#editorial | Logs for 2020-02-15

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[00:00:59] <Bytram> whereto? https://youtu.be
[00:01:01] <systemd> ^ 03Dance your PhD 2019 - Social experiences in larval zebrafish and their brains ( https://www.youtube.com )
[00:01:01] <exec> └─ 13Dance your PhD 2019 - Social experiences in larval zebrafish and their brains - YouTube
[00:03:45] <Bytram> whereto? https://youtu.be
[00:03:47] <systemd> ^ 03Belly 'Dance your PhD' 2019/2020: Plant disease susceptibility genes ( https://www.youtube.com )
[00:03:49] <exec> └─ 13Belly 'Dance your PhD' 2019/2020: Plant disease susceptibility genes - YouTube
[00:05:01] <Bytram> whereto? https://youtu.be
[00:05:03] <systemd> ^ 03Utilizing multispectral lidar in the detection of declined trees - Dance your PhD 2019 WINNER ( https://www.youtube.com )
[00:05:03] <exec> └─ 13Utilizing multispectral lidar in the detection of declined trees - Dance your PhD 2019 WINNER - YouTube
[00:06:31] <Bytram> whereto? https://youtu.be
[00:06:32] <systemd> ^ 03Belly 'Dance your PhD' 2019/2020: Plant disease susceptibility genes ( https://www.youtube.com )
[00:06:32] <exec> └─ 13Belly 'Dance your PhD' 2019/2020: Plant disease susceptibility genes - YouTube
[00:07:25] <Bytram> .
[00:07:29] <Bytram> whereto? https://youtu.be
[00:07:31] <systemd> ^ 03Dance your PhD 2019 - Cyanobacteria in bioenergy ( https://www.youtube.com )
[00:07:31] <exec> └─ 13Dance your PhD 2019 - Cyanobacteria in bioenergy - YouTube
[00:16:25] <Bytram> =submit https://phys.org https://phys.org
[00:16:27] <exec> ├─ 13Fires contained in hard-hit Australia state, but now floods threaten
[00:16:27] <exec> └─ 13Dams overflow as Australia braces for more floods
[00:16:28] <systemd> Submitting "Fires contained in hard-hit Australia state, but now floods threaten"...
[00:16:50] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Fires Contained in Hard-hit Australia State, but Now Floods Threaten" (39 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:40:01] <Bytram> ~arthur https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:40:03] <exec> └─ 13Sensory perception is not superficial brain work -- ScienceDaily
[00:40:04] <exec> 1043 stories loaded
[00:40:05] <exec> story not found
[00:40:13] <Bytram> =submit https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:40:14] <systemd> Submitting "Sensory perception is not superficial brain work"...
[00:40:15] <exec> └─ 13Sensory perception is not superficial brain work -- ScienceDaily
[00:40:36] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Sensory Perception is Not Superficial Brain Work" (4 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:48:24] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #editorial
[03:18:51] <Bytram> =cite https://advances.sciencemag.org
[03:18:53] <systemd> Endocannabinoid genetic variation enhances vulnerability to THC reward in adolescent female mice [open], <cite>Science Advances</cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.aay1502">10.1126/sciadv.aay1502</a>)
[03:18:54] <exec> └─ 13Endocannabinoid genetic variation enhances vulnerability to THC reward in adolescent female mice | Science Advances
[03:28:38] <Bytram> 'tis bedtime for me. Have a great night everybody!
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[08:08:56] <janrinok> Bytram - if we accept submissions that are little more that a link then why should we not accept submissions from those who are prepared to spend a few minutes on IRC? There is still value in their efforts.
[08:12:27] <janrinok> Firstly, we are getting stories from the community - and that sense of contributing can be important in giving people the feeling of being part of something, not simply being an observer. Secondly, we are publishing something that will appeal to at least one member of our community, not just a story that we think is what they want. When the vast majority of our submissions are now from upstart or Arthur the variety brought to the
[08:12:27] <janrinok> front page by others is increasingly important.
[08:15:10] <janrinok> The bots have an important role to play, but they are only tools to help us do _our_ job when there are too few submissions coming in from elsewhere. And where is the encouragement for the community to avail themselves of the tools that we provide if they see no personal benefit? They do not get Karma and the queues reflect that the submission came from a bot.
[08:17:13] <janrinok> The bots can be self defeating in some ways. The queues appear to be overfull, and there is nothing to benefit the community by using them. They become less motivated to make any effort to contribute because they do not see a need.
[08:18:41] <janrinok> We then see fewer submissions from the community and we resort more and more to bots. If I could get Arthur to put his stories directly into the HOLD queue I would do so in an instant. Many science stories are still valuable even several weeks or even months after the DOI if others have not yet heard about them.
[08:21:09] <janrinok> They would be perfect material to hold 'up one's sleeve' for when the queues are looking a bit dry.
[08:22:43] <janrinok> There are - as I write - 8 stories from Ari which do not look like they will be selected, 13 from Arthur, 7 from upstart, and 7 from named individuals but not all of which are suitable.
[08:25:02] <janrinok> That is a total of 35 submissions, 20 of which are from bots, and from the remainder about 10-12 that do not look as though anyone is interested in using them.
[08:26:32] <janrinok> encouraging community participation is a must but if they do not get recognition from using the bot then why should they bother. The queues will still appear full but it is often us doing the work again.
[10:22:42] <Bytram> janrinok: Excellent points, all of them. And ones that crossed my mind, too. ('cept submitting directly to hold queue... that would be brilliant!) When soliciting input, it is sometimes best to not lead too much with the idea one wants lest you get just a simple confirmation.
[10:24:20] <Bytram> By my not espousing those points, and you're bringing them up and advocating for them, I am certain that nothing *I* said had lead you to enumerate those factors and make that recommendation!
[10:26:41] <Bytram> Yes, if we accept the submission of a single URL as counting as a submission from a user (necessarily by using the site's UI), it should be just as valid (and meaningful) to accept a URL that happened to come from a bot, even if the bot (conveniently for us) includes text of the story for us to work from.
[10:28:23] <Bytram> And, if each is equally valid, then each should get an equal acknowledgement.
[10:30:40] <Bytram> Basically, the bot becomes a front-end to the site UI and thereby conveniently allows for the *indirect* submission of a story from IRC without having to *directly* use the site's UI.
[10:32:57] <Bytram> So, I'm in agreement with you: however submitted, whoever sent in the story submission (via the site UI or by using a bot on IRC) should be the one getting credit for the story. Do you agree that is a correct summary of the argument?
[10:32:59] <Bytram> .
[10:35:00] <janrinok> Bytram, hi. Yes, I agree. Chromas raised several potential problem areas when IDs on IRC and SN do not match but in those cases I would suggest we simply default to either AC or upstart as the user. But we ought to make it clear to users of upstart that if they use a different ID from the site then they will not get the karma. Unless, somebody has a smart idea on how we can solve the problem - but I am not that person.
[10:41:06] <Bytram> Ahhhh, and therein lie problems mon ami!
[10:41:19] <Bytram> Lemme think for a moment...
[10:42:04] <janrinok> well, if we do nothing then we are no worse off than we are today - but those that DO have matching IDs will begin to get the Karma
[10:42:24] -!- JR [JR!~a6b6fee3@174-601-084-568.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #editorial
[10:42:37] <JR> =submit https://phys.org
[10:42:38] <exec> └─ 13Wind delays Northrop Grumman's supply run to space station
[10:42:39] <systemd> Submitting "Wind delays Northrop Grumman's supply run to space station"...
[10:43:00] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Wind Delays Northrop Grumman's Supply Run to Space Station" (8 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[10:43:09] <janrinok> gtg prepare lunch - I did her favourite meals yesterday for the 14th, but she is back to slops today....
[10:43:39] <janrinok> biab
[10:45:38] <Bytram> so, I could have joined this channel with *any* nick (that does not have a vhost -- most of our community) and submit stories that apparently come from ANY member of our community! (Imagine subbing stories as Ari that are entirely opposite to his alt-right leanings).
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[10:47:50] -!- aristarchus [aristarchus!~a6b6fee3@174-601-084-568.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #editorial
[10:48:11] <aristarchus> Just like this:
[10:48:18] <aristarchus> =submit https://hackaday.com
[10:48:19] <systemd> Submitting "The Red Dwarf Talkie Toaster Made Real"...
[10:48:19] <exec> └─ 13The Red Dwarf Talkie Toaster Made Real | Hackaday
[10:48:41] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03The Red Dwarf Talkie Toaster Made Real" (3 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[10:53:20] aristarchus is now known as The_Mighty_Buzzard
[10:53:47] The_Mighty_Buzzard is now known as Spirald_Dancing
[10:54:04] Spirald_Dancing is now known as Cool_Hand
[10:54:31] Cool_Hand is now known as the_real_janrinok
[10:55:00] the_real_janrinok is now known as imaginaryDonaldTrump
[10:59:05] <Bytram> Not sure if there is *any* way way around that. I cannot think of one... everything depends on accepting input provided by the IRC user... unless, concomitant with creating a new nick on the site, comes the creation of a vhost-ed nick on IRC and an e-mail to the user with IRC password -- Which could even be the same password that was generated when creating the user? I dunno.
[10:59:17] -!- imaginaryDonaldTrump has quit []
[10:59:35] * Bytram does not even know how to set up a vhost atm
[10:59:46] <Bytram> anyway...
[10:59:54] <Bytram> coffee++ afk biab
[10:59:54] <Bender> karma - coffee: 109
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[12:21:43] -!- mode/#editorial [+v spiraldancing] by Hephaestus
[16:41:50] <Fnord666> Bytram - how is that any different though than putting someone else's nick as the username on the normal submission page? From that page you can submit anything you like as anyone you want to appear to be.
[17:21:07] <janrinok> If you are logged in the normal submission page functions as expected, but if you are not logged it it does not trust the name and quotes it. I'm not sure where the checks take place or even what checks it makes exactly.
[17:37:00] <Fnord666> Do soylentils know the difference?
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[21:26:53] -!- mode/#editorial [+v spiraldancing] by Hephaestus
[21:28:00] * Bytram waves a friendly hello to spiraldancing
[22:14:01] <Bytram> ~arthur https://arstechnica.com
[22:14:03] <exec> └─ 13Registrars raise alarm over proposal for big .com fee hikes | Ars Technica
[22:14:04] <exec> 800 stories loaded
[22:14:05] <exec> story not found
[22:14:13] <Bytram> =submit https://arstechnica.com
[22:14:15] <exec> └─ 13Registrars raise alarm over proposal for big .com fee hikes | Ars Technica
[22:14:15] <systemd> Submitting "Registrars raise alarm over proposal for big .com fee hikes"...
[22:14:37] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Registrars Raise Alarm Over Proposal for Big .com Fee Hikes" (10 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:18:44] <Bytram> Fnord666: what janrinok said... I've been looking through the code. As best as I can tell it works like this: Post as AC? Name is quoted: "somebody" writes: Post as user but provide a different name than your nick, handled like AC and name is quoted. Post as user with own name, get link to user info: <a href="https://soylentnews.org/~somebody/"> writes:
[22:18:44] <systemd> ^ 03- SoylentNews User
[22:18:45] <exec> └─ 13- SoylentNews User
[22:22:53] <chromas> Bytram: Did you notice you can put another nick in and it shows that nick's karma in the subs list?
[22:23:23] <chromas> (but only if you're logged in while subbing)
[22:47:48] <Bytram> gtg, back in a few hours!
[23:13:33] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #editorial