#staff | Logs for 2014-07-09
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[00:01:40] -!- matt_ [matt_!~4c77e8d9@f-09-442-560-040.hsd9.ma.comcast.net] has joined #staff
[00:01:42] -!- matt_ has quit [Changing host]
[00:01:42] -!- matt_ [matt_!~4c77e8d9@Soylent/Staff/Management] has joined #staff
[00:08:07] <mrcoolbp> .voice weeds
[00:46:14] <mrcoolbp> .voice matt_
[00:46:14] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt_] by juggler
[00:46:18] <matt_> thanks!
[00:46:24] <mrcoolbp> my pleasure
[00:46:37] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: we're here whenever you're ready
[00:47:41] <NCommander> We could start now if need be
[00:47:50] <matt_> Hi! Ready to call to order the first meeding of the Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC?
[00:47:57] <matt_> Does anyone have an ASCII gavel to bang?
[00:47:57] <NCommander> I think I want a smoke first
[00:48:03] <matt_> ok :)
[00:48:06] * NCommander kick juggler gravel test
[00:48:12] <NCommander> .op
[00:48:12] -!- mode/#staff [+o NCommander] by juggler
[00:48:24] -!- exec was kicked from #staff by NCommander!~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall [gravel test]
[00:48:26] <NCommander> Yup
[00:48:36] <NCommander> Er, should have kicked bender but whatever
[00:48:50] -!- juggs [juggs!~juggs@Soylent/Users/63/Juggs] has joined #staff
[00:48:54] <NCommander> Let me just have my smoke then we'll get underway
[00:48:59] <mrcoolbp> sure
[00:49:21] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~b4c880f7@180.200.jji.ihy] has joined #staff
[00:49:40] <matt_> hi prospectacle!
[00:49:43] <matt_> that reminds me:
[00:49:44] <matt_> [11:07:04] <prospectacle> I'm looking forward to this story that's meant to be coming with all the details of incorporation. I wonder if it's still intended for monday (in some timezone), the mondays of the world are quickly running out
[00:49:51] <matt_> :)
[00:50:07] <mrcoolbp> .op matt_
[00:50:07] -!- mode/#staff [+o matt_] by juggler
[00:50:16] <mrcoolbp> <prospectacle> good day
[00:50:34] <matt_> mrcoolbp, thanks again!
[00:50:53] <mrcoolbp> you got it.
[00:51:36] <NCommander> prospectacle, I've been sick, hence why it didn't get out
[00:51:48] * NCommander still isn't 100%, but at least the throbbing headache has come to an end
[00:51:53] <NCommander> Alright, I'm ready to begin
[00:51:58] <matt_> So, before we get to the agenda, a couple of quick points:
[00:52:05] <matt_> First: Our simple bylaws do not specifically allow board meetings over irc :( and we had less than the required 2 business days notice of this meeting :( but that's ok because we can take action without a meeting according to Article III, Section 11: "Action without a Meeting" :)
[00:52:05] <NCommander> prospectacle, for the most part
[00:52:13] <matt_> This works as long as "all members of the Board of Directors [...] consent thereto in writing or by electronic transmission, and such writings or electronic transmissions are filed with the records of the meetings of the Board of Directors", because "Such consent shall be treated as a valid and proper vote of the Board of Directors or committee thereof for all purposes".
[00:52:18] <matt_> So, long-story short, any decisions that we make here need to be unanimous to be binding. We can change this by voting to amend the bylaws during this meeting, if you want, or we can leave that for later.
[00:52:33] <matt_> Also, "Such filing may be in paper form if the minutes are maintained in paper form and may be in electronic form if the minutes are maintained in electronic form."
[00:52:40] <matt_> So, first question: do we want to keep the minutes in paper form or electronic form (i'm guessing electronic). If electronic, the Secretary (who we will elect in a minute) should make a clean copy in a flat file (it can also go up on an edit-locked wiki page or equivalent, if you like).
[00:53:10] * NCommander votes for electronic
[00:53:20] * mrcoolbp votes electronic
[00:53:21] * matt_ also votes for electronic
[00:53:29] <matt_> I also recommend that immediately after this meeting we confirm by email (i) our presence at this meeting and (ii) any votes that we take here, just in case any of us are sockpuppets ;o
[00:53:43] <matt_> Ok, so i only have 8 agenda items (if you don't count items 2a-2c and 6a-6f as separate items :)
[00:53:52] <matt_> We can add additional items as needed.
[00:54:00] <matt_> Agenda items for discussion (some of which will require a vote):
[00:54:06] <matt_> 1. Ratify the Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws.
[00:54:11] <matt_> 2. Elect officers:
[00:54:16] <matt_> 2a. Required: Chief Executive Officer, President, Treasurer, Secretary
[00:54:22] <matt_> 2b. Optional: Any others, including one or more Vice Presidents, Assitant Treasurers, Assitant Secretaries, Chairman of the Board, etc.
[00:54:26] <matt_> 2c. Remember: Article IV, Section 3: "No officer need be a stockholder or Director. Any two or more offices may be held by the same person."
[00:54:32] <matt_> 3. Authorize opening a business checking account in the name of the Corporation.
[00:54:37] <matt_> 4. Authorize opening a PayPal account in the name of the Corporation.
[00:54:41] <matt_> 5. Discuss the plan to offer subscriptions (and SWAG?).
[00:54:46] <matt_> 6. Discuss upcoming expenditures:
[00:54:51] <matt_> 6a. operational costs (hosting, QuickBooks, ...?)
[00:54:57] <matt_> 6b. accountant ($1500 retainer, $1500 to file) + taxes ($500 MA, $500 DE)
[00:55:02] <matt_> 6c. lawyer ($5000 retainer)
[00:55:06] <matt_> 6d. commission original articles? how to structure? how much to budget? other ways to generate more original content?
[00:55:11] <matt_> 6e. pay editors, developers, et al. or maintain all as volunteers at least until we are more sure about our finances?
[00:55:14] <matt_> 6f. reimburse start-up costs or issue stock?
[00:55:18] <matt_> 7. Open the floor to discussion of any other pressing issues: Amending the bylaws to include community involvement, SN's policy on Editorial Independence, ...
[00:55:23] <matt_> 8. Adjourn!
[00:55:27] <matt_> Any objections to this agenda or any items to add (can add later at any point too)?
[00:55:31] <NCommander> .... damn ....
[00:55:38] <matt_> = )
[00:55:38] <NCommander> This is good
[00:55:40] * mrcoolbp says "nay"
[00:55:49] <mrcoolbp> (no objections)
[00:55:56] <NCommander> No objections here either
[00:56:02] <matt_> cool.
[00:56:02] <NCommander> Actually
[00:56:02] <NCommander> wait
[00:56:06] <matt_> k
[00:56:09] <NCommander> Amend the bylaws for IRC meetings
[00:56:34] <matt_> ok. added to item 7,
[00:56:34] <NCommander> That was a stupid oversight, I think we had concerns about IRC meetings legally, but TBH, as long as the notes and minutes are filed properly, I don't think its the issue
[00:56:52] <NCommander> Other than that, we're good
[00:57:05] <matt_> Ok, first up: Item 1: Ratify the Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws:
[00:57:10] <matt_> Would anyone like to make a comment or shall we proceed with our first vote?
[00:57:30] <NCommander> I think we can all vote on this, we've all looked at them extensively (and had considerably eye bleed)
[00:57:36] * NCommander votes to vote
[00:57:41] * mrcoolbp seconds
[00:57:44] * matt_ thirds
[00:57:51] <matt_> Ok, let's put it to a vote. You can vote "Aye", "No", or "Present" (please don't vote "Present" ;-P ):
[00:57:55] <NCommander> Aye
[00:58:00] <matt_> Question: Does the Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC (the "Corporation") hereby ratify the Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws of the Corporation in their current form?
[00:58:07] <matt_> Aye!
[00:58:11] <NCommander> Aye!
[00:58:12] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[00:58:19] <matt_> Resolved: The Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws are hereby ratified in their current form.
[00:58:21] <NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0
[00:58:26] <matt_> nice!
[00:58:32] <matt_> Next up: Item 2: The election of officers. Remember: Article IV, Section 3: "No officer need be a stockholder or Director. Any two or more offices may be held by the same person."
[00:58:32] <NCommander> (Aye/Nay/Abstain)
[00:58:42] <matt_> First, the President:
[00:58:44] -!- Drop [Drop!~Drop___@via1-vhat2-0-3-jppz214.perr.cable.virginm.net] has joined #staff
[00:58:46] <matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 8: "The President shall be the chief operating officer of the Corporation and shall have general charge of its business operations, subject to the direction of the Board of Directors."
[00:58:54] <matt_> I nominate Michael. Are there any other nominations?
[00:59:12] <mrcoolbp> no
[00:59:22] <NCommander> Question: since we need unambious voting, do I have to vote for myself?
[00:59:25] * NCommander rather abstain
[00:59:30] <matt_> yes you do!
[00:59:32] <mrcoolbp> haha
[00:59:33] <NCommander> Damn
[00:59:36] <matt_> :)
[00:59:42] <matt_> All those in favor of electing Michael Casadevall to the office of President of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Michael Casadevall fill the vacancy in the office of President of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified):
[00:59:50] <NCommander> Aye!
[00:59:51] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[00:59:53] <matt_> Aye!
[00:59:58] <matt_> Resolved: Michael Casadevall is the President of SoylentNews PBC.
[01:00:00] <NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0
[01:00:07] <matt_> Next, the CEO:
[01:00:09] -!- Azrael [Azrael!~Az@a-30-52-93-384.freedom7surf.net] has joined #staff
[01:00:11] <matt_> The powers and authorities of this office are not specifically defined in the Bylaws, except insofar as Article IV, Section 11 states: "Subject to these Bylaws, each officer of the Corporation shall have in addition to the duties and powers specifically set forth in these Bylaws, such duties and powers as are customarily incident to his office, and such duties and powers as may be designated from time to time by the Board of Directors."
[01:00:25] <matt_> I nominate Michael. Are there any other nominations?
[01:00:39] <mrcoolbp> no
[01:01:21] <matt_> NCommander, any other nominations for CEO?
[01:01:32] <NCommander> No nominations
[01:01:37] <matt_> All those in favor of electing Michael Casadevall to the office of Chief Executive Officer of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Michael Casadevall fill the vacancy in the office of Chief Executive Officer of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified):
[01:01:45] <NCommander> Aye!
[01:01:50] <matt_> Aye!
[01:01:50] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[01:01:55] <NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0
[01:01:56] <matt_> Resolved: Michael Casadevall is the Chief Executive Officer of SoylentNews PBC.
[01:02:03] <matt_> Next, the Treasurer:
[01:02:07] <matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 9: "The Treasurer shall, subject to the direction of the Board of Directors, have general charge of the financial affairs of the Corporation and shall cause to be kept accurate books of account. The Treasurer shall have custody of all funds, securities, and valuable documents of the Corporation, except as the Board of Directors may otherwise provide."
[01:02:17] <matt_> Let's discuss this one.
[01:02:36] <NCommander> So, we need to keep accurate books in a format an account can grok
[01:02:50] <NCommander> And in a style that's auditable and understanding such as double-book accounting
[01:03:01] <matt_> yeah. important to note, the Treasurer is not the only person who has _access_ to the books, accounts, etc.
[01:03:14] <NCommander> I'd also like to have our books accessible to the public to the extent permissible by law
[01:03:22] <matt_> the Treasurer simply is responsible for keeping them accurate, etc.
[01:04:11] <matt_> Also worth considering: it takes some time, requires someone who has a good eye for detail...
[01:04:37] <mrcoolbp> hmmm...eye for detail would be martyb/bytram
[01:04:56] <NCommander> I don't like volunteering someone who isn't here
[01:05:14] <mrcoolbp> agreed, just making an observation
[01:05:20] <NCommander> In addition, we're likely going to need to use Quickbooks, so someone who is willing to use Windows or Mac OS X
[01:05:29] <matt_> Agreed. While it would be nice to elect a Treasurer at this meeting, since we are required by law to have one, it would be fine to postpone that until later, if you wish.
[01:05:47] <NCommander> I rather have someone fill the position in the interim
[01:05:54] <mrcoolbp> well, I don't have a copy of quickbooks, but I do have a windows machine
[01:06:00] * mrcoolbp nominates self
[01:06:00] <matt_> Good point.
[01:06:09] * matt_ seconds
[01:06:09] * NCommander seconds the nomination
[01:06:42] <matt_> ok, standby :)
[01:07:21] <matt_> All those in favor of electing Ben Prentice to the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Ben Prentice fill the vacancy in the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified):
[01:07:47] <NCommander> Aye, with the condition that we bring this up next meeting
[01:07:57] <matt_> that's not a voting option.
[01:08:00] <mrcoolbp> lol
[01:08:07] <NCommander> Aye
[01:08:09] <matt_> let's try that again!
[01:08:10] <matt_> All those in favor of electing Ben Prentice to the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Ben Prentice fill the vacancy in the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified):
[01:08:14] <matt_> Aye!
[01:08:16] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[01:08:18] <NCommander> Aye!
[01:08:28] <NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0
[01:08:41] <matt_> Resolved: Ben Prentice is the Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC.
[01:08:46] <matt_> Next, the Secretary:
[01:08:51] <matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 10: "The Secretary shall record the proceedings of all meetings of the stockholders and the Board of Directors in books kept for that purpose."
[01:08:57] <matt_> Any volunteers?
[01:09:08] * NCommander nominates matt_
[01:09:13] * mrcoolbp seconds
[01:09:36] <matt_> lol!. please stand by.
[01:10:04] <NCommander> matt_, when you come to the meeting with an agenda that's on par with my site news posts, what did you expect :-P
[01:10:13] <matt_> hah!
[01:10:14] <matt_> All those in favor of electing Matt Angel to the office of Secretary of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Matt Angel fill the vacancy in the office of Secretary of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified):
[01:10:19] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[01:10:20] <NCommander> Aye!
[01:10:22] <matt_> Aye!
[01:10:27] <matt_> Next, the Chairman of the Board of Directors (optional):
[01:10:29] <NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0
[01:10:33] <matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 7: "The Chairman of the Board, if one is elected, shall preside, when present, at all meetings of the stockholders and of the Board of Directors. The Chairman of the Board shall have such other powers and perform such other duties as the Board of Directors may from time to time designate. In the event of a deadlock in voting on matters at meetings of the Board of Directors or of any Committee of the Board, the Chairman
[01:10:42] <matt_> *cough*
[01:11:02] <NCommander> I think we should table this one
[01:11:10] <mrcoolbp> second
[01:11:12] <matt_> it is optional, after all.
[01:11:15] <matt_> ok. tabled.
[01:11:22] <NCommander> I think Martyb or mattie_p would work in this regard, but w/o them present, I don't want to nominate them
[01:11:27] <matt_> Ok, would anyone like to elect any other officers, including one or more Vice Presidents, Assitant Treasurers, Assitant Secretaries, etc.?
[01:11:35] <mrcoolbp> nay
[01:11:37] <NCommander> nay
[01:11:58] <matt_> nay
[01:12:17] <matt_> Next: Item 3. Authorize opening a business checking account in the name of the Corporation.
[01:12:24] <matt_> so, i had a good talk with a banker the other day.
[01:12:44] <NCommander> Actually, side question, did we get our EIN yet?
[01:12:46] <matt_> at BoA. The good news is that they don't need SSNs...
[01:12:50] * NCommander knows we applied for it
[01:12:57] <matt_> yep, I sent it to you in the email with the incorporation docs.
[01:13:03] <matt_> as an attachment (pdf)
[01:13:07] <NCommander> Ah, brain fart
[01:13:30] * NCommander waits for the bad news
[01:13:31] <matt_> However, they do require that anyone who will be a signer on the account present themselves in person...
[01:13:38] <matt_> with photo ID, and to sign.
[01:13:47] <matt_> But there is more good news, thankfully...
[01:14:15] <matt_> in the case of multiple signers in different locations, each signer can go to their local branch to sign up :)
[01:14:17] <NCommander> That might be problematic for me
[01:14:23] <NCommander> I don't think BOA *exists* in Alaska
[01:14:28] <matt_> really?
[01:14:34] <NCommander> I haven't seen one
[01:14:38] <NCommander> Checking Google Maps
[01:15:06] <NCommander> There's a BOA ATM, listed as "Permanently Closed"
[01:15:08] <NCommander> Hrm
[01:15:35] <matt_> what sort of banks are there in your area?
[01:16:01] <NCommander> Wells Fargo
[01:16:08] <NCommander> They basically have a monopoly on the state
[01:16:17] <matt_> hmm. that might work.
[01:16:22] <NCommander> Its not a blocker, the next time I'm on the east coast I can drop into a BOA
[01:16:27] <NCommander> But that might not be for a few months
[01:16:31] <mrcoolbp> Bank of America Mortgage
[01:16:31] <mrcoolbp> 579 Waddell St
[01:16:31] <mrcoolbp> Homer, AK 99603
[01:16:41] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, Homer is ney impossible to get to without a car
[01:16:43] <matt_> perfect, NCommander, just pop down to Homer.
[01:16:46] <matt_> oh.
[01:16:50] <NCommander> I can rent one
[01:17:11] <NCommander> Yeah, if the Alaska Railroad went there, it would be trivial but argh
[01:17:13] <NCommander> -_-;
[01:17:37] <NCommander> Cool, I caused the business equivelent of Abort/Retry/Fail :-P
[01:18:05] <matt_> so, most of the day-to-day transactions will be on the payment processor account, anyway (i.e., paypal)
[01:18:23] <NCommander> Well, I'd like to keep as little money as possible in PayPal
[01:18:40] <matt_> good plan. of course, they won't let you transfer it out of a new account for a few weeks, usually...
[01:18:47] <NCommander> That being said, I believe Linode accepts Paypal as a payment option
[01:18:54] <mrcoolbp> cool
[01:19:23] <matt_> shall we go with BoA, then add NC as a signer as soon as he is in the lower 48 again (or makes it to Homer)?
[01:19:49] <mrcoolbp> I'm fine with it if NCommander is
[01:19:56] <NCommander> I don't think it will be a problem, most of the site stuff can be set on auto
[01:20:09] <NCommander> The only thing that requires manual intervention is the backup server, but we could just prepay it six months and forget about it
[01:20:23] <matt_> All those in favor of opening a business checking account at Bank of America in the name of the Corporation:
[01:20:30] <mrcoolbp> Aye
[01:20:32] <NCommander> Aye
[01:20:33] <matt_> Aye
[01:20:39] <matt_> Resolved.
[01:20:51] <matt_> Next up: Item 4. Authorize opening a PayPal account in the name of the Corporation.
[01:21:06] <matt_> All those in favor of opening a PayPal account in the name of the Corporation:
[01:21:11] <mrcoolbp> Aye
[01:21:13] <matt_> Aye
[01:21:13] <NCommander> Aye
[01:21:29] <matt_> who is going to take care of that one?
[01:21:38] * matt_ can handle the BoA one.
[01:21:39] * mrcoolbp was going to do it
[01:21:42] <matt_> cool.
[01:21:54] * NCommander notes, for the record, I <3 you guys
[01:21:59] <matt_> Next: Item 5. Discuss the plan to offer subscriptions (and SWAG?).
[01:21:59] <mrcoolbp> = )
[01:22:03] <matt_> duly noted.
[01:22:08] <matt_> =)
[01:22:14] <NCommander> Let me get the SN article thread out about this
[01:22:17] <matt_> so how is that plan coming along?
[01:22:18] <NCommander> Since its a good reference
[01:22:58] <NCommander> For context: http://soylentnews.org
[01:23:08] <NCommander> To sumup, with discussions with the community
[01:23:12] <mrcoolbp> http://soylentnews.org
[01:23:21] <mrcoolbp> oops, too late, sorry
[01:23:22] <NCommander> Our initial offering on the subscription front is $20/yr, with a small set of perks
[01:23:44] <NCommander> Backend wise, we've got roughly 70-80 of that existing, as most of them were part of the "stock" slashcode subscription
[01:23:47] <matt_> yep, i guess i was more asking if there was anything left to be done code-wise, etc.
[01:23:53] <NCommander> Yeah, let me sum that up
[01:24:03] <NCommander> The biggest headache is that slashcode works on a usage base model, not time based
[01:24:13] <NCommander> While I understand WHY that was done, its confusing as heck TBH
[01:24:35] <NCommander> I've dug into the codebase, and theorically, its not difficult to retool
[01:24:54] <NCommander> The isSubscriber code is a single function, which does some fancy logic, fixing that (theorically) should be easy
[01:25:06] -!- rand [rand!~rand@jsx-671.76-725-78.nts-online.net] has joined #staff
[01:25:06] <NCommander> My first attempt blew my dev instance to hell :-)
[01:25:50] <NCommander> We also need to do a bit to strip out the subscriber +1 functionality, and the ability to turn off the little star (that comment got repeated enough)
[01:26:04] <matt_> yeah, i remember those comments.
[01:26:09] <NCommander> It probably needs a weekend or two to get that bit working
[01:26:11] <NCommander> Here's the hard part
[01:26:22] <NCommander> We need to test to make sure /code properly intergrates with payment processors
[01:26:27] <NCommander> FOr Paypal, that means we need a dev account
[01:26:41] <matt_> yep. i actually did that on my website.
[01:26:50] <matt_> _very_ painful.
[01:26:51] <NCommander> I *don't* want day one with a few hundred users getting shafted because we did something stupid
[01:27:30] <NCommander> The "make subscriber" thing is a callback from Paypal (it hits a URL on the site with a special "secretword" in the string), so its stupidly fragile
[01:27:38] <matt_> ok. i guess all we should do at this meeting is confirm that getting that straightened out is a top priority.
[01:27:43] <NCommander> Yeah
[01:27:48] <matt_> unless you would like to delegate any specific tasks...
[01:27:56] <matt_> but it sounds like you have things under control =)
[01:27:59] <NCommander> I'll talk with paulej72 to see if he's willing to stomach it
[01:28:04] <matt_> nice.
[01:28:05] <NCommander> My time kinda limited at the moment
[01:28:13] <NCommander> We need to figure out what, if any, other payment processors we want
[01:28:21] <NCommander> Our community is likely to have an allergic reaction to paypal
[01:28:26] <NCommander> There's also a second aspect
[01:28:36] <NCommander> Do we want to require Paypal's extended verification
[01:28:49] <matt_> yeah. any ideas for other payment processors?
[01:28:50] <NCommander> i.e., requiring addresses and such, it reduces our liability but ...
[01:28:57] <matt_> and what's involved in getting extended verification?
[01:29:05] <matt_> oh. well we do have an address :)
[01:29:06] <NCommander> Its a switchbox as far as I know
[01:29:12] <NCommander> No, this is verifying the user
[01:29:19] <matt_> Oh.
[01:29:21] <NCommander> i.e., requiring them to put in an address and full name
[01:29:33] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: so not this: http://www.digicert.com ?
[01:29:46] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, no, though that reminds me of another thing we need to talk about :-)
[01:29:55] <NCommander> matt_, can we amend the agenda on "SSL certificates/domain"
[01:29:56] <matt_> I suspect once you set it up, you will get plenty of feedback from the community if they don't like what information is asked from them.
[01:30:09] <NCommander> matt_, I think we should leave it off unless we start getting abused
[01:30:10] <matt_> yep. i'll put that in item 7. as well.
[01:30:21] <NCommander> Final point, merchant fees
[01:30:28] <NCommander> Do we eat them, or charge them to the user
[01:30:35] <NCommander> We never brought this up in any of the discussions
[01:31:12] * NCommander notes if we really wanted to do, we could always accept checks in the mail if we wanted to be arcaic
[01:31:37] <NCommander> But getting off topic
[01:31:41] <matt_> I think it's nice to pay only $20 for something that says it costs $20. (which i guess means we eat the merchant fee?)
[01:31:54] <mrcoolbp> I'm with you on that matt_
[01:32:05] <NCommander> matt_, yeah, though I think for cases where tax applies (WA residents), that goes to the user
[01:32:09] <mrcoolbp> yes
[01:32:43] <NCommander> Ok, so lets note this
[01:33:00] <matt_> ok, so the subscription plan is: NCommander talks with paulej72 to get the subscriptions working on the backend.
[01:33:13] <NCommander> We need a paypal dev account, I think those are easy to get though
[01:33:32] <mrcoolbp> I'll inquire about it when I setup the account
[01:33:38] <matt_> yeah. you can also just put the normal paypal account into "test" mode instead of "live" mode.
[01:33:59] <matt_> ok. if there's nothing else on subscriptions, let's move swiftly forward to...
[01:34:00] <NCommander> matt_, oh, thats probably saner, though we should probably have a dev account, and have dev.sn.org always pointed at it
[01:34:07] <matt_> SWAG!
[01:34:10] <NCommander> I think we've beaten this dead horse enough
[01:34:17] <matt_> any thoughts?
[01:34:34] <mrcoolbp> coffee mugs and t-shirts
[01:34:47] <matt_> i would buy one of each!
[01:34:48] <NCommander> Off the top of my head, when I travel, I frequently send postcards, maybe offer special handwritten cards from unique places in the world (first one from Anchorage)
[01:35:03] <NCommander> Pipedot did custom USB sticks
[01:35:10] <NCommander> Like, really really freaking nice USB sticks
[01:35:25] <mrcoolbp> Shall we look into getting a 3rd party that will do all the work/shipping for us?
[01:35:25] <NCommander> So
[01:35:28] <NCommander> ... I hate to ask this
[01:35:34] <NCommander> Who owns the logo?
[01:35:43] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I think frogblast made it
[01:35:46] <NCommander> Jon got it from the community
[01:35:48] <mrcoolbp> but I'm not sure
[01:35:52] <NCommander> I think we need to make sure we legally own it
[01:35:57] <mrcoolbp> ug
[01:36:20] <matt_> can we generate a backup logo?
[01:36:22] <NCommander> I think FrogBlast disappeared, I haven't seen him in ages
[01:36:28] <mrcoolbp> hold on
[01:37:24] <NCommander> http://pipedot.org - BTW, the pipedot USB stick
[01:37:38] <NCommander> We could preload a slashcode instance on it with a bootable dev environment
[01:37:57] <matt_> a *niche* item to be sure =)
[01:38:02] <matt_> any idea where bryan got them?
[01:38:57] <NCommander> He's sometimes around on our IRC network, so it wouldn't he hard to ask
[01:39:05] <NCommander> s/he/be/g
[01:39:21] <matt_> mrcoolbp, do you want to be in charge of drafting a swag plan?
[01:39:31] <mrcoolbp> yes, I'll look into it
[01:39:46] <matt_> and/or be in charge of recruiting one or more volunteers to do it =)
[01:39:53] <matt_> nice.
[01:40:04] <NCommander> Just to summarize previous RL meetings, I think we had the following ideas
[01:40:10] <NCommander> * customized UID t-shirts
[01:40:20] <NCommander> (probably also have UID 1/AC shirt)
[01:40:28] <NCommander> * USB drives
[01:40:55] <NCommander> * various SN shirts (conditional on making sure we don't have logo legal issue)
[01:40:55] <matt_> yeah. how about the idea of a limited-edition of NC-signed versions?
[01:41:18] <NCommander> That's fine for me, with the note that its going to have addition charge due to AK->anywhere requiring more postal
[01:41:35] <NCommander> (though we could do a variant on the usual "Free shipping*" * - except in Alaska)
[01:41:40] <mrcoolbp> heh
[01:41:41] <NCommander> Free Shipping in Alaska, all others pay cash :-)
[01:41:47] <matt_> nice.
[01:41:57] <matt_> unless there is anything else on swag, shall we move on to...
[01:42:01] <NCommander> Final note
[01:42:18] <NCommander> International shipping, we might have to look at VAT/customs/bleh
[01:42:23] <mrcoolbp> = (
[01:42:41] <matt_> :/
[01:42:44] <NCommander> There's likely a vendor or two who can help us w/ that, but if we do it directly, we might have issues
[01:42:55] * NCommander has had issues just carrying equipment over borders
[01:43:30] <mrcoolbp> ideally for ease-of-use I'd like to get a 3rd party vendor that will print/ship for us
[01:43:34] <NCommander> I think the easiest solution is if we can find a vendor in the EU, which would allow us to ship across the scheign zone easily
[01:43:55] <NCommander> Which would cover 75-90% of the userbase
[01:44:18] <matt_> one commenter mentioned: http://www.topatoco.com
[01:44:36] <NCommander> I'm familiar with them, a lot of smaller sites (and web comics) use the, with good success
[01:44:43] <matt_> but, i think they may want us to have a known sales volume, etc.
[01:44:52] <matt_> perhaps worth contacting them, though
[01:44:57] <mrcoolbp> okay, noted
[01:45:08] <NCommander> We could always get preorders from the community :-)
[01:45:11] <NCommander> Boom, sales numbers
[01:45:38] <matt_> ok, any more swag thoughts?
[01:45:47] <NCommander> None off the top of my head
[01:45:58] <mrcoolbp> nope
[01:46:07] <matt_> Ok, Next is Item 6. Discuss upcoming expenditures:
[01:46:16] <matt_> First: 6a. operational costs (hosting, QuickBooks, ...?)
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[01:46:51] <matt_> I guess my question here is, are we in good shape as we are until the subscription revenue starts to come through?
[01:47:35] <NCommander> So, as previously stated, hosting costs are about $300 USD per month
[01:47:57] <matt_> ok. are you paying that month-to-month?
[01:47:59] <NCommander> Yeah
[01:48:08] <NCommander> Well, one node was prepaid a year by Jon
[01:48:19] <matt_> are you able to continue to do that for a while?
[01:48:19] <NCommander> (three of them were refunded, but one was left up)
[01:48:22] <NCommander> Yeah
[01:48:28] <NCommander> We need to seperate the linodes to a new account
[01:48:41] <NCommander> They're hosted on my personal linode account in my name, we can do that with a ticket to Linode
[01:48:47] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: that should be easy, just mind those Zone files this time = _
[01:48:59] <matt_> and you (or is it mrcoolbp, now) are planning to buy QuickBooks?
[01:49:01] <NCommander> Pfft, I haven't broken the site in months
[01:49:09] * NCommander hears omnious thunder
[01:49:18] <mrcoolbp> matt_ hmm let me see
[01:49:20] <matt_> are there any other operational costs that we're forgetting?
[01:49:53] <NCommander> Linode+Kimsurfi (offsite backup)+domain costs (but those are prepaid 2 years)
[01:50:00] <NCommander> Oh, SSL certificates
[01:50:06] <mrcoolbp> matt_, I can grab a copy
[01:50:08] <matt_> ah. how much will that be?
[01:50:17] <matt_> mrcoolbp, nice! save the receipt!
[01:50:17] <NCommander> So, I started the process with StartSSL.com
[01:50:25] <NCommander> Its a three step process
[01:50:26] <NCommander> Make account
[01:50:27] <mrcoolbp> matt_, will do = )
[01:50:34] <NCommander> Get personally verified ($70 USD), already done
[01:50:54] <NCommander> Verify domain (free, done)
[01:50:58] <NCommander> Get the organization verified ($128 I think, not sure what they want for verification)
[01:51:03] <NCommander> Get a wildcard SSL certificate
[01:51:39] <NCommander> I can handle organization verification, but to get the SSL certificate in the domain name, we need to get the WHOIS information pointed to the right place
[01:51:44] <matt_> that reminds me, incorporation costs were $384 =)
[01:51:48] <matt_> NCommander, yeah.
[01:51:55] <matt_> that's in Item 7. =)
[01:52:00] <NCommander> Indeed
[01:52:03] <mrcoolbp> matt_ did you front all those costs too?
[01:52:05] <NCommander> But I was bringing it up for completeness
[01:52:14] <matt_> mrcoolbp, yep, it's paid.
[01:52:20] <mrcoolbp> oh, thanks
[01:52:23] <NCommander> If we take costs from golive, I'd estimate we're roughly $4k in the hole
[01:52:27] <NCommander> possibly 5
[01:52:33] <matt_> ok, shall we move on to: Item 6b. accountant ($1500 retainer, $1500 to file) + taxes ($500 MA, $500 DE)
[01:52:45] <mrcoolbp> ug
[01:52:45] <matt_> so, these are rough estimates
[01:52:50] <NCommander> That might not be as hard
[01:52:51] <matt_> the good news is...
[01:52:59] <matt_> that most of them don't need to be paid for several months.
[01:53:06] <NCommander> I have a CPA who might be willing to do it sans retainer for us
[01:53:17] <matt_> our fiscal year ends on Dec. 31, so we need to file our taxes next spring.
[01:53:22] <matt_> NCommander, nice!
[01:53:30] <NCommander> Due to having a prior relationship with yours truly, and the one I discussed our tax situation w/
[01:53:47] <NCommander> I'll have to get a business arrangement formalized the next time I'm in New York, but he saw no problems with it
[01:53:58] <matt_> just something to keep on our radar screen, then. we should plan to get the accountant engaged before the end of the year.
[01:54:04] <NCommander> Ack
[01:54:06] <matt_> NCommander, great!
[01:54:16] <matt_> when will you be in NY next?
[01:54:28] <NCommander> I try not to be :-)
[01:54:31] <NCommander> November at the latest
[01:54:46] <matt_> i'm imagining you could just give him a call, instead?
[01:54:51] <NCommander> Yeah, or email
[01:55:02] <NCommander> But I'll probably have to sign legal paperwork, but its not a huge time crisis
[01:55:10] <matt_> which brings us to: Item: 6c. lawyer ($5000 retainer)
[01:55:21] <NCommander> So, if one thing we learned
[01:55:27] <NCommander> Finding a good lawyer is incredibly hard
[01:55:42] <matt_> true. and the good ones tend to be expensive.
[01:55:51] <NCommander> Especially one well versed in business laws and non-traditional stuff
[01:56:26] <matt_> perhaps it would be prudent to first get a sense of how much we can generate from subscription and swag revenue, and then regroup on the lawyer front?
[01:56:55] <mrcoolbp> second ^
[01:56:59] <NCommander> thirded ^
[01:57:07] <matt_> fourthed ^
[01:57:10] <matt_> oh, wait.
[01:57:11] <mrcoolbp> uh
[01:57:14] <matt_> =)
[01:57:14] <NCommander> .... there are three people here >.>;
[01:57:27] <matt_> ok, next: Item: 6d. commission original articles? how to structure? how much to budget? other ways to generate more original content?
[01:57:40] <NCommander> Oh boy
[01:57:58] <NCommander> So, while I"m pretty sure we can float our operational expenses off swag + subscriptions
[01:58:06] <NCommander> Not sure that will bring in enough on its own
[01:58:20] <NCommander> So I did some investigation of kickstarter/indiegogo (the later being my preferable choice)
[01:58:28] <matt_> i will now share with you my favorite comment to my stem-cell post:
[01:58:32] <matt_> "A. Good good extremely good. I felt I am at the right place reading this article."
[01:58:34] <matt_> =)
[01:58:48] <NCommander> Link? :-)
[01:58:49] <matt_> so, basically it looks like the community would enjoy some more original content...
[01:58:57] <matt_> http://soylentnews.org
[01:59:00] <NCommander> Well, the congressional rep thing went over suprisingly well
[01:59:07] <NCommander> (that was kinda shocking, considering it "just happened")
[01:59:16] <NCommander> .voice prospectacle
[01:59:16] -!- mode/#staff [+v prospectacle] by juggler
[01:59:20] <NCommander> prospectacle, now you have a voice
[01:59:21] <matt_> yeah, that was pretty awesome!
[01:59:41] <NCommander> So, here's roughly what I was thinking
[02:00:08] <NCommander> We want to have people work on a trial basis, writing what they feel like more or less, sites like ars technica often have op-ed pieces, with research/reviews/etc.
[02:00:19] -!- SirFinkus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:00:20] <NCommander> If someone can write, or we can mentor them, and the community likes them
[02:00:28] <prospectacle> thanks. I said: "ffer prizes for best article each week/month and the content quantity will take care of itself"
[02:00:37] <NCommander> prospectacle, we're all ops, so we can see it
[02:00:44] <matt_> i was actually thinking of starting on a purely "per article" basis.
[02:00:47] <prospectacle> oh, nevermind then
[02:00:49] <NCommander> I think we should work out paying on an article basis.
[02:00:54] <NCommander> damn it matt_, stop ninjaing me
[02:00:57] <mrcoolbp> heh
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[02:01:07] <matt_> wow!
[02:01:09] <NCommander> So, I actually brought this up w/ the accountant on how do we pay people
[02:01:22] <NCommander> We can basically 1099 (contractor) it, and call it good
[02:01:37] <matt_> yep, i 1099 a bunch of people, it's really cool :)
[02:01:43] <mrcoolbp> (quickbooks has a payroll function, but its per month)
[02:02:02] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, 1099-MISC is a single piece of paper saying you gave someone this much money for X
[02:02:02] <mrcoolbp> (meaning costs lik $20/mo)
[02:02:06] <matt_> yeah, i use quickbooks payroll too (for employees). it's expensive, and they lock you in kind of.
[02:02:06] <mrcoolbp> cool
[02:02:07] <NCommander> They're stupidly easy to fill out
[02:02:15] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: yeah I've seen one or two
[02:02:23] <NCommander> So, couple of notes
[02:02:27] <NCommander> I *hate* to put htis limitation
[02:02:28] <matt_> mrcoolbp, i'm paying $79/month :/
[02:02:33] <mrcoolbp> matt: eek
[02:02:41] <NCommander> But US citizens, nations, and lawful permament residents only
[02:02:49] <mrcoolbp> ah
[02:02:59] <matt_> that's a pretty serious limitation.
[02:03:08] <NCommander> matt_, the problem is running afoul another countries laws
[02:03:09] <mrcoolbp> yeah, for a group of global volunteers
[02:03:10] <matt_> did the accountant recommend that?
[02:03:16] <NCommander> No, this is personal experience
[02:03:24] <NCommander> For example, France requires you to be incorporated there if you hire more than X people
[02:03:40] <prospectacle> Hiring people is good if you've got lots of money. Prizes are good if you don't.
[02:03:50] <NCommander> prospectacle, most prize giveaways are limited
[02:03:52] <NCommander> Prize laws are scary
[02:03:56] <NCommander> And I mean scary scary
[02:04:12] <prospectacle> ok,
[02:04:19] <NCommander> There are a lot of legal redtape to make sure you aren't ripping people off, there's a reason most giveaways say:
[02:04:28] <NCommander> Void in Florida, New York, California, North Dakota
[02:04:39] <matt_> NCommander, i wonder if we really even need to 1099 someone if we are just saying: "submit your story on topic X, and if we accept it, we will pay you 50USD"
[02:04:45] <matt_> it's basically a straight sale.
[02:05:00] <matt_> they're not performing a service, they're just selling us their product.
[02:05:27] <NCommander> matt_, Right, but if we wanted to send someone to a conference (i.e., linux.com.au), and recoup expenses
[02:05:30] <NCommander> I don't see it as a sale
[02:05:34] <NCommander> I doubt the IRS would either
[02:05:44] <matt_> Yeah, that makes sense.
[02:06:12] <NCommander> If we 1099 people, our asses our covered
[02:06:24] <NCommander> If someone doesn't file their 1099s with the IRS, well, I hate to say it, thats there problem
[02:06:25] <mrcoolbp> s/our/are/
[02:06:29] <NCommander> Looping back to the international regulation bit
[02:06:38] <NCommander> Its also more complicated, since its reveune derived from US soil
[02:06:48] <NCommander> Which means even folks working for us internationally would have to file with the IRS
[02:07:12] <NCommander> I *honestly* don't see how we could pay anything who isn't able to work in the United States at least in the immediate future
[02:07:23] <matt_> yeah. perhaps we should keep it simple for now, and expand to international contractors after we have an accountant and lawyer engaged.
[02:07:29] <NCommander> Yeah
[02:07:32] <NCommander> I think realistically
[02:07:39] <NCommander> We'd need a presense in the EU
[02:08:08] <matt_> it really seems like getting original articles, interviews, etc. on the site in the near term could help bring in more users...
[02:08:11] <NCommander> Its going to be a huge PITA, one we want to deal with, but "Not Enough Vespen Gas"
[02:08:23] <NCommander> It appears we had a spike w/ that congressional article
[02:08:30] <matt_> Really!?
[02:08:34] <NCommander> Our UIDs registered shot up, I have't looked at piwik
[02:09:10] <NCommander> juggs, ... that honestly could work
[02:09:17] <NCommander> And if its a 501(c)(3), thats a tax rightoff for us
[02:09:20] <NCommander> *write-off
[02:09:39] <matt_> NCommander, unless that gets us into donation-solicitation-registration issues?
[02:09:49] * matt_ is not sure
[02:10:03] <NCommander> RIght
[02:10:13] <NCommander> I think the international thing is too complicated
[02:10:16] <NCommander> We can take things pro-bono
[02:10:34] <NCommander> And perhaps be able to offer those people positions first if/when we can get them in internationally
[02:10:52] <NCommander> Until then, unfortunately, we're going to have to limit it to those who legally reside in the United States
[02:11:07] <NCommander> (I think the definition is "has a social security number that allows them to work")
[02:11:16] <matt_> so, to articulate a plan: shall we 1. see how much we bring in from subscriptions, and 2. figure out if there is a budget to pay for original articles, etc.?
[02:11:25] <mrcoolbp> it's a pity, but it's a large portion of our users methings
[02:11:38] <NCommander> Site statistics disagree with you
[02:11:44] <NCommander> I think 2/3rds are US based
[02:12:00] <mrcoolbp> 2/3rds counts as a large portion NCommander
[02:12:10] <matt_> The next point is somewhat related, so shall we move on to: Item 6e. pay editors, developers, et al. or maintain all as volunteers at least until we are more sure about our finances?
[02:12:30] <NCommander> Well, I'd like to look at researching doing crowdfunding
[02:12:40] <NCommander> A lot of people woul dlike to donate to us, which for legal reasons we can't do (yet)
[02:12:58] <NCommander> But if a third-party does it for us, we're in the clear
[02:13:06] <matt_> that sounds good.
[02:13:09] <mrcoolbp> yes
[02:13:13] <NCommander> The catch is reveune raised this was is "pure income", its going to get taxed to hell and back
[02:13:25] <NCommander> Furthermore, learning from site stats
[02:13:30] <NCommander> We're a pretty insural group
[02:13:36] <NCommander> We have very little inbound traffic from third parties
[02:13:37] <matt_> oh, don't worry, we'll spend it, so there will be no net income :)
[02:13:46] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: also they take a portion of the "winnings" so-to-speak
[02:14:02] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, for indiegogo, its 4% + %5 if you fail to meet your goal
[02:14:09] <NCommander> (you keep what you raise regardless)
[02:14:12] <mrcoolbp> okay
[02:14:15] <mrcoolbp> that's not too bad
[02:14:25] <NCommander> If you're a 501(c)(3), you get a discount, but thats not an option for now
[02:14:54] <NCommander> The problem is promotion
[02:15:14] <matt_> Ok, so the final "upcoming expenditures" item is: Item 6f. reimburse start-up costs or issue stock?
[02:15:23] <NCommander> I prefer the former
[02:15:29] <NCommander> Easier, and saner
[02:15:35] <matt_> the issue is the following:
[02:16:06] <matt_> i don't think that we want to get into the situation of signing up a bunch of subscribers, and then spending all of that money to reimburse ourselves, leaving the site broke.
[02:16:27] <NCommander> WOrk out a payment plan, and just pay it back in small installments
[02:16:37] <matt_> if we sign up 200 people within the next couple of months, that's $4000 USD, which doesn't even cover our start-up costs.
[02:16:44] <NCommander> My concern w/ stock is legal stickiness, and we need a provision to have the board to buy back at a later date
[02:16:55] <matt_> so i actually have a template for that :)
[02:16:59] <NCommander> ....
[02:17:05] <NCommander> I *really* shouldn't be suprised
[02:17:08] <matt_> i think that the way to think about stock is:
[02:17:12] <NCommander> if we go stock, its common stock
[02:17:13] <NCommander> Not preferred
[02:17:23] <mrcoolbp> yes agreed
[02:17:32] <matt_> Our Certificate of Incorporation _only_ allows common stock. = )
[02:17:46] <NCommander> Indeed
[02:17:50] <matt_> it would have to be amended to allow Preferred.
[02:17:58] <NCommander> I just don't want to accidently sell the corporation :-P
[02:18:04] <matt_> hah!
[02:18:20] <matt_> i like to think of it more like: the company is printing its own money...
[02:18:50] * NCommander refuses to make the related Futurama joke about toliet paper
[02:18:57] <matt_> so, if we issue stock in exchange for "prior tangible and intangible contributions", then we don't have to reimburse.
[02:19:24] <matt_> we can build in a buy-back agreement or anything else we want.
[02:19:29] <matt_> it's just another contract = )
[02:19:39] <matt_> this one is only 4 pages of solid legalese =)
[02:20:23] <NCommander> I'm thinking more tax considerations on this, stock holders would have to pay capital gains tax (since the stock, as issued now) is worthless
[02:20:42] <matt_> no capital gains tax if you elect an exemption under section 83(b) = )
[02:20:52] <NCommander> .... you researched this way too much
[02:21:14] <matt_> i made sure to research ways to avoid paying capital gains tax, for sure!
[02:21:34] * NCommander coughs
[02:21:41] <NCommander> We could always pay for news articles with stock
[02:21:45] * NCommander ducks
[02:21:45] <matt_> why don't i send around the template for your consideration?
[02:22:10] <NCommander> Alright, though I'm still iffy on issuing any
[02:22:30] <matt_> thankfully, we already have all of the stockholder provisions in the bylaws, so it shouldn't take too much paperwork.
[02:22:33] <NCommander> My understanding was the provision for stock mostly existed to let us sell ourselves to the still theorical NFP parent organization
[02:22:40] <matt_> anyway, something to think about, but I just wanted to bring it up...
[02:23:04] <NCommander> Agreed
[02:23:06] <matt_> ...since it's a way to avoid paying thousands of dollars.
[02:23:10] <matt_> ok.
[02:23:19] <matt_> Now: Item 7. Open the floor to discussion of any other pressing issues: Amending the bylaws to include community involvement, SN's policy on Editorial Independence, Amend the Bylaws for IRC meetings, SSL certificates/domain, linode accounts...
[02:23:40] <NCommander> So, let's take it from the top
[02:24:07] <NCommander> I think we need a formal bylaw to make sure we can do IRC board meetings
[02:24:07] <matt_> go for it :)
[02:24:18] <matt_> that was taking it from the middle :)
[02:24:34] <NCommander> That was the first thing on the list :-P
[02:24:45] <matt_> nope, it's the 3rd :)
[02:24:52] <NCommander> Oh, brainfart
[02:24:53] <NCommander> Ok
[02:24:56] <matt_> anyway, i can draft an amendment to that effect, and circulate it.
[02:24:56] <NCommander> Ahem
[02:25:08] <NCommander> RIght, so lets action item matt_ on that
[02:25:15] <mrcoolbp> second
[02:25:21] <matt_> got it!
[02:25:35] <NCommander> Amending the bylaws for community involvement
[02:27:03] <matt_> how happy are we with our current voting system?
[02:27:11] * mrcoolbp ducks
[02:27:15] <matt_> :)
[02:27:31] <mrcoolbp> I'm hesitent to bind us to requiring the community to make any decisions, but we should at least get their opinions and consider them in many cases
[02:27:52] * prospectacle suggests meta.soylentnews.org
[02:28:03] <matt_> i'm sure they'll understand as long as we tell them "we are listening"
[02:28:07] * matt_ ducks
[02:28:08] <mrcoolbp> prospectacle: meta.sn is already in the works
[02:28:17] <prospectacle> mrcoolbp++
[02:29:13] <matt_> so, this is one of the few things that i don't have a template for. we are venturing into uncharted waters.
[02:29:55] <mrcoolbp> Something like: "Whenever applicable, the community should be informed of and included in decision-making"
[02:30:21] <matt_> perhaps we should throw it to the community? "How would you like to be involved?"
[02:30:31] <mrcoolbp> perhaps
[02:30:57] <mrcoolbp> I imagine a lot of ducking on my part due to vote-jokes will be required
[02:31:38] <matt_> perhaps this is a chance to be bold!
[02:32:04] <matt_> that was my only idea.
[02:32:41] <mrcoolbp> how far through the agenda are we matt_?
[02:32:48] <matt_> this is the last item :)
[02:32:52] <matt_> and the hardest.
[02:33:11] <matt_> (not the last sub-item, of course :)
[02:33:18] <mrcoolbp> right
[02:33:28] <matt_> it would be good to have some kind of plan on this.
[02:33:39] <matt_> other than just "think about it some more", you know?
[02:33:58] * mrcoolbp is waiting for NCommander to chime in on this one
[02:34:17] <matt_> oh, i know! since NC owes the community a mega-post on incorporation, he can include a question about how the community wants to be involved!
[02:34:33] <mrcoolbp> that's a good idea
[02:34:45] <NCommander> Damn it
[02:34:47] <NCommander> I DCed silently
[02:34:49] <NCommander> Last message I saw was five minutes ago
[02:34:57] <NCommander> <matt_> how happy are we with our current voting system?
[02:35:00] <NCommander> * NCommander hears load crickets
[02:35:01] <NCommander> <NCommander> *loud
[02:35:05] <NCommander> <NCommander> I think we still all have scars from the name vote
[02:35:07] <NCommander> <NCommander> Furthermore, the biggest reason we didn't have a problem w/ sockpuppets and such is we more or less sprung it on the community w/ little warning
[02:35:10] <NCommander> <NCommander> We're going to figure out a more robust system of voting which to the extent possible weeds out sock puppets, dupes, etc.
[02:35:13] <NCommander> <NCommander> And intergrates into slashcode
[02:35:15] <NCommander> <NCommander> I did a bit of work on this, but got sidetracked. Its not trivial, and going to be a rite PITA
[02:35:17] <NCommander> <NCommander> I think this is more approiate as a longer term goal, we're not going to be able to solve this meeting, and I think its probably going to require a couple of NCommander posts to the community to resolve how we want to handle this
[02:35:21] <NCommander> <NCommander> What it boils down to though, is the community rep position MUST NOT be a "in name only thing", a lot of organizations do stuff like this, but limit the power of those so the corporate interests always win
[02:35:24] <NCommander> * NCommander remembers this from OpenSolaris, and other projects
[02:36:16] <matt_> <matt_> oh, i know! since NC owes the community a mega-post on incorporation, he can include a question about how the community wants to be involved!
[02:36:30] <NCommander> That works
[02:36:32] <mrcoolbp> that's a good idea
[02:36:34] <matt_> that seems like an easy next step.
[02:36:36] <NCommander> I think I got rate limited
[02:36:37] <matt_> great!
[02:36:40] <NCommander> I'll take that action item
[02:37:07] <matt_> which brings us to: SN's policy on editorial independence
[02:37:30] <matt_> this is a very important issue for any serious publisher, i think.
[02:37:32] <NCommander> Which brings us to the age-old debate on if SN should just cover tech news, or be more general
[02:37:58] <mrcoolbp> I suggest we involve the community on that decision = )
[02:38:01] <matt_> right. and also, who makes the final editorial decisions.
[02:38:22] <NCommander> We probably need a "Chief Editoral Officer" or something
[02:38:33] <matt_> in other words, putting it in writing that the editors have actual final say on what gets published.
[02:38:43] <NCommander> Indeed
[02:38:45] <mrcoolbp> yes
[02:38:54] <matt_> ok. i can draft something to that effect.
[02:39:01] <NCommander> We need a formal policy on it, and we also need a formal policy to handle retraction/corrections
[02:39:10] <matt_> it doesn't really need to be in the bylaws, just the SN policy manual or something.
[02:39:14] <matt_> yep.
[02:39:17] <NCommander> Sooner or later, we're going to post something that's wrong, retracting it can go a long way to avoid the libel suit
[02:39:31] <matt_> and a policy on user complaints, banning, etc, etc.
[02:39:48] <mrcoolbp> TOS/EULA/Privacy policy?
[02:39:50] <NCommander> We've got a lot of stuff to draw a formal policy from on that
[02:40:17] <matt_> yeah. although we want to keep it simple enough that people will actually read it and understand it.
[02:40:30] <NCommander> SO I probably shouldn't write it :-)
[02:40:34] <matt_> hah!
[02:40:35] <mrcoolbp> rofl
[02:41:10] <NCommander> Pretty sure I'm approaching war and peace in terms of wordcount on the site
[02:41:25] <matt_> ok. why don't i draft a section on editorial independence for the new SN Policy manual, and then we can regroup and figure out what other sections are needed?
[02:41:39] <mrcoolbp> sure
[02:41:41] <NCommander> We should get the editoral team looped into that discussion
[02:41:46] <mrcoolbp> yes
[02:41:47] <matt_> absolutely.
[02:41:59] <NCommander> Lets not make it in a vaccum, if anything, when we do it, it blows up in our face
[02:42:03] <NCommander> (subscriber 1.0 post anyone?)
[02:42:18] <mrcoolbp> ?
[02:42:22] <matt_> NCommander is still traumatized from that.
[02:42:50] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, the first post about subscription ideas :-), which I tempted fate by saying "not-expecting-pitchforks dept"
[02:43:04] * mrcoolbp is thinking we should have invited other staff to this meeting
[02:43:24] <NCommander> I was expecting, TBH, something a bit more businessnessy, less policy
[02:43:47] <NCommander> Though our attempts to organize site meetings have tended to end in abysmal failure
[02:43:59] <matt_> ok, so last sub-item of the last item is "SSL certificates/domain, linode accounts"
[02:44:03] <NCommander> That's a big one
[02:44:17] <NCommander> SO, right now, all the site assets are registered in various names (some of them likely false)
[02:44:17] <matt_> so another reason that i wanted to bring up the reimbursement vs. stock issue is:
[02:44:52] <matt_> if we go with the stock option, the "transfer of tangible and intangible property" is built in.
[02:45:00] <matt_> so it gets taken care of in that way.
[02:46:17] <NCommander> Make sure your stock proposal explains that bit :-)
[02:46:39] <NCommander> But right now, we need to get all the site assets under the name of the business, as well as tabulate and figure out current debts
[02:47:00] <NCommander> I'd like to know how deep the hole we're in is
[02:47:36] <matt_> yeah. who else currently owns important site assets?
[02:47:55] <matt_> in other words: who else owns anything that SN would be interested in owning?
[02:47:58] <NCommander> So, I believe I have the Linode's, and you (matt_) has the domains
[02:48:03] <NCommander> Ownership of the logo is unknown
[02:48:27] <mrcoolbp> correct, I can email frogblast and try to get an answer on that
[02:48:31] <matt_> if that's it, then it's pretty simple, relatively speaking.
[02:48:31] <NCommander> We're unsure who submitted the name originally, but given its not trademarked, and it was proposed for the very purpose of creating the site, I think we're in the clean
[02:48:42] <NCommander> *clear
[02:49:06] <mrcoolbp> yeah I have a first name only on that one
[02:49:30] <mrcoolbp> I could dig it up on the wiki if need be...
[02:49:34] <NCommander> Given that this was a proposal for creating the site vs. altslashdot, honestly, I'm not hugely concerned on it
[02:50:06] <NCommander> Its pretty cut and dry IMHO, "we need a name, submit ideas here", and we use it
[02:50:38] <matt_> ok, so shall we re-state our todo lists before we adjourn?
[02:50:42] <matt_> i have 4 items:
[02:51:19] <matt_> 1. Email template combined stock and property-transfer agreement.
[02:51:36] <matt_> 2. Draft and email amendment to Bylaws to allow IRC board meetings.
[02:52:15] <matt_> 3. In collaboration with the editorial team, draft an "editorial independence" section of the SN Policy Manual.
[02:52:52] <matt_> 4. Record the minutes of this meeting, and get confirmation from Michael and Ben by email of the votes that were taken.
[02:53:08] <NCommander> How about set next meeting date
[02:53:19] <NCommander> How frequently do we want to do these?
[02:53:22] <matt_> could do if you want, or we could just do it by email, etc.
[02:53:43] <matt_> it's just nice to have as much advance notice as possible :)
[02:53:58] <NCommander> Well, do we want to do monthly, biweekly, or weekly?
[02:54:07] <NCommander> Or something more arcane, like on every full moon :-P
[02:54:19] <matt_> i think that we will need to have another one before too long to tie up the loose ends from this meeting.
[02:54:47] <NCommander> How about a week from now, same time, same place?
[02:54:52] <matt_> say in a week or so? it kind of depends on our progress...
[02:55:05] <NCommander> It will be a quick meeting if not much has happened
[02:55:12] <NCommander> This one was just long since we had to confirm the officers
[02:55:29] <matt_> yeah, i can do one week from today at 7pm EST.
[02:55:41] <NCommander> I can do one week from today 4pm AKDT
[02:56:07] <mrcoolbp> hmm, I'm not 100% on it, I'll have to get back to you gusy
[02:56:10] <mrcoolbp> guys*
[02:56:29] <NCommander> Let's call it tentative meeting, assuming mrcoolbp can make it
[02:56:35] <mrcoolbp> okay
[02:56:38] <NCommander> if not, we can reschedule, I'm fairly flexible
[02:56:43] <NCommander> THough I'm without home internet until Thursday
[02:56:49] * NCommander says bad things about GCI :-P
[02:56:52] <matt_> ok.
[02:56:59] <matt_> NCommander, how are you going to live without internet?
[02:57:06] <NCommander> matt_, I moved into a starbucks
[02:57:17] <matt_> i see :)
[02:57:19] <NCommander> Which is why I DCed, had to fill out the nag screen again
[02:57:41] <matt_> so, anything else for this meeting?
[02:57:41] * NCommander has been commuting to and from starbucks all week
[02:57:42] <NCommander> :-)
[02:58:12] <NCommander> Oh
[02:58:13] <NCommander> One thing
[02:58:36] <NCommander> We should post minutes to the wiki, and I"ll summarize them into the "we're incorporated" post
[02:59:12] <matt_> ok. so, as Secretary, i am supposed to record the proceedings of this meeting.
[02:59:15] <mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[02:59:29] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, probably want a new section, Board Meetings
[02:59:32] <matt_> which means that I will print out a copy of this log, and put it in a safe :)
[02:59:34] <mrcoolbp> k
[02:59:34] <NCommander> Staff Meetings are site internal stuff
[02:59:49] <NCommander> matt_, I can give you an admin bit on the wiki so you can protect pages
[03:00:04] <matt_> cool.
[03:00:40] <NCommander> matt_, let me know when you make a wiki account and I'll bless it
[03:00:52] <matt_> will do!
[03:01:08] <matt_> ok. anything else (for the official board meeting)?
[03:01:21] <NCommander> Proposal: Close the meeting
[03:01:23] <NCommander> Aye!
[03:01:29] <matt_> All those in favor of adjourning?
[03:01:31] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[03:01:33] <matt_> Aye!
[03:01:33] <NCommander> Aye!
[03:01:40] <matt_> The first Meeting of the Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC stands adjourned!
[03:01:47] <NCommander> That was oddly productive for a business meeting
[03:01:48] <matt_> =)
[03:02:07] <NCommander> I can't get used to PBC being at the end :-P
[03:02:12] <NCommander> It looks weird to me >>>;
[03:02:14] <NCommander> *>.>;
[03:02:15] <mrcoolbp> yeah agreed
[03:02:16] <matt_> yeah, it's pretty weird :)
[03:02:19] <NCommander> I realize its a good thing, but still
[03:02:38] <mrcoolbp> I keep reading Soylent Publi Broadcasting
[03:02:44] <matt_> so, technically we are "SoylentNews PBC" doing business as (d.b.a.) "SoylentNews"
[03:02:51] <NCommander> I read it as Public Broadcasting Company
[03:02:57] <NCommander> Which TBH, isn't that far off the mark
[03:03:06] <mrcoolbp> good point
[03:03:13] <mrcoolbp> a happy accident
[03:03:26] * mrcoolbp buys quickbooks online and figures out how to use it
[03:03:36] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, web version or real version of it?
[03:03:44] * NCommander wonders what the alternate universe version of me that never got involved with SN is doing
[03:03:51] <mrcoolbp> real version
[03:04:00] <NCommander> Probably still living in Central America slurping piña colatas
[03:04:11] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: it's $150
[03:04:31] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, single user license or multiuser?
[03:04:40] * NCommander notes license transferability would be a good thing
[03:04:50] <mrcoolbp> lol
[03:04:57] <mrcoolbp> <juggs> 1st entry in Quickbooks is the purchase of Quickbooks ;)
[03:05:02] <NCommander> !grab juggs
[03:05:05] <mrcoolbp> .voice juggs
[03:05:05] -!- mode/#staff [+v juggs] by juggler
[03:05:28] <NCommander> <juggs> 1st entry in Quickbooks is the purchase of Quickbooks ;)
[03:05:49] <juggs> that was all very professional :)
[03:06:11] <NCommander> We're very serious on our mission
[03:06:15] <NCommander> :-)
[03:06:38] <matt_> NCommander, mrcoolbp, i will draft an email to you now to confirm the votes, etc.
[03:06:45] <NCommander> BTW, as a note
[03:06:48] <mrcoolbp> NCommander how many users should we get?
[03:06:53] <NCommander> I need to explain why we're buying quickbooks :-/
[03:07:09] * NCommander notes in the manifesto we were trying to avoid propiterary software but there isn't a solution to this, gnucash really isn't an option
[03:07:27] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: each user is $150 = /
[03:07:32] <NCommander> Ow
[03:07:37] <NCommander> Ugh
[03:07:40] <NCommander> Hold on a sec
[03:07:40] <mrcoolbp> yeah
[03:07:42] <mrcoolbp> k
[03:08:06] * mrcoolbp emails frogblast about the candybar SN logo
[03:08:40] <NCommander> For just tabulating money in/money out, we could probably do it with gnucash in the short term
[03:08:49] <NCommander> The biggest problem w/ gnucash; no tax intergration
[03:09:03] <NCommander> I *really* don't want to spend more money if its avoidable
[03:10:18] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, since I've got to tabulate all the past expenses from receipts, I could setup the initial books, then pass them to you
[03:10:32] <NCommander> and I can do them in GNUcash, and we can convert them later to quickbooks
[03:10:47] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I've never used gnucash nor do I (currently) have a system that could run it
[03:11:07] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, its available for windows
[03:11:11] <mrcoolbp> oh cool
[03:11:54] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, it just looks fugly, and if you never done double-book accounting, its a bit confusing
[03:11:57] <NCommander> But QB does the same thing
[03:12:02] <NCommander> matt_, does this sound kosher to you?
[03:12:11] <matt_> reading the scrollback...
[03:12:14] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, http://www.gnucash.org
[03:12:20] <mrcoolbp> there already
[03:13:00] <matt_> omg
[03:13:19] <matt_> so the plan is to migrate to QB eventually or no?
[03:13:42] <NCommander> matt_, I rather not drop $150 per user if its avoidable
[03:13:52] <matt_> we just need one user, right?
[03:14:06] <matt_> i.e., simultaneous user.
[03:14:07] <NCommander> matt_, what happens if we get a new treasurer :-)
[03:14:21] <matt_> is it really linked to a person? (that doesn't sound right)
[03:14:28] <NCommander> I'll have to check
[03:14:32] <NCommander> I'm not against it per say
[03:14:39] <NCommander> But the cost makes me choke slightly
[03:14:53] <matt_> oh boy, we should have put "account/password management" on the agenda :/
[03:15:09] <matt_> i.e., to make sure we avoid single-point-of-failure situations...
[03:15:10] <NCommander> Hindsight - 20/20
[03:15:14] <matt_> :)
[03:15:18] <mrcoolbp> add to next agenda?
[03:15:23] <NCommander> That was like our IRC meeting blunder
[03:15:24] <NCommander> :-)
[03:15:26] <juggs> register the license to the corp? surely that's possible. corp's don't have "named user" licenses :/
[03:15:36] <NCommander> juggs, generally they're licensed to a user in a corp
[03:15:36] <matt_> the good news is I can start drafting our next agenda!
[03:15:38] <NCommander> I've dealt with that BS
[03:15:48] <juggs> that's ugly
[03:16:49] <NCommander> Yeah
[03:17:00] <mrcoolbp> matt_ password management and documenting procedures for carrying out essential tasks/commands
[03:17:08] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I'm going to tabulate all my old receipts and such for you up to this point
[03:17:22] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: okay, should I hold off on buying QB?
[03:17:25] <matt_> mrcoolbp, exactly. that sounds like something that should go in the SN Policy Manual
[03:17:32] <mrcoolbp> yeah
[03:17:37] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, lets us figure out what the licensing is first, if need be, I'll buy it for you
[03:17:48] * NCommander doesn't like making people drop $150 if recomp isn't going to be speedy
[03:18:37] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: that's mighty nice of you, and it would simplify the whole recomp thing that we have to work out with you two already
[03:18:41] <NCommander> matt_, for the record, your expenses to this point are basically two items: "Purchase of Site Assets", and "Incorporation Fees"?
[03:19:07] <matt_> i believe that is correct.
[03:19:14] <NCommander> Alright, we can fix it later
[03:19:27] <matt_> there was something to do with the domain transfer that didn't happen, but i believe that got refunded.
[03:19:33] * NCommander needs to figure out a better way to word blackmail :-P
[03:20:30] <NCommander> You know, ironically though, I think it worked for the better since we wouldn't have matt_ helping with incorporation otherwise
[03:20:38] * NCommander breaks down laughing in RL at that realization
[03:21:02] <mrcoolbp> hahaha
[03:21:35] <juggs> who do I hand the receipt for the SN bugatti veyron too? :D
[03:21:36] <NCommander> There's a fortune cookie quote somewhere in there, but damn if I know it
[03:21:48] <matt_> =)
[03:21:50] <NCommander> juggs, I need a reject stamp made for that :-P
[03:22:10] <NCommander> So, I'll make the initial books in GNUcash, since I've basically got five months of receipts to tabulate
[03:22:35] <NCommander> It should be relatively easy to convert that to Quickbooks or something else by hand, I just need to add it all up
[03:23:36] <NCommander> That being said, if someone buys a Ford Pinto, and paints it in SN colors
[03:24:04] <NCommander> I'd be sorely tempted to convince people at the next board meeting to approve that expense to complete with the Slashdot PT Cruiser
[03:24:18] <mrcoolbp> oh god
[03:25:00] <juggs> my ancient golf could do with a respray....
[03:25:22] <NCommander> OOOH
[03:25:24] <NCommander> There's an idea
[03:25:39] <NCommander> We could buy a car for $500 dollars and enter it in the 24 hours of LeMon's Race
[03:26:26] <NCommander> https://www.24hoursoflemons.com
[03:27:18] <juggs> Does it get much press coverage?
[03:27:31] <NCommander> Only if something explodes
[03:27:43] <mrcoolbp> NCommander, do I still need to install gnucash so you can send me over the files for doing the maual data migration to QB?
[03:28:26] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, well, you'll want it to review the books
[03:28:33] * mrcoolbp notes NCommander is willing to spend $500 on a car he hopes explode but not QuickBooks = )
[03:28:34] <NCommander> My laptop battery going to die, so I'm going to go hunt for an outlet
[03:28:46] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, one of those is propietary software :-)!
[03:29:03] <mrcoolbp> that's funny
[03:29:14] <mrcoolbp> BRB
[03:46:36] <mrcoolbp> http://imgur.com
[03:46:42] <mrcoolbp> coffee mug ^
[03:47:51] <juggs> that was quick.
[03:49:20] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, damn
[04:09:32] <matt_> mrcoolbp, that looks nice!
[04:11:55] <mrcoolbp> matt_ thanks, I'm just playing around at this point
[04:14:23] * mrcoolbp goes to setup a paypal account
[04:14:33] <matt_> NCommander, i created a wiki account. Username: "BlackHole" Could you give me that bit that you mentioned for creating protected articles? Thanks!
[04:16:11] <NCommander> matt_, added
[04:16:25] <matt_> thanks!
[04:17:40] <NCommander> matt_, you should be able to see the Protect button under the dropdown (next to the search bar)
[04:18:09] <matt_> yep. it's there :)
[04:26:47] <mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_: shit we need a phone number
[04:26:54] <matt_> for paypal?
[04:26:57] <mrcoolbp> yeah
[04:27:12] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, you can use mine
[04:27:14] <matt_> i think that the Treasurer's phone number should suffice.
[04:27:19] <mrcoolbp> okay
[04:27:31] <matt_> okay to which one? :)
[04:27:45] <NCommander> If not, we get a phone number from diamondcard, and we sent it to ring the entire board of directors :-)
[04:28:04] <matt_> argh. just use NC's then :)
[04:29:19] <NCommander> matt_, I could make it a 900 number, then people pay to talk to us :)
[04:29:45] <matt_> if we can go at least 1 year before our first lawsuit, i will be very happy =)
[04:30:23] <mrcoolbp> ROFL guys
[04:30:28] <mrcoolbp> so what's the concensu?
[04:30:33] <mrcoolbp> concensus
[04:30:51] <matt_> mrcoolbp, i guess you have the tiebreaking vote :)
[04:31:14] * NCommander notes his phone has interesting definitions of the word "works"
[04:31:18] <mrcoolbp> I'll just go with the Treasurer
[04:31:36] <mrcoolbp> I've tried calling NCommander's phone, it's not pretty
[04:32:35] -!- prospectacle has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[04:32:41] <NCommander> At the moment, its passing through five networks
[04:32:56] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, your home network -> Google -> T-Mobile -> AT&T -> GCI :-)
[04:34:00] <mrcoolbp> yeah exactly
[04:34:24] <NCommander> Voodoo Cellphone Networking
[04:34:35] <NCommander> Its gets *real* exciting when I'm using a local SIM card
[04:34:50] <mrcoolbp> that's kinda a crazy setup you got there NCommander
[04:35:54] <mrcoolbp> matt_ we are a "Corporation" right?
[04:36:03] <matt_> correct :)
[04:36:07] <mrcoolbp> k
[04:37:36] <mrcoolbp> matt_, NCommander: I'm going with Category: Entertainment and Media
[04:37:44] <mrcoolbp> Subcategory: digital content
[04:38:02] <mrcoolbp> total montly sales estimate: up to $5k USD
[04:38:33] <mrcoolbp> matt_: which document is the EIN in ?
[04:38:51] -!- mattie_p has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[04:39:03] <matt_> it's in its own document.
[04:39:05] -!- mattie_p [mattie_p!~mattie_p@Soylent/Staff/Editor/mattiep] has joined #staff
[04:39:05] -!- mode/#staff [+v mattie_p] by juggler
[04:39:23] <matt_> mrcoolbp, it had an incomprehensible file name, if I remember. one moment...
[04:39:38] <mrcoolbp> matt_ that's all I needed
[04:39:41] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[04:39:44] <matt_> ok.
[04:40:32] <NCommander> bah, yet another DC
[04:40:37] <NCommander> * NCommander has had inbound callers wait up to a minute before my phone starts ringing
[04:40:38] <mrcoolbp> Paypal: "Do you have a business website?" Me: uh, yeah, we do.
[04:40:38] <NCommander> <NCommander> mrcoolbp, its legacy now, but I was in a situation every few weeks I was in another country, but always had to be reachable by phone
[04:40:42] <NCommander> <NCommander> To prevent my costs from going through the roof, I'd buy a local SIM, then do some black magic to get it to forward to skype or the local SIM
[04:40:45] <NCommander> <NCommander> So I could make international calls and recieve then on my normal number for a few hundred for 500-600 minutes a month vs. a few thousand
[04:40:48] <NCommander> <NCommander> I use Google Voice since I don't know another service which can receive and send text messages seemlessly
[04:40:51] <NCommander> <NCommander> (the text gets resent to my phone as SMS, and I can reply to the special number that comes to it)
[04:40:54] <NCommander> <NCommander> I need to recheck the setup
[04:40:56] <NCommander> <NCommander> I suspect it MIGHT be in a routing loop
[04:40:58] <NCommander> <NCommander> (something is going to voicemail too soon which causes GV to abort the call)
[04:41:00] <NCommander> <NCommander> OOOH
[04:41:02] <NCommander> <NCommander> I just had a great way to make money
[04:41:06] <NCommander> <NCommander> "Yell at NCommander, dial 1-900-SOY-NEWS, $2.99 first minute, .99 each minute after that"
[04:41:08] <NCommander> ^- mrcoolbp
[04:41:41] <mrcoolbp> rofl!
[04:41:47] <mrcoolbp> Paypal: "Do you have a business website?" Me: uh, yeah, we do.
[04:42:30] <mrcoolbp> UG, they want my SSN
[04:42:33] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, well ... we dn't have a website for "SoylentNews PBC" itself
[04:42:42] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, yours?!
[04:42:46] <mrcoolbp> we don't... hmmm
[04:42:47] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, they should want the EIN
[04:43:02] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: The PATRIOT Act requires all financial institutions to ask for your Social Security number and confirm your identity to help prevent money laundering.
[04:43:09] <mrcoolbp> fucking patriot act!!!!
[04:43:25] <NCommander> Fuck. That. Shit.
[04:43:28] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: yeah I gave them the EIN already
[04:43:29] <matt_> if only we knew a congressional candidate who wanted to get that repealed...
[04:43:35] <mrcoolbp> haha
[04:43:56] <mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_ I gave it sn.org as the business website, was that in error?
[04:44:06] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, eh, that's where we're posting business crap
[04:44:09] <matt_> that should be fine.
[04:44:12] <NCommander> We should probably have business.soylentnews.org
[04:44:19] <NCommander> or pbc.soylentnews.org
[04:44:34] * NCommander notes he even briefly had his own 800 number
[04:44:36] <mrcoolbp> oh they just want my last 4 of my SSN, that's not as bad
[04:45:26] <NCommander> I don't get the fasication w/ SSNs
[04:45:27] * mrcoolbp presses "Next"
[04:45:31] <NCommander> They're fucking predictable
[04:45:40] <juggs> throw up a holding page at soylentnews.org/pbc with some coming soon text and some detritus contact info and corp reg details. Yeh - that's the business website... what of it? :D
[04:45:58] * NCommander notes if you know where and when someone was born, you could likely guess their SSN
[04:46:19] <mrcoolbp> matt_, NCommander:
[04:46:26] <mrcoolbp> Frogblast: "I made the logo, but of course SoylentNews-the-organization is welcome to whatever rights to it are desirable. I can sign a transfer form, or whip one up when I have time if you want it fancy."
[04:46:41] <mrcoolbp> juggs: excellent idea
[04:46:58] <mrcoolbp> Paypal: "Welcome Ben! Your business account is open."
[04:47:05] <matt_> yay!
[04:47:20] <NCommander> Sweet
[04:47:26] <NCommander> This is becoming scary real ...
[04:47:30] <NCommander> Like ... O_O;
[04:47:32] <mrcoolbp> yeah it really is
[04:47:36] * NCommander notes it hasn't sunk in
[04:47:43] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, can you make subaccounts for us?
[04:47:47] <juggs> good work. I'm shocked they haven't immediately locked the account and demanded phone verification or some such.
[04:47:59] * mrcoolbp confirms email
[04:48:00] <matt_> mrcoolbp, regarding Frogblast: if he can whip up something to transfer the rights, that would be great, i think.
[04:48:43] <mrcoolbp> matt_ do you have a template for that?
[04:49:06] <matt_> yeah, but i don't want FrogBlast to faint ;)
[04:49:08] <juggs> It could be cool if we could have a blue candy bar version for the blue theme......
[04:49:12] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: what is "BTSync"
[04:49:13] <mrcoolbp> ?
[04:49:28] * juggs pipes down
[04:49:38] <mrcoolbp> juggs: it's cool man
[04:52:24] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: do you know what "BTSync" is?
[04:52:31] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, not a clue
[04:52:47] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, he's referring to the chillax theme
[04:52:57] <mrcoolbp> Here’s a BTSync secret for all of the source files, and versions I was playing around with: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
[04:53:16] <NCommander> OH
[04:53:23] <NCommander> That's what slash refers to as a secret word
[04:53:25] <mrcoolbp> looks like a long hex code
[04:53:30] <juggs> I feel like an interloper in #staff and I blither when tired.
[04:53:43] <NCommander> I think its the callback from Paypal to SoylentNews to tell them "Payment Successful"
[04:54:08] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: what?
[04:54:18] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: that's from frogblast
[04:54:20] <NCommander> Oh
[04:54:24] <NCommander> Uh
[04:54:28] <NCommander> No fucking clue then
[04:54:37] <juggs> And yes - I was meaning the Chillax theme, it would seem more consistent to have a blue candy bar there. Although I feel bad saying that as someone put effort into the Chillax logo and I like that to.
[04:54:46] <mrcoolbp> sorry, I'm multi-tasking
[04:54:57] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, NP :-), you're fucking awesome
[04:55:00] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I don't know what he's telling me
[04:55:24] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I"ll forward you the email
[04:56:10] <mrcoolbp> this is fun = )
[04:57:05] <juggs> mrcoolbp, It reads to me that he is happy to give you whatever rights you need to it and if you provide the paperwork he will sign over rights or can provide their own pro-forma transfer if acceptable to you.
[04:57:52] <mrcoolbp> juggs: yeah, but he provided this BTSync password that I don't understand how to use
[04:58:11] <NCommander> Google suggests its some sorta app ...
[04:58:24] <mrcoolbp> matt_, NCommander: "Select one: Process all payments, including debit and credit cards, through PayPal
[04:58:24] <mrcoolbp> Add PayPal checkout as another way to get paid
[04:58:24] <mrcoolbp> Credit card logos like Paypal, Visa, MasterCard, Maestro
[04:58:24] <mrcoolbp> Checkout with Paypal
[04:58:34] <mrcoolbp> er, that didn't come out right
[04:58:40] <mrcoolbp> AH
[04:58:42] <NCommander> hey TheMightyBuzzard
[04:58:46] <mrcoolbp> thanks TMB!
[04:58:51] <NCommander> Having the PSDs files would be handy
[04:58:57] <mrcoolbp> absolutely
[04:59:32] <matt_> mrcoolbp, could you try that again?
[04:59:54] <mrcoolbp> matt_ NCommander: do we want to accept "paypall" or "credit cards via paypall"?
[04:59:54] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, so, thinking backwards, for international authors/orignal content, if they get a good string of "free articles", I think we could justify the legal expense to get them paid and on board
[04:59:59] <NCommander> I think that's the way we pitch it
[05:00:13] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, "yes", requiring a paypal account will cause people to hunt us down and murder us with sporks
[05:00:14] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: agreed
[05:00:21] <matt_> mrcoolbp, oh, credit cards via paypal and paypal.
[05:00:26] <mrcoolbp> got it
[05:00:29] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, for some countries, like Canada, it should be straightforward
[05:00:34] <NCommander> Japan, eh, not so much
[05:00:43] <mrcoolbp> matt_: they are asking me to choose only one....
[05:00:55] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, .... I could have gone the rest of my life w/o that mental image
[05:01:01] <matt_> i think "credit cards via paypal" is the safest bet.
[05:01:14] <mrcoolbp> matt_ maybe I can change it to allow both
[05:01:25] <mrcoolbp> matt_ all that's left is the bank account
[05:01:28] <NCommander> Its a pity our first income is virtual
[05:01:29] <matt_> yeah, i really don't see paypal not accepting paypal :)
[05:01:30] <juggs> BitTorrent Sync - it's P2P dropbox for syncing files across devices. I've no idea why he would be giving you his password or a password as I've never used it. Perhaps it is the password to a particular share on BTSync that contains the souce work for the logo. ~shrug~
[05:01:36] <NCommander> I'd love to tape the virtual $20 dollar bill to the wall
[05:01:41] <matt_> wiki done :)
[05:01:49] <NCommander> CHrist, you guys are making me look bad
[05:01:54] <matt_> lol!
[05:02:17] <NCommander> Fuck it
[05:02:21] * NCommander starts tabulating reciepts
[05:02:35] <juggs> may the OCD be with you
[05:02:53] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: "Make payment buttons using HTML" VS "Work with an e-commerce solution already integrated with PayPal" ?
[05:02:56] <NCommander> Let's figure out how deep this old
[05:03:04] <mrcoolbp> I'm guessing the former
[05:03:04] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, eh .... I'm not sure on that
[05:03:20] <NCommander> It might be the later, slashcode specifically has support for paypal
[05:03:23] <NCommander> Hope we can change that one
[05:03:26] <NCommander> Actually
[05:03:28] <NCommander> has to be the later
[05:03:34] <NCommander> Due to the callback from paypal
[05:04:03] <mrcoolbp> okay
[05:06:17] * NCommander is trying to remember his double book accounting
[05:06:18] <NCommander> :-)
[05:09:10] * NCommander defines Michael Casadevall and Matt Angel as two Equity accounts
[05:09:11] <NCommander> yay
[05:10:41] <mrcoolbp> matt_ now that we know we can get the logo transferred to us, we should TM it or something right?
[05:11:14] <matt_> sure. you can just add TM after it. just don't add (R), cause that's unlawful unless it's actually registered :)
[05:11:52] <matt_> we could register it, but that costs $$$.
[05:11:54] <mrcoolbp> just add it to the graphic? that would be weird
[05:12:41] <matt_> oh, well yeah, that's what a lot of people do, just really small. you don't have to if it would be distracting, etc.
[05:13:18] * NCommander is itemizing expenses :-)
[05:14:00] <juggs> mrcoolbp, OK BTSync is a means to share files peer2peer. Files are encrypted using some AES voodoo so only those with the magic key can unlock specific shares. A decentralised dropbox effectively. I presume you need the / a BTSync client to access it. Given he's sent you a plain text email with the key, it kind of defeats the purpose of encrypting it and decentralising it, but there ya go, it's a legitimate use for the BitTorrent protocol :D
[05:14:40] <mrcoolbp> juggs: yup, I'm just figuring that out here
[05:14:46] <mrcoolbp> I think I got it
[05:14:58] * mrcoolbp doesn't see a psd
[05:15:15] <NCommander> ok, linode expenses through March tabulated
[05:15:24] <mrcoolbp> oh it's svg
[05:15:27] <NCommander> so far, $200 USD in the hole
[05:15:30] * NCommander knows thats going up
[05:15:55] <NCommander> I'm not sure how to log this
[05:15:58] <NCommander> Actually
[05:16:00] <NCommander> yes I do
[05:16:11] * NCommander notes we got an 800 dollar refund to Linode when we canceled Jon's linodes
[05:16:15] <NCommander> That's a credit towards me
[05:16:22] * juggs suspects some injected raw caffeine to the population of #staff
[05:16:34] <juggs> s/some/someone/
[05:18:01] <NCommander> Credit Transfer Adjustment $0.00 $267.70
[05:18:05] <NCommander> Da fuck?
[05:18:06] <NCommander> Oh
[05:18:09] <NCommander> They refunded too much
[05:18:31] <mrcoolbp> haha
[05:19:18] <NCommander> Ah, crud
[05:19:25] <NCommander> I'm going to have to calculate out my personal linode
[05:19:28] <NCommander> Damn it
[05:19:33] * NCommander is working on it
[05:19:36] <matt_> bryan, thanks!
[05:19:40] <NCommander> bryan, hey!
[05:19:42] <mrcoolbp> .voice bryan
[05:19:42] -!- mode/#staff [+v bryan] by juggler
[05:19:46] <bryan> hola
[05:19:59] <mrcoolbp> bryan: we've had a really cool week
[05:20:12] <NCommander> Officially incorporated, have paypal account, working out a business pan
[05:20:13] <bryan> just noticed linode has a $10 plan now, interesting
[05:20:13] <NCommander> *plan
[05:20:30] * NCommander notes kinda ironically though that pipedot is much closer to slashdot's original premise than we ever were
[05:21:24] <mrcoolbp> bryan: glad that we are still friendly instead of seeing eachother as the "competition"
[05:21:25] <bryan> ya, but i've tried to stay pretty low-volume, no need for 2 sites doing nearly the exact same thing to split users between them
[05:22:34] <NCommander> this is a lot of fracking receipts
[05:22:45] <NCommander> bryan, your comment on adverising really struck home w/ me
[05:23:03] <NCommander> I was going to put it in the subscription follow up, but I addressed it as a wider point, so I nixed it
[05:24:06] <mrcoolbp> matt_: do you want to send me over a quick-and-dirty transfer template for Frogblast to transfer the logo to us?
[05:24:25] <NCommander> Ok, got all the expenses through March tabulated and accounted properly
[05:24:35] <matt_> mrcoolbp, let me see what i can do..
[05:24:35] <mrcoolbp> matt_: or is a little blurb okay?
[05:24:50] <NCommander> At the end of March, due the Lnode refund, I was $287 USD in the hole
[05:24:56] <matt_> mrcoolbp, remember the one i sent you a long time ago for domain names?
[05:25:03] <mrcoolbp> yeah, like that
[05:25:14] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I could just modify that one
[05:25:17] <matt_> mrcoolbp, let me see if i can dig that up and modify it. stand by.
[05:25:22] <mrcoolbp> cool, thank you!
[05:27:49] <NCommander> I love GNUcash's autocomplete feature
[05:28:00] <NCommander> If I put the same expense line in, it auto-debts the right account with the previos feature
[05:28:03] * NCommander is burning through this
[05:28:29] <NCommander> Almost done tabulating April
[05:30:10] <NCommander> Ok, April is tabulated
[05:30:46] <matt_> mrcoolbp, is it just the one logo currently on the main page or multiple logos (like the one on the wiki too, etc.)?
[05:31:55] <mrcoolbp> matt_ they are all the same file *I believe* but it's used in multiple locations
[05:32:44] <matt_> wow! the candidate just posted a new giant list of answers to some of the more recent questions =)
[05:32:45] <matt_> http://soylentnews.org
[05:32:57] <NCommander> Huh
[05:33:32] <NCommander> Honestly, I thought our expenses were *much* higher than this
[05:33:34] <matt_> mrcoolbp, ok. working on it.
[05:34:26] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I have half a mind to bump that story one more time and include links to his answers....
[05:34:52] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: let us know where we stand
[05:35:05] <mrcoolbp> the "Treasurer" would like to know = )
[05:35:16] <mrcoolbp> (he's kinda a dick)
[05:36:12] <matt_> mrcoolbp, i don't know if that's really necessary. i think it may be a bit much.
[05:36:36] <mrcoolbp> matt_: that sounds reasonable
[05:36:41] <mrcoolbp> we've messed with it enough
[05:36:57] <matt_> mrcoolbp, although, now that he has answered so many questions, it makes me really want to forward a copy of the questions that he did answer to his opponents...
[05:37:17] <mrcoolbp> NCommander ^
[05:37:18] <matt_> mrcoolbp, now if they actually then answered themselves, that would probably be worth a serious bump! = )
[05:37:29] <mrcoolbp> there ya go
[05:37:45] <matt_> next thing you know, we'll be hosting the presidential debates.
[05:38:20] <mrcoolbp> matt_ he's pretty funny: "but if you were successful at kicking him out of office, do you really want Joe Biden to be President?
[05:38:30] <matt_> hah!
[05:38:31] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: you mean as a separate story?
[05:39:35] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard, so exactly what I said, just not bump it in the queue?
[05:39:56] <mrcoolbp> .voice TheMightyBuzzard
[05:39:56] -!- mode/#staff [+v TheMightyBuzzard] by juggler
[05:40:43] <mrcoolbp> shit
[05:40:47] * mrcoolbp has to get up in 6 hours
[05:40:48] <NCommander> matt_, that nearly crashed reddit, I'd be afraid to know what it would do to our backend
[05:40:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> same here
[05:40:58] <NCommander> (when Obama did an AMA)
[05:41:31] <juggs> NCommander, when you subtract the coke and strippers from your receipts the expenses always come in less that you expect. That's what mileage is for.
[05:42:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, right but he did more an AMABIGAWIWAIWBRTTQ(ask me anything but i'm gonna answer what i want and it won't be related to the question)
[05:42:31] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: maybe we should retire for bed soon
[05:43:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, probably. i just stopped in before doing that and saw activity in #staff.
[05:44:16] <mrcoolbp> matt_ any luck on that transfer declaration?
[05:44:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> speaking of, better you lot than me on the business end of things. tis exceedingly glad i am to be nothing but a code monkey.
[05:44:28] * mrcoolbp is going to have one celabratory drink before bed
[05:44:55] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: can we at least officially promote you to "staff" ?
[05:45:20] <matt_> mrcoolbp, working on it, but i keep getting distracted by bright red names on IRC :)
[05:45:24] * mrcoolbp is hoping he can dump all his other less-businessy jobs on TheMightyBuzzard = )
[05:45:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya sure. just don't go giving me any passwords or links until the AM when i'm sober.
[05:45:32] <mrcoolbp> matt_ no idea what you mean = )
[05:45:41] <matt_> aaaaah!
[05:45:48] <mrcoolbp> haha
[05:46:17] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I'm promoting TheMightyBuzzard to CodeMonkey Private First Class
[05:46:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> oooh, a stripe AND a rocker
[05:46:44] <NCommander> Nice
[05:46:51] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, going to bed now?
[05:47:02] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, how goes setting up of the paypaling?
[05:47:03] <mrcoolbp> nah, I have a few more minutes
[05:47:19] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: it's all good to go, but we do need a bank account
[05:47:24] <NCommander> Ok, expenses through June are tabulated
[05:47:44] <matt_> mrcoolbp, email.
[05:47:46] * juggs donates an iron ass super cobra to TheMightyBuzzard.
[05:48:10] <matt_> mrcoolbp, i should hopefully be able to open the bank account tomorrow afternoon.
[05:48:31] <mrcoolbp> matt_ nod on both accounts (no pun intended)
[05:49:23] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I'll mention the "printing and signing and scanning" thing but even if he just gives us an email to that effect it would be a good start eh?
[05:50:13] <matt_> an email is better than nothing, but it should really have a signature.
[05:50:40] <matt_> and real name, please. it can't say: "I, FrogBlast, do hereby..."
[05:50:43] <matt_> =)
[05:50:57] <NCommander> wooo
[05:50:58] <NCommander> Done
[05:51:07] <NCommander> I still have to get the kimsurfi account in there
[05:51:11] <NCommander> But all the linode ones are in
[05:51:21] <NCommander> And I'm owed a grand total of $781.00 USD as of July 1st
[05:51:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, you're doing my taxes next year. That was fast.
[05:51:42] <NCommander> (that number going to go up a bit more, but not by much)
[05:52:29] * NCommander exhales
[05:52:45] <mrcoolbp> matt_ got it
[05:53:00] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: nice work
[05:53:20] <NCommander> matt_, what was your cost for incorporation
[05:53:21] <mrcoolbp> holy crap-goblins we were productive this week
[05:53:30] <bryan> you should probably consolidate a few boxes and downgrade others (like the dev/test instance) to the lower priced $10 plan
[05:53:33] <bryan> $300 per month on hosting is a bit high for the current size
[05:53:51] <matt_> NCommander, $384
[05:54:02] <NCommander> bryan, most of them are on the small one.
[05:54:27] <NCommander> bryan, we have hot failover forproduction, which is why we have four 4096s so we can offline servers for upgrades
[05:54:29] <NCommander> matt_, logged
[05:55:02] <matt_> got the $2k in there too? :)
[05:55:10] <mrcoolbp> heh
[05:55:25] <NCommander> matt_, Equity:Matt Angel: 2,384
[05:55:41] * NCommander decided putting us in as lines of credit kinda made the most sense
[05:56:05] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: you might have to hold my hand through a few of these Treasurer duties
[05:56:36] <matt_> NCommander, correct. in QB, that would go in as a "long-term liability"
[05:56:37] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, not a problem, when you look at the GNUcash file, it should make sense
[05:56:37] * mrcoolbp looks up double-entry accounting
[05:56:44] <NCommander> Quickbooks basically works the same way
[05:57:08] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: thanks, don't worry, I learn fast.
[05:57:14] <NCommander> Ah
[05:57:15] <NCommander> fuck
[05:57:18] <mrcoolbp> uh oh
[05:57:22] <NCommander> My invoices for Kimsurfi are in Euro
[05:57:24] <NCommander> Shit
[05:57:27] <mrcoolbp> ROFL
[05:57:28] <bryan> still think it's a bit high per month at the current size of the site
[05:57:29] <NCommander> I didn't save the exchange rates
[05:57:30] <bryan> linode now supports hourly billing, so if you want failover for upgrades you can spin up a new instance for an hour, then spin it down and only get charged a few cents instead of for the whole month, every month
[05:57:46] <mrcoolbp> NCommander ^
[05:57:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> nifty
[05:57:58] <NCommander> bryan, that requires converting our account, which would cause us to invalidate our discounts for prepaid linodes
[05:58:21] <mrcoolbp> crappy
[05:58:28] <NCommander> fuck it
[05:58:36] * NCommander goes to the credit card bill to work out how much he was charged
[05:58:43] <mrcoolbp> there ya go.
[05:58:49] <bryan> id just rather see $300 a month going to one of you guys instead of yet another hosting providers pockets
[05:59:01] <NCommander> bryan, its on the todo
[05:59:02] <NCommander> Its just
[05:59:04] <NCommander> Bleh
[05:59:13] <NCommander> bryan, even with downsizing, we can only cut it by so much
[05:59:47] <mrcoolbp> bryan the point has been made, I'm glad you brought it up, but were not convinced we could actually save a whole lot and still have the "room to grow" that we want
[05:59:52] <NCommander> bryan, I thought pipedot used six machines
[06:00:12] <mrcoolbp> bryan: in the beginning we had a lot of down-time, lately we have been rock-solid
[06:00:27] <NCommander> Thats because we made varnish suck less
[06:00:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> bills look to be pretty danged low anyway. if we can score the income i don't see a reason not to keep them handy.
[06:01:00] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: Is there actually a way we could save some $$ on hosting? If so how much?
[06:01:07] <mrcoolbp> and at what "cost" ?
[06:01:20] <NCommander> Well, if we could get the system to autodeploy frontend nodes (not impossible) we could nuke fluorine
[06:01:23] <NCommander> Thats $40 a month
[06:01:30] <NCommander> I rather not try and do that with the database
[06:01:39] <NCommander> THough e're not replicating it at the moment
[06:01:48] <NCommander> I fucked helium real wel a few weeks back so I need to rebuild that node
[06:02:15] <bryan> pipedot has a load balancer and two web instances (8 core each); for a total of $60 month - granted im cheating a bit as the database is on another instance that ive had since linode launched 10 years ago (so i dont really count that one)
[06:02:27] <NCommander> Gah
[06:02:30] <NCommander> I travel too much
[06:02:44] * NCommander was trying to figure out why he had charges in Hong Kong and Macau before remembering I went there this year
[06:03:09] <NCommander> The fuck
[06:03:21] <NCommander> I thought my paypal account was linked to my credit card
[06:03:24] <NCommander> ...
[06:03:27] <NCommander> What IS it linked to
[06:03:59] <NCommander> Oh good, my job paid my bonus
[06:04:17] * NCommander just noticed that deposit while debugging his banking
[06:04:47] <NCommander> Ok
[06:04:52] <NCommander> So its not linked to my primary account
[06:04:53] <NCommander> ...
[06:05:47] * NCommander grumbles more
[06:05:49] <mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_ I need to get some rest, anything else for this evening?
[06:06:01] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I think we're covered
[06:06:03] <matt_> mrcoolbp, i'm about to collapse from exhaustion
[06:06:12] <NCommander> So it looks like SoylentNews PBC is about 3.2k USD in the hole
[06:06:15] <NCommander> That's not horrible
[06:06:29] <matt_> not bad at all
[06:06:39] * NCommander guesses real expenses are actually about $2k, but since we don't have accurate counts of Jon's part of the expenses, we'll never know
[06:06:58] <matt_> btw, did you ever get your mp3 player :)
[06:07:06] <NCommander> matt_, I did actually
[06:07:16] <matt_> and the language tapes? =)
[06:07:21] <mrcoolbp> ROFL, I keep forgetting to send him my address to get my video-recording key-fob!!
[06:07:40] <matt_> is that what you were promised? :D
[06:07:46] <juggs> NCommander, question if I may. Are you primarily a sysadmin by trade?
[06:07:53] <NCommander> juggs, I'm a software engineer
[06:07:57] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: can I reccomend you add yourself here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[06:08:02] * NCommander is employed by a company that works in Linux
[06:08:12] <NCommander> oh
[06:08:12] <NCommander> crap
[06:08:22] * mrcoolbp hides
[06:08:23] * NCommander just found an unrelated expense snafu that is about to bite him
[06:08:25] <bryan> is the name of the PBC "LibreNews Foundation"?
[06:08:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, sure sure.
[06:08:35] <NCommander> bryan, no, "SoylentNews PBC"
[06:08:48] <NCommander> bryan, LibreNews Foundation is reserved as-of-yet theorically parent NFP
[06:09:32] <NCommander> Ugh
[06:09:39] <NCommander> Crap, paypal was pointing at the wrong bank account
[06:09:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... may have to do this tomorrow when i can read captchas
[06:09:47] * NCommander is about to have a very big payment bounce
[06:09:48] <NCommander> Ugh
[06:09:51] <NCommander> That's going to be ugly
[06:10:38] <NCommander> I'll have to file aticket and see if I can get them to change where its going to be charged or I'm going to be in a world of pain
[06:10:38] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: purchase for a swedish-made penis-enlarger? Yeah, those are expensice
[06:10:58] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, ticket to Berlin, vacation w/ my mom
[06:11:06] <mrcoolbp> I was close
[06:11:07] <NCommander> Flights from Alaska are *expensive*
[06:11:18] <NCommander> also, 26 hours of flying each way, complete with 6 hour layovers
[06:11:26] <mrcoolbp> good lord man
[06:11:28] * NCommander is going to be in flying zombie mode :-)
[06:11:36] <mrcoolbp> I hope there's wifi
[06:11:36] <NCommander> Its not the worst I've ever done
[06:11:44] <NCommander> I managed to break United's reservation system
[06:11:48] <mrcoolbp> ROFL
[06:11:50] * NCommander once managed to book the following iterinary
[06:11:56] <NCommander> PDX-SFO-LAX-PSP-SFO-JFK
[06:12:06] <NCommander> (yes, I managed to go through the same airport twice)
[06:12:27] <mrcoolbp> WTF?
[06:12:36] <NCommander> I was mileage running for 1k status
[06:12:42] <mrcoolbp> that's a bit odd
[06:12:46] <NCommander> But that iterinary took the cake
[06:12:56] <NCommander> Gets better
[06:12:56] <NCommander> I misconnected due to weather at PSP
[06:13:06] <NCommander> So, I got rerouted
[06:13:16] <NCommander> I went PDX-SFO-LAX-PSP-CLT-PHX-PHL-LGA
[06:13:26] <mrcoolbp> holy FSM batman
[06:13:36] <NCommander> er, PSP-PHX-CLT-LGA
[06:13:46] <NCommander> *PSP-PHX-CLT-PHL-LGA
[06:14:06] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I ended up getting $400 dollars in bump vouchers for a 200 dollar flight
[06:14:16] <NCommander> And about 20k-ish in points, which was another free flight
[06:14:16] <NCommander> As I said, I broke United
[06:14:25] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: excellent work
[06:14:37] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, there was someone who did better
[06:14:48] <NCommander> On flyertalk, there was a glitch in a fair routing rules from JFK-ATL
[06:14:57] <NCommander> Someone managed to book JFK-LIM-ATL as a connection
[06:15:02] <NCommander> (thats Lima, Peru)
[06:15:18] <NCommander> Scheduled it as a layerover, and then flew back the same return
[06:15:21] * juggs rides the slide
[06:15:39] <NCommander> I'm one of those problem children at the airlines
[06:15:43] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: clearly
[06:15:49] <NCommander> I can find and redeem frequent flier miles on demand
[06:15:56] <mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_ I'm going to head to bed
[06:16:06] <NCommander> Take advantage of every arcane routing rule
[06:16:26] <NCommander> And occassionally help front line agents deal with bugs
[06:16:32] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: please pester me about getting you setup on our staff communication systems
[06:16:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, will do
[06:17:03] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[06:17:06] <NCommander> Oh good
[06:17:16] <NCommander> I've got money in the wells fargo account now
[06:17:16] * NCommander will not be dealing with a bounced payment
[06:17:38] <matt_> mrcoolbp, ok, goodnight!
[06:17:51] <mrcoolbp> g'night bryan, juggs, chromas, Azrael, rand, TheMightyBuzzard, NCommander, matt_ etc.!!
[06:17:56] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, night
[06:17:56] <NCommander> I think our books are good
[06:17:56] <NCommander> yay
[06:18:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> nite
[06:18:06] <NCommander> long list
[06:22:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know, sleep sounds good.
[06:22:32] * TheMightyBuzzard waves
[06:22:45] * matt_ concurs
[06:22:57] <matt_> all those in favor of going to sleep:
[06:23:05] <bryan> aye
[06:23:09] <matt_> aye!
[06:23:31] <matt_> motion passes and matt_ passes out!
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[10:32:46] <cosurgi> NCommander: I'm sorry that I missed this meeting, I really needed to sleep. I only want to say that I am against paypal because it will freeze an account exactly when you decide to work fulltime on our site and drop your job. Better to setup a litecoin/bitcoin wallet.
[10:40:12] <cosurgi> NCommander: maybe I can find someone for you that could know something about legal problems & non-profit org involving cryptocoins in US
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[12:39:43] <bryan> geez, this article: http://soylentnews.org has 1320 comments (99% of which are viagra spam)
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[13:29:25] <cosurgi> ??? whoa
[13:30:18] <cosurgi> mrcool|work: 12:39 <+bryan> geez, this article: http://soylentnews.org has 1320 comments (99% of which are viagra spam)
[13:37:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> nice, we're famous enough to warrant spam now
[13:38:24] <mrcool|work> cosurgi: yeah, we saw that, I think we banned that IP
[13:49:19] <NCommander> well
[13:49:22] <NCommander> On the plus side
[13:49:31] <NCommander> We know the site doesn't explode when we hit 4 digit comments
[13:49:36] <NCommander> I do think a mass delete probably in order
[13:50:53] <mrcool|work> NCommander: sure seems like a good exception to the "don't delete comments" policy
[13:51:19] <NCommander> mrcool|work, I think we stated we would delete spam
[13:51:25] <NCommander> Or more specifically, that wasn't protected
[13:51:43] <NCommander> Probably need to keep an eye on the older articles to see if they're getting spamming to hell
[13:51:59] <NCommander> mrcool|work, I banned a new spammer IP
[13:52:01] <NCommander> yay
[13:53:36] <NCommander> !todo mass delete spam crap
[13:53:38] <NCommander> !todo
[13:53:48] <NCommander> !todo-done 3
[13:53:53] <NCommander> !todo-done 6
[13:53:55] <NCommander> !todo-done 7
[13:54:01] <NCommander> !todo
[13:54:11] <NCommander> !todo-done 5
[13:54:19] <NCommander> !todo-done 3
[13:54:21] <NCommander> !todo
[13:54:36] <NCommander> !todo-done 4
[13:54:39] <NCommander> Not doing that
[13:55:01] <NCommander> !todo mass delete spam crap from posts (http://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/02/25/110221)
[13:58:18] <mrcool|work> .op
[13:58:18] -!- mode/#staff [+o mrcool|work] by juggler
[14:03:24] <cosurgi> NCommander: actually you can accept cryptocoin donations without ever touching cryptos. You can have them automatically converted to USD and deposited to the bank accout, bypassing paypal completely and only touching USD. Check https://www.gocoin.com https://coinbase.com http://www.coindesk.com http://www.coindesk.com http://www.coindesk.com
[14:04:50] <cosurgi> this way you won't need to report anywhere in legal stuff that cryptocoins are handled. Because what arrives to you is only USD.
[14:07:18] <cosurgi> alright I forgot about https://bitpay.com they managed to transfer 1e6 USD in one transaction http://www.coindesk.com
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[14:25:22] <mrcool|work> NCommander: would the above make it possible for us to accept bitcoin in the short-term?
[14:26:04] <Bytram> hi all!
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[14:26:27] <mrcool|work> crap, I missed the last line...
[14:27:23] <Bytram> just saw the last msg; As I understand it, there was a recent statement from (some dept in the us govt) that BitCoin was to be treated as an asset much like stocks as opposed to a currency; so there'd be potential issues with capital gains taxes.
[14:28:39] <mrcool|work> Bytram: exactly the problem, I missed the lin before my last, but cosurgi mentioned there were services that would convert it to USD before we touch it, which would seem to negate that issue right?
[14:28:46] <mrcool|work> s/lin/line/
[14:28:51] <cosurgi> yes, exactly.
[14:29:25] <mrcool|work> cosurgi: did NC respond to my last inquiry?
[14:29:31] <cosurgi> if we don't own any bitcoins and receive only USD that are converted for you, then there are not capital gains taxes, because there's nothing to tax.
[14:29:45] <Bytram> cosurgi: nod nod
[14:30:00] <Bytram> question is, how much of a cut do they take to perform that service?
[14:30:10] <mrcool|work> Bytram: an excellent question of course
[14:30:11] <cosurgi> mrcool|work: I don't see your inquiry, how long ago did you write it?
[14:30:28] <mrcool|work> cosurgi: 12 lines up
[14:30:31] <Bytram> and what about anonymity/tracking - they'll certainly be recording *who* sent how much to *whom*.
[14:30:46] <mrcool|work> I asked him if that would allow us accept bitcoin in the short-term
[14:30:50] <cosurgi> Bytram: I'm sure that not much, because they want wider bitcoin adoption.
[14:32:06] <cosurgi> mrcool|work: ah I see. No, he seems to be offline.
[14:32:32] <cosurgi> or afk
[14:33:10] <mrcool|work> cosurgi: it's very early AK time for him, on top of his crazy schedule
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[14:56:31] <cosurgi> ok
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[15:01:06] <mrcool|work> cosurgi: I'll pester NCommander about the bitcoin thing later, thanks
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[16:32:48] <mrcool|work> mechanicjay: g'mornin
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[20:05:28] <janrinok> paulej72: ping
[20:08:15] <janrinok> Do any members of Sys team want to record the details of the spam in the submissions list before I delete them?
[20:08:48] <janrinok> er, delete the spam, not the members of the sys team :)
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