#editorial | Logs for 2020-02-01
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[02:33:14] <Bytram> =g lyrics he can't even run his own life
[02:33:15] <systemd> https://www.youtube.com - Sunshine - Jonathan Edwards original song and lyrics - YouTube
[03:58:24] <carny> Bytram: so are there going to be 1 or 2 coronavirus stories a day that combine all the new updates?
[03:58:53] <carny> wouldn't hurt to just make it its own tag and link it right at the top of the homepage
[03:59:52] <carny> it could bring in a ton of new readers if we could link it on social media and email to friends and family
[04:00:26] <carny> everybody is going to be paying attention to this stuff especially since impeachment has turned out to be such a dud
[04:50:32] <Fnord666> A "roundup" sort of post seems like a good way to go.
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[08:03:34] -!- mode/#editorial [+v fyngyrz] by Hephaestus
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[13:59:17] <Bytram> carny: Fnord666: Interesting concept, but I'd rather NOT have every little development in the situation hit the main page -- it would (and rightly so) discourage people from visiting the site who are NOT interested in it, or have just been burned out by seeing so much coverage. OTOH...
[14:00:42] <Bytram> If someone were to make use of their journal to bring together all the stories they come across wrt the 2019-nCoV Coronavirus... or, hmmmm...
[14:02:47] <Bytram> I wonder how hard it would be to create a new nexus? For those who are interested... there you go; and for those who are not, well they can block it in their user preferences. If we *do* do such a thing I would *strongly* suggest some standard boilerplate be added to the end of each story (maybe as a spoiler?) providing instructions on how to the nexus on or off.
[14:05:21] <Bytram> Or, maybe instead, create a new template and link to it from the site slashbox with a FAX for nexuses: how to list them, and how to include/exclude one from the user's preferences. It would mean, though, that if we make it "opt out" then every AC would see *every* story on that nexus...
[14:07:13] <janrinok> hi guys - SD is a no-show today
[14:07:29] <Bytram> I suppose we could make it opt-in, instead? Or, with a bit more effort, make it the first time a non-AC logs in after the nexus is created, give 'em some explanation of the goal/plans for the nexus and send them to the place in their preferences where they can choose to sign up. I have no idea how much coding would be involved with *that* however. Certainly more than just creating a new template.
[14:07:40] <Bytram> janrinok: thanks for letting us know!
[14:07:46] * Bytram yawns
[14:07:46] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into Bytram's gaping mouth
[14:08:42] <Bytram> janrinok: Just saw what you wrote in the training channel; looks good to me.
[14:10:21] <janrinok> although there are new patients turning up all the time the chance of anyone currently contracting the disease is extremely small. I do not personally think that it warrants it's own nexus. I would prefer to wait until it becomes more of a real threat. The total number of dead currently is less that a large aircraft disaster to put it into context.
[14:10:50] <janrinok> less than*
[14:11:38] <Bytram> let's wait until circumstances warrant it then
[14:12:02] <janrinok> I would think that a round-up every 72hrs or so would be more than enough to cover it for the time being
[14:12:15] <Bytram> OTOH, if someone wants to run with it, they can always put each update they found in their journal.
[14:12:44] <janrinok> I agree with the journal approach, and we could certainly publicise that if someone wants to run with it
[14:12:51] <Bytram> Depending, of course, on what developments any given day may bring.
[14:13:07] * Bytram is not volunteering for doing that.
[14:13:26] <janrinok> *me isn't either
[14:13:37] <janrinok> oops#
[14:14:02] <janrinok> bloody keyboard has shuffled the keys around again....
[14:15:42] <janrinok> Bytram, how about we create a new user call 'CoronaVirus' and shove it into its journal?? Are there any potential problems with that?
[14:15:42] <Bytram> might find it easier to type if you clean the blood off your keyboard
[14:16:05] <Bytram> None, except we need an email addy to set it up.
[14:16:06] <janrinok> if I want to bleed on my keyboard I shall
[14:16:35] <janrinok> you can use my janrinok@SN if you wish
[14:16:38] <Bytram> bloody bleeding heart for'ner ;)
[14:17:02] <Bytram> you do not already have that attached to an account?
[14:17:13] <janrinok> does the software check?
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[14:17:54] <Bytram> would be better (read less confusion) if it had a separate CoronaVirus (at) soylentnews (dot) org
[14:17:57] <janrinok> or create a throwaway email account
[14:18:14] <Bytram> yes, it *does* check; can only use a given email addy with a single SN acct
[14:18:48] <Bytram> inasmuchas possible, I'd like to keep any SN-related stuff all local.
[14:18:53] <janrinok> then we simply rely on people adding to the comments if they think that there is something worth reporting. I suppose it could get abused but so could any of the other suggestions...?
[14:19:11] * Bytram ponders
[14:19:34] <Bytram> hmmm.
[14:20:01] <janrinok> the fact that say 2 more people are diagnosed in outer whereistan doesn't affect me in the slightest
[14:20:30] <Bytram> could we get a bot to monitor #rss-bot and if it sees one of a set of keywords, then it auto-posts it as a story with, say, the first 3 paragraphs? Would that be possible?
[14:20:41] <Bytram> so far
[14:20:54] <janrinok> possible but would take a day or two
[14:21:05] <janrinok> well, it would take me a day or two
[14:21:42] <Bytram> now that it is known to be transmissible human-human, then that could be a new "patient zero" in a region that had not, as yet, set up a protocol to properly deal with it making it a possible new reservoir of cases.
[14:21:59] <Bytram> I know! Let's get Mikey^W chromas =)
[14:22:13] <Bytram> =yt let's get mikey
[14:22:14] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Life Cereal Mikey Likes It Commercial HD (1:2)
[14:23:40] <janrinok> obviously a US thing - never seen that before. I thought you meant Mikey USA - famous troll and pain in the ass
[14:25:01] <janrinok> Bytram, is there a delay in news reporting in the USA? We've known in Europe that it is human-human transmissible for best part of a week
[14:25:02] <Bytram> oh, completelt forgot about him! Yes US thing, definitely. Chex cereal had many takes on that concept... became a meme in its own right, way back then!
[14:25:20] <Bytram> no, no delay
[14:25:58] <Bytram> just pointing out that there now being a case or two in a country which previously did not have it *is* of importanc...
[14:26:24] <Bytram> it's not so much the number of people infected there, but the fact that there *are* infected people there.
[14:26:27] <janrinok> you have a handful of patients in the US, and I hope that they are all quarantined by now. Is this being portrayed as quite a serious problem. I know the potential, but we are far from that at present.
[14:27:27] <janrinok> we've got 2 in the UK, now quarantined. We've put an aircraft's worth of people in special accommodation for 14 days. Nobody is getting too excited in the UK.
[14:28:09] <janrinok> that doesn't mean that the UK is correct, just that there isn't the same level of concern
[14:28:38] <janrinok> the medical specialists seem to be on top of it. If they drop the ball then it is a different matter.
[14:29:13] <Bytram> understood, but another factor is that people can be contagious for something like up two weeks before they are symptomatic, so those are only the ones we know about... there could be many more :/
[14:29:44] <Bytram> who are happily unaware and spreading it all around
[14:30:14] <janrinok> hence the putting those who have just returned into isolation. But until we find more cases then the UK is content with the actions taken so far.
[14:30:52] <Bytram> so the question (in my mind) is how much greater is the number of actual cases compared to the number of known cases? We know them all? 10% more? 500% more?
[14:30:53] <janrinok> there will be more - but nothing anywhere near the number who die from a standard flu season each year
[14:31:15] <Bytram> let's hope it stays that way!
[14:31:35] <janrinok> agreed. I just don't want us to be seen as fear-mongering.
[14:32:56] <Bytram> since we don't know the exact number of infected people, the projection as to death rate or very serious disease rate vs number of cases has a wide range of possible values.
[14:33:00] <Bytram> nod nod
[14:33:00] <janrinok> By the way, did you see the comments that I added to yours and Fnord's comments on the submission relating Coronavirus and SARS? The man is a known anti-vaxxer, and there is much reporting of his 'qualifications' and previous statements.
[14:33:27] <Bytram> Saw fn's hadn't seen yours, yet.
[14:33:34] <janrinok> hardly a sound source on this topic
[14:34:16] <Bytram> only booted up my pc maybe a half hour ago, but saw his comment last night when I was looking over things on my mobile during a late-night bathroom break.
[14:34:25] <janrinok> he is quite vocal on twitter -as well as being highly criticised, and has made several unscientific proclamations in the past
[14:34:32] <Bytram> got it; thanks! I'm glad I held off!
[14:34:45] <Bytram> biab...
[14:34:47] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:34:47] <Bender> karma - coffee: 105
[14:37:56] <Bytram> just read your note... very much appreciate the info!
[14:38:01] <Bytram> teamwork++
[14:38:01] <Bender> karma - teamwork: 220
[14:38:07] <Bytram> this time for sure:
[14:38:09] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:38:09] <Bender> karma - coffee: 106
[14:38:12] <Bytram> biab
[14:38:14] <Bytram> afk
[14:49:49] <janrinok> just thinking aloud - nobody outside China has died from the virus, and the vast majority of those who have died inside China also had an existing medical condition which was aggravated by the virus.
[14:52:22] <janrinok> We could always ask the community what they would like to see in the way of reporting. Regular updates, a periodic summary, or just when something especially significant occurs e.g. deaths outside of China from otherwise healthy individuals etc
[15:01:32] <janrinok> just rebooting - back in a few minutes
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[15:30:46] <janrinok> carny, you left just as I was about to ask you for your opinion. How frequently to you think that should report CoronaVirus stories? What aspect in particular would you like to see reported?
[15:32:26] <carny> i think it's going to be one of the most important stories of the year and it's being actively censored in some places and quietly ignored in others
[15:32:58] <carny> so i think it needs to be at least a daily round up story
[15:33:06] <janrinok> it is important, but have you read our comments up the page?
[15:33:24] <janrinok> .... or perhaps you cannot see them after you logged out
[15:33:38] <carny> but like i said if you put it into its own section then people could ignore it if they don't care because it hasn't hit their country yet
[15:33:56] <carny> i saw up to <+janrinok> does the software check?
[15:34:59] <janrinok> as I write, there have been 259 deaths - all of which have occurred in China - and all but a handful of those were already suffering from an existing condition that was the actual cause of death, The virus aggravated it.
[15:35:37] <carny> i'd like to see the reports which are telling you that there have been only 259 deaths
[15:36:32] <janrinok> https://www.aljazeera.com
[15:36:32] <systemd> ^ 03China coronavirus death toll surges: All the latest updates
[15:36:34] <exec> └─ 13China coronavirus death toll surges: All the latest updates | China News | Al Jazeera
[15:36:51] <carny> i saw a table with over a thousand deaths and over 10 thousand confirmed cases just in china
[15:36:56] <janrinok> https://www.nytimes.com
[15:36:58] <exec> └─ 13Coronavirus Live Updates: Toll Passes 250, and Apple Shuts China Stores - The New York Times
[15:36:58] <systemd> ^ 03Coronavirus Live Updates: Toll Passes 250, and Apple Shuts China Stores
[15:37:20] <janrinok> https://www.worldometers.info
[15:37:22] <exec> └─ 13Coronavirus Toll Update: Cases & Deaths by Country of Wuhan, China Virus - Worldometer
[15:37:42] <carny> right so it's already looking like it's going to be on par with sars
[15:37:50] <janrinok> https://www.cbsnews.com
[15:37:52] <systemd> ^ 03Coronavirus has infected nearly 12,000 people worldwide
[15:37:54] <exec> └─ 13Coronavirus has infected nearly 12,000 people worldwide; U.S. declares a public health emergency and will bar some foreign nationals from entering the country
[15:38:30] <carny> that last one is getting closer i think
[15:38:40] <janrinok> that is less than an aircraft disaster. Those identified outside of China are now in isolation - but probably more cases will result from contagion and contact
[15:39:35] <janrinok> infected doesn't mean dead! Provided that you are otherwise healthy, you are at as much risk as dying from flu. Yes, there will be deaths but as of yet they have not occurred outside of China.
[15:39:53] <carny> if you don't think a new pandemic that has not just made thousands of people sick enough to go to a hospital but is actually killing people is important enough to try to spread awareness i don't know what else to say
[15:40:51] <carny> this is a huge story and soylentnews could be one of the top news sites helping people get to the truth instead of the official stories of 'everything is fine nothing to see here'
[15:41:07] <janrinok> but we have already covered the story. However, we do not want to be scare mongering. I don't know where you are or where you get your news and governmental guidance from, but in Europe the advice is to wash hands regularly
[15:41:16] <carny> but it sounds like that's the message you want to put out so that's fine
[15:41:25] <carny> people can get their news somewhere else
[15:42:03] <carny> yeah see unlike most people i have a bit of experience with government agencies in general and these suspects in particular
[15:42:30] <carny> i know how they lie and withhold the truth to 'prevent panics'
[15:42:45] <janrinok> we have had 4 stories about the virus in 6 days. We do report what is happening. But for the handful of people outside of China who have currently been diagnosed there is no panic - their governments are treating them.
[15:43:32] <janrinok> we are not trying to put out 'a message' - we are reporting what is in the press that can be verified. Has your government given you any different advise that we should know about?
[15:43:41] <carny> there are 400 thousand chinese students in usa colleges right now and a big group of them will have been at home for the chinese new year
[15:44:13] <carny> my government lies and withholds the truth just like i expect yours does
[15:44:28] <janrinok> and what has the US government suggested is the risk. They are channelling all those returning from China to a small number of airports - 4 I think
[15:44:43] <carny> the difference is i have worked in places you can't go and i've talked to people you'll never meet and i know exactly how the system works because i was part of it
[15:44:57] <janrinok> unless you can produce something to corroborate your claim that is simply not reportable
[15:45:18] <carny> i'm not asking to report my personal claims
[15:45:21] <janrinok> Fine - provide the proof and we can publish it
[15:45:27] <carny> no
[15:45:40] <carny> i'm not doxing myself just for your curiousity
[15:45:44] <janrinok> well, what would you expect us to report then
[15:46:18] <carny> news and analysis that is not making it to the front page of the new york times
[15:46:37] <janrinok> we have covered every major news release over the last 6 days. We are not reporting things that 'might' be happening because that is simply propaganda or scare-mongering.
[15:46:48] <carny> Bytram: 's round up story was exactly what i'm talking about
[15:47:10] <carny> one or two of them a day is all the site needs to be doing better than most other news orgs
[15:47:23] <janrinok> Look at the links I provided - one was from the NYT. And we are quite happy to do a round up, but we are not reporting every individual incident
[15:48:01] <janrinok> I would suggest that a round-up once or twice a week would be more that sufficient unless the current situation changes.
[15:49:18] <janrinok> alternatively, we would encourage you to put them in your journal, and we are more than happy to publicise that fact on a frequent basis
[15:49:57] <carny> i'll think about that
[15:50:58] <janrinok> we haven't got the staff - nor can we see the justification as of yet - for additional reporting of every related news item - but we can certainly help you get the reporting out via your journal
[15:54:03] <janrinok> Bytram's round-up was yesterday. There has been no significant change to the situation in the USA, Europe and Australasia other than the banning of all aircraft from China or people arriving from China. What can be done - under the guidance of WHO - is being done.
[15:57:13] <janrinok> we are not a news site - we cannot hope to compete with the major news companies operating around the world. With 4 active editors at the moment we cannot give - and have never tried to give - round the clock news coverage. Many of our stories are days old. They are there to promote discussion - not necessarily to keep everyone abreast of developments as they happen.
[15:58:17] <janrinok> carny, thanks for sharing your thoughts. We are still looking at what we can do and trying to discover what the community would like us to do.
[16:14:05] <chromas> SARSlent News
[16:20:25] <chromas> or was it bird-flu?
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[20:54:44] <Bytram> https://www.aljazeera.com
[20:54:47] <exec> └─ 13Outrage as US rolls back landmine ban | USA News | Al Jazeera
[20:56:23] <Bytram> Maybe, as a demonstration, they could install a bunch on the White House lawn... or even on the porch.
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[21:05:05] -!- mode/#editorial [+v chromas] by Hephaestus
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[23:20:54] <AzumaHazuki> Right...so, I've had a bunch of people PMing me and a few poking at me on the forums to be an editor. Might be willing to give it a go...
[23:21:29] <AzumaHazuki> If I do I'm going to be pretty heavily STEM-centric and...er, not much of a fan of political stories