#editorial | Logs for 2020-04-05
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[00:33:42] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: wb!
[00:33:51] <AzumaHazuki> thanks
[00:33:58] <AzumaHazuki> all minty fresh :3
[00:34:06] <Bytram> feel bettah?
[00:34:51] <AzumaHazuki> less gross, yes
[00:34:55] <AzumaHazuki> still aching
[00:35:58] <Bytram> chromas: NoScript filtered a potential cross-site scripting (XSS) attempt from [https://chromas.0x.no]. Technical details have been logged to the Console.
[00:36:13] <Bytram> Do you do any stretching exercises?
[00:36:33] * Bytram notes he does far too little stretching, himself.
[00:36:44] <AzumaHazuki> i do some, yes. they hurt now ><
[00:36:56] <Bytram> Must be working!
[00:36:58] <AzumaHazuki> i got insoles for my shoes today which may help some
[00:37:05] <Bytram> good for you!
[00:37:17] <Bytram> Lemme guess, tile floors?
[00:37:57] <Bytram> A pair of good, supportive, lightweight shoes are a wonderful thing!
[00:38:14] <Bytram> That, and good socks, too.
[00:38:59] <chromas> Bytram: Probably the shiny new cert maybe
[00:39:02] <Bytram> Working retail, I found that black athletic socks were much more comfortable than the pricey, dressy kind I was prolly supposed to wear.
[00:39:14] <Bytram> chromas: How do I get a reskey?
[00:40:15] <chromas> oh what triggers the alert btw?
[00:40:22] <chromas> Bytram: check the box on the first form
[00:40:22] <Bytram> Oh, do I have to enable javascript?
[00:40:25] <chromas> near the bottom
[00:40:27] <chromas> no
[00:40:51] <Bytram> Put url into upper text box, clicked "Soy preview"
[00:41:00] <chromas> I think the only place I have js is on the feeds page, which is used to load articles in place of the feed summaries
[00:41:13] <Bytram> I'm starting here: https://chromas.0x.no
[00:41:13] <systemd> ^ 03Soysub
[00:41:28] <Bytram> Ctrl+F5 for brandy-new page.
[00:42:00] <chromas> There shouldn't be a soy preview button there
[00:42:20] * Bytram pastes "https://hackaday.com/2020/04/04/typing-by-slamming-your-laptop-closed-repeatedly/" into "Links & text" field.
[00:42:33] <chromas> But if you check "Acquire reskey" then the script will get one from the sn api while it scrapes the article
[00:42:34] <Bytram> Scraper is "upstart"
[00:42:42] * Bytram clicks "Start"
[00:42:58] <Bytram> not yet
[00:43:10] <Bytram> text at bottom of screen says: 🍪 User name is stored client-side in a cookie and not on the server.
[00:43:24] <Bytram> now /me clicks "Start" button
[00:44:29] <Bytram> Sees screen update as expected...
[00:45:03] <Bytram> See story rendered in top half of page, HTML in the "Article text" text entry area.
[00:45:33] <Bytram> Now I see 4 buttons:
[00:45:40] <Bytram> HTML Formatted
[00:45:46] <Bytram> Update preview
[00:45:52] <Bytram> Soy preview
[00:45:55] <Bytram> Soy Submit
[00:45:59] <Bytram> and below those
[00:46:18] <Bytram> a text field named "Reskey" which is blank
[00:46:48] * Bytram clicks "Soy preview"... boom.
[00:47:05] <Bytram> that's when I got the XSS message I entered earlier.
[00:47:09] <Bytram> ^^^ chromas
[00:47:56] <Bytram> nothing urgent, but thought you would like to know the steps to reproduce.
[00:48:50] <chromas> Might be because of the secure connection. I assume you were using http before
[00:49:02] <chromas> on my page. But now it always goes to https
[00:49:19] <Bytram> Had to accept private cert, so prolly https
[00:50:37] <chromas> Shouldn't have to anymore with the new cert
[00:50:52] <chromas> as of the other day. Probably nothin' I can do about that I guess
[00:51:16] <chromas> Unless there can be a subdomain on sn that points to my box and you hit the script with it. Dunno if that'd help
[00:51:36] <chromas> And I dunno if you'd even want it set up like that
[00:55:26] <chromas> Should I allow plain http?
[01:03:39] <Bytram> Could prolly be something with my setup. Pale Moon on WIndows, with a bunch of addons.
[01:05:33] <Bytram> Thanks for looking into it!
[01:13:10] <chromas> The add-on's probably giving you the alert, but it's probably being trigger by submitting a form from one domain to a server on another domain with different certs and stuff
[01:25:44] <Bytram> Sounds about right
[01:26:03] <Bytram> that's a bummer!
[01:28:30] <chromas> If I remove the redirect to https then It shoudl work again
[01:31:05] <Bytram> So, it would be okay to submit form info from an http page, but not from https? I don't get it.
[01:31:32] <chromas> Well it was working before, right?
[01:31:56] <chromas> Before the LetsEncrypt cert
[01:32:11] <chromas> Which also set up a redirect to force https, which wasn't set before
[01:32:41] <Bytram> never tried it until your bot went down in IRC, and I noticed your web page was still up, so that is when I tried it... and notifide you of it the next moring
[01:32:51] <chromas> Ah
[01:33:04] <Bytram> chew!
[01:33:17] <chromas> But does it chooch?
[01:33:42] <Bytram> =yt coochie coochie coochie
[01:33:43] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Charo reveals the surprising origins of "cuchi cuchi" | Larry King Now | Ora.TV (1:44)
[01:38:52] <chromas> Could put a privileged button in rehash to pull in stories by url :)
[01:39:43] <Bytram> =g Commodotize your complement site;soylentnews.org
[01:39:44] <systemd> https://soylentnews.org - Western Digital Unveils RISC-V Controller Design - SoylentNews
[01:39:53] <Bytram> =g Commodotize your complement site:soylentnews.org
[01:39:54] <systemd> https://soylentnews.org - Western Digital Unveils RISC-V Controller Design - SoylentNews
[01:40:32] <Bytram> make it easy for the community to submit stories, and we will have a better selection of stories to choose from, maybe?
[01:41:02] <Bytram> And, the better their submissions, the easier (less time-consuming) it will be for us.
[01:41:23] <Bytram> Frees up time I could better spend helping improve the site =)
[01:41:37] <chromas> Well I was thinking only for staff
[01:41:39] <chromas> :D
[01:42:11] <chromas> But if the form is on the same domain it submits to then there shouldn't be an xss issue
[01:43:25] <Bytram> yep.
[01:44:05] <chromas> although I never had a problem with it before
[01:44:21] <Bytram> Given past interactions, I think there might be a problem getting "unoffical" code to run on our servers. :(
[01:45:05] <chromas> You could always run a web server on your box
[01:45:08] <Bytram> like I said earlier, could very well be something with my setup. too.
[01:45:10] <chromas> (for your use)
[01:46:34] <Bytram> oh, got it now.
[01:46:41] * Bytram was thinking bigger.
[01:47:04] <Bytram> Also, was up way too late last night and up too early this morning.
[01:49:09] <chromas> You could have something for everyone's use but someone might get butthurt if we're officially condoning site scraping
[01:49:39] <Bytram> nod nod
[01:49:44] <Bytram> whereto? https://go.redirectingat.com
[01:49:47] <systemd> ^ 03Your online shop is here. And free.* ( https://pages.ebay.com )
[01:51:03] <Bytram> break time
[01:51:33] <Bytram> on second thought, bedtime.
[01:51:46] <Bytram> Have a great night everyone!
[01:52:04] <chromas> Bedtime's just a bigger breaktime
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[05:29:14] <Mrpg> Hi ill try to do one sub
[05:29:18] <Mrpg> G
[05:34:34] <Mrpg> No i wont sorry i need a Real keyboard
[05:35:00] <Mrpg> I lost my job!!!! Ffs
[05:36:07] <Mrpg> At least i get paid the whole month so i have like maybe 600$
[05:37:38] <Mrpg> 665$ that should last for a few months
[05:39:43] <Mrpg> And here i was practicing french...
[05:41:42] <Mrpg> Bye
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[12:46:27] <janrinok> chromas - do you want me to try accessing your server? I've forgotten the full link for the editing page though...
[12:48:03] <janrinok> I've managed to get my server set up - well, I think I have, it is still basic but I was amazed at the number of errors in the supposed 'guide to setting something up
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[15:40:38] <chromas> janrinok: sure. Test all you want.
[15:45:20] <chromas> oh, https://chromas.0x.no
[15:45:21] <systemd> ^ 03Soysub
[16:34:55] <janrinok> "Requested resource is invalid. Please return to the beginning and try again"
[16:37:47] <janrinok> x 2
[16:38:29] <janrinok> but at least it now copies my submission to the correct SN page format - which it didn't do previously
[16:44:14] <chromas> Were you using the Soy Preview button?
[16:44:28] <chromas> If so, does it work with the reskey box checked on the first page?
[16:45:33] <janrinok> yes and yes - actually displayed the reskey for me
[16:45:59] <janrinok> it just failed to submit it
[16:48:00] <janrinok> #userid
[16:48:19] <chromas> :(
[16:48:38] <janrinok> ... its what we've come to expect ;)
[16:48:47] <chromas> I wonder if using js would help
[16:49:05] <chromas> that way it's your box's ip associated with the reskey
[16:50:21] <janrinok> understood
[16:51:10] <chromas> You can try it if you want. Hit up https://soylentnews.org
[16:51:23] <chromas> Then copy the reskey value from the json block and paste it in
[16:52:43] <janrinok> Yep - but I know that works. I take it that currently it is using a reskey downloaded by your server, and then trying to use it to submit my story directly to SN?
[16:53:24] <chromas> Yes. Well the Soy Preview button should just take you to the submission preview page on sn
[16:55:13] <janrinok> it did - but wouldn't accept my submission
[16:56:45] <janrinok> In the past it didn't even get that far. It transferred me to the sn submission preview page but empty of any data. Now it successfully copies my submission across, it just rejects it when I press the 'Submit' button.
[16:57:18] <chromas> Progress++
[16:57:18] <Bender> karma - progress: 6
[16:57:46] <janrinok> I suspect that it will turn out to be something relatively minor once you solve the problem - although these things always seem major because 'it doesn't work'
[16:58:31] <janrinok> it also shows that your cert is working as expected. I have no probs getting a secure connection
[16:59:01] <janrinok> brb
[17:22:48] <chromas> Looks like I don't know how to javascript
[17:23:10] <chromas> I have a function to grab a reskey but firefox says it's not defined
[17:27:33] <janrinok> that would make sense of the error message that I received
[17:27:59] <chromas> Just now?
[17:28:10] <janrinok> no, up the page
[17:28:12] <chromas> I only added js in the last 20 or so minutes
[17:28:26] <janrinok> I'll try again.... hang on
[17:28:52] <chromas> it's saying the javascript function isn't defined. I put the button with js on the second form since the first doesn't have a place to put the reskey
[17:29:22] <chromas> So if you go here ( https://chromas.0x.no ) then there's a button to click (that doesn't work)
[17:29:23] <systemd> ^ 03Soysub
[17:30:41] <janrinok> no - the acquire reskey on that page doesn't seem to do much
[17:32:22] <chromas> That's where I'm getting the error now. In the Firefox console. It says "acquire_reskey" is not defined
[17:32:42] <chromas> So clicking the button doesn't work because it thinks there's nothing to do
[17:35:00] <chromas> Hm, changed "script type=" to "script language=" and now no error but still doesn't work
[17:35:18] <janrinok> JFI - I'm using PM with javascript permitted for your site and SN
[17:42:50] * chromas inserts coin miner
[17:43:33] <chromas> Well, I dunno what to do. No error messages but clicking the button doesn't fire the acquire_reskey() function
[17:45:21] * janrinok notes that he has now got a simple working server - but as he knows sod all about javascript probably cannot do much to help by looking at whatever code he currently has.
[17:45:42] <Bytram> Doh! *NOW* I see the "[] Acquire reskey" field on the top-most page: https://chromas.0x.no (Me had been using "Back" in my browser, replaced prior URL with a new one, and then clicking "Update preview" or, more recently, trying "Soy preview".
[17:45:42] <systemd> ^ 03Soysub
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[17:52:45] <chromas> Bytram: How're your javascript skillz?
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[17:58:15] <Fnord666> janrinok,
[17:59:06] <janrinok> here
[17:59:22] <janrinok> Fnord666, here
[17:59:23] <Fnord666> you have a working local copy of soylentnews?
[17:59:56] <janrinok> not sure I understand. I am logged on to the site but I don't have a fully installed system here
[18:01:49] <janrinok> I don't like perl, and as much of the site is written in that language it seemed pointless to keep the installation that I once had. I only download the pages that are client facing so that I can see how to interface directly to them.
[18:03:08] <Fnord666> I've been trying to get a working copy of slashcode installed and running on my local machine so that I can look at the code, muck about a bit and not break anything anywhere else.
[18:03:38] <Fnord666> basically a copy of dev.soylentnews.org if you will on a local vm
[18:03:55] <Fnord666> there was a guide but it seemed outdated
[18:04:23] <janrinok> I did that a few years ago - but only with much help from others on the staff. I also found the guide less helpful than it could have been.
[18:06:15] <janrinok> I then found that keeping it updated became a chore (less so nowadays but we used to update every 3 months) and most of it wasn't what I was interested in, so I stopped using it. I might have it on a hard drive but I don't know for sure if that is the case, or where that drive might now be!
[18:07:28] <janrinok> I think that I might be doing the guide a disservice - perhaps I just didn't know enough to do what the writer thought was obvious...
[18:07:33] <Bytram> Fnord666: Sorry for noticing late...
[18:07:47] <Bytram> yeah, that would be a TheMightyBuzzard question.
[18:08:02] <Fnord666> ok, thank you.
[18:08:34] <Bytram> I've twice downloaded the entire source tree as a zip file, and expanded it so I can look through things, locally.
[18:08:59] * Bytram has heard stories about windows vs unix and filename case-sensitivity making things "interesting"
[18:08:59] <janrinok> getting it running wasn't quite so straight forward
[18:09:03] <Fnord666> Part of me was wondering if I could automate the deployment process using some of the more modern tools
[18:09:31] <Bytram> so, unless and until I have a working linux box, code changes are at a minimum.
[18:09:48] <janrinok> we need to get back to having 3 or 4 devs working for us rather than just the one. It is a critical failure point in our current set up
[18:09:58] <Bytram> Fnord666: You would have the gratitude of many people here, myself first among them!
[18:10:37] <Fnord666> do oyu ahve a decent windows box Bytram?
[18:11:00] <Fnord666> channeling my inner cmn32480 there a bit
[18:11:51] <janrinok> brought a fond tear to my eye
[18:12:04] * Bytram has been learning as fast as he can, time permitting, but there is a HUGE boatload of supposed knowledge of how many of the critical parts(e.g. apache, cgi, mysql, nginx, etc.) are set up, how they work, where they leave their logs, and even which machines are the critical services supposed to be running and how can I check?
[18:13:18] <Bytram> I am currently using a Core 2 Duo with 6 GB of RAM. Is that decent?
[18:13:25] <Bytram> Fnord666: ^^^
[18:13:28] <janrinok> it is important to separate the 'dev' code from the hardware system supporting it.
[18:13:58] <janrinok> it will run with that, but I wouldn't expect to get any huge throughput from it
[18:14:19] <janrinok> do you want to understand the 'system' or just the code?
[18:14:27] <Bytram> Fnord666: you might want to check in with xyem and sempeross who were taking a stab at things a while back; don't know how far they got.
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[18:15:01] <Fnord666> My thought was to run virtualbox and pull in a linux .iso or three in virtual to simulate the environment
[18:15:03] <Bytram> As it is, I can bring that lappy to its knees, easily.
[18:15:32] <Fnord666> that way you can run linux on your windows box without having to dedicate something if you don't have spare hardware
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[18:15:56] <Fnord666> yeah, core2duo is a bit old speed wise
[18:16:05] <janrinok> you can run rehash, and push submissions through it to find bugs, but I don't know how much more you want to do with it
[18:16:11] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: had, waybackwhen, made up a vm that had a site "image" in it you could run, but I think it has suffered mightily under benign neglect.
[18:16:41] * Bytram hears his stomach growling, again, and decides he really should make time for breakfast.
[18:16:55] <janrinok> lol - at this time of the evening!
[18:17:11] <Fnord666> breakfast for dinner is always fashionable I say
[18:21:18] <Bytram> btw, I struggle with github's "mystery meat navigation." I do not find it to be very discoverable, never mind that git, itself, lacks a cohesive "grammar" for using it. No simple way to list/explore what tools make it up, how to invoke each one, and the process one uses to implement some standard pathways. At least I've failed to find good documentation for that... for git and for github. By comparison, take a look at the Windows LAN
[18:21:21] <Bytram> Manager. EVERYTHING starts from "NET" and can be found from there, with help available all along the way!
[18:21:34] <Bytram> biab
[18:21:35] <Bytram> afk
[18:34:25] <chromas> You can do git help $subcommand
[18:36:00] <janrinok> and there are loads of guides and explanations on the interwebs
[18:37:51] <Bytram> chromas: that's just for git.. aren't there a bunch of other git "tools" with different names than "git"? how do I find out what those are?
[18:38:43] <chromas> I guess so. Most stuff can just be done through git though
[18:39:34] <janrinok> most of them are things like git commit, git status or git add
[18:41:09] <Bytram> janrinok: yes, I am aware I am not the first to encounter this issue. But what I've seen, so far, make a lot of assumptions, and fail to make clear what happens when using different parameters. IOW, they might give examples of what happens with "git --foo stuff" and "git --bar stuff", but utterly fail to elaborate on "git --foo --bar stuff", never mind "git --foo --bar --bazz ..."
[18:42:02] <Bytram> is there anything that is needed to work with our source tree that needs something other than git?
[18:42:25] <janrinok> for basic git management, which includes clones, pulls and pushes, are far easier than the examples you have quoted. I can't think of anything else that is needed other than git
[18:42:59] <Bytram> good to know!
[18:43:04] <janrinok> at least, I manage a dozen or more repos and I haven't needed any of them
[18:44:39] <Bytram> I'm great at looking at "start-to-finish" processes over a number of different examples and elucidating what the parameters are, do, and mean... but only to the extent how complete the examples are.
[18:45:26] <janrinok> you might find that in linux you have git-core (the command line elements) and then other git-* which are to do with GUIs, or specific packages to interface to svn or whatever. Install git-all and all the essential elements are installed in one go
[18:45:57] <Bytram> What I have found, so far, is either at the NOOB level, and hides/omits important things that will be needed later, or are filled with all the gory intricacies of edge cases. :(
[18:46:39] <janrinok> the best way that I found is to start a repo and commit things to it, make changes, more commits, decide to go back to previous versions, and you will quickly learn the bits that you need.
[18:46:40] <Bytram> and... there you go! git *and* git-all and git-$foo
[18:46:50] <Fnord666> I'm in the same boat as janrinok. I've not needed anything other than the git command
[18:47:09] <Bytram> trial by barbed wire and thermonuclear devices?
[18:47:16] <Fnord666> git-all is the repository name that wll install git and any dependencies
[18:47:46] <Bytram> good too no!
[18:48:01] <janrinok> in the repos there are numerous packages that are designed to enhance git or increase its capabilities in edge cases. You do not need them! In ubuntu install git-all and all of the _essential_ bits are installed
[18:49:16] <Bytram> Be aware that I've used a few different source control systems over the years. cvs, clearcase (helped extend a test harness for them when I contracted there), and even microsoft
[18:49:45] <Bytram> tool that was a bit "touchy"... I want to say it was called sourcesafe?
[18:49:47] <janrinok> and, although it might be difficult to imagine at first, I strongly recommend that you start with the command line. You will have a better understanding of git, and any GUI will ALWAYS hide things from you.
[18:50:03] <Bytram> cli++
[18:50:04] <Bender> karma - cli: 2
[18:50:33] <janrinok> git-cvs will ease transfer of data from cvs to git - but if you never want to do that you don't need to install it
[18:51:48] <Bytram> not using it; just offered that as something I had worked with in the past.
[18:52:23] <Bytram> checkout ; do stuff ; check in
[18:52:46] <Bytram> gonna do something for investigation?
[18:53:04] <janrinok> I have just spent 2 days having a similar experience with installing an nginx server. But having finally got it working I can understand why finding the correct documentation on the interwebs can be frustrating. Use the guide from the git website and you will be golden!
[18:53:24] <Bytram> make branch ; check out ; do stuff ; check in. If it works, promote it, otherwise delete branch.
[18:53:45] <Bytram> I should git that, eh?
[18:53:55] <janrinok> exactly - you have just described the entire process that git does for you!
[18:55:01] <janrinok> and it is in a format that many people have now standardised upon, including here at SN, so you will be able to debug, fix and submit to TMB to git it reviewed in installed
[18:55:20] <janrinok> ...like what I did there?
[18:56:47] <Bytram> tmb has tried to be helpful, but he knows too much, I think. When he explains something, it seems to *me* that thoughts in his head swirl around until he finds words that can get them out of his head... as opposed to gathering and organized the thoughts so that they can be understood.
[18:56:48] <chromas> Oh, I git it
[18:56:57] <Bytram> Just a different thought process,
[18:57:09] <Bytram> but it happens to be almost opposite to my own. :(
[18:57:28] <janrinok> https://guides.github.com
[18:57:29] <systemd> ^ 03Git Handbook · GitHub Guides
[18:57:47] <Bytram> systemd++ thanky!
[18:57:47] <Bender> karma - systemd: 1
[18:58:56] <systemd> janrinok++
[18:58:56] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 92
[19:06:08] <chromas> Anti-XSS technology sure ruins everything
[19:39:40] <Bytram> chromas: Anti-XSS technology sure ruins everything... for the malware writers. Yay!
[20:22:45] <chromas> And for people writing sub-generating scripts
[20:30:43] <Bytram> sub? You mean like a hoagie?
[20:30:57] <chromas> #sammich
[20:30:57] * MrPlow whips up a last weeks chinese food sammich for chromas
[20:33:06] * Bytram has been having a hankering for hot-and-sour soup but the restaurant I like (best I've found around) was closed due to the pandemic.
[20:33:17] <Bytram> =(
[20:33:53] <chromas> At first I was confused. I was about to ask what a sour is
[20:34:11] <chromas> But then I reread and it turns out you didn't say "hotdog-and-sour"
[20:37:13] <Bytram> hot-and-saurkraut?
[20:38:50] <chromas> Gross. You might as well put horseradish in while you're at it
[20:40:31] <Bytram> hot dogs and horseradish? Hmmm.
[20:41:04] <Bytram> There's hot dogs and chile. And Hot dogs and saurkraut. Why not?
[20:41:18] <Bytram> =g sauerkraut
[20:41:19] <systemd> https://www.thekitchn.com - How To Make Homemade Sauerkraut in a Mason Jar | Kitchn
[20:41:29] <Bytram> I thought I was spelling in wrong
[20:41:59] <chromas> Gross. You might as well put parmesan cheese in while you're at it
[20:43:26] * chromas sets up macro for "Gross. You might as well put ${noun} in while you're at it"
[20:43:26] <fungus_> ACTION sets up macro for "Gross. You might as well put $pair of panties
[20:43:27] <fungus_> in while you're at it"
[20:44:05] <chromas> Now there's some bot antics we haven't seen in awhile :)
[20:44:33] <Bytram> antibiotic bots?
[20:45:58] <chromas> antibot iotas
[20:46:12] <chromas> or is that iotums?
[20:46:15] <Bytram> there might be a wee bit of truth to that
[20:46:31] <Bytram> depends on how it ioturns out
[20:47:14] <chromas> i/o tums. Chalk in, chalk out
[20:49:02] <Bytram> gigo
[20:49:46] <chromas> giraffes in gorgeous outfits
[20:51:44] <Bytram> to do some serious necking
[20:52:50] <chromas> sounds like high praise
[20:53:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, partly true but partly it's that i don't think in words unless i'm trying to express something. pure concepts rattle around in my head; no words, no pictures.
[20:58:30] <chromas> Does that discredit "If you can't explain it, you don't understand it"?
[21:11:46] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: Oh, yes. Most people do not think the way that I do! So for someone to talk to me and for me to understand it from the get-go, well... that's exceedingly rare. On that there ol' bell curve, I see you off on one end embracing purely thoughts and concepts, and I'm on the far other side seeking concrete details.
[21:12:38] <Bytram> I think it's why we work together so well. You and I have both ends covered... right to the very edge! Not much slips out from between us!
[21:13:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, partially, yes. you learn a lot about something by getting yourself to a place where you can explain it simply.
[21:13:25] <chromas> I thought calling someone a bellend was an insult
[21:14:12] <Bytram> To truly understand something, try explaining it to someone else!
[21:14:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, sometimes it's just accurate. and sometimes it's to keep a preposition from the end of a sentence.
[21:15:17] <Bytram> =g up with put
[21:15:18] <systemd> https://brians.wsu.edu - “Churchill” on Prepositions | Common Errors in English Usage and ...
[21:16:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> like "chromas is hard to put up with" vs. "chromas is hard to put up with, dickhead"
[21:16:37] <chromas> I was joking about Bytram's comment on you guys being on the ends of a bell curve
[21:16:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> naw, s/chromas/python/g
[21:20:36] <Bytram> Funny thing is, though it may take me a while, I usually *do* get it all sorted out. I find in the process I improve my skills in forming mental, multi-dimensional Venn diagrams of possibilities and hierarchies of abstractions.
[21:33:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i'm pretty anal when giving something proper thought but you take it to a higher level that's quite useful for avoiding badness
[22:44:54] <Bytram> Obliged. I'm impressed with your high-level skills and getting stuff all sorted with a plan of action, and then go DO it. Me, I can't not see holes in the truth table, permutation space, whatever you want to call it. May take me a while to permute over everything, but I have a pretty good sense when I've got things covered.
[22:45:30] <Bytram> ANd, when (not if!) I do miss something, it's usually 'cause I either was rushing or I misunderstood some classification.
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