#editorial | Logs for 2014-06-22

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[14:06:54] <janrinok> hi guys
[14:24:42] <janrinok> ... ah the quiet weekend effect
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[14:51:50] <janrinok> hi Bytram
[14:53:47] <Bytram> janrinok: Hi!
[14:56:24] <janrinok> how's things today?
[15:00:22] <Bytram> ok, getting ready to go back to work today after a week off.
[15:00:34] <janrinok> yeah, its a rotten feeling isn't it!
[15:02:02] <Bytram> not so rotten, just trying to finish up a few things before I get going. I either need less ambition, more time, or more energy!
[15:02:56] <janrinok> I know that its a long way in the future for you, but if you ever get in the position where you can afford to take early retirement - I can heartily recomment it!
[15:03:41] <janrinok> I still fill my day with things to do, but they are mostly things that I _want_ to do.
[15:08:58] <Bytram> janrinok: retirement does not look to be anywhere in my near future, nor atm distant future. Taking things a day at a time, yanno?
[15:10:01] <janrinok> yep, understood. Had your breakfast yet?
[15:10:55] <Bytram> nope, nor have I, ummm, 'prepared" for my day, so I'll need to break off in a short bit.
[15:11:47] <janrinok> ok, I'll be here for a while if you get bored!
[15:17:04] <Bytram> much appreciated! ta ta for now.
[15:17:24] <janrinok> lol - tata
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[20:53:28] <janrinok> hi, anyone around
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[20:54:41] <janrinok> hi Azrael
[20:58:52] <janrinok> you there Azrael ?
[21:02:40] <janrinok> ah, playing the silent type today, are we?
[21:23:59] <Azrael> yoyo
[21:24:23] <Azrael> my system got restarted so just came back, anything anyone said earlier, lost in the mists of time
[21:24:49] <janrinok> how's things?
[21:25:38] <Azrael> so-so, been a good day here, hot weather, which means headache (bad) and barbeque (good)
[21:26:01] <janrinok> pretty much the same here - no surprise - but without the headache.
[21:26:09] <Azrael> :D
[21:27:29] <janrinok> its not been a bad weekend SN-wise. We only ran low on stories on Fri evening / Sat morning. The story queue still has a couple to go, and there are enough subs until tomorrow.
[21:27:57] <janrinok> we've had far worse!
[21:31:57] <Azrael> cool, I just pushed one through and will do a few more this evening if time allows
[21:32:15] <Azrael> what gap do we use into midnight and small hours, 2-3 hours gap or longer?
[21:32:20] <janrinok> OK, that would help. Back to work tomorrow?
[21:33:08] <janrinok> could you second ed my story that is indicated in Red to you in the story queue please?
[21:33:29] <Azrael> salt reactor?
[21:34:11] <janrinok> yep that's it
[21:38:01] <Azrael> cool
[21:38:06] <Azrael> ok if I make changes?
[21:38:28] <janrinok> thx - yes, that's what a 2nd ed is for. Anything major though?
[21:39:52] <Azrael> adding an intro line befoe the quote and adding a bit more to the quote at the start
[21:40:32] <Azrael> but.. what is a 2nd ed for, not sure I've be told (or remembered) about 2nd eds
[21:40:38] <janrinok> its a good habit to get into. When you first log on, check the story queue for stories that are about to go out and haven't been 2nd ed'ed, before you start adding to the queue.
[21:41:31] <Azrael> to 2nd ed do I just go into it then click update ?
[21:41:42] <janrinok> OK, the principle is that no story goes out without 2 pairs of eyes checking it. The first ed takes the submission, does the major part of the editing task, and drops it in the story queue
[21:43:09] * Azrael nods
[21:43:23] <janrinok> It will display in yellow to the first ed, but in red to every other editor. The second ed opens it in the software editor, checks the content, spelling, links etc but also checks that the system is not being abused. Once he/she is happy press 'update' and it will return to the story queue display but will now indicate in green colour.
[21:43:37] <Azrael> ahhh
[21:44:11] <Azrael> if I do that, can you then go in and undo the changes I made if you don't like them?
[21:44:53] <janrinok> That is why we are discouraged from releasing our own submissions. I have several subs in the list because we got short on Fri, but I cannot edit them nor should I release them. However, in extremis, if something has to go quickly and there is no-one else to check it, then out it goes.
[21:45:24] <Azrael> *nods*
[21:45:33] <janrinok> I could undo your changes, as could any other ed, but it would be an unusual occurrence and it would show in the log.
[21:46:01] <Azrael> *nods* what I mean is that now I have made changes, not realising that wasn't what you meant, I don't know what to do :)
[21:46:29] <janrinok> Normally, if the original ed is on chan, you point out any major errors and let them correct it themselves, but spolling mistooks etc go ahead and change.
[21:47:01] <janrinok> you do the changes and I will have another look at it. If your changes are good, I will not change it back.
[21:47:31] <Azrael> if you then want them changed back, does it flag as unusual if I then go back in and change it?
[21:48:12] * Azrael has hit the button
[21:48:51] <janrinok> no, but on each story, when you edit it, it shows the 'sign-offs' in the top right of the display. That shows the time that each editor did some work on the story. It doesn't as far as I know keep a record of who changed what.
[21:49:25] <Azrael> *nods*
[21:50:53] <janrinok> OK, there is a problem. You have put your comment inside the quotes - and what you have written was not in the article that I was quoting from. We _never_ change quotations because 1. we might get it wrong, and 2. they might get upset and accuse us of putting words in their mouth. Your extra bit should go before the blockquote and the " character.
[21:51:56] <janrinok> Do you want me to move it, or would you rather do it yourself?
[21:58:37] <Azrael> just re-looking, the first part of the quote which I added is from the article, 2nd sentence from 2nd paragraph
[21:59:08] <Azrael> but I can pull it anyway if it is better without?
[21:59:54] <janrinok> No, OK then leave it in. It is a quotation from something they said in the article - it is correct where it is. Good edit!
[22:00:24] * Azrael phews
[22:01:09] <janrinok> np. We only have editors here - no half editors - you have as much right to edit and change stories as anyone else. You will soon get the confidence.
[22:01:25] * Azrael grins
[22:02:27] <janrinok> If you felt that the story benefitted from the additional text, it is because I had assumed something that was wrong. Not everyone will have picked it up and understood it. Your extra bit adds further explanation. There is nothing at all wrong in that!
[22:02:56] <janrinok> damn - crap spelling on my part there! Fingers and brain not connected...
[22:03:06] <Azrael> hehe
[22:03:33] <Azrael> ok, question: there are 3 red things from saturday, does that mean they didn't get 2nd edited and therefore didn't go out?
[22:03:46] <Azrael> oh, they have comments
[22:03:54] <Azrael> so they went out without 2nd eds?
[22:04:40] <janrinok> No - they will always go out unless they are grey - but they did not have a 2nd ed look at them,. LamX put them in the queue US time, and we were all in our warm beds. No-one had a chance to look at them.
[22:05:22] <Azrael> well all 3 have articles by me right after them in the queue, and 99% sure I saw them red in the queue and blissfully ignored them when I could have 2nd edited
[22:05:33] <Azrael> but now I know :D
[22:05:44] <Azrael> (possibly now I know a seocnd time)
[22:05:47] <janrinok> They only ones that don't go are the ones that display in grey - there is one in the queue now by NCommander - but it is not ready to go yet. He prefers to draft them and leave them with the 'Display' option unticked.
[22:07:15] <janrinok> Well ok then, lesson learned. Check the queue and check the red ones. Don't worry - it is something that frequently gets overlooked. After all, our own stories are much more important than those of another editor...:-)
[22:10:29] <Azrael> absolutely!! ;)
[22:12:23] <janrinok> The other thing to note - and I've already mentioned it - is if the sub queue gets very low (it got to 7 on Friday) then it is time to go and find some stories of our own. If you change channel to #rss-bot it will flag up news items as they are released, or you can have your own supply of favourite sites to visit to look for new stories.
[22:14:47] <Azrael> *nods*
[22:14:58] <Azrael> preferably not just /. though, eh? ;)
[22:15:59] <janrinok> no - although we have some submitters who do that. The URL is OK I suppose, but some even cut-and-paste entire articles. We try to spot them and most of the offenders have been silent for sometime now.
[22:16:49] <janrinok> I'm tired - I'm typing badly and that should have been 'some time' and not a single word!
[22:17:26] <Azrael> :D
[22:17:31] <Azrael> I'm for giving
[22:17:46] <janrinok> lol
[22:19:51] <janrinok> I'm going to get ready for my much-needed beauty sleep. I will stay lurking for a while longer. If you have any more stories that need checking before I switch off in about 30 minutes time, I will do them. Shout out if you have any questions in the meantime, but I might not respond immediately.
[22:20:21] <Azrael> will do, and thank you for your help :D
[22:21:22] <janrinok> np - both you and zizban have made quite a difference to the workload of the rest of us - and I mean that in a good way! It is not quite so manic as it was a week ago.
[22:21:33] <Azrael> :D yay
[22:22:32] <janrinok> Mind you - LamX and I did it all for about 2 weeks very early on. That was hard work. I never want to do that again, but at least we know it can be done.
[22:23:05] <Azrael> can imagine that was tough, I assume the audience would have been small too and you'd be thinking is all this hard work worth it?
[22:23:58] <janrinok> We did sometimes have our doubts but we kept each other going - and the site was fairly new so there was quite a buzz with it all.
[22:25:02] <janrinok> I can remember people waiting to join to get significant ID numbers - 256, 512, 666, 1000, 1024 etc.
[22:34:46] <Azrael> lol
[22:37:27] <Azrael> oh bother-drat
[22:37:39] <Azrael> I didn't change the time
[22:38:13] <janrinok> we've all done that - most of us more than once...
[22:38:15] <Azrael> if I go in and change the time will it 2nd ed approve?
[22:38:18] <Azrael> https://soylentnews.org
[22:38:35] <janrinok> no - it has to be a different ed to release it
[22:39:11] <Azrael> ahh cool, so I can safely edit and change
[22:39:48] <Azrael> in fact, I now realise I've done that plenty of times without worrying
[22:41:56] <janrinok> it only becomes a problem when you suddenly see it on the front page.... And even then it can still be edited, although we discourage it unless essential. If you rewrite something the comments that already exist might suddenly refer to something that you have deleted. It gets very confusing. But we sometimes have to change spelling mistakes, particularly in titles, and more rarely, to correct something that we have written.
[22:42:57] <Azrael> *nods*
[22:43:18] <Azrael> fortunately the time was such it was going to go out in about a minute's time
[22:43:28] <Azrael> so I had time to edit and push forward :D
[22:43:31] <janrinok> that was a bit close then
[22:45:23] <janrinok> If you ever wonder 'what would happen if' - switch over to dev.soylentnews.org and try things out there. Others might be working on it as well, but if you break it the main site keeps going. I would suggest that you make sure that you are on IRC before you use dev, just so you can put your hand up when you break it...
[22:46:15] <Azrael> :D
[22:52:54] <janrinok> I've checked your story - about to go to my beddy-byes
[23:00:53] <janrinok> Azrael: cheers, I'll see you tomorrow perhaps? Good night.
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