#editorial | Logs for 2014-07-17

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[13:32:12] <janrinok> hi guys
[13:32:21] <xlefay> G'day
[13:35:07] <janrinok> hi xlefay - how's things today?
[13:35:28] <xlefay> So far, so good. How about you?
[13:36:02] <janrinok> good - I've cut the grass, so I don't have to worry about that no more.
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[13:39:13] <janrinok> hi Bytram
[13:41:51] <janrinok> xlefay: what are your plans for today?
[13:42:14] <Bytram> janrinok: g'day!
[13:42:23] <janrinok> hi Bytram - you good?
[13:42:33] <Bytram> I just put up a story on layoffs @ Microsoft...
[13:42:36] <Bytram> yup
[13:42:47] <xlefay> janrinok, haha, the grass :P
[13:43:02] <Bytram> seems like it might spark a bit of conversation. Should we move it up earlier in the day?
[13:43:27] <janrinok> Yeah, I read the new CEO's piece a day or two back. It certainly sounded like they would be shedding staff.
[13:43:46] <xlefay> My general plan is to hang out here for a bit, then, walk the dog, get in touch with some buddies, walk the dog, watch a tv-show, walk the dog - and in between, I've got several excersises and such to complete.
[13:43:47] <Bytram> atm, it looks like you and Azrael are the only ones in the queue ahead of it.
[13:43:51] <xlefay> How about you?
[13:44:01] <janrinok> no Bytram that seems to cover both sides of the Atlantic
[13:44:33] <janrinok> xlefay: is walking the dog also part of your exercise regime?
[13:44:36] <Bytram> oh, sry! Forgot about that.
[13:44:40] <Bytram> :/
[13:45:20] <xlefay> janrinok, my brothers currently staying in the hospital, so someone has to take care of his dog, so, not really part of my excersice regime, but my doctor certainly did like the thought.. doctors ;')
[13:45:28] <janrinok> Az is posting a a great rate - I reckon that he is chasing the next in the HoF list...
[13:45:59] <janrinok> xlefay: I suppose any exercise is good as long as you don't overdo it.
[13:46:15] <xlefay> Indeed. How about you? What are your plans for the day?
[13:46:41] <Bytram> xlefay: good to see ya again!
[13:46:51] <LaminatorX> Hello folks.
[13:46:54] <xlefay> Bytram, and you :) How are ya?
[13:47:23] <LaminatorX> Tired but mostly well, thanks.
[13:47:37] <janrinok> I've finished all my work for the day, its pizza night so there is no cooking for me to do, but I have plenty of stuff to keep me busy. I suppose I will be on here for most of the next 6-7 hours!
[13:47:38] <Bytram> A little knackered, but o/w good.
[13:47:48] <Bytram> !woop
[13:47:48] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[13:47:53] <Bytram> that reminds me...
[13:47:54] <Bytram> !uid
[13:47:54] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4556, owned by zugedneb
[13:47:57] <janrinok> LaminatorX: hi
[13:48:31] <LaminatorX> Hey there.
[13:48:46] <janrinok> Bytram: the uid has stopped climbing, we have a new member every few days or so.
[13:49:00] <janrinok> LaminatorX: did the meeting go well last night?
[13:49:15] <xlefay> Bender's probably broken again
[13:49:30] <Bytram> janrinok: for now... I like to keep an eye on it so I'll notice when the surge hits!
[13:49:32] <LaminatorX> I wasn't able to participate, but from reading the logs it looks like it went well.
[13:49:50] <LaminatorX> It was mostly a followup to last week's business.
[13:50:11] <Bytram> janrinok: it was a little disorganized, but I think it went well, all in all.
[13:50:33] <Bytram> IMNSHO, of course!
[13:50:35] <xlefay> janrinok, cool!
[13:50:44] <janrinok> ok - did you receive the draft policy doc LaminatorX? There appears to have been some problems in transmission. I've resent it in the last half-hour or so.
[13:51:01] <LaminatorX> I'll look.
[13:51:30] <janrinok> I sent it to the SN account - both editorial and in your nick.
[13:52:26] <LaminatorX> I don't seem to have gotten it.
[13:53:05] <janrinok> I'll resend it _again_ to your gmail if you hang on a minute
[13:53:14] <LaminatorX> Will do.
[13:53:36] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[13:53:38] <monopoly> ^ 03Microsoft confirms plans to cut 18,000 jobs in the next year - CNET ( http://www.cnet.com )
[13:55:12] <Azrael> question to those here... when putting articles up should I be going for double the gap between them so others can then interleave articles - to stop having a bunch in a row all from same author?
[13:55:18] <Bytram> hmmm, is that any different from: http://feedproxy.google.com
[13:55:18] <monopoly> ^ 03Satya Nadella's job-cuts memo to Microsoft employees - CNET ( http://www.cnet.com )
[13:55:31] <Bytram> silly google. :/
[13:56:17] <janrinok> Azrael: no, that is not a problem. I try to separate submitters but authors can put a whole load out at once. Sometimes you can be on your own for hours.....
[13:56:43] <janrinok> Azrael: well done on climbing the HoF posting chart!
[13:57:02] <Bytram> Azrael: ^^
[13:57:05] <Bytram> Azrael++
[13:57:05] <Bender> karma - azrael: 1
[13:57:09] <Azrael> *nods* but now for example I could put another 5 up for tomorrow... but I won't so as to have a change of author and stop me having 10 in a row
[13:57:09] <Bytram> Huh?
[13:57:12] <Bytram> Azrael++
[13:57:12] <Bender> karma - azrael: 2
[13:57:12] <Bytram> Azrael++
[13:57:12] <Bender> karma - azrael: 3
[13:57:24] <LaminatorX> I got the message this time, Janrinok.
[13:57:38] <Azrael> but I could put 5 up with huge gaps and then tonight shorten them if noone else has popped up to interleave...
[13:57:47] <janrinok> OK Lam thx.
[13:57:55] <Azrael> janrinok: and thank you :) I'm chasing down Woods
[13:58:24] <janrinok> Az either would work, but I'll bet that sometime, someone will not notice the gap and leave a 12 blank period unfilled!
[13:58:39] <janrinok> 12-hour blank*
[13:58:45] <janrinok> brb 5 mins
[14:02:56] <janrinok> back early
[14:04:09] <LaminatorX> I suggest just queueing them up normally, Azrael. It's just simpler.
[14:04:54] <LaminatorX> If we're spacing stories out because submissions are lean, and then a bunch more come in, feel free to plug gaps at that point though.
[14:05:43] <LaminatorX> Rotating authors is good foem, but not essential.
[14:05:54] <janrinok> Azrael: Your Math and Science Grad story link gives me an AP holding page.
[14:11:01] <janrinok> Azrael: did you see ^^^?
[14:17:09] <janrinok> from the 3D Printer Prosthetic Hands story - "e-Nable is a hype-decentralized online community". What would that be in human-speak?
[14:19:04] <janrinok> If Azrael has gone, I may have to pull his story until I can find a link that works.
[14:19:40] <LaminatorX> It'r probably supposed to be, "hyper-" rather than "hype-"
[14:20:08] <janrinok> Well you're probably correct, but the source story carries the same error!
[14:20:55] <Azrael> I have a link
[14:21:09] <janrinok> ok Az - I'll leave it with you thx
[14:21:43] <Azrael> good spot, thanks, I think I must have broken the link in editing :/
[14:21:52] <janrinok> it happens
[14:22:31] <Azrael> if only we had a second editing process to help find these problems... wait... ;)
[14:22:36] <janrinok> lol
[14:27:02] <Azrael> but loving the number of submissions we're getting :)
[14:27:34] <Azrael> would I be right in imagining that if we put them through more frequently it'd encourage more traffic and more people to submit?
[14:27:50] <janrinok> and quality too - but it will all slow down tomorrow for the weekend slump, if past experience is anything to go by.
[14:28:06] <Azrael> *nods*
[14:28:31] <janrinok> Over 1 per hour reduces the number of comments in any particular thread unless you have many more in the community
[14:28:41] <Azrael> assuming the queue is all good (some perhaps not) then that's nearly 2 full days anyway :D
[14:28:51] <Azrael> janrinok: that's a goodpoint
[14:29:21] <janrinok> so the rates that LaminatorX has worked out have been proven by trial and error for the size of community we have at present. They might need adjusting if we have a sudden surge in membership.
[14:30:32] <Azrael> is there a strategy for drawing in more users? to save me searching, is there an official twitter account with all sotries getting auto posted?
[14:30:47] <janrinok> so it stays roughly at 20+ - 1 per hour, 10-20, 1 per 90 minutes'ish, <0 - every 2 hours and start searching for stories. All figures are approx depending on time of day, year, and shoe size.
[14:31:03] <janrinok> <10* oops
[14:31:19] <Azrael> ahh https://twitter.com yes
[14:31:20] <monopoly> ^ 03SoylentNews (SoylentNews) on Twitter
[14:31:30] <LaminatorX> Yeah, if we had an order of magnitude more traffic and stories, it would also make sense to branch off new nexuses. We would start having code.soylentners.org, techonomics.soylentnews.org, and so on. The best stories from each category would also go to main page.
[14:32:01] * Azrael will aim to try and RT some SN tweets some time :)
[14:32:49] <LaminatorX> There hasn't really been any marketing or promotion done while we've been in our half-baked state.
[14:33:27] <LaminatorX> Now that we're "official" and are getting set up for revenue streams, that will likely change.
[14:34:45] <Azrael> :)
[14:34:50] <LaminatorX> Confirming the name was cause for delaying PR as well.
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[15:23:55] <Bytram|afk> http://feeds.arstechnica.com
[15:23:56] <monopoly> ^ 03With many-worlds, all quantum mechanics is local | Ars Technica ( http://arstechnica.com )
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[15:51:41] <janrinok|afk> hi mrcoolbp
[15:51:57] <mrcoolbp> hi janrinok|afk
[15:52:09] * mrcoolbp is waking up, he overslept a bit
[15:52:14] <janrinok|afk> did you receive rev 3 of the Policy Doc?
[15:52:17] <mrcoolbp> yes
[15:52:20] <janrinok|afk> ok thx
[15:52:26] <mrcoolbp> i have not reviewed, need coffee food
[15:52:41] <janrinok|afk> some did - some didn't. I was just checking if you had a copy.
[15:52:51] <janrinok|afk> enjoy your coffee!
[15:53:24] <mrcoolbp> janrinok thanks, I'll be drinking it out of this: http://i.imgur.com
[15:53:27] <mrcoolbp> = )
[15:54:12] * janrinok|afk wonders if they have the same design for tea...?
[15:54:22] <janrinok|afk> gtg back later :)
[15:58:14] <mrcoolbp> later janrinok
[15:58:24] <mrcoolbp> I can look into a tea++ mug if you want
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[17:34:55] <mattie_p> Azrael, you on right now?
[17:35:03] <mattie_p> tea--
[17:35:03] <Bender> karma - tea: -1
[17:39:51] <Azrael> mattie_p: I am
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[17:42:58] <janrinoki> so am I now
[17:43:30] <janrinoki> tea++
[17:43:30] <Bender> karma - tea: 0
[17:46:02] <mattie_p> coffee++
[17:46:02] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4
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[17:48:06] <SoyGuest7764> ooooh
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[17:48:54] <BlackHole> janrinok, hi! how are you?
[17:49:20] <janrinok> hi BlackHole - did you get your copy of rev 3 of the Policy doc? appears to be some email problems.
[17:49:32] <BlackHole> i got it both times :)
[17:49:37] <BlackHole> it's really looking good.
[17:49:43] janrinok is now known as SoyGuest87117
[17:49:47] <SoyGuest87117> lol - you probably got someone else's copy then
[17:49:55] <SoyGuest87117> xlefay: thgx
[17:50:19] <SoyGuest87117> oooh - my name has been taken away from me....!
[17:51:30] <BlackHole> SoyGuest87117, I spruced up the wiki for the board meetings: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[17:51:36] <monopoly> ^ 04Wiki: 03SoylentNews PBC Board of Directors: The Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC (the "Corporation") has general responsibility for the Corporation. The Board derives its powers from the Bylaws of the Corporation, Ar...
[17:51:55] <BlackHole> now there is a page for anyone to insert issues that they would like to see raised at the next meeting :)
[17:51:57] <SoyGuest87117> thx - I'll take a look in a few minutes.
[17:53:21] <SoyGuest87117> BlackHole: is there agreement yet on which posts exist on the Board, or is that still being decided?
[17:54:21] <BlackHole> SoyGuest87117, well, we raised the issue of electing additional directors at yesterday's meeting, but it seemed that most people agreed it would be a bad idea to expand it too quickly. so, still being decided, i think.
[17:54:32] <SoyGuest87117> OK thx
[17:54:34] <BlackHole> but, feel free to add that as an issue to be raised on the wiki :D
[17:54:47] <SoyGuest87117> lol - I just might do...
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[18:21:11] <janrinok_> hi LaminatorX - I've just put a breaking news item out
[18:21:31] <LaminatorX> OOhh, airplaine?
[18:21:47] <janrinok_> poss shot down by missile - but unconfirmed officially
[18:22:08] <janrinok_> Malaysian Airlines flying over Ukraine
[18:24:08] <LaminatorX> Looks good. Man that's rough. Somebody's itchy trigger finger on a hostile border and now 300 dead. :(
[18:25:04] <LaminatorX> We've got yellow pillars all over the Big Board here in the office from all the news networks pre-empting commercial breaks.
[18:25:19] <janrinok_> Yep - but both sides denying like mad that they did it.
[18:26:40] <LaminatorX> Still here, BlackHole?
[18:27:44] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, yep.
[18:28:03] <janrinok_> More airlines announcing that they will now avoid airspace in that region
[18:28:40] * BlackHole was just reading NC's comment on that story.
[18:31:10] <LaminatorX> I've looked over the meeting logs and the policy draft Janrinok and. Looking good. I'm of the opinion that EiC should not be a Board Member, but should be an Officer of the Company.
[18:32:39] <LaminatorX> Hmm, train of thought derailed mid-sentance there.
[18:33:21] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, that makes sense to me. From the bylaws, "The officers of the Corporation shall consist of [...] and such other officers [...] as the Board of Directors may determine. Also,
[18:33:27] <xlefay> soyguest87117?
[18:33:36] <BlackHole> Subject to these Bylaws, each officer of the Corporation shall have in addition to the duties and powers specifically set forth in these Bylaws, such duties and powers as are customarily incident to his office, and such duties and powers as may be designated from time to time by the Board of Directors.
[18:33:48] <xlefay> aah, that was janrinok_ :) nvm
[18:34:01] <janrinok_> xlefay: well _somebody_ changed my name, not once, but twice ?:)
[18:34:16] <xlefay> janrinok_, then you didn't identify to nickserv quick enough
[18:34:31] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, I agree that the policy draft is looking very good, as well.
[18:34:34] <xlefay> Nicknames are protected, and people's nicks will be changed, unless identified to nickserv, within a minute or so
[18:35:02] <janrinok_> its not happened before - I'll watch out for it, xlefay
[18:35:47] <LaminatorX> There are many "in writing" references. There should be a specified electronic notification option as well.
[18:35:51] <janrinok_> BlackHole: LaminatorX: I've already rewritten some paras of the Editorial Policy - I was a bit too wordy!
[18:37:04] <xlefay> janrinok_, could you /join #help for a sec, I've got a question or so for you, but don't want to interupt the conversation flow here :)
[18:37:16] <LaminatorX> I don't know that it's too wordy, there's just a lot more detail there since an Editor is writing it. Consision and verbosity chould both be subservient to clarity.
[18:39:13] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, janrinok, perhaps, instead of requiring that "EiC's reasons for his actions must be conveyed to the Board..." and "The Boards (sic) concurrence or otherwise [...] must also be given in writing to the affected", a more streamlined approach could be to simply allow the affected editor to appeal to the Board, if he wishes.
[18:39:49] <BlackHole> if there is no appeal, case closed.
[18:42:09] <LaminatorX> I agree. What does need to be specified is who is responsible for things like changing priviledges. I'm so accustomed to helpful admins chiming in and taking care of it before I even have to ask, that I'm not sure who the goto person _should_ be.
[18:44:53] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, would that be a member of the "sysops" team? Perhaps something like: "the EiC may request from any member of the sysops team that priviledges be granted or revoked to any editor".
[18:45:29] <BlackHole> and, "the sysops team will only grant or revoke priviledges from an editor when requested to do so by the EiC."
[18:45:40] <janrinok_> BlackHole: Noted - I'll draft something up. LaminatorX: I couldn't agree more - I'm hoping that posts will be nominated for lots of the inter-team chat e.g. reporting spam, changing privs etc.
[18:46:14] <LaminatorX> Sounds reasonable. Something Staff will need to discuss is an abuse responnse policy. The moderation system will take care of a lot, but sooner or later we'll get somebody crap-flodding as AC or harassing another user across multiple discussions.
[18:47:25] <xlefay> Not to interupt, but a while ago I was discussing such a matter not sure with whom, but, the general motion was that, when someone needs privileges or so, they should ask their team leader to request it on their behalf, via the mailing list or so. But I'm not sure if that's still the case, I've been away for a bit, but - that was the general setting back then (although, it wasn't being enforced in the least)
[18:48:08] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, that is indeed a tricky issue. Perhaps it would be a good idea to define several levels of response (level 1: sternly worded email, etc.). Also, different levels would require different levels of approval, from editor to EiC to Team Leader group, etc.?
[18:48:42] <BlackHole> the idea being that the more serious the action/response, the broader the consensus needed to carry it out.
[18:49:49] <LaminatorX> We of course can sternly word emails to an AC in most cases, though some may be obvious. I agree with the principle though.
[18:50:40] <BlackHole> ah, *can't. took me a while to parse that :)
[18:51:21] <LaminatorX> Sorry, yeah. Check how rpg.net handles infractions: http://forum.rpg.net
[18:51:27] <monopoly> ^ 03403 FORBIDDEN : LOGGED BY forum.rpg.net
[18:51:54] <LaminatorX> Hmm. I guess you have to be logged in.
[18:52:00] <xlefay> nope
[18:52:14] <xlefay> it probably just blocked monopoly due it's user agent. - anti bot protection
[18:52:32] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, wow, they seem to have a pretty detailed system.
[18:52:34] <LaminatorX> Ah. See, they run a tight ship over their.
[18:52:41] <LaminatorX> "there"
[18:53:04] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, xlefay, would it be possible to institute a 3-day ban on an AC based on their IP?
[18:53:35] <xlefay> I don't believe so. And even if we could technically do it, it's unlikely, we could actually do it effectively considering our user base.
[18:53:39] <LaminatorX> They have a much more restrictive culture WRT accepable post content than we do, but we can definitely learn from the wheels they've invented.
[18:54:03] <xlefay> Then again, I think, we should keep in mind, our moderation system is pretty good at balancing things
[18:54:20] <BlackHole> xlefay, oh, i see. so, it seems like we will have to rely heavily on our moderation system.
[18:55:11] <LaminatorX> Right. They don't have anything like that there, so they police posts much more heavily.
[18:55:18] <xlefay> BlackHole, it's fairly difficult to ban someone, especially since we have so many services; and people can change IPs so easily, e.g. use proxies/vpns, etc.. So yes, for the main site, moderation system is the best we've got.
[18:55:40] <xlefay> As for other services.. it's tough, to say the least.
[18:55:44] <BlackHole> understood.
[18:56:23] <LaminatorX> The existance of crowbars doesn't make locking your door worthless though.
[18:56:33] <BlackHole> of course, it's probably for the best for several reasons for the community to police itself.
[18:57:03] <LaminatorX> I'm imagine that being sufficient in most cases as well.
[18:57:18] <xlefay> LaminatorX, true. But in the case of the main site, AC's post by default with a score of 0? Which is already fairly low and people are quick to mod them down or up, depending on the quality and content of said comment
[18:57:51] <xlefay> If it really needs to happen, then yes, we could ban someone. It just probably won't be effective for the majority of our users. That's what I'm trying to convey :)
[18:58:49] <LaminatorX> Understood. I've got a meeting. Back in a bit.
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[18:59:05] <janrinok_> bbl - 1 hour
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[18:59:25] <BlackHole> i'm going to grab some lunch :)
[18:59:30] <xlefay> (but, in such a case that we need to ban someone, it's safe to assume it's serious in the sense, unlawful, at least, I'm guessing we don't have a low treshold for banning and the likes)
[18:59:31] BlackHole is now known as BlackHole|afk
[19:00:28] <mattie_p> I think the only bans have been for spamming, and were all ACs, IIRC
[19:01:29] <xlefay> Yes, NCommander and I discussed using DNSBL's in the past (instead of the stupid proxy scan, which we already disabled), but not sure if anything every came from that.
[19:01:48] <NCommander> xlefay, not really :-/
[19:02:09] <NCommander> The only bans applied are to the hanldes of the slashdot editors, and a bunch of ACs for mass spamming
[19:02:24] <xlefay> Essentially, the thought was, a DNSBL lookup, if the visitor is registered as a spammer, you could present them a "challenge", a puzzle or something for them to complete, before they can access the website - which will at least, stop spambots - and will make it very unuseful to regular spammers.
[19:02:29] <xlefay> or least, that's what I was thinking
[19:03:19] * xlefay just stole an idea from ubuntu.com...
[19:03:54] <xlefay> NCommander, I see. Anyway, it's still a good idea?
[19:04:15] <xlefay> We can write an RFC for it, and see where we go. (isn't that an idea, writing RFCs for new features and the likes?)
[19:04:38] <NCommander> xlefay, probably not a bad idea
[19:05:39] <xlefay> A small document, that outlines in a certain format, what kind of feature someone is requesting, what it should do and how, etc.. and allow people to comment, improve, etc.. It'd be cool, if we could do something like that.
[19:05:55] <xlefay> damn my mind is flowing with ideas tonight....
[19:12:58] LaminatorX|afk is now known as LaminatorX
[20:02:24] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[20:03:24] janrinok is now known as SoyGuest37921
[20:04:58] SoyGuest37921 is now known as janrinok_
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[21:05:32] <xlefay> janrinok_, heads up: http://sylnt.us one of the links is missing http:// in the beginning
[21:05:34] <monopoly> ^ 04SN article 03 UK Police Arrest 660 Suspected Pedophiles after Online Operation 04(1 comments): ( http://soylentnews.org )
[21:06:28] <xlefay> (or any other editors, if any is present, Azrael ?)
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[21:31:09] <Azrael> yoyo
[21:31:42] <Azrael> done
[21:31:50] <mattie_p> good, I was just about to jump in
[21:32:06] <paulej72> zizban does not have an account registered here yet so if someone sees him we need to get hem to register his nick here.
[21:34:06] <Azrael> damnit the link seems changed but then doesn't look changed??
[21:34:23] <Azrael> can someone else look for me?
[21:35:20] <Azrael> ok, now it does look changed
[21:35:24] <Azrael> some weird caching for me I guess
[21:46:48] <paulej72> Just a note on bans that I have done recently. I have just set them to spammers. which prevents them from posting and submitting stories and I make sure all of the activity from the IPID is from a spamming source before doing it.
[21:48:06] <paulej72> Azrael: if you change a story, slash will have a cache copy for an indetermnate time that it will hand out to some people ( you may or may not see the change immediatley)
[21:48:44] <paulej72> Once a the cached copy expires (usually within 5 minutes) everyone will see the update
[22:12:19] <Azrael> paulej72: ahhhh so I am NOT going nuts!!!
[22:13:21] <paulej72> someone should have told you this earlier, now you know :)
[22:13:43] <paulej72> there should have ben a but after that comma
[22:19:43] <Azrael> :D
[22:38:58] -!- monopoly has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[22:45:23] <Azrael> can someone double check for me that http://soylentnews.org isn't a dupe of http://soylentnews.org