#editorial | Logs for 2014-07-16

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[12:41:43] <Bytram|away> https://plus.google.com
[12:41:46] <monopoly> ^ 03When we launched Google+ over three years ago, we had a lot of restrictions on… ( https://plus.google.com )
[12:42:10] <Bytram|away> hrrrm, no better-looking link? Oh well! Thanks, monopoly!
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[12:50:40] <janrinok> hi guys
[12:51:10] <Bytram|away> janrinok: Hi! I only had a couple minutes, but I pushed a stor into the queue; needs a review.
[12:51:22] <janrinok> Bytram|away: just checking it now!
[12:51:35] <janrinok> done
[12:51:50] <janrinok> although the Dept was a little cryptic for me....:)
[12:58:28] <Bytram|away> yeah, but I thought why not have a little fun. did you understand it? feel free to change, k?
[12:58:50] <janrinok> np - it stays!
[13:00:05] <Bytram|away> rlly? You like it??????
[13:00:52] <janrinok> you might get a few queries about it - but we never make everyone happy!
[13:02:58] <Bytram|away> I've seen that techies like puzzles; thot that be worth a try
[13:04:30] <Bytram|away> can't chat; got a PM going with xlefay
[13:04:52] <janrinok> give him my best - cu later I guess!
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[13:09:11] <janrinok> hi xlefay !
[13:09:17] <xlefay> janrinok, !
[13:09:20] <xlefay> Hi, how's you?
[13:09:34] <janrinok> how are you? you've been missing for quite a while!
[13:10:54] <janrinok> I'm OK but its been a difficult time for a few weeks. I'll explain another time unless you want to sit here for 30 minutes while I go through it all!
[13:12:53] <xlefay> I've had, and still have, some serious health issues. I dissappeared (not out of free choice, I might add), because of them, my life had gotten rather complicated and it was rather difficult getting access to the computer, and such.
[13:13:10] <xlefay> I'm OK at the moment though. I've missed you and the others too!
[13:13:22] <xlefay> Difficult time? I've got time to hear it, if you wish to speak about it. :)
[13:13:33] <janrinok> Sorry to hear that - I hope that you are getting better if you haven't already made a full recovery.
[13:14:21] <xlefay> That'll take several years, unfortunately. How about you?
[13:16:28] <janrinok> The very short version: Well, Soph's condition has continued to deteriorate - as we expected it would - and a few weeks ago she was told that, if she did not have some fairly major surgery, then the outlook might be quite bleak. There is, of course, a risk associated with any surgery, and there are some fairly serious downsides with what is being proposed. In addition, it is a point of no return - it is a clear sign that she cannot re
[13:18:08] <xlefay> Wow, my connection just died. Sorry
[13:18:12] <xlefay> <xlefay> That'll take several years, unfortunately. How about you?
[13:18:12] <xlefay> * Disconnected ()
[13:18:15] <xlefay> Did I miss anything?
[13:18:56] <janrinok> So, having had a few weeks of low morale to think about things and having made the mental decision to go ahead, it is now a case of having a series of medical appoinments and tests to discover the best way to go about it. It is quite stressful and very tiring. Difficult times ahead - but the support that I/we have received from this channel has been very encouraging and most beneficial.
[13:19:38] <janrinok> The very short version: Well, Soph's condition has continued to deteriorate - as we expected it would - and a few weeks ago she was told that, if she did not have some fairly major surgery, then the outlook might be quite bleak. There is, of course, a risk associated with any surgery, and there are some fairly serious downsides with what is being proposed.
[13:19:43] <janrinok> In additin, it is a point of no retur n - it is a clear sign that she cannot recover her health in the future and, naturally, this has had an effect on her.
[13:20:44] <janrinok> you've now got them in reverse order - but all of the important info is there!
[13:22:03] <xlefay> Wow buddy, that's hard.
[13:23:12] <janrinok> we take each day as it comes - and like yourself, it will be a long time until we will see all the benefits of the treament. But for us, at least, it is a one-way street.
[13:23:33] <xlefay> janrinok, I truly hope, the both of you will get through this the best possible way.
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[13:23:54] <janrinok> thx xlefay - that's appreciated
[13:24:14] <janrinok> But again, welcome back - we've missed you.
[13:24:21] <xlefay> It's important to take things one day at a time, it'll help keep you focussed; and don't let things beat you down. Almost always, there's hope and you gotta cling onto that and hold on.
[13:24:48] <xlefay> With good thoughts, and good energy, most things will go well. Again, I truly hope everything will go well for the both of you.
[13:25:13] <janrinok> Has the site changed much while you've been away?
[13:26:12] <xlefay> Thank you. And I haven't really noticed, I haven't really been keeping up either.
[13:27:39] <janrinok> don't blame you - but we're incorporated now - much work by various team members behind that as you can imagine.
[13:28:04] <xlefay> Yeah, I have a lot of catching up to do!
[13:28:14] <xlefay> I'm sorry I couldn't be a part of that.
[13:29:40] <janrinok> I'm glad that somebody did the task - it didn't appeal to me and, to be fair, there is not much we can do from Europe as it is very much tied to the place of incorporation.
[13:30:04] <xlefay> That's true
[13:32:30] <janrinok> When did you get back on the site?
[13:32:50] <xlefay> I hear, we have a meeting later today, 1am our time, I'm trying to see if I can attend. It'll be a nice way to ease back in slowly.
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[13:33:26] <xlefay> Well, I haven't really visited the site lately, but I've been in contact with staff members everyonce in a while. Last week, I helped paulej with some IRC related things, and currently am continueing to do so
[13:33:27] <janrinok> Yes, there should be some good news to discuss for a change. Hi Mattiep
[13:33:34] <xlefay> mattie_p, !
[13:34:01] <janrinok> xlefay: Mattiep has moved house since you were last here, I think...
[13:34:21] <xlefay> How's his daughter? She recover oke?
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[13:35:23] <janrinok> he seems to have gone - yes, she made a good recovery.
[13:35:43] <xlefay> I'm glad to hear that! Why did he move? New job?
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[13:37:12] <janrinok> To be honest, I think it was more to find work than anything else, but I'm not 100% certain on that. He has moved to the NE of the US - quite a few thousand kilometers over 4 days.
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[13:40:04] <xlefay> NE?
[13:42:00] <janrinok> Yes - although not that close to mrcoolbp or NCommander.
[13:42:19] <xlefay> Sorry, I'm not sure what NE is, is it Nebraska?
[13:42:26] <janrinok> North East
[13:42:29] <xlefay> oh
[13:45:36] <xlefay> I see
[13:47:12] <janrinok> I'm trying to decide if it is going to rain or not - there are some dark clouds but it has been like that for several days. Still quite warm (24 degs C) and humid.
[13:48:32] <xlefay> It's pretty shiny here, 22C according to our lovely exec bot
[13:50:04] <janrinok> If it stays dry I'll have to go and cut the grass - but if it rains I can use that as an excuse to put the job off until another day!
[13:50:51] <xlefay> Haha, that's the janrinok I know!
[13:51:45] <janrinok> exactly - I've got plenty of important editing to do, stories to read, comments to moderate, I haven't got time today to cut the grass.... ;)
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[13:52:22] <xlefay> haha, janrinok I've missed your humor!
[13:52:29] <xlefay> It's great to talk to you again :)
[13:52:34] <janrinok> and to you
[13:52:41] <xlefay> but the question remains.. "Is it you?"
[13:52:58] <janrinok> well I've still got the spade with your name on it...
[13:53:07] <xlefay> Ok. It's you!
[13:53:12] <janrinok> rofl
[13:53:31] <xlefay> haha ;)
[13:56:03] <xlefay> Give my best to Soph, will ya? :)
[13:56:19] <janrinok> of course, thx very much.
[13:57:39] <janrinok> and you take care of yourself too - I'm hoping for lots of fun times on IRC from now on!
[13:58:12] <xlefay> I will; fortunately, I'm not alone. I've got a great mum & great support so ;)
[13:58:40] <janrinok> good - I'm sure she will look after you - and you have our support too.
[13:59:02] <xlefay> Thanks, I appreciate it. And you & soph have ours, of course
[13:59:13] <xlefay> I really can't believe how much I've missed you guys hah
[13:59:41] <janrinok> the site was incomplete while you were away )
[14:00:21] <xlefay> aww, I'm a fully grown man, don't make me cry now!
[14:00:32] <janrinok> lol
[14:01:02] <janrinok> brb 5 mins - time for a cup of tea!
[14:01:20] <xlefay> alrighty, enjoy!
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[14:26:39] <janrinok> Ah the sun has come out - but now its too late to cut the grass anyway!
[14:27:16] <xlefay> haha nice!
[14:27:26] <janrinok> its all a matter of timing...
[14:29:02] <janrinok> Azrael: you are posting a quite a rate - I can almost feel your breath on my back...!
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[14:29:17] <janrinok> hi BlackHole - how's things?
[14:29:42] <BlackHole> janrinok, hi!
[14:30:09] <BlackHole> things are good, and busy.
[14:30:09] <janrinok> did mrcoolbp send you the draft of the policy doc?
[14:30:26] <BlackHole> not yet, i think he has been crushed under the weight of his todo list :)
[14:30:39] <janrinok> I have a copy here if you want it?
[14:30:49] <BlackHole> xlefay, welcome back!
[14:30:54] <xlefay> Thanks!
[14:30:58] <xlefay> BlackHole, is?
[14:31:05] <xlefay> mrcoolbp?
[14:31:05] <BlackHole> janrinonk, sure, if you want to email it to matt at soylentnews.org :)
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[14:31:14] <xlefay> aah, matt
[14:31:14] <janrinok> 2 mins
[14:31:14] <matt_> it's me
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[14:31:22] <BlackHole> =)
[14:34:35] <janrinok> BlackHole: it's on its way
[14:34:48] <xlefay> janrinok, ya sending a BlackHole to someone? That's not very nice of you.
[14:35:01] <BlackHole> janrinok, thanks!
[14:35:27] <janrinok> BlackHole likes black holes - he'll be quite happy with it!
[14:36:08] <xlefay> !grab janrinok
[14:36:09] <Bender> Added quote 12
[14:36:26] <janrinok> oh I forgot - xlefay is back...
[14:36:32] <xlefay> !grab janrinok
[14:36:32] <Bender> Added quote 13
[14:36:35] <xlefay> Thank you, thank you.
[14:36:48] <janrinok> you didn't waste much time, did you?
[14:37:02] <xlefay> How could I let go of such an attractive target?
[14:37:24] <janrinok> lol - damn - I've missed this banter
[14:37:32] <xlefay> haha :)
[14:37:43] <xlefay> I gotta walk the dog, I'll try to check in later
[14:38:00] <janrinok> take care - cu l8r
[14:38:10] <xlefay> Take care guys, you be good now.
[14:38:17] <BlackHole> xlefay, see you!
[14:38:19] <xlefay> No sendin' dem black holes to people, k?
[14:38:25] <xlefay> you too, sir. BlackHole!
[14:38:29] <janrinok> no - promise
[14:38:36] <xlefay> ha
[14:38:54] * janrinok looks for his favourite spade...
[14:40:28] * xlefay looks dangerously at janrinok while he leaves
[14:40:51] <janrinok> BlackHole: I use the term 'Board' but I think that there should be another layer of day-to-day operational management between the Board and the crowd of volunteers.
[14:41:01] * BlackHole is reading now...
[14:44:51] <BlackHole> janrinok, this is quite good. i think you're right that another level of operational management would make sense. the Board really just needs to handle issues that could have legal consequences, etc., and also establish the basic framework of authority, etc.
[14:45:01] <janrinok> agreed
[14:45:07] <BlackHole> for example, i think that it would make sense for there to be an "Editorial Board"
[14:45:33] <janrinok> I was thinking more of the Team Leader level?
[14:46:54] <janrinok> none of the teams should/can operate in isolation so the Team Leaders have to communicate when necessary to coordinate what is best for the site. I'm not sure what an editorial board would be responsible for.
[14:47:34] <janrinok> and with 7 active editors, how many of them would be on the board?
[14:47:43] <BlackHole> i guess i was thinking that the staff would come together in some way, without requiring the formality of a board meeting, etc.
[14:48:07] <BlackHole> for example, this evening we're having a board meeting, but I think that a lot of people may think that it is a staff meeting :/
[14:48:21] <janrinok> agreed. within the editorial team - we do resolve issues and discuss procedures.
[14:48:44] <janrinok> but who is directly above the EiC - who does he report to?
[14:49:00] <janrinok> who selects the EiC?
[14:49:02] <BlackHole> yes, you guys certainly seem to have it together ;) all the more reason to use the editorial team as the test case.
[14:49:14] <BlackHole> The EiC could be appointed by the board or...
[14:49:21] <janrinok> lol
[14:49:32] <BlackHole> could be appointed by the President, with the advice and consent of the Board, just like a Cabinet position in the US
[14:49:49] <janrinok> then it comes back to problems having to be resolved at Board level if we cannot do it in house.
[14:50:13] <BlackHole> well, i only mean that the board would appoint (and remove if necessary) the EiC
[14:50:26] <BlackHole> but, there could also be in the policy manual the procedure for dealing with disputes.
[14:50:27] <janrinok> I was thinking of a day-to-day management thing - or am I on the wrong track?
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[14:50:42] <BlackHole> Lam suggested a group of 3 senior eds that could overrule him, for example
[14:51:11] <janrinok> I think I included that - or at least I thought that I had....
[14:52:25] * BlackHole is not finding it, but may be overlooking it...
[14:52:31] <janrinok> I suppose I sort of merged it into the 2nd para of Chain of Command. But I think that you are right - it needs spelling out more clearly, but you then need to establish 'senior editors'.
[14:53:19] <BlackHole> yep. i do definitely like your language about seeking ways to resolve any dispute before taking a more formal action.
[14:54:04] <janrinok> Formal action should rarely, if ever, be required.
[14:54:18] <BlackHole> indeed.
[14:55:03] <BlackHole> it would be good, i think, to have an explanation of the authority granted to staff.
[14:55:31] <janrinok> with regard to?
[14:55:42] <BlackHole> in other words, it seems like most things site-related could be decided by a majority vote of the staff (not the board)?
[14:55:59] <BlackHole> reserving board decisions for legal/business matters, etc.
[14:56:26] <BlackHole> i guess what i would like to try to avoid, if possible, is just electing all of the staff to the board...
[14:56:49] <janrinok> yes. Within the team first, then the staff, and finally the Board. But the staff level sounds unweildy for some things. Do we really want to involve all staff in the resolution of an issue that arises in 1 team?
[14:56:50] <BlackHole> since that could make it harder to reach decisions (and schedule meetings!)
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[14:57:50] <janrinok> I would suggest that Team Leaders assume a level of responsibility above that of other staff, but below the Board, for day-to-day issues.
[14:57:57] <BlackHole> right, so it's team first, with a lot of authority granted to the Team Leader, but the staff for things that are more site-wide? and/or for appealing decisions of the Team Leaders, then finally to the Board?
[14:59:04] <janrinok> do you want to run this by others to get a different point of view?
[15:00:12] <BlackHole> always. perhaps the best way to do this would be to integrate this a little more into the policy manual, and then circulate it to staff? While the Board should probably vote on adopting the policy manual, we certainly want the staff to be on board with anything in it.
[15:00:17] <janrinok> or would you like me to draft something that covers my ideas, and then put it out to be discussed by a wider forum?
[15:01:02] <BlackHole> i know that the policy manual needs several other sections (account and password management, process for becoming/leaving staff, etc.)
[15:01:56] <janrinok> I suspect that, if we get one team's policy doc written, then the general headings will stay pretty much the same, but the detail will change.
[15:02:16] <BlackHole> that sounds plausible :)
[15:03:17] <janrinok> If we can present the other teams with a template - it might make their job easier, and also encourage them to actually do it - they will have the prompts in front of them.
[15:04:09] <BlackHole> that's a really good idea. why don't we focus, then, on getting the editorial section as complete and polished as possible before using it as a template for the other teams.
[15:06:00] <janrinok> For me to go forward, I need to know who the EiC answers to (I'm suggesting a 'Team-Leader' level group) because that who where unresolvable disputes are referred, they will be responsible for granting/removing access permissions etc.
[15:06:27] <janrinok> that is who/where*
[15:07:20] <janrinok> These are essential actions that effect the Editorial Team, but cannot be conducted by any team member.
[15:08:02] <BlackHole> oh, i see. so there will be a separate Team Leader group. that makes sense, and will make it easier to get to a decision than requiring a vote of all staff. would anything require a vote of all staff or are you thinking that appeal from the Team Leader group would be just to the board? (i think that makes sense)
[15:09:04] <janrinok> the latter. Things that require all staff to decide are unlikely to arise from strictly editorial matters - we can resolve them ourselves.
[15:10:25] <janrinok> But several issues cross many team boundaries e.g. security, rogue commenters etc
[15:10:47] <BlackHole> so, just to make sure i understand, the Team Leader group comprises the EiC, head of dev, head of sysops, head of community support, head of IRC, etc.?
[15:10:48] <paulej72> irc staff policy do not feed Kobach after midnight.
[15:11:01] <janrinok> lol hi paulej72
[15:11:08] <paulej72> hello all
[15:11:23] <BlackHole> paulej72, hi!
[15:11:40] <paulej72> I have forceflly added myself to the irc ops team :)
[15:11:48] <janrinok> BlackHole: yes - they each manage their own team, and keep the whole ball rolling in the right direction. The Board are much higher and not involved/interested at this level.
[15:13:04] <janrinok> I'm going to have to change TZ. Every time I get involved in a interesting discussion, something in the real world comes along to interrupt it!
[15:13:17] <janrinok> I've got about 10 minutes max.
[15:14:06] <BlackHole> janrinok, i think that all sounds great. do you want to revise the policy document with these concepts? of course, there is plenty left to do on that, so we certainly won't be taking a vote on it at tonights meeting or anything.
[15:14:23] <BlackHole> speeking of meetings, i've got on in about 30 min, myself :)
[15:14:34] <janrinok> OK, I'll try to bash something together over the next 24-48 hours.
[15:15:06] <BlackHole> nice!
[15:15:21] <BlackHole> let me know if there is anything that i can do to help.
[15:15:49] <janrinok> who do you want on the distribution for the time being? yourself, LamX (as it is his team), anyone else yet?
[15:15:59] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: of course
[15:16:03] <BlackHole> mrcoolbp and NC
[15:16:29] <janrinok> OK, I do that and push it out via email for discussion / destruction.
[15:17:20] <BlackHole> yeah, it may get revised quite a bit before it is finally adopted, but if so, i think that's a very good sign that people are at least interested :)
[15:17:51] <janrinok> I don't mind people pulling it to bits - I'm used to that. It all leads to progress in the end.
[15:18:06] <janrinok> anything else before I go?
[15:19:09] <BlackHole> i think that covers it. i'm not sure if you can make tonights meeting, so let me know if there is anything that you would like brought up. (it will basically focus on finishing the formal corp. stuff, etc.)
[15:19:43] <BlackHole> time zones are very confusing to me, so i'll just say that is in approx. 7.5 hours :)
[15:19:54] <janrinok> I'll be fast asleep I hope - but I have nothing in particular other than please pass my thanks to all who made the incorporation possible.
[15:20:04] <BlackHole> will do =)
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[17:31:30] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: are you still here?
[18:17:28] juggs|afk is now known as juggs
[18:31:45] <janrinok> hi juggs
[18:32:04] <juggs> hey janrinok - you OK?
[18:32:14] <janrinok> yeah good - i think!
[18:32:28] <janrinok> how about you?
[18:32:44] <juggs> not sure, just woke up :/
[18:33:04] <janrinok> lol - take it easy and enjoy the morning...
[18:34:10] <juggs> I'm never really properly concious until I get past the second cuppa tea :D
[18:34:33] <janrinok> ah, another tea fan...
[18:34:54] <juggs> for sure
[18:35:19] <janrinok> what does the day hold for you?
[18:37:17] <juggs> countless job applications most likely... and tea... other than that I'm not sure
[18:38:31] <janrinok> well, I hope that today is the day that one of your job applications is accepted! May your tea be hot, may your applications find favour, and I hope that you enjoy your day :)
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[18:41:59] <juggs> ty
[18:43:19] <janrinok> Apart from hopefully being uplifting, I suspect that my best wishes as stated above are about as much use a a chocolate tea pot - but they were well-intentioned.
[18:43:41] <janrinok> as a*
[18:44:22] <juggs> you never know, they cheer me up anyway - so that's good :D
[18:45:43] <janrinok> I've not had chance to start work on that bot - I've managed to get myself involved with the drafting of the 'Policy Document'. It is not as much fun but at least it contributes to the site.
[18:46:27] <juggs> That sounds like it could be a time eater
[18:47:47] <janrinok> yep - it's OK until it gets to the draft discussion and _then_ it gets very time consuming while full stops are moved, paragraphs re-written, and everybody makes their mark upon the said document.
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[18:54:08] <janrinok> Bender/jsp-44 seems to be having fun....
[18:55:13] <juggs> paulej72 and xlefay are performing surgery on him I think :D
[18:55:59] <janrinok> I hope he pulls through....
[18:56:42] <janrinok> As you typed that - the theme tune from MASH was playing on my wife's TV! Spooky
[18:57:06] <juggs> Bizarre!
[18:57:54] <janrinok> although linking Bender to MASH might be appropriate somehow...
[18:58:39] <janrinok> brb - time for a cup of tea
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[19:46:54] <mrcoolbp_> janrinok: I'm at work, wassup?
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[20:04:46] <janrinok> Hi, I'm just about to push out a another rev of the policy doc. Had a good discussion with blackhole earlier on.
[20:17:12] <janrinok> bye guys. cu tomorrow
[20:17:18] <xlefay> take care janrinok, ciao!
[20:17:40] <BlackHole> janrinok, bye! :)
[20:18:15] <janrinok> xlefay: I trust the dog is well exercised! BlackHole: 3rd revision of Policy Doc sent about 5 minutes ago. Bye all
[20:18:50] <xlefay> She is, haha
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[22:55:39] <paulej72> Azrael: can you please: /msg hostserver take vhost:Soylent/Staff/Editor/$account
[22:56:28] <xlefay> /msg hostserv take Soylent/Staff/Editor/$account
[22:56:31] <xlefay> ^ actually
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[23:20:42] <Azrael> done
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