for a 3 year contract which gives you fuck all but costs $50 a month!
[17:54:37] <Bytram> have you thought about checking in on prior clients that you tried to sign up to see how well they are liking the results of the high-pressured contract they signed? After having tasted "the dark side", they might be interested in coming back to you?
[17:55:01] <nick> it's too late, they get locked in for 3 years
[17:55:40] <Bytram> this one, yes. I'm thinking of other ones that you had contacted, say, a couple years ago and who had signed up with a high-pressured sales org, to see if they might now be interested in coming back to you?
[17:55:53] <nick> and me taking over is going to cost them my orginal quote all over because of how the new systems work
[17:56:59] <Bytram> not sure I understand; installation cost is much greater than annual cost, so it is prohibitively expensive to change over?
[17:57:27] <nick> they pay a small installation cost and a monthly cost with the corporate systems
[17:57:36] <nick> but for me to take over, they're going to have to pay a large installation cost
[17:57:49] <nick> when they could just keep paying the monthly cost and deal with what they already have
[17:58:00] <Bytram> okay, so they basically finance the installation cost over the duration of the contract?
[17:58:04] <nick> yeah
[17:58:09] <Bytram> got it.
[17:58:23] <nick> and on the new ones, i can't take over the systems because they lock them remotely
[17:58:54] <nick> if it's an older systems i can, but even security industry is in 'the cloud'
[17:59:25] <Bytram> Huh? That's pretty crazy, at least to my way of thinking!
[17:59:32] <nick> and the whole point is, the customer asks about police response if the system gets activated: "you do get emergency services response*"
[17:59:47] <nick> *(fire response, if you have relevant detectors)
[17:59:48] <Bytram> I see where this is going...
[18:00:08] <nick> they answer a different question to what they were asked, and they just bullshit a lot
[18:00:18] <Bytram> when in reality, it just hits their systems, and they, in turn, contact the police/fire dept, etc.
[18:00:32] <nick> the whole point is in recent years, you DO NOT get police response
[18:00:39] <Bytram> yup.
[18:00:41] <nick> unless you have a high grade system which will cost $$$$
[18:00:52] <nick> but they dont say that straight up, they say you get emergency services response
[18:00:58] <nick> and in the small print it really means you get nothing
[18:01:00] <Bytram> nod nod
[18:01:34] <Bytram> they make true statements, but their intention is to mislead and is, therefore, dishonest.
[18:01:39] <nick> clients with technical background, i generally get
[18:01:52] <Bytram> well, THAT's good!
[18:02:02] <nick> 'normal' people, especially the elderly nearly always go with the corporates
[18:02:36] <Bytram> aha, fear... better go with the "big boys" when in reality, it's sheep going to be slaughtered.
[18:03:08] <nick> pretty much
[18:03:35] <nick> i've only really just thought about it, the clients i get for the most part are different from each other, but of a certain type
[18:04:34] <nick> and i have very good rapport with most of them
[18:05:45] <Bytram> I'm reminded of companies that think they are in the money when they "partner" with, say, microsoft or walmart... then find out they made a "deal with the devil"
[18:06:30] <nick> yeah, it's the same kind of deal
[18:06:43] <nick> and whats crazy is, the whole talk from this client was 'i dont want to spend much money on this'
[18:06:54] <nick> and i worked it out on that basis, best value possible
[18:07:08] <nick> and then she signs away for something that will cost a shitload more over the years
[18:07:45] <Bytram> hmmm, I wonder... are there any laws that they have the right to void such a contract within, say, 3 days or anything like that? I'm thiking of some consumer laws we have in the US wrt (IIRC) mobile phone service.
[18:07:45] <nick> "i dont want to spend any money for security on this $780,000 house i just moved into"
[18:08:06] <Bytram> say wot?
[18:08:09] <nick> there is a 7 day cooldown period
[18:08:17] <nick> but most people dont know about that
[18:08:48] <Bytram> offer to review the contract and show them what the *real* cost would be over the course of 3 years?
[18:08:51] <nick> most of the clients i go to have houses worth $500,000-$1m and 70% of them don't want to spend more than $800 on security.
[18:09:09] <nick> most of them are much closer to $1m
[18:09:32] <Bytram> In a very strange kind of way I can understand that, but it's being penny-wise and pound-foolish.
[18:09:53] <nick> without seeing the contract, i don't know what the real cost is; they pick the monthly fee based on what they think the person will accept
[18:10:42] <nick> im sure ive mentioned it before, but one guy with a $1m house beat me down to the cheapest system possible, which is basically just a feel good thing, not very useful
[18:11:04] <nick> but has $80,000 of cars on the drive and a $5,000+ bicycle
[18:11:48] <nick> but not willing to spend even $1,000 to protect the stuff inside the $1m house.
[18:12:32] <Bytram> in that case, it just might be for the best that you did NOT get that one... sounds like you'd be nickle and dimed to death on any kind of [perceived] problem/mistake.
[18:13:06] <nick> i did get the job, and it was fine, havn't had any callbacks and it was from helping a friend out who broke the existing system when redecorating
[18:13:19] <nick> client was fine, nice people
[18:13:28] <nick> but had no desire to spend any money on it
[18:13:35] <Bytram> oh! well, that's nice to hear!
[18:13:43] <nick> i gave them like bronze, silver and gold options
[18:13:53] <Bytram> yeah - keep it simple.
[18:13:56] <nick> and they chose bronze, minus some features to save a little bit more
[18:14:15] <Bytram> also offer them the "wooden nickle" choice
[18:14:30] <nick> i get paid the same regardless of what level the system is, because we're so small we basically cant get any margin on equipment on these small jobs
[18:15:02] <nick> all the cost is on better equipment and more features, i don't make shit on it and often create more work
[18:15:02] <Bytram> ok, but it takes more of your time to do the install, right?
[18:15:19] <nick> so in many ways, the bronze system minus features, is the most profitable for me
[18:15:44] <Bytram> nod nod; I get it now.
[18:15:56] <Bytram> less is more!
[18:16:22] <nick> i have made the mistake before of trying to go all the way with it, supplying too much on my quote to give them a complete package
[18:17:43] <Bytram> question: are these all *wired* connections within the premises, or can/do you use wireless?
[18:18:01] <nick> doing these residential jobs is just a massive waste of time for me really, i need to go back to doing commercial and industrial where there is some money to be made
[18:18:12] <nick> i only do wired now if there is an existing wired system
[18:18:36] <nick> it's usually get called in just after they spent $20k on decorating
[18:18:43] <nick> so running cables around is a really bad idea
[18:18:47] <Bytram> yeah.
[18:19:19] <nick> the systems are really good, they dont need touching really, battery life on the sensors is 5-8 years in theory
[18:19:38] * Bytram spent a summer as an electrician's helper; got way too familiar with trying to run cable in existing construction; lots easier to do with new construction.
[18:19:44] <nick> the shitty systems most companies install have a battery life of 2-3
[18:20:22] <nick> i hate lifting up the carpet and floors in peoples homes
[18:20:45] <Bytram> I know what you mean!
[18:20:48] <nick> having to move all their shit out the way, feels invasive
[18:21:05] <nick> happier times when i mostly worked on bank security systems
[18:21:20] <nick> this just feels like crap the more i do it
[18:22:07] <nick> sorry for the rant but thanks for allowing me to have it :)
[18:22:26] <Bytram> the alternative of trying to string things through walls or in attics or basements is much more time-consuming and challenging... I hear ya!
[18:23:17] <nick> basements don't exist here
[18:23:45] <nick> and most houses are of brick construction so fishing cables down the walls is often impossible
[18:24:33] <nick> unlike commercial where it's suspended ceilings and plasterboard walls, everything gets done quicker and looks better
[18:24:53] <nick> and even if things need to be run on the surface, it's not someones home so it doesn't matter to anyone
[18:25:03] <Bytram> ahhhh... got it. trying to remember, are you in the UK?
[18:25:07] <nick> aye
[18:25:32] <nick> and as i said, get called in just after theyve had they're 1930's built house all nicely redecorated which cost a fortune
[18:25:40] <nick> and then you're supposed to magic cables around the place
[18:26:19] <Bytram> so, ummm, maybe make friends with the redecorators. hmmm?
[18:26:34] <nick> the point is i get called after theyve finished
[18:26:57] <nick> and due to the nature of the work, things dont look better after ive done my job, regardless of how tidy it is
[18:28:17] <nick> people just really like to spend money on shit that 'looks nice'
[18:28:17] <Bytram> I was thinking that if you could make friends with some redecorators, you could do your stuff before the remodelling, and get some leads, too. (maybe with a commission/finders fee for them)
[18:28:32] <nick> already do that, which is how i do get some work
[18:28:40] <nick> but it still only ever comes through after theyve finished decorating
[18:29:15] <Bytram> offer a discount if they do the job with you before the remodel (when, in reality) it is a surcharge if you do it after the remodel.
[18:30:01] <nick> i wish it would work that way, but it just doesn't, i've tried to make it happen trust me
[18:30:50] <Bytram> yeah - it seemed to obvious to be something you'd not thought of, but I'd rather mention something obvious, just in case. yanno?
[18:31:51] <nick> it is what it is, it's a pretty cut throat industry with a lot of dishonesty and misleading sales pitches
[18:32:38] <Bytram> kind of sad that a business which ostensibly is to help people protect themselves is so full of dishonest people.
[18:32:41] <nick> especially at this residential level, it's just not a way to make a sustainable living; the harder i work the less reward i get for it.
[18:33:15] <nick> but this is why i'm working on other business prospects too and hopefully be able to get out of this market entirely
[18:33:44] <Bytram> I wish you the very best!
[18:34:00] <nick> thanks :)
[18:34:16] <nick> hope things are going well for you, and thanks again for enabling my rant!
[18:34:18] <Bytram> I deal with the retail public in my day job, but I just have to do my sales as best I can and let someone else deal with trying to make it profitable. thank goodness!
[18:36:59] <nick> going to take a quick shower then i have to run... always a pleasure Bytram, hope we can have a more positive conversation next time.
[18:37:31] * nick tips hat
[18:37:49] <nick> until next time, good sir
[18:40:02] <Bytram> yes, I should be getting about my day, too. don't know that I was able to help much, but sometimes just sharing what is going on helps quite a bit.
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[21:13:39] <Bytram> http://feeds.arstechnica.com
[21:13:40] <|> ^ 03Top NSA official raised alarm about metadata program in 2009 | Ars Technica ( http://arstechnica.com )
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