#editorial | Logs for 2014-03-08 - Select a date

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[01:24:35] <Cactus> What do you guys think of the "Portability: Why inline assembler can be bad." submission?
[01:26:09] <mattie_p> I looked at that earlier... let me check it again
[01:26:38] <mattie_p> Oh, I remember that one
[01:27:05] <Cactus> Looking at that, and the Debugging Win one.
[01:27:07] <mattie_p> it didn't have a source, so this is kind of an "Ask Soylent" but didn't have a queston
[01:27:14] <Cactus> Yeah.
[01:27:34] <mattie_p> I think it might have an interesting take, but not sure we can post as is
[01:27:36] <Cactus> "Please, devs, at least make sure I can always, ALWAYS disable ALL of your assembler? And don't let it get broken and build it in anyways, like mplayer did?"
[01:28:08] <mattie_p> he included an email address, would you be interested in emailing him to resubmit as an ask soylent with a question for discussion?
[01:28:19] <Cactus> Yeah, I'll do that.
[01:28:26] <mattie_p> I don't know if I'll have time tonight
[01:28:27] <Cactus> He is in #Soylent, I'll try there.
[01:28:38] <Cactus> What about that Debugging one?
[01:28:47] <Cactus> Seems like a good Friday night post.
[01:29:52] <mattie_p> I like that one
[01:30:08] <mattie_p> I can see it run
[01:30:56] <mattie_p> btw, do you think my sub about Getty images is worthy?
[01:30:57] <Cactus> I'll queue that up soon, then start a few of the others.
[01:31:27] <mattie_p> also, you see the email from Dopefish? re: meeting time
[01:32:30] <Cactus> Looking now
[01:33:18] <Cactus> OH, That's EST? I thought he scheduled for PST. Half hour earlier is good with me. The earlier, the better.
[01:33:24] <Cactus> You?
[01:34:06] <mattie_p> I'm good, I already responded via email
[01:34:19] <mattie_p> Laminator should make the final call though
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[02:02:28] <MrBluze> anyone awake here ?
[02:04:38] <Cactus> NO
[02:04:54] <Cactus> Mattie is gone, and I'm the only other Ed here.
[02:05:00] <MrBluze> ok
[02:05:16] <MrBluze> Cactus: i am writing up a draft org chart to save ncommander time
[02:05:42] <Cactus> Have an easily postable version?
[02:05:49] <MrBluze> it's a dia
[02:05:55] <Cactus> Ah
[02:05:56] <MrBluze> im just drawing it at the moment
[02:06:10] <Cactus> I can give you the names of all the Editors, if you need.
[02:06:17] <MrBluze> nah no names
[02:06:19] <MrBluze> i want to know roles
[02:06:32] <Cactus> LaminatorX is lead.
[02:06:41] <MrBluze> what kind of roles are there.. apart from 'one who looks at stories and edits them'
[02:06:45] <Cactus> Other than that, level playing field
[02:06:57] <MrBluze> ok, tasks then
[02:07:18] <Cactus> That's really all we do, so far. Edit subs, go hunt for stories and make our own submissions, if need be
[02:07:20] <MrBluze> otherwise i just leave it as 'editorial' as a single box
[02:07:31] <Cactus> Probably best for now,
[02:07:34] <MrBluze> thats fine
[02:07:35] <MrBluze> :)
[02:07:38] <MrBluze> easy done
[02:07:52] <Cactus> I deal with Wiki and Boards too, for what that's worth these days
[02:07:59] <MrBluze> well there
[02:08:03] <Cactus> LamX has board admin too, I think.
[02:08:04] <MrBluze> editorial is wiki, stories
[02:08:21] <MrBluze> maybe press releases?
[02:08:24] <Cactus> Yes
[02:08:25] <MrBluze> eg: journals etc
[02:08:33] <MrBluze> ok three roles right there
[02:08:39] <Cactus> Whenever the big things need to go out, the ed's are all over it.
[02:09:08] <Cactus> Article hunting too, if you can word that up pretty.
[02:09:18] <MrBluze> journalism
[02:09:21] <MrBluze> thats article hunting
[02:10:17] <MrBluze> can change the terminology later
[02:10:19] <Cactus> Not primary source... ye.
[02:10:22] <Cactus> yet*
[02:10:53] <MrBluze> yes true
[02:11:01] <MrBluze> but it's like an intel organisation
[02:11:07] <MrBluze> u got the ppl collecting the newspaper clippings
[02:11:15] <MrBluze> u got the ppl collating it to make stories etc
[02:11:17] <Cactus> Yarr
[02:11:32] <MrBluze> turning data into information
[02:12:13] <Cactus> Doing that here is way more rewarding than doing it at work.
[02:12:50] <MrBluze> getting there
[02:12:56] <MrBluze> yeah
[02:13:22] <MrBluze> Editorial: Stories | Official Communication | Wiki
[02:13:41] <MrBluze> Artistic: User Interface | Graphics | Illustration
[02:13:44] <MrBluze> they are under content
[02:14:02] <Cactus> FunPika is the offical in-charge of the wiki (at least until the coup) - But he isn't an Editor.
[02:14:32] <MrBluze> i think all the jobs that do not include scripting and code, but involve creating something, are content
[02:14:45] <MrBluze> all the jobs that involve maintaining the software are sys
[02:14:52] <MrBluze> all the jobs that involve scripting and code are dev
[02:14:58] <MrBluze> and all the other jobs are admin
[02:15:04] <Cactus> Sounds reasonable to me.
[02:16:39] <MrBluze> yeah i'll go with it for now
[02:16:57] <MrBluze> it's a start anyway, people will have better ideas but it's always easier when there is something to start with
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[10:52:49] <janrinok> Any other eds around?
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[16:05:19] <janrinok> mattie_p: Are you around?
[16:06:21] <janrinok> Can anyone please confirm the time for this evening's meeting. The email moves from 1pm PST to 12:30 EST, but calls that a 30 minutes change?
[16:07:01] <mattie_p> just woke up
[16:07:22] <janrinok> mattie_p: Good morning to you - I think?
[16:07:41] <mattie_p> I think we originally thought it was 1pm PST, but we were wrong
[16:08:04] <mattie_p> yes, its 8, good afternoon to you
[16:08:20] <janrinok> The original email - which I found in the spam box, says PST
[16:09:05] <mattie_p> hrm
[16:09:13] <mattie_p> send more email until we get it right!
[16:09:17] <janrinok> lol
[16:09:42] <janrinok> by the way, give my apologies to tonya servo if I have disturbed you/her
[16:09:44] <mattie_p> can't hurt to confirm we're all on the same page,
[16:09:56] <mattie_p> nope, we're cool here
[16:11:13] <janrinok> I cannot make the new time of 12:30 EST - its in the middle of the busy 'evening meal / putting wife to bed' period.
[16:11:33] <mattie_p> she wanted to submit a story, but the first one wasn't well received, she'll submit again but its a small segment of nerd culture where she overlaps with us
[16:12:00] <janrinok> Encourage her - every post I make gets some criticism from someone!
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[16:13:13] <janrinok> I've submitted another 5 stories today - it seems like we also have an editor blank spot because we have not filled all the slots this am on time. I'm posting when I can but I really shouldn't be on the computer yet!
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[16:13:48] <janrinok> Ah, attack of the sedbot
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[16:15:28] <janrinok> xlefay: hello
[16:15:33] <xlefay> oops
[16:15:36] <janrinok> lolol
[16:15:39] <xlefay> something went wrong there... was testing something
[16:15:50] <janrinok> yep, I thought you were....
[16:16:26] * janrinok makes note that sedbot does not appear to work at the moment...
[16:18:30] <xlefay> sedbot's not here?
[16:19:04] <janrinok> possibly, but he seems to join and quick fairly rapidly
[16:19:10] <janrinok> quit*
[16:19:20] <xlefay> really? He's been stable though
[16:19:31] <janrinok> He has, but now isn't
[16:19:40] <martyb_afk> xlefay: what does s/he do?
[16:19:47] <xlefay> nah that's because foobarbazbot and I've been messing with it
[16:19:50] <xlefay> martyb_afk:
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[16:19:59] <xlefay> [03/08/14 16:18:20] <xlefay> I don't particularly like that movement :o
[16:20:01] <xlefay> [03/08/14 16:18:43] <xlefay> s/o/oo/g
[16:20:02] <xlefay> [03/08/14 16:18:43] <SedBot> <xlefay> I doon't particularly like that moovement :oo
[16:20:10] <xlefay> it does s/earch/andreplace/magic
[16:20:25] <martyb> ok.... but on what?
[16:20:35] <xlefay> e.g. I make a mistake in my message
[16:20:37] <martyb> s/what/what is the context/
[16:20:39] <xlefay> like nowsor
[16:20:45] <xlefay> so I type: s/nowsor/now/
[16:20:49] <xlefay> and it'll echo the fix back
[16:20:56] <xlefay> like in my little log excerpt
[16:21:17] <martyb> nothing happened for me?
[16:21:26] <xlefay> because the bot is only in #soylent
[16:21:33] <martyb> s/nothing happened/i did not see anything happen/
[16:21:38] <martyb> oh.
[16:21:45] <martyb> brb
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[21:52:32] <Dopefish> alright
[21:53:42] <Dopefish> we will begin our meeting at 2100 UTC
[21:53:48] <Dopefish> about 7 mins from now
[21:54:09] <mattie_p> we doing it in here?
[21:54:12] <Dopefish> yeah
[21:54:20] <janrinok> I'm here
[21:55:13] <mattie_p> good
[21:58:18] <Cactus> Eep! brb
[22:02:09] <mattie_p> be quick
[22:02:13] <Cactus> back
[22:02:15] <mattie_p> its time
[22:02:22] * NCommander waves
[22:02:31] <mattie_p> heya, NCommander
[22:02:36] * janrinok waves back again
[22:02:54] <Dopefish> heyoo
[22:02:59] <LaminatorX> Great. Any pressing business or issues that require immediate attention?
[22:03:14] <Dopefish> May I have the floor for just a minute? I wanted to do that passing the torch business
[22:03:14] <janrinok> not from me
[22:03:28] <LaminatorX> Go right ahead, Dopefish.
[22:03:43] <Dopefish> Thank you LaminatorX. I'll be brief.
[22:05:03] <Dopefish> As many of you undoubtedly know by now, LaminatorX has shown quite a bit of energy and enthusiasm for SoylentNews. This past week, I was not nearly as available as I would like to normally be, which as an overlord, is quite a problem.
[22:05:45] <Dopefish> Therefore, after hearing thoughts from the staff on the matter, I wish to hereby resign my post as overlord of editors and pass that post to LaminatorX, effective immediately.
[22:06:13] <Dopefish> It is my pleasure to have LaminatorX as the new torchbearer for the editors.
[22:06:24] <Dopefish> That is all I have. Thank you all for your time.
[22:06:44] <janrinok> Hope you'll stay with us thought
[22:06:48] <janrinok> though*
[22:06:48] <Dopefish> of course
[22:06:55] <Dopefish> I'm not ducking out of here :P
[22:07:09] <mattie_p> good. Quitters never win
[22:07:10] <Dopefish> I will let you all know I will still be an editor here
[22:07:28] <LaminatorX> Much appreciated, Dopefish. I appreciate the work you did getting the ball rolling, and am glad you're sticking around.
[22:07:52] <Dopefish> absolutely. I regret that my schedule and routine are not nearly as flexible as I would like it to be.
[22:08:06] <Dopefish> in terms of overlording, this transition makes the best sense for the good of SN
[22:08:40] <mattie_p> It keeps team continuity which makes perfect sense
[22:08:43] <Dopefish> Thank you LaminatorX for taking the post so enthusiastically, and your increased involvement over the past week during the recent change in command.
[22:08:46] <Dopefish> yep
[22:09:30] <LaminatorX> Really, I'm fortunate to have a day-job that allows me to invest the attention for part of the day.
[22:10:06] <NCommander> BTW, I'm having connectivity problems, I may be slow to respond or answer
[22:10:22] <mattie_p> NCommander, just do your best, its fine
[22:10:29] <LaminatorX> On a related note, NCommander, are we keeping the "overlord" nomenclature, or is that out. (I find it a bit much, personally).
[22:11:06] <LaminatorX> (he can answer as connectivity permits)
[22:11:34] <LaminatorX> Alright, any other hot potatoes?
[22:11:43] <mattie_p> We've tossed around the term cat-herder
[22:12:01] <mattie_p> umm, we need to get some guidance over to dev on how to pre-format our stories
[22:12:14] <mattie_p> guidance to submitters on "good" submissions
[22:12:27] <mattie_p> I think you promised one of us would work on the FAQ
[22:12:37] <LaminatorX> !todo
[22:12:37] <Juggalo> todo for laminatorx: 1) Draft FAQ 2) story style samples 3) review candidates for editor positions 4) watch ICS howto 5) find book on journalism ethics-read it
[22:12:58] <mattie_p> we need to determine what stories are "good" - in other words, what metric do we use, pageviews, comments, moderation, etc
[22:13:35] <mattie_p> we need to solicit stories/editors
[22:13:43] <mattie_p> not all of these need to be addressed today, btw
[22:13:58] <LaminatorX> Let's start with some nuts and bolts, then move into some of those topics.
[22:14:15] <mattie_p> ok
[22:14:15] <LaminatorX> As I understand it, the phpbb forums are going away. As such, we're going to need to take some of what we were doing there, and migrate it elsewhere.
[22:14:47] <LaminatorX> The available tools at the moment are email, the wiki, and slash itself.
[22:16:00] <Cactus> Well, what is it we needed form the forums? Static content, and a chance for the community to chime in, yeah?
[22:16:20] <LaminatorX> I think that we can use the wiki for style development. Style examples can go on a wiki page, with it's associated talk page and history for the work itself.
[22:16:21] <mattie_p> well, for internal communication I'm fine with email. Just a matter of when a conversation needs to go public
[22:16:48] <Dopefish> agreed
[22:17:39] <mattie_p> I bet we can get an editor email list established, much as we now have one for all staff
[22:17:56] <LaminatorX> I think we can also use our journals on slash for some of the things we had in mind for the forums.
[22:18:27] <mattie_p> sure
[22:18:30] <LaminatorX> Where we want to have a public discussion where the community can comment, that would work well enough.
[22:19:02] <LaminatorX> An editor email list would be helpful too. We have an informal dl now, but it's not archived by mailman.
[22:19:52] <mattie_p> archives are always good
[22:21:37] <LaminatorX> I considered making a user on SN called "Editorial," for the sake of hosting the journal and such, rather than doing it in my own. Does anyone see a problem with that, conceptually?
[22:21:59] <janrinok> No it makes sense
[22:22:47] <mattie_p> nope
[22:23:03] <Dopefish> that sounds fine LaminatorX
[22:23:25] <Cactus> Makes sense to me. Make sure at least one other person as the keys to the account though, I guess.
[22:24:32] <LaminatorX> NCommander, would there be a problem with all the editors having said password, or would you prefer just two of us have it for safety?
[22:25:33] <LaminatorX> We'll move our story content and pace discussions there, move style to the wiki, and staffing to email.
[22:25:48] <mattie_p> that sounds like a plan
[22:25:57] <janrinok> thumbs up from me
[22:26:00] <Cactus> Yarr
[22:26:21] <LaminatorX> Any questions more to add on that topic before we move on?
[22:26:34] <LaminatorX> "questions or more"
[22:26:34] <Cactus> Neg
[22:27:05] <mattie_p> nope, I'm good with that
[22:27:21] <Dopefish> same here
[22:27:41] <janrinok> i'm good
[22:27:57] <LaminatorX> Alright. Let's talk submission volume and story pace.
[22:28:15] <mattie_p> sure
[22:28:54] <LaminatorX> In the poll, we got a plurality, though not a majority, for just posting stories as quickly as we have time to edit them well.
[22:29:14] <mattie_p> agree with that assessment
[22:29:16] <janrinok> That's fine when we have a lot to choose from but...
[22:29:32] <janrinok> The queue is almost empty today.
[22:29:35] <Cactus> Yeah, if that's the plan, people need to submit much quicker too.
[22:29:45] <Cactus> Been borderline empty for a few days.
[22:29:55] <mattie_p> well, right now we're still queing them
[22:30:00] <LaminatorX> That is to be respected, but at the same time, our story volume doesn't support that at the moment if we also want to have new stories posted throghout the day.
[22:30:01] <janrinok> I've been doing less editing and more reporting today
[22:30:10] <mattie_p> do we want to simply unload and then let everyone know?
[22:30:37] <Cactus> Maybe let everyone in IRC know?
[22:31:13] <janrinok> I think there isn't a single answer. During the week, we have one level of activity
[22:31:13] <LaminatorX> I think we should balance our approach.
[22:31:20] <janrinok> and at weekends it is very different
[22:31:40] <janrinok> we should match them
[22:32:11] <Cactus> Also, I'd like to get a list of the sites YOU guys frequent for news. I'd like to flesh out an RSS client with just potential stuff for this site.
[22:32:22] <LaminatorX> I think it is desirable to both keep a minimum update pace of perhaps every two hours, while not letting stories pile up or delay timely content.
[22:32:39] <janrinok> agreed
[22:32:57] <Dopefish> yes
[22:33:22] <Dopefish> we don't need to overwhelm the site with stories every 5 minutes. I want to give each piece a chance to foster some creative discussion in the comments
[22:33:35] <janrinok> However, the only way to guarantee timely output is to ensure that we have round-the-clock editors
[22:33:35] <Dopefish> but yeah striking that balance will be interesting
[22:33:41] <Dopefish> right
[22:34:02] <Cactus> Looks like our last queued story just dropped.
[22:34:22] <LaminatorX> Regular updates also give people a reason to return to the site throughout the day, rather than just checking once a day.
[22:35:58] <LaminatorX> We're obiously not 'round-the-clock at the moment, but with last-weeks perfect storm of busy editors past, things have improved.
[22:36:21] <janrinok> A potential problem is today for example..
[22:36:43] <janrinok> If I am away reporting I do not feel it is right if I am also releasing my own stories
[22:36:53] <LaminatorX> Agreed.
[22:37:05] <janrinok> The second pair of eyes is important
[22:37:15] <mattie_p> Same here, get someone else to release
[22:37:26] <LaminatorX> Although I think releasing yourself is justified if it's seriously hot news.
[22:37:43] <janrinok> If there is someone around - this morning (my time) it wasn't possible
[22:38:04] <janrinok> I agree hot stories are different
[22:38:11] -!- martyb [martyb!~a6b50349@Soylent/Volunteer/martyb] has joined #editorial
[22:38:33] <mattie_p> well, we'll have to use our best judgement there
[22:38:42] <janrinok> I pushed the Stolen Passports on 777 story because most were in the first meeting
[22:39:04] <LaminatorX> Let's summarize what seemed to work this week:
[22:40:01] <LaminatorX> 1)If the subs bin has more than 20 stories, publish as frequently as time permits.
[22:41:09] <LaminatorX> 2) If 10-20 publish timely things right away, but queue a few things out for later in case we start to get low.
[22:42:15] <LaminatorX> 3) If single digits, slow the pace down to 90-120 minutes and start looking for stories. Call for submissions on irc, and then find one or two yourself.
[22:42:35] <LaminatorX> No matter how low it is though, hot news doesn't wait.
[22:42:52] <mattie_p> sounds good
[22:43:13] <janrinok> 4) if a story has been in the queue for more than 'x' days - delete it UNLESS there is a comment explaining why it should be kept
[22:43:38] <janrinok> 'x' to be decided
[22:44:04] <LaminatorX> That's a good idea too.
[22:44:26] <janrinok> Otherwise the queue look healthy but can be 25% or more junk
[22:44:33] <janrinok> looks*
[22:45:13] <LaminatorX> A low subs bin is where the editors email list would be handy. Not everyone may be able to go find a story at that moment, but is even two of us can spare a few minutes in the moment, that gets the site out of a jam.
[22:45:17] <Cactus> Yeah, after a story has sat around for a few days, it's obvious it's not going to go up.
[22:45:41] <mattie_p> I think we had some non-editors who were interested in signing up for an email list, IIRC
[22:45:47] <janrinok> Cactus: unless we are saving it for a quiet period
[22:45:57] <LaminatorX> Perhaps we do a weekly cleanup.
[22:46:03] <Cactus> Yeah, but that's what the notes are for.
[22:46:05] <mattie_p> we could use a second list to reach out to interested submitters and editors in training
[22:46:07] <janrinok> like it ^
[22:46:23] <janrinok> Cactus: ok you are right
[22:46:32] <Dopefish> yeah. Oh and we need to get the darn <br> <br> thing fixed on the submissions block
[22:46:40] <Dopefish> I think NCommander said he would work on that
[22:47:05] <Dopefish> not that I don't mind cleaning that up, but if I am editing a post on my mobile, hunting and pecking for those line breaks is tedious at best
[22:47:11] <LaminatorX> Conversations have begun on that subject. We'll come back to it in a moment.
[22:47:13] <Cactus> I like the idea of having more editors. If more people can edit, it will ease the general workload.
[22:47:17] <Dopefish> ok
[22:47:47] <Cactus> And if there is nothing to edit, more people can be actiuvely wrangling material for submitting.
[22:47:53] <Cactus> actively*
[22:48:12] <janrinok> And 'reporters' for those who need a more flexible timescale but want to be more than a general submitter?
[22:48:23] <LaminatorX> I think we want to bring on more editors sooner rather than later. That will help with much of this.
[22:48:36] <janrinok> agreed
[22:48:53] <LaminatorX> Any other thoughts on pacing before we move on to style?
[22:48:57] <Cactus> Just bring people in, one at a time so we can get them comfortable with everything, until it's obvious we don't need more.
[22:49:10] <mattie_p> one thing about bringing people in
[22:49:21] <mattie_p> we have them play around on slashcott.org for a couple of days
[22:49:26] <martyb> LaminatorX: Hi! I was lurking and wondered if I could chime in for a moment?
[22:49:26] <Cactus> And maybe extend the invitation to our current best submitters.
[22:49:29] <mattie_p> before we bring them here live with editor bits
[22:49:44] <Cactus> mattie_p, good idea.
[22:50:00] <janrinok> mattie_p: that's a very good idea - it would avoid a repeat of my mistake :)
[22:50:00] <LaminatorX> Great Idea.
[22:50:50] <LaminatorX> Martyb, was it you I talked to about CSS and stuff the other night? I thought it was mrcoolbp, but when I emailed he had no idea what I was talking about.
[22:51:18] <martyb> could be... refresh my memory, but before you do... let me put this out
[22:51:20] <martyb> I suggest having a random delta added/subtracted from posting time; not knowing exactly when a story would go up would make me refresh more often; psychology of only occasional gratification.
[22:51:45] <martyb> atm, I know to check at the 1/2 hr or on the hr for a new story
[22:51:51] <janrinok> agreed - I try to do already rather than hit the hour or half-hour
[22:51:58] <martyb> takes away some of the risk/gratification equation
[22:52:14] <martyb> janrinok: great! that was the idea.
[22:52:26] <martyb> LaminatorX: do you want to discuss the css stuff now?
[22:52:48] <LaminatorX> Good advice. Really, we could just let the final minute digit fall wherever it lies when you hit "Preview."
[22:53:19] <martyb> LaminatorX++ excellent idea!
[22:53:19] <Juggalo> karma - laminatorx: 2
[22:53:20] <Cactus> I can do that. I tend to set it on nice, even times.
[22:53:37] <Dopefish> hmm that's interesting you bring that up martyb
[22:53:48] <Dopefish> I suppose a bit of uncertainty with posts is better
[22:53:53] <LaminatorX> Let's go with style now.
[22:55:47] <LaminatorX> Martyb, can you fill us in on what's changing soon already? That will inform the rest of the conversation.
[22:56:31] <martyb> LaminatorX: You seemed to go quiet... I saw nothing after "Let's go with style now".
[22:56:47] <LaminatorX> I was vague, sorry. :)
[22:56:51] <martyb> LaminatorX: Unfortunately, I'm not up on what's changing soon. sorry. =(
[22:57:43] <LaminatorX> It must have been mrcool I was talking to then. That's what's dicey about all this late night IRC. It's murder on memory retention.
[22:58:01] <martyb> btw, I think it *was* me who was talking with you about style.... had to do with formatting in the submissions text entry box, IIRC.
[22:58:26] <LaminatorX> OK, yes, that's right.
[22:58:33] <martyb> ISTRC that paulej72 might have3 been in on it, too... but don't quote me on that~
[22:58:46] <martyb> ahh!
[22:58:55] <martyb> I believe it had to do with creating new "tags"
[22:59:29] <LaminatorX> I was going to get you something the next morning, but ended up editing NCommander's big transition post instead.
[22:59:41] <martyb> like <dept>text</dept> to indicate *what* a piece of text was intended for.??
[22:59:58] <LaminatorX> Right, <byline> <booktitle>, that sort of thing.
[23:00:06] <martyb> bingo!
[23:00:07] <paulej72> that was audioguy that was discussing that
[23:00:23] * martyb sits corrected.
[23:01:15] <mattie_p> were we creating new tags or adding classes to existing tags?
[23:01:43] <paulej72> slash would probably strip those non standard tags off we would need to fix the strip code to deal with them and style them
[23:01:57] <Cactus> Ooooh, ok, what you were saying before makes more sense now.
[23:02:06] <martyb> mattie_p: good question. I think at the time, we were discussing the creation of new tags...
[23:02:06] <LaminatorX> I asked girlwhowasplugged out to put some citation format samples on the forum since he's a current scholar, but that doesn't seem to have happenned. (a dissertation takes a lot of time, or so I have heard.)
[23:02:26] <martyb> but that was just brainstorming...
[23:02:34] <martyb> the question is, now, what do you *need*?
[23:03:25] <LaminatorX> The most pressing thing is for the story submission perl-wash to stop formatting stories to archeo-slashdot spec.
[23:03:27] <martyb> I'm also thinking along the lines of making it easier for submitters to *help* you
[23:03:46] <martyb> maybe pre-populate the text-entry box with these "tags"?
[23:04:01] <LaminatorX> We're having to undo it's handiwork every single time, at the moment.
[23:04:04] <martyb> or would it be better/easier to provide additional input boxes on the form?
[23:04:24] <martyb> blegh.
[23:05:01] <janrinok> Which would make it easier for th editor - the programming side is write once use forever
[23:05:23] <martyb> LaminatorX: computers are good at automation... isn't there some kind of post-processing capability available in templatese?
[23:05:49] <LaminatorX> We do a more promenant byline than /. does, and don't italicise everything.
[23:06:08] <LaminatorX> The submissions are getting pre-formatted now, yes.
[23:06:34] <LaminatorX> I've not looked at the code that does it though.
[23:06:51] <martyb> on second thought, it might be better to fix *that* at the source and get it to stop helping you so much...
[23:07:04] <martyb> instead of trying to clean up after it put the stuff in.
[23:08:28] <janrinok> I always seem to type <blockquote><div> .... </div></blockquote> could we combine the two? Can anyone see a problem?
[23:08:51] <LaminatorX> Lets hold this for a moment, I don't want to have a three hour meeting. We can dig more into style after.
[23:09:03] <martyb> janrinok: umm, why the <div>? what does that do for you
[23:09:11] <martyb> k.
[23:09:21] <janrinok> martyb: later..
[23:09:31] <martyb> janrinok: yup.
[23:10:44] <LaminatorX> The one other thing I had was staffing. I'd like to bring in two more editors in the next week or so. Does anyone have any standouts in mind?
[23:11:26] <janrinok> I gave you a suggestion the other day - AnonTechie - but I'm not certain that he would be a good ed. I just don't know
[23:11:37] <Cactus> AnonTechie submits often, and usually accepted, for that's worth
[23:11:49] <janrinok> He only seems to do copy/pasta but his stuff is good.
[23:11:53] <Dopefish> yeah and his submissions tend to be of good quality
[23:11:59] <martyb> I don't have copious amounts of free time, but can help out once in a while
[23:11:59] <mattie_p> Angry Jesus?
[23:12:03] <Dopefish> haha
[23:12:23] <mattie_p> he's got an interesting one in the hopper now http://soylentnews.org
[23:12:25] <LaminatorX> He's certainly an article hound, but his summaries are so thin that I can't really judge what his writing skills are like.
[23:12:37] <Dopefish> In a case like that
[23:12:46] <martyb> LaminatorX: who are our top submitters?
[23:12:55] <Dopefish> I say we give him a challenge to write up something with more substance
[23:13:05] <Dopefish> that is, if he is interested in the gig
[23:13:19] <Cactus> Can always through a call out top the IRC - Looking for more editors; find and article to submit, and wow us with your summary.
[23:13:46] <janrinok> DF I know what you are trying to achieve, but I found that a challenge until I understood the editing process. Now it is still a challenge...
[23:14:02] <Dopefish> understandable
[23:14:03] <LaminatorX> Truthfully, I haven't wanted to risk rubbing him the wrong way with criticism of his submissions, as he currently brings us about 30% of our material.
[23:14:42] <janrinok> The reporting task and editing task are not the same job.
[23:14:53] <Cactus> True.
[23:15:04] <mattie_p> they aren't but they are related
[23:15:08] <janrinok> agreed
[23:15:15] <Cactus> Find someone good at one, and interested, and we can worth them so they can accomplish the other task as well.
[23:15:27] <Cactus> work with them*
[23:15:38] <LaminatorX> Were there any other candidates that cought your eye in the initial writing submissions, Dopefish?
[23:16:10] <martyb> janrinok: agreed. i can write, and write well, but I then want another set of eyes to catch my mistakes. ..
[23:16:22] <martyb> otoh, I can edit well, if it's someone else's submission.
[23:16:59] <janrinok> yep, two pairs of eyes are essential if we are to avoid mistooks, mostiks, or whatever
[23:17:13] <martyb> LOL!
[23:17:24] <Cactus> martyb, Well, the beauty of the system we have is that -usually- someone else starts the whole process off for you.
[23:17:39] * martyb notes that a cyclops could not apply :(
[23:18:17] <LaminatorX> We woukd just need four cylcopes, that's all.
[23:18:22] <martyb> Cactus: that's great! it takes a *community*, not just a couple of super-folk
[23:18:32] <martyb> LaminatorX: ROFL!!!!!!!!
[23:20:14] <LaminatorX> I'm going to go through the audition writing samples before the forums go bybye. I'll contact a couple of promising ones. If anyone comes to your minds as well. Do point me at them.
[23:20:32] <Dopefish> LaminatorX++ good one
[23:20:33] <Juggalo> karma - laminatorx: 3
[23:21:18] <martyb> LaminatorX: I volunteer some time on thursdays and an occasional pm shift, if it will help out.
[23:21:43] <martyb> LaminatorX: I can pop in, push a couple down the pipe, and so on.
[23:21:59] <martyb> LaminatorX: It won't *solve* the problem, but could lessen it somewhat.
[23:22:27] <martyb> I can practice on slashcott, already pushed a story out over there.
[23:22:31] <LaminatorX> That would be great. We'll find some time this week to get you up to speed on the layout situation. That would actually be quite helpul in seeing where we want to go with it from here.
[23:22:59] <martyb> LaminatorX: my thoughts, too. I'll get to see the frustration from the user perspecctive...
[23:23:12] <mattie_p> exactly
[23:23:14] <LaminatorX> So that was all I had from an agenda standpoint. Does anyone else have anything that they would like to see addressed?
[23:23:26] <martyb> and be able to couch things in terms so that they can be more easily implemented.
[23:23:32] <Cactus> http://soylentnews.org
[23:23:40] <Cactus> This is still in the "hold" section.
[23:23:51] <Cactus> We decided best we to post it?
[23:23:53] <mattie_p> martyb, we need a way to provide easy feedback to submitters, preferably from within slashcode
[23:24:23] <martyb> mattie_p: hmmm, example? not quite following you.
[23:24:47] <LaminatorX> Let's deal with that story first. I want to hear opinions.
[23:24:53] <mattie_p> ok
[23:25:06] <mattie_p> well, I haven't noticed any problems here
[23:25:26] <LaminatorX> I don't think it wise to post it in its current form, but do think it might be a worthwhile discussion to have.
[23:25:33] <mattie_p> and I think I've been open about my religion, though not in your face with it
[23:25:54] <janrinok> I think it deserves a response. People shouldn't be challenged on a belief - BUT challenging the science is a different, and valid, matter.
[23:26:13] <janrinok> And the problem is there is NO science in religious beliefs
[23:26:39] <martyb> my take is that we, properly speaking, don't have much control on what the community posts in the comments...
[23:27:00] <mattie_p> yeah, nor should we
[23:27:03] <martyb> but having the discussion could help the community come to its own conclusion on what is the desired way to handle things...
[23:27:08] <Cactus> Yeah, but I think what the submitter is more worries about is the tendency of conv's to end up shit-talking religion for no good reason.
[23:27:18] <martyb> set a general understanding of the "tone" of the community.
[23:27:25] <Cactus> Kind of a faith-based Godwin thing
[23:28:00] <martyb> hmmm... if moderation is done right, e.g. offtopic, then it should be self-correcting... right?
[23:28:03] <Cactus> faith-focused, not based
[23:28:10] <Cactus> Should be.
[23:28:16] <mattie_p> well, we're a science and tech news site. Lets be honest, how often does religion really need to come up in those conversations?
[23:28:27] <Cactus> Rarely, if things stay on topic.
[23:28:28] <janrinok> If they are challenging the 'science' of, say, the Parting of the Red Sea, that is valid. A faith is something you have despite what others might tell you.
[23:28:32] <Cactus> But... you know how that goes.
[23:28:36] <martyb> mattie_p: I'll be damned if I know!
[23:28:55] <martyb> ;^)
[23:29:13] <mattie_p> janrinok, would that be news, though? Any joe schmoe can challenge the science of the red sea crossing
[23:29:20] <mattie_p> no scientists needed
[23:29:22] <LaminatorX> We've already had it naturally do so a couple of times, and the times it does come up are mostly going to be in conflict with modernity.
[23:29:34] <Dopefish> this reminds me of the Ham vs Nye debate
[23:29:58] <janrinok> No, but imagine we are discussing dinosaurs from million of years ago, and someone insists that the world only began 4000 years ago.
[23:29:59] <martyb> I'm curious. How much of a problem have we had with this, so far?
[23:30:05] <martyb> Maybe this is a non-problem?
[23:30:09] <LaminatorX> We had a followup story to that, and a story about a fatwa against participating in the one-way Mars mission.
[23:30:19] <Dopefish> I haven't seen too much of this bashing here on SN
[23:30:36] <Dopefish> there are trolls here for sure... but it isn't a big problem yet
[23:30:38] <Cactus> Me either.
[23:30:47] <janrinok> A few comments have been quickly modded down but certainly less than the other site
[23:30:56] <Cactus> Not a large enough group of people for the trolls to be attracted to us.
[23:31:01] <martyb> LaminatorX: I suspect the less we publish stories that have religious leanings, the less it sets the tone that those things are discussable(sp?) here.
[23:32:38] <Cactus> Anyone want to work on it, and post it?
[23:32:39] <LaminatorX> I think that there wlll continue to be occasional topics that touch on intersections of sci-tech and religeon.
[23:33:21] <martyb> Cactus: I have an idea... do we have an e-mail address for that submitter?
[23:33:27] <Cactus> Neg
[23:33:28] <LaminatorX> If someone sent in a story about new lab methods making vast swaths of the Deas Sea scrolls suddenly more legible, for example, I'd want to run it.
[23:33:39] <Cactus> Pending submission by Not Joining Yet at 2014-03-06
[23:33:52] <martyb> Cactus: myabe suggest that by posting it as a story, it might rouse of the very problem we're trying to contain.
[23:33:59] <martyb> brb afk
[23:34:03] <LaminatorX> that's my worry, to some extent.
[23:34:08] <janrinok> ...and religious people must accept that we don't all subscribe to their own belief. That is not a criticism of their belief, just a statement of fact.
[23:34:59] <LaminatorX> I think a tone of mutual respect in differing perspectives is key.
[23:35:05] <janrinok> agreed
[23:35:07] <martyb> okay, I've got to take care of something. back in 5min or so.
[23:35:11] <mattie_p> look, does anyone dispute that I might be the best qualified to answe this question?
[23:35:13] <LaminatorX> Mostly we've been good at that so far.
[23:35:31] <LaminatorX> I'd love to hear what you have to say on the matter, mattie.
[23:35:36] <martyb> mattie_p: you've got my vote.
[23:35:47] <Cactus> Again, I think the submitter more worries about pointlessly devolving in to faith-hate.. the same way nazi's are brought in to topics that have zero to do with politics.
[23:35:54] <mattie_p> Well, I told Barrabas what class I was taking, and I've been open with it to others as well
[23:36:25] <mattie_p> I tell you that from my perspective, of a person taking a seminary class on biblical interpretation, who has been open but not pushy with religion
[23:36:36] <mattie_p> Betteridge's law applies: the answer from my end is no
[23:36:59] <mattie_p> Everyone I've talked to has been interested but not all like "Oh, Christian? well f___ you then"
[23:37:02] <Dopefish> brb need to step away for a bit
[23:37:43] <mattie_p> So I don't think its an issue, at least here in IRC
[23:37:51] <mattie_p> which I consider the core of the site and community
[23:38:03] <mattie_p> I think we'll tend to self-moderate that way as well in the main site
[23:39:16] <mattie_p> anyway, I need to step out for a few as well and intervene with my children
[23:40:01] <Cactus> I don't need to bail right this sec, but my time is limited now as well.
[23:40:20] <LaminatorX> On that note, let's leave the story in the hold bin for now. We can dust it off if it seems like we're starting to have a problem, but I don't want to agitate one by running it.
[23:40:33] <janrinok> makes sense.
[23:41:11] <Cactus> I suppose the submitter will need to keep an eye on responses, and judge for him/herself
[23:42:17] <janrinok> Its a pity that the system doesn't allow PMs direct to useids.
[23:42:35] <martyb> i'm back... catching up
[23:43:19] <martyb> janrinok: that's why asked if we had an e-mail addy for him/her.
[23:43:30] <LaminatorX> Let's wrap upthe meeting then. I'll find out what we need to do to get an official editors mailing list, and make an Editorial user on slash. I need two volunteers to start a style/layout page on the wiki, another to start a reporting resources page. Any takers?
[23:44:01] <janrinok> Yes, but we already send a message saying 'Your sub has been accepted', cant't we sent one saying 'Please contact xyz'?
[23:44:36] <Cactus> Reporting Resouces page: What do you mean by this, exactly?
[23:44:44] <martyb> janrinok: I like the idea.
[23:44:45] <Cactus> News outlets?
[23:44:48] -!- GungnirSniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[23:45:00] <Cactus> janrinok, That'd be nice.
[23:45:18] <LaminatorX> A list of lhandy links to news outlets, journals, nanog, ISC, FSF blog, etc.
[23:45:19] <Cactus> I needed to contact a submitter last night .. luckily he was idling in IRC
[23:45:41] <Cactus> LaminatorX, Ah, ok. Good. That's what I was hoping for.
[23:45:58] <Cactus> I can start that up with a few basics a bit later tonight if no one else has.
[23:46:05] <martyb> LaminatorX: sounds great! Note that it will change over time.
[23:46:05] <janrinok> Cactus: I can give you quite a few links
[23:46:13] <Cactus> janrinok, Please do.
[23:46:18] <martyb> Cactus: me too
[23:46:27] <LaminatorX> That's why this belongs on the wiki. :)
[23:46:53] <Cactus> You both have my email? If you want to throw a quick and dirty list at me, I'll make it pretty with links for the wiki.
[23:47:05] <martyb> LaminatorX: would you like a copy of the chat log posted?
[23:47:15] <janrinok> Cactus: I don't think so - I get confused between nicks and real people
[23:47:23] <martyb> Cactus: I don't think I do... unless are you "c" @ sn.org ??
[23:47:42] <Cactus> Barbee84@Gmail.com
[23:47:46] <janrinok> got it
[23:47:51] <Cactus> Cactus / Carl
[23:47:55] <LaminatorX> Yes please. We'll email it to girlwhowaspluggedout and post a link in the topic here and on the new Editorial user's journal.
[23:48:20] <martyb> LaminatorX: was that directed to me?
[23:48:29] <LaminatorX> !todo Request official email list
[23:48:29] <Juggalo> todo item 6 added
[23:48:37] <LaminatorX> Yes, about the logs.
[23:49:02] <LaminatorX> !todo create Editorial user on SN main site.
[23:49:02] <Juggalo> todo item 7 added
[23:49:33] <Cactus> Ok, we 'bouts done? I need to head out for a while.
[23:49:34] <martyb> LaminatorX: okay. fyi, I only have another 5 minutes, 10 tops and then I have to go. Anything after that won't appear. also, I won't be able to post it until later.
[23:49:51] <LaminatorX> That's fine. We're basically done.
[23:49:54] <martyb> I make a motion to adjurn the meeting
[23:50:05] <Dopefish> I second the motion
[23:50:09] <LaminatorX> old for one moment
[23:50:35] <martyb> hold on....
[23:50:40] <LaminatorX> We've got the resources wiki covered, was anyone starting a style sample one?
[23:50:48] <janrinok> I'll be one.
[23:50:51] <martyb> I came in late... don't know if I have thefirst part of the meeting...
[23:51:06] <Dopefish> martyb I can fill you in on the missing details
[23:51:13] <martyb> what I have starts 1h12m ago.
[23:51:13] <Dopefish> and there is also a log you can access
[23:51:22] <janrinok> LaminatorX: did you get my offer?
[23:51:27] <LaminatorX> Loggie is in the room.
[23:51:47] <martyb> on my way... brb
[23:52:10] <LaminatorX> I did janrinok, thanks. With that, let's call it adjourned. Thanks everyone. Great meeting.
[23:52:20] <Cactus> Alright, I'll check you guys in a few hours.
[23:52:29] <Dopefish> thank you!
[23:52:35] <janrinok> Thanks - I'm away to my bed. cu guys!
[23:52:39] <Dopefish> great job LaminatorX
[23:52:42] <martyb> thanks for letting me join in! You've got a great team!
[23:52:44] <Cactus> G'night
[23:52:47] <Dopefish> a better meeting than I ever would have done
[23:53:05] -!- Cactus has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:53:08] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]
[23:53:09] <martyb> LaminatorX: as for th elog... leave the time stamps as they are? and I'm curios what time zone those are.
[23:53:18] <LaminatorX> Thanks, DF. I'm grateful for your support.
[23:53:32] <Dopefish> of course! Have a great night!
[23:53:39] Dopefish is now known as Dopefish_afk
[23:54:17] <martyb> LaminatorX: I think I answered my own question. the time stamps in the log are UTC. right?
[23:54:31] <LaminatorX> I believe they are yes.
[23:54:45] <martyb> LaminatorX: k, thanks!
[23:55:08] <martyb> well, time for me to go, too. c ya all later!
[23:56:00] <LaminatorX> If anyone has time, post a story before you go. If not, that's cool too. I'll cover it.
[23:57:21] <martyb> LaminatorX: question: do you want the meeting logs in their *entirety*...
[23:57:49] <martyb> LaminatorX: or should I pull /me stuff and the channel messages?