#dev | Logs for 2017-02-18

« return
[00:34:09] -!- MrPlow has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:50:11] -!- MrPlow [MrPlow!MrPlow@Soylent/BotArmy] has joined #dev
[00:50:11] -!- MrPlow has quit [Changing host]
[00:50:11] -!- MrPlow [MrPlow!MrPlow@nsa.gov] has joined #dev
[01:32:42] <Bytram> #smake TheMightyBuzzard
[01:32:42] * MrPlow smakes TheMightyBuzzard upside the head with a caffeinated foosh
[01:32:56] <Bytram> #smake TheMightyBuzzard https://dev.soylentnews.org
[01:32:56] * MrPlow smakes TheMightyBuzzard https://dev.soylentnews.org upside the head with a 400TB/s DDoS
[01:32:57] <aqu4>  ^ "3Dev.SN Comments | 20170215e - Test Story - Please DO NOT Moderate and DO NOT Post Comments - Comment Score Testing"
[01:33:42] <Bytram> #smake TheMightyBuzzard and one more time to make sure
[01:33:42] * MrPlow smakes TheMightyBuzzard and one more time to make sure upside the head with vegan jizz. made from bean curd.
[01:34:44] * Bytram tries to figure out how to unmoderate TheMightyBuzzard's moderations.
[01:35:15] <Bytram> correction: moderation.
[02:24:13] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: looked over the code and had some questions
[02:54:26] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: please remove your moderation from comment #31085 on dev -- I do not mean add an offsetting moderation, either... please make it "didn't happen"
[03:10:03] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[03:10:03] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[03:10:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, sup?
[03:13:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> if it's why three separate instances of mode being rewritten: because creating a new enum, deleting the old one, and renaming the new one to the old one is the proper way to add/change items in an enum.
[03:25:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, okay, all comments addressed. i'll get poking at it again in the morning.
[03:27:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, lemme see real quick
[03:30:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, it's back at +2
[12:00:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, pull request updated to address all your comments
[12:02:06] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: thank you.
[12:02:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> it does still need two rounds of adding mode_new, copying data, deleting mode, renaming mode_new to mode though. logically necessary to keep from losing user data.
[12:02:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, sorry bout that. it was the one i saw the bug on so i tested from it without paying attention.
[12:03:52] <Bytram> apology accepted. do you understand the distinction between A=B+1 is different from A=B+1+1-1 ??
[12:04:41] <Bytram> the *should* work out to being the same, but that is an assumption that needs to be validated
[12:05:03] <Bytram> having a 'virgin' arrival at a certain mod level provides a baseline against which that assertion can be validated
[12:05:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually, it's stored in the db as comment.points with no history or anything
[12:05:43] <Bytram> currrently.
[12:05:47] <Bytram> ;)
[12:05:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> true nuff
[12:05:53] <Bytram> black box testing, yanno
[12:06:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> like right now ya have it scored two with no moderations cause i deleted one too many.
[12:06:32] <Bytram> from up in the world of userland, I know what all I did and how it got there.
[12:06:41] <Bytram> huh?
[12:06:53] * Bytram goes to look
[12:08:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you wanna slap the appropriate number of upmods in that it should have, i'll adjust the points field again. the points field is the only thing used in functional math though.
[12:09:18] <Bytram> the other thing that I should have spelled out in the story text is that I used *specific* mods to attain those scores...
[12:09:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> mostly cause it would be prohibitively expensive to add up all the moderations every time we wanted to pull the score. so we store the total instead.
[12:09:49] <Bytram> that way, I could use the user preferences to change, en masse, all of the scores of one mod type to another
[12:09:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahhh
[12:10:04] <Bytram> or are you ignoring the user prefs ?
[12:10:15] <Bytram> yes, I test DEEP
[12:10:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh i ignore users' preferences all the time.
[12:10:28] <Bytram> #smake TheMightyBuzzard
[12:10:28] * MrPlow smakes TheMightyBuzzard upside the head with figgy pudding
[12:10:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> that one was an insightful i believe but i think you wrote it down
[12:11:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, Interesting
[12:12:12] * TheMightyBuzzard still had the results of the select statement in his buffer
[12:12:25] <Bytram> unless I made a mistake, and it is possible cause I had to create that test all by hand -- painful -- all of the mod -1 should have gotten there with exactly one kind of mod, all the 0 by another (default IIRC), all of the +1 by exactly the same mod, and last all +2 by exactly the same mod.
[12:13:04] <Bytram> oh, and a different mod was used for each of the score levels
[12:13:15] <Bytram> just to make htat explicit
[12:13:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, appreciated. give it an Interesting and i'll adjust the points and it'll be back where it should.
[12:13:25] <Bytram> =)
[12:13:45] * Bytram goes to check and verify his assertions -- coffee has not really kicked in yet
[12:14:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> speaking of...
[12:14:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[12:14:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[12:14:06] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 1
[12:21:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> back
[12:26:03] <Bytram> and forth and round and round
[12:32:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> ugh, chillax is behind db-wise
[12:32:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> but only partially
[12:33:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll fix it later. gonna watch milo on bill maher's show
[12:54:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, you add the proper mod to that comment yet?
[12:54:48] <Bytram> am working on it... don't want to fix it wrong and then have to unfix it, yanno?
[12:55:02] <Bytram> sorry it's taking so long -- brain refuses to jump start
[12:55:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> it had one Interesting. i did a select before i deleted the mods.
[12:56:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> the points field will be off after you mod it but i have an update statement ready to fix it. just needs me to hit enter.
[12:57:38] <Bytram> yep... now I'm remembering... all +1 were "Informative" ... all +2 were "Interesting"... and right now I am seeing "+2 Insightful" ...
[12:57:50] <Bytram> and hjmmm, who was I when I modded it?
[12:58:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> uid 76
[12:58:33] <Bytram> ok, I was me: "martyb"
[12:58:39] <Bytram> nod nod
[12:59:13] <Bytram> can you nuke *all* mods for comment 31085 on dev?
[12:59:28] <Bytram> let me rephrase
[12:59:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> they already are.
[12:59:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> can i make it not Insightful? no. that's a bug.
[13:00:03] <Bytram> if you were to nuke all mods on 31085, and then I modded it like I did in the past, would I end up with the same result as I did for comment 31081
[13:00:53] <Bytram> i'm seeing comment_0020 aka cid=31085 as "+1 Insightful"
[13:01:01] <Bytram> with a score of 2
[13:01:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, that'd be a bug.
[13:01:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> it has no moderations on it but a score like it should have so it defaults to Insightful
[13:01:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> give it a mod to read from and it'll display correctly
[13:02:13] * Bytram is confused and does not understand, but decides to try it
[13:02:43] * Bytram selects "+1 Interesting" for cid=31085
[13:02:50] * Bytram selects "+1 Interesting" for cid=31085
[13:02:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> rehash is confused. it sees a score that needs to have a reason but there are no reasons to read from so it gives it Insightful for some reason.
[13:03:10] * Bytram clicks moderate
[13:03:31] <Bytram> now I see "Score: 3 Interesting)
[13:03:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> as you should
[13:03:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> and now?
[13:04:07] <Bytram> think I'm understanding it now... is problem in presentation of info from the db
[13:04:13] <Bytram> well s/is/was/
[13:04:25] * Bytram duplicates tab
[13:04:29] * Bytram fits refresh
[13:04:43] <Bytram> now see (Score: 2, Interesting)
[13:04:46] <Bytram> yay!
[13:04:49] * TheMightyBuzzard cheers
[13:04:54] <Bytram> !woot
[13:05:04] * Bytram waits for bender to catchup
[13:05:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> !woop
[13:05:11] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[13:05:34] <Bytram> nod nod
[13:05:38] <Bytram> teamwork++
[13:05:38] <Bender> karma - teamwork: 6
[13:06:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> smokin more cigarettes n playin vidya time for me then
[13:06:20] <Bytram> hey... where are we at with flat?
[13:06:51] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: ^^^
[13:06:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> everything should be good to roll out
[13:07:20] <Bytram> all known problems fixed...
[13:07:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> or deferred as not important enough to block for
[13:07:44] <Bytram> except known prob with parent of leaf comment not being "Comment Below Threshold"
[13:08:06] <Bytram> well, I NEED to know what the known problems are, or I will waste a lot of time discovering and documenting them.
[13:08:16] <Bytram> are they listed in the release notes story?
[13:08:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's a technical limitation so we're going with "desired behavior" there
[13:08:49] <Bytram> -1 disagree
[13:09:26] <Bytram> tell it like it is -- that's the whole foundation of this site -- call it a "technical limitation"
[13:09:26] <Bytram> it is what it is
[13:09:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> you gotta figure out how to make it comment below threshold and still show breakthrough comments below it then cause i can't.
[13:10:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> but personally i prefer it the way it is. you SHOULD see the subjects of parent comments if you're going to show a child.
[13:10:52] <Bytram> I can't either. so, in the release notes explain that there are cases where this occurs (give example of scores and heirarchy and state that, as much as we would like otherwise, due to technical limitations, what you are going to see is: $blah
[13:11:35] <Bytram> does that apply to ALL parents of that child?
[13:11:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep
[13:12:20] <Bytram> and it's 'cause the great^n - grand - kid exceeded the *breakthrough*, correct?
[13:12:33] <Bytram> oh wait, was it the threshold?
[13:12:36] <Bytram> coffee++
[13:12:36] <Bender> karma - coffee: 6
[13:12:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually i think i could get it to apply as you expect it to but i like it better this way.
[13:12:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> breakthrough.
[13:13:12] <Bytram> I subscribe to the idea that code should do what I tell it to do, no matter how brain dead it may appear
[13:13:17] <Bytram> k
[13:13:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> exceeding threshold just means you don't get the comment below threshold message
[13:13:48] <Bytram> umm, yeah
[13:13:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> exceeding breakthrough means you get shown
[13:14:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> and expanded to
[13:14:19] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: s/to/too/
[13:14:24] <Bytram> ?
[13:14:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> either is correct
[13:14:35] <Bytram> k
[13:14:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> expanded down to or expanded also
[13:15:29] <Bytram> okay, I was at this for better part of 2 hours wicked early this AM... caught a few more hours sleep but not enough...need to catch a few more winks before I go in to work this afternoon
[13:15:50] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++ for all the determination and perseverance
[13:15:50] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 6
[13:15:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> go fer it. i'm on a day off unless someone finds another bug.
[13:16:57] <Bytram> have the late shift tonight, so not sure how early I'll be awake and useful on Sunday, but it's a rare one off for me. hope to give it a go, refreshed, some time in the PM.
[13:17:28] <Bytram> paulej72++ css wrangler par excellant!
[13:17:28] <Bender> karma - paulej72: 7
[13:18:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> yarp. better'n me.
[13:18:47] <Bytram> backing up for a moment -- I won't even pretend to understand how exactly you got the CSS to do what you made it do -- I've got a general idea, but the details? nope. Best I can do is create test cses that explore significant variations and reveal where there may be shortcomings.
[13:19:01] <Bytram> you done good.
[13:19:21] <Bytram> for me, at this momemnt, your CSS stuff is "black magic"
[13:19:28] <Bytram> so, best I can do is black box testing
[13:20:09] <Bytram> wait, you said you could make it work the 3way I expected?
[13:20:59] * Bytram debates asking for threadedDoctorWho
[13:21:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> probably yeah and i don't mind adding modes for future releases.
[13:22:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> but one minor change don't warrant its own threading mode really.
[13:33:23] <Bytram> I'm inclined to agree, and I can see some value to what the current mode does, but not sure that it is the correct way to go; we have a technical lot in our community, but not necessarily all within the realm of computers... techie like in automotive or sciences for wholm a computer is a black magic box... try to make the simplest explanations for what they do and what they see is paramount for me.
[13:43:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, thing is we can never really tell what they're going to think is the simplest explanations are. we can try but eventually we just gotta let them use it and tell us how we fucked up.
[13:57:33] <Bytram> I agree we can't *know*, but based on my experience dealing with testing on a whole raft of users from supergeniuses to those who don't understand what a directory is... I go with the "Law of Least Astonishment", any mental rule I construct as to "I do this, and I always get that" is good. It gets problematic when one starts adding "except when you have this, and then we do THIS, instead" -- the fewest exceptions is generally the best
[13:57:33] <Bytram> decision in my experience.
[14:50:29] <paulej72> OK reading backlog
[15:11:28] <paulej72> OK updated comments in pull request TheMightyBuzzard
[15:42:04] <cmn32480> any of you knuckleheads have an idea whne this upgrade will go out? I'm wondering as I am starting to fill tomorrow's queue
[16:08:35] <cmn32480> I know I am rather late to the party, but can we amek the delete button in the editorial interface also update the notes, please?
[16:09:58] <cmn32480> ach.. crap...
[16:10:00] <cmn32480> it does
[16:10:07] <cmn32480> you guys are AWESOME!
[16:10:18] * cmn32480 goes back in his hole
[16:59:24] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: using user test_user_0006 (all default settings) I am trying to make sense of the Threshold/Breakthrough counts displayed when I load this URL: https://dev.soylentnews.org
[16:59:27] <aqu4>  ^ "320170215e - Test Story - Please DO NOT Moderate and DO NOT Post Comments - Comment Score Testing - Dev.SN"
[17:00:09] <Bytram> what does the Breakthrough 2:5 signify? I don't see 5 things that look different from the others.
[17:02:48] <Bytram> and to call it out explicitly, this is using Threaded-TNG
[17:04:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, whichever is set lower of threshold or breakthrough on TNG is going to show you all comments scored that or higher.
[17:04:35] <Bytram> okay, gtg... I am supposed to be AT work in less than 30 minutes
[17:04:36] <Bytram> min (2,3) == 2, right?
[17:04:53] <Bytram> I am seeing all the same except for the two top level comments, when logged in as test_user_0006
[17:05:58] <Bytram> note: scores run from -1 to 2
[17:06:04] <Bytram> and, except for top-level, they all loook the same to me
[17:10:12] <Bytram> okay,really really gtg
[17:10:16] <Bytram> good luck!
[17:16:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, stuff updated
[17:24:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> back to goofing on vidya now
[18:43:50] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #dev
[18:48:06] -!- janrinok has quit [Client Quit]