#editorial | Logs for 2015-10-03
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[00:00:11] <nick> i haved used godaddy in the past
[00:00:15] <nick> for domains and hosting
[00:00:22] <Bytram> nod nod
[00:03:39] <nick> with 1&1 for now, services have been fine but the sales calls are fucking annoying
[00:03:44] <nick> and no bulk domain updat
[00:03:48] <nick> update*
[00:06:03] <nick> is it even possible for there to be a decent windows host?
[00:06:44] <cmn32480> as much as I want to say yes....
[00:07:01] <Bytram> just tell 'em that you like the service but hate the sales calls and if you get any more you will SERIOUSLY consider going someplace else... so do you want to hold on to an existing customer, or lose them?
[00:07:21] <nick> oh i have tried
[00:07:30] <Bytram> and...?
[00:07:33] <nick> but they're american sales reps, my british manner doesn't get through
[00:07:46] <cmn32480> then give them the American
[00:07:49] <Bytram> ask for their supervisor.
[00:08:03] <Bytram> what is their domain name?
[00:08:04] <cmn32480> "Look, you call me again, I'm taking my business elsewhere, are we clear?"
[00:08:07] <nick> i have to just hang up on them, i have a couple saved in my phone now#
[00:08:14] <nick> so can ignore
[00:08:38] <nick> they called me one time, i asked them about migrating services from one package to another
[00:08:47] <cmn32480> also suggest calling in and talking to customer service, not the idiots in sales and tell them the same thing
[00:08:48] <nick> they told me to go on the website and see if i could
[00:09:21] <cmn32480> nice
[00:09:52] <nick> couldn't do it and didn't want to risk having email go down in the migration
[00:09:58] <nick> so they made more money out of being useless
[01:18:51] <takyon> check in
[01:23:29] <nick> hey takyon
[01:23:43] <takyon> how ya doing
[01:25:01] <nick> doin'
[01:25:09] <nick> how about you?
[01:25:26] <takyon> pretty good
[01:25:45] <takyon> was checking out a new place to live
[01:26:42] <nick> how did that go?
[01:27:13] <takyon> well I looked at it, but the landlord wasn't there
[01:37:25] <Bytram> cmn32480: are you still here?
[01:37:31] <cmn32480> no
[01:37:34] <cmn32480> are you?
[01:37:40] <Bytram> me neither.
[01:37:52] <Bytram> now that I finally have ubuntu up and running, I'd like to save things as they are.
[01:38:00] <Bytram> any suggestions?
[01:38:27] <cmn32480> shut down the VM. and make a copy of the folder that it lives in
[01:40:10] <Bytram> okay...
[01:40:21] <Bytram> do I need to shutdown ubuntu first?
[01:40:27] * Bytram doesn't think so but....
[01:40:36] <cmn32480> that woudl be included in "Shutdown the VM"
[01:40:42] <Bytram> oh, okay.
[01:41:01] <cmn32480> It'll reboot, I promise
[01:41:09] <Bytram> well, I don't know *what* it is talking to, but I see network IO in the VM
[01:41:28] <cmn32480> are you actually doing anythgin with it atm?
[01:42:34] <Bytram> nope
[01:43:03] <Bytram> I'm seeing the activity indicator blinking in the VM
[01:43:14] <cmn32480> then do a graceful shutdown
[01:43:20] <Bytram> and seeing my bytes sent/received incrementing in windows
[01:43:27] <cmn32480> don't sweat it.
[01:43:35] <Bytram> k
[01:44:07] <Bytram> so will shutting down the VM trigger ubuntu to go away, or must I shudown by myself, first?
[01:45:11] <cmn32480> one sec
[01:45:16] <cmn32480> firing up my vm
[01:45:30] <Bytram> k
[01:45:54] <cmn32480> ok, 2 ways to do it
[01:46:07] <cmn32480> 1) if the VM is running, and all you wanna get is a snapshot, you can do that
[01:46:12] <cmn32480> from the console window
[01:46:19] <Bytram> nod nod; I get the concept
[01:46:35] <cmn32480> OR you can shut down vm and copy the folder where the files live
[01:47:13] <cmn32480> when I shut down, I tend to do it from the OS, not from Virtual box
[01:47:32] <Bytram> ah, the voice of experience. THAT's what I was looking for!
[01:47:39] <cmn32480> ok
[01:47:51] <cmn32480> sorry I took so long to actaully understnad what you were shooting for
[01:48:07] <Bytram> do you do a hard shutdown, or a suspend?
[01:48:12] <cmn32480> either way will work, but I feel more comfortable doing it from inside hte vm...
[01:48:26] <cmn32480> shutdown. I don't like suspend/hibernate particularly in a VM
[01:48:37] <Bytram> got it.
[01:49:16] * Bytram hits the (i) button, clicks shutdown on the Dialog and watches things go away
[01:49:17] <Deucalion> yah, always use the within VM OS shutdown routines. Hitting the hypervisor power button is akin to hitting the power button on a physical box. OS's are better these days at recognising the power event but still not perfect. As always controlled OS shutdown rather than hard power down is preferred :)
[01:49:31] <Bytram> nod nod
[01:49:43] <Bytram> methinks I hit the wrong button.
[01:49:54] <Bytram> but, it's gone now, anyway.
[01:49:58] <cmn32480> the hypervosor typically has an option to do a graceful shutdown
[01:50:05] * Bytram now goes to look for where it went
[01:50:24] <Bytram> well, the msg was from Linux, so maybe I did do the right thing
[01:51:39] <Bytram> aha /me found the dir
[01:51:55] <Bytram> it's under my home dir in "VirtualBox VMs"
[01:52:03] <cmn32480> yes... that sounds correct
[01:53:14] <Deucalion> Bytram, your first time playing with VirtualBox?
[01:53:28] <Bytram> yeah. Does it show? ;)
[01:54:33] <cmn32480> it does. but we've all been there
[01:54:46] <cmn32480> janrinok walked me through my first Ubuntu install
[01:54:53] <cmn32480> held my hand like a babe in the woods
[01:55:06] <Bytram> he's really good at that!
[01:55:09] <cmn32480> and if I recall correctly, Deucalion walked me through virtual box
[01:55:55] <Bytram> it helps that I actually *tested* IBM's VM os back in the day, so I understand the concepts -- which helps immensely, but how it is *implemented* in this case, that's another matter of finding all the right knobs and such.
[01:56:13] <cmn32480> push buttons. worst you can do is break it
[01:56:28] <Deucalion> I did cmn32480 ? :/ My memory is shite. Oh wait, yeah, I do kinda remember those convos.
[01:56:56] <Bytram> and bless you with another 1/2 day of my providing you step-by-step instructions on how I set it up again!!
[01:57:04] <cmn32480> yes... you did. and it was quite a big help
[01:57:15] <cmn32480> is ok Bytram.
[01:57:23] <cmn32480> I can always wander off and do my day job
[01:57:28] <Deucalion> Nice thing about VMs - abuse them... if the worst happens, dlete the vdi file and machine instance and start over. So much nicer than installing on bare metal with all the bootloader tomfoolery.
[01:57:42] <cmn32480> ^^^^^^^ THis a thouhsand times
[01:57:57] * Bytram vigorously agrees
[01:58:10] <Bytram> hardware is so much faster these days, too.
[01:58:15] <Deucalion> yup
[01:58:20] <cmn32480> sure
[01:58:41] <cmn32480> that laptop has 20 times the power of the room sized computers that took us to the moon
[01:58:53] <Deucalion> Is it as reliable though?
[01:59:10] <cmn32480> oh hell no
[01:59:47] <cmn32480> and certainly not if it is running Windows
[02:00:52] <Bytram> there is more compute power in my 5-year-old mobile phone than the top-of-the-line IBM Mainframe I tested on back in the early 1980's
[02:01:07] <Bytram> and it cost several meeelion dollars
[02:01:24] <cmn32480> zactly my point
[02:01:31] <Bytram> it was a very expensive phone! ;)
[02:02:44] <cmn32480> hehe
[02:02:56] <cmn32480> and it didn't need to have it's own crane to make it portable
[02:03:22] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:03:41] <Bytram> as it ws so advanced, it was only the size of 3 refridgerators
[02:04:19] <Bytram> vm backup is *only* 5.57 GB
[02:04:30] <cmn32480> makes sense
[02:04:36] <takyon> I'm wondering what the limits will be
[02:04:42] <Deucalion> wait - can we back that up on 5.25" floppies?
[02:05:03] <takyon> ... the limits of computing
[02:05:08] <Bytram> water-cooled dual processor with 256 MB of extended memory on top of 32 MB of base memory.
[02:05:15] <cmn32480> if you gave the VM a 10GB disk, it will by default set the disk to expand as needed instead of taking up the whole amount of space at the oputset
[02:05:36] <Bytram> yep, makes sense.
[02:05:47] <cmn32480> ok
[02:05:51] <cmn32480> I gotta collect up my kids
[02:05:54] * Bytram made sure to tick *that* box
[02:06:00] <Bytram> cmn32480: thanks again for all the help!
[02:06:05] <cmn32480> from in front of the wii downstairs
[02:06:08] <Bytram> backup is done.
[02:06:08] <cmn32480> back in a bit
[02:06:16] <Bytram> and.. I'll be heading to bed
[02:06:29] <Bytram> Deucalion: thanks for the support and encouragement!
[02:06:30] <cmn32480> ~gnight Bytram
[02:06:32] * exec brazenly poops a spoon of glowballs for Bytram
[02:06:49] <Deucalion> takyon, I keep hearing that we are down to almost the limit of silicon shrinkage, in that the lines are almost down to the size of an electron. But I've been hearing that for 10 years, so who knows.
[02:06:50] <Bytram> o_O
[02:07:09] <Bytram> IBM has 7nm in development atm
[02:07:27] <takyon> there are a few ways to get more performance from classical computing
[02:07:30] <Bytram> well in research, but they have made devises at that size
[02:07:33] <Deucalion> cmn32480, do you tend to use the expanding vdi to suit or the fixed size?
[02:08:05] <Bytram> oh, and a silly question, but is there a way to run a VDI on linux?
[02:08:21] <Deucalion> run a VDI?
[02:09:01] <Bytram> well wrong term. if I gets things all set up nice and how i like them, is there a way to take this virtual machine which is currenytly running on windows and have it run on linux?
[02:09:03] <takyon> possible orders of magnitude speedup from moving to optical or non-silicon. chips could reach 1 THz max clock speeds. definite orders of magnitude improvement if stacked/3D chips can be made using a new material or process
[02:09:35] <Deucalion> VirtualBox runs on linux the same as on Windows. You can move a VDI from a Win host to a Linux host and it will run fine.
[02:09:47] <Bytram> nice!
[02:10:04] <Bytram> alternatively, is there a way to turn a VM into a native (bare metal) OS?
[02:10:12] <takyon> and some more scaling. 14nm is done, 10nm production is ramping up, 7nm seems to work, then you get to talk about 5nm, 3nm, 2nm, 1nm, 0.5nm
[02:10:15] <Bytram> hmm, nvm.
[02:10:44] <Deucalion> There are also tools to mount a vdi as a disk or partition and put it in the filesystem. It is just a disk image after all.
[02:10:49] <Bytram> at that point, I'd rather have a small, stable hypervisor and run everything in VMs
[02:10:54] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:11:06] <Bytram> okay, my brain is toast and I am tired.
[02:11:21] <Deucalion> Sleep soundly fellow traveller :)
[02:11:22] <Bytram> back to work tomorrow and for the 3 days following. I'll peek in as I can.
[02:11:28] <Bytram> have a great weekend everybody!
[02:12:14] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[02:13:51] <Deucalion> Turning a VM into a bare metal install.... ~shrug~ never tried it... logically it should just be a case of blasting the vdi to a physical partition then pointing the bootloader at it. I'm sure it is possible... as to exactly how... ~shrug~
[02:13:57] <Bytram|away> takyon: good luck on the apt hunt! have a good night.
[02:14:02] <takyon> thanks
[02:14:47] <Bytram|away> never hurts to let friends know that you are looking; word-of-mouth is still king in some ways.
[02:15:09] <Bytram|away> g'night!
[02:18:33] <Deucalion> takyon, 3D stacked flash based storage (SSDs) are already an off the shelf thing no?
[02:18:45] <takyon> yes
[02:19:01] <takyon> Samsung is leading, the rest should be following within the next couple of quarters
[02:21:21] <Deucalion> Clever (or obvious) way to reduce the path lengths, then the bus becomes the bottleneck again - hence I guess why we are seeing PCI-E connected flash drives.
[02:25:47] <cmn32480> Deucalion - I always use the expanding disk. keeps my backup windows smaller
[02:27:28] <Deucalion> makes sense
[03:05:51] -!- nick has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[13:26:33] zz_janrinok is now known as janrinok
[13:26:44] <janrinok> hi guys
[14:57:33] janrinok is now known as janrinok_afk
[17:15:46] janrinok_afk is now known as janrinok
[17:15:53] <janrinok> cmn32480: !!
[17:24:05] <cmn32480> janrinok !!
[17:24:11] <janrinok> how's things?
[17:24:35] <cmn32480> no hurricane... so that's good
[17:25:02] <janrinok> yes, looks like it missed you
[17:25:20] <cmn32480> and I am not sad about that at all
[17:25:35] <janrinok> at least you have tested your genny, and have all the emergency provisions ready for next time
[17:26:12] <cmn32480> well.. the milk might not last until the next time... but the TP will!
[17:26:23] <janrinok> lol
[17:26:37] <janrinok> plans for the weekend?
[17:26:42] <cmn32480> yup
[17:26:47] <cmn32480> J has a list of chorse for me
[17:26:57] <janrinok> of course, goes without saying
[17:27:17] <cmn32480> and I have to get the pilot program finished for a custoemr so I can install it next week
[17:27:31] <janrinok> ah, on your travels again
[17:27:36] <cmn32480> never stops
[17:27:47] <cmn32480> jsut got handed a couple trips to Kentucky too
[17:27:56] <cmn32480> dunno when they are gonna happen
[17:28:13] <janrinok> near to any of the SN staff?
[17:28:48] <cmn32480> dunno.... I don't knwo where the sites are yet, except "Kentucky"
[17:30:52] <janrinok> J and the kids well?
[17:31:04] <cmn32480> they are doing well
[17:31:14] <cmn32480> how about you and S? quiet weekend?
[17:32:09] <janrinok> quiet so far, just doing a spot of coding, and did some work in the garden earlier today. Now settled in for the evening
[17:32:42] <cmn32480> sounds like a decent afternoon
[17:33:02] <janrinok> yep, weather is beginning to change, but the rain shouldn't arrive before Monday
[17:33:18] <cmn32480> cold here today
[17:33:22] <cmn32480> ~weather baltimore
[17:33:24] <exec> 03Baltimore, MD, USA - currently 54°F / 12°C, cloudy, wind NE at 20 mph, humidity 90% - Saturday cloudy (52°F:56°F / 11°C:13°C), Sunday cloudy (51°F:61°F / 11°C:16°C), Monday partly cloudy (49°F:67°F / 9°C:19°C), Tuesday partly cloudy (56°F:72°F / 13°C:22°C)
[17:34:00] <janrinok> and not looking as if it will change in the next day or two for you, either
[17:34:20] <janrinok> ~weather St Brieuc
[17:34:22] <exec> 03Saint-Brieuc, France - currently 57°F / 14°C, sunny, wind N at 4 mph, humidity 81% - Saturday clear with periodic clouds (48°F:63°F / 9°C:17°C), Sunday showers (56°F:63°F / 13°C:17°C), Monday rain (58°F:65°F / 14°C:18°C), Tuesday showers (51°F:62°F / 11°C:17°C)
[17:34:54] <janrinok> probably the nearest place it would know to where I live
[17:35:07] <cmn32480> 'bout the same
[17:35:24] <janrinok> yep, but to us that is good weather, to you it is cold
[17:35:40] <cmn32480> for the beginning of October it is a bit cold
[17:36:02] <cmn32480> but the Farmers Almanac says it is gonna be a crummy winter here, so I'll tzake what I can get
[17:37:36] <cmn32480> ahh well... I'm jsut hoping we get a lot of snow all at once, instead of getting a couple inches at a time 15 times
[17:38:27] <janrinok> how does it make a difference?
[17:38:44] <cmn32480> cold isn't the issue
[17:39:13] <cmn32480> when there is a few inches at a time, the kids have no school, I have to fire up the snow blower each time, and it is a general pain in the ass
[17:39:33] <janrinok> you are firing it up wrong ...
[17:39:42] <janrinok> try standing behind it
[17:39:45] <cmn32480> one or two big storms means that I get to fire up the snow blower once or twice, and then we are done.
[17:40:01] <cmn32480> plus, a good snowfall means we can build snowmen adn sled
[17:40:23] <janrinok> if we get snow here, it normally disappears within 12 hours. Being coastal has its advantages
[17:40:32] <cmn32480> a few inches just makes things difficult, but it isn't enough to have fun in
[17:40:44] <janrinok> that's what she said
[17:40:46] <cmn32480> i pulled it up on google maps
[17:40:53] <cmn32480> ZING
[17:41:13] <janrinok> St B?
[17:41:16] <cmn32480> yup
[17:41:28] <cmn32480> just to get a general location
[17:42:11] <cmn32480> I konw not nearly enough about the geography of France to know wher that was without looking it up
[17:42:21] <janrinok> drive north, and you will see Paimpol. I live within 15 minutes of there
[17:43:00] <cmn32480> after zooming in, i see that
[17:43:33] <cmn32480> all these funny sounding names... you'd think it was a different language or something
[17:43:56] <janrinok> yep, and wait until you hear them speak!
[17:44:29] <cmn32480> bet that's a trip... '
[17:44:46] <janrinok> They also have their own language here too. Breton is still spoken by about 25% of the population. It is closely related to Welsh, Cornish, and Irish gaelic
[17:45:02] <cmn32480> interesting
[17:45:15] <janrinok> but completely indecipherable
[17:45:24] <cmn32480> unless you speak it
[17:45:35] <janrinok> I'm not even sure about that...
[17:45:46] <janrinok> They could be making it up
[17:46:00] <cmn32480> just to mess wiht foreigners?
[17:46:22] <janrinok> exactly, and with foreign Frenchies from other Departements
[17:46:57] <janrinok> They hate Parisians, unless the tourists are spending money
[17:47:12] <cmn32480> doesn't everybody hate Parisians?
[17:47:30] <janrinok> yes, but this is a different degree of hate
[17:47:42] <cmn32480> it is my understanding (no first hand experience, mind you) that they are what has created the stereotype of the snooty frenchman
[17:48:02] <cmn32480> like drag them into a dark alley kind of hate?
[17:48:12] <janrinok> probably, although the stereotype does exist almost everywhere
[17:48:32] <janrinok> if they thought that they wouldn't get caught, it wouldn't surprise me
[17:48:42] <cmn32480> wow...
[17:49:43] <janrinok> My neighbours are actually from Paris, although she was born here and moved to Paris when she married. When they return to their home here, they have to put their Paris registered car in the garage, and drive a car with local plates
[17:50:09] <cmn32480> that's unreal
[17:50:17] <janrinok> Otherwise, they get treated just like 'real' Parisians
[17:51:03] <cmn32480> crazy
[17:51:06] <janrinok> I think the Parisians deserve it in the main - they display a remarkable degree of arrogance to any frenchman who doesn't live in the capital
[17:51:54] <janrinok> as for me, they simply ignore me and hope that I will go away. The locals, on the other hand, have made us both very welcome
[17:52:07] <janrinok> its a strange world
[17:52:21] <cmn32480> everywhere is a stragne world
[17:52:31] <cmn32480> differnt parts of it are just different strange
[17:52:39] <janrinok> true
[17:53:24] <cmn32480> I'm gettnig the stink eye
[17:53:34] <janrinok> time to go do some work?
[17:53:37] <cmn32480> apparently talk ing to you is not part of my chores
[17:53:53] <cmn32480> who'd a thunk it?
[17:53:54] <janrinok> send her my best wishes and apologies for distracting you
[17:54:00] <cmn32480> I shall
[17:54:18] <cmn32480> my best to S, try to relax... all that gardening is stressful
[17:54:39] <janrinok> I'll battle on with my gardening stress quite happily thanks
[17:54:48] <cmn32480> I bet
[17:54:51] <cmn32480> :-)
[17:55:13] <janrinok> take care, laters maybe
[17:55:13] <cmn32480> take it easy janrinok
[17:55:27] <cmn32480> odds are you will be zz_janrinok before I get back
[17:55:32] <janrinok> yep
[17:55:41] <cmn32480> perhaps tomorrow
[17:55:47] <cmn32480> be safe, my friend
[17:55:51] <janrinok> k, see you maybe then.
[17:55:55] <janrinok> and you
[17:56:05] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|chores
[18:38:37] janrinok is now known as zz_janrinok