#staff | Logs for 2014-03-29
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[00:01:54] <NCommander> God cleaning this up is going to be a bitch and a half
[00:07:53] -!- FunPika has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[00:14:49] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]
[00:15:00] <NCommander> FoobarBazbot, http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[00:15:01] <NCommander> Ugh
[00:15:02] <NCommander> fuck me
[00:15:08] <NCommander> That's a lot to write up and summarize
[00:15:13] <NCommander> And there are more cases I want to site
[00:15:15] <NCommander> *cite
[00:16:17] <n1> is this in preparation for incorporating the site?
[00:18:02] <NCommander> n1, yeah, I'm making a case for US incorporation
[00:18:08] <NCommander> No one responded to the call for international volunteers
[00:18:17] <n1> i didnt see the call
[00:18:19] <NCommander> But I want a good summary of freedom of press in the US
[00:18:34] <NCommander> n1, http://soylentnews.org
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[00:19:27] <n1> thanks, i'll catch up
[00:21:52] * NCommander realizes he cited the wrong case in that post
[00:24:43] <n1> it's a tricky issue and as much as i don't like it, the US is probably the best options
[00:24:45] <n1> -s
[00:25:21] <NCommander> n1, that's what this writeup is supposed to do
[00:25:28] <NCommander> Justify the United States as a good enough option
[00:27:24] <n1> i'd offer the UK but as things go, i'm not so sure it would be a good idea. Press freedom is on very shaky ground here.
[00:27:35] <NCommander> Bad idea
[00:27:39] <n1> yup
[00:27:46] * NCommander reserved the right to veto any incorportion, and your libel laws SUCK
[00:27:54] <n1> i agree
[00:28:32] <n1> I have another option but that offers little long term certainty and i'm not sure on the costs, and according to reports it would only be marginally better than the US.
[00:29:31] <n1> the UK also fails on having a "D-Notice" to gag the press
[00:34:16] <mrcoolbp> I have to run, see you tomorrow people
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[00:41:00] <NCommander> n1, we have NSLs, but theres a lot of case law about those
[00:42:53] <n1> from what ive seen the NSL's tend to be used to stop the press getting the story, rather than stopping the press from publishing
[00:46:59] <NCommander> n1, freedom to publish classified information is defined y New York Times v. United states
[00:47:49] <NCommander> n1, theres also a TON of case law w.r.t. the federal government can not prevent prior resistant unless it is absolutely clear w.r.t. to damage prevention
[00:48:49] <NCommander> n1, the two big ones http://en.wikipedia.org
[00:48:58] <NCommander> http://en.wikipedia.org
[00:51:59] <NCommander> n1, our libel laws are pretty well summarized by http://en.wikipedia.org
[00:52:34] <n1> sometimes the law works as it should
[00:53:12] <n1> if anything, the major advantage is these kind of things are best documented in US cases over anywhere else
[00:53:29] <n1> even if things may change, the cases that have gone before are well documented and stand the test of time
[00:55:11] <NCommander> Despite everything, the government still for the most part respects the law
[00:55:22] * NCommander is waiting for the FISC court to be tried in the Supreme Court
[00:55:32] <NCommander> Which will be the true test if our government is doomed or not
[00:56:18] <NCommander> We recovered from McCarthyism, which leaves me optimist
[00:56:58] <n1> the US has great potential for freedom and for progress
[00:57:10] <n1> i wish i could say the same about the UK
[01:05:53] <audioguy> The Uk, has ONE thing that I always thought might save it in a real pinch -the royal family
[01:08:10] <NCommander> audioguy, its pretty weak. At best the crown can deny a royal asset
[01:08:32] <NCommander> Right now, the breaker for paraliment is the EU ascension treaties and laws
[01:08:50] <NCommander> Which has lead to a referimenium on the UK leaving the European Union
[01:09:08] <n1> i never understood the motivation why the royal family would have to 'save' the UK
[01:09:23] <n1> and how they would decide it was the right time to do so
[01:09:28] <audioguy> But under thr right circumstances, The Royal Family fighting against a truly evil and hated government, with a charismatic young 'prince' ...could turn the tide. It has worked before there.
[01:10:13] <n1> the potential is there, in history and in law
[01:10:19] <n1> but the reality i dont think would ever come to pass
[01:10:26] <NCommander> n1, I am curious if the bill to leave the EU will survive the House of Lords
[01:11:07] <n1> the referendum is going to happen after the next general election
[01:11:13] <audioguy> Exactly. The thing about poitics is that the sociopaths rise to the top. hereditary rulers - sometimes you get a GOOD one.
[01:11:13] <n1> unless they find another reason to delay it
[01:11:42] <n1> and at this rate, the chances of the tories getting a clear win is pretty slim
[01:12:10] <n1> im not sure what labours promises on the matter are this week
[01:12:41] <n1> however if we end up with a Labour UKIP coalition, things could get interesting
[01:13:07] <NCommander> audioguy, in theory, the Senate was supposed to be our version of the house of lords, appointed by the state
[01:13:14] <NCommander> Instead, we got two house of commons
[01:13:15] <NCommander> >.<;
[01:13:27] <n1> i'd rather batshit crazy UKIP go all populist than we get the current situation
[01:13:39] <n1> where the LibDems have proved themselves to be a different side of the same coin
[01:13:49] <audioguy> That was killed by makinng it popular election, rather than from the states.
[01:13:51] * NCommander notes the United States has a couple of circuit breakers in place that will prevent a complete meltdown
[01:14:00] <NCommander> audioguy, thank you 16th amendment
[01:14:05] <audioguy> Supreme courst too.
[01:14:27] <NCommander> The canary is if an Article V motion ever successeds
[01:14:40] <NCommander> Which allows the states to bypass the federal government and amend the constitution
[01:14:53] <audioguy> But who knows now. They avoiding a lot of stuff... 'hard cases make bad law'
[01:15:08] <NCommander> audioguy, we need a repeat of FDR's court packing
[01:15:09] <NCommander> :-P
[01:15:22] * NCommander notes that FDR's battles with the Supreme Court are amazing
[01:15:44] <audioguy> Yeah, they really are. Today is tame in comparison.
[01:16:45] <audioguy> I'd like to see the NSA files on the current court. ;-)
[01:16:51] <NCommander> audioguy, its getting there
[01:16:54] <n1> it's all just a dog and pony show now, on both sides of the pond.
[01:17:00] <n1> at least thats all i ever see
[01:17:03] <NCommander> audioguy, two seperate appealate courts ended in different decisions
[01:17:15] <NCommander> Which is grounds for the Supreme Court to accept celebitori
[01:17:38] <audioguy> Yup. And this is how civilizations fall. The people get so fed up they will welcome an invader with open arms
[01:18:20] * NCommander notes the NSA decision in the supreme court will be our generations Pergsey vs. Furison (the court case that sparked the civil war) if ruled in favor of the NSA
[01:18:21] <audioguy> Yes, I have some hope in the court, not too much though.
[01:18:56] <audioguy> Plessey vs Fergison
[01:18:59] <NCommander> Thats it
[01:19:00] <NCommander> Thanks
[01:19:03] * NCommander is tired :-/
[01:19:04] <audioguy> :-)
[01:19:15] <n1> i don't think the uk would welcome an invader with open arms, judging on the feeling about the EU
[01:19:26] <n1> we don't mind tyranny as long as it's actioned by someone who was born in britain
[01:19:26] <NCommander> er, I'm thinking Dred Scott, not Plessey v. Fergison
[01:19:33] <audioguy> And think I misspelled Fergeson
[01:19:37] <NCommander> Plessey was Seperate But Equal doctrine
[01:19:54] <audioguy> Right, remember now.
[01:20:15] <NCommander> n1, as I see it, the canaries haven't died yet
[01:20:16] <audioguy> Been a while since civics class for me ;-)
[01:20:21] <NCommander> audioguy, no kidding
[01:21:08] * NCommander sees the Article V circuit breaker as our failsafe
[01:21:19] <n1> maybe not, but i'd rather not wait for the canary to die... it might be too late by then
[01:21:33] <audioguy> I am hponu Europe will 'liberate' the US someday. ;-)
[01:21:34] <NCommander> n1, well, if Article V fires, its going to be madness
[01:21:41] <audioguy> hoping
[01:21:49] <n1> is there a timeline on that?
[01:22:06] <audioguy> Sooner the better. ;-)
[01:22:16] <NCommander> n1, no. Article V is when 3/4ths of the states have filed petitions with the federal government for a consitution amendment
[01:22:25] <NCommander> The magic number is 34
[01:22:28] <NCommander> I believe we're at 32
[01:22:33] <n1> wow
[01:22:37] <n1> that i did not know
[01:22:46] <audioguy> Which one is that NC?
[01:22:48] <NCommander> Yeah, its never happened in the history of the United States
[01:23:05] <audioguy> Which amaendment
[01:23:24] <NCommander> audioguy, the law requires convientition to determine amendments to be voted on
[01:23:29] * NCommander digs the text up
[01:23:46] <NCommander> By a national convention assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds (at present 34) of the states.
[01:23:48] <audioguy> So a contrituional convention is that close?
[01:23:55] <NCommander> audioguy, its floated at 32 for about 5 years
[01:24:08] <NCommander> The problem is a lot of states put in requests 30 years ago
[01:24:13] <NCommander> SO its not clear if those are still valid or not
[01:24:13] <audioguy> Over what issue(s)?
[01:24:23] <audioguy> Ah.
[01:24:36] <NCommander> http://en.wikipedia.org
[01:24:47] <NCommander> audioguy, as I said, it will be political madness
[01:24:49] <audioguy> But there are other cases where ordinary amendments have taken decades
[01:24:51] <NCommander> There's NO presentident
[01:24:57] <NCommander> audioguy, they've all started in Congress
[01:25:05] <NCommander> USC provides two methods of ratification
[01:25:16] <audioguy> Sure there is: civil war. ;-)
[01:25:19] <NCommander> By supermajority vote by state congress
[01:25:24] <NCommander> OR, by a popular vote
[01:25:35] <NCommander> (the later has only been done once, to appeal prohibation)
[01:26:15] MrBluze|zzz is now known as MrBluze|afk
[01:26:21] <audioguy> The problem I see is that not enough people are fired up yet.
[01:26:27] <NCommander> audioguy, yet
[01:26:39] <NCommander> audioguy, let the supreme court decide the NSA and FISC are legal
[01:26:41] <NCommander> We'll get riots
[01:27:02] <audioguy> The US populace is like the old 'sleeping giant' quote from Yamamoto.
[01:27:11] <NCommander> Pretty much
[01:27:20] <NCommander> I do a lot of war gaming
[01:27:23] <audioguy> Once we go over that edge...scary.
[01:27:27] <NCommander> The United States is the great equalizer
[01:27:46] <NCommander> Agressive Axis play causes the US to march closer and closer to entering the war
[01:28:07] <NCommander> When the US does
[01:28:11] <NCommander> Shit hits the fan
[01:28:24] <audioguy> What trully pissis me off is that after the Nam war was over, and the USSR folded, we could have TRULY had a real enlightended Pax Americana
[01:28:35] <NCommander> audioguy, blame Nixion
[01:28:47] <audioguy> Out stupid leders have thrown it all away.
[01:28:50] <paulej72> OK I got the editors happy by updating the submission system to give them better format on the stories.
[01:28:57] <NCommander> paulej72, ++
[01:29:13] <audioguy> Register to vote paulej72 :-)
[01:29:22] * NCommander notes he ever only missed one election :-/
[01:29:29] <paulej72> Just need to finish cleaning up before I can do a pull request
[01:29:32] <NCommander> Though I was planning to vote third party on that one
[01:29:35] <paulej72> audioguy: done
[01:29:38] <NCommander> Obama v. Romney: PASS
[01:29:58] <audioguy> Right hell of a choice. ;-)
[01:30:02] * NCommander looked up Obama's voting record before presidental primaries in 2008, and decided I preferred McCain
[01:30:21] <NCommander> I'm not in love with McCain, but he's a more honest person IMHO
[01:30:43] <audioguy> Obama stright out of the Chicago machine, not surprising to me what he has done.
[01:30:54] <paulej72> My code does require another variable update in the db. So far that is two new vars, and 4 menu deletions
[01:30:55] <NCommander> Which is why I don't detest Bush. While he wasn't a great president, I never got the sense he was lying or full of shit
[01:31:18] <audioguy> Obama got elected because he makes good speeches.
[01:31:25] <NCommander> audioguy, so did Hilter
[01:31:28] * NCommander went there
[01:31:32] <n1> lol
[01:31:39] <NCommander> Obama != Hilter
[01:31:42] <audioguy> DISCUSSION TERMINATED
[01:31:46] <audioguy> :-)
[01:31:50] <NCommander> But a charamisatic leader will always win
[01:31:51] <NCommander> Every time.
[01:32:12] <n1> the UK has managed to avoid having any to vote for
[01:32:18] <n1> for quite some time
[01:32:25] <audioguy> Unless you have hreditary leaders, in which case, luck of the draw.
[01:32:28] <NCommander> n1, yeah, but Churchill was a crap peacetime PM
[01:32:44] <n1> Churchill was just a man in the right place at the right time
[01:32:45] <NCommander> There are people that are nexuses. They have the ability to change the world, to motivate people to change and reach new heights
[01:32:52] <n1> nothing about him really said he'd make a good PM
[01:33:13] * NCommander notes he's just honest in his writings
[01:33:14] <audioguy> With a cool voice.
[01:33:24] <audioguy> That sounds great on the radio
[01:33:31] <NCommander> I intend to change the world. The question is if people will follow me :-)
[01:33:41] <audioguy> :-)
[01:33:59] * NCommander is not trying to sound egostical here
[01:34:45] <audioguy> Publish a plan... 'Mein Plan' :-)
[01:34:55] <n1> i thought about changing the world, but that could be taken as a threat to stability...
[01:34:56] <audioguy> Seems to help
[01:35:08] <NCommander> audioguy, working on it
[01:35:14] <NCommander> audioguy, I'm doing a lot of yak shaving ATM
[01:35:26] <NCommander> audioguy, the vision statement though was a downpayment on a true manifesto
[01:36:46] <audioguy> I'm happy right now if the servers actually work :-)
[01:37:10] <NCommander> audioguy, they work fine!
[01:37:20] <NCommander> We've got IPv6 which is even SHINY
[01:37:52] <audioguy> Yeah,yeah, they are working on ipv8 now, you know...
[01:38:16] <audioguy> :-)
[01:38:20] <NCommander> LETS MIGRATE!
[01:38:37] <audioguy> Hell yes, see what breaks.
[01:38:50] <NCommander> audioguy, I'd love us to go pure IPv6
[01:38:54] <NCommander> But that'd break too much crap
[01:38:56] <audioguy> Damn programmers are in the stone age anyway.
[01:39:12] <NCommander> Yeah, some non-sense about compiling everything from source
[01:39:14] * NCommander ducks
[01:39:25] <NCommander> audioguy, just be happy I didn't inflict YP on you
[01:39:35] <NCommander> (not that LDAP is great but you know. PROGRESS)
[01:39:46] <audioguy> No shit. Any REAL programmer would be hand crafing in a hex editor
[01:39:48] * NCommander notes perhaps I should have just scp-ed shadow/passwd/group to all machines
[01:40:14] <NCommander> audioguy, pfft, real programmers use a maganized needle (or coil gun in cases of core memory) and a very steady hand
[01:40:20] <paulej72> hey I do this on my hpc clusters
[01:40:32] <paulej72> except I use rsync
[01:40:56] <NCommander> paulej72, https://sentinel.soylentnews.org - you seen this yet?
[01:41:11] * NCommander notes we've got it doing SSH multiplexing + kerberos to monitor everything
[01:41:38] <audioguy> Can we read paper tape? I still have a copy of Microsoft basic on it. (illegal, too :-) )
[01:42:03] <NCommander> audioguy, that requires setting up /etc/printcap
[01:42:15] * NCommander notes there's some things about UNIX I'm happy that went straight to hell
[01:42:56] <NCommander> http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com - printcap sucks
[01:42:58] <paulej72> NCommander: I have not seen sentinel since all the servers were added
[01:43:11] <paulej72> looks good except oxygen
[01:43:23] <NCommander> paulej72, oxygen haing kerberos problems
[01:43:31] <NCommander> rdns doesn't work properly for that machine so its having a fit
[01:43:47] <NCommander> its on xlefay's to fix file
[01:43:53] * NCommander notes IPv6 rdns is special
[01:44:13] <audioguy> What's the problem? It's 'simplified'?
[01:44:17] <audioguy> The format
[01:44:18] <audioguy> of the printcap file is a simplified version of the /etc/termcap database
[01:44:18] <audioguy> format.
[01:44:27] <audioguy> Easy. :-)
[01:46:52] <paulej72> OK I have been itting at my computer too long and I need to go home and get some food. be back later
[01:54:52] <NCommander> audioguy, I need a decoder to loop at printcap and know what has been done
[02:01:50] <NCommander> ugh
[02:01:53] * NCommander twiches
[02:02:02] <NCommander> so much to do
[02:02:05] <NCommander> So little time
[02:03:03] <NCommander> wtf
[02:03:07] <NCommander> beryllium is still paging out
[02:03:08] <NCommander> ugh
[02:09:22] <NCommander> fuck it
[02:10:39] * NCommander goes to setup Tor hidden service
[02:19:49] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[02:21:03] <MrBluze> tor hidden service 8D
[02:21:28] <MrBluze> ftw
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[02:45:50] <NCommander> MrBluze, I expect people to test it before I push it to the world
[02:46:00] <NCommander> xlefay, oxygen's krb5 setup been fixed (+ rdns)
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[02:52:24] <MrBluze> that sounds good
[02:52:42] <MrBluze> maybe someone could fish for .onion id's until we get a memorable one?
[02:53:00] <MrBluze> paulej72: are u asleep?
[02:53:14] <paulej72> yes I am :)
[02:53:28] <paulej72> only 10 PM for me
[02:54:45] <MrBluze> okay
[02:54:53] <MrBluze> i want to send u a pdf i think..
[02:55:02] <paulej72> OK go for it
[02:55:09] <MrBluze> i havent shown it to laminator but just for a thought..
[02:55:16] <MrBluze> ok.. email paulej@sn?
[02:55:54] <paulej72> should work if it has not been broken
[02:55:58] <MrBluze> ok
[02:56:27] <MrBluze> ent
[02:56:28] <MrBluze> sent
[02:56:41] <MrBluze> no such mailbo
[02:56:47] <MrBluze> +x .. gimme a valid email.. in /msg if needed
[02:57:28] <MrBluze> we should go for a named font other than helvetica imo .. it is TOO generic
[02:58:51] <paulej72> sorry paulej72@sn
[02:58:59] <MrBluze> okay
[02:59:15] <MrBluze> ok check now
[03:00:11] <paulej72> no attacment
[03:01:08] <paulej72> pm sent
[03:01:15] <MrBluze> ok
[03:02:23] <MrBluze> resent .. check now at pm email
[03:03:14] <MrBluze> it is just a start .. we need a much more comprehensive css system, such as we need tiny text for endnotes
[03:03:33] <MrBluze> that is better in a serif font, serif fonts are more readable when they become tiny
[03:04:26] * MrBluze favours minimal use of italics as a general rule - it should be used for emphasis probably
[03:04:43] <MrBluze> are drop-caps easily achieved with css?
[03:05:25] <paulej72> I am not a fan of drop caps as it causes readability problems for users with poor eyesite.
[03:06:17] <MrBluze> i agree, but would only use it for the first letter of the first article
[03:06:21] <MrBluze> if at all
[03:06:25] <paulej72> Yes I do not like the italicized bloquote
[03:06:45] <MrBluze> i think slightly but noticeably greyed blockquote
[03:06:54] <MrBluze> and reduced or condensed font size for quoting
[03:07:11] <paulej72> I really do not think it is approiate for use of dropcap fo a news sit like ours.
[03:07:38] <MrBluze> no prob - i just put it in that sample so u could see and reject it as appropriate
[03:07:53] <MrBluze> BUT i think opensans looks better than helvetica
[03:08:18] <paulej72> reducing or condensing the font size for quotes is also bad for readabiltiy.
[03:08:31] <MrBluze> depends
[03:09:29] <MrBluze> readability is also impaired if there is not enough differentiation between article text and quoted text
[03:09:40] <MrBluze> eg: for skimming through the article
[03:11:33] <MrBluze> .. does css allow u to micro-adjust font weight?
[03:12:05] <paulej72> yes but browsers do not follow the specs very well
[03:13:02] <MrBluze> hmm ..
[03:13:15] <MrBluze> currently the text on the site is too uniform
[03:14:41] <MrBluze> could go light font for quote text, regular for normal text
[03:16:05] <paulej72> I never tried lighter weight text ever on a web site. I only usually only do blod
[03:16:08] <paulej72> bold
[03:16:57] <MrBluze> text currently on the site is helvetica, which is dense
[03:17:13] <MrBluze> this is hard to read on landscape displays because the lines are very long
[03:17:35] * NCommander fiddles
[03:18:20] <MrBluze> .. its not too bad but
[03:18:29] <paulej72> MrBluze: actually this is font family as it is currently set: Verdana,Geneva,"Bitstream Vera Sans","DejaVu Sans",sans-serif
[03:19:00] <MrBluze> verdana ..
[03:19:18] <paulej72> It shoul only hit Helvitica if the others are not present
[03:19:59] <MrBluze> ok
[03:20:30] <MrBluze> i read a study on readability which ranked calibri as #1 for screen
[03:20:37] <MrBluze> even though it's M$ choice
[03:21:15] <paulej72> calibri is heavily dependint on MS cleartype to work properly
[03:21:18] <MrBluze> Calibri, Candara, Segoe, "Segoe UI", Optima, Arial, sans-serif
[03:21:56] <paulej72> what about Linux and Macs that may not have these fonts
[03:21:58] <MrBluze> it is more readable as it is closer to a serif font i think
[03:22:00] <MrBluze> mac does
[03:22:04] <MrBluze> lemme see for linux
[03:22:21] * MrBluze has a pure gnu linux
[03:23:33] <MrBluze> verdana is the most ubuquitous of them all .. hmm
[03:24:07] <paulej72> Macs have Optima and Ariel by default
[03:25:03] <paulej72> form that list
[03:25:08] <MrBluze> i don't know what it is, but the text on the site is still harder to read than I would expect
[03:26:15] <MrBluze> yeah
[03:26:23] <paulej72> It is that damn javascript. What font size is the body text for the stories and comments. It should be 14pt. but I bet you get 24pt
[03:27:02] <MrBluze> yeah that seriously has to go ..
[03:27:12] <MrBluze> we gotta take control of the css!!!
[03:28:00] <MrBluze> hmm.. with js disabled it's not different on the mac
[03:28:31] <MrBluze> the font is ... just not optimal :(
[03:32:37] <MrBluze> somehow it's too heavy
[03:33:29] <paulej72> there is no real sense in looking at most of this stuff piece meal. we need to have a new design that we can work to, as there are too many css kludges that need to be fixed with a complete rewirte
[03:33:50] <MrBluze> you are right
[03:34:07] <MrBluze> in the short term however some improvements to blockquote and adding <code> or <source> is appropriate
[03:39:51] * MrBluze could buy us a fontset
[03:41:55] <MrBluze> eg: htt[://monocrom.no/fonts/telefon
[03:42:36] <MrBluze> line spacing is too tight currently
[03:46:38] <paulej72> MrBluze: I did adjust the line heigth down from the defalt. I could set that back. As for blockquuot styling, see what the eds would like as they use them a lot in the stories. I can add code stying as well, i think I need to activate that tag though.
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[03:47:04] <MrBluze> ofc
[03:47:54] <MrBluze> i am jumping ahead i realise that - eds need to come up with their requirements .. hopefully laminator will do so soon
[03:48:17] <n1> this ed is going to bed
[03:48:49] <n1> LamX is lurking somewhere
[03:50:25] <MrBluze> gnite n1
[03:50:40] <MrBluze> he's not online afaik
[03:54:05] <paulej72> good night n1
[03:56:17] <MrBluze> paulej72: line height is difficult .. the right settings depends on how many words per line etc
[03:57:29] <MrBluze> the SN wiki for example has bigger line height and smaller default font as far as i can tell
[03:57:30] <mattie_p> later, n1
[03:58:41] <MrBluze> eg: if line length is 70 characters (~32em) line height should be 1.2em
[03:59:38] <MrBluze> http://www.pearsonified.com
[04:02:00] <paulej72> looks like i did not set line height. Left it at bowser default.
[04:03:15] <MrBluze> that page could be the basis of where we start with our font sizing/line heights etc
[04:05:10] <MrBluze> ill do something on the wiki about it now
[04:09:45] <NCommander> WTF
[04:09:48] * NCommander beats oxygen
[04:21:43] <paulej72> time for bed for me. See you tomorrow.
[04:23:20] <mattie_p> goodnight, paulej72
[04:28:40] * NCommander finished a massive amount of backend work
[04:28:44] <NCommander> I feel productive++
[04:29:06] <mattie_p> NCommander, nice, good to hear
[04:30:34] <NCommander> mattie_p, https://sentinel.soylentnews.org - its sexy
[04:30:46] <NCommander> mattie_p, (I don't think you have a krb5 username/pass so you might not be able to access it)
[04:31:41] <mattie_p> nope, I don't have one yet. I haven't sent you a cert yet either
[04:31:42] <NCommander> mattie_p, http://wiki.soylentnews.org - also got a start on this
[04:31:50] <NCommander> mattie_p, I can generate a krb5 username/pass
[04:31:59] <NCommander> mattie_p, you don't need a cert unless you want to SSH in
[04:32:33] <mattie_p> well, now that I have the MUD stable I might need one to run it
[04:32:51] <NCommander> mattie_p, need a node?
[04:33:05] <mattie_p> NCommander it is pretty low memory, I think
[04:33:17] <mattie_p> let me check the stats on it, but it could probably be shared
[04:33:19] <NCommander> mattie_p, hrm
[04:33:27] <NCommander> mattie_p, beryllium still pretty loaded
[04:33:31] <NCommander> (less now but ...)
[04:35:29] <mattie_p> lets see, its using 2% of my system memory, which is 8GB
[04:36:04] <mattie_p> so ... 16MB?
[04:36:11] <mattie_p> no, 160MB
[04:36:14] <mattie_p> that seems a little high
[04:37:11] <NCommander> mattie_p, yesh
[04:37:20] <NCommander> mattie_p, I want to chroot that sucker anyway
[04:37:26] <NCommander> mattie_p, what distro do you want?
[04:38:09] <mattie_p> I managed to compile it on ubuntu, so that will work
[04:38:22] <mattie_p> I just need to double check all the additions I made to the code since I last checked there
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[04:39:01] <mattie_p> I have it working as a basic IRC client now :)
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[04:55:40] <MrBluze> paulej72: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[04:59:45] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: amazing that you are thinking of golden ratio in typography
[05:00:00] * mrcoolbp was already reading that page
[05:00:59] <MrBluze> it will save arguments lol
[05:05:53] <mrcoolbp> beback tomorrow, need sleep
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[05:07:03] <NCommander> MrBluze, ?
[05:07:47] <MrBluze> hi NCommander
[05:07:51] <MrBluze> sup?
[05:09:24] <NCommander> MrBluze, whats the page?
[05:09:50] <MrBluze> the wiki? It is a sub-page of style, on typographic guidelines for CSS
[05:10:16] <MrBluze> the persaonified page shows the mathematical basis for readable text formatting
[05:11:03] <MrBluze> ... and shows very plainly that the site currently is doing it wrong - hence it isn't fun to read
[05:11:44] <MrBluze> it's a derivation of what Leonardo da Vinci worked out with image composition etc, but applied to text - and it works.
[05:35:15] <NCommander> w00t
[05:35:17] <NCommander> Ok, that worked
[05:36:11] <NCommander> Ok, I can load the main page through reverse proxy
[05:46:01] <NCommander> HAHA
[05:46:02] <NCommander> It works
[05:46:06] <NCommander> MrBluze, you use tor, right?
[05:47:39] <MrBluze> yes
[05:50:22] <NCommander> MrBluze, want to test this?
[05:50:32] <MrBluze> yes.. see msg
[05:50:41] <MrBluze> .. or see somewhere
[05:51:26] <MrBluze> flawless
[05:55:31] <xlefay> Awesome! Thank you NCommander :)
[05:56:18] <NCommander> xlefay, oxygen is having some DNS issues :-/
[05:56:33] <xlefay> Does it try to use our DNS?
[05:57:32] <NCommander> xlefay, it does now
[05:57:36] <NCommander> But that didn't fix it
[05:57:51] <xlefay> NCommander, oh no, that won't fix it because oxygen's not in the ACL for bind
[05:57:57] <xlefay> I wanted to exclude that ha
[05:58:24] <xlefay> I'll look into it ;D
[05:58:33] * xlefay <3's icinga's output atm
[05:59:46] <NCommander> xlefay, do you use tor?
[05:59:52] <NCommander> xlefay, I fixed the ACL
[06:02:03] <xlefay> I haven't in a while, I read about you setting it up :)
[06:02:47] <NCommander> xlefay, see the other channel
[06:03:04] * xlefay opens Terminator
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[08:24:01] <NCommander> !todo
[08:24:01] <PoeticWarlord> todo for ncommander: 1) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 2) look at rewiring pollbooth for SERIOUS votes 3) write up YAFAP for nethack 4) find volunteer who may be willing to work on mod_perl rework effort 5) clean production database of unused vars/tables from Tags/FIrehose/Achievements 6) fix slashboxs 7) email to FSF/SPI w/ mattie_p input 8) upstart - 1 more
[08:24:05] <NCommander> !todo-more
[08:24:12] <NCommander> !more
[08:24:12] <PoeticWarlord> job for apache 9) replace mysql SSL certifcates/change soylent password for DB access 10) package nagios check_by_kssh
[08:24:22] <NCommander> !todo-done 2
[08:24:22] <PoeticWarlord> 1 item deleted
[08:24:24] <NCommander> Ain't doing that
[08:25:30] <xlefay> You can probably forget #5 too, it might be best if we just discard that once we're at the point of switching to PostgreSQL
[08:25:36] <xlefay> That is on the roadmap, isn't it?
[08:37:49] <NCommander> xlefay, that's a fucking far way out
[08:38:04] <NCommander> xlefay, and thats the tags/firehose tables that got installed with slash then disabled
[08:38:40] <xlefay> I suppose it is far away, but is it worth removing it now except for cleaning the structure up?
[08:39:16] * NCommander shrugs
[08:39:18] <NCommander> Evventually
[08:39:41] <NCommander> !todo-done 5
[08:39:41] <PoeticWarlord> 1 item deleted
[08:40:01] <xlefay> I'm just saying, since it doesn't really sound like a priority :)
[08:40:10] <xlefay> Having it on the todo list, generally makes it just that :P
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[15:40:23] <janrinok> anybody awake?
[15:46:33] <mattie_p> yup, good day to you
[15:46:45] <janrinok> mattie_p: hello to you too. How's things?
[15:47:52] <mattie_p> pretty decent, I'd say, how about you?
[15:48:24] <janrinok> much the same, not a bad day really.
[15:49:12] <janrinok> It's pretty quiet, but still early for the States. Not many submissions but typical for a Saturday.
[15:59:42] <mattie_p> anyway, gotta give up my laptop to my wife for an hour or so. see you later
[16:01:48] <janrinok> cul8r
[16:02:41] <xlefay> Morning. :)
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[16:11:19] <janrinok> xlefay: morning to you, how's things?
[16:11:40] <xlefay> Good, how about you?
[16:12:07] <janrinok> OK, thanks. How's the workload now that you are team lead?
[16:12:33] <xlefay> Someone mentioned a reference module for the Wiki, I'm hoping that means what I think it does and we can reference an entire section on other pages, saves duplication & makes sure each page has full information available.
[16:13:06] <janrinok> Not heard that mentioned and not sure what it means....
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[16:13:14] <janrinok> n1 hi
[16:14:17] <xlefay> Currently, my task list is rather long, I have to schedule a meeting with all the sysops at some point and take everyone's view of things, see where others priorities lie, etc. For the moment however, I'm contend with leaving team members to do as they see fit, we've got a good team that knows what they're doing so that's a plus :)
[16:15:09] <xlefay> Oh, what I mean is, for instance, I'm making pages for every server, and every wiki page will contain a list of services - but I also want to aggregate that list on another Wiki page, so hopefully that reference module does what I want and we can simply reference to the sections on the server page, does that make more sense?
[16:15:20] <janrinok> Yep, I think that things are beginning to gel in most of the teams now. There is still a long way to go of course, but I believe that we are almost over the initial phase of settling in.
[16:15:23] <xlefay> (e.g. include the sections from each server's page into one page)
[16:16:00] <janrinok> xlefay: Yep, I understand what you mean now - or at least I think that I do!
[16:16:26] <xlefay> And if you change the "Services" section on one page, the "services" page itself will also change to reflect that automatically. That's what I'm hoping it does. That way, one can simply view that page instead of going through each servers page finding what they're looking for.
[16:16:45] <xlefay> You're correct, we've been doing rather well lately I would say :)
[16:16:47] <janrinok> That would certainly make things a lot easier for a lot of people
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[16:17:03] <janrinok> bytram: hi
[16:17:20] <janrinok> America awakes....
[16:18:13] <xlefay> Currently making an inventory of all servers, e.g. what services do they host, what is their purpose, etc. Which makes it easier for me to continue setting up service monitoring (the basic gist of monitoring is done, it's awesome).
[16:18:17] <xlefay> Good morning bytram. :)
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[16:18:38] <janrinok> We've just taken on 3 new eds - it has made things much easier for us and the new eds are keen.
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[16:19:05] <xlefay> That's great! Have they been added to the team's Wiki page?
[16:19:08] <janrinok> perhaps it was something you said....
[16:19:39] <janrinok> I don't know - I'm just queuing a few stories so that we stay active, I'll give it a look in a while.
[16:19:39] <xlefay> Not sure what that's related to?
[16:19:53] <janrinok> You said good morning to bytram|away and he quit!
[16:20:24] <bytram|away> janrinok: LOL! I was messing with my HexChat config... did not quite do what I expected!
[16:20:30] <janrinok> lol
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[16:21:02] <janrinok> ah, back again. Good morning again before you quit...
[16:21:22] <xlefay> Oh I see, I've got join/part notices disabled so I was missing the clue haha *re-enables them* :)
[16:21:36] <Bytram> xlefay: happy to help! ;^)
[16:21:49] <xlefay> With the server pages?
[16:22:15] <Bytram> no, to see the join/part notices
[16:22:18] <Bytram> nvm
[16:22:28] <xlefay> Bytram, well it was worth a shot wasn't it!
[16:22:36] <janrinok> lol
[16:22:38] <Bytram> kaplow! yup!
[16:23:05] <Bytram> xlefay: server pages? You mean: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[16:23:10] <xlefay> #soylent is getting more and more emptier by the day :(
[16:23:29] <janrinok> Yes, but it is always bad at a weekend now.
[16:23:36] <Bytram> Once in a while, we might need to feed them?
[16:23:38] <xlefay> The DNS guide is outdated due to our changes, I'll have to update it.
[16:23:40] <janrinok> I'm having to find my own stories to submit.
[16:24:00] <xlefay> Bytram, I mean more like: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[16:24:50] <Bytram> I see.
[16:25:03] <xlefay> I'm making a specific page per server, the pages should be made from one standardize template and extended on a server-bases when needed. Hopefully, we can aggregate data from those pages on other pages whenever needed to avoid duplicated information. :)
[16:25:43] <Bytram> xlefay++ # YAY! I find it hard to keep track of what is where and does what... this is GREAT!
[16:25:43] <PoeticWarlord> karma - xlefay: 34
[16:26:07] <xlefay> Indeed :) Have you looked at the monitoring's web interface yet?
[16:26:29] <Bytram> can't say that I have... where can I find it?
[16:26:52] <xlefay> Currently, all basic information is being monitored; by making an inventory of all servers, I'll be making life for me - when adding monitoring for specific services more easy, and the life of others, like you - to know where things are :)
[16:27:14] <xlefay> You've got a login that works with Kerberos, correct? If so: https://sentinel.soylentnews.org
[16:27:30] <Bytram> maybe .topic the url at the unnamed?
[16:27:50] <Bytram> on my way... brb
[16:28:15] <Bytram> this connection is untrusted... blegh!
[16:28:18] <xlefay> Not everyone can sign in there, only those who have a Kerberos log in on the servers (those who can 'kinit' once connected)
[16:28:38] <xlefay> You can safely disregard that, if the issuer matches cacert.org
[16:29:10] <Bytram> kthnx
[16:29:24] <xlefay> I should also make a list of all SSH fingerprints and such, for those server pages so people can validate they're connecting to the right server. See, we're getting more and more stuff done now. :)
[16:29:51] <Bytram> you guys are great! now if I can just remember what my pwd is... got too many of them over here!
[16:30:35] <xlefay> e.g. a servers specific fingerprint should be mentioned on the servers page, but if this reference module for the wiki works as I think it does, we can also have one page that contains all the fingerprints that gets them from each servers individual page. :)
[16:30:39] <xlefay> Oh, life will be so easy.
[16:30:52] <xlefay> Bytram, remember the password you do for 'kinit'?
[16:31:12] <Bytram> never kinited, but I can ssh using putty
[16:31:42] <xlefay> Let me see if you've got a Kerberos password, if not, I'll set you up
[16:31:46] <Bytram> unless it wants my passphrase?
[16:32:49] <xlefay> You don't have a kerberos password yet, can you SSH into boron?
[16:33:02] <Bytram> let me try... hold on a bit
[16:34:17] <xlefay> Oh you do, have a kerberos account, and I missed it. You should try 'kinit' once you're connected and see if you set it to your passphrase
[16:34:18] <Bytram> k, i'm in
[16:34:57] <Bytram> well, I'm on boron... trying passphrase...
[16:35:47] <Bytram> does not seem to work.
[16:37:28] <Bytram> xlefay: no joy.
[16:38:05] <xlefay> I'm looking at the manual, figuring out how to reset it for you. :)
[16:38:19] <Bytram> Thanks!!!!
[16:38:41] <Bytram> fwiw: "kinit: Password incorrect while getting initial credentials"
[16:39:30] <xlefay> Ok, I've resetted it. Let's go PM.
[16:39:36] <Bytram> k
[16:40:13] <xlefay> When you've used that password, execute 'kinit' enter it, then change it by using 'kpassword' I would advise setting it to your passphrase you use for your SSH key. :)
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[16:42:55] <xlefay> n1, some advice, if your client supports "server password" set it to n1:password (password being your nick password) and you'll be auto identified on connect. :)
[16:43:32] <n1> you know i was just thinking the same thing ;)
[16:43:49] <xlefay> hehe
[16:44:35] <n1> hows everything going today
[16:44:55] <xlefay> Quite well, how about on your end?
[16:45:01] <xlefay> Also, a bit late, welcome to the team!
[16:45:20] <n1> thanks :)
[16:46:13] <xlefay> I should talk with FunPika, I've got a few suggestions for him (in case the reference module does work); If we can make a template for team pages (that teams can extend), we can reference team members from their own pages in WhosWho and such, saves the duplication again!
[16:47:21] <xlefay> Bytram, so now you can get into Sentinel. Just use the username 'martyb' and the password you just set. ;)
[16:47:44] <Bytram> got it!
[16:47:45] <xlefay> You'll see, in the top bar "45 OK", click it ;D
[16:48:21] <Bytram> whoah! WOW!
[16:48:37] <xlefay> Can you believe, that's merely the basics of the information we'll be monitoring?
[16:49:57] <Bytram> I shudder to think of it... Just. Plain. Wow!
[16:50:17] <xlefay> It's pretty straight forward, e.g. Green = Good; Yellow = "less than optimal" and Red is simply bad. When updates for servers are available, it'll say, "APT" in yellow + the number of updates available. I'll have to make a modification to the Yum setting, it has updated but it isn't yellow, yet.
[16:50:54] <xlefay> I've also yet, received a reply from an actual sysops in my thread regarding what e-mail they want to be notified on. :-/
[16:51:17] <xlefay> (an actual sysop, meaning someone in the sysops group)
[16:52:17] <xlefay> I'll ask them on IRC I suppose. :) Anyway, I'm rambling :P Go check out how awesome our monitoring actually is ;)
[16:52:25] * Bytram thinks you should not change their sn pwd. :P
[16:53:01] <xlefay> Ha, so they'll have to contact me?
[16:53:30] <Bytram> <grin style="evil">
[16:53:49] <xlefay> haha :)
[16:53:51] <Bytram> j/k
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[16:54:41] <xlefay> Naturally :)
[16:55:06] <Bytram> hrmmm, is there a way to "pause" icinga? I've got limited bandwidth and a small monthly cap.
[16:56:48] <xlefay> Yes, on the page, just below the "big header", you'll see a small refresh icon, before that, there's a "pause" link
[16:57:11] <xlefay> Not sure, if that would actually stop anything else from refreshing. You don't have to monitor it for your own bandwith though.
[16:57:28] <xlefay> for the sake of your own bandwith*
[16:57:40] <Bytram> ha! I just realized... I have noscript active! Doh!
[16:58:20] <xlefay> Not sure if that would stop it from refreshing, but it might stop it from being able to pause. (not sure)
[16:58:43] <Bytram> don't see the button... refreshing page...
[16:59:04] <xlefay> "Resetting a users password" or 'an'?
[16:59:33] <Bytram> refresh icon.
[16:59:43] <xlefay> The pause button isn't a button, it's a small text link before the reset button, perhaps you're not seeing it because of the lack of Javascript?
[16:59:52] <xlefay> Current Network Status
[16:59:52] <xlefay> Last Updated: Sat Mar 29 15:59:36 UTC 2014 - Update in 78 seconds [pause]
[16:59:54] <Bytram> aha! Just found it. THANKS!
[17:02:40] <Bytram> firefox has a green "swirly" spinning in the tab for that page... never stops spinning.
[17:03:28] <xlefay> That's odd, maybe re-open the tab?
[17:03:55] <Bytram> I tried refreshing it... no joy. Moved it to its own window and minimized it, for now.
[17:05:41] <xlefay> I'm sure it'll settle down eventually, I do remember it doing the same here but that was more of a local issue with my previous installation. Firefox never stopped showing the refresh thing, but that's no more. ;)
[17:06:05] <xlefay> Anyway, I should continue with what I'm working on, I'll be back later. :)
[17:06:33] <Bytram> xlefay: thanks for the info! cyal8r
[17:44:40] -!- FunPika [FunPika!~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #staff
[17:44:40] -!- mode/#staff [+v FunPika] by SkyNet
[18:02:23] * xlefay just had a WTF moment @ Ubuntu
[18:02:48] <xlefay> My media hotkeys just work out of the box! :o
[18:05:48] <xlefay> FunPika, hey :)
[18:12:24] <n1> it just works? :o
[18:13:56] <xlefay> Yes, they just work without having to config it myself... it *just* works
[18:14:33] <n1> latest ubuntu?
[18:14:56] <xlefay> 14.04 beta 2
[18:16:05] <xlefay> Now, the default theme is pretty ugly (imo); So I'm using MediterraneanBeforeDawn with Numix-Shine icons, it's quite neat now ;-)
[18:16:59] <xlefay> I guess, spotify made mediakeys work by default since they *only* have a repository for Ubuntu... but nonetheless, it's great that it /just/ works ;)
[18:17:34] <n1> i've always found myself using l/x ubuntu variants after gnome3 ruined it
[18:17:43] <n1> but thats just because im lazy
[18:17:51] <n1> and dont spend enough time using linux
[18:18:19] <xlefay> Gnome 3 sucks badly. I've tried many different distros & interface.. I sticked with KDE after a while (I did try Unity before, but it just sucked)
[18:18:26] <xlefay> but now... Unity is pretty darn neat
[18:18:47] <n1> how so
[18:18:52] <xlefay> I think I'm going to stick with it for a while
[18:19:44] <xlefay> Well for one, it's repositories are awesome. Dual monitor support is pretty good too (especially when you disable the menu's sticky edges and only show the "launchers" on one screen, saves space on another!); I like the menubar integration with topbar (e.g. indicator panel and crap)
[18:20:04] <xlefay> The HUD is *awesome* ... just *awesome*
[18:20:45] <xlefay> All in all, it's been a solid experience, as in, everything *just* worked [so far]
[18:20:48] <n1> maybe i'll look into it again
[18:21:13] <xlefay> Plus, instructing it to use HDMI to play sounds was so fucking painless
[18:21:32] <n1> maybe it's the year of the linux desktop ;)
[18:21:36] <xlefay> honestly... I just clicked "HDMI" in the audio stuff, and you guessed it, it *just* worked!
[18:21:49] <xlefay> Ha, more like the Ubuntu desktop ;-)
[18:22:03] <n1> lol
[18:22:34] <n1> got a minute to do me a favour?
[18:22:38] <xlefay> Most things on Korora worked out of the box but there was a few issues here and there which required some work to get around but.. honestly, I've never had such an experience with Ubuntu. ;)
[18:22:46] <xlefay> Depends, what is it? ;)
[18:23:26] <n1> the story due to publish at 20:45 needs a better title and for the life of me, i can't think of one, so any thoughts would be appreciated
[18:23:55] * xlefay notes he has barely touched the slash admin interface.. let me check
[18:24:25] <xlefay> About religious stuff?
[18:24:28] <n1> yeah
[18:24:46] <Bytram> n1: I can't see the queue... what is the title you have?
[18:25:07] <Bytram> or, do you have the submission number?
[18:25:09] <xlefay> Bytram, could probably give you better advice, I'm just a sysop & IRC admin ;-)
[18:25:38] <xlefay> However, I must note, I've been missing stories with a question mark, now I can't complain dammit :P
[18:25:39] <n1> Bytram, the current title is "Depression and Religious Attendance"
[18:25:48] <n1> the title of the paper the story is about: "Religious attendance after elevated depressive symptoms: is selection bias at work?"
[18:26:04] <Bytram> how about "getting down with religion" ?
[18:26:08] <xlefay> n1, the answer is "No."
[18:26:17] <n1> lol
[18:26:48] <n1> you may have noticed one of the stories from last night; from the mr-betteridge-is-your-computer-made-of-slime? dept.
[18:26:58] <xlefay> nah, I haven't gotten a clue, another marked religion is something, I tend to avoid
[18:27:07] <xlefay> oh, I might have missed that, I don't read every article
[18:27:21] <n1> it wasnt a very popular story
[18:27:23] <Bytram> saw it. yes... liked it very much!
[18:27:30] <n1> but i liked the dept title :p
[18:27:31] <Bytram> n1++ # well done!
[18:27:31] <PoeticWarlord> karma - n1: 1
[18:27:49] <Bytram> n1++ # that one deserved a double =)
[18:27:49] <PoeticWarlord> karma - n1: 2
[18:27:55] <xlefay> FunPika, ?:)
[18:28:14] <Bytram> do you have a url to the queue entry I can look at?
[18:28:30] <FunPika> ?
[18:28:36] <n1> http://soylentnews.org
[18:28:40] <xlefay> What I wanted with the reference stuff, is that possible?
[18:28:48] <xlefay> e.g. include a section from another page in a page?
[18:29:04] <xlefay> -without- having to duplicate it?
[18:29:11] <n1> LamX just signed off on it, but i still don't like it.
[18:29:14] <Bytram> darn. I don't have privs to see it. Sorry!
[18:29:41] <xlefay> n1, it's one story out of many ;)
[18:30:05] <n1> i strive for perfection!
[18:30:21] <Bytram> I submitted a story a few minutes ago as I heard the queue was running dry.
[18:30:21] <xlefay> n1++ That's good, karma bonus for you sir.
[18:30:21] <PoeticWarlord> karma - n1: 3
[18:30:31] <n1> thanks Bytram, it is indeed
[18:30:41] <Bytram> hey. I just noticed the time.... I gotta run. Have fun everyone!
[18:30:49] <n1> take care, Bytram
[18:30:50] <xlefay> Take care bryan :)
[18:30:53] <xlefay> Bytram, *
[18:30:56] <Bytram> LOL!
[18:31:08] <xlefay> Bytram, too many B's!!!
[18:31:10] <FunPika> xlefay: For that I would probably just create a page in the Template: namespace, with what you want, then insert {{Name of the template}} wherever you need to duplicate it
[18:31:26] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[18:31:49] <xlefay> FunPika, so it's not possible? What I want is to create individual pages for servers, and have one page for "Services" where all that information is included, without having to keep up to date, two pages instead of one.
[18:31:56] <xlefay> Same with SSH fingerprints, etc...
[18:32:19] <xlefay> It seems silly that a Wiki isn't able to do such a simple thing :-/
[18:33:07] <Bytram|away> n1: oops... forgot this in my submission: <a href="http://www.inderscience.com/info/inarticle.php?artid=59797">Exposing WPA2 security protocol vulnerabilities</a> (Abstract available; Article is paywalled)
[18:33:17] <xlefay> ew, paywall.
[18:33:51] <Bytram|away> yes, but the linked article has enough detail to facilitate discussion.
[18:34:09] <FunPika> xlefay: But you want to only include part of the individual pages on the services page?
[18:34:14] <Bytram|away> i.e. not he paywalled one, the "press release" version.
[18:34:18] <Bytram|away> cya
[18:34:49] <n1> Bytram++
[18:34:49] <PoeticWarlord> karma - bytram: 2
[18:35:03] <n1> a submission that wont be painful to edit :D
[18:35:10] <n1> gold stars all round!
[18:35:27] <xlefay> FunPika, correct, aggregate the data on one page so to speak. Or the other way around, it doesn't matter - as long as it prevents duplication of information that can get outdated.
[18:36:12] <xlefay> e.g. if someone needs to know where a specific service is, it's a bit lame to have to look through each server page, and if you're already looking at the server page, it's useful to see whatever services are running on the node, thus it would be useful if we could do something like this.
[18:36:13] -!- Cyprus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:36:32] -!- Cyprus [Cyprus!~Cyprus@68.63.ljr.ppx] has joined #staff
[18:38:16] <xlefay> Also, thank you for saying where templates are located saves some searching haha, I need to make one ;-)
[18:38:49] <FunPika> I'll have to install https://www.mediawiki.org to do that I think
[18:39:44] <FunPika> While I install that you should probably read the documentation on how it works
[18:39:57] <xlefay> Yes, thank you! Much appreciated.
[18:41:47] <xlefay> "There is optional support for transcluding sections of text marked with the normal headings, i.e. ==this section==. If installed, this is done with the lsth function."
[18:42:04] <xlefay> Can you ensure, that's enabled?
[18:43:22] FoobarBazbot is now known as FoobarBazbot|afk
[18:45:01] <FunPika> Both lst and lsth functions should be working now
[18:46:14] <xlefay> Alright, thank you!
[18:49:35] FoobarBazbot|afk is now known as FoobarBazbot
[18:49:52] -!- Bytram|away has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:57:45] <xlefay> NCommander, what's the current use of our OpenVPN installation?
[19:10:53] -!- Cyprus has quit []
[19:19:13] <paulej72> Hello everyone
[19:19:50] <xlefay> Good morning
[19:32:12] <NCommander> xlefay, its not anymore
[19:32:28] <xlefay> So we can remove that one then
[19:33:11] <paulej72> It is always moring somewhere, and therefore it is always 5PM somewhere.
[19:33:23] <xlefay> oh.. you're not talking about morning.... lol
[19:33:47] <xlefay> (I thought you were replying to the OpenVPN question)
[19:34:43] <xlefay> How are you guys?
[19:34:54] * NCommander just woke up
[19:35:28] <xlefay> I see :)
[19:37:22] <paulej72> I have been running errands all day. Got my oil changed and my tires rotated and alignment checked.
[19:37:58] <paulej72> Did some shopping while waitng for my car to get finished
[19:40:53] <xlefay> nice ;)
[19:40:58] <xlefay> Getting stuff done I see eh
[19:41:37] * xlefay notes the wiki seriously need a clean up, so much old outdated information :/
[19:41:48] <xlefay> FunPika, can we flag pages with old/incomplete information?
[19:42:09] <xlefay> Like, how we can flag spam pages with {{speedy}} ?
[19:42:20] <paulej72> xlefay: we also need to seperate dev and sys now that we split again
[19:43:37] <xlefay> I suppose that's true, even in LDAP we already made that distinction
[19:43:42] <paulej72> hate to say it, but it seems that it is just me and NCommander doing any slash development right now
[19:44:07] <paulej72> that is a mighty small dev team.
[19:44:17] <xlefay> I haven't even started reading them perl books... in time when my schedule clears up a bit I might be able to help out
[19:44:29] <paulej72> I have not seen FatPhil in a while, but he may be on vacation
[19:44:36] <xlefay> after I learn all that stuff that is, so see you in the dev team, in say, 2 or 3 years? ;)
[19:45:10] <paulej72> Just focus on the regexes and you can start work in half that time
[19:45:34] <xlefay> I only know basic regexs, I've got it on my todo list but! It's at the bottom hah
[19:45:40] <NCommander> paulej72, I've had a distinct lack of slash time
[19:45:44] <paulej72> you can just do waht I do and fake most of it :)
[19:45:48] * NCommander actually doesn't know regex very well
[19:45:54] <xlefay> rofl ;)
[19:46:10] <paulej72> neither do I
[19:46:42] <NCommander> paulej72, thoughs wanted w.r.t. to reduenting slash
[19:47:01] <paulej72> I don’t think anyone is a regex expert
[19:47:10] <janrinok> I'm back but I bet you guys never even missed me....
[19:47:31] <xlefay> I think the thing with regexs is, is that they can be amazingly complicated; and sometimes unpredictable, but using most online regex tools one can generally create a decent regex ;)
[19:47:33] <paulej72> NCommander: reduenting?
[19:47:36] <NCommander> janrinok, who are you?
[19:47:38] <xlefay> janrinok who?
[19:47:41] <janrinok> lol
[19:47:46] <NCommander> paulej72, email on the list
[19:47:47] <xlefay> heh. ;)
[19:47:56] <janrinok> that's the way to make a guy feel good...
[19:48:22] <NCommander> janrinok, meh, you're French. As an America, we piss in your general direction :-)
[19:48:41] <NCommander> *American
[19:49:12] <janrinok> My country of residence is France, it is true. But I am a Brit and your mother smells of elderberries.
[19:49:38] <xlefay> That might very well be one of the few things Americans & The Dutch have in common, what does that say about France eh? :)
[19:50:04] <janrinok> I do the same and I live amongst them - target rich environment.
[19:50:13] <xlefay> !grab janrinok
[19:50:13] <PoeticWarlord> Added quote 100
[19:50:18] <xlefay> LOL, you're my hero now!
[19:50:26] <janrinok> lol
[19:50:56] <xlefay> I do love brits, especially the way they offend others.. they're always so nice about it ;)
[19:51:08] <janrinok> it's an art form
[19:51:08] <NCommander> And on 29/03/2014, janrinok here brought the 100th of ye quotes into ye database, and the Lord smiled upon the chat and declared it was good.
[19:51:37] <janrinok> I'm welling up now, getting quite emotional
[19:51:38] <xlefay> I really should just /ignore NCommander, it's just so hard not to !grab his lines.
[19:51:49] <NCommander> !grab xlefay
[19:51:49] <PoeticWarlord> Added quote 101
[19:52:06] <NCommander> !quote NCommander
[19:52:06] <PoeticWarlord> Quote 0 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[19:52:06] <xlefay> Dammit. This reminds me of the <censored> quote you took of me.
[19:52:10] <PoeticWarlord> Also in quotes: 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 37, 42, 43, 46, 52, 53, 54, 55, 58, 61, 62, 66, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 89, 90, 91, 93, 95, 98, 99, 101
[19:52:33] <NCommander> thats a lot of quotes
[19:52:39] <xlefay> You don't say
[19:53:23] <NCommander> 'I'm like a quote a day calendar, without the funny cat pictures
[19:53:41] <xlefay> !quote xlefay
[19:53:41] <PoeticWarlord> Quote 15 - <NCommander> xlefay, somehow, this is your fault. I dunno why it is, but it is ...
[19:53:45] <PoeticWarlord> Also in quotes: 16, 18, 26, 28, 32, 34, 39, 46, 51, 59, 60, 62, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 77, 80, 81, 83, 85, 87, 94, 97, 101
[19:54:12] <xlefay> Oh great.. my ISP is fucking up YET again, +30s lag.. everywhere I go :-/
[19:54:24] <NCommander> xlefay, don't worry
[19:54:27] <NCommander> we can fix that :-)
[19:54:31] <xlefay> 60.9s! Yes yes, let's add to the lag. ;)
[19:54:52] <xlefay> and it's gone..
[19:54:58] <NCommander> If you can see this by 14:54 EST, you're not lagging
[19:55:07] <xlefay> I'm no longer lagging, no
[19:55:20] <NCommander> xlefay, thats a double negative which must be proof positive!
[19:55:29] <xlefay> oh god, nerd talk
[19:56:06] <xlefay> Wait, that list of quotes I'm in, you guys shitting on me yet again?! :P
[19:56:44] <xlefay> http://wiki.soylentnews.org .. it's going to be a long, long day
[19:56:46] <NCommander> !quote 51
[19:56:46] <PoeticWarlord> Quote 51 - <xlefay> worse, didn't provide citations where required?
[19:57:03] <NCommander> hah
[19:57:12] <xlefay> Oh, you're looking for the laughing like a little girl one?
[19:57:29] <xlefay> err, I mean <censored> one, of course
[19:57:53] <NCommander> xlefay, no, you didn't cite your wiki page with the output of ps!
[19:58:02] <NCommander> !quote 69
[19:58:02] <PoeticWarlord> Quote 69 - <xlefay> <-- wishful thinker
[19:58:35] <xlefay> I'm not ;) I'm putting down what I think is most important, not sure if we still require OpenVPN, however.
[19:58:43] <paulej72> NCommander: how many network interfaces are on the linodes?
[19:59:02] <NCommander> paulej72, two
[19:59:15] <paulej72> internal and external?
[19:59:17] <NCommander> xlefay, we can unplug the VPNed
[19:59:19] <xlefay> + listing what we should monitor. Monitoring the ntptime stuff for instance, is pretty neat so we can figure out if there's weird breakage, it *may* be related to not synced shit
[19:59:22] <NCommander> paulej72, actually dual homed
[19:59:40] <xlefay> dual stacked too!
[19:59:50] <NCommander> xlefay, boron has a KDC server on it
[20:00:25] <paulej72> NCommander: have you looked at drbd and mysql?
[20:01:39] <NCommander> nope?
[20:01:55] <NCommander> paulej72, I want to get notes down for a release plan in a bit. Can you look at my suggestion re: OpenAFS
[20:03:30] <paulej72> I think that OpenAFS is an OK idea, but we would need a backup for this service as well. (I am a CMU grad and used AFS when it was the bees knees)
[20:07:48] <xlefay> heh.. this is odd, the transclude stuff seems to work in preview however, when posting it to the wiki, it doesn't....
[20:09:57] <xlefay> Guess you have to use the first option to make it work, oh well ;)
[20:14:09] <xlefay> NCommander, can I just service openvpn stop; apt-get remove --purge openvpn # without any caveats?
[20:25:09] <NCommander> paulej72, every end node will be a replicated server
[20:29:12] <FunPika> flagging pages as out of date would require making a new template
[20:30:55] <NCommander> paulej72, didn't know you're from CMU. I've used software that escaped from there
[20:31:19] <paulej72> NCommander: graduated in 95
[20:31:29] * xlefay removes openvpn
[20:31:31] <paulej72> Chemical Engineering
[20:33:15] <NCommander> paulej72, I attended RIT
[20:33:18] * NCommander dropped out :-)
[20:33:19] <paulej72> When I started there all non CS students were taught Pascal as the default language, while the CS students did C. My junior they began using C as the default for everyone
[20:34:34] <NCommander> paulej72, RIT used Java for IT, and CS, and C for Computer Engineering
[20:34:35] <paulej72> I went on to grad school at Princeton, but never finished,but changed carrer tracks and I now do computer support work for the Chemical Engineering depatment
[20:34:40] <xlefay> I wonder if the command not found bug is related to my locale variables set to NL
[20:34:53] <NCommander> xlefay, I don't think the locales are installed
[20:35:00] <NCommander> xlefay, (it appears linode removed them to save space)
[20:35:23] * NCommander can test this easily
[20:35:26] <xlefay> That's correct, but my terminal seems to take a hint from Ubuntu, that's why I'm thinking it may be related since you couldn't reproduce it
[20:36:07] <NCommander> xlefay, mcasadevall@boron:~$ exot
[20:36:08] <NCommander> Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at:
[20:36:08] <NCommander> https://bugs.launchpad.net
[20:36:08] <NCommander> Please include the following information with the report:
[20:36:08] <NCommander> command-not-found version: 0.2.44
[20:36:10] <NCommander> Bingo
[20:36:18] <xlefay> hehe ;)
[20:36:54] <NCommander> mcasadevall@boron:~$ ls /usr/lib/locale/
[20:36:54] <NCommander> C.UTF-8/ locale-archive
[20:36:56] <NCommander> Yeah
[20:37:03] * xlefay goes to fix his local locale variables..
[20:37:19] <xlefay> It's fuckt up it just sends nl_NL, especially in systems that take locale's too far..
[20:37:37] * xlefay thinks of the last time he used OpenSuse (least, I think it was)
[20:37:48] <NCommander> xlefay, I think you can just tell SSH not to send it
[20:37:53] <xlefay> where most things in my terminal where dutch! absolutely horrific
[20:37:55] <NCommander> its trying to emulate rlogin in this respect
[20:38:14] <NCommander> xlefay, BTW, locales on Ubuntu are different than most distros
[20:38:23] <NCommander> xlefay, part of the Ubuntu philosphy is its available in YOUR language
[20:38:31] <NCommander> And as such, we do something different for i18n
[20:38:32] <xlefay> Yes, I was thinking about doing something like that, already have the man page for ssh_config open ;-)
[20:39:08] <NCommander> xlefay, https://translations.launchpad.net
[20:40:13] <xlefay> I'm just glad my local terminal doesn't do dutch.. :)\
[20:41:32] * NCommander switched to duck duck go as his default search and is still getting used to it
[20:42:22] <xlefay> I did that recently too (had it on my korora) but to be honest, I found myself going to google a lot
[20:42:52] <xlefay> Google > ddg except for privacy
[20:46:15] <NCommander> I can't believe someone hasn't already written a milter plugin to autosign emails
[21:06:20] <paulej72> I want to run screaming from slash
[21:06:48] <paulej72> the shit they are doing to get clean html output is so outdated
[21:07:51] <paulej72> we need to make sure everything in a blockqote is a block element, so lets just wrap the insides with a div tag for no reason.
[21:07:54] <xlefay> So they're using shit to create clean stuff?
[21:08:14] <paulej72> yes they are and it does not work very well
[21:08:51] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm more convined that they had no idea what they were doing vs. bad libraries
[21:09:17] <janrinok> paulej72: I wondered why it was done that way - and now I know. There is no sensible reason.
[21:09:21] <NCommander> Ok
[21:09:35] <NCommander> I think I identified the four primary exceptions to freedom of speech/press in the United States
[21:09:42] <NCommander> * Obscenity (as defined by the Milter Test)
[21:09:42] <NCommander> * Pornography
[21:09:42] <NCommander> * Deflamination (defined New York Times Co. v. Sullivan; very limited)
[21:09:42] <NCommander> * Commerical Speech (partially; only when done for profit, see below)
[21:09:49] <paulej72> Lets trun code into a tt element. then we have some code later to wrap the tt in a p. but lets put that all in a <p><blockquote> first
[21:10:04] * NCommander swears repeatively
[21:10:05] <xlefay> 'tt' element? I've never heard of that
[21:10:14] <janrinok> I think you mean Defamation - unless you are talking about lighting fires NCommander
[21:10:14] <NCommander> Damn it, I know I promised this to the community, and they deserve it
[21:10:15] <paulej72> so we get <p><blocquote><div><p><tt>
[21:10:16] <NCommander> but ARGH
[21:10:20] <NCommander> janrinok, we are firefighters :-)
[21:10:26] <janrinok> lol
[21:10:40] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[21:10:40] <PoeticWarlord> Added quote 102
[21:10:47] * NCommander sighs
[21:10:53] <xlefay> Yet another quote!
[21:10:53] <NCommander> I know a lot of people won't be happy w/ us in the US
[21:11:05] * janrinok wonders if that makes us arsonists now ...
[21:11:18] * xlefay so wishes he could quote janrinok on that..
[21:11:38] <janrinok> rofl
[21:12:49] <NCommander> Missed one: * Illegal Transactions (United States v. Williams)
[21:12:50] <paulej72> If the whole html check process was not full of regexes I coul easily fix it, but some of the regexes are really crazy
[21:12:52] <xlefay> NCommander, that seems reasonable. Are you also going to investigate things regarding court orders? e.g. not sure how that all works, but if I'm not mistaken they can even make it so that you can't disclose certain information without committing a crime, I think that's part of the concern.
[21:13:01] <xlefay> If you weren't, I'm sorry for adding to the list.
[21:13:04] -!- pbnjoe [pbnjoe!~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #staff
[21:13:04] <NCommander> xlefay, Jewel v. NSA
[21:13:19] <NCommander> xlefay, I am, but that doesn't technically fall under legal press protections
[21:13:48] <NCommander> The US legal system runs on technicalities
[21:13:58] <paulej72> for paragraph_wrap: ${$_[0]} = '<p>' . ${$_[0]} unless ${$_[0]} =~ /^\s*<p>/s;
[21:14:06] <NCommander> NSLs technically aren't a violation of freedom of speech any more than a gag order is. However, I need to address those
[21:14:20] <NCommander> janrinok, I'm trying to write up the Idiots Guide to the US Legal System
[21:14:22] <xlefay> I suppose some might have had concerns about that, personally, I only had them regarding the black box law system, e.g. gag orders, etc.
[21:14:45] <xlefay> or, the "Foreigners Guide to the US Legal System" ;)
[21:15:36] * NCommander is not playing US apologist here
[21:15:50] <NCommander> BUT, the grounds on a NSL can be issued and can be able are extremely limited
[21:15:58] <NCommander> and there's been court cases fighting and limiting them either further
[21:16:07] <NCommander> They aren't supergag orders like the UK, at least not yet
[21:16:26] <janrinok> Yes, the UK system sucks
[21:16:51] <NCommander> janrinok, no offense, but you guys really seem two steps away from a police state :-/
[21:16:53] <xlefay> That's good, if we're being honest, I'd say most of the concerns are related to all the leaks which instill fear. I'm fairly sure, there are a lot of governments still much worse than the UK for instance.
[21:17:11] <janrinok> No offence taken, I can assure you.
[21:17:47] <NCommander> xlefay, the problem is the UK only has the House of Lords and the Crown as circuit breakers before a descent into toleratism
[21:17:56] <janrinok> The UK is getting worse, but maintaining this mask of respectability so to others it looks almost reasonable.
[21:18:20] <xlefay> It's funny, it seems generally accepted that the UK is going closer there but everyone seems to be more concerned with the US
[21:19:12] <NCommander> xlefay, mostly because if the US goes, we're all fucked.
[21:19:50] <xlefay> That's probably true, although, I've got full faith in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, I'm still waiting for that darned what-if xkcd prophecy to come true.
[21:19:55] <janrinok> It is similar to the situation in the US, in that as long as joe sixpack has got his beer and TV he is happy. There doesn't appear much happening now to the outside world regarding the 1%, Snowden's revelations or whatever.
[21:20:43] <xlefay> janrinok, indeed, it's rather sad
[21:20:45] <janrinok> Its the same in the UK. They look outwards but we don't look at ourselves. Perhaps we are frightened of what we might see.
[21:21:09] <xlefay> I think it's exactly that.
[21:21:34] <janrinok> Perhaps you are the only one living in a sane society xlefay?
[21:22:10] <NCommander> Ugh
[21:22:11] <NCommander> What a bitch
[21:22:17] * NCommander is going to get a good dent of this done today
[21:22:51] <xlefay> janrinok, nah, my Government's intelligence service outsources a lot for instance, it has big ties with other intelligence agencies and such, I don't doubt they share information on Dutch citizens for instance in exchange and other information they collect.
[21:23:02] * NCommander goes to smoke then get into A mode
[21:23:03] <xlefay> That's just one example.
[21:23:32] <janrinok> I guess its the same wherever one looks.
[21:23:58] <janrinok> Its easier to see the faults in other systems and yet ignore the faults in your own.
[21:24:09] <xlefay> Indeed. I'm starting to believe these conspiracy theories about hidden organizations more and more each day ha
[21:24:36] <xlefay> Indeed, it is, it's also because people don't want their government to be bad.
[21:24:45] <janrinok> If you're not here tomorrow - I'll tell everyone that 'they' got you.
[21:24:54] <xlefay> !grab janrinok
[21:24:54] <PoeticWarlord> Added quote 103
[21:24:59] <janrinok> Please do the same for me...
[21:25:05] <xlefay> Now, finally something I can quote you on.
[21:25:09] <janrinok> lol
[21:25:10] <xlefay> janrinok, I promise!
[21:25:20] <janrinok> brb
[21:25:41] <xlefay> If you're not back within a reasonable time, I'll let everyone know, 'they' got you, just in case.
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[21:28:21] -!- mode/#staff [+v bytram|away] by SkyNet
[21:28:56] bytram|away is now known as bytram
[21:31:49] <NCommander> Back
[21:32:53] <xlefay> NCommander, welcome back.
[21:32:59] <janrinok> Back as well xlefay
[21:33:00] <xlefay> Also, I think janrinok's been taken.
[21:33:07] <NCommander> xlefay, I installed a yum plugin for beryllium, but its not generating warnings for updates, just critical security stuff (it appears the command line argument is not sent)
[21:33:14] <xlefay> janrinok, how can we be sure, it's actually you?
[21:33:31] <janrinok> who else would spend their Saturday nights here?
[21:33:34] <xlefay> NCommander, that's actually on my to do to get it to say it as a warning but it's just a command line arg, that's even better! :)
[21:33:51] <NCommander> xlefay, it just seems the argument isn't sent to the YUM plugin
[21:34:07] <xlefay> Yep, so that should be a quick fix ;)
[21:34:50] <xlefay> Can you quickly check: http://wiki.soylentnews.org | you were right tho, mostly ps (misunderstood what you meant with citation) but also using the wiki page you made; do you see anything missing perse?
[21:34:54] <xlefay> besides some nodes.. obviously
[21:35:00] <xlefay> FunPika++ for that transclude plugin!
[21:35:00] <PoeticWarlord> karma - funpika: 2
[21:36:16] <xlefay> janrinok, that's exactly what 'they' would say too!
[21:37:00] <janrinok> but even the spies have better things to do on a Saturday evening don't they? If not, I'd change my job!
[21:38:03] <xlefay> hah, welcome back ^^
[21:38:21] <janrinok> thx, I wasn't sure how to get out of that...
[21:38:30] <xlefay> !grab janrinok
[21:38:30] <PoeticWarlord> Added quote 104
[21:38:34] <xlefay> For future abusive purposes.
[21:38:42] <bytram> !grab xlefay
[21:38:42] <PoeticWarlord> Added quote 105
[21:38:52] <janrinok> It's obviously 'pick on janrinok' night.
[21:38:54] <xlefay> Don't tell me, for future abusive purposes?
[21:39:05] <bytram> I'm not telling =)
[21:39:14] <janrinok> rofl, thx bytram
[21:39:14] <xlefay> !grab bytram
[21:39:14] <PoeticWarlord> Added quote 106
[21:39:36] <xlefay> Surely, we can have some use for that one in the future.
[21:39:39] <bytram> et tu touche?
[21:39:43] <bytram> j/k
[21:39:50] <paulej72> Hey all ther is a varable in the db that sets if encode high bits is on or off. If I turn it off unicoe works. dev.soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/03/29/2038235
[21:40:06] <NCommander> paulej72, !
[21:40:08] <NCommander> paulej72, !!
[21:40:10] <NCommander> paulej72, !!!!
[21:40:17] <bytram> paulej72++ # !woop
[21:40:17] <PoeticWarlord> karma - paulej72: 8
[21:40:21] <bytram> !woop
[21:40:21] <PoeticWarlord> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[21:40:26] <xlefay> paulej72, if there's anything we've learned so far, _something_ will break - so what's the catch?
[21:40:27] <NCommander> paulej72, should we just flip that on the production database?
[21:40:40] <janrinok> paulej72: so is it call the 'fuck-up-unicode' variable?
[21:40:42] <xlefay> NCommander, I'm guessing, nothing's missing then, least nothing stands out?
[21:40:45] <janrinok> called*
[21:41:03] <bytram> how about some test cases, first?
[21:41:10] * NCommander is debating right now if he's willing to copy past of this summary from wikipedia
[21:41:18] <bytram> NCommander: don't you have a journal article with a bunch of utf-8 in it?
[21:41:23] <paulej72> we should test it out on dev and see if it breaks things. The variable is draconian_charset
[21:41:42] <xlefay> paulej72++ regardless, good find ;)
[21:41:42] <PoeticWarlord> karma - paulej72: 9
[21:41:46] <janrinok> quite aptly named, I think
[21:42:17] <NCommander> bytram, I do, but I'm not sure if it works retroactively
[21:42:34] <bytram> am looking at: http://dev.soylentnews.org
[21:42:44] <paulej72> no no retoactive, once encoded it stays as encoded
[21:42:59] <paulej72> no not
[21:43:11] <janrinok> So does it encode at the submission stage, editing stage or when, Any ideas?
[21:43:44] <bytram> and can we just key them in, or do we have to use character entities?
[21:44:10] * janrinok thinks that will keep paulej72 busy...
[21:45:07] <paulej72> normal keying will work as I copy and pasted into the sub.
[21:45:34] <paulej72> Problem with the lameness filter. It does not understand all unicode text.
[21:46:42] <bytram> paulej72: just ran into that. http://dev.soylentnews.org
[21:46:52] <NCommander> paulej72, maybe time to rip out the lameness filter
[21:47:29] <paulej72> cant seem to preview a comment with unicode
[21:47:38] <bytram> I cant imagine they had so much free time, they decided to code it just for fun? What problem were they trying to solve?
[21:47:45] <janrinok> Is there a downside to ripping it out - it must do something useful, musn't it?
[21:48:01] -!- FunPika has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[21:48:14] <xlefay> bytram, probably their own lame coding skills, little did that help
[21:48:17] <NCommander> janrinok, some weak spam filtering
[21:48:20] <NCommander> Vyer weak
[21:48:44] <xlefay> Oh, that reminds me, those DNSBL's ;)
[21:48:47] <bytram> NCommander: vyer, vyer weak!
[21:48:48] <janrinok> OK, sounds as though it wouldn't be much of a loss.
[21:48:55] * NCommander is trying to write up Near v. Minnesota
[21:48:56] <NCommander> Ugh
[21:49:01] <NCommander> Transparency sucks
[21:54:52] * bytram just tossed a half-dozen cyrillic alphabets into a post at dev.sn... waiting for it to preview... and waiting...
[21:56:33] <bytram> correction: into a comment at dev.sn; looks like I killed it. Came back with an empty comments page.
[21:57:11] <janrinok> glad we didn't try that on the live system then.....
[21:58:26] * xlefay wonders what the hell lithium is doing...
[21:58:28] <paulej72> I set the var back to what it was. Unicode heavy text still seems to kill the comment page
[21:58:29] <xlefay> "WARNING - load average: 3.92, 4.46, 2.42"
[21:58:33] <bytram> janrinok: yup! I'm trying it again... hit preview; page repainted; see status msg "transferring data from dev.sn..." now it says "done" and there is absolutely nothing of the comment displayed.
[21:58:39] <xlefay> Oh, that explains why the load is so high paulej72 ;-)
[21:59:15] <bytram> am skipping preview and hitting "submit" directly.
[21:59:22] <paulej72> Yes that is why the load is high, trying to break dev by giving it too much unicode
[22:00:06] * xlefay thinks the ubuntu logo on a servers specific monitoring page is rather big..
[22:00:30] <bytram> possible DDos attack vector!
[22:00:57] <bytram> need to finish making dinner; afk, back in 5 minutes
[22:01:45] -!- FunPika [FunPika!~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #staff
[22:01:45] -!- mode/#staff [+v FunPika] by SkyNet
[22:03:15] <NCommander> http://wiki.soylentnews.org - so how does that look for Near. v. Minnesota
[22:03:19] <NCommander> ^- janrinok paulej72 bytram
[22:03:29] <janrinok> bytram: I not sure, just submitting the unicode story doesn't take much cpu, only when we try to edit it. Of course, we dont't know what is in a submission until we edit so it could be a problem, the eds could DDos themselves.
[22:04:02] <xlefay> janrinok, not themselves, the site itself. The server load went up substantially.
[22:04:24] <NCommander> Are we sure lithium just haven't lost its mind?
[22:04:56] <xlefay> Fairly sure it was related, based on what was being said here being around the same time the status changed to warning
[22:05:17] <NCommander> xlefay, remember, its a VPS. Another instance on the same node can peg the CPU
[22:05:26] <NCommander> xlefay, we're only guaretted one CPU work of juice on lithium
[22:06:14] <xlefay> NCommander, that's true, however, given the time and the alert, it doesn't appear to be a coincidence, we could test and see if it happens again
[22:06:22] <NCommander> xlefay, true
[22:06:28] <xlefay> cc: paulej72, wanna test?
[22:06:38] <NCommander> Can someone just give me a bit of feedback on my article to see if I'm writing in a clear way?
[22:07:02] <paulej72> I am sure it was slash tring to cope with a bunch of unicode. my wrowser would time out on trying to do a preview
[22:07:04] <bytram> i"m ready to test... just give he word.
[22:07:13] <janrinok> NCommander: I'm reading it now
[22:07:15] <bytram> NCommander: am looking right now
[22:07:57] <xlefay> bytram, we should wait a few minutes before doing so though, allowing lithium to get back to a regular load avg's
[22:08:23] <janrinok> NCommander: "Olson filed a complaint the Near and Guilford under Minnesota's Public Nuciance Law" - don't know what this is trying to say, and it is 'nuisance'
[22:08:29] <bytram> xlefay: that's fine. I'm ready when u are, that's all
[22:08:45] <NCommander> janrinok, my spellchecker doesn't work properly with mediawiki's edit page
[22:09:18] <xlefay> bytram / paulej72: you can probably test yourself, highlight me if you need me
[22:09:44] <bytram> about to hit preview...
[22:09:46] <janrinok> np, but I also don't understand what you are trying to say. Should the 'the' be a different word?
[22:10:05] <NCommander> janrinok, editing
[22:10:11] <janrinok> k
[22:10:40] <NCommander> Olson filed a complaint against Near and Guilford under Minnesota's Public Nuisance Law '''FIXME: Find actual test of this law and quote it''', in an attempt to silence the paper. After battling it out in state courts, the case eventually made its way to the Supreme Court
[22:10:50] <bytram> huh! that page came right pack this time... but it changed all the characters around and does not look right... am submitting anyway
[22:11:34] <NCommander> ah
[22:11:43] * NCommander found the text of the Public Nuisance Law
[22:11:48] <NCommander> It was cited in full in the holding
[22:11:49] <paulej72> bytram: I truned off unicode
[22:11:53] * NCommander is reading the holding in full
[22:12:30] <bytram> paulej72: want to turn it back on for testing?
[22:12:37] <janrinok> NCommander: OK I understand it now. It make sense. However, is all this necessary? You have a huge chunk of work on your plate writing this.
[22:12:47] <paulej72> there is something else that is not working that we need to trace.
[22:12:51] <NCommander> janrinok, justification on incorperation on the United States :-/
[22:13:07] <paulej72> bytram: yes I can turn it back on give me a sec
[22:13:12] <bytram> k
[22:13:15] <NCommander> janrinok, I challenge anyone to prove that their country had strong protections, and then provide research into legal
[22:13:31] <NCommander> janrinok, I'm not thrilled to write this, but I feel its required for transparency, and the "put your money with your mouth is" argument
[22:13:49] <NCommander> But I was to point to this, and say "Yes, the United States has problems, but we get a lot being here"
[22:13:57] <paulej72> bytram: try it now
[22:14:07] <bytram> k, just a sec
[22:14:10] <NCommander> janrinok, I'm also using this to research specific state laws to figure out which state in which to incorperate with
[22:14:32] <janrinok> OK, but I agree with your summary - you have more protections than anywhere else that I can quote. There may be somewhere, but I do not know it.
[22:14:33] * NCommander notes he could incorporate us without doing this; thats true, and we'd likely not loose the community over it, but I feel that we need to justify it
[22:14:45] <NCommander> janrinok, a lot of people *don't*
[22:14:58] <NCommander> Or I need to justify it
[22:15:11] <janrinok> NCommander: np - I can see why you are doing it, and I admire you for it. But it is no small task...
[22:15:44] <NCommander> janrinok, nothing worth doing is :-)
[22:15:54] * NCommander is going to try and get these court cases summarized today
[22:16:17] MrBluze|zzzz is now known as MrBluze|afk
[22:16:18] <NCommander> I'm fairly sure this is going to be 30k words long before I'm done with it ._.;
[22:16:27] <janrinok> The US actually does specify the protections that citizens have, where most other countries are not quite that specific. It gives them a bit of wiggle room when they need it.
[22:16:42] * NCommander nods
[22:16:57] * NCommander is trying to protect us from people saying we didn't do due dilligance
[22:17:26] <paulej72> bytram: need to let slash update the cache first. still getting old code
[22:17:54] <bytram> k. also wondering if the HTTP headers need to be updated? ...
[22:18:08] <bytram> Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
[22:18:29] <bytram> that's from the POST, there's no charset specified.
[22:24:02] FoobarBazbot is now known as FoobarBazbot|afk
[22:24:20] <bytram> NCommander: looking good, so far... do you want typos? Minnipalas s/b Minneapolis
[22:28:26] <NCommander> bytram, feel free to edit :-)
[22:28:58] <janrinok> I didn't know if there really was a place called Minnipalas!
[22:29:12] <NCommander> paulej72, on the fix list, any chance you want to try wrestling sphinx?
[22:29:17] <NCommander> I'd love it if the internal search worked fully
[22:29:47] <paulej72> NCommander: not sure. Will need to look at it some more
[22:29:55] -!- Cyprus [Cyprus!~Cyprus@68.63.ljr.ppx] has joined #staff
[22:30:02] <janrinok> As an editor I know how hard it is to see one's own mistakes.
[22:32:24] <bytram> NCommander: Near vs Minnesota... was that the *US* Supreme Court?
[22:35:51] <NCommander> bytram, it was :-)
[22:36:15] <NCommander> bytram, I'm working through Times v. US right now, which affirmed Near v. Minnesota, and provided an actual test for prior restraint
[22:36:44] <bytram> thought so, but wanted to be sure. I once lived in a state that had a supreme court... made things *confusing* unless expressly spelled out.
[22:37:09] <NCommander> bytram, New York does as well. I need to specify that in the summary that some states have supreme courts, and there's a distinction
[22:37:29] <bytram> you did! =)
[22:37:57] * NCommander feels that this is also a good excerise to provide confidence to the (US based) editors
[22:37:57] <bytram> ==> For the most part, states such as New York and California operate on the concept of a district court and and appellate court (sometimes referred to as a supreme court, such as the New York Supreme Court).
[22:38:02] <NCommander> On what they can and can't do
[22:38:20] <NCommander> bytram, heh, that's actually inaccurate. New York has District -> Appeals -> Supreme
[22:38:23] <bytram> NCommander++ # Simply Brilliant!
[22:38:23] <PoeticWarlord> karma - ncommander: 12
[22:38:44] <bytram> I'll let u fix thaa 1
[22:38:46] <bytram> I'll let u fix that 1
[22:38:53] <NCommander> The strongest defense against the chilling effect is the truth
[22:39:40] <bytram> C O O L !!! ;^)
[22:41:56] FoobarBazbot|afk is now known as FoobarBazbot
[22:42:33] <paulej72> SCOTUS
[22:42:43] <NCommander> bytram, when I'm done, I want FunPika to go through, and add [citation needed] everywhere
[22:42:48] <NCommander> And help me write the biblography
[22:42:56] * NCommander is putting that college education for use for a change
[22:43:05] <bytram> here's one citation... not sure where to put it in: https://en.wikipedia.org
[22:43:29] <NCommander> bytram, I don't really get how wikipedia's citations work. I got FunPika to install the citation module, but I don't get the syntax
[22:43:44] <NCommander> New York Times Co. v. United States (1971)
[22:43:45] <NCommander> Decided in: US Supreme Court
[22:43:45] <NCommander> Holding: Prior restraint requires proof of "grave and irreparable" damage
[22:43:54] * NCommander notes this is perhaps one of my favorite cases
[22:44:07] <bytram> can't say that I do, either... would have to look at a page that *already* had it, and clone from there.
[22:44:40] <FunPika> the cite extension should work by using <ref>whatever the citation is</ref> and then at the end make a references section with a <references /> tag in it
[22:45:13] <bytram> how do you match them up?
[22:45:31] <NCommander> FunPika, seems easy enough. I'm still going to need someone to go through and find missing citations (half the stuff in here is direct quotes and states what its citing)
[22:49:31] * NCommander is trying to figure out how to best summarize the Pentagon Papers case
[22:54:47] <bytram> NCommander: just finished a quick pass through it. need to head out for a couple hours. Good Luck!
[22:55:14] bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[22:56:06] <NCommander> Bytram|away, thanks
[22:56:32] <NCommander> Slowly coming together
[22:58:17] <janrinok> I must also be going - its getting late here. Have a good one!
[22:58:26] <NCommander> janrinok, you too
[22:59:12] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]
[22:59:53] <Bytram|away> paulej72: utf-8 not all there yet... see: http://dev.soylentnews.org vs original at: https://en.wikipedia.org
[22:59:55] -!- FunPika has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:00:03] <Bytram|away> gotta run! good luck everybody!!!!!!!!!
[23:01:28] -!- Cyprus has quit []
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[23:09:24] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[23:10:45] * NCommander waves to MrBluze
[23:10:51] <MrBluze> hey NCommander
[23:10:58] <MrBluze> how u doing
[23:11:40] <NCommander> MrBluze, writing :-)
[23:11:58] <MrBluze> wachu writing?
[23:12:12] <NCommander> MrBluze, http://wiki.soylentnews.org - specifically summarizing court cases that define freedom of press and speech in the United States
[23:12:55] <MrBluze> ooh okay
[23:13:58] <MrBluze> other sites that fell into controversy survived by relocating servers
[23:14:08] <MrBluze> not that we are going to be controversial or anything
[23:14:18] <NCommander> MrBluze, I'm aware, but I rather stand and fight if it comes to that
[23:14:25] <NCommander> MrBluze, and relocate if we fail
[23:14:49] <MrBluze> yeah
[23:14:55] <MrBluze> well US is more free than Aus
[23:15:57] * NCommander is at 2k words
[23:16:02] <MrBluze> crikey
[23:16:12] <NCommander> I'm not even a quarter done
[23:16:13] <NCommander> Or started
[23:16:17] <MrBluze> thing is though freedom in US is on everything BUT what matters most
[23:16:26] <NCommander> MrBluze, disagree on that.
[23:16:35] <MrBluze> well it is in Aus
[23:16:45] <NCommander> MrBluze, I'm going to build that case, and with luck, you'll agree w/ me that US is pretty free, just not perfect
[23:16:50] <MrBluze> lol okay
[23:17:30] <MrBluze> what I learnt in my travels is that people who complained about lack of freedom to me were trying to speak out about things I had never heard of
[23:17:45] <MrBluze> .. so I thought, how come I didn't know abut THAT
[23:17:46] <MrBluze> etc
[23:18:05] <MrBluze> it's not a prison until you try the door
[23:18:21] <MrBluze> incidentally, UID > 4000
[23:18:34] <MrBluze> !current-uid
[23:18:35] <PoeticWarlord> The current maximum UID is 4002, owned by multisync
[23:20:08] <MrBluze> OTOH people who go on about some extremism get no say until they become useful, then suddenly they are seen marching the streets and getting heaps of media attention
[23:28:29] <NCommander> MrBluze, pretty much
[23:28:35] * NCommander is trying to be ration on this
[23:31:24] <MrBluze> yeah it's a threat analysis for a news aggregation site
[23:31:27] <MrBluze> not for a world domination plan
[23:41:59] <NCommander> MrBluze, well, I plan to dominate the world :-)
[23:42:06] * MrBluze laughs
[23:42:12] <NCommander> At least in terms of lpress
[23:42:21] <MrBluze> yep
[23:42:23] * NCommander notes he wants to call our NFP LibreNews Foundation
[23:42:32] <MrBluze> that sounds good
[23:42:44] * NCommander cracks the whip against himself
[23:43:08] <MrBluze> did u buy those domains?
[23:44:01] <MrBluze> 'cause librenews is taken
[23:52:34] <MrBluze> back soon .. out for a couple of hours
[23:59:31] <NCommander> MrBluze, well fuck
[23:59:35] <NCommander> I didn't check
[23:59:39] * NCommander just googled