#editorial | Logs for 2015-06-01
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[11:40:44] <janrinok> NOTICE TO ALL EDITORS: When you second edit a story from the story list, it takes you to a different nexus. When you save the story, you remain in the new nexus and only see those stories that also exist in that nexus. You have to return to the front page and reselect the story list in order to get back to the full list
[11:51:57] <janrinok> This is only obvious when editing a story that has a nexus other than Main Page / Skin == _none. Try editing one the the meta stories, updating it, and see the resulting display for a better idea of the problem
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[12:27:31] <CoolHand> janrinok|afk: thanks for the heads up!
[13:26:10] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[14:04:46] <janrinok> 1702 and counting - Yipee. I'm going to get ever so tipsy on 2000!
[14:05:53] <janrinok> getting 500s, 503s for about 5 seconds
[14:06:23] <janrinok> guru meditation XID: 1486369671
[14:08:58] -!- n1 [n1!~nick@Soylent/Staff/Editor/n1] has joined #editorial
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[14:19:37] <n1> g'day
[14:21:12] <paulej72> I think I fixed the login bug. you will need to relogin
[14:21:16] <janrinok> nick high
[14:21:21] <janrinok> hi
[14:21:45] <janrinok> we are having a few site probs following an update. Expect the unexpected
[14:21:58] <n1> howdy janrinok
[14:22:07] <janrinok> you have a good week?
[14:22:09] <n1> not rushing to check the site just yet, only just got back
[14:22:18] <n1> need a shower, for the first time in a week...
[14:22:30] <n1> yeah, everything was good thanks
[14:22:36] <janrinok> no rush, stories good until tomorrow, and it's more a case of finding the bugs
[14:22:48] <n1> im not even opening my work emails today, heh
[14:23:00] <n1> everything good with you?
[14:23:53] <janrinok> not a good week last week - but it looks like things are getting resolved
[14:24:04] <n1> :( sorry to hear that
[14:26:04] <janrinok> a bit of a backlash regarding editing and how others perceive our role. I think the community has now spoken and the few dissenters are silenced for the time being. Minor format changes will achieve the change required
[14:26:27] <n1> i did check the site while i was away, and saw the latest 'hang the editors' post
[14:26:33] <n1> and i cant say i was all that excited to see it..
[14:27:13] <janrinok> juggs put out a story to the community and the majority came back with a resounding vote of confidence so to speak
[14:27:24] <n1> yeah, thats what i saw
[14:27:49] <n1> i was a bit confused as to why that needed to be done after the previous 2 stories last weekend
[14:28:05] <n1> my first impression was 'ah fuck this shit'
[14:28:51] <janrinok> well, I was a bit close to taking a long break, but what I see as commonsense prevailled. I actually caused it, of course, so I couldn't just not be involved.
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[14:29:02] <janrinok> hi LaminatorX !
[14:29:11] <LaminatorX> Howdy.
[14:29:14] <n1> i felt it was dealt with conclusively previously
[14:29:21] <n1> which is why i was quite frustrated to see it come up yet again
[14:29:22] <janrinok> how's things with you stranger?
[14:29:35] <LaminatorX> Calming down a bit, finally.
[14:29:40] <n1> the first mountain out of a molehill wasn't good enough, so another had to be constructed...
[14:29:43] <n1> ahoy, LaminatorX
[14:29:49] <janrinok> n1: agreed, some view it as their own mouthpiece site
[14:30:12] <janrinok> they didn't like the fact that we have to edit
[14:30:26] <n1> if we keep doing things like that, its going to damage the site and community, letting a very small minority have the loudest voice
[14:30:50] <janrinok> LaminatorX: finally got some space to breathe again?
[14:31:21] * LaminatorX inhales, then exhales.
[14:31:26] <n1> mistakes are made, we admit them and apologise when they happen, we shouldnt have to review every bit of the process every time an error happens.
[14:31:28] <janrinok> sounds good to me!
[14:32:10] <LaminatorX> What's the current connundrum?
[14:32:24] <janrinok> Long story short?
[14:32:26] <n1> LaminatorX, just referencing the story juggs put out about the editorial process
[14:32:41] <n1> which i only caught while i was away, which was frustrating
[14:32:57] <janrinok> I made an editorial error about 10 days ago. Admitted it, apologised, and moved on.
[14:32:59] <n1> after i thought we'd drawn a line under that situation with the previous weekends discussions
[14:33:48] <n1> 'are SN editors overstepping the mark?' was the end of the situation as far as i thought
[14:34:03] <janrinok> Some in the community 'discovered' that we edit submissions and felt that we shouldn't alter personal views , tone or thrust. I pointed out the submission shouldn't contain personal views, tone or thrust but should be an accurate unbiased view of the source material
[14:34:48] <janrinok> a minority felt that whatever they write should just go straight to the front page. Not going to happen!
[14:35:17] <janrinok> but we do now link to the original submission below each story - although there are some potential risks with that.
[14:35:30] <n1> im going to shower, back in 10
[14:35:45] * LaminatorX looks over the story while lamenting his shamefully lacking engagement of late.
[14:35:55] <janrinok> we cannot edit submissions, only the stories we make out of them, so any dubious links means the entire sub gets rejected now
[14:37:10] <janrinok> LaminatorX: to be honest, you were better off out of it. Unfortunately, at the time, both mrcoolbp and NCommander were away so I was trying to fight the fire alone, having caused the problem in the first place. Didn't give me much of an edge in the debate that followed.
[14:38:32] <LaminatorX> What they're complaining about is nothing we havent been doing since day one.
[14:39:06] <janrinok> A point I made several times - some accused us of putting our own spin on all of their subs
[14:40:19] <janrinok> we have had a software update. Now using rehash - Apache2 etc.
[14:40:46] <janrinok> we also have nexuses as of today - but the update has introduced a fair number of bugs which didn't show on dev
[14:41:07] <LaminatorX> I had a little trouble logging in. Seems to have calmed a bit though.
[14:41:49] <janrinok> that is one of the bugs! paulej72 is fighting the good fight on #dev, NCommander has finally gone to get some sleep after another mammoth session during the upgrade
[14:42:58] <janrinok> we also have IP6 - not that it will affect me here in France - and a few other nice bits
[14:47:00] <janrinok> LaminatorX: S has just asked me to say 'Hello' to you from her
[14:49:17] <LaminatorX> How lovely of her.
[14:49:41] <janrinok> you see, you were not forgotten!
[14:50:44] <n1> and now i'm clean, ya'll shouldn't be able to smell me from the other side of the channel or pond.
[14:51:00] <janrinok> I wasn't going to mention it earlier....
[14:51:50] <n1> actually wasn't too bad this time, between being rained on and using the land rover to get around site, wasn't too sweaty
[14:52:44] <n1> is nice to feel clean though
[14:53:26] <janrinok> A good concert?
[14:53:43] <janrinok> festival, I mean
[14:54:03] <n1> it was fine, nothing really amazing, but wasnt expecting it to be
[14:54:25] <n1> but all the work stuff went well, which was the important bit
[14:54:35] <n1> i am not great with 8am starts though
[14:54:52] <n1> especially when people insist on talking to me
[14:55:12] <janrinok> lol
[14:55:48] <n1> silence is golden for the first 2 hours of my day
[14:55:58] <janrinok> that and coffee, eh?
[14:56:15] <n1> water
[14:56:17] <n1> dont drink coffee
[14:57:01] <LaminatorX> Nice to see that the new lads have been working out.
[14:57:18] <n1> and i actually drink tea less and less these days, cant go wrong with cool refeshing life saving water
[14:57:36] <n1> LaminatorX, indeed
[14:58:27] <janrinok> LaminatorX: yep they are a good bunch and we all work together well
[14:58:43] <janrinok> makes the job so much easier too
[14:58:50] <n1> was a great relief to see the new guys doing well, have been out of it myself as work has been pulling me in varying directions and just havnt had the time or energy to contribute as much as i would like recently
[15:00:10] <LaminatorX> I've been checking in in the morning and evening as usual, and it's been nice to not have to post half-a dozen stories before bed time.
[15:00:29] <n1> aye
[15:02:28] <LaminatorX> Alright, I'm through the trouble threads. What were your takeaways from the ordeal?
[15:03:03] <janrinok> Well, a few format changes.
[15:03:28] <n1> including a link to the original submission is a good/the right thing to do
[15:03:35] <n1> but otherwise, from everything i saw
[15:03:48] <janrinok> I think we have agreed on 'NICKNAME suggest the following story' or something similar to avoid it having to be their own words or nothing
[15:03:55] <n1> apart from one user and 1 AC that seems intent on sabotaging the site, no one else had a problem with what we're doing
[15:04:17] <n1> and yeah, varying the 'x writes:'
[15:04:21] <n1> as it's not always appropriate
[15:04:29] <janrinok> Some have the view that an editor should only correct spelling mistakes, check links work etc
[15:04:41] <LaminatorX> A bot could do that.
[15:05:02] <n1> i think that 'some' is very much in the minority
[15:05:02] <janrinok> I believe and have said that my job is to turn an unacceptable submission into an acceptable story
[15:05:44] <janrinok> If that means removing bias, inaccuracies or inflamatory comments then so be it
[15:06:20] <janrinok> I think the silent majority have always supported that, but it wasn't until jugg's story that they spoke our
[15:06:24] <janrinok> out*
[15:07:24] <janrinok> I've got to be a bit more careful on attribution, but it was a genuine mistake and I have apologised for it. Lesson learned there
[15:08:29] <LaminatorX> It's a tricky balance to flense away the gratuitous flamebait while still allowing submittors to make a stAtement about the story., but it remains a worthwhile task, IMO.
[15:08:43] <janrinok> and we definately need some way of providing feedback to the submitters. One suggestion is an additional web page, showing subs followed by a text box which we can put messages in. If they want it it is there for them, if they don't they can ignore it
[15:09:31] <janrinok> It gets around the spam emails / having to build a messaging system from scratch debates
[15:10:07] <janrinok> ...and I must learn to spell/type, looking back over the last few lines!
[15:10:32] <LaminatorX> IRC is stream of conshusnus.
[15:10:53] <janrinok> I think you mis-spelled IRC, but I'm not 2 shure
[15:11:08] <LaminatorX> I like the "Rejected queue" idea.
[15:11:36] <janrinok> it keeps it simple and can largely be automated. When we reject, we simply say why
[15:11:52] <janrinok> we can also ask that it be re-written, links updated or whatever
[15:12:05] <n1> i like the intent behind a lot of these ideas
[15:12:15] <n1> but it's hard to keep things on-topic and getting enough subs as it is
[15:12:21] <n1> without making it more convoluted
[15:13:23] <n1> i think it's worked quite well so far, if a submitter has a problem, they comment on the story and we can make our case, or admit a mistake
[15:13:28] <n1> and it's there for everyone to see
[15:13:40] <janrinok> LaminatorX: another change is that we are keeping the submission list low and posting stories well in advance. The smaller submission list encourages more subs, even though they can see that the next 12 hours is fully taken care of
[15:14:12] <janrinok> More than 4 or 5 subs in the queue and they slow down their efforts
[15:14:40] <LaminatorX> Seems reasonable.
[15:14:48] <n1> i dont get that, but whatever, if thats what people do
[15:16:36] <janrinok> but we have a relatively small number of regular contributors. If you recall in the early days we would get concerned when the list nagger appeared, now we frequently only have a handfull of stories, usually from the same old names.
[15:16:52] <LaminatorX> The nagger, while effective, promotes a only-what-is-minimally-necessary approach to submitting.
[15:17:05] <n1> maybe we should get rid of the nagger
[15:17:19] <n1> there's good and bad to it
[15:17:43] <n1> but if people are basing it off the queue, then the nagger is mostly irrelevant
[15:17:44] <janrinok> well it never disappears nowadays. But I would hold on a while to see what effect the nexuses have. Many are not sure what their value will be.
[15:18:47] <LaminatorX> They will be valuable to people who only want tech news.
[15:18:49] <n1> diversity is what i see from the nexuses
[15:19:49] <n1> nexuses should make 'doesn't belong on this site' arguments irrelevant
[15:20:05] <janrinok> I put a warning out on here a few hours ago. If you edit a story with a nexus other than Main Page, when you save the story the list will only contain other stories with the same nexus. It does not default to the full story list again. This is a bit of a bind when 2nd ed'ing. You have to return to the front page and request the story list page from there to get the full list again.
[15:20:26] <LaminatorX> It will be interesting to see if we get enough content to fill them meaningfully.
[15:20:48] <janrinok> well, if current submission rates are anything to go by, I would guess not
[15:21:22] <n1> will take some time to have an effect, if any
[15:21:33] <janrinok> I'm working on a program that skims rss-bot and I am now trying to parse the stories out of the links. A sort of automatic story writer - but some way to go yet
[15:21:35] <n1> but people might be more inclined to submit stories of passing interest
[15:22:18] <n1> just because we cant have a big discussion on a story doesnt mean it's not worth people seeing, and i'd think it would make people more inclined to post things of varied topics
[15:22:31] <n1> rather than trying to fit in whatever niche they believe the site fills
[15:23:21] <janrinok> I think paulej72 mentioned this morning that some editors might only have permissions for some nexuses. It is not practical yet, but we might find some eds are happier concentrating on specific nexuses.
[15:23:57] <janrinok> I don't think anyone has thought it through to a conclusion there, but it is a possibility
[15:23:57] <takyon> the plan is that weaker editers, like nexus owners, will only have powers within a specific nexus scope
[15:23:59] <n1> it would be better in some ways, editors can focus on the topics they are more aware of
[15:24:06] <LaminatorX> Things would have to be very different for us to have that kind of volume/staffing relationship.
[15:24:14] <n1> indeed, LaminatorX
[15:24:26] <n1> but i think we cant have one without the other either
[15:24:29] <janrinok> yep, exciting but challenging stuff
[15:25:58] <janrinok> n1: LaminatorX: I don't know if you noticed but we hit our funding target yesterday. One very generous sub of $1000 but we will not discuss who it was on this chan
[15:25:59] <n1> if we have the nexuses up and working, then we might find people will be more interesting in editing, if they can focus on the areas they know about
[15:26:16] <n1> i did see that, was a very pleasant surprise
[15:26:23] <janrinok> n1: that is the idea.
[15:27:45] <janrinok> takyon: how much success are you having on parsing stories from links. I've got a similar project but still getting too much rubbish for it to be considered good enough for real use.
[15:27:47] <n1> which is pretty much what i said when i first joined the team
[15:28:02] <n1> i'm not a coder, nor am i a scientist
[15:28:08] <janrinok> we are getting there...
[15:28:48] <n1> but when it comes to business/technomics and such, thats where i can do my best work, i think
[15:28:59] <takyon> if you're talking about summly, I haven't attempted something like that
[15:29:00] <takyon> however
[15:29:22] <takyon> I have had some success with extracting a "tag" (or topic) from a story using a set of keywords for each tag
[15:30:07] <cmn32480> ok kids.. I am back. yeesh what a morning
[15:30:25] <LaminatorX> Nice to see we got the funding through July sorted by June, yes.
[15:30:27] <n1> hey there cmn32480
[15:30:36] <cmn32480> heya n1... how's life
[15:30:44] <cmn32480> pardon if I don't read the back scroll
[15:31:07] <n1> life is alright, back from living in a field, for a couple weeks
[15:31:12] <janrinok> --poutine has just joined #soylent - long time since I've seen him on here
[15:31:13] <n1> hows things for you?
[15:31:25] <cmn32480> last night janrinok
[15:31:36] <takyon> last night was suffering
[15:31:47] <janrinok> last night?
[15:31:49] <cmn32480> he was being quite the pita
[15:32:00] <n1> how i havn't missed that...
[15:32:08] <janrinok> he's been quiet for a few months.
[15:32:16] <cmn32480> wish he'd be quite for a few more
[15:32:34] <janrinok> not sure if he is the real thing, but if he was being a pita then it sounds likely!
[15:32:36] <cmn32480> n1: been good. busy as hell w/ work
[15:32:46] <cmn32480> we are pretty sure it was the real thing
[15:33:36] <LaminatorX> I noticed him sign in, and then be still. He's a pain, but he's also often right about things.
[15:33:44] <janrinok> got to go and do some cooking! laters guys.
[15:33:55] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[15:33:57] <LaminatorX> I suppose that's true of most pessimists.
[15:34:22] <n1> well, we're still going and have paid the bills
[15:34:26] <takyon> check out this incredibly useful macro: http://puu.sh
[15:34:28] <n1> so he's wrong about the biggest things
[15:34:46] <LaminatorX> Where he (and many pessimists) misses the mark is failing to acknowledge that the problems they point out may in fact be solvable.
[15:35:24] <cmn32480> last night he was being a dick just to be a dick. we were all having a bit of fun and he came in and ruined all of our good time
[15:35:47] <n1> i assume cmn32480 is right
[15:36:11] <n1> i'm a pessimist, but poutine is mostly just a dick
[15:36:44] <cmn32480> and very nice to meet you LaminatorX
[15:36:52] <LaminatorX> You too.
[15:37:14] <LaminatorX> Thanks for pitching in, I've appreciated your contributions.
[15:37:15] <takyon> http://puu.sh
[15:38:22] <LaminatorX> I'm double grateful for the more experienced hands for getting the new blood up and running in my absence.
[15:38:47] <cmn32480> doing what I can. We all throw in as we are able. You've been tossing a few in the queue as you have been available as well we've seen
[15:39:35] <cmn32480> we are grateful for their guidance as well. janrinok and mrcoolbp have been a tremendous help in getting us going
[15:40:50] <n1> you're lucky i wasnt around ;)
[15:41:12] <cmn32480> yes, yes we are
[15:41:54] <cmn32480> but we were glad when you came back n1
[15:42:43] <n1> it made me very happy to see in my absence it wasn't all left to janrinok, Bytram and our dear leader LaminatorX
[15:45:51] <LaminatorX> So, now that we have nexuses (nexi?) working, what thoughts do we have as to what makes for a story that wouldn't go on the main page?
[15:46:50] <takyon> before even that, how do we anticipate how "Breaking" will be used?
[15:47:02] <takyon> is the advantage of separating Breaking from Main so that users can filter it out?
[15:47:22] <takyon> if we just posted breaking stories every 20 minutes, hypothetically
[15:47:29] * n1 knows nothing about the current implementation of nexuses
[15:48:18] <LaminatorX> I can see someone wanting to just monitor "Breaking" via RSS, while checking in the main page once or twice a day.
[15:49:17] <takyon> is the RSS feed broken for you lot
[15:49:24] <takyon> mine gives me malformed URLs
[15:52:52] <n1> i dont use the rss as i spend most of the time looking at the stories queue anyway
[15:53:41] <LaminatorX> Same here.
[15:54:29] <takyon> it's faster for me since I have 20 other feeds in a single menu
[15:54:43] <LaminatorX> One thing I can see is moderating a glut of stories on the same topic in the main feed by shunting excess to topic-nexus-only.
[15:54:52] <n1> i'd assume most of us here are more interested in the stuff that hasnt hit the RSS yet
[15:55:02] <LaminatorX> That sort of implies that we have anough story volume to be choosey.
[15:55:31] <takyon> nexus feature should increase story volume and userbase
[15:55:40] <n1> aye x2
[15:55:48] <takyon> if it doesn't we cry ourselves to sleep
[15:55:55] <n1> lol
[15:56:49] <LaminatorX> It also is unlikely to be the case that interest in all nexus topics is equal. Some are more popular than others.
[15:57:50] <n1> news is not a popularity contest
[16:00:32] <LaminatorX> True, there's a balance to be struck by shaping the information flow in a usefulle informative way and also in a pleasing to the reader way. Those priorities are sometimes at odds, even before you get into the diversity of tastes among the community.
[16:01:02] <n1> agree
[16:01:53] <LaminatorX> (Though again, if the story submission volume continues to hover in the just-enough neighborhood this is all just noise.)
[16:02:00] <n1> as ive mentioned before, ive removed clickbait headlines before, and im sure that has meant less comments overall
[16:02:06] <n1> but i really do not appreciate that kind of shit
[16:02:50] <n1> a good story can be ruined by a bad summary and/or misleading headline
[16:02:59] <n1> but a good story doesn't always generate lots of discussion
[16:03:17] <n1> as you said, the priorities are at odds sometimes
[16:04:25] <LaminatorX> I wonder how far the keep-the-queue-low approach would keep driving submissions. If we were to pace out stories to main at roughly 90-minute intervals, only going as far as the current day, and shunt the excess to the topic nexuses, would the subs keep coming?
[16:06:08] <n1> wouldnt like to say really
[16:06:22] <n1> i think it's all a double edged sword when it comes to encouraging submissions
[16:06:49] <LaminatorX> it might be worth an experiment once the bugs get shaken out of the update.
[16:07:23] <n1> i would say stuff like 'version x of y released' and other press release type stuff
[16:07:37] <n1> should go to the nexuses and not the main page most of the time
[16:07:42] <LaminatorX> It might end up as still "just-enough" with a slightly larger value for enough and a bunch of staries with barely any views because they aren't on Mai.
[16:07:46] <n1> but it's a subjective story by story thing
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[16:13:59] <LaminatorX> I was talking to myself there for a bit, I think.
[16:15:10] <takyon> yes'
[16:16:21] <cmn32480> do we have enough volume at this point to have stories in only a nexus? or is this going to be main page + nexus?
[16:16:22] <LaminatorX> I'm uncertain of the utility of topic-nexus-only stories at our present volume. It strikes me as something that made sense for /.'s tens or hundreds of thousands of people and hundreds of submissions, but less so for out thousands and dozens.
[16:16:42] <takyon> http://soylentnews.org
[16:16:42] <pants--> ^ 03SN article: Key Sections of the USA PATRIOT Act Expired - For Now 04(2 comments)
[16:16:50] <takyon> kinda broken article here
[16:17:01] <cmn32480> the measure of a man's genius is how much he agrees with you....
[16:17:48] <takyon> I don't know if Phoenix666 or SoylentNews dropped the spaghetti with that original submission #2
[16:20:07] <n1> can fix?
[16:20:17] <n1> https://www.congress.gov
[16:20:18] <pants--> ^ 03H.R.2048 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): USA FREEDOM Act of 2015 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
[16:21:01] <takyon> yeah put that one in
[16:21:05] <takyon> better than nothing
[16:21:10] <n1> that is the link
[16:21:12] <LaminatorX> I'm off to lunch. For now, lets do Topic+Main unless you feel like a story is of truly marginal general interest. We might do some more experiments once the bits settle on the update.
[16:21:14] <n1> not sure where the unicode stuff came from
[16:21:35] <n1> i'll fix it now
[16:21:39] LaminatorX is now known as LamX|afk
[16:22:06] <n1> will also include link to TFS
[16:22:14] <n1> as it appears to be missing for sub#2
[16:22:17] <n1> TFA even
[16:22:36] <n1> it's a copy/paste from http://arstechnica.com
[16:22:36] <pants--> ^* 03Senate impasse: NSA spy tactics—including phone records collection—expiring | Ars Technica ( http://arstechnica.com )
[16:25:21] <n1> see what you think now, takyon
[16:25:44] <takyon> cached, wait a moment
[16:28:28] <takyon> that's better
[16:28:57] <n1> are we ok with h tags now?
[16:29:21] <n1> i recall before using <h3> tags broke something
[16:29:41] <n1> cant remember what exactly, just paulej72 saying to avoid using them
[16:30:03] <takyon> those are automatic when merging stories
[16:31:14] <n1> i know
[16:31:19] <n1> but we were told to remove them before
[16:31:23] <n1> because they broke something
[16:32:32] <takyon> breaking search maybe?
[16:32:34] <n1> this was many many months ago, so things may have changed
[16:32:37] <n1> that sounds about right
[16:32:43] <takyon> nobody's bothered to remove them for months AFAIK
[16:33:03] <n1> i might have been the only person here when paulej72 mentioned it
[16:33:35] <n1> i remove them entirely usually, as a story doesnt need two headlines after the headline
[16:33:44] <takyon> search is already a mess anyway. it will probably all work after it is revamped
[16:33:52] <takyon> well yeah
[16:33:52] <n1> depends on the submission, it's a story by story thing
[16:33:57] <n1> as nearly every editorial decision is
[16:54:08] <CoolHand> I never removed any h tags...
[16:56:09] <n1> CoolHand, it's not a big deal and they only appear automatically on merged stories
[16:57:21] <CoolHand> just sayin I never heard anyone complain on my merged stories (which I assume got the h tags added in)
[16:57:21] <paulej72> Actually Breaking news can not be hidden by a user.
[16:58:08] <n1> paulej72 can answer this, if h tags are still a problem
[16:58:33] <n1> CoolHand, think it only affects search, and as most of the community doesnt use the search feature
[16:58:36] <n1> and is broken in other ways
[16:58:41] <n1> it's not that much of a big issue
[16:59:07] <paulej72> I did not change the h tags, but they are mostly a problem for screen readers as they hevily use the heddings to prioritize info
[16:59:36] <n1> paulej72, i only brought it up as i recall one time you mentioned we should remove them for some reason
[16:59:39] <n1> which you did explain at the time
[16:59:42] <n1> but it was many months ago
[17:00:09] <paulej72> not remove but change to h4s when doing the merge
[17:00:39] <n1> that sounds familiar
[17:00:44] <n1> i think i changed them to <b> in the past
[17:01:01] <n1> but usually on merges i just remove them anyway, as a story doesnt need 3 headlines
[17:01:08] <n1> especially when 2/3 are the exact same
[17:01:18] <n1> or they're all extremely similar
[17:02:29] <CoolHand> yea, it's actually possible I removed them unintentionally for that same reason..
[17:03:55] <n1> usually its fairly easy as the subs tend to be blockquotes, so it's not a huge deal, and some merges have been made into one summary
[17:04:12] <n1> x and y writes:
[17:04:16] <n1> sort of thing
[17:05:35] <n1> i have updated the patriot act story to <h4> tags
[17:23:33] <janrinok|afk> n1: is h4 or h3 tags that cause the problem in the db
[17:23:35] <janrinok|afk> ?
[17:28:53] <n1> h3
[17:29:48] <paulej72> nothing causes a problem in the db as far as I know
[17:30:13] <CoolHand> w00t!
[17:30:21] * CoolHand rushed to use all available h tags!
[17:30:29] <CoolHand> rushes grr - st00pid fingers
[17:33:10] <janrinok|afk> paulej72: I wonder where that rumour came from then. It was only about 3 months or so back
[17:34:05] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[17:34:57] <paulej72> I mentioned that h3's in the intro text were under the h3 in the story title and should be h4s to make screen readers happy
[17:35:57] <janrinok> ah, by the time it reached me it was more 'h3s cause a problem' ....
[17:43:47] <n1> i was only going off my memory from many months ago
[17:44:05] <janrinok> np - I don't know where I heard it first
[17:44:19] <n1> if i get told not to use something, i dont question why when it comes to this site
[17:44:44] <janrinok> exactly, we can't be on 24 hours a day, and decisions get made when we are not here
[17:45:40] LamX|afk is now known as LaminatorX
[17:45:53] <janrinok> wb LamX
[17:46:06] <LaminatorX> thanks.
[17:46:56] <janrinok> have you had any time to do open mike performances recently?
[17:47:18] <CoolHand> how's the spellcheck feature work? anyone? I selected "learn" on the boxes and thought after the next preview, it would come back without them, but seemed to have no effect..
[17:49:01] <janrinok> good question - I use the spellchecker built into the browser. Without a continuous exchange with the SN server, how could it work?
[17:49:40] <CoolHand> janrinok: that's usually what I use also... just thought I'd make use of the nifty new feature, but I ain't smart enuff to figger it out
[17:49:46] <cmn32480> it points to the words you need to go look up in the dictionary.
[17:49:51] <janrinok> I think it is just telling you to either select Learn in your local dictionary, or at least lets you select an alternative...?
[17:51:57] <LaminatorX> I'm actually hitting one tonight, Janrinok. I've re-written the lyrics to the old song, "Cotton Mill Girls" as "Coffee Shop Girls" and want to see how an audience reacts to it.
[17:52:29] <janrinok> best of luck with that then!
[17:53:06] <LaminatorX> I wanted to keep the theme of labor exploitation, but update it for the service oriented economy of today.
[17:53:40] <CoolHand> janrinok: I submitted that bionic hand story, and I went back into the editor and it said you were working on it.. just wanna make sure you're 2nd editing it and we didnt' overlap..
[17:53:51] <janrinok> you'll be taking over from Pete Seager if you carry on like that, Lammy
[17:54:12] <janrinok> no I was just looking at the spellcheck problem, I closed the window
[17:54:28] <CoolHand> LaminatorX: do u have anything on youtube or anything?
[17:56:08] <janrinok> CH: standby!
[17:56:54] <janrinok> he just pauses for effect... ;)
[18:00:14] <janrinok> CoolHand: you posted that bionic hand story only 55 minutes after the previous one?
[18:01:09] <janrinok> do you want me to leave it there or move when I 2nd ed?
[18:01:28] <LaminatorX> Nothing current The group I play with sets the lyrics from songs in Tolkien to old-time string band music. We're about to open communication with the Tolkien Estate and Harper-Collins WRT licensing the lyrics for proper recordings, so we've been keeping a low profile online.
[18:02:21] <LaminatorX> Here's this though - http://lmsb.me
[18:02:23] <pants--> ^ 03The Lonely Mountain String Band Music, Lyrics, Songs, and Videos ( https://www.reverbnation.com )
[18:02:24] <n1> im going to reject the 'loud sex' story unless there's any objections
[18:02:37] <janrinok> not from me n1
[18:02:49] <n1> and im also open to opinions on why the cdburnerxp/opencandy should not be rejected
[18:03:21] <LaminatorX> Man, if the summery weren't so thin it might've been a good test case for /random only.
[18:03:37] <n1> the summary is not only thin, it's also misleading
[18:03:49] <janrinok> you mean she's not a minger?
[18:04:05] <n1> thats quite subjective, but the picture presented is certainly not flattering
[18:04:20] <CoolHand> janrinok: I did! didn't mean to though! if u r 2nd'ing it, please change.. :)
[18:04:31] <CoolHand> my maths got off somewhere
[18:04:32] <janrinok> I hadn't looked, but will accept your opinion as good enough for me!
[18:04:40] <janrinok> ch k
[18:04:48] <CoolHand> n1, please reject
[18:05:38] <n1> is gone
[18:05:46] <n1> what about the cdburnerxp/opencandy story
[18:06:01] <n1> that seems like a non-story soylvertisement random pointless shit to me
[18:06:10] <n1> but i am half asleep right now, so i could be missing something
[18:06:11] <CoolHand> I'm thinking reject, but I'm having to lookup what opencandy is and why I should care
[18:06:28] <janrinok> n1 - bin it is my view
[18:06:35] <n1> the only sources are from cdburnerxp
[18:06:41] <n1> so the most bias of all sources right there
[18:06:56] <janrinok> if we had feedback, I would ask the sub to rewrite it, but as it stands, bin
[18:06:56] <CoolHand> http://notestoneunturned.blogspot.com
[18:06:57] <pants--> ^ 03Notes tone unturned: How to install CDBurnerXP (and WinSCP) without Open Candy
[18:07:14] <CoolHand> looks like same thing from 12/2012... I don't think enough soylentils would use it to care..??
[18:07:21] <n1> agree
[18:07:25] <n1> it's going to be rejected
[18:07:26] <CoolHand> opencandy seems to be some advertisement thing in software
[18:07:28] <CoolHand> cool
[18:07:37] <n1> "CDBurnerXP is freeware but closed source because it uses some proprietary libraries.[4] The standard CDBurnerXP installer comes bundled with OpenCandy, though a version without this is available, alongside x64 versions, a Windows Installer-based version for corporate deployment and a portable version.[1]"
[18:07:40] <n1> from wikipedia
[18:07:48] <n1> so is not news/story/interesting
[18:07:52] <janrinok> that bionic hand looks cool
[18:08:19] <CoolHand> janrinok: it *does* indeed
[18:08:42] <CoolHand> not quite cool enough to chop mine off to get one though
[18:08:54] <CoolHand> but if I had it off accidentally I'd be all for it :)
[18:09:46] <janrinok> showing just how out-of-touch I am - what are slashboxes? paulej72 has just fixed 'em
[18:10:13] <paulej72> if I get a bionic arm and have it attached to my torso, I can use the bionic hand
[18:10:34] <paulej72> slashboxes are the boxes on the right on the home page
[18:10:50] <janrinok> ah, yes, it comes back to me now, thx paulej72
[18:11:02] <janrinok> .. must be an age thing ...
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[18:20:28] <janrinok> didn't notice you slip away LamX
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[18:22:23] <LaminatorX_> Neither did I until my browser complained. I must have timed out while doing job stuff.
[18:22:39] <janrinok> just like a ninja...
[18:25:17] <LaminatorX_> I get that a lot. Mostly while in my Bunraku puppeteer garb. We have the worst time going out to eat after performances.
[18:25:39] <janrinok> rofl
[18:29:12] <janrinok> handy for when they bring the bill, though
[18:32:48] <LaminatorX_> Fun Fact: The "Ninja Costume" came about from performers prtraying Ninja in Kabuki dressing in the Bunraku puppeteer outfit as a cue to the audience that the other characters could not see their character.
[18:33:28] LaminatorX_ is now known as LaminatorX
[18:52:18] <janrinok> got to go - have a good gig tonight Lammy
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[20:10:51] <takyon> anybody around?
[20:11:06] <n1> almost
[20:11:25] <takyon> should I add more than 5 macros?
[20:12:28] <takyon> it's completely arbitrary, other than the aesthetics of not exceeding the width of a single line/row maybe
[20:12:37] <n1> i think 5 would be enough
[20:14:04] <takyon> oh yeah, the other feature I added was "stripEmail" which removes your auto-filled email from submission page. I have accidentally submitted stories with my anti-spam filtered email, which makes a huge mess as you may have seen
[20:14:11] <takyon> I'll disable it by default
[20:40:38] <takyon> http://soylentnews.org
[20:40:39] <pants--> ^ 03SN comment by [02takyon (881)] (02Score:2)
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[22:12:22] <takyon> "Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned SourceForge"
[22:12:34] <takyon> Is the string "Slashdot Media Owned SourceForge" correct as-is?
[22:22:22] <chromas> Seems like it should be hypenated
[22:22:49] <n1> i didnt like the headline
[22:22:55] <n1> so if there's a better way of putting it, i'm all for it
[22:23:01] <n1> thats the headline as is from TFA
[22:23:47] <chromas> Use "Dice" so we can rage harder :)
[22:24:35] <n1> im down with that :p
[22:32:14] <takyon> it's the truth innit
[22:32:27] <takyon> submitted truth about intel acquiring altera
[22:32:31] <takyon> I mean breaking news
[22:36:06] <n1> is not time sensitive though right?
[22:40:25] <takyon> i guess not
[22:41:12] <n1> just means it wont jump the queue
[22:41:28] <n1> im not going to rush to give intel more publicity
[22:41:34] <n1> they get quite enough as it is