#editorial | Logs for 2016-12-02

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[00:00:15] <n1> the % of submissions we reject is very small, usually because there is something to the story, even if the submitter got too reactionary and emotional in their attempt to explain it
[00:00:51] <Fnord666> good to know.
[00:05:24] <Fnord666> Must resist turning the headline into a question.
[00:06:57] <n1> aye
[00:07:36] <n1> on the subject of the story though... there are some creative definitions of 'renewable energy' in europe
[00:11:28] <Fnord666> I'm sensing a little bit of that from the story, yes.
[00:13:59] <n1> in the UK they were doing it by calling incinerators 'gasifiers' as a way of making burning waste 'recycling' and by extension 'renewable'
[00:15:30] <n1> wedges with chipotle sauce plus beer is a vicious cycle
[00:16:54] <Fnord666> speaking of renewable and self sustaining...
[00:17:40] <n1> i'm sure my own gasifying(?) capabilities are going to increase shortly
[00:18:38] <Fnord666> :-)
[00:23:54] <Fnord666> good night n1. Have a good one.
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[08:13:08] <janrinok> ~eds Please remember that we are back at approx 90 mins story spacing
[08:13:08] <exec> editor ping for janrinok (reason: please remember that we are back at approx 90 mins story spacing): janrinok zz_janrinok n1 nick martyb Bytram cmn32480 coolhand takyon bytram|away Fnord666 charon GreatOutdoors FatPhil Snow goodie mrpg
[08:15:06] <charon> good morning janrinok
[08:15:14] <janrinok> charon, good morning!
[08:15:27] <charon> the night shift was uneventful, as usual
[08:15:39] <janrinok> that's the best way, isn't it?
[08:15:48] <charon> aye, that is so
[08:16:23] <janrinok> do you get any rest or is that not possible?
[08:16:41] <charon> this is my normal bed time
[08:17:16] <charon> i get out of work at 10pm, stay up til about 3-4am then sleep til it's time to go to work again
[08:17:47] <janrinok> I used to work a night shift but could doze in my chair as long as I was available to take action when necessary.
[08:17:49] <charon> so despite my time zone, i am more like a US west coaster
[08:18:19] <charon> that's not a bad gig
[08:18:28] <charon> until the first time you oversleep it
[08:19:08] <janrinok> I had a very important phone in front of me - if it rang everyone was awake immediately!
[08:19:42] <janrinok> would probably get 2 - 3 hours dozing if I was lucky
[08:19:47] <charon> hah, oh shit! the phone rang!
[08:20:11] <janrinok> not something that one would sleep through
[08:20:59] <charon> at my work we used to have a light beam in the doorway that would sound a bell when someone walked in or out
[08:21:10] <charon> i still hear it in my dreams
[08:21:53] <janrinok> I was most fortunate - most people couldn't access the room that I was sat in unless they were one of my 5 man team.
[08:22:55] <charon> so only your people got to snooze?
[08:23:13] <janrinok> I don't care what people outside were doing at that point :)
[08:23:49] <charon> i like being up all night, but i'm not sure i'd want to work overnight
[08:24:06] <janrinok> there would be things to do in the first third and the last third of the shift, but the middle could be busy as hell or deathly quiet
[08:28:01] <charon> i've been meaning to ask, does the site make any money from the swag purchases? as in, if i had money to spend, i assume more of it would get to the site if i made a direct contribution?
[08:28:47] <janrinok> it gets a small proportion but it doesn't make much of a mark in the accounts. Worth doing but not enough to get excited about.
[08:30:28] <charon> plus i don't drink coffee. so a mug would be useless to me anyway
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[12:34:00] <cmn32480> janrinok_afk - the sci-hub links are a gray area, one that we should not stray into. Sci-hub has faced numerous legal challenges, and is referred to often as "The Pirate Bay" of scientific papers. Just as we would not link to copy written materials on TPB, we ought not be linking to SCi-Hub for the same reason.
[12:36:48] <Bytram> ^^^ I concur. If I ever see a link to sci-hub, I will happily nuke it with fire... any possible benefit of including it is FAR outweighed by potential problems; not. worth. it.
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[14:29:17] <FatPhil> The middle-ground might be, where sci-hub links have been provided by a contributor tonuke it but just add the comment something like "there may exist mirrors of the paper on sites such as sci-hub".
[14:30:30] <FatPhil> Perhaps we need an official stance, that can be copy-pasted verbatim, so nobody needs to think about how to address complaints in the future.
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[14:32:30] <FatPhil> "It is SoylentNews policy not to directly link to mirrors of copyrighted material hosted on sites which have a reputation for willful violation of copyright."
[14:32:50] <n1> i'm pretty sure we already have that policy somewhere
[14:34:30] <FatPhil> it's not on the FAQ here: https://soylentnews.org
[14:34:32] <exec> └─ 13SoylentNews: FAQ
[14:36:00] <n1> maybe it should be put somewhere, i still use the example of when the next Star Wars movie comes out, we're not going to throw up a link to a torrent for it in the summary
[14:36:40] <chromas> just a sha1 of the file wink wink
[14:36:51] <chromas> for research purposes
[14:36:55] <FatPhil> subtle...
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[14:38:35] <n1> SN exists as a legal entity, not just a website with a domain registered by proxy, so we're not in the position to test the limits of IP/copyright protections across many jurisdictions
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[15:08:50] <janrinok> I've backread and concur with your views. Links to sci-hub should not be included in stories unless/until the management group decide otherwise.
[15:10:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> haven't we already run a lot of sci-hub links?
[15:11:44] <janrinok> I don't know, I've never used it before - well not knowingly anyway#
[15:12:24] <n1> i think there's been a story or two about sci-hub, and probably links in the comments
[15:13:09] <janrinok> I hadn't heard of sci-hub until this current discussion, but I will look back in the stories to see what I can find.
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[15:17:06] <janrinok> I can only find 1 story on May 17 2016, and that doesn't mention any contentious about the site.
[15:17:16] <janrinok> anything*
[15:19:18] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[15:19:20] <janrinok> We might need to draft a change to the Submission Guide to explain that Sci-Hub links are not acceptable.
[15:19:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty sure i've heard it discussed before but no idea how it turned out
[15:19:51] <janrinok> but we ought to discuss it more widely to see what others think
[15:20:43] <Fnord666> Hey all. What's the controversy?
[15:21:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> janrinok, if we make it a site discussion make sure that a yes vote obligates you to contribute to our eventual lawsuit fund
[15:21:43] <janrinok> the consensus is that Sci-Hub links might leave us open to a legal challenge - it is being equated to the Pirate Bay. As we cannot survive any legal challenge the sensible option is to not allow sci-hub links
[15:22:16] <janrinok> TheMightyBuzzard, I was thinking more of involving the Management Group
[15:22:49] <janrinok> this is not just an editorial issue
[15:23:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> mosta them ain't around much lately cept ncommander and Deucalion, though i spose they have the final say between them unless it becomes a board matter.
[15:23:59] <janrinok> is mrcoolbp around every now and then?
[15:24:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> not for quite a while last i checked
[15:24:25] <janrinok> !last mrcoolbp
[15:24:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~last channel= nick=mrcoolbp
[15:24:43] <exec> 03[2016-07-22 17:10:3] #Soylent <mrcoolbp_> cmn32480: might be boron
[15:24:58] <janrinok> 4 or 5 months then
[15:25:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> texted him earlier asking him to transfer funds and update the beg-o-meter though so he might be around soon
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[15:29:57] <cmn32480> janrinok - https://en.wikipedia.org
[15:29:59] <exec> └─ 13Sci-Hub - Wikipedia
[15:32:20] <cmn32480> #fite cmn32480
[15:32:20] <MrPlow> #fite spam going to channel #fite
[15:32:20] <MrPlow> #fite How can you fight when you're dead? Try again tomorrow.
[15:32:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> might just mention that the paper does reside on sci-hub and leave it to the users to find it.
[15:34:33] <n1> those so inclined will already look for it
[15:34:33] <cmn32480> tat woudl constitiute an official endorsement
[15:34:45] <cmn32480> and I don't think we want to go there
[15:34:47] <n1> we're not in the business of promotion/endorsements as far as i'm aware
[15:35:24] <cmn32480> if we post links to it, I believe it is a grey area that can leave us legally liable.
[15:35:34] <n1> as much as i might think sci-hub is providing a valuable service, i'm not going to give them special treatment
[15:37:42] <n1> if sci-hub itself ends up in the news through litigation or whatever, then we should absolutely cover it
[15:38:08] <cmn32480> yes. but that is different from using their links to paywalled papers
[15:38:30] <n1> exactly
[15:38:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> the sci-hub link will remain in the original submission that we link to, yes?
[15:38:51] <n1> yup
[15:39:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> reasonable compromise then
[15:40:55] <n1> i think it's as important to be reminded that in reality the paywalls and barriers to access for academic papers still exist
[15:41:11] <n1> just because we have ways around them doesn't mean we should be complacent about the system as it still does exist
[15:41:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> as an admin and code monkey i can legitimately say it's an extreme pita to alter submissions.
[15:42:45] <n1> there's clear enough distinctions between community generated stuff, like original submissions and comments, owned by whoever posted, and the 'SN approved' summaries
[15:43:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> gotta go in and db edit by hand. not at all easy when you gotta quote a gerzillion characters for a multi-line submission.
[15:43:19] <n1> and if we ever do get a request from rights-holders to remove a comment, then that becomes a separate story in itself
[15:43:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup. literally as we're well within our rights to then quote the entire comment in a story about it.
[15:44:05] <n1> indeed
[15:45:30] <n1> we need to have a degree of professionalism in the content we publish if we have to have any shred of legitimacy moving forward and enticing more people to join the community
[15:45:56] <n1> would be nice if we had the resources to be more challenging, but it's more wise to pick the battles with care
[17:30:54] <janrinok> TheMightyBuzzard, please can you give mrpg privs on prod please
[17:31:53] <janrinok> mrpg is user 5708
[17:33:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> done
[17:33:55] <janrinok> and can you check that goodie/1877 also has the privs - I thought that they had them last week and wondered why they hadn't turned up
[17:37:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> done
[17:37:56] <janrinok> thanks for both
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[17:50:02] * cmn32480 bangs head on desk
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[18:03:42] <janrinok> cmn?
[18:04:14] <cmn32480> jan?
[18:04:29] <cmn32480> janrinok,
[18:04:33] <janrinok> you were banging your head on the desk - I have done something wrong?
[18:05:17] <cmn32480> are you one of my cuss-tomers at work?
[18:05:27] <janrinok> hopefully not :)
[18:05:50] <cmn32480> then it is unlikely that you did anythign wrong
[18:05:55] <janrinok> lol
[18:06:16] <janrinok> I found out why mrpg and goodie had not turned up on prod - they didn't have the privs...
[18:06:20] <cmn32480> I am currently suffering from too-many-idiot-iotis
[18:06:51] <janrinok> I suggest you take the next 2 days off
[18:07:12] <janrinok> and relax with us here on SN
[18:07:13] <cmn32480> for example...
[18:07:44] <cmn32480> the idiot who plugged his cellular wif-fi hotspot into his computer... then cou;d not understand why he can't get to any of the websites we host internalls
[18:08:03] <janrinok> lol
[18:08:37] <janrinok> but but but customers pay your wage, indirectly at least. They must be wonderful people
[18:08:57] <cmn32480> I wanted to punch him but was afraifd his bath in cologn this mornign might punch back
[18:09:23] <cmn32480> it was trying to asphyxiate me the entire time I was in his office
[18:11:45] <janrinok> I've met people like that, I wonder how they manage to breathe#
[18:12:52] <cmn32480> makes me wish I;d kept the PAPR from the site Iwas at this week,
[18:13:25] <cmn32480> http://www.legionsafety.com
[18:13:34] <janrinok> fully suited and ready to go
[18:14:06] <cmn32480> yeah
[18:14:32] <janrinok> I think that you would have made the point very well if you had turned up wearing one of those
[18:14:48] <cmn32480> either that or he needs a bath for other reasons
[18:15:20] <cmn32480> 'cuz he's a shithead
[18:15:36] <janrinok> I can tell that you are warming to this guy
[18:15:54] <cmn32480> oh yes
[18:16:01] <cmn32480> the VP of sales calls him bubblehead
[18:16:22] <janrinok> so you are not alone
[18:16:40] <cmn32480> not only not alone.. but in the majority
[18:17:10] <cmn32480> most of the company thinks this guy is a complete dullard except the owner he reports to.. who is of questionable sanity
[18:17:49] <janrinok> well if ever there was evidence required of insanity, these seems to be a fairly conclusive example of it
[18:18:33] <cmn32480> yep
[18:19:12] <janrinok> how's J and the kids? S sends her best, by the way
[18:19:58] <cmn32480> they are happy I am home for a while
[18:20:19] <cmn32480> as am I
[18:20:31] <cmn32480> thanfully nothign really to report
[18:20:38] <cmn32480> just the usual
[18:20:43] <janrinok> that's good news then
[18:21:54] <cmn32480> yep
[18:22:00] <cmn32480> how's you and S been doing?
[18:22:32] <janrinok> she is slowly regaining her strength, and is much more positive than she was a few weeks ago
[18:22:55] <cmn32480> that's good
[18:23:05] <cmn32480> she still driving you like a red-headed step child?
[18:23:15] <janrinok> yep
[18:23:33] <janrinok> she keeps me busy but I am happy with that
[18:23:51] <cmn32480> excellent
[18:24:00] * cmn32480 notes the new whip marks on janrinok's back
[18:24:24] <janrinok> they'll heal
[18:24:49] * cmn32480 notes that she is cackling in the bacground
[18:25:13] <janrinok> you have good hearing - but you are right, I was just explaining what you had said!
[18:25:57] * cmn32480 hears like a bat... unless J is talking... then he hears like a brick
[18:27:12] <janrinok> you've seen the email that I sent to mrpg and goodie?
[18:27:32] <cmn32480> i did
[18:27:37] <cmn32480> any response?
[18:28:20] <janrinok> mrpg has been in touch - they appear to have had not been given privs on prod. That is now corrected and he will be appearing in the near future
[18:28:33] <cmn32480> excellent
[18:28:52] * cmn32480 is surprised he didn't speak up...
[18:29:19] <janrinok> yes, I thought that strange too
[18:29:46] <cmn32480> shy?
[18:29:55] <janrinok> but if he thought that he had 'failed' and that we were ignoring him it might explain it?
[18:30:15] <janrinok> it's not how we operate but he might not have realised that
[18:30:21] <cmn32480> possible
[18:30:35] * cmn32480 also hasn't been on dev is a week and some
[18:31:20] <cmn32480> nobody is practicing... I guess that's good
[18:31:45] <janrinok> charon has been on there trying various ideas, I think
[18:32:02] <cmn32480> and from the look of things.. we are past the point of maximum pain
[18:32:18] <janrinok> it is certainly a lot easier these days
[18:32:26] <cmn32480> now it is just the standard pain of dealing w/ the FNG
[18:32:31] <janrinok> but I will see what happens over this weekend
[18:32:43] <cmn32480> I'm rather impressed, actually.
[18:32:48] <cmn32480> they've all been doing well
[18:32:49] <janrinok> so am I
[18:33:11] * cmn32480 gives the evil eye to all the lowly junior editors
[18:37:10] <cmn32480> so far so good
[18:37:13] <cmn32480> they've done well
[18:37:38] <cmn32480> and when questioned, have handled themselves nicely.
[18:37:52] <janrinok> they are thinking about the job too, not just pushing out stories
[18:38:07] <cmn32480> whcih is where I have been for a while...
[18:38:39] <janrinok> we have all been there - there is only so much you can do when you have to keep pushing just to stay on top
[18:38:57] <cmn32480> yep.. burngin the candle at both ends adn the middel is not fun
[18:39:22] <janrinok> and for you and marty you have your own jobs to do
[18:39:41] <janrinok> I can at least find some time each day to do some editing
[18:39:43] <cmn32480> as do you
[18:43:53] <cmn32480> mmmm salty nuts
[18:43:55] <cmn32480> wait
[18:43:58] <cmn32480> WAIT\
[18:44:03] <cmn32480> that was NOT what I meant
[18:44:17] <cmn32480> I'm eating trailmix... and the nuts are salty
[18:44:34] <cmn32480> sigh this isn't going to end well
[18:47:19] <janrinok> that's what they all say
[18:47:36] * cmn32480 goes to find a hole to hide in
[18:47:54] <janrinok> look what you do away from SN is not really anything to do with us, but now that you have brought it up ....
[18:49:05] <cmn32480> oh lord...
[18:49:18] * cmn32480 waits for the hell to rain down...
[18:49:57] <janrinok> do you think that worshipping someone's salty nuts will help your career?
[18:50:17] <cmn32480> nope
[18:50:27] <janrinok> so you do it purely for fun then?
[18:50:37] <cmn32480> but given upper management around here, it might help me vomit
[18:50:40] <janrinok> and I quote - 'mmm salty nuts
[18:50:55] * cmn32480 hears S cackling in the background again
[18:51:08] <janrinok> no, you are safe at the moment
[18:51:20] <cmn32480> key words: for the moment
[18:52:02] <janrinok> well she is watching something on TV at present ...
[18:52:27] <cmn32480> yeah
[18:52:28] <cmn32480> grand
[18:52:39] <cmn32480> keep telling her this stuff she is gonna tell you to find new friends!
[18:53:04] <janrinok> she already does, I just tell her that you all keep following me when I change sites
[18:53:26] * cmn32480 notes that there is a certain moount of truth in that statement
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[19:04:15] <janrinok> mrpg has just checked in and is editing his first story
[19:32:13] <cmn32480> woot!
[19:59:40] <CoolHand> nice...
[19:59:51] <janrinok> time to go
[20:00:03] <cmn32480> have a good night janrinok
[20:00:10] <cmn32480> tell S I said to stop working you so hard.
[20:00:15] <cmn32480> that is OUR job!
[20:00:24] <janrinok> lol - that will make a big difference!
[20:00:33] <janrinok> ~gnight cmn32480
[20:00:34] * exec spontaneously formulates a spool of perl for cmn32480
[20:00:40] <janrinok> ~gnight CoolHand
[20:00:41] * exec implicitly flings a fartbox of eye boogers at CoolHand
[20:00:48] <janrinok> ~gnight n1
[20:00:49] * exec spontaneously copies a bucket of windows 3.11 for workpoops for n1
[20:01:15] <cmn32480> ~gnight janrinok
[20:01:17] * exec analiciously flings an old shoe full of prison food at janrinok
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[23:16:11] <charon> hiyo editorial
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[23:44:53] <mrpg> Hi, I wanted to submit this "Nokia smartphones to return in 2017", was it already submitted a few days ago? I think yes. I'm looking for it.
[23:45:36] <charon> hiyo mrpg
[23:46:02] <charon> if you find it is a dupe, put a note saying that on the submission and someone will delete it
[23:48:55] <mrpg> It's a new submission that I want to send, I think I saw it somewhere already.
[23:50:54] <mrpg> ah, it was on /
[23:50:56] <mrpg> ./.
[23:51:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, i just searched and we haven't run it
[23:51:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> fair game even if it did run on /. though
[23:51:47] <mrpg> ok