#dev | Logs for 2017-02-22

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[12:28:33] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: was wondering if I could get an update on when Top Level Comments will have their behavior changed so that they respect threshold/breakthrough like all the other comments? Right now, no matter what their score, they are being displayed in full.
[12:30:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, this morning
[12:30:20] <Bytram> YAY!
[12:30:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> working on figuring out why they aren't as we speak
[12:30:35] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++
[12:30:35] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 7
[12:30:37] <Bytram> !woop
[12:30:37] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[13:11:19] <Bytram> according to TMB: "Bytram, think tos is copacetic now on dev."
[13:11:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://dev.soylentnews.org
[13:11:49] <aqu4>  ^ "320170215e - Test Story - Please DO NOT Moderate and DO NOT Post Comments - Comment Score Testing - Dev.SN"
[13:12:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> wait, when did aqu4 start doing titles?
[13:12:32] <Bytram> quite a while, now
[13:12:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh
[13:14:13] <Bytram> I'd seen it, but didn't really *notice* it, if you know what I mean? Was more like, since when do the titles start appearing in light gray
[13:14:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> bug in live is even if a subcomment hits Breakthrough, threshold stays da boss.
[13:14:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~first
[13:14:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, 404
[13:14:58] <Bytram> so, on prod, threshold suppresses breakthroughs?
[13:16:29] <Bytram> I'm seeing TLC: Comment_0001 (Score: -1) displayed in full with: https://dev.soylentnews.org
[13:16:30] <aqu4>  ^ "320170215e - Test Story - Please DO NOT Moderate and DO NOT Post Comments - Comment Score Testing - Dev.SN"
[13:16:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, yes.
[13:17:08] <Bytram> Ummm, no.
[13:17:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, yes to prod question
[13:17:31] <Bytram> Oh, okay then!
[13:17:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> and yes that should be expanded because it's a TLC and has visible children
[13:18:02] * cmn32480 remembers why he has no clue that aqu4 does titles.. that bot is on ignore
[13:20:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> TLCs are always expanded unless hidden by Threshold
[13:24:37] -!- clorox|2 [clorox|2!~bleach@39-155-605-112.dhcp.wlwl.wa.charter.com] has joined #dev
[13:25:36] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I disagree. It was agreed a few days ago that you had special-cased top level comments for NC, but then after a little discussion, it was decided that was a misunderstanding, and that TLCs should NOT be special cased... to which I saw you reply that you knew where in the code that was done and should be easy to change.
[13:26:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> no... he said they should not be special cased for Threshold
[13:26:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> check prod. TLCs are always expanded unless they're below Threshold
[13:27:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://soylentnews.org
[13:27:19] <aqu4>  ^ "3SoylentNews Comments | Linux Usability Improvements"
[13:27:21] <paulej72> and I beleve that they should adhear to breakthourhg
[13:27:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, they do on TNG
[13:27:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> TOS is the only mode that doesn't collapse them according to Breakthrough
[13:28:06] <paulej72> but they should on tos as well as that is the current way things work
[13:28:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, in threaded/IT TLCs are always completely visible unless they're below threshold
[13:29:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> on prod
[13:29:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> see link above
[13:30:17] * Bytram looked at the linked page.
[13:30:31] <Bytram> in my opinion, that is a bug on prod
[13:30:34] <paulej72> https://soylentnews.org
[13:30:36] <aqu4>  ^ "3SoylentNews Comments | Linux Usability Improvements"
[13:30:47] <paulej72> I have reparent truned on
[13:30:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, after a certain point, bugs become expected behavior
[13:30:50] <Bytram> we provide controls to the user and they do not seem to be obeyed
[13:31:12] <Bytram> understood, but disagree...
[13:31:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh. we don't reparent in the new stuff though
[13:31:38] <Bytram> that kind of behavior is, in no small part, part of why I run -1/-1 on prod -- cause the damn controls didn't make any sense
[13:31:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, NC specifically said they should do that and i'm writing TOS to happify him.
[13:31:47] <paulej72> I understand, but when you set threshold above 1 for that story tlc are not displayed
[13:32:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, true but that's another matter entirely
[13:32:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> and dev does that now too
[13:33:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless you hit breakthrough somewhere below cause even NC thinks breakthrough should override threshold.
[13:33:42] <Bytram> If I understand this correctly, then, if I can submit the most spammy, incendiary, rage-filled, misogynstic, arrant nonsense as a top-level comment, there is nothing anyone can do to suppress its appearing in full
[13:34:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, threshold hides tlcs. that's what i just wrote today.
[13:34:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless something below hits breakthrough
[13:34:38] * Bytram is so confused
[13:35:10] <paulej72> hrm, I see on prod it does work like you decribe, I just think it is incorrect :)
[13:35:11] <Bytram> first off, is there ANYTHNG we can do to suppress the appearance of controls that are ignored depending on MODE? This is driving me ever-loving NUTS!
[13:35:30] <Bytram> paulej72: thansk!
[13:35:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, yes but it's comfortably incorrect to a lot of people =P
[13:35:55] <paulej72> Yes, but I did not have a chance to fix it yet.
[13:36:00] <Bytram> it is very UNcomfortably INcorrect to me
[13:36:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya can't just go around removing bugs that people think are the way things are supposed to be.
[13:36:37] <paulej72> I need to fix some subs to pass an extra parameter.
[13:36:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> hmm?
[13:37:04] <paulej72> then I can not display thresh if not tos
[13:37:15] <Bytram> so long as we 'splain it, why not? We're entirely *removing* modes that used to exist.
[13:37:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, thresh is ignored by tng
[13:37:28] <Bytram> document that this is the new behavior
[13:37:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> entirely
[13:37:35] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: YES!
[13:37:53] <paulej72> and flat
[13:38:03] <Bytram> paulej72: exactly!
[13:38:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, i think flat uses threshold
[13:38:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> it should anyway to hide spammy titles
[13:38:28] <paulej72> not from what I read in the code, please feel free to correct me
[13:38:29] <Bytram> so in two different places, we provide a control that the UI ignores -- totally messes with my mental model of what does what
[13:38:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> subject: eat a shitburger
[13:38:57] <paulej72> I only saw thresh used with if mode=threadtos
[13:39:18] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: "threshold has no effect on TNG or Flat. on TOS it hides comments behind a below your threshold message."
[13:39:45] <Bytram> from scrollback -- your reply to me
[13:39:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> i meant for flat to honor threshold at some point. after someone brought up spammy subjects
[13:40:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, apparently flat ignores both threshold and breakthrough now
[13:40:59] <paulej72> well whatever I do to hide thresh can be truned on for flat if needed
[13:41:05] <Bytram> so, IIUC, for TNG & Flat, the primary (first-presented) control (Threshold) is a no-op, and the secondary control (Breakthrough) is actually one that does something?
[13:41:14] <paulej72> bug alert :)
[13:41:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> sigh. squash one bug, introduce four more.
[13:41:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, correct as it stands now.
[13:42:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd like to use threshold on flat though.
[13:42:03] <paulej72> but not correct as it should stand
[13:42:23] <paulej72> That is fine by me
[13:42:41] <paulej72> OK off to see the doctor
[13:42:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> TNG should be the only funky mode cause it's new
[13:42:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> ish
[13:43:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, ima make flat honor both of em.
[13:44:25] <Bytram> I am utterly confused that we would provide PRIMARY, NON-FUNCTIONAL UI elements, and depend on a secondary element to control the outcome... swap the order, change the name, do something, provide a CLEAR explanation of what is happening in each mode and show how the names mean what they do, SOMETHING. Right now, I am at a loss to understand what does what in the UI.
[13:45:27] <Bytram> and, if I can't understand it... and I tested UTF-8 and IDN, there just might be something to it.
[13:46:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, after an hour or so threshold and breakthrough should both function as expected on flat and tos. not as we think they should but as expected.
[13:46:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> with the one exception of breakthrough always overriding threshold
[13:47:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> TNG is how me and pj wanted it to be and should not be expected to conform to any previous mode. only breakthrough works on it.
[13:49:07] <Bytram> hmmm,
[13:49:42] * Bytram starts re-permutating the sample space... this is gonna take a while and I need to be at work in less than an hour...
[13:50:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> don't need to redo all the posts. old ones will work fine.
[13:50:01] <Bytram> is helpful to know that TNG is not, umm, "parallel" to flat/tos.
[13:50:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's a wild man. does its own thing.
[13:50:46] <Bytram> oh, didn't plan to redo stories... I meant in my "mental model" of what controls do what and how they affect what gets presented and how... so that I know what to expect when I do something.
[13:51:01] <Bytram> I apologize for not being clearer
[13:51:04] <Bytram> coffee++
[13:51:04] <Bender> karma - coffee: 7
[13:52:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh, nod nod
[13:54:26] <Bytram> and I would MUCH rather work on this than go to work, but... I needs to pay the bills and be at work in about 45 minutes.
[13:58:11] <Bytram> appreciate the discussion... many thanks... maybe this would be a lot clearer if we had a FAQ that gave an example story and a couple comment trees and showed the paralleism between terms, I.e what "Threshold" *means* and how it controls the display in each of the modes, then ditto for breakthrough. Or the other way around (Mode first, and how each of the controls work... compare/contrast between behavior in each of the modes)
[13:59:08] <Bytram> I'd throw up a couple more stories to more succinctly identify test modes, but lack time atm. maybe I can gt to it this PM
[15:18:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, Flat should honor Threshold and Breakthrough now. TOS TLCs should honor Threshold now.
[15:18:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> and i'm out for a while.