#editorial | Logs for 2014-08-25

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[13:21:28] <janrinok> hi guys
[13:23:12] <n1> hey janrinok
[13:27:46] <n1> how are you?
[13:27:56] <janrinok> hi n1 - how's things with you?
[13:28:48] <janrinok> I'm still busy looking after S - her recovery is slow but going in the right direction - and we also got guests staying for a few days. Not much time to sit around....
[13:29:20] <n1> things are ok here, not good or bad, but nothing to really complain about.
[13:29:41] <n1> guests sounds good, if extra work!
[13:31:22] <janrinok> Yeah we are both very pleased to have the company, and they have volunteered to make paella for dinner tonight so that should give me a bit of a break.
[13:33:28] <n1> good deal, i hope you have a pleasant evening. I make the most of every opportunity someone else offers to cook for me heh
[13:34:06] <janrinok> lol - so would I if I got more of them!
[13:35:27] <janrinok> S is looking much better, but it is surprising just how weak it has left her. She has lost much of what little independence she had - hopefully it will return over the coming weeks.
[13:36:05] <janrinok> When is your next festival?
[13:36:24] <n1> :( sorry to hear that
[13:36:31] <n1> the season is done for me
[13:36:44] <janrinok> do you consider it has been a good one?
[13:37:21] <n1> was supposed to be one more, but budget, and i'm waiting on payment for the others - 5 days late so far, hoping it will come through in the next 5.
[13:37:55] <n1> It has been, made some connections and will be focusing in that direction from now on.
[13:38:07] <janrinok> hope that it comes through sooner rather than later! Does that mean that you still have unpaid bills waiting on it?
[13:38:23] <n1> Indeed it does
[13:38:30] <janrinok> bummer
[13:39:19] <n1> I'm sure it will get sorted, i'm not hurting for it right now, i'd rather get paid in full in a month than 25% now and 75% 'one day maybe'
[13:40:15] <janrinok> true...
[13:40:33] <janrinok> but it would be nice if everyone paid you on time once in a while, too.
[13:40:42] <n1> but doing this work, ignoring these funding problems, is a much better direction for the business. there's not much competition, and have quite a few connections in the industry.
[13:41:23] <n1> yeah, most clients are pretty good, and I usually get 50% upfront, but not this time, it's a real complicated situation.
[13:42:44] <janrinok> I know you want to chat about life in France sometime, but are you happy to hold for a few more days yet? I'm only here to put a few stories in the queue before I have to return to my nursing duties :) (I think I look great in the uniform!)
[13:42:56] <n1> heheh
[13:43:01] <n1> Yeah, when you have time, there's no rush.
[13:43:31] <janrinok> ok thx
[13:43:45] <janrinok> Have you seen or heard from zizban in the last few weeks?
[13:44:27] <n1> I have not, had been pondering what happened there. Only assumption I can make is he's away because it's holidays for schools/university etc
[13:45:42] <janrinok> my thoughts too
[13:46:17] <n1> I didn't know it was a bank holiday today until I read about it in the news yesterday.
[13:46:48] <janrinok> lol - that's really why our guests are here at present - although it is not a holiday in France of course.
[13:47:02] <n1> enjoying the 'everyone fucked off for the summer' lack of traffic around these parts though.
[13:47:18] <n1> cuts travel time in half
[13:47:28] <janrinok> lol - its an ill wind etc...
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[13:47:42] <janrinok> Hi LaminatorX how's things
[13:47:56] <janrinok> ooops, missed the ? there
[13:47:59] <LaminatorX> Pretty good. How about you/
[13:48:18] * LaminatorX missed his Shift-key.
[13:48:27] <janrinok> I'm OK but tired, and S is making slow progress in the right direction, so pretty good all things considered.
[13:48:45] <LaminatorX> Good to hear. You all were in our thoughts.
[13:49:15] <janrinok> thx - I've been keeping track by reading the site but afraid I've not been contributing too much.
[13:50:31] <LaminatorX> I's alright. We all follow our tides as we need to.
[13:51:09] <janrinok> Things seem a bit calmer (well, according to the BBC) in your neck of the woods now.
[13:54:30] <janrinok> LaminatorX: n1: Are you seeing a ':' on the end of submission titles nowadays? And are they meant to be there?
[13:55:25] <LaminatorX> Relatively speaking, but there's a lot going on. The confrontations have receeded somewhat, and protest efforts are begining to re-focus on governmental organs. There have been protests outside or Ferguson at the St. Louis County courthouse, and efforts are putting pressure on the county prosecutor (whose father was a policeman killed on duty by a black man) to recuse himself.
[13:55:49] <n1> janrinok, theyve been happening on and off for a while, it's been discussed before.
[13:56:16] <janrinok> must have missed the previous discussion...
[13:56:58] <n1> not sure if there was any resolution or reason behind it though, it seems to do it more on copy/paste titles (AnonTechie) but i don't see how that can make a difference.
[13:57:25] <janrinok> LaminatorX: ah, so its more a lack of reporting at my end than a reduction in activity at yours. Must seem to be less news-worthy for some reason...?
[13:57:26] <LaminatorX> There is also an effort underway to register more poor/black voters, and to gather enough signatures to recall Ferguson's mayor, a white career-Republican who was formerly a staffer in the Police Department's Communications office.
[13:57:46] <LaminatorX> Less tear-gas does make for fewer headlines, hess.
[13:58:02] <n1> janrinok, the news cycle got bored of it was my conclusion.
[13:58:29] <n1> LaminatorX, i really hope there's a constructive conclusion to the situation, not that I have a clue what that could be.
[14:00:21] <janrinok> n1: I suppose being more open about what happened, and bring those who deserve it to account would be a good start. It still seems - in the reporting that I have seen - to be as much of a blame game as trying to resolve the problem.
[14:00:31] <LaminatorX> If the black folks in North County start voting in higher numbers, in municipal elections, that's a game changer. they generally turn-out for national elections, but aren't engaged in smaller races.
[14:01:11] <n1> I was very disturbed by the number of journalists arrested covering the story.
[14:01:14] <janrinok> LaminatorX: how would that make the police more accountable - if indeed, that is what is wanted or necessary?
[14:01:46] <n1> janrinok, i believe in the US, they vote for their local police commissioner of sorts (?)
[14:02:00] <janrinok> Of course, I had overlooked that point.
[14:02:09] <n1> something they tried to introduce here, which was met with a national 'meh'
[14:02:44] <n1> and i could only agree, the platforms for election of the candidates here were all literally identical, they might have put the words in a slightly different order.
[14:03:10] <janrinok> keep politics out of policing - their job is to serve the community, not an individual who has political motives, IMHO.
[14:04:12] <LaminatorX> Well, to use Ferguson as an example, their Mayor and City Council are almost all whites supported by an old white reactionary constituancy who finds the changing ethnic tide of their city frightening. They are the ones to who administer the local police.
[14:05:17] <LaminatorX> This is possible because the turnout among the white residents in municipal elections is triple that of the black residents.
[14:05:41] <n1> that reminds me of a ex-DEA (i think) officer, who wrote an article making the point "we could make as many arrests in rich, middle class areas - but after day one, the residents make calls to their people in office"
[14:06:08] <n1> people in poor areas do not have the local council and the mayor on speed dial
[14:06:23] <janrinok> LaminatorX: thx - that explained the problem with the voting apathy in local elections.
[14:06:50] <janrinok> brb - 5 mins - time for tea!
[14:06:56] <LaminatorX> Enjoy.
[14:07:29] <n1> LaminatorX, the apathy would probably be similar as to why i find it hard to vote. When the people standing for election talk about anything except what you can identify with.
[14:07:36] <n1> Is my assumption anyway.
[14:11:02] <n1> and i'd imagine works in a similar way to how things work here, as i was told by a PR man for an elected official in a mainstream party "When I asked about getting the views and opinions of the electorate to help form policy, I was told that's not what we're here to do. We have a message, and we need to get that out. We don't need feedback."
[14:11:45] <LaminatorX> Poverty also plays into it. The poor tend to move more often, and are thus less likely to be on the voter rolls. It's also harder to get to the polls when you're working multiple jobs or rely on public transportation.
[14:12:27] <n1> Very true
[14:13:10] <n1> and for the other reasons above, when you have those kind of pressures, it's easy to see why people become apathetic and defeated.
[14:14:56] <n1> The people with less do vote less, apathetic and alienated by the political system. I find it very hard to argue with here, how entrenched the system is.
[14:17:40] <n1> the next national election here will be interesting, although i'm dreading it - we do feel ever closer to burning the bridges
[14:21:21] <LaminatorX> In the big bicture, we're seriously gridlocked in a status quo that's not-so-hot. At the local level though, things can happen. To force a recall vote for Ferguson's mayor for example would only requite 2k signatures.
[14:23:56] <n1> Locally, things do appear easier to change and i really hope this does get people to vote. Got to find someone better as a replacement, which might not be so easy.
[14:24:55] <LaminatorX> Word on the street from last night: https://www.facebook.com
[14:24:56] <monopoly> ^ 03Elizabeth Vega - Last night was relatively peaceful. Keep... | Facebook
[14:26:24] <n1> wow
[14:26:37] <n1> thanks for sharing that
[14:27:19] <janrinok> just reading that link ...
[14:27:20] <n1> I wish i was surprised but it doesn't make it any easier to digest.
[14:28:55] <LaminatorX> Sure. Today is both Mike Brown's funeral and the Feast Day of Saint Louis IX of France. I think there's something to be made of that. Louis famously reconciled feuding factions in France and was a patron of the poor.
[14:28:58] <janrinok> that's quite hard hitting - how do we start to change that?
[14:29:35] <janrinok> sry our posts got out of sync that
[14:29:40] <n1> LaminatorX, that's a good idea.
[14:29:41] <janrinok> s/that/there/
[14:31:01] <n1> janrinok, it's a massive cultural problem which can be seen on different levels with the disadvantaged in most societies. Children brought up by people who feel beaten and abused and they pass that on, teaching their kids the realities in the only way they know.
[14:31:50] <janrinok> n1: true - that is the problem, but the solution seems much harder to pin down, and harder still to effectively execute.
[14:32:54] <n1> that was my point, the problem runs to deep, on all levels of society keeping the status quo.
[14:33:07] <LaminatorX> What's crazy is that it would take a relatively small shift in engagement to turn some of this around. My hope is that some of this rage can translate into effective action rather than only street confrontations. The latter are important, because otherwise the problem remains invisible to those not directly effected by it, but can't solve the problem on their own.
[14:33:16] <n1> You can be rich and break the same laws, when you don't need to because you're rich, and you get away with it. When you're poor, you have to be made an example of.
[14:33:59] <janrinok> makes me want to tear up the current rule book and start again.
[14:34:05] <n1> LaminatorX, couldn't agree more.
[14:35:03] <n1> The 'system' often treats the poor and disadvantaged like children at best, second class citizens at worst and that needs to change.
[14:37:28] <janrinok> LaminatorX: are there any positive signs in Ferguson coming out of the last few weeks?
[14:38:32] <n1> janrinok, that's another problem we face, the media representation forming the wider opinion may not be representative of what's actually happening
[14:39:33] <n1> and thats something that sickens me, how sensationalist and calculated reporting can be, even by established and respected outlets
[14:39:47] <n1> no doubt to drive page views and 'create discussion'
[14:40:20] <janrinok> none of this is cheering me up
[14:40:32] <n1> :(
[14:40:55] <janrinok> I hope that _something_ positive will eventually come out of this
[14:41:16] <n1> So do I.
[14:42:00] <n1> My inner pessimist has a hard time believing it, but I have to ignore that douchebag and try to remain positive and constructive.
[14:42:14] <janrinok> lol - I'm with you
[14:44:06] <n1> think it's about time for lunch
[14:44:27] <janrinok> I'd say lunch is well overdue for you!
[14:44:42] <LaminatorX> Posative thing that's happening is a conversation is now going on across our community about changing thingsm rather than just accepting the BS as normal or having it be out-of-sight-out-of-mind.
[14:45:14] <n1> my dinner is unlikely to be until around 9 or so, need something to get me through until then
[14:45:37] <LaminatorX> People who nowmally don't have a reason to interact are listening to one another.
[14:45:43] <n1> LaminatorX, that is very good, happy to hear that.
[14:45:44] <janrinok> LaminatorX: wish I could offer some tangible support, but I hope that things do work out.
[14:48:33] <LaminatorX> Attention from abroad has been a help in and of itself. The problem can't be ignored in that context. Among the big wake-up calls was when Ferguson residents started getting soc-media messagas from Gaza on how to treat tear-gas exposure and protect against sound weapons.
[14:49:06] <janrinok> that should certainly make some people sit up and think!
[14:55:07] <n1> Lets hope so, although I can imagine ways that kind of thing may be spun later.
[14:55:26] * n1 kicks the pessimist within
[14:58:21] <LaminatorX> The people who would accept that kind of spin weren't going to be any help anyway, sadly.
[15:00:33] <n1> true
[15:00:40] <LaminatorX> One thing I've advocated for in some community meetings with creative types is to strive for more cross-community engagement in day-to-day life. This crap festers in part because our neighberhoods are modtly still segregated, de facto in spite of no longer being de jure.
[15:02:34] <LaminatorX> Live coverage of Brown's funeral: http://www.ksdk.com
[15:02:36] <monopoly> ^ 03KSDK Live Video
[15:03:23] <n1> That would be a very good idea. I don't know about there but, even without de facto segretation, people within the community generally do not engage with each other.
[15:03:43] <n1> Everyone lives in their own little bubble, with their own social circle far removed from their local community.
[15:04:30] <n1> but then that comes down to so many people working multiple jobs with few hours left in the day for anything else
[15:06:50] <LaminatorX> I'm going to try to address this in my musical work. Most club shows are all one style. Let's mix it up. Put hip-hop and folk on the same bill, etc.
[15:07:10] <n1> I have no idea who some of the neighbours are, moved in probably 3 years ago.
[15:07:20] <n1> LaminatorX, i'm down for that!
[15:07:47] <n1> The last festival i was at, on the Sunday, every single artist on the main stage had 'folk' in their description, except one which had 'roots'.
[15:08:28] <n1> I found it extremely tedious and far from engaging, some diversity would have made things much more interesting.
[15:08:42] <LaminatorX> Market segmentation makes sense from a promotional standpoint, but is probably bad for the medium as a whole.
[15:09:27] <n1> It works if you have an even mix with continutity
[15:09:37] <n1> having 5 folk singers on and one rapper, probably isn't going to work very well.
[15:10:42] <LaminatorX> Right, Making somebody a token is rude.
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[15:11:37] <n1> i'm sure there will be some local talent you can work with to make it engaging for the majority
[15:11:55] <LaminatorX> Conversations have begun.
[15:12:23] <LaminatorX> Helps to start with acts that are themselves integrates too.
[15:12:43] <LaminatorX> s/ates/ated
[15:13:15] <n1> let me know how it turns out, as someone into hiphop
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[18:41:56] <janrinok> Anybody online?
[18:49:47] <paulej72> dead air
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