#staff | Logs for 2014-05-29
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[15:41:27] <NCommander> YEash
[15:41:30] <NCommander> Its deader than dead here
[15:42:26] <paulej72> NCommander: agreed
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[16:42:23] <mattie_p> dead dead dead
[16:42:58] <LaminatorX> Huh?
[16:45:39] <paulej72> LaminatorX: this room is dead dead dead
[16:49:32] <LaminatorX> I would hope that no news is good news, at least in here.
[16:51:58] <paulej72> [09:51am] Bytram: NCommander: BTW, any thoughts on my question about adding "Article IX - Definitions" to the bylaws? that way we can define terms in one place and stay consistent.
[16:51:59] <paulej72> [09:51am] Bytram: I'm open to some other way to do it, but I really see a need for it.
[16:52:00] <paulej72> [09:51am] NCommander: Bytram, *mull*
[16:52:02] <paulej72> [09:51am] NCommander: Bytram, It should be Article III, right after name and purpose
[16:52:03] <paulej72> [09:52am] • NCommander is trying to prevent these from descending into legal gunk
[16:52:05] <paulej72> [09:52am] Bytram: NCommander: Fine by me, but that means the article numbering will change. is that all right?
[16:52:06] <paulej72> [09:52am] NCommander: Yeah
[16:52:08] <paulej72> [09:52am] NCommander: I've already renumbered them like four times
[16:52:09] <paulej72> [09:54am] Bytram: okay, oh! no problem then. I'll put in some stubs for terms for now and a general intro paragraph. If I can figure out how to add a new Article... I think I know... brb
[16:52:11] <paulej72> [09:54am] paulej72: Just make a note that the board can change the definitions by a vote or admendment which ever you think is more appropriate
[16:52:12] <paulej72> [09:54am] Bytram: paulej72: excellent point!@
[16:52:14] <paulej72> [09:54am] NCommander: paulej72, has to be by amendment if its in the bylaw
[16:52:15] <paulej72> [09:55am] Bytram: NCommander: noted.
[16:52:17] <paulej72> [09:59am] NCommander: I'm not sure I'm super happy with a specific Defintion section
[16:52:18] <paulej72> [10:00am] Bytram: yeah, but having the same term defined variously throughout the doc, or left undefined?
[16:52:20] <paulej72> [10:04am] paulej72: or worse defined differently in different sections
[16:52:21] <paulej72> [10:07am] Bytram: paulej72: we already HAVE that!
[16:52:23] <paulej72> [10:20am] Bytram: NCommander: paulej72: some definitions added; please take a look.
[16:52:24] <paulej72> [10:20am] Bytram: afk, brb
[16:52:26] <paulej72> [10:21am] mattie_p: back
[16:52:27] <paulej72> [10:24am] paulej72: Bytram: not all days say business days. and was not quorum 2/3 of memembers in the previous version?
[16:52:29] <paulej72> [10:25am] Bytram: back
[16:52:30] <paulej72> [10:26am] Bytram: paulej72: Prior discussion w/ NCommander agreed to consistify to 10 business dys. Quorum: noted. I'll fix.
[16:52:32] <paulej72> [10:26am] paulej72: NCommander: the bylaws do not state who has voting privs on the board, unless I missed it
[16:52:33] <paulej72> [10:27am] mattie_p: also, near as I can tell, the actual methods to become a member are not described. Nor the election/selection of board members
[16:52:35] <paulej72> [10:27am] mrcoolbp: holy backlog batman
[16:52:36] <paulej72> [10:28am] paulej72: nor the number of board members
[16:52:38] <paulej72> [10:28am] mattie_p: Amendments should probably be approved by a 2/3 majority (or more), in my opinion, not a simple majority
[16:52:39] <paulej72> [10:28am] paulej72: agreee ^
[16:52:41] <paulej72> [10:28am] Bytram: mattie_p: agree.
[16:52:42] <paulej72> [10:29am] Bytram: question - "Board Member" ==? "Officer" (Pres, VP, treas, and sect)?
[16:52:44] <paulej72> [10:30am] mattie_p: officers are selected from among the board, I believe?
[16:52:45] <paulej72> [10:31am] mattie_p: actually, selected by the board, nothing states they must be board members
[16:52:47] <paulej72> [10:31am] paulej72: Term of officers on board needs to be from the following meeting until the new officer takes over. Right now there is a disconnect between the time of election unitl the next board meeting where noone will be an officer
[16:52:48] <paulej72> [10:32am] Bytram: paulej72: good point.
[16:52:50] <paulej72> [10:33am] mattie_p: the trust fund thing seems weird as well. " requests shall be approved unless there is a legal, pressing, or overwhelming reason(s) for such a request to be denied."
[16:52:51] <paulej72> [10:33am] mattie_p: who decides if it is a legal, pressing, or overwhelming reason to deny?
[16:52:53] <paulej72> [10:33am] mattie_p: simple majority? 2/3 majority required to deny?
[16:52:54] <paulej72> [10:36am] paulej72: Also I have an issue with the foundation keeping any funds of a site that disolved by the foundation. I can see if a site disolves it self that it is no longer fucnioning we should keep the funds, but the other way is open to abuse.
[16:52:56] <paulej72> [10:37am] mattie_p: Employment: member sites must have funds available to cover. Does that mean they must have sufficient income to cover, or enough cash on hand to cover 1 year, 6 months, etc?
[16:52:57] <paulej72> [10:37am] paulej72: Also what happens if a site wants to not be a member site anymore. Do we return funds to them minus some overhead?
[16:52:59] <paulej72> [10:38am] mattie_p: Can a member site do anything other than voluntarily dissolve? What if it wants to sell out to a for-profit company, can it do that?
[16:53:00] <paulej72> [10:39am] mattie_p: And does the foundation reap some of the profit?
[16:53:02] <paulej72> [10:40am] mattie_p: is the representation from the member sites to the board a voting or non-voting member?
[16:53:03] <paulej72> [10:40am] mattie_p: (I'd say no)
[16:53:04] <mrcoolbp> .op
[16:53:04] -!- mode/#staff [+o mrcoolbp] by juggler
[16:53:05] <paulej72> [10:41am] mattie_p: NCommander: I know we're raising a lot of issues right now, please don't take it as an attack. This is a great "foundation" if you will, I'm trying to build upon it, and I'm sure everyone else is too
[16:53:06] <paulej72> [10:42am] paulej72: plus we want all of the silly mistakes fixed before you take to a laywer
[16:53:08] <paulej72> [10:45am] mattie_p: any member site charter needs to be approved by the board, also need to ensure the board approves proposed changes to member site charter. If changes cannot be reconciled, what then?
[16:53:09] <paulej72> [10:47am] paulej72: the member site has the option to leave (and thus needs to be covered as to what happens to their funds)
[16:53:11] <paulej72> [10:47am] Bytram: paulej72: mattie_p: I'm running a little behind on your *excellent* comments. Could you please include them in the doc as [[[question: what about blah blah blah]]]" so they get adressed?
[16:53:12] <paulej72> [10:48am] mattie_p: Bytram, I'll make sure I do that. On the discussion page, you think? or main page?
[16:53:14] <paulej72> [10:48am] paulej72: I think the only way the board should be able to disolve a member site, is if they have no activilty for some time and can not be reached, or if there is a leagal issue ie the member site was hosting CP knowingly.
[16:53:15] <paulej72> [10:48am] Bytram: good question! I'd say put it in-line on the main page; harder to miss that way!
[16:53:17] <paulej72> [10:49am] mattie_p: ok, I'll be sure to leave comments there.
[16:53:18] <paulej72> [10:50am] mattie_p: should we move this discussion to #staff? no reason for it here, really. Anyway, gotta run for a while
[16:53:20] <paulej72> [10:51am] Bytram: mattie_p: ^^ both suggestions are excellent. And, of course, I need to leave for a while, too.
[16:53:21] <paulej72> .op
[16:53:21] -!- mode/#staff [+o paulej72] by juggler
[16:54:04] <paulej72> now we have a record of this conversation in the logs
[16:55:27] <Bytram> paulej72: thanks for that!!
[16:55:59] <Bytram> paulej72: Please put your questions/comments in-line in the docuemnt as: [[[question: what about blah blah blah]]]"
[16:56:08] <Bytram> gtg afk
[16:56:17] Bytram is now known as Bytram|afk
[16:56:41] <paulej72> Bytram: i’ll try to update the wiki with my questions. See you later
[16:57:17] <Bytram|afk> paulej72: thank-you!!!
[16:59:06] <Bytram|afk> BTW, for those of you just now joining in, we were discussing the Incorporation/Bylaws at: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[16:59:23] <Bytram|afk> gtg afk
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[17:03:39] <mattie_p> I'll be back in a few to continue the discussion
[17:07:14] * NCommander is exhausted
[17:07:19] <NCommander> But all good points around
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[17:23:41] <janrinok> just back-reading now
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[17:47:19] * NCommander feels tired as hell
[17:47:38] <NCommander> mattie_p, paulej72 appears we have some stuff to work out so I'll save the lawyering for another day
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[19:36:54] * NCommander feels tired as ****
[19:40:34] <paulej72> go ahead NCommander you can say it, no need for self-censorship
[19:40:43] <paulej72> :P
[19:42:05] <Woods> I think that means he would rate his tiredness four stars.
[19:44:28] <NCommander> Out of a possible five :-)
[19:44:41] * NCommander is debating firing an email to the lawyer or not
[19:45:31] <NCommander> Ah crud, I got stuff I need to be here for on Monday
[19:45:33] <NCommander> argh
[19:46:14] <paulej72> NCommander: I would suggest mail it instead of firing, lawyers are a bit jumpy when you fire something their way
[19:46:43] * NCommander rolls eyes at paulej72
[19:46:48] <NCommander> I think this weekend I'm car shopping
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[20:55:15] <paulej72> OK I think I have the bylaws updated with all of the issues brought up today. I did not fix them I just put in the issues where appropriate.
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[21:16:04] <mattie_p> thanks, paulej72!
[21:16:14] <mattie_p> we ought to double your salary, mate
[21:17:01] <paulej72> mattie_p: yea, now i can afford that roundtuit i have had my eye on
[21:18:36] <paulej72> looks like I need to drag myself out the the data center later today or tomorrow. I have a computational server with a bad hd.
[21:20:57] <paulej72> well maby not. Looks like it rebooted ok.
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[22:24:07] <Bytram> Landon: Ping?
[22:24:52] <Bytram> Landon: Noticed that the logging for #wiki seems to have ended on April 3, according to: http://logs.sylnt.us
[22:27:29] <Bytram> Interesting comment on the "Wikia and Sony" article, pertaining to our [non]ability to retroactively take ownership of content: http://soylentnews.org
[22:27:46] <Bytram> NCommander: ^^^===
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[22:53:05] <NCommander> Bytram, commenting
[22:53:51] <Bytram> NCommander: great! btw, do you have any idea why #wiki no longer logs? Last update was 2014-04-03 on: http://logs.sylnt.us
[22:54:09] <NCommander> Not a clue
[22:54:32] <Bytram> hmmm, makes two of us. lemme check who our IRC masters are...
[22:54:57] <Bytram> pasting...
[22:55:06] <Bytram> * - # * xlefay - Team leader #
[22:55:07] <Bytram> * - # * Landon - Member #
[22:55:07] <Bytram> * - # * MrBluze - Member #
[22:55:07] <Bytram> * - # * Kobach - Member #
[22:55:07] <Bytram> * - # * FunPika - Member #
[22:55:16] <Bytram> haven't seen xlefay in a long, long time.
[22:55:28] <Bytram> I put out a ping to landon and haven't seen anything yet.
[22:55:39] <Bytram> FunPika: Ping??
[22:55:41] <NCommander> Bytram, http://soylentnews.org
[22:55:48] <Bytram> NCommander: on my way
[22:58:14] <Bytram> NCommander++ nicely done. thanks for the prompt feedback!
[22:59:21] <mattie_p> mod points spent to ^^ it
[22:59:46] <Bytram> mattie_p++ I'll share what I've got. =)
[23:00:09] <Bytram> NCommander: when is the site upgrade slated for?
[23:00:41] <mattie_p> its at the worst possible time, Bytram, same as always :)
[23:00:50] <Bytram> mattie_p: ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!
[23:01:06] <Bytram> mattie_p: wanna take over the world in the meantime?
[23:01:19] <mattie_p> That's when upgrades/patches are always scheduled for, except when they are scheduled on your week off
[23:01:44] <Bytram> mattie_p: yuppers. voice of experience there, I'm sure!
[23:02:08] <mattie_p> maybe just a little, Bytram
[23:02:16] <Bytram> did you know that murphy (of murphy's law) was an optimist?
[23:02:42] * Bytram thinks that was actually "O'toole's commentary on Murphy's Law"
[23:02:46] <mattie_p> Didn't know that at all
[23:03:06] <Bytram> nah, I was j/k
[23:03:34] <Bytram> murphy was just some bloke who made an observation that got reworded and immortalized.
[23:03:44] <mattie_p> Also, please ensure we schedule the updade window for the shortest time possible. Downtime always exceeds the window by at least a factor of 2, so if you schedule it for 15 minutes then it should only take 30
[23:04:29] <Bytram> sounds optimistic.
[23:05:10] <mattie_p> I'm just another Murphy then :)
[23:05:55] <FunPika> Bytram: ?
[23:06:04] <Bytram> oh hi!
[23:06:19] <Bytram> FunPika: I noticed that logging of #wiki stopped a few weeks ago.
[23:06:31] <Bytram> FunPika: was wondering how to get it restarted.
[23:07:03] <Bytram> crutchy suggested I .op in the channel and /invite loggie but I don't have the perms to do it. how bout you?
[23:08:00] <mattie_p> All done for ya
[23:08:47] <Bytram> mattie_p: thanks! You have quite an assortment of superpowers!
[23:09:08] <Bytram> mattie_p: why couldn't I .op in #wiki?
[23:10:25] <FunPika> Pretty sure that only IRC or wiki staff can op in there.
[23:11:01] <FunPika> weird...it looks like quite a few channels are no longer being logged
[23:11:30] <mattie_p> Bytram: I dunno. I have powers in almost every channel, but xlefay set the perms for each channel uniquely based on cloak
[23:11:55] <Bytram> hmmm? I now IRC bounced a few times a while ago (week? two weeks?) didn't realize #wiki had been out for so long.
[23:11:59] <Bytram> s/now/know/
[23:12:16] <mattie_p> sedbot isn't in this channel, tho :)
[23:12:49] <Bytram> can we invite him/her/it ?
[23:12:56] <Bytram> .op
[23:12:56] -!- mode/#staff [+o Bytram] by juggler
[23:13:11] <Bytram> .deop
[23:13:11] -!- mode/#staff [-o Bytram] by juggler
[23:13:28] <Bytram> s/can we/we can/
[23:13:40] <Bytram> but it doesn't seem to work.
[23:14:07] <Bytram> The more I learn, the more I learn that I have more to learn!
[23:14:13] <mattie_p> Sedbot may not be autojoin
[23:23:48] <FunPika> Sedbot is only in #Soylent and #test
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[23:23:59] <FunPika> .op
[23:23:59] -!- mode/#staff [+o FunPika] by juggler
[23:24:55] <FunPika> ...and unlike Loggie, SedBot won't respond to /invite
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