#editorial | Logs for 2014-03-25
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[01:14:07] <MrBluze> do u need more editors?
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[01:30:16] <NezSez> anyone home?
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[01:37:41] <MrBluze> im here lol
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[14:13:05] <paulej72> eds I am working on a nag message to be displayed when the queue is low. I need to know what it should say and how low the queue should be before it goes int effect.
[14:19:50] <mattie_p> LaminatorX can provide better feedback, but I'd suggest when it gets below 10.
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[16:29:03] <janrinok> LaminatorX - are you around?
[17:17:21] <n1> afternoon, everyone, janrinok
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[20:23:54] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: I just noticed "display" is checked on that e-cigarette story
[20:24:44] <janrinok> yep, it's going out
[20:25:06] <mrcoolbp> did you check it?
[20:25:11] <janrinok> Yep
[20:25:18] <mrcoolbp> (BTW I changed the author back to myself)
[20:25:24] <mrcoolbp> cool thanks
[20:25:45] <janrinok> If it is green it means that another editor has also looked at it.
[20:26:47] <janrinok> I'm glad you are taking the credit - you did the work. Of course, you will also get the community flak as well ...
[20:26:58] <n1> im ready with a pitchfork...
[20:27:01] <n1> ;)
[20:27:05] <janrinok> hi n1
[20:27:16] <n1> how goes, janrinok
[20:27:27] <janrinok> We've taken 2 new eds on so far, and your name is on the list.
[20:27:54] <mrcoolbp> .voice
[20:27:57] <mrcoolbp> = (
[20:28:26] <janrinok> mrcoolbp was a bit of a quick inside job though, LaminatorX has managed to also take on 1 other who is undergoing training.
[20:28:39] <mrcoolbp> thanks janrinok, I'll get my pitchfork armor
[20:29:30] <n1> all progress is good, quality is the most important
[20:29:46] <janrinok> I'd better pack my bags then ....
[20:30:03] <n1> lol
[20:31:05] <LaminatorX> How about you, n1, still interested in editing?
[20:33:16] <n1> I am
[20:34:16] <LaminatorX> What is your availability like, time/zone-wise?
[20:35:34] <n1> that's the tricky bit heh. i'm available most if not every day to edit, but my times vary a lot and how much i have free to do it, i dont have any routines and my other commitments change constantly
[20:35:38] <n1> but i'm based in UK
[20:36:42] <LaminatorX> That is a plus.
[20:37:50] <n1> i'm more than happy to help, but as i said to janrinok, i can't give any promises on how much i'm available. sometimes it can be a lot, others very little, the joys of being self-employed.
[20:38:43] <LaminatorX> Everyone should be able to flex their times to some degree, we're all volunteers after all. Part of why we need to bulk up a bit is so that we can cover for people who are busy.
[20:39:12] <LaminatorX> With Janrinok and I carrying the whole load at the moment, there's no redundancy to speak of.
[20:39:46] <n1> yeah, we discussed that the other day, i think more editors the better as long as the quality is consistent
[20:39:46] <MrBluze> erm
[20:40:37] <LaminatorX> We're all capable of good work, but it gets hard to maintain when we're over-taxed.
[20:41:03] <MrBluze> u need more than 2 ppl, that's for sure
[20:41:16] <n1> and the need to have editors who have a wide range of subjects they're interested in. one person may overlook an interesting story because doesnt understand or is not interested the background
[20:41:56] <n1> janrinok has done very well picking up the slack
[20:42:12] <n1> but sadly, some people arn't so accomodating
[20:43:35] <LaminatorX> Well, n1 would bring us up to five (not counting Dopefish, Cactus, or girlwhowaspluggedout). What is your time/zone availability, mrcoolbp?
[20:44:27] <mrcoolbp> as I said it varies, I'm in EST time zone, so mostly between 10am EST and Midnight EST
[20:45:11] <LaminatorX> That's good, that's when Janrinok and I would ideally be doing something other than this. :)
[20:45:28] <LaminatorX> GungnirSniper is around that timeframe as well.
[20:46:25] <LaminatorX> Alright. Consider yourself invited to the editorial team, n1.
[20:46:46] <n1> :)
[20:46:51] <n1> sounds good to me
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[20:48:08] <LaminatorX> n1 and mrcoolbp, please email editors@sn with whatever address you'd like to have added to the editors list.
[20:48:27] <mrcoolbp> no problem
[20:48:33] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: we need to clarify quoting style on the story style page
[20:49:02] <mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[20:49:03] <LaminatorX> We'll find some time in the next few days to handle training. I have been experimentint the last day or so with a little less elaborate quoting.
[20:49:10] <paulej72> Editors I am working on getting a usbmit stories messge for the top of the page when the queue is low.
[20:49:14] <MrBluze> mrcoolbp++ this
[20:49:14] <DashComma> karma - mrcoolbp: 1
[20:49:26] <paulej72> ./ uses this wording: Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop.
[20:49:43] <n1> i should have plenty of time thurs+fri to run me through what ever i need to know
[20:49:45] <paulej72> How de we want to word this
[20:49:46] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX, paulej72: from last night: <FoobarBazbot> The message should be a picture of a cat with the text 'moar submishins, plz' superimposed.
[20:50:08] <paulej72> lol, but I have only room for text
[20:50:22] <LaminatorX> I think that with our more promenant byline compared to /., we can treat the whole story like a blockquote, and thus not require wrapping quotes around the whole story.
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[20:50:45] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX I agree
[20:51:05] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: editors@soylentnews.org right?
[20:51:08] <paulej72> Do we have an idea about when we have this kick in, some one suggested 10 item or lower and it would be displayed
[20:51:31] <LaminatorX> That not only saves us the trouble of turning quotes within stories into singles all the damn time, it also aleviates the seeming need for a dangling close quote on stories that end with a sub-blockquote.
[20:51:47] <LaminatorX> editors@soylentnews.org, right.
[20:52:10] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX also when there is a block-quote within a story no quotation marks are necessary around it right?
[20:52:17] <LaminatorX> Ten would probably be good, paulej72.
[20:52:20] <MrBluze> LaminatorX: can u get me a nicely formatted pdf or other word processor doc of how u want your formatting to look?
[20:52:37] <LaminatorX> That's right. Blockquoting replaces quotation marks.
[20:52:47] <mrcoolbp> that's what I thought
[20:53:01] <MrBluze> we can work once more on the css fix-up for story content .. it can be the next task for the UI since we've been paused
[20:53:12] <LaminatorX> OK
[20:55:53] <MrBluze> LaminatorX: mrbluze@soylentnews.org
[20:55:58] <janrinok> paulej72: It's not my final say but I would suggest something a little higher, perhaps 15?
[20:56:00] <MrBluze> send a before :: after type of thing
[20:57:19] <paulej72> I like 15, but what about the wording. NC wantes somethng similar to ./ as it shows that the site is powered by the people.
[20:57:31] <LaminatorX> That can work. I think we talked about this before but then it got swept asade during drama oputbreaks.
[20:58:00] * MrBluze nods
[20:58:02] <MrBluze> brb
[20:59:31] <LaminatorX> Alright, n1 you have editor bits now too.
[20:59:59] <n1> so i do!
[21:00:05] <mrcoolbp> n1, the admin panel is daunting at first
[21:00:19] <LaminatorX> Feel free to explore the new bar of magic you'll have at the top of your screen on the site, but let's hold off on posting stories until tomorrow.
[21:00:46] <n1> yeah sure, i'll poke around a little bit, but i'll leave actually doing anything until i'm told
[21:01:26] <LaminatorX> I need to get my attention back to my day job in a minute or so here, but let's find some tome tomorrow to show you guys the ropes.
[21:01:52] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: I've had a crash course already from janrinok
[21:02:01] <LaminatorX> Excellent.
[21:02:10] <mrcoolbp> plus I've been playing around with it on slashcott for a while
[21:02:12] <janrinok> n1: the first thing to learn is how _not_ to release a story - that way you don't repeat my mistake of a month or so ago...
[21:02:26] <n1> tomorrow wont be ideal for me, thurs or fri i'll be around quite a lot though.
[21:02:37] <LaminatorX> Thursday it is, then.
[21:02:47] <n1> thanks :)
[21:03:03] <n1> janrinok, i remember
[21:03:16] <n1> i don't want your title of the one always deserving of blame ;)
[21:04:13] <LaminatorX> With hundreds of stories flowing along, we will all screw up at some point. Statistics is a harsh mistress.
[21:04:48] <n1> we all screw up, we all wont get cut any slack lol
[21:05:22] <janrinok> the community never forgives, the community never forgets...
[21:05:31] <mrcoolbp> heh, true
[21:05:43] <n1> anyways, i really need to make some dinner. i shall be back when my stir-fry is ready
[21:05:56] <n1> i think that should be the topic for this channel, janrinok lol
[21:05:58] <janrinok> have a good one
[21:06:01] <LaminatorX> The community also wants contradictory things.
[21:06:04] <n1> "the community never forgives, the community never forgets..."
[21:06:38] <LaminatorX> "expect it?"
[21:06:45] <janrinok> lol
[21:08:22] <LaminatorX> I should change the topic though, hold on.
[21:08:55] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: we are refining the quoting format
[21:09:06] <LaminatorX> .topic Welcome new Editors: GungnirSniper, mrcoolbp, and n1. Be nice to them, please.
[21:09:06] SkyNet changed topic of #editorial to: Welcome new Editors: GungnirSniper, mrcoolbp, and n1. Be nice to them, please.
[21:09:07] <janrinok> copied
[21:09:33] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: not before time...
[21:09:41] <mrcoolbp> ?
[21:10:04] <janrinok> It gets tricky trying to nest all the possible quotation variations that one finds
[21:11:00] <LaminatorX> Right. Let's make it official: Remove the outer quotes that slash wraps arounf the submitted story.
[21:11:48] <LaminatorX> That will leave the innew quoting much simpler.
[21:11:59] <janrinok> first story changed!
[21:12:35] <janrinok> #Google's Bold Plan - now with fewer pesky quotation marks! Buy your copy now!
[21:12:55] <LaminatorX> Huzzah!
[21:13:00] <mrcoolbp> LamnatorX: I'm outlining this in the "Story Style" document, one thing that occurs to me is when the submitter doesn't write any kind of summary, and just includes a quote from the link, should it go directly to block-quote?
[21:13:50] <LaminatorX> More or less. Adding a "From the article:" is good form though.
[21:13:55] <janrinok> I personally would write my own short summary - but it is LaminatorX's call
[21:14:19] <LaminatorX> We should. That's something we've been weak on with just the two of us posting tons of stories.
[21:14:25] <janrinok> agreed
[21:14:36] <janrinok> but there was little choice
[21:14:38] <mrcoolbp> got it, I'll throw that on the wiki
[21:15:07] <mrcoolbp> with all the adding of editors, that document should be a little more refined so we can point them to it as a guide
[21:15:43] <LaminatorX> Adding a one or two sentance preamble to a "raw link & quote" story is definitely good form.
[21:16:01] * mrcoolbp nods
[21:16:29] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX isn't a "raw link" bad form generally (at least around here?)
[21:17:52] <LaminatorX> Yes. What we get a lot of though are a link and a quote, with little in the way of a summary.
[21:18:35] <LaminatorX> Some are great stories to have, but the submitters are just kind of driveby submitting without comment.
[21:19:09] <LaminatorX> If we had a hundred submissions a day, we'd probably pass those over, but that hasn't been the case.
[21:19:53] <mrcoolbp> cooll
[21:20:37] <LaminatorX> AnonTechie, for instance, was around 30% of our subs at sone point. He rarely summarises.
[21:20:56] <LaminatorX> Yes, his subs are good topics.
[21:21:40] <LaminatorX> I mean to gently suggest he do better at some point in the future when it wouldn't risk alienating such a prolific submitter.
[21:26:02] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: maybe we should include "Add a summary of some kind to the story you are linking to" to the: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[21:26:18] <mrcoolbp> as it is non-obvious to the current submitters
[21:27:22] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: I agree but I would rather have a bare link than nothing at all. If some are deterred by even a short summary I would rather have what they give - particularly over the last few weeks when the list was very short.
[21:27:55] <mrcoolbp> okay, we can add that in later when we have 5,323 submissions/day
[21:28:07] <janrinok> lol, I'll hang on then...
[21:28:34] <LaminatorX> Agreed. :) OK, I need to get some paying work done. I'll check back in later. Feeling good about this expansion though. Thank you all.
[21:28:53] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|afk
[21:28:54] <janrinok> go earn your crust for today.
[21:30:30] <n1> yay for teriyaki pork
[21:33:06] <janrinok> now go read the label and tell me how much pork is actually in there ;)
[21:33:21] <chromas> Add a summary? You mean we have to read the article? :)
[21:33:37] <janrinok> well, it's not compulsory yet
[21:33:54] <n1> lol, chromas
[21:34:02] <janrinok> just something to do if you are feeling bored.
[21:34:15] <n1> well, im hoping a large percentage as the pork came from a packet of stir-fry pork
[21:34:31] <n1> rather than a ready made stirfry meal
[21:34:32] <janrinok> OK, I'll give you that one )
[21:34:48] <n1> saying that, when i got some other cuts of pork from this shop
[21:34:53] <n1> it did seem to be mostly water
[21:35:02] -!- xyzzyyzzyx [xyzzyyzzyx!~48f3b602@72.243.zhg.v] has joined #editorial
[21:35:10] <xyzzyyzzyx> 'allo
[21:35:20] <n1> hi xyzzyyzzyx
[21:35:26] <janrinok> There was a program on the BBC this morning (?) about the water in meat problem
[21:35:31] <janrinok> xyzzyyzzyx: hi
[21:35:47] <xyzzyyzzyx> hi folks
[21:36:22] -!- weeds [weeds!~4118a13c@cwz-29-45-637-17.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #editorial
[21:36:27] <janrinok> hi weeds
[21:36:38] <janrinok> gosh, its getting busy here for a change
[21:36:51] <n1> they've come for your head, janrinok
[21:36:53] <weeds> hello, how's things? Looks pretty busy (good)
[21:36:58] * xyzzyyzzyx reads todays #editorial logs
[21:37:01] <weeds> you answered while I was typing
[21:37:22] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx: pop!
[21:37:22] <janrinok> weeds how's things?
[21:37:28] * xyzzyyzzyx unsheaths his Elvish sword. It is glowing a bright blue
[21:38:02] <weeds> good day - not too many disasters. Going on vaca tomorrow.
[21:38:09] <janrinok> Damn, I still keep putting the extra quotation marks in!
[21:38:23] <weeds> Take cover! (xyzzyyzzyx)
[21:38:47] <janrinok> where you going weeds ?
[21:39:17] <weeds> "The Great Smokey Mountains"
[21:39:22] * xyzzyyzzyx drops his lantern, which shatters. It is very dark. You are likely to be eaten by a janrue
[21:39:34] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: nice
[21:39:39] <janrinok> xyzzyyzzyx: lol
[21:39:48] <n1> BBQ in them mountains?
[21:40:02] <weeds> janrinok: extra quotes?
[21:40:15] <weeds> n1: Indeed
[21:40:32] <janrinok> Yeah, we've just had a discussion about formatting the stories and agreed to change the quoting rules.
[21:40:44] <janrinok> I'm still trying to lose the muscle memory.
[21:40:59] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx: "You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike."
[21:41:24] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds:E
[21:41:29] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx; just the block and no quote marks?
[21:42:04] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: wat
[21:42:44] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx: "It is pitch dark, if you move you will likely fall into a hole and break every bone in your body."
[21:43:21] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: sees a faint light in the submission queue
[21:44:01] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx: Don't go towards the light!
[21:44:43] <weeds> janrinok: drat... just the block and no quote marks?
[21:44:49] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: The Troll submission has lopped off your head. You are dead.
[21:45:13] <janrinok> I thought that might have been for me - yes
[21:45:23] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx: "You have fallen into a hole and broken every bone in your body."
[21:46:10] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: ouch
[21:48:16] * n1 invents a dance for the karma score of 50
[21:49:49] <weeds> n1: Is that the max?
[21:49:55] <janrinok> weeds: yes
[21:50:04] <weeds> (me too)
[21:50:25] <n1> i didnt know that
[21:50:54] <janrinok> It doesn't take much to lose it though.
[21:50:59] <weeds> I have to go do some flaming and shouting and throwing stuff around!
[21:51:12] <n1> i thought i would have done, or lost some
[21:51:17] <janrinok> A couple of unloved comments in a thread and you can be back down very quickly
[21:51:20] <n1> after i got a rant modded offtopic
[21:51:43] <mrcoolbp> whoa what is going on in here
[21:51:48] <n1> which was fair enough, but the story had so few comments it seemed like a good time for a rant
[21:51:48] * xyzzyyzzyx looks for pitchfork oil
[21:51:56] <weeds> maybe I'll just mess up janrinok's hair!
[21:52:07] <n1> yet someone, in my opinion, wasted mod points modding me down, when there were comments elsewhere that deserved modding up
[21:52:28] <weeds> sshhhhhh mrcoolbp is here
[21:52:31] <janrinok> You obviously haven't seen my hair! In fact, neither have I since I crop it quite short
[21:52:37] <n1> lol
[21:52:41] <weeds> lol
[21:52:41] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1: humans are naturally destructive
[21:53:02] <janrinok> yeah, but it's fun isn't it...
[21:53:02] <n1> xyzzyyzzyx, sadly that seems to be all too true
[21:53:09] <weeds> he said swinging pitchfork
[21:53:32] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: that's still gleaming behind my back thankyouverymuch
[21:53:57] <janrinok> mrcoolbp - do you want to do the second look at some of my stories?
[21:54:08] <mrcoolbp> working on that now
[21:54:20] <janrinok> great
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[21:55:43] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx: Did you get a satisfactory explanation on your story submission?
[21:56:03] <janrinok> xyzzyyzzyx: which story?
[21:57:26] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: no messages, no update on the pending story so....not necessarily - not that I'm mad, on the contrary, I'll submit all day erry day if I find something decent
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[21:57:52] <xyzzyyzzyx> janrinok: Lexmark SCOTUS ruling
[21:58:49] <janrinok> I can't see in the sub list, when did it go in? xyzzyyzzyx
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[21:59:04] <xyzzyyzzyx> I actually had trouble deciding on a Topic, since there is no YRO here
[21:59:05] <janrinok> OK found it xyzzyyzzyx
[21:59:21] <weeds> xyzzyyzzyx++
[21:59:21] <DashComma> karma - xyzzyyzzyx: 1
[21:59:51] <janrinok> I'm about 5 or 6 stories away from it and going down the list as fast as I can
[21:59:54] <weeds> for saying, "I'll submit all day erry day"
[22:00:00] <xyzzyyzzyx> I tried to be a better summarizer
[22:00:07] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: LOL thanks
[22:00:32] <mrcoolbp> xyzzyyzzyx: we are looking into implementing some kind of reason for rejected stories possibly
[22:01:25] <xyzzyyzzyx> mrcoolbp: I think I just hadn't been processed yet. I tried to break the story in a timely manner to generate hits. It failed.
[22:01:43] <mrcoolbp> ah
[22:01:43] <weeds> mrcoolbp: you prob'ly know I'm behind that idea.
[22:01:56] <n1> a reason for rejection is a good idea
[22:01:58] <mrcoolbp> weeds, many people share that idea
[22:02:15] <n1> if you get a story rejected and dont know why, especially if it's your first one
[22:02:19] <janrinok> xyzzyyzzyx: Yes, I'm afraid that's one of the problems but weve taken on 3 new eds today to try to improve the throughput and coverage.
[22:02:26] <n1> you're inclined to go "fuck it, you wont get any more from me."
[22:02:44] <weeds> mrcoolbp: behind - meaning I support it, not that I'm the author.
[22:03:06] <mrcoolbp> understood
[22:03:23] <mrcoolbp> n1: we are also working on getting the "don't take it personally" link up
[22:03:30] <mrcoolbp> it is currently broken
[22:04:13] <n1> what would that link do when it works?
[22:04:13] <xyzzyyzzyx> janrinok: I'll gladly volunteer to be an editor after tax season is over if needed. You can even get a bit of a CV of sorts.
[22:04:51] <weeds> It would be nice if we could post a story and have an urgent flag... But I fear everything would then come in as urgent.
[22:05:00] <xyzzyyzzyx> ^
[22:05:17] <n1> if you find a story thats important, submit it asap
[22:05:21] <n1> and come shout in here i'd figure
[22:05:33] <xyzzyyzzyx> that seems a decent plan
[22:06:02] <xyzzyyzzyx> better than @CNNBREAKINGNEWS no we still don't know where that plane is, honest
[22:06:17] <n1> lol
[22:06:35] <n1> personally, i'd like more 'breaking news' on SN
[22:06:41] <xyzzyyzzyx> ^
[22:06:53] <n1> but i think that would result in a backlash from the commenters about poorly sourced and incorrect articles
[22:07:18] <n1> can't please everyone, but i'm going to try damn it lol
[22:07:39] <MrBluze> for breaking news, u need reporters
[22:07:48] <xyzzyyzzyx> Reddit has that issue
[22:07:53] <MrBluze> ppl whose job is to check feeds on their favorite topics
[22:07:59] <MrBluze> and then submit what is hot
[22:08:14] <xyzzyyzzyx> MrBluze: I'm prob a better reporter than editor
[22:08:29] <xyzzyyzzyx> MrBluze: I REALLY like that
[22:08:49] <MrBluze> im not an editor / leader in this but its just an idea i had
[22:08:51] <xyzzyyzzyx> MrBluze: that's brand differentiation, right thar
[22:09:18] <n1> it's a tricky thing you cant win really, if SN starts having 'reporters' then we'll get accused of bias
[22:09:29] <n1> or getting paid by people so their stories go up
[22:09:31] <n1> or what ever else
[22:09:47] <weeds> n1>: hence the reason for no advertising
[22:09:48] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1: newsbreakers? but yeah
[22:09:54] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[22:10:00] <mrcoolbp> n1: the link leads to a page explaining why most stories are rejected
[22:10:22] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: no advertising == no bias
[22:10:25] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: are we supposed to be checking other sites to see if stories have been posted there?
[22:10:25] <n1> weeds, the no advertising cuts both ways "well there's no advertising so you MUST be taking money under the table for slashverts"
[22:10:30] * xyzzyyzzyx hopes that means not equal
[22:10:55] <n1> sadly, that means equal afaik
[22:11:01] <xyzzyyzzyx> mrcoolbp: I ALWAYS do since it seems a good percentage of the users do, and are vocal yokels about it
[22:11:05] <weeds> n1: there's no pleasing some people :)
[22:11:21] <n1> quite true
[22:11:48] <weeds> Do people say that wkipedia is taking money under the table?
[22:11:51] <mrcoolbp> xyzzyyzzyx: makes the editors job even more painful
[22:12:09] <xyzzyyzzyx> mrcoolbp++
[22:12:09] <DashComma> karma - mrcoolbp: 2
[22:12:19] <n1> weeds, i wouldnt know but i also wouldnt want SN to end up in the style/drama of what wikipedia is
[22:12:35] <n1> owners of pages and subjects etc
[22:12:51] <weeds> n1: agree
[22:13:09] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1: yeah thats no good ( notes that there are teams in SN world anyways )
[22:13:50] <n1> it makes sense, but the thing we must avoid is a monopoloy on the editorial line, where all editors have the same view and areas of knowledge
[22:14:27] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1: then you wind up needing an omnibudsman to smack you around
[22:14:57] <n1> well i think we have the community to do that, and as janrinok knows
[22:15:08] <n1> they're pretty good at smacking you around before the dust even settles
[22:15:16] <xyzzyyzzyx> haha
[22:15:21] <weeds> indeed
[22:15:59] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: srry bit busy at the moment with the SO brb
[22:16:06] <mrcoolbp> np
[22:16:14] -!- Tachyon [Tachyon!~Tachyon@xuco.me] has joined #editorial
[22:16:31] <n1> from my own perspective, i'm not a specialist in programming or science, but i have good knowledge (i think) about global affairs and business and how technology relates to those areas
[22:17:02] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1++
[22:17:02] <DashComma> karma - n1: 1
[22:17:22] <n1> so when i start posting submissions, those are the topics im most likely to be involved, but then you need people on the other subjects as well
[22:19:43] <weeds> Well, SoylentNews (another way of saying people, since...) Time to make like a baby and head out! It has been a pleasure chatting.
[22:19:53] <xyzzyyzzyx> weeds: later
[22:19:57] <n1> take care, weeds
[22:22:01] -!- weeds has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[22:22:03] <xyzzyyzzyx> I'm a general newshound, though YRO and finance / banking / fiat would probably be my specialties
[22:22:41] <n1> i'm trying to get my head around banking/finance
[22:23:10] <n1> i read a lot on it, and i talk a lot about it, but even with a local focus, i struggle with the detail
[22:23:44] <xyzzyyzzyx> it is a very odd thing. I live and breathe Zero Hedge and Business Insider for those subjects
[22:24:06] <xyzzyyzzyx> I put in almost 8 yrs at a regional bank as a developer
[22:24:10] <n1> Business Insider often crops up in my reading
[22:24:47] <n1> still in banking sector?
[22:24:58] <xyzzyyzzyx> BI reports on stuff first, and accurately, without the er Wall Street bent of WSJ
[22:24:59] <n1> or just something you maintain interest in
[22:25:26] <xyzzyyzzyx> I am no longer in that specific sector but it still holds my interest
[22:25:35] <n1> yeah, ive been pretty impressed by their articles. WSJ seems to always come with an agenda, rather than just the story
[22:25:44] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1: right
[22:26:16] <n1> i was quite impressed by moneyweek, which is a UK centric outlet i believe
[22:26:22] <xyzzyyzzyx> Zero Hedge wears its editorial all over its sleeve, but is very, very entertaining as it breaks stories
[22:26:26] <xyzzyyzzyx> interesting
[22:26:34] <n1> but then i started noticing things, opposite stances being taken from a few weeks ago
[22:26:50] <n1> articles that read like a press release from an investment consultant
[22:26:57] <xyzzyyzzyx> eww
[22:27:28] <n1> it's not always obvious, but it started to contradict what got me to read them in the first place
[22:27:33] <n1> i'll have a look at Zero Hedge
[22:28:11] <n1> heh at their tagline
[22:28:16] <xyzzyyzzyx> ZH is very anarcho-capitalist-libertarian, but pulls no punches in pantsing EVERYONE
[22:28:25] <n1> thats good
[22:28:28] <xyzzyyzzyx> jah
[22:29:21] <n1> being left out of the traditional party politics and left/right wings of the situation
[22:29:34] <n1> i want all sides to be given the shit they deserve
[22:29:52] <xyzzyyzzyx> oh absolutely
[22:30:39] <n1> as someone who's self employed but also with socialist leanings, i never know what to think
[22:31:11] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1++
[22:31:11] <DashComma> karma - n1: 2
[22:31:51] <n1> it's really confusing and stressful sometimes
[22:32:45] <xyzzyyzzyx> I can't imagine
[22:33:10] <n1> i could/would be making a lot more money if i was a purebred capitalist, letting the 'market' decide if i'm being ethical in my business
[22:33:49] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1: well you have to live with yourself at the end of the day
[22:34:07] <n1> yeah, i had to quit working for a company, because i morally couldnt do it anymore
[22:34:18] <n1> but i was in the position to be able to, most people dont have the time or energy to think about it
[22:34:26] <xyzzyyzzyx> there are plenty of sociocapitalist models AFAIK, Costco being a pretty good example
[22:34:29] <n1> they need their wages to pay rent
[22:34:45] <n1> so the clients and other employees who are getting fucked are irrelevant
[22:34:48] -!- LaminatorX|afk has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[22:34:52] <n1> because you're trying to look after your family
[22:35:17] <xyzzyyzzyx> someone has to lose. not only in the present time, but also in the future.
[22:36:01] <n1> indeed, but thats a problem i have with the purebred capitalism, for it to work, people have to be at the bottom
[22:36:23] <xyzzyyzzyx> pure socialism trades tomorrow for today, pure capitalism trades today for tomorrow
[22:36:24] <n1> you want people to aspire, but in that pure free market, the people that aspire but dont have the connections/skills/financial backing
[22:36:38] <xyzzyyzzyx> there has to be a mix someplace
[22:36:46] <n1> yeah
[22:37:06] <n1> it's sad because i think the USA has a real chance at finding that middle ground
[22:37:19] <n1> but the political consensus is so far away from it
[22:37:29] <n1> because of the propaganda and the fear of anything that could be vaguely socialist
[22:38:22] <xyzzyyzzyx> the system is there, but the political will is not, nevermind the horrifying corrosion of religion on all of it.
[22:38:43] <n1> yeah
[22:38:51] <n1> the religious bit really confuses me though
[22:39:09] <xyzzyyzzyx> what I said just now or in the USA in general?
[22:39:22] <n1> being that the biggest advocates of the unadulterated free market in the US proclaim to be christian
[22:40:05] <n1> but i can't see "Jesus" being a capitalist or condoning those kind of "tough love" approaches to welfare/justice
[22:40:18] <xyzzyyzzyx> "Opiate of the Masses" vote counter to their own self-interests, based on cattle-like behavior.
[22:40:51] <n1> it seems like the people who are actually standing in elections in the US, are products of this, not the actual creators of it
[22:40:58] <n1> and it's become self-sustaining in that respect
[22:41:12] <xyzzyyzzyx> you have to remember the Protest in Protestant drives a great deal
[22:41:18] <n1> the people standing for election actually believe in the shit they're saying
[22:41:31] <n1> whereas here, it's never really implied they believe it
[22:41:35] <n1> it's their election platform
[22:41:41] <xyzzyyzzyx> ahh, ok
[22:41:57] <n1> they say what they have to, to get elected, there's never any 'passion' in their statements
[22:41:57] <xyzzyyzzyx> yeah there's no such thing as SocialDemocrats here
[22:42:12] <xyzzyyzzyx> Huck was about as close as we've seen
[22:42:29] <n1> it doesnt really matter, in my opinion
[22:42:37] <n1> in the last UK election i would have voted for the LibDems
[22:42:49] <n1> i could never do it now, because as the minor party in the coalition
[22:43:01] <n1> they have shown themselves to be the same as the other two
[22:43:47] <n1> they immediately started playing the game, walking the walk, talking the talk of all the governments that came before them
[22:44:06] <xyzzyyzzyx> yes, there's no real difference here either. they keep us busy hating each other, plunder all the things in the meantime
[22:44:09] <n1> much like Obama after he won the first election, hope and change vanished.
[22:45:03] <n1> I got fooled by Obama and by the possibilities of the LibDems in power here, i had high hopes for both
[22:45:08] <xyzzyyzzyx> it is quite sad
[22:45:34] <n1> i dont know the answer
[22:45:55] <mrcoolbp> wow guys, this is quite the discussion here, not sure if it's editorial related though
[22:46:13] <n1> feel free to bring it back to the editorial
[22:48:05] <xyzzyyzzyx> yes, we filled the vacuum
[22:49:26] <xyzzyyzzyx> I'll wind up by saying I'm happy to be in a place with 50 little laboratories of government, keeps things interesting
[22:49:54] <n1> i am going to bookmark zerohedge, so thanks for the headsup on that
[22:50:04] <xyzzyyzzyx> n1: sure thing
[22:50:22] <n1> i'd consider relocating to scotland, if they obtain independence heh
[22:50:27] <xyzzyyzzyx> ha
[22:51:43] <xyzzyyzzyx> my home state just unanimously approved CBD oil therapy for children with seizures - so we have that going for us ( hey that'd make a good Science submission hmmm )
[22:52:29] <n1> that would make a good submission!
[22:53:21] <xyzzyyzzyx> I'll wait til it gets signed, I think tomorrow
[22:56:54] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: I'm back but just waiting for a doc to arrive for my wife - just a precautionary... What was your question again?
[22:57:08] <mrcoolbp> are we supposed to be checking other sites to see if stories have been posted there?
[22:57:34] <mrcoolbp> http://soylentnews.org
[22:58:20] <xyzzyyzzyx> ouch, that burns
[22:58:52] <mrcoolbp> it was my first story = (
[22:58:54] <janrinok> No, as long as we are quoting an original source we are ok. There were a few submitters in the early days who would copy/paste whole stories from the other site but I've not seen any of that for a few weeks now.
[22:59:14] <mrcoolbp> well this was word-for-word of their submission
[22:59:26] <n1> id imagine there are some submitting to both
[22:59:46] <n1> and if i was submitting, i wouldnt rewrite it for different sites
[23:01:05] <mrcoolbp> well most won't
[23:01:05] <n1> was the e-cigarette summary direct from the article?
[23:01:09] <mrcoolbp> yes
[23:01:13] <mrcoolbp> no
[23:01:23] <mrcoolbp> not sure let me check
[23:01:32] <n1> noting that the submitter is one of the new editors...
[23:01:51] <mrcoolbp> lol
[23:01:58] <janrinok> Yes, we've asked people not to do that, or at least tell us if it was offered elsewhere mrcoolbp
[23:02:04] <mrcoolbp> yeah we need to have a talk with him about it
[23:02:26] <mrcoolbp> n1: it was not quoted from TFAs
[23:02:41] <janrinok> Another thing that we don't do is release our own stories..... But I hadn't told you that.
[23:02:43] <mrcoolbp> it was a summary he must have submitted to both
[23:03:02] <mrcoolbp> oh janrinok, so always leace display unchecked?
[23:03:02] <n1> not ideal
[23:03:08] <mrcoolbp> leave*
[23:03:44] <janrinok> LaminatorX said it about a hour ago - we all make mistakes, and ours are always public.
[23:04:32] <mrcoolbp> #1 in the que is now grey as I unchecked the display box
[23:04:44] <mrcoolbp> is that correct?
[23:05:02] <mrcoolbp> I'm not understanding the exact meaning of "release"
[23:05:04] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[23:06:12] <xyzzyyzzyx> yes, what does 'release own stories' mean?
[23:06:33] <n1> we cant release our own submissions
[23:06:48] <mrcoolbp> ah
[23:07:01] <janrinok> No there are 2 greys in the story list - update it to make sure you can see both. One is about Carter, and it was merged with another story which wne out at 16:47. The second is a Dupe so it will not be released. There is no way of deleting stories from the list.
[23:07:45] * mrcoolbp re-checks the "display" box
[23:08:19] <janrinok> Your Tiny Arduino story is now top
[23:08:39] <xyzzyyzzyx> oh, an editor can't self-post essentially, yeah that makes sense
[23:09:09] <n1> yup
[23:09:40] <MrBluze> when i have time i will get one of u to hold my hand as i edit/post a story
[23:09:55] <janrinok> Although we should be trustworthy the system would be open to abuse if we did that - or at least it would appear to our readers. They would see X releasing his own stories, yet the reader's story might have been rejected.
[23:10:51] <janrinok> This is why the double check to get a green story is important.
[23:11:09] <n1> will the stories not be released unless theyve been double checked
[23:11:12] <n1> or is that just the ideal
[23:11:45] <janrinok> just the ideal - the last 10 days or so it has been LamX and myself pushing them out as fast as we can.
[23:11:55] <n1> yeah thats what i thought
[23:13:05] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: Go to the first link of your Arduino story, and then read the last line of that page. I don't know why they put that comment there - they surely want to advertise their kit - but someone in the community will point it out to you.
[23:13:50] <janrinok> I'm not sure if it applies to what we are doing or just to the images and videos.
[23:15:04] <mrcoolbp> I'm not seeing it?
[23:15:17] <n1> im looking as well, idk what im supposed to be seeing?
[23:15:27] <janrinok> It says 'No hot linking'
[23:16:41] <janrinok> I'm 'assuming' that it refers to the images but I'm not sure.
[23:17:07] <mrcoolbp> on techcrunch?
[23:17:36] <janrinok> Leave it where it is - I would do the same - but someone will point it out...
[23:18:40] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: have you found it?
[23:18:48] <mrcoolbp> no
[23:18:54] <n1> i cant either
[23:18:57] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[23:19:40] <janrinok> the last line of the techcrunch article is "No hotlinking please."
[23:20:30] <janrinok> Now, it doesn't make any sense to me but I can't imagine what else it is referring to unless it is only for images and video.
[23:20:30] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[23:20:40] <n1> "They’ve already gone way over their goal and they’ll be shipping in August so get thee to the Microviewery."
[23:20:46] <n1> is the last line of the article i see before the video
[23:21:08] <n1> and then theres no more text until the bottom menu
[23:21:11] <mrcoolbp> that's also what I see...
[23:22:24] <n1> but either way, the 'hot linking' would refer to images/videos
[23:22:25] <janrinok> The first link is the 'minature Arduino that includes.....'
[23:24:02] <janrinok> Am I the only one seeing that on the page?
[23:24:09] <n1> seems like it
[23:24:25] <n1> i viewed it a couple different ways and it doesnt appear
[23:24:29] <n1> even tried to 'find' it on the page
[23:24:36] <mrcoolbp> ^^^^^^^^^^
[23:24:39] <mrcoolbp> I did that too
[23:25:30] <janrinok> techcrunch.com/2014/03/21/microview-shrinks-aruino-into-a-teeny-weeny-oled
[23:25:37] <mrcoolbp> anyway: Inline linking (also known as hotlinking...is the use of a linked object, often an image, from one site by a web page belonging to a second site
[23:26:24] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: I agree, but its the first time that I've ever seen a comment like that on techcrunch.
[23:26:50] <n1> its been about 10 years since ive seen it at all
[23:27:08] <mrcoolbp> you are also the only one seeing it on that page janrionk
[23:27:13] <mrcoolbp> janrinok
[23:27:14] <mrcoolbp> meh
[23:27:21] <xyzzyyzzyx> browser / OS ?
[23:27:50] <janrinok> I knew who you meant - IceWeasel 24.4.0 i.e. Firefox.
[23:28:18] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: there are at least 2 articles that should be rejected in there
[23:28:49] <janrinok> Yep, I agree. I have already marked some as well.
[23:29:28] <mrcoolbp> shouldn't they be rejected? (and how do we do that)?
[23:30:43] <janrinok> Yes, but if someone comes back and asks _why_ their story wasn't printed, then unless you were the person who rejected it you wouldn't know. I've been doing it to let LamX know why I was not using a story.
[23:31:32] <janrinok> Once LamX checked it, and if he agreed, he could then delete it. We will have to think of a better way of doing this now that we are growing again.
[23:32:15] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: how do we add those notes? (i'm guessing one of the 4 unlabled txt boxes?
[23:39:33] <janrinok> brb doc's here
[23:51:05] <n1> that submission about SCOTUS/Religion/Corporation is intriguing/curious
[23:55:17] <mrcoolbp> haven't gotten there yet
[23:55:34] <mrcoolbp> I was actually looking into the transatlantic vs display lag
[23:55:41] <mrcoolbp> but I got sidetracked
[23:56:29] <mrcoolbp> n1: I'm currently working on the story style doc: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[23:57:27] <n1> im just clicking around in the rabbit hole that is the admin pages, trying to get familiar with it before i get my lessons on how to be an editor
[23:57:46] <n1> that story just made me stop and go "ehhh"
[23:58:47] <n1> i shall read that now
[23:59:09] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk