#staff | Logs for 2014-03-19
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[01:02:30] <NCommander> !quote
[01:02:30] <Bender> quote <ID/search string>
[01:02:33] <NCommander> !quote NCommander
[01:02:33] <Bender> Quote 0 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[01:02:37] <Bender> Also in quotes: 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 37, 42, 43, 46, 52, 53, 54, 55
[01:03:03] <NCommander> !quote 2
[01:03:03] <Bender> Quote 2 - <NCommander> mattie_p: because I've been riding you like a cheap slut and think you could use some downtime?
[01:03:07] <NCommander> !quote 5
[01:03:07] <Bender> Quote 5 - <NCommander> Cats go physco when you light them on fire
[01:03:24] <NCommander> !quote 7
[01:03:24] <Bender> Quote 7 - <NCommander> I SHALL SMOOTHER THEM WITH PAPERWORK
[01:03:42] <NCommander> !quote 8
[01:03:42] <Bender> Quote 8 - <NCommander> shit
[01:03:44] <NCommander> !quote 9
[01:03:44] <Bender> Quote 9 - <NCommander> !grab NCommander
[01:03:47] <NCommander> !quote 10
[01:03:47] <Bender> Quote 10 - <NCommander> You know, I noticed most of my quotes have to do with mattie_p. I smell the start of a wonderful bromance.
[01:10:01] -!- FunPika has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[01:11:01] <paulej72> I believe that there may be a dup of quote 8
[01:12:06] <NCommander> paulej72, eh, I say shit a lot
[01:12:23] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[01:12:23] <Bender> Added quote 58
[01:12:48] <paulej72> !quote 9
[01:12:48] <Bender> Quote 9 - <NCommander> !grab NCommander
[01:12:55] <paulej72> !quote 10
[01:12:55] <Bender> Quote 10 - <NCommander> You know, I noticed most of my quotes have to do with mattie_p. I smell the start of a wonderful bromance.
[01:13:03] <paulej72> !quote 11
[01:13:03] <Bender> Quote 11 - <stderr> NCommander: No, you shall only do me once... But do me right... Not: <NCommander> !todo stderr -> stderr_dk
[01:13:09] <paulej72> !quote 12
[01:13:10] <Bender> Quote 12 - <NCommander> mattie_p, true
[01:13:15] <paulej72> !quote 13
[01:13:15] <Bender> Quote 13 - <NCommander> Right, next on the TODO list: personalities for the staff
[01:13:20] <paulej72> !quote 15
[01:13:20] <Bender> Quote 15 - <NCommander> xlefay, somehow, this is your fault. I dunno why it is, but it is ...
[01:13:36] <paulej72> !quote 17
[01:13:36] <Bender> Quote 17 - <NCommander> You know, I can threaten the editoral staff with !quote 1
[01:13:46] <paulej72> !quote 18
[01:13:46] <Bender> Quote 18 - <NCommander> xlefay, meh, honestly, I hope no one reads my emails so I can pretend that we have agreement and push through whatever it is I want with no discussion what's so ever.
[01:13:55] <paulej72> !quote 20
[01:13:55] <Bender> Quote 20 - <drcoolbp|afk> nice to see some official discussion in here finally
[01:14:00] <paulej72> !quote 21
[01:14:00] <Bender> Quote 21 - <NCommander> I thought we were talking about intellectual masturbation
[01:14:04] <paulej72> !quote 22
[01:14:04] <Bender> Quote 22 - <NCommander> I need to be less quoatable
[01:14:13] <paulej72> !quote 25
[01:14:13] <Bender> Quote 25 - <NCommander> drcoolbp, I'll write a 20k email saying why we must not be funny, how we must not be funny, and why funniness is bad, then FatPhil will destroy it all in a single paragraph
[01:14:19] <paulej72> !quote 26
[01:14:19] <Bender> Quote 26 - <xlefay> Please, let's not.
[01:14:32] <paulej72> !quote 27
[01:14:32] <Bender> Quote 27 - <NCommander> I'm feeling a bit castrated here
[01:14:36] <paulej72> !quote 28
[01:14:36] <Bender> Quote 28 - <NCommander> xlefay, someone hasn't been inducted to the world of my little pony :-P
[01:14:40] <paulej72> !quote 29
[01:14:40] <Bender> Quote 29 - <NCommander> mattie_p, argh, you had to introduce facts into this!
[01:14:45] <paulej72> !quote 30
[01:14:45] <Bender> Quote 30 - <NCommander> mattie_p, well, that's why its a secret test of character. If it was a public test of character, it wouldn't be super useful :-P
[01:14:54] <paulej72> !quote 31
[01:14:54] <Bender> Quote 31 - <NCommander> I realize mattie_p might have been a nice looking private, but that was a long time ago.
[01:14:58] <paulej72> !quote 32
[01:14:59] <Bender> Quote 32 - <xlefay> not to mention the amount of paperwork, did they hire NCommander for that?
[01:15:04] <paulej72> !quote 33
[01:15:04] <Bender> Quote 33 - <NCommander> mattie_p, you know, if you were in the military, I'm honestly shocked your bitch about my emails. I'm no where as verbose as the Army Field Guide to Zipping Up Your Shorts (TRM-001-Revsion7)
[01:15:08] <paulej72> !quote 34
[01:15:08] <Bender> Quote 34 - <xlefay> there's a guide for that?
[01:15:12] <paulej72> !quote 35
[01:15:12] <Bender> Quote 35 - <NCommander> Uh oh
[01:15:17] <paulej72> !quote 36
[01:15:17] <Bender> Quote 36 - <LaminatorX> Does it know perl?
[01:15:27] <paulej72> !quote 37
[01:15:27] <Bender> Quote 37 - * NCommander uses nail polish remover to erase mattie_p's pubic face
[01:15:33] <paulej72> !quote 38
[01:15:33] <Bender> Quote 38 - <mattie_p> no grabsies
[01:15:39] <paulej72> !quote 39
[01:15:39] <Bender> Quote 39 - <stderr> xlefay: Those wars would be fought on the bitfields...
[01:15:44] <paulej72> !quote 40
[01:15:44] <Bender> Quote 40 - <FatPhil> janrinok: not 100% sure what you mean by "what happened to Khyber" - he got wasps in his underpants, I think, that's all
[01:15:49] <paulej72> !quote 41
[01:15:49] <Bender> Quote 41 - <audioguy> With no errors, it would not be credible as coming from this site.
[01:15:55] <paulej72> !quote 42
[01:15:55] <Bender> Quote 42 - <NCommander> applesmasher, just make sure to wear a rubber and everything shall be forgiven
[01:16:00] <paulej72> !quote 43
[01:16:00] <Bender> Quote 43 - <NCommander> This requires drastic action. I must become unquotable.
[01:16:03] <paulej72> !quote 44
[01:16:03] <Bender> Quote 44 - <applesmasher> Oh well. At least I avoided gooserape this time.
[01:16:08] <paulej72> !quote 45
[01:16:08] <Bender> Quote 45 - <applesmasher> I'd object, but I'm too tired to lift a shovel.
[01:16:10] <paulej72> !quote 46
[01:16:10] <Bender> Quote 46 - <NCommander> xlefay, eh ... we have a divining rod, and this bit of string that mattie_p found one day
[01:16:15] <paulej72> !quote 47
[01:16:15] <Bender> Quote 47 - <applesmasher> Poor girl looks as if she's smuggling watermelons. I wonder if she's carrying twins.
[01:16:18] <paulej72> !quote 48
[01:16:18] <Bender> Quote 48 - <applesmasher> So I told him how to milk a bull, and then he didn't want to know any more. But it was too late.
[01:16:26] <paulej72> !quote 49
[01:16:26] <Bender> Quote 49 - <FoobarBazbot_> embarrabassment?
[01:16:32] <paulej72> !quote 50
[01:16:32] <Bender> Quote 50 - <matt_> stdhell, what have they done? firing paid editors?
[01:16:35] <paulej72> !quote 51
[01:16:36] <Bender> Quote 51 - <xlefay> worse, didn't provide citations where required?
[01:16:38] <paulej72> !quote 52
[01:16:38] <Bender> Quote 52 - <NCommander> stdhell, let me do you now
[01:16:43] <paulej72> !quote 53
[01:16:43] <Bender> Quote 53 - <stderr> NCommander: I see your "dpkg --get-selections" and raise with a "debconf-get-selections".
[01:16:51] <paulej72> !quote 54
[01:16:51] <Bender> Quote 54 - <NCommander> stderr, that's also sexy
[01:16:52] <paulej72> !quote 55
[01:16:52] <Bender> Quote 55 - <stderr> ... So who's with me in replacing NCommander? :-)
[01:16:56] <paulej72> !quote 56
[01:16:56] <Bender> Quote 56 - <Cyprus> evil implies malice. btrfs is more like the mad hatter. It's probably fine, just dont ask him about special dates
[01:17:18] <paulej72> !quote 57
[01:17:19] <Bender> Quote 57 - <Cyprus> taking it as a compliment regardless, i wish i was confused for smart asian programmers more often
[01:17:25] <paulej72> !quote 58
[01:17:26] <Bender> Quote 58 - <NCommander> paulej72, eh, I say shit a lot
[01:33:27] -!- FunPika [FunPika!~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #staff
[01:33:27] -!- mode/#staff [+v FunPika] by kobitch
[01:37:58] <NCommander> Email sent
[01:38:03] * NCommander waits for people to touch that handgrenade
[01:38:14] <xlefay> sent to, all of us?
[01:39:01] <NCommander> xlefay, to the list
[01:39:13] <NCommander> "On the topic of incorperation"
[01:40:01] <xlefay> seeing the mail. I'm going to do one "thing I won't describe for your sake" and then back to sleep for a bit, I'll read the mail when my eyes are fully open
[01:41:22] <NCommander> !grab xlefay
[01:41:22] <Bender> Added quote 59
[01:41:37] <NCommander> xlefay, and uh .. TMI. I have an active imagination, and what it came up is probably worse than reality.
[01:41:38] <xlefay> I didn't mean what you thought I mean, I think
[01:41:53] <NCommander> !grab xlefay
[01:41:53] <Bender> Added quote 60
[01:42:05] <xlefay> i meant smoke a [three letter word]
[01:42:24] <NCommander> OH!
[01:42:32] <FoobarBazbot_> ham
[01:42:45] <FoobarBazbot_> Don't worry NC, he's going to smoke a ham
[01:42:45] <NCommander> MD5?
[01:42:56] <xlefay> SHA1, you insensitive clod!
[01:43:11] <NCommander> That's some hashed pork
[01:43:17] * FoobarBazbot_ notes there are truly only three letters in SHA1
[01:43:27] <xlefay> MD5.... maaaan, that's so 2005.
[01:43:34] <xlefay> FoobarBazbot_: =)
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[01:43:45] <NCommander> xlefay, could be worse, could be MD4
[01:43:50] <xlefay> :o
[01:43:58] <NCommander> I mean, if we're really retro, you could have demanded we use POP2 instead of POP3 or IMAP4
[01:44:03] <xlefay> Ok I'm going to smoke that cig now ;-)
[01:44:06] <xlefay> !grab NCommander
[01:44:06] <Bender> Added quote 61
[01:44:08] <xlefay> LOL
[01:44:35] <xlefay> Also, for first april, I thought we might just rename the network services ;-) "nickserv" becomes "memoserv", etc.....
[01:44:48] <xlefay> "1 April, confuse the shit out of yo day"
[01:46:49] <paulej72> NCommander: did you see the emails from slashd saying it is having issues with tag box.pl
[01:47:04] <NCommander> paulej72,
[01:47:09] <NCommander> yes
[01:47:35] <paulej72> do we need to look into this?
[01:51:20] <NCommander> paulej72, its been doing that for awhile so yes but not uber critical
[01:52:01] <paulej72> NCommander: thanks for the info.
[01:52:17] <NCommander> !todo
[01:52:17] <Bender> todo for ncommander: 1) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 2) quit smoking 3) look at rewiring pollbooth for SERIOUS votes 4) write up YAFAP for nethack 5) write quick "what we're doing email" to staff-list 6) find volunteer who may be willing to work on mod_perl rework effort 7) discuss staff meeting on staff mailing list 8) poof development server into - 1 more
[01:52:27] <NCommander> !todo-done 5
[01:52:27] <Bender> 1 item deleted
[01:52:30] <NCommander> !todo
[01:52:31] <Bender> todo for ncommander: 1) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 2) quit smoking 3) look at rewiring pollbooth for SERIOUS votes 4) write up YAFAP for nethack 5) find volunteer who may be willing to work on mod_perl rework effort 6) discuss staff meeting on staff mailing list 7) poof development server into existence 8) clean production database of unused vars/tables - 1 more
[01:52:35] <xlefay> !more
[01:52:35] <Bender> from Tags/FIrehose/Achievements 9) give god bits to paulej72
[01:52:55] <NCommander> !todo-done 9
[01:52:55] <Bender> 1 item deleted
[01:54:45] * xlefay notes regarding #7.. we could just install Gentoo ;-)
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[01:56:09] * NCommander cuts xlefay's balls off
[01:56:27] <xlefay> I would prefer Debian or Ubuntu though
[01:56:52] <xlefay> CentOS is nice but the lack of things in the repos is getting more frustrating depending on what one needs
[01:57:19] * NCommander won't say "I told you so"
[01:57:20] * NCommander ducks
[01:58:01] <xlefay> I'm really curious to see what kind of performance the containers have
[01:58:11] * xlefay really hopes they'll be like fbsd's jails
[01:58:57] * xlefay notes with some luck, I'll get money from my gov't tomorrow..
[01:59:09] <NCommander> xlefay, which government is that?
[01:59:14] <xlefay> hopefully the 24th too otherwise I'm officially fuckt
[01:59:17] <xlefay> Dutch gov't
[02:00:11] <matt_> hi NCommander, just read your staff email. Seems to hit all the important points.
[02:01:01] <NCommander> xlefay, smoke a joint and stop caring
[02:01:12] <xlefay> NCommander: if only I could ;)
[02:01:16] <NCommander> matt_, yeah, I wanted to go into more detail, but 3k words takes a lot of effort
[02:01:30] * NCommander hears mattie_p exhale in relief
[02:01:36] <xlefay> ^ not to mention the follow up mails
[02:02:11] <xlefay> nah, I'm glad we're moving on in this front
[02:02:33] <matt_> NCommander, regarding the plan for moving forward with incorporation, have you had any thoughts on that?
[02:02:57] <xlefay> Looks like things are getting off their feet, can't express how relieved I am - it's like everything's going the way it should (regarding SN) ;-)
[02:03:08] <NCommander> xlefay, shh, you'll jinx it
[02:03:21] <NCommander> matt_, plenty of thoughts, need time to get them on paper
[02:03:36] <xlefay> NCommander: oh, no-one can stop us now ;-)
[02:04:01] <NCommander> !grab xlefay
[02:04:01] <Bender> Added quote 62
[02:04:13] <xlefay> Also, if anyone has suggestions regarding personal finances app that work well on Linux, please spam me with them.
[02:04:15] <NCommander> I'm saving that quote for when shit hits the fan so I can show it instead of saying "I told you so"
[02:04:20] <NCommander> xlefay, gnucash
[02:05:19] <xlefay> I've used that one before, I'm actually looking for something I can hook up to my bank account and just fetch that shit
[02:05:26] <xlefay> gnucash didn't work with that ;'(
[02:05:58] <NCommander> xlefay, most banks don't have a public API
[02:06:08] <matt_> NCommander, understood. any thoughts about my email... reasonable/unreasonable? (details appreciated :)
[02:06:08] <xlefay> I have to call my bank letting them know I'm no longer a student and get credit on my regular account.
[02:06:11] <NCommander> xlefay, what I used to do is download the expenses in quicken format and manually import
[02:06:31] FoobarBazbot is now known as FoobarBazbot|afk
[02:07:04] <xlefay> I see, I might be able to do something like that similarly. I tested that once but didn't get that far because my bank provided formats accept the ones the program accepted (not sure which program it was in this case though) I'll have to look into it when I wake up
[02:07:47] <xlefay> I'll be back later, going to sleep a bit more and then look into postfix's config, checkout gnucash/alternatives and crap again. Thanks ;-)
[02:12:42] * NCommander waits for feedback
[02:14:27] <matt_> NCommander, did you see my last question (6 lines up)?
[02:14:47] <NCommander> matt_, I have, but I need to go through line by line and disect it
[02:14:54] <NCommander> matt_, I'm still fighting a lot of jetlag :-/
[02:16:42] <matt_> NCommander, ok. (actually ony 9 lines in the "plan" section, so hopefully shouldn't take too much dissection :-)
[02:16:58] <NCommander> matt_, ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[02:20:53] <matt_> NCommander, for what it's worth, I didn't receive a single negative email response from the staff. (ok, I actually didn't receive a single email response of any kind from the staff). but I choose to interpret that to mean that noone found any major problems :-)
[02:21:34] <NCommander> matt_, we don't usually inform the recieptant of pitchforks that they're coming :-)
[02:22:00] * matt_ dons pitchfork-proof armor
[02:22:40] * NCommander stabs a pitchfork through matt_
[02:22:50] <NCommander> matt_, I think you need a refund, it didn't survive the proof test.
[02:25:00] * matt_ is hoping that there won't be too many more emails with "I know a lot of you have concerns with Matt"... ;)
[02:25:40] <NCommander> matt_, I'm pretty sure I extinished most of the torches and pitchforks
[02:25:45] <NCommander> Unless they're planning to run me out
[02:25:57] <matt_> NCommander, oh, good.
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[05:06:46] <mrcoolbp> mattie_p are you on break right now?
[05:06:59] <xlefay> NCommander: you got a sec for a quick question?
[05:07:33] <xlefay> Do I get to chose the OS for testing for that VM?
[05:07:39] <xlefay> e.g. I first want to try some stuff locally
[05:31:23] <mattie_p> back on duty if you need me
[05:51:40] <mrcoolbp> !quote NCommander
[05:51:40] <Bender> Quote 0 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[05:51:44] <Bender> Also in quotes: 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 37, 42, 43, 46, 52, 53, 54, 55, 58, 61, 62
[05:51:51] <mattie_p> rofl lol
[05:51:52] <mrcoolbp> holy bejeezus
[05:52:04] * mrcoolbp is afraid to do it
[05:52:08] <mrcoolbp> dare me?
[05:52:13] <mattie_p> yeah
[05:52:16] <mattie_p> do it
[05:52:19] <mrcoolbp> !quote 2
[05:52:19] <Bender> Quote 2 - <NCommander> mattie_p: because I've been riding you like a cheap slut and think you could use some downtime?
[05:52:22] <mrcoolbp> !quote 5
[05:52:22] <Bender> Quote 5 - <NCommander> Cats go physco when you light them on fire
[05:52:25] <mrcoolbp> !quote 6
[05:52:26] <Bender> Quote 6 - <stderr> mattie_p: OMFSM! I'm so tired I misread that as "mattie_p pees in NCommander's direction :)"...
[05:52:27] <mrcoolbp> !quote 7
[05:52:27] <Bender> Quote 7 - <NCommander> I SHALL SMOOTHER THEM WITH PAPERWORK
[05:52:30] <mrcoolbp> !quote 8
[05:52:30] <Bender> Quote 8 - <NCommander> shit
[05:52:32] <mrcoolbp> !quote 9
[05:52:32] <Bender> Quote 9 - <NCommander> !grab NCommander
[05:52:34] <mrcoolbp> !quote 10
[05:52:34] <Bender> Quote 10 - <NCommander> You know, I noticed most of my quotes have to do with mattie_p. I smell the start of a wonderful bromance.
[05:52:36] <mrcoolbp> !quote 11
[05:52:37] <Bender> Quote 11 - <stderr> NCommander: No, you shall only do me once... But do me right... Not: <NCommander> !todo stderr -> stderr_dk
[05:52:39] <mrcoolbp> !quote 12
[05:52:39] <Bender> Quote 12 - <NCommander> mattie_p, true
[05:52:42] <mrcoolbp> !quote 13
[05:52:43] <Bender> Quote 13 - <NCommander> Right, next on the TODO list: personalities for the staff
[05:52:44] <mrcoolbp> !quote 15
[05:52:44] <Bender> Quote 15 - <NCommander> xlefay, somehow, this is your fault. I dunno why it is, but it is ...
[05:52:46] <mrcoolbp> !quote 17
[05:52:46] <Bender> Quote 17 - <NCommander> You know, I can threaten the editoral staff with !quote 1
[05:52:47] <mrcoolbp> !quote 18
[05:52:47] <Bender> Quote 18 - <NCommander> xlefay, meh, honestly, I hope no one reads my emails so I can pretend that we have agreement and push through whatever it is I want with no discussion what's so ever.
[05:52:49] <mrcoolbp> !quote 19
[05:52:49] <Bender> Quote 19 - <paulej72> Hey I read NCommander's emails, they are good bedtime reading, puts me right to sleep :)
[05:52:53] <mrcoolbp> !quote 21
[05:52:53] <Bender> Quote 21 - <NCommander> I thought we were talking about intellectual masturbation
[05:52:56] <mrcoolbp> !quote 22
[05:52:56] <Bender> Quote 22 - <NCommander> I need to be less quoatable
[05:52:59] <mrcoolbp> !quote 23
[05:52:59] <Bender> Quote 23 - <NCommander> paulej72, For the record, I would just like you to know for now and all time, fuck you, and fuck the horse you road in on
[05:53:05] <mrcoolbp> !quote 25
[05:53:05] <Bender> Quote 25 - <NCommander> drcoolbp, I'll write a 20k email saying why we must not be funny, how we must not be funny, and why funniness is bad, then FatPhil will destroy it all in a single paragraph
[05:53:07] <mrcoolbp> !quote 27
[05:53:07] <Bender> Quote 27 - <NCommander> I'm feeling a bit castrated here
[05:53:08] <mrcoolbp> !quote 28
[05:53:08] <Bender> Quote 28 - <NCommander> xlefay, someone hasn't been inducted to the world of my little pony :-P
[05:53:11] <mrcoolbp> !quote 29
[05:53:11] <Bender> Quote 29 - <NCommander> mattie_p, argh, you had to introduce facts into this!
[05:53:17] <mrcoolbp> !quote 30
[05:53:17] <Bender> Quote 30 - <NCommander> mattie_p, well, that's why its a secret test of character. If it was a public test of character, it wouldn't be super useful :-P
[05:53:24] <mrcoolbp> !quote 31
[05:53:24] <Bender> Quote 31 - <NCommander> I realize mattie_p might have been a nice looking private, but that was a long time ago.
[05:53:26] <mrcoolbp> !quote 32
[05:53:26] <Bender> Quote 32 - <xlefay> not to mention the amount of paperwork, did they hire NCommander for that?
[05:53:30] <mrcoolbp> !quote 33
[05:53:30] <Bender> Quote 33 - <NCommander> mattie_p, you know, if you were in the military, I'm honestly shocked your bitch about my emails. I'm no where as verbose as the Army Field Guide to Zipping Up Your Shorts (TRM-001-Revsion7)
[05:53:33] <mrcoolbp> !quote 35
[05:53:33] <Bender> Quote 35 - <NCommander> Uh oh
[05:53:35] <mrcoolbp> !quote 37
[05:53:35] <Bender> Quote 37 - * NCommander uses nail polish remover to erase mattie_p's pubic face
[05:53:45] <mrcoolbp> there's still a bunch.......
[05:54:30] <mattie_p> 37 is my fave, I think
[05:54:43] <mrcoolbp> yes, that is a keeper
[05:55:24] <mrcoolbp> omg, I can't even read them all, eyes tearing up....
[05:55:52] <mattie_p> let's start pairing them up
[05:55:52] <mrcoolbp> !quote 42
[05:55:52] <Bender> Quote 42 - <NCommander> applesmasher, just make sure to wear a rubber and everything shall be forgiven
[05:55:54] <mrcoolbp> !quote 43
[05:55:54] <Bender> Quote 43 - <NCommander> This requires drastic action. I must become unquotable.
[05:55:56] <mrcoolbp> !quote 46
[05:55:56] <Bender> Quote 46 - <NCommander> xlefay, eh ... we have a divining rod, and this bit of string that mattie_p found one day
[05:55:59] <mrcoolbp> !quote 52
[05:55:59] <Bender> Quote 52 - <NCommander> stdhell, let me do you now
[05:56:08] <mattie_p> !quote 37
[05:56:08] <Bender> Quote 37 - * NCommander uses nail polish remover to erase mattie_p's pubic face
[05:56:09] <mattie_p> !quote 31
[05:56:09] <Bender> Quote 31 - <NCommander> I realize mattie_p might have been a nice looking private, but that was a long time ago.
[05:56:11] <mrcoolbp> !quote 53
[05:56:12] <Bender> Quote 53 - <stderr> NCommander: I see your "dpkg --get-selections" and raise with a "debconf-get-selections".
[05:56:16] <mrcoolbp> !quote 54
[05:56:16] <Bender> Quote 54 - <NCommander> stderr, that's also sexy
[05:56:18] <mrcoolbp> !quote 55
[05:56:18] <Bender> Quote 55 - <stderr> ... So who's with me in replacing NCommander? :-)
[05:56:19] <mrcoolbp> !quote 58
[05:56:19] <Bender> Quote 58 - <NCommander> paulej72, eh, I say shit a lot
[05:56:22] <mrcoolbp> !quote 61
[05:56:22] <Bender> Quote 61 - <NCommander> I mean, if we're really retro, you could have demanded we use POP2 instead of POP3 or IMAP4
[05:56:25] <mrcoolbp> !quote 62
[05:56:25] <Bender> Quote 62 - <xlefay> NCommander: oh, no-one can stop us now ;-)
[05:56:34] <mrcoolbp> go I hope I never have to do that again
[05:56:39] <mrcoolbp> god*
[05:57:22] <mattie_p> what quotes do you have in this channel?
[05:57:27] <mattie_p> !uote mrcoolbp
[05:57:32] <mattie_p> !quote mrcoolbp
[05:57:32] <Bender> No quotes found with the text 'mrcoolbp'
[05:57:40] <mattie_p> what? that's bullshit
[05:57:41] <mrcoolbp> !quote drcoolbp
[05:57:41] <Bender> Quote 20 - <drcoolbp|afk> nice to see some official discussion in here finally
[05:57:45] <Bender> Also in quotes: 24, 25
[05:57:50] <mattie_p> oh
[05:57:55] <mattie_p> a little better then
[05:57:59] <mrcoolbp> didn't I have enough in another channel?
[05:58:09] <mrcoolbp> !quote 24
[05:58:09] <Bender> Quote 24 - <drcoolbp> well I'm eating, if for 5 minutes you all could be less funny I'd really appreciate it
[05:58:11] <mrcoolbp> !quote 25
[05:58:11] <Bender> Quote 25 - <NCommander> drcoolbp, I'll write a 20k email saying why we must not be funny, how we must not be funny, and why funniness is bad, then FatPhil will destroy it all in a single paragraph
[05:58:13] <mattie_p> moar quotes everwhares
[05:58:18] <xlefay> !grab mattie_p
[05:58:18] <Bender> Added quote 63
[05:58:31] <mrcoolbp> 24 was decent
[05:58:39] <xlefay> !quote 24
[05:58:39] <Bender> Quote 24 - <drcoolbp> well I'm eating, if for 5 minutes you all could be less funny I'd really appreciate it
[05:58:42] <mrcoolbp> I was literally spitting food on the computer
[05:58:43] <xlefay> LOL\
[05:58:53] <mrcoolbp> it took some cleaning up....
[05:58:56] <mattie_p> nah, we need to grab you doing something in appropriate
[05:58:57] <mattie_p> nograb
[05:59:01] <mrcoolbp> haha
[05:59:35] <mrcoolbp> "The quote function slowly taught SoylentStaff to not drink whilst on IRC"
[06:00:00] <mattie_p> nope
[06:00:11] * mrcoolbp make another
[06:00:11] <mattie_p> hasn't taught me yet
[06:00:12] <xlefay> hmm
[06:00:49] <mrcoolbp> that's for sure
[06:01:00] <xlefay> mrcoolbp: /j ##
[06:01:07] <xlefay> we had some technical difficulties, everyone got booted..
[06:01:13] <xlefay> blame kobach, it was entirely his fault.
[06:01:26] <mattie_p> "technical difficulties" is a way of putting it, I guess
[06:01:35] <xlefay> !grab mattie_p
[06:01:35] <Bender> Added quote 64
[06:01:36] <mrcoolbp> WTF?
[06:01:41] <xlefay> mrcoolbp: everyone got booted
[06:01:50] <mrcoolbp> not ideal
[06:02:42] * mrcoolbp remebers he must write 2 important emails
[06:02:46] <mrcoolbp> BRB
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[08:55:31] * NCommander is awake now
[08:55:50] <xlefay> me too
[08:56:10] <NCommander> no one responded to my email
[08:56:36] <xlefay> Think most of us are still going to read it or reply tomorrow
[08:57:19] <xlefay> -NerdRPG- You found a 15GB hard disk! Your current hard disk is only 12GB, so it seems Luck is with you! <--- I feel so lucky having 15GB, yes you heard that right, 15GB!! of storage!
[09:16:06] <NCommander> GungnirSniper, I sent an email to the spaff mailing list w.r.t. to planes for incorperation
[09:16:07] <NCommander> !todo
[09:16:07] <Bender> todo for ncommander: 1) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 2) quit smoking 3) look at rewiring pollbooth for SERIOUS votes 4) write up YAFAP for nethack 5) find volunteer who may be willing to work on mod_perl rework effort 6) discuss staff meeting on staff mailing list 7) poof development server into existence 8) clean production database of unused vars/tables - 1 more
[09:18:09] <xlefay> I know right
[09:20:31] <NCommander> !todo-done 6
[09:20:31] <Bender> 1 item deleted
[09:20:33] <NCommander> !todo
[09:20:35] <Bender> todo for ncommander: 1) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 2) quit smoking 3) look at rewiring pollbooth for SERIOUS votes 4) write up YAFAP for nethack 5) find volunteer who may be willing to work on mod_perl rework effort 6) poof development server into existence 7) clean production database of unused vars/tables from Tags/FIrehose/Achievements
[09:20:47] <NCommander> w00t, starting to look more and more reasonable
[09:21:12] <xlefay> :P
[09:21:33] <NCommander> GungnirSniper, I've had to defer most of this since ascending as chief of the site
[09:38:38] <NCommander> Ok
[09:38:43] <NCommander> First big emails sent out
[09:38:49] <xlefay> oh god
[09:39:17] <xlefay> I see a little '1' in my taskbar... afraid to click
[09:40:14] <NCommander> xlefay, that one is short
[09:40:22] <NCommander> But its big in the sense of getting shit done
[09:40:44] <xlefay> Haha I like the reply to nr 9
[09:40:48] <NCommander> nr 9?
[09:40:55] <NCommander> Ah
[09:40:57] <xlefay> Step 0
[09:41:00] <xlefay> s/0/9/
[09:41:14] <NCommander> Actually
[09:41:16] <NCommander> That should be
[09:41:19] <NCommander> Step 9: NOT PROFIT!
[09:41:21] * NCommander ducks
[09:41:32] <xlefay> It really depends on your POV I suppose :P
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[09:41:49] <xlefay> The way I see us profiting is in the way, everything runs smoothly, the majority is happy, etc.
[09:41:56] <NCommander> xlefay++
[09:41:56] <Bender> karma - xlefay: 23
[09:42:00] <xlefay> That's real profit right there ;-)
[09:42:04] <NCommander> Indeed
[09:42:10] <NCommander> None of us are going to get rich on this enterprise
[09:42:17] <NCommander> But I'd like to at least be a confortible job for some
[09:44:34] <xlefay> Yeah I understand ;-)
[09:45:00] <xlefay> I'm going to look at the postfix config for a bit then setup an Ubuntu vm and try out those containers.
[09:45:35] <xlefay> Alrighty, good night GungnirSniper ;-)
[09:46:42] <xlefay> 09:46:35 up 99 days, 17:05, 3 users, load average: 0.28, 0.27, 0.20
[09:46:49] <xlefay> JUST A COUPLE OF HOURS!!
[09:48:08] <xlefay> I wonder if there's someway we can utilize git or something for config files.
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[09:53:45] <xlefay> The procmail via unix users is going to be difficult since we're using virtualusers hmm, I'm sure we can figure out another way for that
[09:55:33] <NCommander> xlefay, can't we just use real users :-P
[09:57:09] <xlefay> I suppose we could; but it's not like I can disable that crap now without breaking stuff. :/
[10:02:24] <xlefay> Our mail set up seems to be working without issues, the configuration is a bit messy regarding the virtual stuff. I'm going to take a look if we can integrate filtering and stuff server side without much pain.
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[14:54:15] <janrinok> hi guys
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[14:58:53] <mattie_p> hey janrinok
[15:14:07] <janrinok> mattie_p: hi, sorry I was busy editing my 3rd for today!
[15:14:29] <janrinok> How's things with you and the family?
[15:16:09] <janrinok> I didn't sleep at all well last night so decided to come online. Discovered the story in the queue regarding the virus on linux servers so I pushed it out immediately.
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[15:19:26] <janrinok> hi matt_. How's things?
[15:20:00] <matt_> xlefay, i sent an email to the staff list, but it is awaiting your approval (was 2kb over the limit). i will send in plaintext in the future, but do you want me to resend this one or will you push it through? thanks :)
[15:20:17] <matt_> janrinok, good. what's new with you?
[15:20:58] <janrinok> Just starting for today - if you discount my overnight activity due to insomnia! Other than being a bit tired - I'm OK I guess
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[15:23:39] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: did you get my memo re the update to the wiki?
[15:23:55] <mrcoolbp> checking now
[15:23:56] <janrinok> sorry, rude of me, how are you?
[15:24:03] <mrcoolbp> great! how are you?
[15:24:07] <janrinok> OK
[15:28:12] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: did you alter the wording at all?
[15:28:43] <janrinok> Yes in places, but its mainly GungnirSnipers work. Any mistakes will be mine though...
[15:29:28] <janrinok> He should get all credit - I'll take the blame for any faults. :)
[15:29:59] <mrcoolbp> I ask as it will need to be converted back to html if we throw it up as a static doc
[15:30:26] <janrinok> Where else are you planning on putting it?
[15:31:06] <mrcoolbp> It could reside there, but we could throw it up on slash, I talked to NCommander, I was thinking we could link to it from the FAQ
[15:31:15] <mrcoolbp> but we *could* just link to the wiki
[15:31:50] <janrinok> I must admit that I thought that the latter was going to be the case. Otherwise we might end up keeping 2 docs in sync.
[15:32:14] <mrcoolbp> if we did in fact link to the wiki, I'd pull that topic stuff to another page, link both from the Editors team page
[15:32:21] <janrinok> LaminatorX might want to pass his rubber stamp on it first.
[15:32:45] <mrcoolbp> he's the one working on the FAQ doc anyway, and of course I'd check with him
[15:33:20] <janrinok> Yes, I simply put it where the original doc was. It probably isn't in the best or most logical place. I've memo'd him with a link to the new doc so he should be aware of it.
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[15:34:18] <mrcoolbp> I miss those memos usually
[15:34:38] <janrinok> We'll if he appears on here I'll remind him.
[15:35:37] <mrcoolbp> well thanks for posting it up there. I have no problem with it staying there, people can comment on the discussion page, we can refine it more easily etc.
[15:35:51] <mrcoolbp> I can lock it to registered users too
[15:35:59] <janrinok> OK, sounds good
[15:36:54] <mrcoolbp> can you pull the "topic" stuff to a separate page? (link both from Editor Team page)
[15:37:18] <mrcoolbp> maybe "SiteTopics" or something
[15:37:43] <janrinok> I don't know how, but let me think about it and I'll let you know when I have a plan...!
[15:37:53] <mrcoolbp> I can do it in 2 minutes if you like
[15:38:10] <mrcoolbp> maybe 3...
[15:38:17] <janrinok> Wiki - another new subject for me, along with IRC, HTML, CSS etc
[15:38:57] <janrinok> You will do it much faster than I, but if you need someone to do it but not urgently then I will give it some thought.
[15:39:03] * NCommander feels mentally extausted
[15:39:12] <mrcoolbp> good morning mr Commander
[15:39:21] <janrinok> hi NCommander - you've already answered my first question
[15:39:29] <NCommander> I'm look like that
[15:39:37] <NCommander> *good like that
[15:39:52] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: it's easy, create new page, copy/cut text from first, paste to new page
[15:40:20] <mrcoolbp> (hint: create any new page by navigating to it as if it already existed)
[15:40:47] <janrinok> OK - I'll finish off editing this story and have a play with it.
[15:40:47] <mrcoolbp> I'm happy to do it though. Give me 3 minutes
[15:40:54] <mrcoolbp> oh okay, all yours.
[15:41:08] <mrcoolbp> I have enough edits on the wiki already
[15:41:45] <mrcoolbp> NCommander, the NFP plan is lookin pretty solid. Have we contacted EFF, SPI, and the FSF yet?
[15:42:24] <NCommander> No
[15:42:33] * NCommander isn't sure what FSF or SPI will accomplish
[15:45:26] <mrcoolbp> couldn't hurt to get advice from them...
[15:46:01] <mrcoolbp> that was our thinking anyway
[15:47:31] <matt_> NCommander, thank you for the outstanding comments on my email! I just sent a reply with edits and comments to your comments.
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[15:51:44] <mechanicjay> FunPika: I have your rights setup for file system access to the wiki -- pm you email for credentials.
[15:53:53] <mrcoolbp> matt_, the replies to replies in emails is getting confusing...
[15:54:39] <matt_> mrcoolbp, sorry about that. i guess we should make a clean version for next time...
[15:55:15] <mrcoolbp> probably, hopefully we are getting closer to a final plan
[15:55:33] <matt_> mrcoolbp, (actually, i initially sent it in a nicely-formatted html this morning, but the list has a max size of 40kb, so it got blocked :( )
[15:55:47] <mrcoolbp> no need to apologize though, just an observation
[15:56:16] <mrcoolbp> this is one of the reasons I'd like communication on slashcode, might clear some of this up
[16:01:00] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I like the "fine print" part, I was having trouble articulating that
[16:01:23] <mrcoolbp> and of course I'm willing to agree to those terms with the domain I'm suggesting
[16:02:04] <mrcoolbp> and I believe MrBluze is 100% on board with that as well (he owns around half of the domains in the "short list")
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[16:02:18] <matt_> mrcoolbp, yeah, hopefully it won't be too offputting to have something like that (the fine print) in an article/journal entry.
[16:03:48] <mrcoolbp> well before that part goes out, we might need to alter it slightly. Currently we have a short list of names that have already been "suggested" and owned by users or staff that have expressed willingness to donate (i.e. we are not asking for more suggestions at current)
[16:04:41] <mrcoolbp> I'm not against soliciting more names though
[16:04:49] <mrcoolbp> it would just take even longer
[16:05:22] <mrcoolbp> Concurrently with the NFP and business discussion what we *really* need is someone working full-time on a voting system
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[16:05:50] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: When you finish your current conversation, pse let me know. I'm not sure what I am doing on the wiki :)
[16:06:09] <matt_> mrcoolbp, oh, actually that particular fine print was only meant for suggestions for names of the nonprofit. but we could just go with NC's suggestion (i think it was "News in the Public Interest")
[16:06:30] <mrcoolbp> I know NCommander has expressed trying to rework slashpolls, some have suggested using email tokens, also others have suggested using a third party solution, I'm just not sure where we stand with that
[16:06:53] <mrcoolbp> ah, well hopefully all that text wasn't wasted...
[16:07:02] <mrcoolbp> most of it is still pertinent
[16:07:10] <mrcoolbp> anyway janrinok, what's up?
[16:07:15] * NCommander is not planning on having a vote for the NFP
[16:07:27] <NCommander> Enough to vote for the site name and drama that generates.
[16:07:27] <janrinok> I'm not sure where to create this page, or how to do it!
[16:07:47] <FunPika> stderr: Your rename on the wiki is done.
[16:07:47] <mattie_p> I think we can name the NFP ourselves, NCommander
[16:07:50] <janrinok> I cannot see any info on my wiki crib sheet
[16:07:57] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: let's go pm
[16:08:03] <janrinok> ok
[16:08:15] <matt_> NCommander, ok, that certainly simplifies things.
[16:10:51] <matt_> NCommander, oh, did you mean that you don't want to have a vote for the NFP name or that you don't want to have a vote for the NFP bylaws, as well (which would technically not be required as mentioned in email).
[16:11:59] <mrcoolbp> I think he meant just the name of the NFP itself
[16:12:20] <matt_> ok
[16:15:48] <NCommander> matt_, email fired back
[16:16:08] <NCommander> matt_, for voting, I think we're going to re-invent the US electoral college due to the laws that govern membership in a NFP itself
[16:16:09] * NCommander twiches
[16:16:53] <NCommander> matt_, the biggest problem is we can't induct everything as a member. The system would collaspe
[16:17:02] <NCommander> nor am I sure if its legal
[16:17:33] <NCommander> But we can induct elected representives of a site, the staff of a site, and the board of the NFP (which will normally abstain, but can break ties, and has veto power in specific cirmstances)
[16:17:45] <mrcoolbp> hmmm
[16:18:10] <NCommander> The system is a mix between the US sentate, and the French Estate system of old
[16:18:12] <NCommander> ^- janrinok
[16:18:27] <NCommander> The board acts as Senate Pro Templar, running day to day operations, but does not normally have a vote
[16:19:20] <NCommander> The staff of the site fills the role of the second estate, and represents the staff collectively. The site itself has direct number of representives from the community that are elected and serve terms of office.
[16:19:59] <NCommander> .voice Popeidol
[16:19:59] -!- mode/#staff [+v Popeidol] by kobitch
[16:20:15] <NCommander> Popeidol, the staff could just edit the database :-)
[16:20:32] <NCommander> Popeidol, the thing is with a NFP, there's a stupid amount of bueratic overhead
[16:20:38] <Popeidol> NCommander: I'll hold you to that.
[16:20:43] <mrcoolbp> .op
[16:20:43] -!- mode/#staff [+o mrcoolbp] by kobitch
[16:20:44] <matt_> NCommander, understood. are you planning to write the first draft of the bylaws yourself? it seems like you have a clear idea of what you are going for.
[16:20:45] <Popeidol> when it doesn't work out to the option I prefer
[16:20:46] <NCommander> Things like expenses have to be *expictlately* approved by a board
[16:21:00] <NCommander> matt_, yeah, I think so. I might hand it off for someone else to revise
[16:21:09] <FunPika> mechanicjay: Could you install ImageMagick onto services? I just tried to enable image uploads on the wiki, then ran into issues because MediaWiki depends on ImageMagick for thumbnailing.
[16:21:52] <NCommander> Popeidol, the thought here is that a site is relatively self-governing with an independent constituion, but must follow the rules set by the NFP umbrella company
[16:22:12] <matt_> NCommander, makes sense to me. the only thing that I wanted to clarify is that i think it is important to finalize bylaws before anyone officially signs up to this new entity.
[16:22:17] <NCommander> matt_, ding.
[16:22:33] <NCommander> matt_, we need the internim corperation setup, but we can setup that up as joint ownership
[16:22:35] <Popeidol> NCommander: I like the theory, and I'd love to test it out in practice.
[16:22:48] <matt_> NCommander, because the bylaws can be amended by the board, I don't think that the IRS would cause any problem with the initial ratification.
[16:23:01] <stdhell> FunPika: Thanks
[16:23:09] <NCommander> matt_, from a legal perspective, the NFP looks bog standard normal
[16:23:20] <NCommander> With slightly unusual criteria in determining member selection
[16:23:40] <matt_> NCommander, in my mind, the ideal scenario would be to get the bylaws ratified within about a month (max 2), and then get people signed up, and assets merged.
[16:23:41] <NCommander> Which is exactly the goal
[16:23:51] <NCommander> matt_, I might be able to make that happen
[16:23:59] <NCommander> matt_, we need to figure out the where bit, that's the biggest question
[16:24:25] <matt_> NCommander, then the tax-exemption application can take as long as necessary to process, and won't hold us up.
[16:24:38] <NCommander> matt_, right, we can get those taxes back retroactively as far as I understand it
[16:24:45] <NCommander> The tax-exemption is backdated, so we just need to amend returns
[16:24:56] <matt_> NCommander, Correct. Also, I saw your note on the location...
[16:24:58] <NCommander> Can't accept donations though until we're NFP blessed as we're a for profit corperation until then
[16:25:38] <Popeidol> are you registering as non profit in the US?
[16:25:46] <matt_> I have set up a Delaware corp. and it is a piece of cake. AFAIK the only thing that needs to be done differently for a nonprofit is to include specific language in the cert. of incorp. making clear the nonprofit nature of the entity.
[16:26:17] <NCommander> matt_, yeah, but is DE a good place to form a NFP? :-)
[16:26:30] * NCommander also likes the idea of having an Alaska legal address but that might be going too far
[16:26:40] <NCommander> Popeidol, there are legal reasons that we will have to be incorperated in the US no matter what
[16:26:45] <matt_> NCommander, exactly... which is why I think that the location is probably best left TBD until conferring with a lawyer.
[16:26:47] <mechanicjay> FunPika: Holy crap ImageMagick has a dependency tree as long as my....leg.
[16:27:06] <NCommander> Popeidol, the IRS doesn't recongize oversees charities very well, so if we want to take money from US citizens, we have to exist in the United States
[16:27:19] <NCommander> The nice thing is as a 501(c), we are tax-deductable, which is huge in terms of getting money in
[16:27:49] <NCommander> Popeidol, if politics change and its clear we need to abandon ship, we can incorperate a new NFP (or local equivelent), then transfer the assets
[16:27:56] * NCommander will include language in the bylaws for this possibility)
[16:28:14] <Popeidol> NCommander: I understand, it makes sense to exist as a company where the founders are
[16:28:35] <mechanicjay> FunPika: okay, give it a shot.
[16:28:36] <NCommander> Popeidol, well, we might eventually setup an oversees branch. FOr instance, I couldn't legally hire janrinok
[16:28:42] <Popeidol> NCommander: it was mostly a general inquiry as to whether it'd been decided upon yet
[16:28:50] <NCommander> Popeidol, country yes, state no
[16:29:06] <NCommander> France has some ugly rules involving citizens working for companies that are not legally represented in the European Union
[16:29:47] * NCommander notes the United States itself actually doesn't care too much where your from as long as you file US taxes
[16:29:48] <FunPika> mechanicjay: working now, thanks :)
[16:30:15] <matt_> NCommander, just to make sure we're on the same page, I think that the concept that makes most sense to simultaneously achieve both the legal "shielding" that you mentioned above and maintain a separation of assets would be for me to formalize the incorporation, then leave it to you to write bylaws, get those ratified, then merge everything together.
[16:30:21] <matt_> NCommander, make sense?
[16:30:44] <NCommander> matt_, we need to make it so there are no grounds to peice the corperate viel
[16:30:46] <NCommander> *veil
[16:30:58] <NCommander> matt_, which would be the biggest issue with a holding company
[16:31:20] <NCommander> If we get sued out of existence, I don't want anyone going down with the ship
[16:31:41] <matt_> NCommander, exactly. which is why it would be helpful for me to transfer ownership of domains/rights to the corp. so that it can be the target of any legal action, etc.
[16:31:57] <NCommander> matt_, right. I'm not exactly sure how a proto-NFP is classified
[16:32:13] <NCommander> (I know its a for-profit, but I'm not sure if it would be considered a LLC until the NFP is approved)
[16:32:24] <matt_> NCommander, I think that a C-corporation would give the most flexible. any thoughts/objections?
[16:32:30] <NCommander> matt_, C-corperation?
[16:32:47] <NCommander> Ah
[16:32:48] <NCommander> Yeah
[16:33:04] <NCommander> Lets put that in a state w/ no sales tax
[16:33:08] <matt_> NCommander, A C-corp. is generally considered the most flexible, with the most protections for the board, etc.
[16:33:11] <NCommander> As we'll have to inject liquid capital into it
[16:33:25] <matt_> NCommander, i believe that a sucessful 501(c)(3) will exempt us from sales tax.
[16:33:39] <NCommander> matt_, that could be over a year a way :-/
[16:33:48] <NCommander> matt_, we need to decide the state ASAP, then find the lawyer and CPA
[16:33:48] <matt_> NCommander, true.
[16:34:11] <Popeidol> do tax discounts apply retroactively after you've submitted the application process?
[16:34:18] <matt_> NCommander, again, i suspect that the lawyer will have some good input on the selection of the state (the CPA may as well).
[16:34:20] <NCommander> Popeidol, kinda. Its fugly
[16:34:23] <Popeidol> (I have no idea how it works in the US, but I work for a NFP here in australia)
[16:34:23] <mattie_p> should we send the email I drafted out to those sites today?
[16:34:34] <NCommander> mattie_p, I'm not sue the FSF or SPI will be much help
[16:34:42] * NCommander can actually say the FSF won't be help
[16:35:14] <mattie_p> eff tho?
[16:35:30] <NCommander> mattie_p, yeah, since we're working to campagin for techological freedom
[16:35:37] <NCommander> mattie_p, let me revise your email and get it presentable
[16:35:44] <mrcoolbp> hahaha
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[16:35:51] <mrcoolbp> !quote NCommander
[16:35:51] <Bender> No quotes found with the text 'NCommander'
[16:35:57] <NCommander> wtf?
[16:35:57] <mrcoolbp> !grab NCommander
[16:35:57] <Bender> Added quote 0
[16:35:59] <mrcoolbp> shit
[16:36:10] <NCommander> hah
[16:36:33] <mrcoolbp> sorry to interrupt...
[16:36:36] <NCommander> ?
[16:37:06] <mattie_p> NCommander if you are revising, include some of the feedback I got on that
[16:37:11] <NCommander> mattie_p, will do
[16:37:16] <mattie_p> I've been swamped this week so haven't had a chance to do too much
[16:37:29] <NCommander> mattie_p, you know, a part of me just says fuck it, and make us a for-profit. So much less paperwork, but wed likely get bought out
[16:37:44] * NCommander notes Reddit seems to be the sole exception of a site that wasn't completely wrecked by being purchased
[16:37:45] <matt_> NCommander, shall i put together a clean version of a draft journal entry based on everything discussed here, and send it to you for any final thoughts? Are you thinking Friday or so for publishing your vision article?
[16:37:53] <mattie_p> not if we decide on an ownership that won't budge
[16:38:06] <NCommander> matt_, honestly, no ffucking clue
[16:38:20] <NCommander> mattie_p, yeah, but if we're going to do that, might as well NFP, and enjoy tax benefits
[16:38:22] <matt_> NCommander, it may be difficult to maintain a large cadre of volunteers with a for-profit...
[16:38:46] <mattie_p> ^^
[16:39:11] <NCommander> that too
[16:39:13] * NCommander was just jesting
[16:39:21] <NCommander> I just dislike that NFP's are a buercatic nightmare
[16:39:29] <NCommander> Since they're aversions to traditional thinking
[16:40:01] <NCommander> But the key defining aspect of a NFP is there are no owners
[16:40:02] <mechanicjay> NCommander: That's the problem with trying to change the world -- the whole world's traditional thinking is against you.
[16:40:05] <NCommander> Which is our physically :-)
[16:40:12] * NCommander smacks himself
[16:40:16] <Popeidol> the big advantage of NFPs is you have to plough any profit directly back into things one way or another
[16:40:17] <NCommander> The owners are everyone involved w/ the site
[16:40:32] <Popeidol> also, you get serious savings everywhere if you're a registered NFP
[16:40:34] <NCommander> Popeidol, yeah. We can still pay staff which means that I can move to this full time if we're profitable
[16:40:41] <NCommander> as well as many staff
[16:40:49] <Popeidol> NCommander: you should see how cheap software licenses are as an
[16:40:51] <Popeidol> NFP
[16:40:54] * NCommander wasnt intended to take a paycheck, but honestly, this is proving to be a huge time sink
[16:40:57] <mechanicjay> NCommander: Yeah, that's sort of a dream, isn't it?
[16:41:04] <NCommander> Popeidol, .... but our software licensing costs are already zero :-P
[16:41:23] <Popeidol> NCommander: just wait until we move this baby onto ms SQL 2014
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[16:41:57] * NCommander rips Popeidol's balls off, puts his head on a pipe as a warning to the next ten generations that cheap licensing is a trick and that some "favors" come with too high of a price
[16:41:57] <mechanicjay> lol, why not just go for Oracle?
[16:42:04] <Popeidol> !grab NCommander
[16:42:08] <Popeidol> dammit bot
[16:42:11] <NCommander> Popeidol, doesn't work with /me
[16:42:31] <NCommander> mechanicjay, VA Linux tried to port Slash to Oracle. They failed.
[16:42:49] <NCommander> (then again, given that VA Linux is the one who gave us the abortion that is sourceforge's code base ...)
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[16:43:08] <mechanicjay> I didn't realize that. Was that kinda of before FOSS db's were really robust enough?
[16:43:19] <mechanicjay> Or just because they were insane?
[16:43:22] <NCommander> mechanicjay, eh, the copyrights er 2000/2001
[16:43:27] <NCommander> postgres was around, they used that for SF
[16:43:32] <NCommander> matt_, OK, so I looked a bit deeper into this just now
[16:43:37] <Popeidol> as a footnote: you also get a shittonne of free google services as an NFP
[16:43:44] <Popeidol> whether you choose to use them or not
[16:43:49] <LaminatorX> I'm guessing sexy sales reps wine&dining the execs.
[16:43:52] <NCommander> Popeidol, actually, part of the site consitution is going to define usage of outside services
[16:44:09] <NCommander> matt_, we can be a NFP pretty much from the word go. Its the tax-exempt bit that takes months
[16:44:20] <Popeidol> NCommander: I assume you'll be generally against them
[16:44:25] <NCommander> matt_, so we can have the legal framework setup really quick, its just waiting for that donate button to go up.
[16:44:29] <matt_> NCommander, exactly. the key is just putting the right language in the cert. of incorp.
[16:44:33] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: can you join us in #wiki?
[16:44:37] <Popeidol> NCommander: you also get discounted hardware from some providers, but this can all wait until you're actually an NFP
[16:44:46] <NCommander> Yeah
[16:44:51] * NCommander notes a NFP is right for this project
[16:45:09] <NCommander> And in my vision, we might have other sites under the NFP for things like US politics, which aren't tech related, BUT desire no bias reporting
[16:45:12] <NCommander> *none
[16:45:25] <NCommander> SoylentNews will be SoylentNews
[16:45:34] <NCommander> But we're setting a framework to change the world, one slash install at a time :-)
[16:45:47] <NCommander> (and many many developer tears)
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[16:47:39] * NCommander notes its a matter of determining if we're going to be board-only as a corperation (with representive sites having seats at the board), OR a seperate board and membership
[16:47:44] * NCommander somewhat likes the second one
[16:49:31] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: walk before run, unless it's essential to this initial business planning
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[16:50:09] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, it is actually
[16:50:25] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, because the certificate of incorperation is the ticket to 501(c)(3)
[16:50:28] <NCommander> Which is what we want to be
[16:50:33] <NCommander> (we can ive without, but life is uglier)
[16:50:54] <mrcoolbp> Well then, I like the idea, it's a grand vision
[16:51:22] * matt_ notes that as long as the bylaws authorize the board to make a decision, the bylaws don't have to explicity detail the actual decision itself. so, there should be plenty of flexibility to allow future adjustments, as needed.
[16:51:28] <mrcoolbp> what's the downside to just handling that with "topics" ?
[16:51:31] <NCommander> Getting to be a 501(c)(3) requires convincing the federal government that we exist for the public interest
[16:52:13] <NCommander> https://www.harborcompliance.com - you know, I'm liking the Alaska one. Thats quick turnaround
[16:52:47] <NCommander> Recruit initial directors for your nonprofit board of directors. In Alaska, directors need not be residents of the state (AS §10.20.081) and a minimum of three directors is required (AS §10.20.086).
[16:53:12] * NCommander is going to the library and see if they have a recent copy of Alaska business law
[16:53:15] <matt_> NCommander, it would be nice if we could get the 501(c)(3) under an A33 classification ("Media, Communications Organizations, Printing, Publishing"), which could help in case we ever need to rely on "freedom of the press".
[16:53:24] <NCommander> matt_, that should be the goal.
[16:53:39] <Popeidol> which state do most other non-profits incorporate
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[16:53:50] <Popeidol> they probably have a fairly good reason for it.
[16:54:01] <NCommander> Popeidol, eh, that's not really fair question. Most non-profits only exist to serve a small local community
[16:54:32] <NCommander> matt_, I'm going to go become a legal expert on this (I was a criminal justice major, and I can do a lot of ground work just by reading the actual statue, and finding the revelant case law) to try and keep our costs from going into the strasiphere
[16:54:37] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: what's the downside to just handling that with "topics" ? It seems like a waste of resources to setup tons of slash sites....
[16:54:38] <Popeidol> NCommander: I work in a local NFP, and I guarantee we would incorporate in another area if it gave us an advantage
[16:54:46] <NCommander> Popeidol, fair enough
[16:55:01] * NCommander will have everything lawyer vetted, but if I don't need a full time one, thats a massive $$$$ saving
[16:55:39] <NCommander> The biggest trick is a legal business address
[16:55:42] <NCommander> ^- matt_, thoughts?
[16:55:49] * NCommander notes thats a problem no matter where we incorperate
[16:56:29] * NCommander notes there are businesses that exist to be registered location for businesses
[16:56:58] <Popeidol> I don't suppose you can get away with a PO box?
[16:57:07] <matt_> NCommander, that can be changed in the future, so it shouldn't be a big deal. the key, I think, will be to get the bylaws drafted and ratified in a reasonable amount of time to avoid things dragging on.
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[16:57:25] <NCommander> Popeidol, no, Concept of registered agent
[16:57:31] <matt_> NCommander, I use a registered agent in Delaware for that purpose. There are many in DE.
[16:57:33] * NCommander notes thats the AK term for it, but we had it in NYS as well
[16:57:46] <NCommander> matt_, yeah ... hrm
[16:58:07] * NCommander notes if we do incorperate in a legitization heavy state, it does help with 501(c)(3) status
[16:58:17] <NCommander> Which is why you see a ton of 501(c)(3) in California for instance
[16:59:03] <NCommander> As best I can tell, the 501 process is a lot of paperwork
[16:59:16] <NCommander> Depending on where you incorperate influences where and when that paperwork is done :-)
[16:59:17] <matt_> NCommander, the lawyer will have his preferred registered agents, so I don't think that we actually need to select one ourselves
[16:59:25] <NCommander> matt_, fair enough
[16:59:42] <NCommander> So, from a legal basis
[16:59:43] <matt_> NCommander, yes, there is one huge form to fill out...
[16:59:52] <NCommander> We need a state that doesn't require in-state residents on the board
[17:00:16] <NCommander> We need something that allows for board/membership model (in accordance w/ the bylaws)
[17:00:20] <matt_> NCommander, perhaps the trickiest part of the paperwork will be the budget projections/forecasts...
[17:00:36] <NCommander> matt_, I really hope Jon's comments doesn't bite us here
[17:00:46] * NCommander doubts we'll be a 10M a year business before end of year 1 if ever
[17:01:02] <matt_> NCommander, we will basically need to estimate how much money we will take in, from what sources, and what we will spend it on.
[17:01:36] <NCommander> matt_, I think we can get some rough numbers if we do a pledge drive
[17:01:36] <matt_> NCommander, I don't know, there seem to be a lot of people in the comments who are ready to donate their bitcoins :-)
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[17:01:49] <NCommander> matt_, bitcoins are legally tricky for NFP reporting because we have to report costs in USD
[17:02:14] <NCommander> They actually would be classified as barter donations vs. currency as the regulations are setup
[17:02:18] <matt_> NCommander, I believe there is a service that allows you to accept bitcoins, and pays you in fiat currency immediately, so you never actually have to deal with them.
[17:02:29] <NCommander> matt_, a few, but that needs a lawyer check
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[17:02:38] <NCommander> I think for working out initial numbers, we need to do a pledge drive
[17:02:52] <NCommander> Get people to pledge money that will go into the site coffers upo 501(1)(3) status
[17:03:02] <NCommander> with the currency held in eschew until then
[17:03:03] <Popeidol> this...actually sounds like a kickstarter now
[17:03:15] <mrcoolbp> heh
[17:03:20] <NCommander> Popeidol, that might be the way to do this in actuallity
[17:03:30] <NCommander> Except the money has to be seperate from any of us until that 501(c)(3) kicks in
[17:03:40] <matt_> NCommander, that sounds like a good plan. we just have to be very careful not to make any vague promises, in case there is any difficulty with the application.
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[17:05:01] <NCommander> matt_, we put a two year sunset on it
[17:05:13] <NCommander> If we can't manage 501(c)(3) in two years, then we're fucked anyway
[17:05:13] <matt_> NCommander, exactly.
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[17:06:07] <NCommander> We can probably work with kickstarter or another pledge project on this
[17:06:14] <NCommander> With the fact that things have to remain in eschew
[17:06:21] <matt_> *escrow
[17:06:27] <NCommander> And we need to know if someone is a US resident/citizen for tax reasons
[17:06:35] * NCommander knows you have to report overseas crap seperately
[17:06:53] * NCommander suspects our first hirer: full time accountant :-/
[17:07:00] <NCommander> Or CPA on retainer
[17:07:22] <matt_> NCommander, very true, although that may be more of an issue from the perspective of the person donating. If we are receiving funds in the US, then we should be exempted...
[17:07:55] <matt_> NCommander, yes, I think that hosting costs will be a very small fraction of the overall expenses...
[17:08:13] <LaminatorX> Staff will be number one, surely.
[17:08:18] <Popeidol> thankfully an accountant wouldn't take more than a a few hours a week for something this size
[17:08:37] <matt_> we may need a (paid) treasurer, as well...
[17:09:00] <NCommander> Legalyl speaking, we need a chair, a treasurer, and a secetary on the board
[17:09:04] <NCommander> (they can be the same person)
[17:09:14] <NCommander> That's the definition of a board in most states
[17:09:18] <LaminatorX> (though that is poor form)
[17:09:49] <LaminatorX> Seperating those roles is a heathy check'n balance move.
[17:09:56] <NCommander> Agreed
[17:10:06] <NCommander> I'm trying to insure our asses here
[17:10:14] <NCommander> Being a NFP is a great way to get tax audited
[17:10:21] <matt_> I believe that in DE, you can have a board of 1 person. (obviously only a short-term solution for an organization of any reasonable size).
[17:10:51] <NCommander> matt_, that's true in NYS, though you're going to get a lot of odd looks if you do it
[17:11:11] <matt_> indeed :-)
[17:11:24] <NCommander> Under the NFP, we'll have the various groups of people
[17:11:31] <NCommander> board members
[17:11:46] <NCommander> members (voting representives from each site, some from staff, some elected by site communities)
[17:11:51] <LaminatorX> Our local community radio station has a board elected by the (paid) members/subscribers. It mostly works.
[17:12:06] <NCommander> employees of the NFP (our own admin), non-voting
[17:12:38] <NCommander> employees of a site (i.e., if SN hirers an editor, it gets paid from the NFP)). Non-voting unless elected to a position.
[17:13:08] <NCommander> But this actually works very well
[17:13:16] <NCommander> SN can admin itself without having to deal with any legal or finance headaches
[17:13:25] <NCommander> They get the funds to hire someone, and the NFP does all the admin legwork
[17:13:39] <NCommander> Almost complete seperation of the business and HR :-)
[17:13:51] <NCommander> oooh, HR, thats probably something we'll need
[17:13:52] <NCommander> ugh
[17:15:20] <NCommander> I think our bylaws will be able to crush a small cat by time I'm done with them
[17:16:41] <matt_> NCommander, gtg. i'll send you a clean version of the email, incorporating everything discussed.
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[17:16:56] <NCommander> matt_, cya
[17:17:06] <NCommander> Anyone else want to weigh in w their two cents?
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[17:18:59] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I like the idea of keeping the bylaws succint (as in < cat-crushing weight
[17:19:21] <mrcoolbp> but I haven't seen any drafts yet, lenght may be necessary
[17:19:38] <Popeidol> the more simple and clear they are, the less they can be misinterpreted.
[17:20:10] <Popeidol> or rather the more they can be misinterpreted, but the person running the show can have their own interpretation
[17:21:40] <mrcoolbp> right...
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[18:54:46] <mrcoolbp> Alright guys I gotta run to work, later
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[19:49:32] <NCommander> http://soylentnews.org
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[19:52:48] <mattie_p> looks good
[19:59:42] <janrinok> NCommander: makes sense and says the right things.
[20:00:27] * NCommander notes making sense seems to be the only thing I'm good at >.<;
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